Lots of low hanging fruit in this arena for people who haven't made a serious effort yet. Cutting out caffeine and alcohol entirely from my diet were by far the biggest improvements I made, then regular exercise, and finally a midday nap during my lunch break.

Yeah, I sleep way better if I go to bed totally sober. Generally caffeine seems to be ok if I stop after 3pm or so.

Yep, as I get into my 30s I notice alcohol consumption drastically affects my sleep quality and time to fall asleep.

I've also cut out coffee and that has helped my sinuses/upper throat a lot in the morning which were being irritated. I drink some varieties of tea instead.

That's a good list (though I personally find it impossible to nap during the day). I'd add one thing: reduce stress.

I‘m intrigued by the midday nap, because I think I remember reading that daytime naps worsen night sleep. I do like naps though, and find them refreshing. Have you found research that supports this?

The primary benefit from mid-day naps is that they simply help you relax and get some rest. You don't want them to be long, just refreshing. This is well known in athletics where most major athletes take naps as a matter of recovery and to improve their sleep quality. Presumably, feeling relaxed and rested when you go to sleep helps you get some deeper sleep and improve sleep quality.

Naps are terrible sleep hygiene. Any deviation from a regular set sleep schedule is bad hygiene. Better to get less sleep than to nap and disturb the sleep schedule. Many people develop insomnia this way, especially shift workers.

It’s almost like we are not some robots with scheduled downtimes - physiology is much more complicated than to have such a mathematical truths. The only true thing we can conclude is always: this factor might correspond to this effect (and sometimes may even say that it is not only correlation)

The siesta is natural and is different from the naps taken from shift workers that are likely either interrupting night time sleep or are shifting their circadian rythm so that their "biological night" is in the day. Same thing for the "biological day" (it will be put at night) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siesta?wprov=sfla1

AFAIR was only the case if nap was longer than ~20 min? I don't remember if this was a consistent thing, I doubt it though as this stuff is inherently individual. Experimentation is the only way with sleep optimization..

It does not worsen night sleep, this is a misconception. It is better than nothing but often not as good as regular sleep since you often does not goes through a full cycle.

I recommend to read https://supermemo.guru/wiki/Best_time_for_napping The key takeaways is that naps won't affect night time sleep much if it's timed well. I also don't recommend stopping them artificially (I've heard the "keep them short" advice a lot), naps are usually short if you aren't sleep deprived and time it well.

Similar for me.

I'll add that I take a small magnesium supplement mid to late afternoon as well which helps me relax and if dreams are any indication of deeper sleep I have many more memorable dreams when I'm taking magnesium.

Dreams are an indication of REM sleep, but improvement in REM may be a general indication that you're getting overall better sleep, including deep sleep.

I 100% shill for magnesium when I can, and sleep is a huge reason in my experience. I was recommended it by others for sleep, and I have got a lot of people started. Within a few days our sleep is just so much better, including deeper dreams. I do 100mg lysinate glycinate. My brand's bottle recommends two per serving, but one has worked great. I take it right before bed and have never looked back.

What form of magnesium?

Magnesium glycinate is typically recommended, but any form that doesn't upset your stomach is probably good.

Magnesium L-Threonate (a.k.a. magtein) supposedly crosses the blood-brain barrier better than any other form of magnesium.

I've read that Magnesium L-Threonate is better taken in the morning to help your brain function better during the day. So, I take this in the morning and Mg glycinate at night.

I currently use magnesium oxide in a tablet form (I use half a tablet, ~125mg). I have previously used magnesium glycinate but I don't remember what dose I used of that.

I'll add, the mag oxide always prevents leg cramps when I take a full tablet (250mg) when I am working outside all day (and staying hydrated).

ETA: In my experience magnesium citrate is the one mostly likely to cause diarrhea though they all can.

I use a powdered drink called 'Calm'. It's got a bit of a berry flavor to it. Start with a small amount though or you'll be shitting your pants. There are a lot of studies showing magnesium levels are far too low in people anyway so it's a good idea to supplement it.

I also take Magnesium and swear by it. I also suspect I have some underlying kidney issues retaining many electrolytes and started taking a potassium with the magnesium at bedtime and it has transformed my sleep into baby-land. I sleep so hard now and when I wake up, I have no problem getting right back to sleep. I feel so refreshed the next day it is honestly shocking to me. I have always said that before I started taking both that I felt like I was on a one-way track to dementia. That is just how I felt. Very anecdotal, but I believe it in my bones.

How much of each are you taking? Are you taking any blood pressure medications?

No blood pressure meds.

I take about 150MG of magnesium and 100mg of potassium before bed. The magnesium is Chloride, but in liquid form and causes no laxative effect (but tastes terrible!). It is a product called ReMag. I am sure other forms will work just as well. The potassium is Gluconate as it is PH neutral. Potassium Citrate and Chloride would work just as well. I just get the Gluconate from Walmart as it is cheap and effective.

Magnesium makes it worse for me because you have to pee out a bunch of minerals.

Its not so straightforward. Caffeine consumption has been shown to reduce the chance of dementia.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7836063/

1. Can't be sure that the effect of caffeine is more worth it than the possible impact on sleep. Better sleep probably has a wider range of benefits compared to caffeine.

2. Might not have to be one or the other - just make sure caffeine consumption is very early in the day

The title of the study is Associations Between Caffeine Consumption, Cognitive Decline, and Dementia and the conclusions state:

    This review suggests that caffeine consumption [...] may reduce the risk of dementia 

So the title talks about an association and the conclusion talks about causation.

I think I have an idea of how they measure an association, but how do they determine if there's any causation?

All these studies seem like cope.

You drink coffee because it makes you do more things at work / you are a slob without it because of addiction. You are not drinking it because it might make you better in bed or have less dementia in 50 years.

On the other hand we all need to sleep so doing it properly is a net positive

Caffeine is really not unhealthy. It's one of the most studied supplements ever. If you drink one cup of coffee before noon you will be perfectly fine.

>if you drink one cup

If you only shoot heroin once a week you will be perfectly fine

How many people resist the urge and only shoot heroin once a week?

We are humans, not perfectly diligent robots.

The first thing you say to a person with eating disorders is to throw all the junk food from their home. It’s close to impossible to resist even the “simple” temptation of food.

It’s much easier for a person to never start drinking coffee in the morning to “wake up” than starting and then quitting

Caffeine is not heroin. Caffeine has proven benefits.

Given your entire comment is one massive strawman argument I will ignore the rest of it.

> Caffeine is not heroin. Caffeine has proven benefits.

Heroin has proven benefits, this is why they give it to you at the hospital.

Given your entire comment is a massive lie I will ignore the rest of your replies

Ah yes, heroin and caffeine are equivalent, that's why we see all those caffeine addicts lining the streets of San Francisco looking for their next fix.

If you want to have an honest discussion, stop using these terrible analogies and bring actual scientific evidence.

This mentality of finding these shallow similarities and drawing these insane conclusions indicates that someone has very low intelligence.

This is your "deep" thought process

1. Caffeine is a drug

2. Heroin is also a drug

3. Caffeine can have negative effects on people when used in excess

4. Heroin can also have negative effects on people when used in excess!

ergo, caffeine is as bad as heroin

> ergo, caffeine is as bad as heroin

Never said this.

Perhaps if you didn’t “ignore” the rest of my comment you would have understood the point :)

There's a Starbucks in town whose unfortunate positioning has led to a great increase in wrecks (it's just past a hill, on a fairly busy road with speed limit of 40mph, and it doesn't have enough space for a large drive thru so cars are backed into the road).

Actually, I have to side with the original commenter on this. A great deal of today's public health issues in the first world stem directly or indirectly from people being unable to properly moderate use of a good thing. That's why I switched to decaf - I'd have to drink 10 times the amount of coffee I normally do to get an equivalent dose.

Decaf has its own issues. Read up on the residues left in coffee after it’s been through the decaf process.

I just turn off coffee machine at noon and that is it. How hard can it be for you?

>How hard can it be for you?

maybe ask the 100 years of scientific publications about human behavior and addiction?

There are different intensities of addiction. Heroin addiction is not comparable to caffeine. And we each respond differently to addictive substances.

You are constructing very weird strawman here. Me and a lot of my friends have beer in the fridge or some stronger spirit on the shelf and yet they don't get drunk first thing in the morning before work. Similarly I don't observe them gulping liters of coffee at 10 pm. There are always people who have harder time moderating their addictions, but absolute majority seem to be able to control their caffeine consumption just fine.

> absolute majority seem to be able to control their caffeine consumption just fine.

According to whom? Data says otherwise

https://www.statista.com/chart/19524/cups-of-coffee-drunk-by...

"One cup" of coffee doesn't mean anything by itself since the effects depend on both genetics and tolerance. Do you have data that confirms that majority of adults either consume so much coffee that it causes unwanted side effects (sleep problems) or that they want to reduce their consumption and struggling to do so due to the dependency?

I usually consume two double espressos per day (both before noon) and don't have trouble falling asleep afterwards.

It's like website blockers for productivity: eventually you realize you can just undo the work you did and go back to business as usual, especially if there's an excuse ("I need this youtube video on software architecture for my research, so I'll just unblock youtube and...")

It's not 0 or 1 is it? E.g. a "short espresso" in the early morning hours at least from my sleep tracking / particular (heavy) physiology doesn't make a difference vs when I'm off of caffeine (on weekends usually).

Your link literally says: “ Epidemiologic studies have provided inconclusive evidence for a protective effect of caffeine consumption on risk of dementia and cognitive decline.”

That doesn’t sound very convincing.

Context is key. You've just cited the concept under challenge. The summary and conclusion literally says it "may reduce the risk of dementia and cognitive decline, and may ameliorate cognitive decline in cognitively impaired individuals."

Without reading this paper but having read a bunch of this research in the past, it’s definitely inconclusive due to poor quality data. The people who don’t consume caffeine category too often includes those with major health issues that prevent them from doing so.

I have always had insomnia and have to maintain very good sleep hygiene. Here's a few things I have found that help me get to sleep:

- No exercise after 18:30/6:30pm

- Absolutely avoid Vitamin D and Vitamin B supplements in the evening. These will suppress deep and REM sleep and I'll sleep lightly all night long if I take them.

- Hot sauna, shower, or bath before bed.

- Anti-histamine (cetirizine hydrochloride aka Zyrtec) as needed - I'm allergic to my wife's dog and some nights I feel like I have bugs crawling on my skin. It can even wake me up.

Things that keep me from waking up at night:

- Gas X as needed to avoid acid reflux

- Anti Inflammatory helps keep me from having to use the bathroom when I know I'm inflamed (getting old sucks).

- No alcohol in the evening

- No videogames, interesting books, or French lessons right before bed, or I'll be sleeping lightly and find myself ruminating in light sleep over these mentally engaging topics.

Would you mind sharing what you take for the anti-inflammatory? Do you take it daily?

I take Ibuprofen, and only when I can tell there is a problem (like when I've been up several times on preceding nights). It also seems correlated with junk food and alcohol. I generally have a very clean diet, and if I slip, I generally feel like I have inflammation a few days later which keeps me up at night when I wake up needing to go.

No alcohol or weed in the evening is critical for me. Either after about 5pm completely ruins my sleep.

I on the other hand can't get to sleep without weed, and that's my sole purpose for consuming it.

Sounds like a stress/relaxation issue.

Have you also tried no calories after 5 PM? That has given me the deepest sleep with vivid dreams.

Something that helps me is to do something physically exhausting during the day. Probably not right before bedtime though. For me it's weightlifting, that's the only exercise I've been able to stick with. If that's not your thing, try to find something else that elevates your heart rate/makes you sweat for 30 minutes or so, that might help you sleep better. Even some deep stretching/yoga can get your muscles firing and get your heart rate up.

You might also try no screens/TV/computers after dark. Keep interior lights at low levels and a warm color temperature after dark. Be intentional about doing calming, quiet things before bedtime.

When do you usually go to bed?

Conventional wisdom says do not eat within 3 hours of sleep. If you go to bed at 10:00, nothing after 7:00.

I thought vivid dreaming was an indicator of sleep interruption, not quality sleep. IIRC dreaming happens during our deepest sleep when you would not normally be easily woken up. Remembering your dreams mean you woke during that time.

I thought that too, but what seems to happen is that I wake up remembering a very long dream rather than just a jumble of dream snippets from the night.

Just make sure your anti-histamine is not in this list of drugs to avoid.

https://youtu.be/16n80OQCVSM?si=_Ve2HH4U2N-ATTnj

I think that's why they specified zyrtec which is a second generation (not anticholinergic) antihistamine

Most off-the-shelf antihistamines are now non-drowsy.

I asked the pharmacist for a drowsy antihistamine the other day and they gave me something from behind the counter (no script required). No idea if it was anticholinergic: most drugs require compromises so if something works better for sleep for me I'll judge the risks for other side-effects.

Normally I use a loratidine if I wake in the early hours and that usually gets me back to sleep, even though it is non-drowsy.

I wanted to try a different antihistamine to see if it worked better: jury's out on that at the moment.

Personally I think it is very important to experiment on yourself, and test a variety of solutions. I will even test alternative medicine for important problems. I strongly avoid dangerous solutions. I am fairly conservative and I especially dislike taking pills, but I believe in the value of trying a bit of science on your problems.

The antihistamines that make you drowsy are first generation antihistamines like benadryl that research has suggested are very bad to take more than occasionally (linked to dementia risk, etc.)

If you need something for sleep I highly suggest you either try melatonin if you want something OTC or talk to your doctor for something that requires a prescription.

Aside from melatonin, pretty much every OTC sleeping drug you can get is an anticholinergic drug which is better to avoid.

Cheers.

Yes Promethazine (the anti-histamine I'm using) is a moderate anticholinergic.

AFAIK Melatonin needs a doctor's prescription in New Zealand.

I will balance the risks as best I can (lack of sleep is also very unhealthy!!), and keep scientifically trying softer alternatives.

Funny how you say avoid Vit D, yet another poster swears taking Vit D before bed solved their issue.

Suggests there's other variables involved, like time of day taken, other supplements taken simultaneously, metabolic processes, diet, and maybe even the placebo effect.

If you pubmed vitamin d and sleep you find that in general vitamin d makes sleep quality worse. (I'm sure there are exceptions)

I have a wealth of experiential data on this, validated as recently as this previous July over a two week period. Like clockwork, if I take my Vit D supplement in the evening (like before bed), I will have almost zero REM sleep and will wake up from 8 hours of sleep exhausted. I have no idea why this happens but it's very repeatable.

>having to use the bathroom when I know I'm inflamed

What does this sentence mean?

If i had to take a guess i think this person might be referring to an enlarged/inflamed prostate.

Oh! Ok, I get it now.

I thought he was feeling any kind of inflammation in his body.

Parent is correct. It might or might not be prostate, or my intestines putting pressure on my bladder.

What really kills me is acid reflux. If I get it at night I just have to wake up and sit down or stand up until it passes... fortunately it happens rarely enough and I kind of know what will trigger it, but it still sucks.

Are you eating within 3 hours of sleep?

Alka-Seltzer always knocks reflux down for me pretty quick. Still get woken up by the reflux and have to haul myself out of bed to get the goods, but a few sips and I can get right back in bed.

Oh interesting, I see that it's made with bicabornate sodium. Just bought some! And some tums as well. Let's see if any of these work :D thanks!

Try OTC reflux medicine like Prilosec (Omeprazole). Works way better than Tums for reflux in my experience.

I have some from Costco and IIUC you need to take it in the morning or something for 2 weeks? Never seemed to do much to me though, especially when I really need it.

Don't eat near bedtime, and you might want to consider tilting your bed a few degrees.

FWIW and for others reading this. If you experience reflux regularly, go get checked. I had an undiagnosed H Pilory infection for years (can lead to cancer). 2 weeks of antibiotics fixed it.

Interestingly I had this issue and got better for a while. Maybe I should get checked again.

For me it's really an intestinal gas issue that's forcing my stomach to compress, such that when I lay down, the acid makes way to my esophagus.

Curious how gas x helps with acid reflux. My understanding is that it's for bloating more than reflux. Do you find it works better than antacids?

It helps reduce bloating. If you have bloating + weak esophageal sphincter (or just really bad bloating) you can get reflux as a result.

Actually, more accurately, gas-x has an enzyme that helps break down oligosaccharides. The mechanism may be more complex than above if your acid reflux is somehow related to microbiome stuff (oligos are favorite food for all kinds of gut bacteria).

Thanks, never knew that!

Indeed, when I have intestinal gas, it pushes my stomach 'up' and exposes my esophagus to the acid.

What anti-inflammatory do you recommend? Ibuprofen works great for me but it's not something I want to use regularly. Turmeric/curcumin?

I just use Ibuprofen when I know there's an issue. It's not ideal, but it works.

> - Anti-histamine (cetirizine hydrochloride aka Zyrtec) as needed - I'm allergic to my wife's dog and some nights I feel like I have bugs crawling on my skin. It can even wake me up.

Antihistamines are associated with increased dementia if you take the wrong ones, so it's not a good way to get more sleep. Melatonin, trazodone or a newer sleep drug is safer.

that seems to be associated with benadryl:

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/common-anticholinergic-d...

which is sometimes used for it's drowsy effect. cetirizine/loratidine are non-drowsy and I don't see any association known with dementia

Yeah, Benadryl is a weird drug. Look at its interactions with various receptor sites in humans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diphenhydramine#Pharmacology

Benadryl does nothing to me except kill my deep and REM sleep and leave me "sleeping" but conscious. I'm exhausted the next day. I only take cetrizine.

agreed, any drowsy things seem to turn off weird parts of my brain but im left feeling like an awake zombie

> I'll be sleeping lightly and find myself ruminating in light sleep over these mentally engaging topics.

Huh, interesting. I find that I sometimes force myself to think on mentally engaging topics as it helps quiet the other, more negative things I might instead be ruminating on. It's counting sheep for me, really.

Im jealous of anyone who can sleep well. I have been doing all of the above for years as well as testing out different temperatures and also not looking at screens for well over an hour before going to bed.

I just can’t get good consistent deep sleep. I will say one thing that did help was i use to live in the city and after i moved outside of it and it was much much quieter at night (no trucks driving through or random sounds or honking in the middle of the night) i did notice an improvement.

Urban sounds are a big problem for me as well, but you may want to try a white noise generator (phone app or even a small low-power fan) to hide some of those noises.

The fan for me doubles as a way of getting air circulation. I keep windows open in other rooms, but not the bedroom - due to street noises. Having a CO2 monitor may give you some insights into another key factor impacting your sleep quality.

Start taking GlyNAC and see how you feel after a week or two. It's crazy nobody is recommending it but me here.

I might want to try! Do you have a particular product / brand you use that’s convenient to buy? I saw another comment of your mentioning then separated, is that how you take it?

Yes, I'm taking Glycine in powder (it's very cheap) from Vitality (UltraPure Glycine) and NAC from Chrisana - but I'm based in Switzerland. You should be able to find it anywhere, I'd think any brand would do just like any brand of vitamine C is likely ok.

NAC can have a number of surprising side effects for some, including anhedonia. Just be aware of the possibility before beginning to supplement it.

The biggest improvement for me by far was a CPAP.

CPAP nade a profound difference for me. Cognitively and physically.

Same! If you have poor sleep, it couldn’t hurt to see a sleep doc.

Could you elaborate? Are you talking about this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_positive_airway_pre...

Not OP but given the context, yeah. CPAP machines help you breathe better and not wake up hundreds of times due to respiratory blockage. It’s almost a necessity for fat or muscular people to sleep really well.

I'm 145 lbs and use a CPAP because my nasal turbinates majorly swell up during the night or when I lay down. I'm urging my insurance company to cover the ClariFix procedure to hopefully fix my issue.

yes, it helps with sleep apnea that many older people eventually develop. You can sleep apnea it even if you don't snore.

getting a cpap can be a life changer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_apnea

I agree, it's hard but worth it. I have the data to back it up through sleep tracking. I've always felt somewhat unfazed by coffee, yet caffeine flashbacks can be very subtle and do seem to have a measurable impact on this "user" at least.

Also really darkening the bedroom and keeping the temperature as low as possible.

Now if there only were a consistent solution for energetic "night owl" toddlers to go with that ever more optimized regimen :D

Just seconding many of the suggestions so far...

- no alcohol after dinner (none at all is better) - eat dinner as early as possible (before 7pm, even earlier is better) - turn off screens after 9pm (Kindle doesn't seem to impact, but phone/tablet/TV do) - exercise regularly, but not too close to bedtime - regular bed time and wake time (we go to bedroom 9:30-10, lights out 10:30, alarm at 6am).

Meditation and breathing exercise can help too, but I haven't had to try those much.

>Cutting out caffeine and alcohol entirely from my diet were by far the biggest improvements I made

Are you sure the latter improved deep sleep? Alcohol is known to interfere with REM sleep, but I've actually found it lengthens the amount of time I spend in deep sleep if I have a single beer or something at dinner. I tracked this over months with a sleep tracker.

I sleep too deeply. 1oz of liquor immediately before sleep makes me able to comprehend alarms in the morning.

That sounds like the opposite of sleeping too deeply to me. That sounds like you aren't getting enough.

Do yourself a favor. Take off the nightcap, put on the striped pajamas and the old-timey candle holder, and book out a full 10 hours for a few weeks. Make it non-negotiable. Full darkness, clean air, quiet, the works. Maybe even get tested for sleep apnea if you're overweight.

If you go through that for 3 weeks religiously and return to the nightcap I'll eat my words and consider you a medical anomaly. But I think you'll come out of it convinced it's worth the sacrifice.

Been there, I just sleep a full 10 hours and can't fall asleep the next night. I sleep 7 hours, that's the right amount for me. If I don't feel like drinking, I'll eat something heavy to lighten my sleep quality. I obsessively track my sleep, and this is all I've found so far. The other option is polyphasic, but that's limited in terms of practicality.

Sleep, like digestion, wound healing, or respiration, seems to be one of those complex bodily processes that can suffer from dysfunction for a variety of reasons we're only now beginning to understand rigorously. A quality polysomnography is a good place to start.

and to top it off, issues with digestion or respiration will impact your sleep negatively

One thing I’ve found that really helps is actually not worrying too much about sleep. Try to follow good basic habits, but you can become neurotic trying to follow every suggestion that people make or thinking that a few nights of horrible sleep is going to damage you for life. If I get a few nights of poor sleep nowadays I try to just shrug it off.

I have a feeling that the more "advanced" tips seen in this thread are more (personal) solutions/improvements for the situation of "I am stressed and so I cannot sleep well". I.e. to make a non-optimal situation a little better.

Which is fine, but in general I'd think having the luxury of being in a calm, comfortable and unworried state of mind is the most beneficial.

I remember reading in Why we Sleep[1] about devices that you could wear which would increase the intensity of deep sleep brain waves, thereby causing deeper sleep. Not sure how legit this is seen these days or how close such devices are to becoming available to regular consumers, but was interesting to read about.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_We_Sleep

Personal anecdote, but I sleep with earplugs most of the nights as I have a very light sleep. I would wake from really small noises multiple times every night. In contrast, sleeping with earplugs feels like entering a dark and quiet chamber and then suddenly emerging after 7-8 hours of uninterrupted sleep. YMMV, but for me it's a godsend.

Similar for me, I use a blindfold and white noise to create a sleep cocoon with no distractions

Same, highly recommend the manta sleep mask for any back sleepers

I just repeat mantras until all the sheep are counted, works like a charm

I have the same problem but I've yet to find earplugs that I can wear every night. The only only ones I've been able to sleep with at all are silicone ones that mould to the shape of the ear. I can only sleep which makes things significantly more difficult but with some practice I can get the silicone ones flat and not feeling like there's pressure inside my ear which will stop me sleeping.

I don't travel without these now and they have been great, but after several successive nights of use I find my ear starts to get sore and sensitive to them.

The best thing, of course, is to live somewhere actually quiet. Most noise is from cars. But failing that I have to sleep with some white noise source like a fan.

I use these earplugs every night and whenever I'm exposed to noise, like vacuuming. For me, it helps me sleep better and also seems to reduce tinnitus. Note: I'm not saying wearing earplugs directly reduces tinnitus, but IMO it reduces ear stimulation because my ears are processing less sound, so my ears don't get as tired, and that seems to make my tinnitus less noticeable.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0051U7W32

I re-use the same set, washing them when I take a shower. I bought the above set of 50 years ago and still have many left.

A couple of tricks I use with these:

- I cut about 1/4" off the small end. If I don't, the earplug starts to hurt my ear if I wear it a lot, I think because it goes too far into my ear.

- before using a new earplug, I wash it several times with bar soap. There is something in a new ear plug that makes it stay mashed. Maybe it suppresses more noise with that, but it also makes it hard to fit for me. I keep washing it until it is springy. This is a one-time thing with a new ear plug.

The "stay mashed" property is by design for these types of earplugs because they are meant to go right into the ear canal. The idea is you mash them (well, carefully roll and compress) then insert them while still mashed, holding them in as they slowly re-expand.

But this is, of course, to ensure protection in the case of dangerously high sound pressure levels. Cutting them would also compromise them in this regard. Perhaps different if you are using them to block out low noises for sleep.

Whenever I use these, I have to wake up in the middle of the night because my ear canals are all wet inside. Does this not happen to you?

Yes, but I think to a lesser extent. I have not felt uncomfortable in the night due to this, but my ears definitely feel more moist in the morning which probably contributes to the soreness/sensitivity over time for me.

Hard for me to get good sleep with earplugs:

1. They're noticeably "there" in my ears, or even mildly uncomfortable 2. I'm nervous about missing important sounds (family telephone emergencies, emergency door knocks, etc)

Regarding some of the comments: Yes, I had trouble sleeping with earplugs initially myself. It's definitely something you have to get used to, but once you do you don't notice them at all. Then it feels like having acquired a new super-power. I use Bilsom 303 type of disposable plugs, the type you'd find on a worksite, although I only change them after a few weeks of use.

The Bose sleepbuds were helpful for me in masking snoring sounds. I found conventional earbuds too uncomfortable the way they seal, while these make up for the lack of perfect seal with white noise. Looks like the product has been recently spun out to a new company.

https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/22/23837206/ozlo-sleepbuds-b...

This works very well for me. I have tried just about every type but most were not comfortable. Finally found 3M ear classic NRR 33 earplugs and have bought them 200 pairs at a time. Super comfortable and effective.

used to buy these but not in stock:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008MCTXJC

so now I got these:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008MCTOPU

I still struggle to get really good sleep. I've slept with ear plugs (nearly) every night for the last 30 years. Now there is almost zero chance I can get any sleep without them, even in very quiet environments. Also just checked my CYP1A2 marker and have the A/A variant so I'm a "ultrarapid" caffeine metabolizer and I only drink 1 cup of caf-coffee in the mornings, so this is probably not a big contributor to low quality sleep. Maybe Alcohol (straight whiskey only), but maybe not. When I go through periods of not drinking I see no apparent improvement in my sleep. Still looking...

I think the other key question is causality - do people who get less deep sleep develop these diseases, or do people who are developing these diseases get less deep sleep, or both?

I wonder if they could design an interventional study in which people who are predisposed to dementia are given more sleep or melatonin, and then demonstrate whether it protects against the disease.

I mean one of the common correlations between dementia and 'something else' is stress, people who are stressed get dementia more often. I guess people who are not getting enough deep sleep are also stressed.

The study does not prove causality: it is right in the title of the paper: Association Between Slow-Wave Sleep Loss and Incident Dementia.

Sorry for the rant: we should not share university press release articles, they are always clickbait. Just share the research directly.

dang I smiled when I read this comment

You're right about the journal paper, but the pop-sci title implies causation. So, for those who didn't click all the way through: There is zero proof of causation. It may well be that people getting dementia have increased problems sleeping. Or both may be caused by some third factor.

no alcohol, no coffee after 12:00, try to eat less(caloric food) at dinner & try to eat no closer than 3h before your sleep, make sure the room you sleep in is fully dark, make sure you have comfortable temperature (if you are rich, you may as well get that ultrafancy mattress that regulates the temperature), make sure pillow is comfy, not too hard&not too soft

I do not have an answer for you, but I have a very low level of trust in the deep sleep numbers, as they are based on heart rate and not brain waves.

FWIW, my Apple Watch's reports of deep sleep line up with my Zeo (EEG)'s numbers from awhile ago.

This guy over here https://youtu.be/BQMIAkt4P48?si=XQY6jLLKFpS4wkzv is always testing fitness / sleep devices and he compares to better machines that are known to more precise. The latest Apple Watches do pretty well overall.

My deep sleep has massively improved recently and consistently for the last month. Two things I've done differently (and I'm not sure which is to thank) is taking magnesium before bed each night and inhaling fluticasone. No more snoring, no more waking up tired.

Whats the sleep tracker you use? I've been looking at a few, not sure which ones are really accurate.

Try brown noise

It's Brownian noise, to be precise.

This probably doesn't help you directly, but I suspect the older people mentioned in the article may often have some sleep apnea, preventing them from reaching deep sleep. I just started using a CPAP machine, which has greatly improved it for me. Making sure it is always treated could help society wide.

I've always had trouble falling asleep properly.

I got helped by the usual suspects like avoiding caffeine after 14-15, earplugs, thick curtains and light cover over the eyes as well as cool temperatures in the sleeping room, but the big improvement came after I stopped eating after 20 in the night, and preferably earlier than that.

According to this researched I heard an interview with about 15-20% of the population has some level of intolerance for histamines. Having high histamine levels affect sleep.

I find it interesting that it is never addressed in these common list of what to try to improve sleep. It's not rocket science managing it, just a matter of avoiding high histamine food after 5pm or so. Good sleep might be worth it.

How does the sensor track "deep sleep" reliably?

If your sleep tracker is one of these consumer devices that you put on your wrist, they are notoriously unreliable (here is a study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7603649/ ). Worse, they have been shown to cause unnecessary stress by causing people who are actually perfectly fine to chase numbers.

As for how to improve sleep, there are plenty of advise, many of them commonsense (see in this thread). But I think that unless you are actually followed by a healthcare professional, in which case he would probably give better advise than random people on HN, how well you feel the next day is probably a better metric than some number on a smartwatch. And if the answer is "fine", I don't think there is a reason to worry much.

Somewhat ironically, the sleep apnea screening device I was sent is also meant to be worn on the wrist. There were three additional sensors connected to it. One for monitor chest movements for breathing, one for monitoring breath itself, and another for blood oxygen level.

q10 coenzyme before bed turns me into a log for the whole night

That’s what I don’t get and would love someone to post full text of the study. They claim this is a “modifiable” risk. I find that claim dubious and would love to see how they support that, and why this isn’t simply descriptive/correlational.

try nasal dilators. they can be a little uncomfortable to start and some brands like to fall out mid sleep (or I subconsciously take it out and drop it in the bed), but I can attest that I sleep much deeper when I use one, or atleast the increase in quality and quantity of dreams make me think I do. also I wake up in the morning in the same position I fell asleep in and not feeling tired more often, where I usually am sleep flopping all over the place according to my other half

I've had good luck with nasal strips (like Breathe Right) along with an anti-snoring mouth appliance. I got one from my dentist that worked OK but it cost $1K and broke after a year. I've had good luck with the non-prescription SnoreRx mouth appliance; not so great with ZQuiet which I found hurt my front teeth.

Exercise HARD. Try doing some Zone 2 cardio for +1 hours, and see if this makes a difference. Or try some HIIT workout (Zone 5) and see how your body responds. A good overall workout machine is a rower. Try to set some kind of PR, like a 2k time trial. Push beyond what you think is possible and see how your body responds. My best sleeps are when I am physically exhausted - so weak that I could fall asleep on a couch (which is normally impossible for me).

I have some mixed feelings about this. I used to do this ~10 years ago when I was a distance runner, but now exercising so hard will throw my body off in other ways and I don't feel good having pushed so hard. Perhaps this is exactly the point you're making, but I don't target zone 5 for long these days. Deep sleep, sure, but at what cost to the rest of my body?

All exercise causes fatigue and fatigue management is not really discussed but it's actually not that difficult. Most of your cardio should be done in zone 2 (look up the 80/20 rule). You also may need to start with easier workouts and work your way back up to what you expect you can do. I was also a former endurance athlete and in college I stopped exercising. Numerous times I kept on trying to get back into it and I didn't succeed at getting back into it until I realized that I needed to start from square 1.

I'm not fully back into it yet mind you, but I'm running 20 miles a week and lifting weights 6 days a week. A lot of my workouts are zone 2. I sleep at least 8 hours and I get roughly 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight from my diet (i also make sure all my other macro and micro nutrient needs are met).

The excessive fatigue goes away if you are meeting your nutrient and sleep requirements and not consuming drugs or alcohol. Look up the "repeated bout effect". I feel like a teenager again after getting my exercise, nutrition, and sleep routine locked in.

edit: To clarify what I mean about "the excessive fatigue goes away", when I first started running there would be mornings where I would wake up and have significant mental and physical fatigue and the very thought of going to exercise was repulsive to me. That goes away with time, it's also a signal to maybe take it easy for the day and do zone 2 cardio instead.

For sure, there is some kind of optimal balance to target. I've pushed myself so hard at times that I disrupted my sleep. For example, I bought a used Kickr and decided to do a FTP test at 9pm. This was not the smartest idea.

Running has been the goto for me. Can push myself on a 5k run in the evening (6pm) and when 10pm hits, I'm 2x more tired than normal.

And, depending on your situation, be careful. I was a collegiate athlete back in the day and recently tried to recapture some of that. The result? Torn labrum in my left hip that really can't be repaired (per doctor). I'm all for hard workouts, but respect your age (and prior injuries) if you're going to go down this path. Definitely ease your way into it.

To be a bit more careful in line with the other commenters’ worries, do not ever raise your heart rate above `200-age`, that’s a rough estimate.

What's the consensus about exercising when sick? Are you supposed to get bed rest, or will the exercise help you?

If you are sick, you should reduce exercise to a minimum and let your body heal.

The study is about duration of deep sleep, not quality. And that's an easy one, you can increase the amount of deep sleep with cannabis.

> Cannabis users demonstrated significantly longer sleep latency and less REM sleep overall; no other differences occurred in objective sleep measures between groups.

https://bmjopenrespres.bmj.com/content/6/Suppl_1/A23.1

Your link does not support your statement, which may not be the case. Even your quoted bit suggests that cannabis just caused less REM sleep that was replaced by taking longer to get to sleep. I couldn't find a particularly good citataion but some say that THC doesn't affect deep sleep (N3) while CBD actually reduces it. All say that the situation is unclear and needs more research.

Try no calories after 5PM. This gives me the deepest sleep and very vivid dreams.

Try a Valerian root extract supplement about an hour before your bedtime. It's extraordinary effective for me.

https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/valerian

It should be noted that Valerian works on the brains GABA system in a very similar manner to alcohol or benzodiazapines (valium, xanax, etc). This is why it is effective, but also why it should only be used short term.

I take Magnesium an hour or so before bed and boy does my Mi Band smartwatch show a difference in deep sleep those days.

Is it "real" improved deep sleep? No idea.

I do blood tests for Magnesium (and D3, B12, etc) every so often to make sure I'm not poisoning myself.

What kills sleep for me is any feeling of unfinished business. If I feel like there's a thing I need to do, good luck sleeping unless I'm completely exhausted. So I think mental health is really important, learning to have your mind at peace. Or rather, learning, one by one, how to deal with the 1000 things disturb you individually until there's not many left to keep you up

There was a device called the Dreem headband that would use EEG and specially timed tones to increase the duration of deep sleep (look up "sleep spindles"). Unfortunately that specific feature was blocked in the US and they took it off the market. But I hope that something like that will be launched again.

I went through a series of traumatic events before a deployment and I stopped sleeping. I started experiencing psychosomatic events where I'd see and feel bugs crawling on me. When I saw the Wizard™ he had me start doing breathing exercises right before bed, clearing my brain, and centering myself in a space with no distractions. For me that was a endless white room. It worked and I continue to do it today when I have stressful days and I generally sleep on a consistent schedule and wake up (nearly) on the hour of when I need to wake up. From my sleep tracker I get roughly 1.5-2 hours of REM each night and roughly 6-7 hours of "sleep".

Interesting. Did you learn anything else that helped you?

Since then? Probably better managing stress and emotional events. Setting aside time to think about and feel my stress, grief, or anxiety and allowing myself to defer those things to an appropriate time has helped me a lot. Learning to bend with life a bit more than being fed up with its twists and turns has also helped. I say that in the light that in a lot of twists and turns I've figured out how to make the best of things.

I have improved my deep sleep by taking lavender oil extract capsules. They help relax and give me a 'knock-out' feeling that rapidly induces sleep. I also don't wake up in the middle of the night anymore when I take them. Unfortunately the quality of the extract varies wildly, I would get the same effect with 80mg as I would with 400mg from another supplier. Doubly unfortunate is that one rapidly builds tolerance to it. I use it every 3rd day, so I get a deep, restful sleep twice a week.

Quite a few sleep supplements have started adding it to their formulas recently, using melatonin to initiate sleep and lavender oil to sustain it. It remains to be seen what side effects it has taken long term - there aren't any studies about this available as far as I could tell.

Just a note that lavender oil is estrogenic and topical use has been associated with precocious puberty or gynocomastia in children. Small doses in adults may not be a huge issue, but I would not use it as a sleep aid for kids.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/lavender-tea-t...

We're doing neurostimulation to increase the effectiveness at deep sleep, and have spoken with the research team at Monash (where the study took place) which is looking to use our tech in some of their future studies.

There is a large body of research supporting this, a selection of which you can find on our website at https://soundmind.co

We don't alter the amount of time you sleep, we increase the synchronous firing of neurons, which is the hallmark of deep sleep.

I've been stuck on <30 minutes of deep sleep for as long as I've had an Apple watch and probably much longer. Some observations I recently made:

- Japan has these drinks with 200mg of GABA, I don't know if it was the 20,000 steps we were doing every day or the drinks but on the days I had it deep sleep was often (not always) closer to an hour. Strangely enough GABA is illegal here in NZ so I'm trying L-Theanine with less obvious effects.

- Exercise (even 2h+ moderate) doesn't have any effect, adjusting caffeine doesn't seem to either

- A warm shower immediately before bed strangely did seem to have a considerable although not perfectly consistent effect

- Experiments ongoing

+ orgasm before washing up

Edit: am i wrong, who doesn't sleep better and easier with that outcome in-hand?

K during. I agree with downvoters that its best not to seperate the two. Order of operations and all that

you really can't. You can play around with caffeine, melatonin, magnesium, weed, whatever to improve falling asleep but very little is understood about these sleep stages to begin with except "you need them" and "everyone needs a different amount of them"

by far the most important thing you CAN do is have a consistent sleep schedule (every day! Including weekends!) and make your bed for sleeping and sex only.