Similar thing would happen in my Toyota, the song 'Afraid' by Yellowcard would play every time I turned on the car. Realized it was playing the first song in my library. In Apple Music there is a song called 'A a a a a Very Good Song (Silent Track)' by artist Samir Mezrahi, that contains 10 minutes of silence. I added that to my library and now that song plays when I turn on my car (although this autoplay only happens occasionally since some Toyota update). The album art simply says: 'have a wonderful day.'

The song: https://music.apple.com/us/album/a-a-a-a-a-very-good-song-si...

I had a Mercedes lease for three years with the same problem of automatically playing the first song as sorted alphabetically. In my case, it was "A Boy Named Sue" by Johnny Cash. That song loses its humor after you hear it a few hundred times.

Same thing with my husband's car, his phone, and the song "A-Punk" by Vampire Weekend. I now jokingly play it as the first song any time we head off on a long road trip, much to his immense frustration.

Sort happens by album artist over here, the first one being Take On Me by a-ha, triggering all sorts of physical pavlovian reactions now.

Trigger seems to be iOS thinking it's being helpful so that when I "plug" headphones (either physically, bluetoothically, or carplayly) I presumably want to play music.

Also, double click on Library in Music.app nee iTunes on macOS. Plays the whole library, linearly, which, like, who does that?

> Also, double click on Library in Music.app nee iTunes on macOS. Plays the whole library, linearly, which, like, who does that?

Often, when I see a feature like that, one that makes you ask "who would want to do that with the whole dataset?" — the answer is usually "developers regression-testing their feature branch of the program, where their 'whole dataset' is a test fixture consisting of a bunch of data samples where each one exercises a weird edge-case path in the code."

Sure, you could just make a playlist for this. But iTunes has a directory it watches within the library, where putting stuff in it will cause iTunes to automatically move those songs into your library. And if I were an iTunes dev, my scripted "Test" action would consist of creating a new library directory structure; plonking a copy of my regtest fixture dataset into its auto-import dir; starting up the new build targeting that dir; and then sending it the Automator action "Library → Play All." A playlist would only complicate that.

> iOS thinking it's being helpful so that when I "plug" headphones (either physically, bluetoothically, or carplayly) I presumably want to play music

There’s gotta be something else going on because I’ve never had this happen over the last decade. I’m pretty sure the car is sending a play command to the phone every time it connects.

I’ve had tons of cars and only seen this behaviour in one - think was Citroen.

Mercedes does this. A Ford that I rented last year did so as well.

Except it happens randomly with headsets, whether bluetooth (Bose QC35) or wired (EarPods)

Haha, I can hum that opening riff instantaneously because it's the first song on my wife's phone. Do di do di do di do di do di do di. Bum, bum, bum bum bum bum!

My car's song of choice is About a Girl (Live Acoustic) from Nirvana's MTV Unplugged in New York live album

Heh, decades ago a Phil Collins tape was stuck in my car's cassette player (yes, that was a thing) and there was no way to switch to radio when there is a tape inside. I guess I listened to that album few hundred times until I decided to do something (probably spray some WD-40) about it.

But why the hell is it autoplaying in the first place? Does apple really hate their customers/users so much that they can't make this an option?

That's completely insane. The more I learn about apple, the more I see extremely hostile UI decisions for literally no reason

I believe what’s happening is that certain car stereos are programmed to basically send the “play” command as soon as a device is connected. From the phone’s perspective, it’s as if you had connected Bluetooth headphones and then pressed the “play/pause” button.

I say this because my iPhone never autoplays when connecting to any Bluetooth audio device except for my car stereo.

I agree it’s aggressive and should be able to be turned off, but it’s the car’s software, not the phone’s, that’s the problem.

Sending the play command itself would be less of a problem if iOS wasn’t so completely opaque as to what “currently playing” or “default music app” means, but that distinction itself would require more clarity as to whether apps can be run in the background or not.

Agree that a "play" command is being sent from vehicle. This autostarts Apple Music if nothing else is using the speaker.

This drives me crazy as I don't use Apple Music and I don't want to keep playing handful of songs I bought 15 years ago on iTunes. I've yet to find out how to disable this.

Delete the Apple Music app from your phone.

I don't have an iPhone. But at least on OSX I didn't find a clean way to remove Apple Music.

Every time I accidentally tap play on my bluetooth headset it opens Apple Music and asks me accept the ToS, which I happily reject. It's a daily thing for me because it's almost impossible to put my headphones on without triggering a play due to bad button placement.

You can try remapping the button. Not sure if it would work, but try: https://superuser.com/questions/554489/how-can-i-remap-a-pla...

Yep, I have it disabled. My main music apps are “Picky” and Bandcamp, and it works pretty well.

When they do start autoplaying in the car (Picky does it), it’s at least whatever I album I was last playing on the app.

Couldn't the phone provide an option to disable this on a per-device basis?

IME, this doesn't happen in any of my Subaru vehicles. It picks up where I am in Spotify with no issues. Whether via carplay or connecting via Apple's Car integration.

That said, I have had this issue when connecting an iPhone to a '11 truck via USB. It tries to treat it like an iPod, and consume its default playlist (all songs in Music, sans shuffle).

So this is probably the bluetooth equivalent being done by the cars - treat it like an iPod that the entertainment center should be in charge of.

As others have already explained, the autoplay is because the car sends a "play" command as soon as the bluetooth connects.

From the auto manufacturer's perspective, this kinda "makes sense". Because that was the legacy behavior, pre-bluetooth. If you turn off your car with the radio playing, then the radio will start playing again the next time you crank up the car. If drivers didn't want that, then hey... they would have turned off the stereo before turning off their car. So it would be less confusing to carry forward that legacy behavior into this new thing.

The problem is, it's 10 years later now. The culture and the consumer expectations have shifted. Maybe (?) the radio-like behavior makes sense for older consumers in their 60's and up, who lived with radio for many years more than they've lived with bluetooth. But for the younger bluetooth-native consumers, it's generally pretty infuriating.

It's LONG past time for auto makers to stop this legacy behavior with bluetooth connections. Or at the very least, offer the option to disable it somewhere in a dashboard menu.

> If drivers didn't want that, then hey... they would have turned off the stereo before turning off their car.

There was a time of honey and milk where we could visualy inspect the power/volume nob before ignition and see if the radio was on or off. Maybe even turn the nob with a reassuring little feedback click.

I think the design is actually for us under 60, who got into the car listening to a podcast on earbuds, and want to continue listening as we drive off.

What I can't get over is that I can be driving the car for 3 minutes before the podcast I was just listening to will play in my car (which does not have this play command quirk).

I've always assumed this is a bug. Why isn't it just resuming from whatever you were last listening to? And why is this still an issue after so long?

This is one of those things that Steve Jobs would have fired people on the spot for.

If you are listening to Spotify and accidentally engage with a video on Facebook, after the video plays, your device will be completely silent. “Now Playing” will be blank. If you press Play it will resume from whatever was last playing … in Music.app!

If you have a HomePod playing your family member’s music, say “Hey Siri, pause” because a phone call came in, and then “Hey Siri, play,” it will start playing wherever _your_ music.app last left off.

User intention is a really tricky problem! But a cynical thought would be “why would Apple fix a bug that causes people to use Music.app more?”

Perhaps I am lucky but my Subaru does resume whatever I was last listening to. Although it seems to prioritize the itunes app over podcasts for some reason so even if I had been listening to a podcast there is a chance it will play whatever was last up in itunes. :/

Same. I have an Acura and it plays whatever the last thing that was playing out the speakers or headphones of the phone was. If that was Apple Music, that's what plays. If it was Podcasts, that's what plays. For many years, I used a 3rd party podcast app, and it would play that.

It does, however, have the same connection problems described in the root of this thread. Sometimes just doesn't see the car (or vice-versa). Sometimes connects and starts playing within a minute of starting the car. Sometimes (frequently) stops playing after like 1 minute of playing. Sometimes auto-reconnects a minute later, sometimes doesn't. It's very irritating.

I assume it's something to do with the devices not quite recognizing themselves as being identical to last time (perhaps any single change to anything on the iPhone causes it to download all the playlists again, etc).

I just use a stupid adapter with a mini jack input. Ain't got time for wireless wierdness.

Engagement is eating the world, maybe engagement is now driving these decisions, too. People who listen more, buy more, so optimize for time spent listening.

My car and phone achieve a level of randomness that makes me wonder at the complexity of the software behind it. Usually it starts playing Music, but sometimes it's another app, especially if the last thing playing on my phone was YouTube. But sometimes it's YouTube even if the last app that played audio was something else. Sometimes I get the pause music from a game that's been running in the background for days.

I can't even predict whether Music will start in shuffle mode and pick a random song or if it will start playing an album I was recently listening to in sequential mode.

The result is that I've started to look at my phone the way I used to look at cable TV, as an invader in my home that works for people who want to manipulate me.

So there's actually three different components involved with this. Someone else has already mentioned the possibility of cars that just lie to your phone and say you pressed the play button because "well the user connected their phone they must want music".

The OS itself is also responsible for managing where that "play" command goes, and because this is a mobile device it also manages what apps are in memory, which one owns media playback, etc. If nothing is currently playing, it has to pick something, because you pressed the play button and you're currently driving down an overextended highway at unconscionably American speeds and can't be arsed to care about what app's play button needs to be pressed.

Individual apps can also grab or drop the media playback role at any time. Maybe that game has some background sync nonsense to send you a bunch of notifications, and whenever it gets woken up to do that the game engine it was written on immediately tries to start media playback because nobody tested it for background use.

Music's inconsistent behavior sounds like someone didn't implement state resumption correctly.

The underlying problem is that nobody owns the whole experience and this all is supposed to happen without projecting selection UI to the user. The phone just hears "PLAY MUSIC DAMN YOU" and makes a shitty guess as to what you meant.

This is one reason I'll only run customized android builds without gapps until something better comes along. Linux phone devices are becoming more and more appealing

i seem to recall that this is what the spec calls for, and toyota follows the spec. it drives me up the wall.

Why do you assume this was decided by Apple?

Because they're the ones programming iOS? Who else would decide it, it's not like iOS is an open source project

It's obviously the car. Otherwise you would have heard of this problem well before now.

The car may send the request to play, but the OS decides to play the same song again and again and again...

Hmmm, what about these 10 or so comments of iPhone users with various cars?

It's quite clear that all those cars are sending a play command.

Yet, no negative opinions from android users.

Modern problems require modern solutions. Nice work.

Modem problems require AT solutions, but I guess I need a font problem solution.

I created a one-hour long silent MP3 and named it similarly and added it to my phone. I've sent it to a friend who uses it as well.

I have a script (simple ffmpeg wrapper) to generate silent mp3 files:

https://github.com/marbu/scriptpile/blob/master/silence.sh

I'm not quite sure what I needed that for anymore, but I find it interesting that there are such weird use cases for this.

Call it Subliminal productivity silence and you can make a fortune.

Semi-related: I tried out Microsoft/Ford's SYNC system (voice commands for your car) in '08 and was upset that it didn't seem to support an option for "continue listening to podcast series X where I left off" ... like, the thing you would want to do all the time. (Item 5.)

http://blog.tyrannyofthemouse.com/2008/07/setting-sync-strai...

I use a jailbreak tweak for this: http://cydia.saurik.com/package/com.itortrix.stopplayin12/

Samir is brilliant. Talk about identifying a need and then solving it in the most efficient way possible.

I wonder how much this person makes in royalties for a silent track.

Was (and maybe still is?) top of the charts

https://www.engadget.com/2017-08-10-silent-10-minute-song-it...

My dad added the song to the library, but it didn’t work, because he has a song called “A” [1] in his library and that one takes priority. It’s a family in-joke now.

[1] https://music.apple.com/gb/album/a/1316144097?i=1316144100

My car does this too! Except the first song in my library is A Christmas Festival by Boston Pops Orchestra.

The song has a dramatic opening, to say the least.

That is the best workaround for a software problem, I've ever heard.

My Toyota only plays my iPhone bluetooth if (a) my car is in bluetooth "mode" and not radio and (b) I have my music app open.

I've never experienced what you (two) describe. 2020 Toy and iPhone 11.

I have a 2017 Toyota and never has that problem. Though for awhile I did have an issue where audible kept starting randomly but it seems to have fixed itself.

Haha, sorry, reminds me - my wife hates U2 with violent passion.

Eventually I asked her what caused such burning rage, and she said her car starts playing a specific U2 song every time she turns it on. For years!

Eventually I traced it to a promotional album U2 and apple and iTunes pushed to her devices without her knowledge.

Man can these things backfire!

But yeah we have a 2019 Honda and iPhones xr (not my choice; iPhone is work mandated) and there's just no telling what'll happen any given time when we start the car. Especially annoying since modern infotainment units make you wait 3 to 5 seconds to display crucial legal information before you can mute the darn thing. And let's not start if you have more than one Bluetooth headphone and more than one device at home :(

(Yes I'm now the grouch that misses 3.5mm on modern phones and uses my old Note 8 and wired Sennheiser to listen to music hassle free :D)

Highly likely I'm misremembering, but a decade (at least) or so, there was an iTunes promo where Itunes literally pushed a free U2 album to everyone who had an iTunes account for free.

I specifically remember the internet hate that received at the time haha.

Here's a link: https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/09/09/the-free-u2-album...

Yup. And the hate and negative backlash is still here - I'm not kidding, my wife can NOT hear U2 without a visceral reaction! It followed her through like 3 cars, until she finally married a guy nerdy and persistent enough :-D

That's literally what the parent comment is describing

It bears repeating. I've tried to remove that f*cking album from my library so many times, on so many devices. It's effectively unkillable; and I'm no stranger to computers.

Why that tax-dodging blowhard felt he had the right to squeeze his turd of an album onto each and every apple product I buy for, presumably, the rest of my life is unfathomable.

It's as simple as Jobs thinking people would like a free album, but they had no mechanism to "offer" an album, so they just added the entitlement to everyone's accounts. Then they had no mechanism to "remove" an entitlement, because why would anyone want to remove content that they "bought"?

Jobs died 3 years prior to this.

It’s really weird how much love Apple has for U2. That whole episode was just so cringe and tone deaf. Knowing the internal politics around it would be fascinating as surely someone tried to stop it.

I totally agree with that, I didn't like U2 back then but I know actively hate them since that episode.

We should start a club!

My son just bought a 3.5 mm adapter for the phone. Turns out the younger generation prefers wired too.

I sometimes wonder what the world would be like without FAANG. I'm lead to believe the world would be a better place if all companies would have a max company size of Bose, or Sennheiser. Then no stupid decisions could be pushed through by force, like the removal of the 3.5 mm jack. If the market really wants it, they will eventually vote with their wallet. Same goes with social media, fb killed off local country-specific social media, which sometimes had much better features and less agressivity/conspiracy theories/scams.

Of course the true FAANG solution would be to include a 3.5mm jack but disable it in software, requiring £4.99 per month to enable it with a rent-seeking subscription service.

Can I get an audiophile 'Hi-def' tier for $9.99 that's almost but not quite 1982 CD quality?

Seems like that’s more the BMW solution (ref. heated seats subscription)

The market wants what the other segment of the market has, that's the purpose of marketing. Phones with no jacks, like laptops with no i/o, is something impractical that people self-justify because of the logo and the clout it affords. You're part of the in group, you made it, you have achieved sameness, you have an iPhone.

Airpods are just about the worst headphones money can buy and people fight over them, despite there being headphones sold for <$100 that blow them out of the water. I have in-ear-monitors that cost a fraction of what an airpod does, has detachable cords AND bluetooth to each ear, and they sound much better and balanced.

Whoever took away the audio port on modern phones should be dragged outside and beaten like an unruly fax machine.

The airpods do one thing much better than anything else I've tried: work with an iPhone.

I went through a few other pairs of bluetooth "true wireless" ear buds and every single one of them would exhibit the normal bluetooth problems. Sometimes one wouldn't connect. Sometimes both wouldn't connect. Sometimes trying to resolve this I'd "forget" them and then not be able to pair them again necessitating pulling out the manual and figuring out how to do a hard reset on some ear buds. And then ending up with only one paired. Etc, etc.

I pretty much exclusively use in-ear headphones to listen to something to fall asleep to, so this is generally happening as I've already wound down and gotten into bed and... now it's tech support time!

I paired the airpods to my phone the first time and have never had them fail to connect immediately since.

This is why AirPods are popular. While this drives audiophiles and geeks who obsess over performance of their technology (not knocking them, I’m one of them for many devices) up the wall, the reality is most people are not audiophiles and can barely tell the difference. What they want are reasonably comfortable headphones that just work, and Bluetooth is so famously bad at this that AirPods stand out.

> the reality is most people are not audiophiles and can barely tell the difference.

That hasn't been my experience at all. The differences, even to a lay person, or not subtle.

Now, I can believe that many don't care, I can't believe that they can't tell.

The work every time...and my hearing is shot so the last 5% worth of fidelity is lost on me.

And my wife experienced their noise cancelling once on a flight and bought a set the next day.

And we can share the audio between two airpod things when watching a movie, but not with non-Apple products.

I've gone through a few different high-end bluetooth buds from Jabra to Sony.

I keep coming back to my Airpods, something that was gifted to me a year ago, when the other ones break. Most recently, one of my Jabra Elite buds plays audio at 50% volume from one ear 50% of the time.

Not a fan of the tap interface nor the shape of the things nor the need to use a rubber condom (that doesn't fit in the case so I have to remove/add every time), but my Airpods are the ones that I can count on, so I have to give them that.

Just a note: I had faltering volume on my Jabra Elite earbuds and I found an unauthorized repair [0] that brought it back to life. It requires some delicate cleaning of build up in the vent hole.

[1] <https://crt.the-mori.com/2020-09-25-solve-jabra-elite-active...>

Thanks, I will try that. I wouldn't be surprised if my ear gunk liquefied into them and then crystallized deep inside the inner sanctums.

This. I am honestly bewildered when I see the tech press comparing true wireless earbuds to AirPods and not mentioning the enormous ergonomic differences.

Bluetooth experiences will be largely software-dependent. Comparing Airpods on a Macbook to a Windows laptop and some Sony earbuds? It's no contest, Airpods will win every time. If we're, say, testing the Airpods on Windows and the Sony buds on Linux (where they have LDAC support), the tables will be completely turned. All of these headphones are context-sensitive, and will behave differently on different hardware. You're not exactly writing a novel thesis here.

Airpods are still just Bluetooth with an extra chip for NFC pairing. All of the "magic" your Airpods provide are software-based, not part of the actual hardware you're buying. I think Tech Press is totally justified to ignore software that isn't part of the headphones itself.

> All of the "magic" your AirPods provide are software-based

This is actually not true. AirPods contain custom silicon from Apple for the controller that speaks bluetooth, whereas most true wireless headphones use a Qualcomm chip, and therefore suffer the exact same ergonomic issues almost regardless of price. The most obvious way this is shown is that you can be on a call with the right airpod in, then seamlessly add the left to the call and put the right back in the case all without dropping the call, developing sync issues, or making the switch obvious to the other party. It's especially useful if your airpods are low on power. Airpods also better than average (in my experience) at switching devices when clicking the connect button from a device they are not currently connected to. This is most obviously good with apple devices (where there is auto pairing based on apple id), but in my experience it works better than the average even on non-apple devices. I am comparing the experience to Sony WF-100XM3 as well as cheaper devices like soundcore liberty neo.

Of course you are correct that there are additional software derived things that make airpods nice on apple products. When they work well, they can be pretty great, but I still find those hit or miss. For me, the way the controller can switch easily between the right and left as well as easy pairing are what makes airpods great.

The only feature the wideband chip provides is the device switching and pairing, which is largely redundant with multipoint Bluetooth spec and NFC, respectively. I'll appreciate what Apple did ergonomically, but I found the "smartness" of Airpods to be less reliable than using my XM4s connected to both the devices I was using. I understand the layman's struggle here, but I honestly think most people's bad experiences with Bluetooth were in the < v3 era, where things like multipoint hadn't been introduced and reliability/pairing were... shaky.

Nowadays, I think any phone running Android 10+ or Linux device using Pipewire has the best wireless audio experience I can think of. You can have high-bitrate audio codecs with excellent latency and a connection that's as good as the antennae you have plugged in. AAC and the funnel of buying U1 chip devices doesn't really put up enough of a fight, especially for a company that's long prided itself on delivering quality audio experiences.

Isn't all that it just works software "driver quality"? If we were talking about a graphics card that couldn't detect monitor resolution and keep connected, we wouldn't give the card a pass just because it is a driver issue.

I mean, there are plenty of perfectly functional graphics cards that are given a pass because their drivers don't work with Wayland or refuse to implement resizable BAR. These are pretty solidly driver issues (ones that have persisted over decades, at that), and nobody really ever brings it up because it's not necessarily Nvidia's responsibility to address it.

The larger factor (in my eyes) is implementation. Bluetooth quality is all over the place: mobile Bluetooth stacks used to be abysmal until ~5 years ago, and desktop OSes still don't have it ironed out yet. It makes perfect sense that reviewers would focus on the hardware, as opposed to enumerating how each device works on each operating system, and so on.

>> You're part of the in group, you made it, you have achieved sameness, you have an iPhone.

I assumed I was just a grouchy old man (because I am:) but I recently found out what level of social stratification happens for teenagers without iPhone. Immediate judgement, plus the continued dreaded green text box. It is brutal

I thought I was exaggerating the iPhone as a status symbol as opposed to actually convenient / technical solution, turns out I was naive.

(there ARE things that Apple does very well, when it comes to integrating within ecosystem, though some of them are CREEPY - like being prompted to share my wifi password with another person who happens to be looking for wifi around me; just because they happen to have an iPhone doesn't make them my best friend... or does it :P )

Imagine how I feel, I don't carry or use phones, period. The level of outright indignation I experience is pretty high. People resort to levels of disgust when met with someone who openly rejects carrying around a little bother-box in their pocket as if I'm some type of unwashed knave.

I don't think I can fully imagine; I prefer my ergonomic keyboard and massive monitor to be sure, so I dislike phone-first solutions (GRRR Whatsapp GRRR), or phone-priority design, and computers are definitely my hammer of choice.

But between Winnipeg winter storms and kids and experience of civil war and strife in a previous lifetime, mobile phones as a safety lifeline were a strong priority for me early in my life in late 90's; and then I was one of those nerdy guys with Palm Pilot (I used to read entire books... many many books... on a 320x320px screen - which is why I find it hilarious when people so righteously proclaim "Retina or bust" :), then Palm Treo then HTC G1 then Galaxy S2 and so on. I am too self-absorbed or something to worry about social media (I genuinely don't care what anybody else had for lunch or the cute picture of their cat or the latest copy pasted platitude that's 5 words but 3MB overcompressed JPEG grr!), so scrolling Facebook or twitter notification etc are not a real threat vector in a portable phone for me. Which is to say, I don't care one iota if anybody else has a portable phone or not, but I personally find it much too convenient; and I can see it impacting me if somebody else doesn't have a phone, not from status perspective but from practical perspective - there's a change of plans, but oh, Bob is still going to the CoolCafe and we can't tell him to meet us at the NiceRestaurant; or my tire is blown, how am I going to call anybody; etc. How do you handle stuff like that?

Yeah that sucks. I graduated collage in 2008 and I refused to get a phone before that point. The amount of people complaining how it is inconvenient that they have to call your room phone instead of texting, how they can't make plans(in reality, it is a crutch for lack of planning), etc.

For a while, it was the same with Facebook.

If it may be a helpful perspective - I don't care if I phone one's room phone or cell phone; but texting/messaging is a completely different mode of communication than a phone call to begin with.

Texting, like messaging and email, are async whereas phone is sync. For 99% of my communication, I don't need to talk to somebody right now (and they don't need to talk to me right now :). I don't care if other party has a cell phone or not, but written comms is preferred to voice comm for large number of my requirements.

Similarly, email/messaging/text can trivially be a group conversation, and plans can be narrowed down or many people can be informed quickly; again, don't care if other party has cell phone or not, but in many circumstances I'd prefer to send one quick message/email/text, than to call 7 people.

(lest you think I lack empathy, I am of course on the other side of the equation too! My family is all on Whatsapp, which for me is the worst messaging system that an evil mind could possibly invent, so I feel the pressure :)

Not that I don't understand the difference between the communication modes, mostly just empathizing with the parent.

Personally I hate text because most people will reply with one or 2 word answers and it takes much longer to get a decision vs a minute phone call.

In collage my reasoning was purely financial and this was the beginning of the mass adoption wave. I can only guess that the pressure to conform is so much greater and the scorn/ridicule for not is as well.

I also wonder if we will see a counter wave similar to the "I don't watch TV" that happened. Phones are great but they are also insediously great time wasters.

Agreed; with text, and possibly since the days of BBM, there's also the personal pet peeve when a simple answer is spread across 7 individual messaged :D

I think some counter movements are already seen; and more mainstream, people are trying to learn how to limit / constrain their phone interactions. Part of the problem is that our labeling is horrible outdated - it's not actually the "Phone" part of the rectangular device that's usually the problem, it's the "massively powerful computer and media consumption device" part :D

It's almost a requirement out in the world. Recently the following come to mind:

- A food truck sends a text when your food is ready

- The menu at the restaurant is only available via a QR code which sends you to a website

- You have to take a picture of your license plate for some parking requirement

I'd never look down on anybody without a phone. In fact, I'd really respect it.

But I would be frustrated if it was somebody close to me, if (if!) there was no other way to contact them.

> You're part of the in group, you made it, you have achieved sameness, you have an iPhone.

Orrrrr we tolerate repeated mistakes on Apple's part because every time we poke our heads up and look around at the rest of the market (or even try switching for a while!) it's clear we'd just be trading every one problem for three others.

I sincerely wish any other tech companies would at least credibly pretend to actually be competing with Apple head-on, rather than just avoiding them and trying to fill other niches.

The thing I never liked about Airpods is, instead of having one thing that is hard to lose, we now have three easy to lose things.

I see the same happening with a certain new EV that I won't name. It has a nice design, but often gets people stranded, outright bricked through OTA. To the point where dealers advise users not to perform OTA updates. Literal pieces falling off the car while driving. The need to call the tow truck after 2k miles is very common. In normal car terms, it's junk. But people fight tooth and nail to defend it. Exactly because of the 'tribal' thinking you mention. It's our 'tribe', so we close in.

Sounds dire. What car is this, and where can I read about these cars that very commonly fail after 2k miles?

When I was a kid, I mowed the lawn for a neighbor who was a mechanic. He exclusively worked on Porsches. He claimed most luxury cars would break down if you bought one and tried to drive it across the country. He rattled off some known issues that were baked into the manufacturing process, but rich people didn't care since it's mostly a status symbol.

This was in the late 1900's....

I am extremely puzzled by true wireless bluetooth headphones to a point where it's hard to find high-end wired bluetooth headphones.

True wireless have so many drawbacks: - lower battery life yet people got convinced that they last long thanks to powerbank, I meant ,,case" which you need to carry.

- bulkier so they stick out of ear one way or another. They fall down easily when changing t-shirts, huddies .. - easy to lose

> it's hard to find high-end wired bluetooth headphones

pre-covid we had an open floorplan office, typical valley startup layout, no noise dampening etc

Everyone had the bose 35 quiet comfort i or ii noise canceling headphones. I was one of the new guys so started off with a $60 panasonic noise canceling headphone, and later when released got the sony ...mx4000? noise canceling headphones because they had USB-C in ~2016 and I brought them with me on my most recent trip here in 2022

I don't know anyone who has ever complained about their bose or sony bluetooth noise canceling headphones. They just work, all the time, every time. Except that one time I forgot to charge them and let them run down to 0% (and it even warned me about an hour before)

> I don't know anyone who has ever complained about their bose or sony bluetooth noise canceling headphones.

My Sony XM4 cans often give me trouble with bluetooth. Once in a while, there is no sound from the device. The device says "connected", the phone app says it's connected, the computer says it's connected. The way to fix it is to plugin the 3.5mm jack, and take it off. The device powers off. The next time it is powered on, it works properly. Lots of other people have had this trouble too. I did not discover this "fix" myself, but was written online somewhere.

Yeah those headphones are great, but they are not true wireless.

I use them at the gym because I hate having things on my face/head while I'm sweaty. I don't have a use case for wired bluetooth headphones that isn't better served by something with a 3.5mm jack.

> you have achieved sameness, you have an iPhone.

You mean "....you have iPhone". Gotta get the weird marketing right if you want to be in the club.

I hope the community will find it in their hearts to be swayed by my humble appeal, I mean no harm. Who will help the widow's son?

I have some Bluetooth speakers from Teufel. They are pretty big and heavy and supposedly good (actually way too bassy for me, hard to listen to podcasts on). And they have a battery, so they are mobile.

They heave this “feature” where they turn off after 10 min of silence. And they’re Bluetooth, so once they turn off, u have to walk to the damn speaker (no remote), push the power button that’s hidden on the back for several seconds (less used buttons are visible on top), then go to your playback device and reconnect the Bluetooth.

People on the forums have been complaining about this for years, and the support still says this feature can’t be turned off.

For a company that supposedly makes very carefully designed, great Audio equipment made in Germany, this user interface is infuriating, pointless and feels never actually tested. (Also, Nowadays nobody reviews products anymore so bad user interfaces are not caught). Btw, I have some Bluetooth speakers with a tiny battery that will stay on for a day and not turn off, idling takes nearly no battery power.

So yeah, this is like the laziest product I have owned, that just dares u to stop a movie for a bathroom or snack break lest it goes back to sleep, and it wasn’t designed by some big monolithic FANG but a supposedly user centric design focused hiish end shop.

3.5mm can go to hell for a phone. I’d prefer the waterproofing we have with iPhones nowadays. If you need an adapter they are available.

Interesting; is there some connection between waterproofing and 3.5mm I'm missing?

There's plenty of phones and devices waterproofed to any given standard with 3.5mm. To my ignorant mind, a USB C or Lightning port is not fundamentally different exposure / difficulty than 3.5mm when it comes to this - this is far from my area of expertise, but a cursory google search, and plentiful of counter-examples, indicates this is just a post-hoc justification for Apple's removal, not a real critical path.

Understanding that "if you need something, get an adapter / live the dongle life" is the core Apple philosophy, and agreeing that most standards should eventually die (parallel port, Firewire, etc), 3.5mm still seems a uniquely standardized, useful, and time proof feature that's is sorely missed with no adequate replacement (dongle, of course, is not it, for many reasons - expense, inconvenience, losing them, and if you want to charge your phone while being on a call things get very wonky very quickly - does Apple even offer a 1st-party solution for this common office-worker use-case?)

Sony solved open headphone jack while being water proof nearly a decade ago. The idea the phone can't have a headphone jack and be waterproof was a lie pushed by Apple to save money on not having to put in a headphone jack.

I've been using Sony phones in the shower and at the beach for years now and only briefly switched to a different company when they tried to pull that headphone jack removal of crap briefly when I needed a new phone.

My understanding was that it’s always been about the physical size and the impact it has on the stack-up of iPhone components. Looking at a standard mini-jack vs. my iPhone 13, the connector itself is close to 40% of the thickness of the phone. Add the additional size for the jack’s structure and you quickly get to a point where the phone has to be thicker.

Now, has Apple gotten too obsessive about thin phones? Maybe - but that’s a different discussion.

If that is the case, I have a hard time believing it's still true on any model past iPhone X. There's plenty of space to fit a 3.5mm jack in there, I would happily trade any/all of the FaceID hardware or Lidar components for a headphone connector.

I don't see how that could be true. The thinnest ever iPhone was the 6, and it had a headphone jack. The phones since then have been 3-20% thicker.

Some searching suggests that 5mm is about the point where it won't fit, and iPhones are comfortably 7+. One of these phones is 5.6mm thick with a headphone jack and has near-zero bezels.

Phones exist that have both waterproofing and a headphone jack. I’m sure it’s a challenge, but it’s not technically an either or decision.

Is there? Last time I checked there doesn’t seem to be a dongle that both outputs and charges my iPhone in the car. Or the non Apple ones have terrible reviews that they set off the persons coffee maker scalding the persons dog or something.

so you're saying that a 3.5mm port cannot be waterproof, yet the stupid Apple proprietary power/data port can?

Lightning is anything but stupid. It’s small, has no breakable bits in the phone side of the port, and is pretty ubiquitous. I don’t have to worry about whether this cable and charger support the Lightning 2-a (IIV) Gold standard ala USB-C.

USB-C just felt terrible to me when I had a Nexus 5x. Port wasn’t as secure, cable was huge. Not a fan.

Some people wreck the 1st-party cables abnormally quickly; they should buy one of those armored cables from Amazon.

It's stupid in that it has exposed pins. It's stupid in that its proprietary. It's stupid in a lot of ways. It's not not stupid because you like it.

It's patently ridiculous how much better the microphone on $15 wired headphones is than the ones on a $50 set of wireless earbuds.

A 25 dollar logitech wired headset with a boom is brilliant. I have people with $200+ airpods on the call and I hear their cat dog air conditioner wind spouse keyboard car and everything. But they cannot be told this - they have expensive earbuds and they can hear ME fine, so it's all great!

But you're starting with the wrong assumption: that people focus on having the best option in each situation. The people buying Airpods probably know they're not the best headphones or microphone. They are the best jack of all trades even if master of none. They are the best package. And you rarely choose what's best for others, others probably do the same.

So when you WhatsApp from your mobile someone else has to see you type slowly, full of autocorrect errors and typos. You don't switch to the web Whatsapp from a computer, or a model M attached to the phone despite knowing they are faster because you get their messages fast and correct so it's all great.

Boom mic is always the superior choice.

Yes. All the software / DSP processing can't help if the physics is against you.

By placing the microphone close to the mouth noises you make, you are increasing, by many orders of magnitude, the signal-to-noise ratio.

Cars and other large BT devices (like an Amazon Echo) can use multiple microphones and some fancy processing to really isolate the voice signal coming from a specific direction (relative to the device) and also cancel out surrounding noise sources.

With ear-bud systems, you can't fit in many microphones, nor can you spatially separate them enough for the software to do the job.

In an absolute sound quality sense, yes.

But they also pick up peoples' gross mouth noises. You hear them chewing food, wheezing when they have a cold, or even eating food in waaaaay too much detail.

Obviously mute buttons exist but... I've had multiple remote coworkers with boom mics and even if they rememeber to mute 90% of the time over the course of a year that other 10% really adds up lol

The solution to that problem is not a better microphone, the solution to it is noise-canceling software. It filters out something like 95% of gross mouth noises, and 99% of stupid background noises (Cars, fans, ACs, etc.)

Most cheap wireless headsets are cutting the bandwidth down to like 4k for voice when you're talking.

It's also not surprising when you realize no one buying these things is testing the mic before the purchase. They probably aren't even testing how it sounds. It's hard to sell better things when most customers will never know how bad they sound, and even the ones who do probably won't care. And worst of all they'll blame zoom, or the telephone network, or their internet, anything but the cheap piece of crap mic and half bandwidth connection they're using.

Sorry for the rant. The economics of consumer audio are why I personally quit the industry. Some of these things are easy fixes but no one cares enough to make them.

I prefer wired because, for some reason, car audio via Bluetooth has adaptive volume, i.e. I start coasting in the car and the music becomes almost inaudible. I speed up and it returns to normal.

This....

I have exactly the same problem with the U2 album. In general, I like U2, but that album is a pain. It starts up every now and then in my car with carplay. Especially if I have my phone on with no app in the foreground when I plug it in.

I feel you man...

The Miracle (Of Joey Ramone) must be our most listened Song of all time.

For me it was The Jackson 5's ABC that would play as soon as I plugged my phone into my car. That opening "A buh-buh buh buh" is ingrained in my memory forever.

There's an app by Apple that allows you to remove the U2 songs

Looks like that might be retired going by https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251184844

> Customers are no longer able to remove the album on their own. You will need to reach out to Apple Support directly to have the album removed

I guess this is the essence, of why I never wanted an apple device. And I bookmark this comment, in case I forget ..

I would need to ask my apple masters, if they please remove U2 from my device? No thank you.

You can remove the album from your device just fine; This is about removing it from your account, which is contingent on the provider you have the account with no matter what company you're dealing with.

I remember raging about this back when it happened and my coworkers couldn't understand why I just wouldn't like a free album, and am I bothered by two half-naked men embracing each other?

Boulder people are strange.

Same. Happened twice, really. Once on the ipod and then the iphone. Made U2 haters out of my wife and myself. I wonder how many people hate U2 music now because this.

There used to be a link to remove the album[1] but it seems like they shut it down. So the only way for you to remove the album from your account is to contact apple support.

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-29208540#:~:text=Apple%2....

I also have an alarm set up I cannot delete. It says "pick up Matt from school." It migrated all the way from iPhone 7 to this X. But he has grown up since and I don't need to pick him up anymore. I'll include this in my request.

There is a "Free Airport Wifi" WAP saved on my phone from Mexico City since my iPhone 6. It is long deleted, but it has migrated through the years to my current iPhone 13.

Its residue is left on my phone in only this way: Whenever I connect to a new wifi point, after typing in the password, my phone will say it cannot connect to "Free Airport Wifi". I have to type the password in again (usually one someone just read to me) and connect again.

Related story about the origins of the infamous "Free Public Wifi" viral hotspot: https://readwrite.com/the_story_behind_free_public_wifi_-_it...

I have a similar phenomenon with an exchange account. It's connected to Outlook and everything is working. But sometimes my iPhone X randomly asks me for credentials, doesn't let me input credentials, and then goes away and everything keeps working.

Yeah, something like that happens to me a few times per year. Makes me wonder if I'm being pwned, but only after my pavlov response fills in my creds.

I’ve had a similar saga with my Apple ID profile picture. I snapped it in a poorly lit kitchen with my new laptop’s built-in webcam in December 2008, and in spite of occasional efforts to remove it, it has propagated itself back and forth between devices and services for so long it now looks like a “needs more jpeg” meme. Over the years several people have exclaimed from behind me as I open my laptop “where the hell did that picture come from!?”.

You have a gift for writing humorously.

Yeah, his story cracked me up.

Sorry, what was the humorous writing there? Seemed like a pretty direct statement of the facts of their case. The fact that underlying events are funny doesn't say anything about the style of writing, and I don't see any stylistic choices that were going for "deliberately humorous writing", let alone ones that show a gift (though of course the poster might show it in other contexts!).

I think it's a good question.

> Seemed like a pretty direct statement of the facts of their case

That's exactly what tickled me. He could have just said "My car keeps playing the same album when I adjust the console" but chose to focus on elements of the story that are vivid. He let the funny aspects of the situation shine through specifically _because_ he picked interesting elements to state directly.

Anyway, I don't like to pick apart what is humorous to me about something because it spoils the magic :)

Are we taking about the same comment? We’re taking about one that mentions an alarm, not an album.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32163781

And yes, I get that it rutina the fun to break down the logic too much, but you specifically complimented a style, and claimed the persona generally “had a gift” when there was no obVious style that made the comment funny, just the fact of the alarm being long obsolete for its intended purpose.

You have a gift for writing pedantically

Woah. This comment is hilarious, but it's not the writing.

But to explain the humorous aspects of the poster's story, it's the naked men that he sprinkles throughout the story. Mentioning it multiple times is what makes it funny among funny bits.

> Woah. This comment is hilarious, but it's not the writing.

Hence my confusion at the compliment. And now, at people who find it, in any way objectionable, to express such confusion.

Sir, have you tried picking Matt up and putting him down, narrating your actions for Siri?

The general idea I think is that once you start the car, it just send a play command the moment it detects the connection.

And in theory it _can_ provide a really nice experience. For example I'm walking to my car listening to an audio book, the moment I start the car, BT is connecting to the phone and moves the audio playback from my AirPods to my car speaker without skipping a beat, its really impressive.

Additionally since I'm an Apple Music user, whenever I start the car, it just defaults to whatever's I've been listening to there, unless there was a book / podcast or even YouTube video playing before. Which is very often quite nice.

Now why apple just defaults to Apple Music, and not "your music player of choice a.k.a. Spotify" is questionable, and why the automatic play is also not configurable is beyond me.

Just wanted to give my 2c how this can lead to a good XP.

Doesn’t it also mean that whatever you were listening to yourself, and potentially stopped as you got company, is now playing in the speakers for everyone in the car just as you’re turning it the engine on and can also reach the stop button so fast?

I have experienced this with NWA's "Gangsta Gangsta". Another delightful thing is that the volume is system volume * speaker volume, so that if you turned up the system volume because you were, e.g., using a quiet pair of headphones, this is now blairing at a total unreasonable volume, perhaps even destroying your car's speakers.

This can include that porn you were watching in your mobile browser the night before. Ya know, theoretically.

> …since I'm an Apple Music user, whenever I start the car, it just defaults to whatever's I've been listening to there… […] Now why apple just defaults to Apple Music, and not "your music player of choice a.k.a. Spotify" is questionable…

As you noted, it continues playing whatever you were playing in whatever app you were using, with no preference for Apple Music (I'm also a Music subscriber). If you were playing something with Spotify, that's what will continue to play.

I do wish it were configurable with contextual defaults. Too often, I start my car and my sleep sounds app continues to play "Airplane Interior".

Too often I start my car and it begins playing a podcast where I left off. With my kids in the car. I listen to a decent amount of stuff that isn't necessarily appropriate for kids. Makes for a fun scramble to hit that pause button.

And that pause button is never visible by default in CarPlay. Ya gotta hit the menu button in the bottom left a couple times.

you can set up shortcuts to automatically start playing something. I've got one that changes to music and maxes the audio volume when it connects to my car.

My car (mazda 3) does this where it just sends the play command as soon as the phone (pixel) connects. But it just continues playing whatever I was last listening to, so it's always something different. Kinda nice.

My fathers android does the same thing with YouTube music

> Now why apple just defaults to Apple Music, and not "your music player of choice

I think this should be obvious, they want you further into the ecosystem.

If every morning when you get into your car your iPhone starts playing Apple Music, you're more likely to switch to Apple Music for all of your listening than to get another phone.

Oh my gosh, I didn't know where this was going with the half-naked shaved guys until you said, "Songs of Innocence"... and immediately it became a shared experience. If I could somehow tell my phone, "NEVER play Apple Music, always defer to Spotify if you have to auto-play anything", I'd do it in a heartbeat.

This is the real issue. Apple Music being a firm default. The U2 thing can be deleted from Apple Music. It exists because it was released that way a decade or so ago. It got pushed into everyone’s playlist as a purchased album, but can be deleted. I have no music at all in Apple Music for this reason. I prefer silence over this.

My problem is that I have to turn off BT on my phone for various reasons. Yet, no matter what, when I start my car it turns back on my phones BT setting and reconnects. (Eg. If my wife is playing her phone, then we stop for an errand, and get back in it always goes back to my phone.)

It's why I have NO music on iTunes.

Did you hear that, Apple? I will never give you money for music, ever ever, as long as connecting to a car == play iTunes.

You can delete Apple Music from your phone, but that can break BT Audio playback on some devices.

Nice, thanks! I'm going to try that. I feel like I tried once and it used to be undeletable; probably long time ago.

You can uninstall Apple Music. At least there's that saving grace.

It's definitely a Lexus problem. The BT connection on my Citroen is absolutely 100% flawless. Works every time reliably. But it's literally just a dumb audio and telephony connection. Anything more complicated than that is guaranteed to be absolutely a universally huge fucking shit show.

Its funny as I have the toyota rav4 2021 hybrid, (toyota owns lexus) and have none of these problems. My money is on the shitty 'interpretation' of 'resume last song' between the car and the phone.

The first song in my library was a song by Killswitch Engage. A very loud song with lots of screaming. Ultimately I deleted the Music app from my iPhone to solve the auto play problem. I used Spotify for music at the time (now VLC). Deleting the app to solve the problem definitely feels like an extreme solution to a problem which shouldn’t be a problem at all!

But I have worse Bluetooth problems. My favorite Bluetooth headphones never want to connect the first few times. Trying to connect in this error state turns them off, for some reason. So I have this horrible dance where I turn them on and attempt to connect. My connecting device spins for a while. The headphones have silently turned off. I turn them back in and repeat. After about four times, they will usually connect. But sometimes I have to delete the connection and re-pair. Sometimes I have to turn off Bluetooth on other nearby devices to get it to work. And sometimes when connected, even near my source, the connection just goes silent.

I wish Bluetooth could behave a bit more like FM radio. A source is streaming out audio and my headphones can tune to that secure channel and get the stream. Headphones can tune between channels easily. This would solve my connection woes.

Unfortunately, deleting Music app turns off iPod integration, and now I’m unable to use other media players on my car over USB

Oh no! Didn’t happen to me in my Honda with my iPhone 7, but I guess every car is different.

Reading your comment made me feel like someone had been spying on me in my car. I go through this same thing in my Lexus every time I drive it as well. It is such a relief to know I am not the only one.

Amen, brother.

FWIW, the men are father and son; the lower man is U2's drummer Larry Mullen Jr.

I don't know if it's for much better or much worse, but this allows me some freedom of thought now. Thank you, sir.

Apple has done this for years and my take is they are tying to increase usage and relevance of Apple Music.

For example I only use Spotify in my car but it will not connect correctly unless I download and have Apple Music installed.

Just bad move by apple in my opinion. Just connect by bluetooth and let me use any app want.

Super dumb that you have to put a song labeled A in your song library that is just silence to get around this.

It’s the car that auto plays the first thing. My old car used to do the same thing. New car no longer does this.

I generally hate Bluetooth. But, your post is golden. I'm sorry you are dealing with it.

    I don't know if it's a Lexus problem, or an Apple problem, 
    but what I know is that I really fucking hate U2. 

My best understanding is that this is a Lexus problem, because on the occasions I have connected wireless speakers to my iPhones this has never happened.

CarPlay solves some of these problems and is maybe not perfect, but generally a far saner UX experience than what car companies have managed to cook up over the years.

I would assume similar things are true for Android Auto. Like, not perfect, but far saner than whatever the heck the UX wizards at Toyota brewed up.

You’ve been able to delete the Music app for a while. If the U2 album is the first thing to play, it sounds like you may not use the Music app anyway.

Just delete it and problem solved (though agree with the general rage caused by this promotion).

For what is worth, the same is for android. Whoever thought that changing volume should trigger "play" didn't actually test it.

I thought Audible was a virus, I can't shut it down or stop it and whatever I do, it starts playing

That’s not actually Android, or iOS. It’s the car audio system sending the Play command.

Oh I see, that's terrible

In the Audible settings (and i think in your OS) "continue playback after connecting headphones". Or just uninstall the app if you dont use it.

Oh, I am sure they did test it alright. With a Grinch smile.

That's so hilarious considering you've probably been putting up with that for years and years while there's a ton of solutions. Here's a fun fact about U2: If Bono himself is in his own car driving around and it comes on he has to change the channel. Doesn't like hearing his own voice (Not macho enough), nor the band name. [1] I also heard the same thing about Phil Collins.

[1] https://www.thedailybeast.com/bono-says-he-switches-the-radi...

I have an iPhone SE (1st gen) and a 50 dollar bluetooth enabled radio in my car. It works flawlessly every time, I turn on ignition, the radio connects with my phone and I can hit play. When I turn off ignition the current song is paused and the radio disconnects.

That's an iPhone problem. All our Androids (OnePlus, Google, Samsung, LG) have been connecting perfectly well to my TomTom navigator. Only my iPhone Xs refuses to connect. It's a well documented problem with iPhones and TomTom for many years. Similar story with my AirPods which won't connect to my Thinkpad running Linux - while all other BT headphones (Bose, Sony, Anker) do connect.

Also the article seems to primarily refer to Apple products.

My iPhone doesn't have these problems with my nearly-a-decade-old Honda Odyssey's BT stereo system. Neither does my wife's iPhone, nor the couple others we've owned while owning this van. That thing (the stereo / "smart" entertainment system) has got plenty of "how the shit did this pass QC?" quirks, but none relating to its interaction with my phone.

It's the car's fault.

Apple's entire interfacing be those digital or physical are intentionally designed for incompatibility with devices from the not-Apple universe.

I... have not found that to be the case at all (my van's certainly not made by Apple, nor is its stock entertainment system—my BT headphones aren't Apple, my BT keyboards and mice aren't Apple, my monitor and electric piano aren't apple, et c.) but it could be I've just been lucky.

It's possible it's neither:

> but what I know is that I really fucking hate U2.

Back around 2010/2011, AT&T pushed a U2 album to Android phones in an OTA update as a system install, it couldn't be deleted.

You may enjoy this episode of Reply All: https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/76hel39

This is primarily a problem with car manufacturers designing terrible user interfaces.

Audi does a reasonably good job. I wouldn’t buy a Toyota or Ford because they tend to be terrible.

At this point, if a car doesn’t let me default to Car Play automatically, I’m not buying it. And if every time I turn on the car it lectures me about driving safely, I’m really not buying it.

Can you turn BT off and connect via a chord?

That's what I do with my car. Sure it's a little annoying to use a chord rather than using BT but at least you wouldn't have it auto-playing when you start the car.

I have an Android and when we had the BT on the radio on, it would auto-connect to my phone and start playing whatever the last thing I was listening to on Spotify. If I stopped Spotify, my phone's audio output would still remain connected to the radio, even if my gf was connected with her iPhone and the system had switched to iOS CarPlay (the radio had both Android Auto and iOS CarPlay)

We finally figured out we could disable BT via the radio's setting and that solved our problem. We actually prefer connecting via a cable anyways.

I have a Honda and if I plug my iPhone into it's USB port it will auto-play the first song in my Apple Music/iTunes library which for a long time was "A-YO" by Lady Gaga. The opening lyric of "heeerreee we gooo" was amusing and appropriate for a while until it got incredibly annoying once I switched to Spotify.

I think the issue lies somewhere between Honda's implementation of the iPod standard and some weird backwards compatibility the iPhone is providing. When in this "iPod-like" mode I lost functionality like queuing songs via the Play Next option. It just disappeared from the long-press menu on songs.

Anyways I just bought a Bluetooth adapter from Amazon and plugged that into the aux input. Waaaay better

If you use Apple Music, it has the additional benefit of wasting all of your data and battery every time you turn your car on since it streams your entire library on shuffle.

I thought I was clever and could fix this problem by using the iPhone’s “Shortcuts” app “Automation” feature to pause after connecting to the car’s Bluetooth. But for some reason the thing called “automation” requires manual fucking interaction every time. Yes, that’s right you have to click on a prompt to run the “automation” shortcut.

Turns out it’s a limitation of the “on connect to Bluetooth” trigger for “security” yet this isn’t explained anywhere. Because if someone stole my phone and car they might be able to... pause the music? Thanks Apple.

Thank God that I have a car from 1981.

I have exactly he same issue with U2 on Apple Music. Exactly the same song. I think it’s because you get it for free.

Similar happens in my Mazda. No matter what I do, unless the source was actively changed to something like the radio before I shut my car off, as soon as I turn on the ignition it starts force playing a random song on my iPhone , Usually at a painfully high volume. Apple has bloomed Mazda and Mazda have found Apple.

It always tends to be a race between the Bluetooth connection in my ability to turn the volume down before it plays; even when it’s stopped, the moment I take a phone call it starts playing at maximum volume again after ending the call.

Not sure which version of the entertainment system you have but on my 2016 Mazda 3, it will try and play the last song you had playing on your phone. If it can't get the song to play it will then default to the other last audio device i.e. radio, XM, CD.

You should have separate volumes for music, navigation and hands-free in the entertainment system. Also, you can mute the sound using the volume knob while the warning text is displayed during key on.

My current solution is to make sure my CD player is the other last used device so that if the BT connection fails, I get sweet sweet Baroque music instead of FM blaring.

Nowadays you can delete (really, hide), the U2 album. If you delete all remaining music in iTunes, then the U2 album gets restored, and you have to re-delete it.

Other problems:

  - the darned thing is eager to connect
  
    My wife gets in the car to go somewhere,
    turns it on, my phone connects, and I lose
    audio / she steals my audio.
  
  - the darned thing connects even if the car's
    audio is off
  
    get in, use a maps app, can't hear anything,
    ohhh, right!
  
  - carplay uses wifi, iphone fails to route
    properly
  
    can't use carplay
  
  - anyways, carplay is super sensitive to EM
    noise
  
    be me, be driving w/ navigation on, go through
    high-traffic, EM noisy area, lose navigation
    -- distracting!  dangerous!

Solution:

  - refuse to connect to the car's wifi
  
  - that means no carplay
  
  - that means no distractions
  
  - delete the U2 album
  
  - delete it harder
  
  - turn off bluetooth every morning
  
  - that means no more stolen audio when
    someone drives the family cars

> but what I know is that I really fucking hate U2.

I can't imagine not hating U2.

I also had similar problems with iPhone and BT. Before it worked very good with an Android. What I've learned over time is that apple seems ti sabotage anything that is not apple. I had connection problems with my car, with my Sony BT headphones, with portable speaker. Alk that went away as I switched back to android.

I guess you're right. My bluetooth experience is Macbook, iPhone, Apple keyboard, Apple mouse and Apple headphones. Everything works extremely well. The thing that I like most is power indicator integrated with iOS and macOS. Allows me to charge those things before they run out of power. As long as you stay in the garden, things are smooth.

That's just... the BLE battery level service? AFAICT Windows does the same thing when you connect a BLE device that reports a battery.

I have no idea, I've read reviews from some bluetooth mouse and reviewer mentioned that macOS does not display its battery level. I thought that it's proprietary.

It is kinda funny, it was this behavior among others that made me switch from android to an iphone. I got so tired of BT shenanigans.

I do feel sympathy for the people still having trouble, but mine has been flawless. I do not, however, drive a Lexus.

My cars are all older, but my Android pairs up with a Kia Sportage almost immediately after starting the car. My wife's iPhone 11 sometimes takes several minutes. She ended up getting an adapter to connect audio to the 3.5mm jack.

That’s a hilarious writeup.

My car starts blasting the FM radio if I don’t plug my iPhone in. I have never and will never willingly listen to FM radio, and yet, Ford has decided that it must be played at full volume an uncertain interval after the car is started. It’s caused me enough anxiety that I’ll be buying a different car next time.

That sucks. For what it's worth, "old-school" Toyota headunits with Bluetooth seem to work quite well (for Bluetooth). The ones that came with graphics/more complex CPUs seem to have gone downhill.

You can try to install an older model OEM headunit in your car to see if that fixes your Bluetooth. Certain models had really decent sound, are cheap when found used online, and should have the same connectors in the back (depending on speaker options). Here's an example of replacing your headunit: https://thetrackahead.com/projects/2003-toyota-4runner/the-u...

Also, I think Auto-play is a setting in the headunit, in mine anyway. If not, your phone may have a setting for it.

I had to laugh so hard at this as I’m literally sitting in my Tesla listening to Songs of Innocence that autoplayed on my iPhone without my explicit consent for exactly the reason you mention. I swear I have Stockholm Syndrome because the album that Apple forced my to download is slowly growing on me.

This happens to me every time I enter my car while on a Zoom call; the bluetooth or even the hardwired headset would switch to the car speakers and the call gets unmuted. I need to scramble to mute the call while my daughter is screaming at the back. Can't get it to work.

Would love if CarPlay would just work constantly. On my Ford remote start results in it not working 50% of the time. Regular start fails 10% of the time.

Solution is turn car off for 10 minutes or so. I assume some capacitor has to drain fully.

This is apparently just a known bug.

Not quite as bad, but my Subaru is similar. If I'm in the car with my phone when it turns on it connects immediately almost every time.

If I remote start the car and then go out to it it probably connects about 1/5 times. Another 1/5 I can go into the bluetooth settings and manually initiate the connection and it'll work. But a full 60% of the time I have to turn the entire car off and on again for the bluetooth to finally sort its shit out. Thankfully no 10 minute wait necessary.

My mom's Subaru... has that god awful 15 inch monitor in the middle of the dash. Every time a phone call comes in, the music starts playing WHILE ON THE PHONE CALL.

And I thought, wow, this huge-ass monitor will be awesome for Android Auto and CarPlay. NOPE, only like 1/3 of the screen gets used for CarPlay. This little tiny 7 inch section of the screen. Total joke these infotainment systems are. Give me back my goddamn double-din hole in the dashboard!

> it shows me a couple of half-naked shaved guys hugging each other

Well, since nobody has ever read the spec in its entirety, it's completely possible that those guys are actually part of the specification, somewhere around page 5000 or so.

This is a weird one. I also have a Lexus, but from the year before they put carplay in. I did an aftermarket carplay upgrade, and I've never had any sort of issue like this with Bluetooth on my wife's iphone before...

I thought your anecdote was satire until the very last word. That was a great ride.

I have a 2010 Toyota Prius, and I've intermittently had the exact same problem. Except my song was "Oogum Boogum" - fortunately it was the Alex Chilton version which I still like.

My latest struggle is that my phone now plays audio at 50% speed through my cars bluetooth. Spotify, Youtube, etc - it doesn't matter. It seems to play 50% speed super low pitch for about a second and then skip forward in the audio stream about a second. The only thing that remedies this is to reboot my car.

Wow definitely bringing back repressed memories for me - my audi s8 for whatever reason would refuse to stream via a2dp unless I had some music actually on the phone, in which case it would auto play said music after some random delay. So my brilliant solution was a 5 second silent mp3 loaded on my phone - it would keep the bt gods happy and i could switch to a2dp at my leisure. This was perfect, until someone decided to force deploy the same half naked men on my phone.

It‘s nearly as good as my story. I‘m walking with airpods past my car. The car detects my keys and turns on bluetooth, iPhone connects and thinks it's better to send audio to my car instead of the airpods in my ears. A long and painful connection loss is the result while I walk away and hope that my airpods reconnect. There is no way to set a presedence or similar. These days it‘s even better, the iPhone also switches to car mode and forces me to disable it first.

infotainment systems built by car manufacturers are just absolutely dreadful from an end user perspective. I have had a similar experience in the past (albeit much less of an annoyance) but was fixed 3 years later in a firmware update while randomly visiting the dealership for warranty items.

android auto/apple car play are an absolute dream to use on the other hand. If I buy another car, it will be a must have (rather than an aftermarket accessory)

James Keelaghan will take priority over U2. Ever time I step into my 2014 Hyundai Elantra I am greeted with Canadian folk music. Definitely a step up.

My girlfriend's phone automatically resumes in the middle of a podcast. Same spot, same podcast, every time. I had no idea how lucky we are.

Right? I thought it was annoying that No Such Thing as a Fish kicked on into the exact same spot every time I went for a drive. But that's a million times better than anything by U2 or whatever Songs of Innocence is.

This is one of those stories you read where you thought it was just you but then realize it’s happening to a bunch of people

It's definitely a Lexus problem. In a ford I think it just continues playing whatever the last played song was.

I also put songs on my iphone instead of using apple music, so I suppose it could be an issue with that service although idk why it would behave way differently from playing local files.

Only in fords with sync 3 or later. sync 2 is garbage

We had the same problem in our 2016 Outback until the head unit died. The only thing we really miss about it is the backup camera; but we can live without that, and apparently the stereo, as a fair price for being free of bluetooth audio hell.

Not sure if it matters, but many aftermarket head units can have the reversing camera connected to restore factory functionality, I believe the average HN reader could do this.

Edit: https://motoristcare.com/how-to-connect-backup-camera-to-hea...

Is a pretty good example on how to complete this.

Thanks for the tip!

Tip: remove the Apple Music app from your iPhone and it won't play anything.

On my old car, deleting the music app prevented the shitty radio from detecting that my “iPod” (aka iPhone) was even connected, so I had to have the Music app installed even if I wanted to play Spotify.

this EXACT thing happens on my toyota but it's even more annoying because i'll be using my phone and we stop for gas and then when we turn the car back on U2 starts playing from my wife's phone

Same thing happens in my GFs Prius... So annoying we refer to it as an "aural assault". I can't help but think U2's release strategy was really negative publicity for them in the long run.

I'm not sure if comedy was the intent here, but I laughed a lot.

I ended up uninstalling Apple Music because it would similarly play the same song (I forget what it was) at surprising times.

Spotify doesn't give me the same problem.

This continues to happen in our 2012 Toyota Prius. U2 song “California” from the Sounds of Innocence soundtrack. Don’t remember ever downloading it.

My android didn’t have this problem. When i switched to iPhone it did. A quick Google search will give you similar results.

I believe this is in Apple problem.

I ended up just uninstalling Apple Music so that music wouldn't autoplay in my Prius. Absolutely ridiculous that that was the only way.

I guess you've gotta ask yourself... cui Bono?

Buy or load a $0.99 silent song that starts with the letter A and you won’t have this problem any more.

The iPhone forces Apple Music to self-start if nothing else is using the speaker when you auto-connect with a car Bluetooth system.

Kind of like how Windows 10 forces you to use Microsoft Edge as a pdf viewer no matter how many times you switch to Adobe or how many settings you change.

Apple doesn't want you to forget about Apple Music.

> auto-magically restores itself somehow iCloud. Apple Music needs something to play.

I have never, not once ever, wanted something to autoplay when a bluetooth device connected.

> but what I know is that I really fucking hate U2.

I bet your comment has hundreds of upvotes already.

My car does this too when I plug my phone into USB, it starts playing the first song alphabetically no matter what. I became so sick of this I just have a long empty track with tildes in the name in my library. I would assume bluetooth would do the same but my car's bluetooth has been off since it came out of the facotory and I will never turn it on.

Another obnoxious design is if i want to start a playlist I can't just start playing it - It gives me the playlist sorted alphatically. Once i start playing a track it then sorts them by playlist order. Literally the point of a playlist is the order which you choose your songs to be in. Same solution works, put a short empty file with a tilde, 0 or underscore. So when I pick a playlist I just have to press enter twice and not deal with the alphabetically sorted list.

This trick also works when i try to navigate with google maps and my phone is plugged into usb. I wont get the navigation voice if a music track is NOT playing - again I go to my silent track and play it in order to get the navigation voice when my phone plugged into USB

>but what I know is that I really fucking hate U2.

We can agree on that!

The image you're taking about is the cover art for that album, right?

It's album art for an album he never wanted though. Apple did a stunt some years back where they celebrated the launch of a new U2 album by automatically putting that album on everyone's iPhones. For many people, it's the only music they have in the stock Music app, so it's what gets played when nothing else is currently playing.

Yes...

A likely story. This is a safe place pal, we’re all friends here..

I don't think it's intended to be homophobic. The album art is just really cringey.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songs_of_Innocence_(U2_album...

Alright, having seen it, fair enough.

What's 'cringey' about it?

The way it is.

Out of that whole post, you landed on homophobia as a reasonable thing to call out?

what?

what the hell did I just read... but yes Apple's implementation of Bluetooth is quite subpar compared to most peers, even though not sure if Lexus is 100% innocent here

I think the blame has to lie with Lexus. My current phone is an iPhone and my previous phone was a Pixel and both work perfectly in my Subaru, although the head unit was replaced 3 times because it was triggering some type of SOS signal to Subaru.

Frankly, I've had fewer BT issues with my iPhone than I had with my Android phone, but the Android was from three years ago and I think things have probably improved since then.

I haven't driven for a few years but my iPhone 4 always used to connect and work with my Peugeot 307 perfectly.

Everyone in this thread who is complaining has either a Lexus or a Toyota (who owns Lexus) so it’s obviously a problem with some version of their infotainment system. The U2 thing was obviously an Apple issue.

Not sure why they don’t use CarPlay but maybe some people prefer Bluetooth.

I was in a Volkswagen rental last week and the Carplay integration was a disaster. 50% of the time, attempting to play a song on spotify would crash Carplay. It would refuse to work again (or hey, crash again) until you'd left the car off for a lengthy amount of time. Presumably the car turns off the infotainment system at some point, so this is a reboot, but there was no way to reboot manually... So it would remain broken for the drive.

Seems like manufacturers aren't integrating particularly robust systems on the average

I've owned a VW for 6 years and Carplay has always worked flawlessly.

I think CarPlay (both wired and wireless versions) requires Bluetooth.

I’ve never used a wireless version of CarPlay, I always plugged it in which worked reliably in every modern budget car I’ve rented (Toyota included).

If you consider Apples to be sub par. What’s your standard for decent?

I’ve never had any BT issues with Apple stuff. And most of the other things I own have terrible BT implementations. But maybe because I can’t tell how to check for a good implementation?

Devil's advocate: Couldn't Apple's BT implementation be bad but still work well with itself?

An Apple problem. Their car connectivity follows the idea that configuration is evil and there's only one way to do a thing.

This isn't correct. Apple Car Play does not play anything automatically on start. It's the Lexus that is telling the device to begin playing music.

If you don't use Apple Music, it'll pick the only album you have -- which for many people is the U2 album Apple added to everyone's library for free many years ago.

I stand corrected but also want to note that I've seen many car models do this.