> should apply equally to the workplace as in the home, no?
Probably. You should bring it up with your boss.
If I take off my shoes but some of my coworkers still track icky crap in, then it is worse for me than if we all uniformly kept our outdoor shoes on.
One option is to have some office shoes or sandals, which will also help protect from culinary mistakes in the break-room.
In India, when the dust kills computers by clogging fans, you'll see workplaces with computers have a "leave your shoes outside" board. I'm not sure what happens today, but this was true when I lived there.
That's mostly because everyone coming in is usually spent the last half mile on foot and the shoes will basically flake-off indoors in the lowered humidity.
Also, for some reason my dentist's office has a "employees must change into shoes" notice, suspiciously in the bay area.
Maybe they had some contamination issues ("work shoes" that could be santized properly?) or maybe they had employees wear sandals into the office & they had to enforce the rule after someone dropped a sharp on a toe?
I do, and I switch to to my Birkenstocks at work, as my feet can breathe way better in them. Way more comfy, and it also gives my sneakers an ~8h rest to stay smell-free and cool until I have to go home and put them back on. Continuously wearing the same pair of sneakers about 10h per day is .. not great. My feet would be in a sweat broth.
People who always wear shoes all day every day think tend to think that feet are gross. And that's because their feet are disgusting, and they project that onto everybody else.
They explicitly weren't talking about you.
My main reasoning is reducing cleaning effort on my end. If the office were to have a no shoes rule I'd be walking around in socks or barefoot as long as others do.
Sharing foot bacteria with my coworkers is also a different ballgame than sharing it with my wife and kid. The family is already sharing quite a bit of bacteria so what's a bit of foot stuff.
No, because I consider the office to be a shared public space, and none of the people working in the office actually live there. Office is not my personal space, it is a transient area.
The place I worked at before also had a "shoes required" rule, but I don't know why. My assumption is that someone had stinky feet at some point.
At the office? It's about 50/50. Some people work in their socks, some have indoor-slippers.
In my previous two companies I'd take my shoes off every day when entering the office, leaving them in the handy shoe-racks near the entrance.
In my current job I admit I tend to keep them on, but that's largely because I'm smoking more than usually and putting my boots back on and off multiple times gets annoying in an office environment.
If I'm watching a show and I need to get up to do something, I'll put my shoes back on.
So I identify a lot more with Mister Rogers' opening show routine now.
The world's a gross place. I know it's unavoidable for some (e.g. OCD) but by and large, I tend to think people spend an inordinate amount of time pursuing an unreasonable level of cleanliness.
A cabinet is often enough to keep the shoes from the puppy - just borrow it from somewhere else. The puppy won't be a puppy forever.
It's so annoying to "suit up" for the sake of my innocent and unsuspecting children just so I can grab a glass of water and avoid assaulting them with my hideous form.
The missus on the other hand, well she's on her own.
This seems to be a very cultural thing too... growing up in Europe I saw my parents/grandparents/aunt/uncle naked plenty of times while I was at home or staying over with my cousins. Nudity around family was normal and expected.
This led to being more accepting of ones own body as well and not necessarily seeing nudity as intrinsically linked to "bad".
My friend was eating cereal at the table and blew it everywhere upon the sight. Good times.
On more than one late night, he was forced to come and whisper yell at me and my cousins along with whatever friends happened to be there as well to quiet down. Anyone who didn't live there found it hilarious to no end. It only served to energize us, rather than the intended calming effect.
At 10 it was pretty difficult to take seriously anyone with wild bed hair and a bare ass, or cartoonish underwear for that matter.
I still giggle 25 years later picturing his angry silhouette sauntering away mumbling under his breath.
I don't really have an issue with my own body and do everything I can to instill body positivity within my kids. On the other hand, I think it's important to be considerate of their wishes, and recognize while it's perfectly natural (i.e. not "bad"), that doesn't mean it's pleasant. I'm American after all... lots of lumps, loose skin, and hair where it doesn't make much sense :)
I am slightly scarred by memories of the sudden and unexpected emergence of a nude parent.
It is not like Europe is a "same thing".
Common habits in Finland or Sweden (say) are very different from (still say) Italy or Spain.
I used to be a denim jeans fan, now I’m at a stage where I don’t switch from sweatpants when I go outside.
Shoes on carpet are always icky, though.
Yeah go and track slush and salt on the wooden floors, will you?
Second northern locations tend to have properly insulated and heated indoors, rugs, possibly floor heating, … when the cold is common it’s easier to spend more on heating and comfort. For instance in Japan central heating is only common in Hokkaido, maybe also Aomori.
> that doesn’t mean being barefoot.
It does if you're at someone else's place. or in your socks, which is roughly the same.
> northern locations tend to have properly insulated and heated indoors, rugs, possibly floor heating
That is far from the norm in my part of the US.
Don't get me wrong, if I'm a guest and asked to remove my shoes, of course I do! And without comment. But it does make for uncomfortably cold feet in the winter.
After that, I moved to a few large cities on both coasts(and been to plenty others), and I don't remember visiting more than one or two households where wearing shoes inside was ok. The only exception to this was when someone was hosting a large houseparty, in which case wearing shoes inside was expected about half the time (you wouldn't want your feet to make contact with whatever could be on the floor at some of those, such as occasionally spilled liquor).
It's ultra common in many european countries. I've got one friend where the rule at his house his "shoes off" but most others keep their shoes inside.
It's also highly common for people living in houses to have a "shoes on inside, but only on the ground floor" and shoes off upstairs.
So I guess YMMV.
I (n=1) don’t wear outdoor shoes at home but I’ll allow my guests to keep them. I’ll clean when they’ll leave.
When I’m at home I can wear slippers but my guests can’t so I allow them to keep their shoes.
Scandinavia, Germany and down to the metiterranean and everything east of incl. Croatia I think it's all shoes off?
IME it's not common in european countries but guests tend to not be required (though it's usually appreciated), hosts usually won't provide slippers, it's not standard to bring your own (though it's often appreciated), and you won't be required to walk in socks.
Here in the south, the majority of people wont ask visitors to do so.
I assume (as always...) that by "European" you mean "western European", because in Romania you wouldn't be caught dead wearing shoes inside.
(FWIW: midwestern American, I take my shoes off at the door usually but have no problem walking through the house with them if I’m e.g. grabbing something I need or going from the back yard to the basement. We have three dogs who are much dirtier than my shoes are going to be.)
And anyway, have you ever tried to get a dog's paws clean? Like, meaningfully clean?
I have Roombas and I hire a housecleaner once a week. Our house is actually pretty clean in spite of the silly dog.
In some areas, it's a really minor concern.
* Shoes off = don't track mud and dirt inside
* Shoes on = don't expose yourself to insects
And then depending on cultural background they would tend to keep one or the other habit after moving to a different climate norm. The shoe habits predate modern construction, so they may not matter like they used to.
Or, as sibling allready hints at Australia, to many of the most poisonous animals on earth, who live there.
Living the SF Bay Area now, I'd say it's slightly more common to take one's shoes off indoors, but certainly not the rule.
I just generally don't step in disgusting stuff. I don't want it on my shoes, whether or not I'm wearing them indoors. I don't live on a farm. I don't regularly walk across fields or on dirt roads. My shoes are relatively clean, and I don't have wall-to-wall carpet so I don't have to worry about dirtying the carpet so much.
Three men take advantage of a break in a diplomatic council to visit the bathroom. After they are done relieving themselves, the Japanese man fair blasts his hands with water, soaping and rinsing several times. He explains, "In my country, we hold ourselves to high hygenic standards. I try to remain as clean as possible." The Iranian man soaps and rinses quickly, using a minimal amount. He says, "In my country, we are taught to conserve our resources. We must not waste the blessing we have been given." The American does not even look at the line of faucets, casually saying over his shoulder as he leaves the room, "My dad taught me not to piss on my hands."
It's an oddly sensitive topic, though. I've seen people get offended at being asked, and I've seen people get offended because guests didn't automatically take their shoes off without being asked.
Weirdness all around.
> My shoes are relatively clean
I hate to break it to you but your shoes are filthy.
Wearing my shoes inside is very normal to me. In my current place I have to take my shoes off, so I can adapt, but it still isn't normal to me.
Here’s Why I’ll Be Keeping My Shoes on in Your Shoeless Home
https://www.wsj.com/articles/heres-why-ill-be-keeping-my-sho...
Or archive version
> cultural reasons for removing shoes are respected though
"I will show no respect for your decisions regarding your personal space, but only if that doesn't make me look bad"
...And of course, when you read a bit further, you realize that this kind of person doesn't understand the decision because there ought to be some kind of domestic fixing their mess.
> Why don’t I just leave my shoes on and give you the amount of money [...] You can use it to hire a housecleaner to mop up after my shoe detritus.
Why are you assuming that your guests’ shoes are dirtier than your floors?
They believe a floor mat would suffice and it's rude to expect people to get their socks or bare feet dirty from the floor.
Maybe slippers are the answer?
One party is entering another party's home. If you're not comfortable with rules inside that home, then don't enter that home.
100% agree that whether your own home is shoeless or not is a personal and cultural preference and decision. More power to you. But if I am entering your home, then your rules prevail.
Since it is their house, they, and only they, get to decide the rules about shoes allowed inside or not.
Why is that guest assuming that their opinions are more important than the overwhelmingly accepted idea that people get to set their own home's rules?
> Maybe slippers are the answer?
The author explains in no ambiguous terms that they won't settle for slippers.
Are my guests regularly cleaning the bottoms of their shoe the way I regularly clean my floors? (Almost certainly not, because why would you?)
Indeed. And it's just plain being a bad guest. When you're a guest at someone's house, honoring their wishes about things like this is a duty. It's showing them respect.
(In a pretty antagonistic, nasty way, too, but them's the breaks when you want to write op-ed pieces and get attention :-/ )
You need a pair of shoes at every exit and you need to enter the way you last exited and you need to set whatever you're carrying down to put your shoes on and take them off all the time. Plus your guests who don't have a shoe at every doorway end up cold inside or walking around in their socks outside, and it's not like I can get the dog to wash her feet at the door... It's just too much.
Down is where the dirt goes.
How many exits do you have? Most houses have only one front entrance. All other exits lead to the deck or garden, where people just go barefoot.
Maybe I'd feel differently if it were barefoot temp year-round, but that's pretty much just a summer thing here. Plus it's kind of irresponsible to heat you house to barefoot-friendly temps so now you've gotta have slippers for everyone...
Only time I'm taking my shoes off is when I'm in bed or in the shower. It's just too dangerous to go barefoot. <grin>
http://foottalk.blogspot.com/2017/12/a-very-short-history-of...
Where I was born in a European country, it was positively unthinkable. Nobody ever wore outside shoes inside. In fact, my grandma would be upset if I set in my daily jeans upon my bed - jeans that set in school seat, street car seat, benches, dirt, etc, should not be in contact with where I'll sleep.
In USA and Canada, it seems to largely be an instinct to say "Don't take off your shoes, please!" out of politeness.
I think there are other aspects too, though they get fuzzier.
In my country/childhood, kids were discouraged from playing on the floor in unfamiliar places. I observe less of that in Canada. Most dogs were "outdoor animals", whereas here dogs are pervasively inside. Many people sleep with dogs in their bed!! Completely crazy to me and completely normal to my Canadian wife :-)
This. And not only where you sleep. Public transport seats or even chairs that were used by many, many people over the years are just yuck. Same with door handles (i so hate the Americanbones - you can't use your elbow or wrist to push them!), public transport, handrails, ATM pinpads...
At what point do you come to the terms with our inability to eliminate all germs and get on with life? I apologize if it's a condition and not just a preference.
Laugh all you want, just observe the typical shiny keycaps of most people's keyboards. You won't find those on mine, i wash hands frequently.
Btw: i bet quite some of you who are laughing about my 'regulations' just started to wash hands and wear masks because the CDC etc. told you so, and saw no issues with it.
Just don't have an desire to sit in seats where bums and people with god-knows-what conditions have been, or hold onto rails touched by people scratching their butt. Washing hands frequently, espeially after handling cash + followed by having a snack. Didn't your parents teach you that?
Not having issues with dirt etc., if it is MY dirt. How many strangers to you willingly exchange frsh or dried bodily fluids with?
Also a reason i have absolutely no intention to ever visit India, if i don't have to for business reasons. And i've walked Ethopian streets.
I once triggered a pretty severe allergic reaction from my partner because of the pollen and dust I unintentionally brought inside after working out in the yard all day.
We make an educated guess, try to collect data in a study that is hopefully a bit controlled, then paint a picture of what we think it means and why things happened (or didn't happen).
And if not, a bit of exposure to germs is fine.
Most diseases are hand and air transmitted.
And in my anecdotal experience germ freaks are more suck then dirty people. But maybe I'm just biased.
When I'd mop the rest of the condo with those disposable Swiffer mop pads, the mop pads would only get a little dingy, but when I'd mop the one specific part of the entryway where we wore shoes, the mop pads would instantly turn dark grey, almost black.
No shoes in the house. Ever!!!
As a Canadian, I think every household I've been in you take your shoes off at the door. Experience limited to Ontario and every province east of it.
In that case I'll chip in with my experience with every province west of it: it's the same. No shoes inside - ffs the prairies have snow on the ground half the year.
Your grandma and my mom would have gotten along.
Yes, but then you take them off anyways, out of politeness.
> but then you take them off anyways, out of politeness
...as is the Canadian way
Also people who come from wet places to dry places will still not want anyone wearing shoes at their homes.
In the America I grew up in, dogs were almost always outdoor animals, and people did NOT sleep with them (how gross).
That changed somehow in the last 20 years. Now it seems like half of Americans sleep with a dog.
That whole thing seems to beg some uncomfortable questions. I mean yes, I'm of WV descent but that isn't how we get our pets.
I am a Millennial from Europe, and I am well acquainted with the alienation of my generation, but the dog mommy thing doesn't exist in the country I'm from, and sounds something a suburban mom in her 40s would say. It makes me cringe.
I had dogs and cats growing up, and I considered my "mates" or friends rather than my children. They lived in the house, able to come and go outside, but were absolutely forbidden from sleeping on beds (except cats when the beds are empty because they don't care) or from soliciting food at the table while we were eating.
This reminds me of some sci-fi movies I think, such as "Invasion of the Body Snatchers". Also cults.
99% of indoor surfaces (and some outdoor areas too) are tile floors, or polished concrete/granite/terrazio. These are really easy to keep clean by just sweeping for 5 minutes. The few carpets I've seen were always really gross. No way I'm taking off my shoes to walk on that!
We don't wear shoes/sandals or socks indoors overall. It's normal to walk barefoot, even at many workplaces.
Socks are a weird thing that we wear to travel somewhere cold, or if we have to wear shoes for some reason (very formal events or workplaces, or for safety). Some people wear socks to sleep.
Sometimes we have a separate set of sandals to wear in the bathroom. You take those off before entering the rest of the house.
The other use of sandals is a form of low-damage ammunition for parental authorities to launch at you. We have a lot of memes about this.
I'm in Canada and this is true, but I've found that this is usually said when I'm already far enough into taking my shoes off that it would be too weird to go "alright then" and put them back on. I also find it awkward to keep my shoes on in someone else's house. As if I'm some sort of special guest with special privileges that allow me to bring dirt into their house, while the owner of the house clearly isn't wearing outside shoes. I would actually much prefer someone saying "please take your shoes off", and avoid the whole awkward and illogical politeness ritual.
so you think people should just never walk barefoot outside on unpaved surfaces, the way our ancestors evolved to, where nature exists in every state between birth and death?
(you don't need to repeat any part of your argument, trust me, I get it, just pointing out the obvious problem with it)
And especially not pointy closed toe modern ones.
[0] https://www.joe-nimble.com/media/image/45/e8/7b/conventional...
I put it with: airplane seat reclining, casual nudity, hanging clothes from windows, just about anything sexual,...
I should have just rented.
Maybe they don't walk as much on average, but shoes get dirty no matter what country you're in.
1) Wipe hands with paper towels after eating. Hands are still greasy, grease finds its way all over the house, door knobs, tap handles, keyboards, mice.
2) Use toilet paper. Completely unacceptable to use water. It leads to toilet paper shortages and crusty bottoms (less crusty with toilet paper), but nobody has a clue that an alternative is available and works better. [1]
3) Shoes inside, even on bed. You can see this on all the shows/movies. Third world has footwear(shoe/flipflops) outside, wash feet when you come inside. Or indoor slippers.
But I find that dirt (and outside shoes) is usually fine, you will find more dangerous bacteria in door knobs, coins, etc. Basically everything your hand touches has a higher risk of getting you sick.
That doesn't hide the fact that having a dirty floor looks gross though, from a aesthetic standpoint
While I do take my shoes off in my hall and wear socks in doors all the time, I think the no shoes thing has entered meme territory.
Not making excuses but when you have to be in and out your house many times a day, it gets quite annoying having to take your shoes off only to put it back on a few minutes later. The real animals are people who go to bed with their shoes on. Inexcusable that.
I suppose the thought process is yes those shoes that have been in dirt and who knows what else are being walked through the house, so what? The house gets vacuumed and mopped regularly.
Across the ditch it’s not uncommon for the opposite to be true.
No shoes - supermarket, shops, mall, hospital (!), etc. Bare feet is the way to go in summer but my personal line is drawn a little earlier than many.
Presumably these people have all the same problems as the ‘always shoes’ people.
Then again, as a kid my friends and I ran around barefoot most of the time outside of school hours. To this day, I don’t really like wearing shoes or socks, and would happily walk around barefoot if socially acceptable.
Or maybe it’s places without winter?
I’m sure if I go and experience it something will click.
Also, hard floors are bad for your feet if you go barefoot. I do have indoor-only shoes that I wear fairly often, though like I said, I don't stress too much about it. Between the dog and the cats with their litter boxes, shoe-borne germs are pretty far down my list.
citation needed.
so do they keep shoes on all day? doesn't it get sweaty, itchy, etc...
That being said, conditions that you are used to will influence whether or not you believe shoes have to be changed between outside and inside.
what are you even talking about? have you ever walked to the far side of the parking lot you live in the middle of?
Also, not changing socks means now random people leave feet sweat and nastiness all over the house floor.
I find it more strange that people wear outside shoes inside. The same shoes that go on dirt, mud, who knows what else are used to walk on your floors and carpets.
Taking your shoes off at the door prevents a lot of dirt/who-knows-what from entering the house.