Me, or anybody who needs a no-fuss, one-shot, buy-and-use-it-till-it-dies type of consumer.

I don't care about changing switches. I don't care about DIY. While I'm perfectly capable, I don't want to spend time on that. I want something works well, and equipped with a well known 2.4GHz receiver which can work with any OS, incl. firmware updates.

I need to do my daily work with it. Not fiddle with keys, caps, boards, firmware and soldering iron.

I'll be seriously considering this. If it's adequately close to MX Browns, I'll get one.

Didn't mean to go off on such a rant, but if helps even one person choose a better board than a Logitech, I'd say it was worth it. As someone who's used a Logitech board daily for 6 years, I'd recommend looking elsewhere - especially for the money.

>If it's adequately close to MX Browns, I'll get one.

In my experience with Logitech switches, you will be disappointed. I own boards with both Romer-G Browns and Blues. I kid you not that I've felt linear switches that had more tactility than either of these switches produce.

[1] https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/razer-bug-let...

1) Bluetooth

2) Multi-device support/switching (3 minimum)

3) Wired-use operation as a backup

4) Mechanical switches

BUT ALSO:

5) Not to have to give a shit about my keyboard, or spend much time on it, and ideally not spend much money, either

I settled on a Keychron and it's been really good for my purposes. It's a solid keyboard for someone who wants an entirely OK mechanical keyboard for non-bank-breaking prices.

I have had exactly two problems with it, one resolved:

1) It liked to "go to sleep" way too fast, then took 3-5 seconds to wake up and reconnect. A quick look at the manual showed me how to turn that off with some magic key combos. It lasts days on a charge regardless, so it was purely an annoyance. Anyway, that's resolved.

2) The stupid l33t g4m3r d00d light patterns it can do. This was one of the most subdued mechanical keyboards I could find (WHY do so many have this crap?!), and it still has this damn "feature". You can set it to steady, low, always-on light, which is the only thing I ever want, but there's a button at the top right corner that's easy to brush by accident which causes it to cycle to the next light pattern. You then have to hit it like 20 times to get back to "stop trying to look like fucking Las Vegas" mode. I'd have paid an extra $10 to not have this "feature". Just remove the whole damn thing, set it permanently to steady-light, and keep the dim/bright keys for it only (which can also be used to turn it to zero, so, off). I manage to screw this up about once every couple weeks. It's annoying, but not enough to get me to buy a different, probably more expensive, keyboard.

(seriously, though, thanks for the tip)

Edit: It's not in the K2 manual but there is a shortcut, FN + L + lightbulb key that works to lock it -

https://www.keychron.com/pages/k2-user-manual

https://keychronsupport.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360052...

Now, it's my ideal keyboard

The stock keycaps are nice enough but I replaced mine with the Drop MT3 Dasher caps only because I'm a crusty old ex-Data General engineer looking for a nostalgia kick :).

All in all it's a real nice keyboard. It's also absolutely solid in construction with a metal frame and you could easily do someone quite serious (defensive) GBH with it.

I'm not sure why anyone would buy the Logitech in question, not being able to swap key switches these days on a $100+ keyboard seems a bit mean, and was a bit of a deal breaker for me when hunting down what is my first customisable mechanical keyboard.

I should also add that mechanical keyboards are in no way a hobby thing for me and I certainly won't be spending hours on end on customisations other than the odd key switch experiment.

You wouldn't happen to know another wireless keyboard with the same layout as the K4, by any chance? It's also ok if it's missing the arrow keys, I just want a keyboard with the numpad but without the Insert/arrow keys block.

This is the one I own and I can't recommend it highly enough: https://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional/

For me, keyboards like Das Keyboard, Alt, Ctrl, etc. are the perfect satisfice: good keyboards, at a price that's not terrible, with a time & research commitment that falls below the level of "hobby". I could easily see the Logitech keyboard fitting into this niche. The only question is how big a niche it is - how many of us are out there who like a nice keyboard, but are lukewarm/meh about soldering?

Just adding effort to add additional keys using capslock.

I think once you're into anything less than 60%, either you literally just type text and use the mouse/touchpad items instead of keyboard shortcuts, or you're more focused in the aesthetic minimalism rather than the functionality.

I don't have to take my hands off the keyboard to do stuff like navigate text simply, pause/mute music (instead my pinky goes to the bottom of the keyboard and all the keys on the other hand change function), my software can all be driven from the "common" keybindings and modifiers like ctrl/alt/win are on my thumbs instead of being offset below my pinkies.

Importantly, i can throw it in my bag with my laptop and use it when i am traveling so there is very little context-switching that has to occur.

None of this really carries over when I boot in to windows, though, and I keep a ten-keyless keyboard around for playing video games.

Maybe if the bag was filled for plane travel that'd be a problem.

That said (author here), I actually use a 65% for daily use. The 40% was too small for me to use comfortably. I could get used to the caps lock for arrow keys and text editing stuff, but having to remember shortcuts to type a semicolon just wasn't for me.

The switches felt great to use (chosen myself), the keycaps were still easily customizable to an office-appropriate yet imo stylish theme, and the default layout was intelligently designed to where most functionality was already within reach of your fingers.

Functionality would be in 'layers'. While they're usually numbered, I think of them as 'Alternate Shift', where normal Shift is 'up 1' (CAPITALS, and !@#$%^), and other layers can be whatever you want, i.e. `Layer2 A` = "{", `Layer2 S` = "}". The layout is set by the (often customizable) firmware.

I stopped using it when I changed to a 100% remote job, but keep it as a display piece.

Even with the browns, in a quiet office full of laptop keyboard users, any mechanical keyboard is going to seem loud. Mechanical keyboards always had the multiple benefits for me of: 1) more like the thing I grew up using, 2) loud enough that maybe they'd prefer I work from home :)

I don't see how this is a fair requirement.

Most people would rather NOT be one 0day RF side-channel attack or bluetooth link key compromise away from someone outside their house with a high-gain antenna grabbing their LUKS or ssh key passphrases.

KeySniffer II is a question of when, not if.

Ended up returning it and going back to my WASD Code keyboard with MX Browns and just getting a different keycap set for it. It's a similar price to the DasKeyboard (and this Logitech one), and for individually backlit keys that seems to be the common price point. Pretty easy to dismantle and clean as well, so I definitely recommend it.

I hadn't realized how much using membrane switch was causing RSI until I switched to mechanical keyboards.

I'm sure someone with a steadier hand could maybe fix it with a soldering iron.

I did see some of the reviews of the newer revisions were less positive than their historical record

You can get a cheaper no-fuss mechanical keyboard from reputable brands with respectable components for far less than this logitech keyboard is being sold.

From the top of my mind, Akko keyboards are quite nice, and most of their products sell for $50 less.

You'd need to be completely, utterly clueless to go to Logitech for a mechanical keyboard. The faintest of Google searches would lead you to established products which are both cheaper and better.

Opened the website. Almost everything out of stock. No other layout besides us_US (most european languages use accented vowels like èòàù). Clown pink and RGB everywhere. Closed the website.

Amazon seems to have no problem stocking up on Akko keyboards. The ones I'm seeing listed as out of stock on Akko's page seem to be low-volume special editions with custom keycaps.

But again, I'm not a sales representative. Anyone interested in mechanical keyboards surely is able to use Google to find decent offers. I doubt Logitech products will feature in anyone's shortlist though.

That all looks... entirely reputable. Absolutely.

Funking naming/branding isn't unheard of in the MK world, considering a large amount of stuff is bought from China and rebranded.

Or, I can say "dad, check out this logitech kb. It's affordable and you can pick how loud you want it to be".

Literally that simple. Start looking at things through the eyes of your parents or grandparents and you start to see how fucking complicated and confusing a lot of this shit is. It's no wonder at all that Logitech is coming out with something simple with streamlined options.

Sometimes people who are deep into things forget about that. You've done 100s of hours of research. You've chosen X Y and Z for reasons. You've built this and that, tried some of those.

Most people's keyboard choice is about 3 minutes in the aisle. Done.

Umm, there are now almost daily threads on HN about how bad Google search has become, especially for product search... So I'd guess many people will be happy about a no-nonsense offering from a somewhat reputable manufacturer like Logitech.

I'm a mechanical keyboard aficionado - I've gone through everything from Das, to Annes, to WhiteFoxes, to Keychrons. (Yes, I did solder some of those...lol).

My current daily driver is a Keychron K6 - but even I am seriously considering this Logitech.

The spec sheet promises a battery life of 10 months (no backlight) - the Keychron K6 is fine - except that the battery life sucks, and it takes 3-4 seconds to wake up from sleep every time.

I'm looking for a QMK wireless keyboard, but they're thin on the ground - and I suspect the battery life would still be terrible.

At the end of the day, companies like Logitech (or Apple) have the time and engineering nous to test things, and have them Just Work. Things like decent battery life, or having fast wake-from-sleep would probably be handled by their engineering teams.

The issue with wireless keyboards and QMK is that Bluetooth is such a messed up protocol and to implement it QMK would realistically have to deal with proprietary binary blobs which they choose not to. I heard there's some work on "custom" 2.4GHz transmission modes but that's not as universal or ubiquitous as Bluetooth is.

Maybe check out ZMK, basically a QMK for wireless keyboards but more opiniated. I'm about to build a wireless corne with it after years on a wired QMK Planck.

Battery life for closed source keyboards made by big companies will always be better because they have the resources to perfectly engineer the hardware and code for every model and the willingness to cut lots of corners in terms of customizability. Same with any other piece of hardware.

Also, sometimes there's noticeable lag when typing on a BT keyboard (I have experience with an older Apple keyboard on an MBP and with a Keychron). I've never had such issues with either of my MS sculpt keyboard or Logitech mice and keyboards (nor with my Logitech lightspeed mice which are amazing, but I realize that's something else).

QMK's bluetooth stack is pretty fucking broken and has limited chipsets it supports. You'll have more luck with https://github.com/jpconstantineau/BlueMicro_BLE or https://github.com/zmkfirmware/zmk

Turn off sleep. There's a key combo to do it (at least, there was on my model). It has such a small effect on battery life that I have no idea why they default to making it go to sleep like every two minutes of inactivity.

I do sometimes look at my mouse that's also bluetooth and runs on a single AA battery for months, and wonder WTF Keychron's doing wrong with power management. Oh well, at least it can work plugged-in, too. And it was cheap.

This is probably the route I'd go for a wireless board. I'd likely choose a keyboard that really has the wireless part down (Logitech is a decent option here, I think - the experience with their receiver is better than Bluetooth for input devices in my experience) and then run it through one of those dongles if I really wanted wireless.

It's still strange to me how companies like Microsoft and Logitech can still regularly produce lemons after, what, 15 years of optical mouse production. It's not like anything fundamentally changes any more, they should have a winning set of virtually perfect devices that cover the entire market with interlocking segments by now.

I guess they're going for the "make it bit shit on purpose so we can sell them another mouse in 2 years" strategy.

Or maybe they just cannot help themselves from penny pinching good products into bad products so continually that you don't even know which are which any more (and you certainly can't tell if the expensive models are actually better or not).

I guess it's good that they're leaving market gaps open for the little guys?

After a couple years of supporting Surface devices, I have very different views in this regard.

Not clueless, just not someone who would Google around for reviews or care to get the absolute best. They go to Best Buy. This is virtually every adult I know over age 40/50 outside of the industry. They'll roll up to Best Buy for a new keyboard, see this and think "cool! Some new type of thing!"

A household brand name like Logitech is significant. They've been making mice almost as long as I've had a computer. This is extremely important to anyone who's been around long enough to have ventured into trying alternatives and eventually come back to the big names for consistency, warranty, return-ability.

Or even a lot of people in their 20s and 30s inside the [programming/IT?] industry.

Some people are fine spending 20% of the time to get 80% of the features and are willing to spend a bit more money to do so.

BUT now I've got more money than time.

So if it comes to my door in 2 days and/or can just be returned.. I don't flinch at $50- 100 premiums.

It's low profile, has replaceable switches, can use a cable or bluetooth, is a fair price and has worked really well.

I haven’t found any wireless mechanical keyboards with a dongle until this Logitech one.

The Bluetooth is... okay. It takes a few seconds to wake up, but it doesn't turn off for about 30 minutes. Battery life has been fine with BT 5.0. I want to say somewhere in the range of a couple weeks? All with backlighting disabled.

USB wireless is a bit of a joke, honestly. I've had it lose signal even just a foot or so away with absolutely nothing (except air) between the dongle and keyboard. I have to have the dongle at about 8" or less to maintain a reliable connection.

Overall, I'd say the keyboard is fantastic for the money. I'm truly wowed by the mechanical keyboards you can get for comparatively very cheap prices these days.

That being said, I still generally trust a company like Logitech to get Bluetooth and RF USB to be less flakey. Sure, other smaller companies get it right too, but I've had to do way more experimentation and messing around in order to find that.

Though if you can do with a wired keyboard, then I wouldn't bother with the Logitech, personally.

On the other hand, I have a wireless logitech with a little trackpad I use for controlling my PC from my couch that's been on the same set of AAA batteries for over a year. So a proper mechanical logitech with a wireless dongle is sort of appealing to me.

Specifically, I bought a set of the Granite DSA keycaps several years ago and always use them on my primary keyboard.

What’s the battery life like, and how fast is the wake up time? (I’m a Mac user in case it matters. )

I use a Kinesis Advantage and USB/DP KVM on my desk, but have switched my spouse and my basement computers over to the Triathlon keyboards and mice (which support hotkey switching among three computers, including mixed Bluetooth and multi-device USB dongle connections). My spouse switches between her work laptop and Macbook without fussing with cables or a KVM and is quite happy with it.

(I bought much cheaper M720 and K850/K780 keyboards on Ebay, but the underlying convention/functionality seems the same and is really slick/cheap for multi-computer usage.)

This actually looks decently low-profile, what are similar reputable brand keyboards that are equal to or less than the height of this keyboard?

Beats me. I do not represent the brand.

I guess worst case scenario you're a keycap set away from any keyboard layout you wish to have.

A cursory search on Google returned plenty of search hits on how to convert keyboards between ANSI and ISO.

Also, apparently there are ANSI+ISO keycap sets on the market.

Anyway, I don't have a dog in the race. Anyone who is on the market for a 150$ keyboard will surely be able to Google stuff that suits their fancy.

That is only relevant as far as picking keycap sets go.

As I've pointed out, there are plenty of ANSI+ISO sets on the market.

Beyond this point, the relevance is zero.

It's a non-issue.

Observe this image of ANSI vs ISO layouts: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F...

Let's say I have an ANSI keybord, and I buy a set of ISO keycaps?

First of all, the enter and shift keys are not going to fit, so let's reuse the keycaps from the ANSI ones. Now we do put in all the keys and... my #/~ key is left over. There is no switch on the keyboard to mount the keycap to. ANSI keyboards do not have the same amount of keys.

Not to mention my \| is not in the right place - the ANSI shift key covers it's proper location, so guess I'm putting an undersized keycap on the top of enter. No amount of rebinding is going to let me have the left half of left shift do one thing and the right half do another.

These ANSI/ISO keycap packs you're thinking of are not indicating they will let you convert one keyboard to another. They just mean they include both shapes of enter keys, both sizes of left shift and \|, and a #~ key which doesn't exist for ANSI keyboards.

I'm not aware of any main Logitech keyboards that support changing the keycaps. I couldn't even find replacement keycap sets for my board when I looked a year ago.

That said why would such a person want a mechanical keyboard but not want to out in the effort to learn about them? I’m guessing it’s for dabblers or people who’ve heard of mechanical keyboards and it’s more an impulse buy than an investment.

(I’ve tuned my own springs by finger so that’s where I stand personally)

Being happy with what I've ended with, I didn't dive deeper into that rabbit hole, because I have more important things to do than tweaking keyboards.

I'm like that. Do my research, pull the trigger once, consider the problem solved and move on.

Having many hats and ambitions limits one's time considerably. I for one only have tonight to be at home at dinner time, incl the weekend.

Sorry for not being able to live up to your standards in the mechanical keyboard realm, however being a sysadmin and programmer, I think I can want a dependable and semi-decent mechanical keyboard. Considering I've grown up with some of them. If you permit, of course.

I bet this category easily outnumbers all massdrop hypebeasts or Cherry switch sommeliers out there.

In the same way that middle-upper class men who want a nice pair of headphones, vaguely remember that "high impedance = good" and know the Sennheiser brand easily outnumber audiophiles.

What I'll say is: I've had both the MX Keys, and the G915. The MX Keys is the baby brother chicklet version of this one. The G915 is Logitech's gaming-grade low-profile mechanical keyboard, using switches that visually look similar to this one. I've had switch failures on both, within 18 months of (reasonably heavy) use; double typing, missed inputs, etc. The only keyboard I've had fail quicker is the MacBook Pro butterfly keyboards; but I have a half dozen which have lasted significantly longer.

A few other paths I'd recommend which are better:

1. Go to Best Buy. I know, old school. Most have a gaming products isle, with keyboards, and a display area with a bunch of them. Try them all out. Try to find one with standard Cherry switches (most have them nowadays, except Logitech and maybe Razer; and they'll advertise it proudly on the box). They'll have RGB and other nonsense, but they're reasonably price competitive and generally solid keyboards. Corsair makes some good ones; I have a Corsair that sees daily use that's gotta be 4-5 years old now, on Cherry MX Red switches.

2. Something like this: https://kbdfans.com/collections/fully-assembled-keyboard. Pre-assembled DIY. You'll probably end up paying a bit more, and even their pre-assembly DIY configurator is, frankly, daunting. But the only thing to really worry about is selecting the right switch brand for you; and YouTube can help a lot, locating videos of people typing on each switch type. For the totally uninclined: Cherry Reds are the classic novice switch (or Silent Reds if you want really low sound, but the Reds themselves are pretty quiet).

Frankly, to me; this isn't a situation where I will argue "all big box brands suck, don't buy a big box". Some of them are pretty good. But Logitech keyboards have really dropped in quality lately; if you're going to go big box, at least don't go Logitech, please.

Any regular Cherry MX keyboard is going to have tall keys, and it is just aweful for programming in general (long key travel makes typing around, and moving arrow keys, harder as it takes more effort).

I have build 2 custom keyboards, and have 2 more prebuild cherry mx keyboards, and I will never buy or work on a regular profile keyboard again. Low profile is are just much better ergonomically, and right now the G915 is one of the best in the market. (but it is pricey)

I'm not a keyboard geek (I don't touch-type, for one thing), and feel you, for the "one-stop shop" thing.

I do have a couple of old Logitech keyboards, collecting dust in a bin, upstairs.

I dunno. It works OK for me (and I use a cheap off-brand USB cable that works fine for me). I keep it plugged in, so I don't really care about wireless or Bluetooth.

Like I said, I am not really fanatical about keyboards. I wanted the RGB backlights, relatively tactile (but not super -I use red keys), and fairly small. I also wanted wired. This is wireless, but runs as wired.

It seems to be a common frame. I think I have seen almost identical port layouts in other brands.

I brought it about a year ago.

Also Keychron had some obscure usb cable requirement, that they could never convey over support emails. You would think that any usbc usbc cable would work for a keyboard, but not the few I had laying around that were longer than the provided one

Just my two cents, I wouldn't buy another Keychron

Maybe their QA has fallen in recent years?

My mk journey went das keyboard > cooler master > leopold > vortex > keychron. I haven't looked for anything different since I got the keychrons.

Long story short: that mechanical keyboard was not the modern incarnation the tanks of years gone by. I am using one based upon Cherry switches at the moment. I don't have enough experience to judge the long term outcome, but my initial research suggests a similar outcome. Most of the hype around modern mechanicals seem to focus upon sound and feel (and, more justifiably, the ability to build your own), rather than quality. If that's the case, I feel that the gradual degradation of cheap keyboards is a more desirable outcome.

Nothing is broken, no led is burnt off or no key has faded.

Being said that the G710+ uses CherryMX Browns which do not tend to die that easily.

Sturdy as heck for a keyboard that cost me 60 euros and I've used thousands of hours.

It's an absolute tank and the ONLY thing I'd give it up for is a mint-condition Model M.

[0]: https://www.eejournal.com/article/ultimate-guide-to-switch-d...

You are putting your security at risk (who knows whether the encryption is secure or whether the Logitech drivers are backdoored), as well as your convenience since you'll need to charge it periodically and there's a good chance you'll forget it (or forgot to buy disposable batteries if that's what it uses) and be completely unable to use the keyboard for a while, and it will have more latency and may even fail to work due to interference; on top of that, you'll pay more for these drawbacks.

You should really only buy a wireless keyboard for very specialized needs where you need to move it around while not also moving the PC with it.

First of all, my threat vector doesn't contain wireless attacks, and we'd have more serious problems if we come to that.

Also, that thing can work probably while being charged, so no fuss. Otherwise, it can charge for a full day's worth of work in 15 minutes, which is just a coffee break. I know it's no advertisement since Sony is doing the same thing on many things for 10 years now?

The devices which are using disposable batteries last for 2-3 years in average, and warn well before they're going to run out of energy. So again, no unexpected power losses in that case.

Wireless keyboards neither have latency or interference issues at least for a decade for the type of work I'm doing. We're not selecting frequencies with DIP switches anymore.

I ended up moving back to wired keyboard though mostly because the wireless one tended to go to sleep and take half a second to a second reconnecting when woken.

I want my desk to be 100% free of clutter and cables and am willing to live with having to recharge devices, paying a premium and am not at all concerned that someone would hack my wireless webcam.

I have a desktop Windows setup (connected directly to monitors, no dock) + laptop-connected-to-the-dock macbook setup, both connected to the same monitors. The two keyboards I use are wireless HHKB Pro Hybrid and wireless Apple Magic Keyboard (along with Apple's dedicated trackpad).

HHKB has an ok battery life, I swap out batteries about once every few weeks or so. The connection is fine, but I have to manually wake it up with a dedicated button after it goes to sleep, and it takes about 5 seconds to connect, and it doesn't always work on the first try. At worst, after another try, it works fine. Initial pairing process was a bit meh, but it wasn't terrible.

But Apple's keyboard is some sort of black magic when it comes to both battery life and connectivity (same with their trackpad tbh). I plug it in to charge maybe once every couple of months, and even then it doesn't get close to being fully drained (usually around 15-20% left by that point). And that's despite me using it for my full-time job. The connectivity is also wildly good. No need to hold a button to wake it up, I just press any key and it connects in a couple of seconds just flawlessly. Initial pairing or switching between different devices is braindead easy too (which I do daily, to switch between my personal and work macbooks). I just connect it to whichever machine I want to use it with using the included cable, then disconnect, and it is automatically wirelessly paired to that machine. It is just remarkable that I have been doing it for almost 2 years now, and not once have I had even a single hiccup.

Using Apple's keyboard was what convinced me to switch my Windows one to wireless as well (had a wired HHKB Pro 2 before that). No wires is just so convenient. And with the only downside being that sometimes my current HHKB sometimes takes 5 seconds to connect after waking up from sleep, it ended up being totally worth it (and with the Apple's MKB, there were zero downsides for me at all).

And I am saying this as someone who used to be all about wired-only mechanical keyboards for years and I still have a few with MX Reds/Browns/Blues sitting in my old equipment box.

Swappable keys aren't exactly a power-use feature. I remove my keycaps every so often to clean them, and swapping a broken switch is basically as easy using the keycap/switch tool that came with my board. It also means I can do a repair for a couple of dollars over buying a whole board. Not to mention I have a bunch of spare switches that came with my board so I can do a repair in a minute.

[1] https://nuphy.com/products/air75

No fuss mechanical keyboard already exist. No need to ditch repairability, etc.

If this is like my other Logitech keyboards, that's about 2.1 years.

It would constantly act like there was dust in the sensor (or so I thought) making erratic movements that could sometimes be reduced with a mouse pad. Finally I did some research and found out that without using their proprietary Windows only driver, the mouse would only operate in the lowest dpi setting.

I immediately drove to the store and bought the cheapest corded Kensington mouse they had, which was like $10 and a 1/10th of what that Logitech piece of shit cost. It was like I had a whole new computer, I spent way too long being idly frustrated with my overpriced mouse.

That was and will remain the last Logitech product I buy

G700 carries its settings on board, so all profiles are working completely with any OS. There was no customization software on Linux when I bought it, but that side also improved with Logitech tool and other projects over the years. G710+ has an out of tree driver, but I didn’t compile it due to laziness.

Logitech is the first company to support UVC class for webcams to enable Linux support. Also they’re the only HID company which supports Linux firmware update daemon as far as I know.

So your perception is not completely correct from my vantage point.

Sorry for being so crude and tasteless.

:)

I'm using a buy-and-use-it-till-it-dies mechanical keyboard that plugs into my USB port[0]. It doesn't need to be charged, won't die on me in the middle of typing, doesn't interfere with any of my Bluetooth / wireless spectrum. It's perfect for someone who's no-fuss.

[0] https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_det...

It is quiet enough that I can type (albeit VERY slowly/softly) while I'm on a call, but nowhere near as quiet as the crappy logitechs I always get.

It never drops off, it feels great to type on. The lighting and everything is configurable, and will even light up the hot keys you need for a specific game!

It's a great experience. I have no interest in a customizable keyboard, I just want one that works.

The caps matter too - full height, half height, flat or with a small depression in the middle, various types of plastic, with painted symbols or injection molded symbols for light transparency.

My requirements were clear. Light, some feedback, not so noisy, which is squarely brown.

Caps were easy. Put your fingers. Write a Hello World code, see how it feels. Is it alright? Done.

I've used ~15 keyboards in my life, if not more. I know what I like and I'm looking for.

For example I have a heavy + linear keyboard, I was originally disappointed by it but I grew into it in a few weeks. Now I love the energy I get from the rebound of the keys.

We have 20+ year old keyboards at office which are going strong and some are even connected via DIN to USB adapters.

So a good mechanical switch like a Cherry MX cannot be killed in a reasonable amount of time even if you use it daily without abusing it, if there's no defect in production.

I didn't change a Logitech peripheral due to malfunction until now. Some of these are used daily, non stop.

So, I'm not expecting this G710+ to apply for retirement soon.

Wait, is my i key not registering? Nope, just joking. :)

As many before me have said, I am a professional programmer. I don’t care nor have the time to replace switches. I have a backup keyboard that gets swapped in if a switch goes out. I’m never going to tear a board apart to replace a switch.

Some tech news sites have claimed that Kailh makes these. Kailh manufactures also the "Logitech GL" (Kailh Choc) and "Logitech GX" (Kailh's Cherry MX-clone). Cherry MXLP is not available in other than linear, and TTC's proper clone is not available in tactile.

<https://www.kailhswitch.com/mechanical-keyboard-switches/key...>

    Graphite MX Mechanical Tactile Quiet: 920-010547
    Graphite MX Mechanical Linear: 920-010548
    Graphite MX Mechanical Clicky: 920-010549
    Graphite MX Mechanical Mini Tactile Quiet: 920-010550
    Graphite MX Mechanical Mini Linear: 920-010551
    Graphite MX Mechanical Mini Clicky: 920-010552

I can't tell between Choc V2s, or Cherry MX Low-Profile, but this review shows the switches in better (read: any) detail than Logitech's page: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/logitech-mx-mechanical-...

'MX' made me think it might have been Cherry, but the review says Chocs, so that's what I'll believe. MX is probably included to signal 'MX compatible stem'.

From the name and some images my guess is that this ones are based on or at least compatible with the Cherry MX\MX Low profile switches..

But Logitech has the (bad) habit of mixing different models of switches in the same keyboard model.. I have two G512 here..

The first one, a tactile silent, use Romer-G switches, those are made by Logitech itself, not sure if anyone else use those.. they have their own Keycaps, not compatible with anything else AFAIK..

The other one, a tactile clicky, it uses GX Blue switches (their version of the Cherry MX Blue) that is compatbile with Cheery MX keycaps..

My guess would be that those Graphite MX are likely like their previous GX switches.. based on Cherry but manufactured by Logitech or some by some contractor on their behalf.. not much information out there about those yet..

But, they should be vaguely similar in feel. If you're looking for something clicky, the Kailh low-pro switches may be a better choice, since they developed their clickbar for the 'tactile event'. IMO, the clickbar switches are better than click jacket/etc for clicky switches.

Either way, you could order some loose switches as a sample before committing to one or the other. I'd not bother with the tactile (non-clicky) one, but that's just my own opinion.

Keyboard that needs firmware updates? Yuck. It’s an input device. I’ll stick with my 12 year old WASD Code and Model M thank you very much.

/end boomer

... you do realize that these guys have firmware updates, too?

https://support.wasdkeyboards.com/hc/en-us/articles/36001851...

That being said, I've resurrected my WASD Code keyboard a few times from coffee and water spills. It can be taken apart and cleaned with rubbing alcohol, left to dry, and reassembled pretty easily. I usually do this anyway every 18-24 months at this point for sanitary reasons.

While my G700 is also capable of firmware updates, they didn't push anything to it since I bought it a decade ago.

the unifying dongle had some security problems detected in the past that required firmware updates to fix..

I had a Microsoft Bluetooth mouse which constantly lost connection where I live. No Logitech receiver even skipped in that place.

They may had to make breaking changes to it at some point, but it’s already old technology, so moving to bolt doesn’t make Logitech an incompetent company in my eyes.

On the other hand, if the Bolt is any better then the Unifying only time will tell, but i do not have my hope up..

Very quickly my coworkers encouraged me to buy one with silent clear switches.

I now own two.

The clicky one stays at home.

Also you frequently get quite a lot of noise from the stabilizers on the large keys. Your only real option there is to lube them, but that's not really feasible on most off the shelf keyboards.

Quiet enough that your coworkers won't hear it, yet very comfortable to type on for those new to mechanical keyboards: Browns.

I've not used the low-profile switches, but I believe that they activate at around 12mm and also bottom out at a lesser depth though I don't know where.

This is why I highly recommend browns (any manufacturer) for new mechanical keyboard users. It is much easier to train on the tactile browns. You could do it with blues as well, but blues are just too noisy for office work, and gamers say that they have too long a reset stroke to be good for gaming. Once the user gets used to not bottoming out on browns, moving to a Cherry red keyboard is absolutely amazing. Typing on reds feels like floating on a cloud, it becomes an enjoyable experience in its own right, once you learn to effortlessly not bottom out.

There are some terrific rubber dome keyboards. I actually use one occasionally as I like to rotate my equipment, to fend off the R in RSI.

They were so close to getting it, too.

Or will they be supported by a warranty so well that they'll just send me a replacement without shipping anything back?

Remember, I've said I have no time. I want to plug and forget the device.

Also, some of the most touted brands can’t be shipped to my country either.

If the push comes to shove, I think I can solder a single switch from a major manufacturer. I’m not the one to shy away from a soldering iron at the end of the day.

I've lost every dongle I've ever had ... never again.

You know a peripheral company is dead when, as of last year or so, they still didn't have peripherals with USB-C connectors.

I suspect that "use it 'til it dies" is going to be a lot shorter than you expect, with the new Logitech.

Other mechanical keyboards have different switch-types listed, but even as a user of a mech keyboard for a decade now I couldn't tell you which is which without looking it up. Logitech simplified it with "Tactile Quiet", "Linear", and "Clicky". You immediately know which style is for you without having to consult some switch tactile/loudness chart or ask the mechanical keyboard cult for their take. They've lowered the bar of entry into the mechanical keyboard market. Do other companies do the same or go the extra mile to simplify the process? Probably, but it carries a lot more weight when the biggest name in computer peripherals does it.

As for me, I might give it a go eventually. If they take a cue from the MX mouse series with how damn customizable it is binding buttons to actions, then I'll definitely be grabbing it.

Also Logitech's propertiary dongle is not necessary, it can use Bluetooth.

https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/24/23137797/logitech-mx-mast...

Perhaps they’re rebranded generics, can’t say.

I'll be waiting for the reviews, though.

they look like https://kono.store/products/kailh-choc-mx-switches with standard cherry stems so you can use any keycaps

https://www.reviewgeek.com/p/uploads/2022/05/90799f4d.jpg

I tried Logitech G915 TKL keyboard a while back. One of the dealbreakers was that while connected by Bluetooth, you couldn't use any of the _smart_ features of the keyboard like macros or more advanced backlight options. It may be different with this keyboard, but I definitely wouldn't assume that all of the features are available via Bluetooth, sadly

(and I have a mac keyboard stashed in the back of the closet for when I need to boot THAT into recovery mode)

Never really cared about swapping switches much and I want my keyboard to be wireless. I’d consider buying this if I didn’t already own the regular mx keys.

[1]: https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2019-13052#

The ability to combine keyboard and mouse into one connection is a huge selling point, and Bluetooth sucks. But Logitech is merely coasting on its fading brand, not even bothering to update its connectors.

Eh, don't buy those models then. Send the market a message.

Ideally I would want 4 USB-A and 4 USB-C but I am not delusional enough.

I don’t think that they’re targeting the same sort of user as the enthusiast board manufacturers do.

I mean the MX Keys is a popular product outside of mech keyboard circles, this may be positioned as an alternative for those users

I have been using the gaming version of this keyboard (G915) for years and would prefer not going back to high rise keys.

Better ergonomics, looks better, easier to clean, less wobbly keys, smaller chance of breaking a keycap.

So from a sample size of one, I've never broken a keyboard on a full height key, I've broken 3-4 on laptop butterfly keyboards over the last 20-ish years, and I've broke one on a G915 in one year.

I mean just look at the underside of the logitech keycaps with two thin prongs versus the heavier duty (and redundant points of connection) on the female + connector on a cherry key, I know which I'd bet on.

Where are you getting this from? I can count at least 3 people I know using low profiles. Without doing a poll. Some people want that laptop feel in a desktop board.

Why is the mechanical keyboard community so elitist? I don't have time to research a keyboard made by some mom and pop keyboard operation when I already know it won't work (easily if at all) with my setup.

With Logitech's unifying receiver, I can have a completely wireless setup with a single keyboard and two mice (two different kinds that I switch between for wrist health and comfort) that I can seamlessly use with my work computer and home computer and the same monitor. So no wires, one monitor, one keyboard and mice setup, and two computers (of different OSs) that I switch between with a simple keyboard shortcut.

I'm not into the mechanical keyboard world because I value ergonomics and silence over nerding out over an overly clacky keyboard, but since this keyboard uses Logitech's unifying receiver, it has value. (Edit: well, it looks like this doesn't use the existing unifying receiver, which is definitely a valid complaint.)

The issues with the unifying receiver and interference are not specific to the receiver. As far as I understand, it's interference from USB 3.x ports that affects any 2.5 GHz wireless receiver.

I think this is a fundamental element of modern 'advertising on social media'. This and 'scarcity' of product 'drops'.

My teenage son was sucked into this nonsense about two+ years ago. The PCBs for the keyboards (purchased from multiple vendors) are terribly-supported Chinese garbage. Official tech support is junk, and if you ask a keyboard community, it's taken as an insult to the community.

And before anyone says, "bad assembly" -- my son is certified from a three-day long Haako micro-soldering course, so he knows how to solder.

I personally feel my ergonomic Logitech setup looks quite sleek. But I guess it's too boring.

And I'll be honest, part of my negative opinion surrounding mechanical keyboards is from this remote work era, where it seems like all the mechanical keyboard developers are in a competition to have the loudest keyboard. Some of the mechanical keyboards make me feel I'm being assaulted over Zoom (or whatever video conferencing tool) by the loudness of their clacks. It can be extremely distracting. I can't imagine what it's like to work in an office with people with those keyboards.

After looking around for a while, I mostly found 10-key-less custom boards, very few full keyboards and none were the exact layout I wanted (they were either ANSI with the small Enter, which I hate, or 105-key ISO, which I would have also hated). Not to mention lacking media keys and/or programmable keys. Then I found my current keyboard. The Logitech G915 Lightspeed.

It is EXACTLY what I wanted. Has the correct layout, has media keys, has programmable keys, it's dual wireless (Bluetooth and their Lightspeed connector, which is definitely more reliable than Bluetooth, I have to tell you; also it works before booting into Windows, which Bluetooth does not, so I don't have to use a different keyboard for BIOS), the battery lasts FOREVER (3-4 weeks, including me turning on the lighting at night) and is replaceable. It uses Kailh Low-profile switches, which although uncommon, can be found online, and, while not hotswappable, can be replaced in the event of failure.

The MRSP is 250 EUR, I got it for 150 new, which is a steal. With that money I basically bought myself a keyboard which I can conceivably use for the next 20 years, no problem (factoring in inevitable key repairs and battery replacement(s), of course).

Don't know about you, but I'm happy with my choice and purchase and would wholeheartedly recommend it to anyone. In fact, after using it for a while, I also purchased the G502 Wireless mouse, which I also love.

So, yeah, for some people, Logitech peripherals are exactly what they need.

Logitech G915 looks great if it just used the cable, it seems to have volume knob/roller too. Too bad there isn't wired cheaper equivalent, at least I don't see any.

That having been said, more good news. My model came with the same pictures, but it was the 104-key layout, so it might vary by region, I guess. Look around and see what you can find at your local retailers.

Even more good news, even if you can't find the G815, the G915 DOES work by wire, if you really want to. You can hook it up via micro USB. Even comes with a cable.

Also, might I suggest you at least try a wireless keyboard. OK, so you don't move it. Valid argument. Neither do I, but the lack of one MORE cable on my desk, plus the ability to just yank it off the desk for cleaning, with having to unplug it, well worth it.

https://resource.logitechg.com/w_692,c_limit,q_auto,f_auto,d...

And here it is in the US International layout:

https://resource.logitechg.com/w_692,c_limit,q_auto,f_auto,d...

As you can see, in the US variant, it does not have the shift slashes, so it's 104 keys instead of 105. They're not reversed, it's just that the left shift is full size and the slash is near the Enter. From what I've seen, though, it's not merely a US/UK difference, as some manufacturers will keep the left Shift slash button as a double, just to respect the 105-key standard. To me, and apparently @saiya-jin, this is very annoying.

Before I decided on this keyboard, I shopped around found WASD. They do customizable prebuilt mechanical keyboards. Pretty nice. They also have the ISO layout variant, as well as the ANSI variant. Even nicer. But check out these comparison shots I took from their configurator:

https://imgur.com/a/JUZBJwB

See how they just keep the left Shift slash as a double, despite it already being next to Enter on the US variant? That would have driven me crazy.

Yes, I can look into other options, but this is targeting people like me, who are already in the logitech ecosystem and are happy there. I can try my luck with another brand that I may or may not like more, or I can go with this and hope that it's of similar quality to other devices in the MX sub-brand.

What have the MX keyboards offered? This is a generic mech, another one had a scroll wheel... where's the no fuss tenting split with thumb features beating function and price point of the an Ergodox or Keyboardio?

https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/keyboards/k860-split...

Between that and the MX ergo, bye bye wrist pain.

honestly I was into mechanical keyboards for a while, I put together a few kits, I bought into group buys on individual hand-crafted keys, group buys on keysets, and bought a HHKB to try topre switches. After a while I just stopped, because the scene is incredibly disorganized and constantly shifting (e.g., I was into mechanical keyboards for a year or two and /r/budgetkeebs didn't even exist, but lots of my friends still know me as the keyboard enthusiast guy so they always ask me where to get a keyboard). The barrier to entry is very substantial. There are a lot of people who would like a nicer keyboard who don't want to have to deal with that nonsense.

Take that whole concept, and now think about webcams. People have money to burn and spent a lot of time on video chat because of Covid. How many people sat around and did hours and hours of research to buy the perfect webcam? How many people heard the Logitech 1080p webcam (the C920x I think?) was pretty good, bought it, plugged it in, had a good product and literally never thought about it again? I'm willing to bet that second group is easily ten times as large as the first group. And alllllllll those people see "Logitech" and all they think is "it's a peripheral that will probably work well that I don't have to think about". That's an enormous market.

anyway I can't figure out if the MX means the switches have Cherry MX stems or not, which is annoying. Not something I would buy, but definitely a frustratingly underserved market segment.

I have the opposite experience across probably half a dozen Logitech devices over the last decade or so. The dongle is so much more reliable and far lower latency than bluetooth. I'd take Logitech unified receiver over bluetooth all day long. I haven't had nearly as much luck with other 2.4Ghz receivers. I'm also using a RK Royal Kludge wireless keyboard and it's very particular about where the receiver is plugged in and distance from the keyboard.

Really? Been using Logitech devices for years and never had any issue with interference.

Mechanical keyboards are filtering down into corporate IT purchasing after they've entered the consumer mainstream (gaming keyboards and the like), particularly in smaller / "hip" companies that decide to buy smaller amounts of premium hardware instead of trying to shave pennies off unit costs in volume (Fortune 500 etc.). Logitech's retail reach makes this a much simpler decision for those purchasing agents, who will likely be able to purchase these through pre-existing channels, compared to smaller outlets offering specialized keyboards.

I have a ridiculously priced Topre Realforce, but when friends and family ask for a recommendation or I'm helping them setup a machine I would definitely recommend something like this if they're up for spending a little more. Historically I've been recommending the Logitech K840 in those scenarios. This looks like a wireless upgrade to that.

https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Wireless/Nordic/nRF24LU1... https://www.nordicsemi.com/Products/nRF24-series

This chip was pretty popular for non-bluetooth keyboard/mouse dongles, not just Logitech.

i don't know about the Unifying but the bolt is certainly based on Bluetooth, BT 5.0 Low Power to be exact..

It looks like it's their short travel switches, which are found on the G915. I own, but do not use (on account of my newer custom keeb), a G915. The switches are a noticeable step above stock Cherrys, with significantly less scratchiness (that probably has to do with the short travel), but obviously pale in comparison to "the rest." The G915 also has really solid build quality, although I'm not sure if that translates to this model.

Despite my positive comments about the keyboard family, I strongly recommend looking into a custom keyboard because you'll find a much closer match, for what you're looking for, than what OEM keyboards will ever yield. You can get a GMMK 2, with lubed switches, for $149 [1] (then spend another $20 on cheap keycaps on Amazon). The switches are hot-swappable, so you will get many years of use from it. GMMK 2 is extremely entry-level, but will blow almost any OEM keyboard clear out of the water (including this one).

You can also get keyboard switch samplers to help you choose which switch works best for you.

[1]: https://www.pcgamingrace.com/pages/gmmk-2-configurator?color...

I honestly have no idea why this was posted on HN, there's a ton of other keyboards that have the same specs and features. Sure it's got Logitech's priority dongle, but as you point out, what's here that's not on a 70 dollar gk65.

This is the first time they make an wireless mechanical keyboard in their "regular" brand..

> I don't get who this product is for, other than maybe someone who has heard mechanical keyboards are cool but is daunted by doing any research into what mechanical keyboard options exist out there.

I like mechanical keyboards but I just don't care. What research do I possibly need to do?

> Non-enthusiasts will see that this Logitech keyboard is $150, but doesn't offer all that much more than their cheaper wireless multi-device keyboards, and will just buy a cheaper non-mech option.

If you find yourself in this bucket, check out Keychron. They make mechanical and optical hot swappable keyboards that are amazingly durable, multi-device, multi-platform, and cheap. The only bother you (sometimes) have to put up with is batch ordering.

I've scratch-built keyboards from disparate parts. I've put kits together. I've flashed keyboard firmware. I know how to solder and de-solder.

I'm not super plugged-in to the community but I do consider myself an enthusiast.

I don't care about hot swappable keys; soldering is easy enough. I don't really care who makes the switches as long as they feel good enough. I would prefer standard stems but I know I'm not really likely to swap any keycaps.

I'll probably buy one of these when I get sick of my current work keyboard's lack of a numpad.

Can someone speak to this?

I'm asking because I have a Nintendo Switch and I play games with split Joy Cons in docked mode, my right cons have been absurdly unreliable and I'm trying to understand the reason. I've had 4 pairs but they all suffer and the left never does. The console is to my left and my laptop with the Logitech dongle is to my right so I wonder if that has something to do with it. Turning off my mouse seems to help but maybe I should be removing the dongle too...

It is annoying that seemingly nobody in the entirety of Logitech could be bothered to spend 3 minutes scrolling /r/mechanicalkeyboards to see how mkb customers describe their own keyboard and realize that they should put the proper switch name directly in the product description... but that is more or less what I have come to expect from a BigCorp.

I like my logitech mouse, but for the desktop I built, I had to buy and extension USB cable to keep the dongle far enough away from the machine to get the mouse to work without glitching.

lightspeed received is one devide per dongle because it is supposed to be lower latency..

the bolt is the replacement for their old unifying receiver, it support multiple devices with the same dongle and it is based on bt low power..

I agree. For this price you could buy a great keyboard from Vortex with swap able keys .. which click the way you like it.

I would see myself buying one of those if it was a bit cheaper (they will drop in price for sure) and if I didn't have enough keyboards.

It does, though. They are all MX switches, and they have 3 different ones: tactile silent, clicky, and linear. Each one of them has a short basic description.

Reading the engadget review[0] of it, it seems like the naming was fairly accurate. The author points out that "linear" is an equivalent of MX Red, and "clicky" is an equivalent of MX Blue. The "tactile silent" switches weren't explicitly called out in the review, but it sounds like they would be the closest to MX Brown.

0. https://www.engadget.com/logitech-mx-mechanical-hands-on-gam...

What's wrong with Logitech?

I see a lot of praise for the MX Master mouse and keyboard, I use the mouse myself and it's been great.

This seems to be the standard Apple strategy, which has worked wonders.

"Easily pair via Bluetooth® Low Energy or the included Logi Bolt USB Receiver..."

MX is a type of switch, so from the name, I'm guessing it uses MX style switches (the most popular style of switch). Specifically MX describes the shape of the connectors on the switch. This means the keyboard will be compatible with aftermarket key caps, which are very popular.

EDIT: While the switches do look like MX switches to me, Logitech is also using MX as branding to describe mice, non-mech keyboards etc. This is confusing for someone who knows mechanical keyboards.

“No one ever got fired for buying IBM/Microsoft/<insert here>”

Loss avoidance at its finest.