In that case, I would recommend looking into one of Keychron's low profile options. Firstly, they're about half the price of this Logitech board, depending on the size you choose to go with. Second, there's twice as many configurations to choose from (Full size, TKL, 75%, and 65%). Even further, they have higher quality and a greater variety in choice of switches, regardless if you choose Keychron's own or Gateron switches. They lack 2.4Ghz conncetion, but there is both bluetooth (with up to 3 paired devices) and USB-C wired connection available. While the logitech board does have USB-C charging, it doesn't explictly state that it supports wired use, which is an option I hold in high regard for wireless keyboards. Final bonus with the Keychron boards is not having to use Logitech's software. Personally, I haven't had any issues with their stuff, but I've seen many that have sworn off of Logitech completely due to buggy software. Stepping away from the personal use aspect, that software often adds yet another path for security vulnerablities. [1]

Didn't mean to go off on such a rant, but if helps even one person choose a better board than a Logitech, I'd say it was worth it. As someone who's used a Logitech board daily for 6 years, I'd recommend looking elsewhere - especially for the money.

>If it's adequately close to MX Browns, I'll get one.

In my experience with Logitech switches, you will be disappointed. I own boards with both Romer-G Browns and Blues. I kid you not that I've felt linear switches that had more tactility than either of these switches produce.

[1] https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/razer-bug-let...

As someone who wanted:

1) Bluetooth

2) Multi-device support/switching (3 minimum)

3) Wired-use operation as a backup

4) Mechanical switches

BUT ALSO:

5) Not to have to give a shit about my keyboard, or spend much time on it, and ideally not spend much money, either

I settled on a Keychron and it's been really good for my purposes. It's a solid keyboard for someone who wants an entirely OK mechanical keyboard for non-bank-breaking prices.

I have had exactly two problems with it, one resolved:

1) It liked to "go to sleep" way too fast, then took 3-5 seconds to wake up and reconnect. A quick look at the manual showed me how to turn that off with some magic key combos. It lasts days on a charge regardless, so it was purely an annoyance. Anyway, that's resolved.

2) The stupid l33t g4m3r d00d light patterns it can do. This was one of the most subdued mechanical keyboards I could find (WHY do so many have this crap?!), and it still has this damn "feature". You can set it to steady, low, always-on light, which is the only thing I ever want, but there's a button at the top right corner that's easy to brush by accident which causes it to cycle to the next light pattern. You then have to hit it like 20 times to get back to "stop trying to look like fucking Las Vegas" mode. I'd have paid an extra $10 to not have this "feature". Just remove the whole damn thing, set it permanently to steady-light, and keep the dim/bright keys for it only (which can also be used to turn it to zero, so, off). I manage to screw this up about once every couple weeks. It's annoying, but not enough to get me to buy a different, probably more expensive, keyboard.

Have K3, besides accidental backlight change, no issues at all. Small comfortable, multidevice support (always connected to my pc via cable, simple switch to BT connection to work Macbook). Also not tried my self, but it looks like there is possible to reprogram backlight patterns with their software: https://www.keychron.com/pages/how-to-program-the-backlight-...

Great, since it might be possible, now I'm going to have to look into finding a way to program my keyboard to fix the backlight thing. And here I was trying not to have to tinker with my keyboard :-)

(seriously, though, thanks for the tip)

On my Keychron K3 there is a key combination that deactivates the light-pattern-changing key. Now, if I accidentally hit it, it just flashes a couple of times and goes back to the setting I had it on. Check your manual.

This sounds interesting, I popped the key cap off that button and also the print-screen button since I was amassing a sizable collection of accidental desktop screenshots!

Edit: It's not in the K2 manual but there is a shortcut, FN + L + lightbulb key that works to lock it -

https://www.keychron.com/pages/k2-user-manual

https://keychronsupport.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360052...

I've had a K2 for years and that was my only annoyance with the keyboard until now.

Now, it's my ideal keyboard

I was looking at it today on Amazon. It looks interesting, but I'm not sure if it will work well with Linux. Anyone know?

I don't use mine with linux unfortunately but the existance of this: https://gist.github.com/andrebrait/961cefe730f4a2c41f57911e6... implies there's some pain in getting started with it.

I commented here about that: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31498642

I got a Keychron K8 Tenkeyless for GBP99.99 off of Amazon. It's got hotswap key switch capability (I picked Gateron Browns but I plan to experiment with other switches), bluetooth connectivity for up to three devices and wired. It's also got RGB but I'm genrally not fussed about that on devices.

The stock keycaps are nice enough but I replaced mine with the Drop MT3 Dasher caps only because I'm a crusty old ex-Data General engineer looking for a nostalgia kick :).

All in all it's a real nice keyboard. It's also absolutely solid in construction with a metal frame and you could easily do someone quite serious (defensive) GBH with it.

I'm not sure why anyone would buy the Logitech in question, not being able to swap key switches these days on a $100+ keyboard seems a bit mean, and was a bit of a deal breaker for me when hunting down what is my first customisable mechanical keyboard.

I should also add that mechanical keyboards are in no way a hobby thing for me and I certainly won't be spending hours on end on customisations other than the odd key switch experiment.

Ok, I've seen the Keychron K4 and it's the perfect layout for me. I would purchase it immediately solely on that basis, except that the Linux support appears to be very poor which makes me hesitant.

You wouldn't happen to know another wireless keyboard with the same layout as the K4, by any chance? It's also ok if it's missing the arrow keys, I just want a keyboard with the numpad but without the Insert/arrow keys block.

I own a DasKeyboard with MX Browns and it's my daily driver at work. I prefer MX Blue switches (or even MX Greens) because I grew up in the old buckling spring era of IBM keyboard dominance (my home keyboard is an old Model M from the late 90s). I would use a clicky keyboard at work, but my coworkers don't like it, so I stick with the browns. I HIGHLY recommend the DasKeyboard. It's hefty, and I installed a custom key set with my preferred key profile and I LOVE it.

This is the one I own and I can't recommend it highly enough: https://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional/

I used a Das Keyboard for over a decade and loved it. Now I've switched to a Drop Alt so I can hotswap "better" switches and run QMK, which I've grown completely dependent on (https://jkaptur.com/layout/).

For me, keyboards like Das Keyboard, Alt, Ctrl, etc. are the perfect satisfice: good keyboards, at a price that's not terrible, with a time & research commitment that falls below the level of "hobby". I could easily see the Logitech keyboard fitting into this niche. The only question is how big a niche it is - how many of us are out there who like a nice keyboard, but are lukewarm/meh about soldering?

What's the logic of using a tiny 40% keyboard like the guy uses in that blog post?

Just adding effort to add additional keys using capslock.

I can understand why people use 60/70% keyboards. I personally couldn't give up the numpad, home/end/pgup/pgdown/arrow keys for it, but there's definitely something to be said for the comfort level of having the mouse less far off from the keyboard.

I think once you're into anything less than 60%, either you literally just type text and use the mouse/touchpad items instead of keyboard shortcuts, or you're more focused in the aesthetic minimalism rather than the functionality.

I use a tiling window manager, emacs+evil-mode, and firefox+vimperator with a keyboard.io atreus (44 keys ergonomic) and it's basically fine if you go "all in"? sometimes I have to struggle to find the layer with the F-keys spread out like a numpad on my right hand, but I don't really use them and have their features bound to shortcuts that are easier to find, and that's probably most of the reason.

I don't have to take my hands off the keyboard to do stuff like navigate text simply, pause/mute music (instead my pinky goes to the bottom of the keyboard and all the keys on the other hand change function), my software can all be driven from the "common" keybindings and modifiers like ctrl/alt/win are on my thumbs instead of being offset below my pinkies.

Importantly, i can throw it in my bag with my laptop and use it when i am traveling so there is very little context-switching that has to occur.

None of this really carries over when I boot in to windows, though, and I keep a ten-keyless keyboard around for playing video games.

I've had my eye on a few 40% builds as of late, so I'll throw another option into your list here: portability. I'm looking for a keyboard that I can throw in my laptop bag that isn't miserable to type on. I had a Microsoft Designer Keyboard for a while but it's worse than my laptop keyboard, so I'm back to the drawing board, and this seems like where I'm landing.

Ah, I've got a 100% G915 and it fits in my backpack fine for a trip to the office or something.

Maybe if the bag was filled for plane travel that'd be a problem.

I made a split keyboard for me (I need to write up that post at some point), and I just made holding out the tilde convert the right half (yuihjknm,) to a numpad. It works great, since I don't use any other keys while using the numpad, and I get to save all that space and switches for something I rarely use.

Having done both, "the mouse goes on the left" is a far easier change to make than learning a minimised keyboard layout.

So my mouse is _very_ right handed. I have some smaller symmetrical mice that are less comfortable. I'm curious how this change worked for you - Did you get a leftie mouse? Did you swap the buttons?

Symmetrical mouse, no button swaps. I'm currently using one of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B073WGB8G6 but I first started doing it with a cheapy Microsoft wired mouse.

People have different preferences: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/37pw1s...

That said (author here), I actually use a 65% for daily use. The 40% was too small for me to use comfortably. I could get used to the caps lock for arrow keys and text editing stuff, but having to remember shortcuts to type a semicolon just wasn't for me.

I used a 50% (Preonic, so 5x12 1u keys, with an option to use a 2u spacebar by sacrificing a slot on the bottom row) for a while, so:

The switches felt great to use (chosen myself), the keycaps were still easily customizable to an office-appropriate yet imo stylish theme, and the default layout was intelligently designed to where most functionality was already within reach of your fingers.

Functionality would be in 'layers'. While they're usually numbered, I think of them as 'Alternate Shift', where normal Shift is 'up 1' (CAPITALS, and !@#$%^), and other layers can be whatever you want, i.e. `Layer2 A` = "{", `Layer2 S` = "}". The layout is set by the (often customizable) firmware.

I stopped using it when I changed to a 100% remote job, but keep it as a display piece.

There are layers which can be used and the layout minimizes the need to stretch and angle fingers for keys. However I tried the Planck EZ ortholinear keyboard and it was terrible. I felt like I was huddled over the keyboard like a chipmunk eating an acorn. For me, I discovered that what I really wanted was a split keyboard and that the number of keys to reach was not my problem. The configurability of the Planck EZ was amazing, but I was really looking for comfort and ergonomics.

Second, I love this keyboard, but it isn't wireless, which I think is a fair requirement. I personally like my keyboards to be wired, but can see why someone might seek out something like the Logitech keyboard.

Even with the browns, in a quiet office full of laptop keyboard users, any mechanical keyboard is going to seem loud. Mechanical keyboards always had the multiple benefits for me of: 1) more like the thing I grew up using, 2) loud enough that maybe they'd prefer I work from home :)

> but it isn't wireless, which I think is a fair requirement

I don't see how this is a fair requirement.

Most people would rather NOT be one 0day RF side-channel attack or bluetooth link key compromise away from someone outside their house with a high-gain antenna grabbing their LUKS or ssh key passphrases.

KeySniffer II is a question of when, not if.

"Most people" don't have LUKS or SSH key passphrases.

That's not a realistic threat model for most people.

I tried a DasKeyboard and found that certain keys would "catch" against the side of other keys due to spacing issues between the keys and the angle of attack of my fingers while typing - enough that it would occasionally prevent the key from registering. Swapped it out for another keyboard of the same make/model and had the same issue with the same keys and another couple of keys. Not sure if that's an issue with my particular way of typing or the build quality, or both.

Ended up returning it and going back to my WASD Code keyboard with MX Browns and just getting a different keycap set for it. It's a similar price to the DasKeyboard (and this Logitech one), and for individually backlit keys that seems to be the common price point. Pretty easy to dismantle and clean as well, so I definitely recommend it.

Same here. I got two of the Das Keyboard 4 (one for work, one for home) over 7 years ago and they're still going strong. I like the brown switches personally.

I hadn't realized how much using membrane switch was causing RSI until I switched to mechanical keyboards.

I've owned two DasKeyboards (one with Browns, one with Blues) and they are sturdy as hell, built like a tank...but for the life of me I don't understand why their Mac models don't come with the right media key layout on the F-row. It's literally my only hangup with them.

I did have a Das Keyboard 4 Ultimate fail on me after 6 years (the switches in the F and G key started to not always register).

I'm sure someone with a steadier hand could maybe fix it with a soldering iron.

I did see some of the reviews of the newer revisions were less positive than their historical record

I had a Das keyboard and it was the best.

> Me, or anybody who needs a no-fuss, one-shot, buy-and-use-it-till-it-dies type of consumer.

You can get a cheaper no-fuss mechanical keyboard from reputable brands with respectable components for far less than this logitech keyboard is being sold.

From the top of my mind, Akko keyboards are quite nice, and most of their products sell for $50 less.

You'd need to be completely, utterly clueless to go to Logitech for a mechanical keyboard. The faintest of Google searches would lead you to established products which are both cheaper and better.

> From the top of my mind, Akko keyboards are quite nice, and most of their products sell for $50 less.

Opened the website. Almost everything out of stock. No other layout besides us_US (most european languages use accented vowels like èòàù). Clown pink and RGB everywhere. Closed the website.

To be fair, their keyboards have line names like "Naruto" and "Doraemon", so.

> Opened the website. Almost everything out of stock.

Amazon seems to have no problem stocking up on Akko keyboards. The ones I'm seeing listed as out of stock on Akko's page seem to be low-volume special editions with custom keycaps.

But again, I'm not a sales representative. Anyone interested in mechanical keyboards surely is able to use Google to find decent offers. I doubt Logitech products will feature in anyone's shortlist though.

What's the difference between Akko, EPOMAKER Akko, YUNZII Akko, Womier Akko, Gliging Akko, COSTOM Akko on Amazon?

That all looks... entirely reputable. Absolutely.

From some quick glances at /r/MechanicalKeyboard, Akko looks to be a manufacturer (primarily for switches), while the rest are various distributors.

Funking naming/branding isn't unheard of in the MK world, considering a large amount of stuff is bought from China and rebranded.

So I can point my 60yo father to a reddit thread to try to figure out the differences between switches and manufacturers when all he really wants is a keyboard that sounds/feels better than the gummy crap that came with his Dell. Then maybe he'll create an account and ask a question and get some snarky ass hole reply from someone barking "IF You'd HAd GooOgled It!".

Or, I can say "dad, check out this logitech kb. It's affordable and you can pick how loud you want it to be".

Literally that simple. Start looking at things through the eyes of your parents or grandparents and you start to see how fucking complicated and confusing a lot of this shit is. It's no wonder at all that Logitech is coming out with something simple with streamlined options.

Being from a recognizable brand and available at Staples/Bestbuy/Walmart are big things.

Sometimes people who are deep into things forget about that. You've done 100s of hours of research. You've chosen X Y and Z for reasons. You've built this and that, tried some of those.

Most people's keyboard choice is about 3 minutes in the aisle. Done.

this, both the need to research basic facts like "what brand am i buying from", and the attitude when you ask questions to research those basic facts, is why someone would want to buy a logitech mechanical keyboard

> Anyone interested in mechanical keyboards surely is able to use Google to find decent offers.

Umm, there are now almost daily threads on HN about how bad Google search has become, especially for product search... So I'd guess many people will be happy about a no-nonsense offering from a somewhat reputable manufacturer like Logitech.

Whilst I get your point - you might want to tone down the rhetoric slightly...

I'm a mechanical keyboard aficionado - I've gone through everything from Das, to Annes, to WhiteFoxes, to Keychrons. (Yes, I did solder some of those...lol).

My current daily driver is a Keychron K6 - but even I am seriously considering this Logitech.

The spec sheet promises a battery life of 10 months (no backlight) - the Keychron K6 is fine - except that the battery life sucks, and it takes 3-4 seconds to wake up from sleep every time.

I'm looking for a QMK wireless keyboard, but they're thin on the ground - and I suspect the battery life would still be terrible.

At the end of the day, companies like Logitech (or Apple) have the time and engineering nous to test things, and have them Just Work. Things like decent battery life, or having fast wake-from-sleep would probably be handled by their engineering teams.

> I'm looking for a QMK wireless keyboard, but they're thin on the ground

The issue with wireless keyboards and QMK is that Bluetooth is such a messed up protocol and to implement it QMK would realistically have to deal with proprietary binary blobs which they choose not to. I heard there's some work on "custom" 2.4GHz transmission modes but that's not as universal or ubiquitous as Bluetooth is.

Maybe check out ZMK, basically a QMK for wireless keyboards but more opiniated. I'm about to build a wireless corne with it after years on a wired QMK Planck.

Battery life for closed source keyboards made by big companies will always be better because they have the resources to perfectly engineer the hardware and code for every model and the willingness to cut lots of corners in terms of customizability. Same with any other piece of hardware.

I'd personally prefer some form of wireless which is specifically not Bluetooth. For one, I'm typing this on an old desktop that doesn't have BT of any kind and I don't want to have a dedicated keyboard for choosing my OS (I sometimes use windows on this computer).

Also, sometimes there's noticeable lag when typing on a BT keyboard (I have experience with an older Apple keyboard on an MBP and with a Keychron). I've never had such issues with either of my MS sculpt keyboard or Logitech mice and keyboards (nor with my Logitech lightspeed mice which are amazing, but I realize that's something else).

> I'm looking for a QMK wireless keyboard, but they're thin on the ground - and I suspect the battery life would still be terrible.

QMK's bluetooth stack is pretty fucking broken and has limited chipsets it supports. You'll have more luck with https://github.com/jpconstantineau/BlueMicro_BLE or https://github.com/zmkfirmware/zmk

> The spec sheet promises a battery life of 10 months (no backlight) - the Keychron K6 is fine - except that the battery life sucks, and it takes 3-4 seconds to wake up from sleep every time.

Turn off sleep. There's a key combo to do it (at least, there was on my model). It has such a small effect on battery life that I have no idea why they default to making it go to sleep like every two minutes of inactivity.

I do sometimes look at my mouse that's also bluetooth and runs on a single AA battery for months, and wonder WTF Keychron's doing wrong with power management. Oh well, at least it can work plugged-in, too. And it was cheap.

I've seen dongles you can buy (I think in the $30-$50 range) that sit between your normal non-QMK keyboard and your computer. Then when you press a key, the dongle takes the keycodes from your keyboard, runs them through QMK, and everything works like your keyboard had QMK to begin with.

This is probably the route I'd go for a wireless board. I'd likely choose a keyboard that really has the wireless part down (Logitech is a decent option here, I think - the experience with their receiver is better than Bluetooth for input devices in my experience) and then run it through one of those dongles if I really wanted wireless.

You would think. The most annoying piece of hardware I have is a Microsoft wireless mouse which, while it's physically fine, goes to sleep very quickly and takes roughly a second to wake up when you move it. It's pretty much unusable as a result. Which is disappointing, because MS hardware generally is pretty good, but I guess everyone misses sometimes.

> guess everyone misses sometimes.

It's still strange to me how companies like Microsoft and Logitech can still regularly produce lemons after, what, 15 years of optical mouse production. It's not like anything fundamentally changes any more, they should have a winning set of virtually perfect devices that cover the entire market with interlocking segments by now.

I guess they're going for the "make it bit shit on purpose so we can sell them another mouse in 2 years" strategy.

Or maybe they just cannot help themselves from penny pinching good products into bad products so continually that you don't even know which are which any more (and you certainly can't tell if the expensive models are actually better or not).

I guess it's good that they're leaving market gaps open for the little guys?

>because MS hardware generally is pretty good

After a couple years of supporting Surface devices, I have very different views in this regard.

I was more thinking peripherals. The Natural keyboard line and their cheap mice were always just rock solid. Admittedly I've not been in the market for them for a while so I don't know what the latest models are like, but I did find the irony that a software company's best products were its hardware ones rather delicious.

> You'd need to be completely, utterly clueless to go to Logitech for a mechanical keyboard. The faintest of Google searches would lead you to established products which are both cheaper and better.

Not clueless, just not someone who would Google around for reviews or care to get the absolute best. They go to Best Buy. This is virtually every adult I know over age 40/50 outside of the industry. They'll roll up to Best Buy for a new keyboard, see this and think "cool! Some new type of thing!"

A household brand name like Logitech is significant. They've been making mice almost as long as I've had a computer. This is extremely important to anyone who's been around long enough to have ventured into trying alternatives and eventually come back to the big names for consistency, warranty, return-ability.

> This is virtually every adult I know over age 40/50 outside of the industry.

Or even a lot of people in their 20s and 30s inside the [programming/IT?] industry.

Some people are fine spending 20% of the time to get 80% of the features and are willing to spend a bit more money to do so.

Yep, I'm in that bunch now. I used to be intense into research and DIY.

BUT now I've got more money than time.

So if it comes to my door in 2 days and/or can just be returned.. I don't flinch at $50- 100 premiums.

I like this one that seems similar to the logitech "mini" one. https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-k3-wireless-mecha...

It's low profile, has replaceable switches, can use a cable or bluetooth, is a fair price and has worked really well.

I have this and it’s nice except I would much rather have a dongle the bluetooth.

I haven’t found any wireless mechanical keyboards with a dongle until this Logitech one.

I've been using a similar one as well. Specifically, the RK68 Pro.

The Bluetooth is... okay. It takes a few seconds to wake up, but it doesn't turn off for about 30 minutes. Battery life has been fine with BT 5.0. I want to say somewhere in the range of a couple weeks? All with backlighting disabled.

USB wireless is a bit of a joke, honestly. I've had it lose signal even just a foot or so away with absolutely nothing (except air) between the dongle and keyboard. I have to have the dongle at about 8" or less to maintain a reliable connection.

Overall, I'd say the keyboard is fantastic for the money. I'm truly wowed by the mechanical keyboards you can get for comparatively very cheap prices these days.

That being said, I still generally trust a company like Logitech to get Bluetooth and RF USB to be less flakey. Sure, other smaller companies get it right too, but I've had to do way more experimentation and messing around in order to find that.

Though if you can do with a wired keyboard, then I wouldn't bother with the Logitech, personally.

I have one of those, but the wireless doesn't work well for me (shuts off after about 5-10 minutes, takes a few seconds to turn on again, and runs down the battery in less than a week), and the it defaults to a really crazy looking moving backlight scheme.

On the other hand, I have a wireless logitech with a little trackpad I use for controlling my PC from my couch that's been on the same set of AAA batteries for over a year. So a proper mechanical logitech with a wireless dongle is sort of appealing to me.

Have they improved the keycaps on the K3 since launch? I had one at launch and ended up returning it because the keycaps were so poor. Very rough with lots of imperfections.

I've found it worth buying a set of keycaps that I know I like. Even amongst keycaps made of the same plastic (PBT), they don't always feel the same. And in my experience, the keycaps make as much or more of a difference in feeling as the switches themselves.

Specifically, I bought a set of the Granite DSA keycaps several years ago and always use them on my primary keyboard.

The problem with the linked keyboard, the K3, is it's ultra low profile. At least at launch, there were no alternatives on the market except the ones that it came with. The keycaps are thinner than my phone and I remember trying different keycaps and I think they worked (maybe upside down?), but not well.

I have the revised K3 and the keycaps don’t have any quality issues. You should be good to reorder.

Thanks! I actually did like the keyboard, but the keycaps were unbearable bad and I went back to my Magic Keyboard (which I don't mind at all, really; I just know I can do better and would like to explore a bit)

Wow - that’s only half the price!

What’s the battery life like, and how fast is the wake up time? (I’m a Mac user in case it matters. )

Honestly I just use it wired and it looks like others are not impressed with the Bluetooth. Maybe one of them will chime in.

I'm a big fan of the Logitech Triathlon keyboards and mice (which this one seems to be among).

I use a Kinesis Advantage and USB/DP KVM on my desk, but have switched my spouse and my basement computers over to the Triathlon keyboards and mice (which support hotkey switching among three computers, including mixed Bluetooth and multi-device USB dongle connections). My spouse switches between her work laptop and Macbook without fussing with cables or a KVM and is quite happy with it.

(I bought much cheaper M720 and K850/K780 keyboards on Ebay, but the underlying convention/functionality seems the same and is really slick/cheap for multi-computer usage.)

> You can get a cheaper no-fuss mechanical keyboard from reputable brands with respectable components for far less than this logitech keyboard is being sold.

This actually looks decently low-profile, what are similar reputable brand keyboards that are equal to or less than the height of this keyboard?

How many layouts do they have besides en_US?

I find it apalling even Apple offers more keyboard layouts than a company focused entirely on peripherials. It's insulting honestly.

Believe or not, Apple offers a lot of keyboard layouts when compared to most computer companies.

Basically the reason why even if I'm willing to do my research on mechanical keyboards, I will still end up with a Logitech or some big brand one.

> How many layouts do they have besides en_US?

Beats me. I do not represent the brand.

I guess worst case scenario you're a keycap set away from any keyboard layout you wish to have.

No, you cannot convert an ANSI keyboard to an ISO layout. Which is a pity, as many nice keyboards are ANSI only.

> No, you cannot convert an ANSI keyboard to an ISO layout.

A cursory search on Google returned plenty of search hits on how to convert keyboards between ANSI and ISO.

Also, apparently there are ANSI+ISO keycap sets on the market.

Anyway, I don't have a dog in the race. Anyone who is on the market for a 150$ keyboard will surely be able to Google stuff that suits their fancy.

You realize ISO is physically different, like, there is one more physical key and enter is 2U high (not wide, high)? Unless the PCB was designed with that conversion in mind there's no way that's going to be possible.

> You realize ISO is physically different, like, (...)

That is only relevant as far as picking keycap sets go.

As I've pointed out, there are plenty of ANSI+ISO sets on the market.

Beyond this point, the relevance is zero.

It's a non-issue.

You've been provided answers of how this is not the case.

Observe this image of ANSI vs ISO layouts: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F...

Let's say I have an ANSI keybord, and I buy a set of ISO keycaps?

First of all, the enter and shift keys are not going to fit, so let's reuse the keycaps from the ANSI ones. Now we do put in all the keys and... my #/~ key is left over. There is no switch on the keyboard to mount the keycap to. ANSI keyboards do not have the same amount of keys.

Not to mention my \| is not in the right place - the ANSI shift key covers it's proper location, so guess I'm putting an undersized keycap on the top of enter. No amount of rebinding is going to let me have the left half of left shift do one thing and the right half do another.

These ANSI/ISO keycap packs you're thinking of are not indicating they will let you convert one keyboard to another. They just mean they include both shapes of enter keys, both sizes of left shift and \|, and a #~ key which doesn't exist for ANSI keyboards.

Sorry, can you be helpful and point me to a link which shows how to do this for any given keyboard? For example, you would have to replace the left shift key with 2 separate keys, how should that work?

I don't think you can do that on most boards. The switches and stabilizers are very different between layouts. I can't imagine how would that work outside of re-soldering some switches and reassembling the board, if the PCB allows.

I think the same, you would need a different positioning of the switches on most keyboards. But as the poster I answered to was claiming you could convert them, I was curious, what he was thinking of :)

>I guess worst case scenario you're a keycap set away from any keyboard layout you wish to have.

I'm not aware of any main Logitech keyboards that support changing the keycaps. I couldn't even find replacement keycap sets for my board when I looked a year ago.

I got a random mechanical keyboard for $50 on an eBay auction. It is a Logitech keyboard and it is terrible, probably the worst keyboard I have ever used. It lasted less than a year before button pressed started registering twice or not at all.

Now Amazon offers many non famous brand (likely rebranded Chinese OEM) products and find good one from there is nightmare. Some consumer may stick familiar brand like Logitech or Corsair.

I think that they don’t need to know or research or ask about other brands is the point. It’s like you know that Monster Cables will be sufficient.

That said why would such a person want a mechanical keyboard but not want to out in the effort to learn about them? I’m guessing it’s for dabblers or people who’ve heard of mechanical keyboards and it’s more an impulse buy than an investment.

(I’ve tuned my own springs by finger so that’s where I stand personally)

In my case, for the G710+ case especially, I did my research, understood what I want, did additional research and pulled the trigger.

Being happy with what I've ended with, I didn't dive deeper into that rabbit hole, because I have more important things to do than tweaking keyboards.

I'm like that. Do my research, pull the trigger once, consider the problem solved and move on.

Having many hats and ambitions limits one's time considerably. I for one only have tonight to be at home at dinner time, incl the weekend.

Sorry for not being able to live up to your standards in the mechanical keyboard realm, however being a sysadmin and programmer, I think I can want a dependable and semi-decent mechanical keyboard. Considering I've grown up with some of them. If you permit, of course.

You are not the target market. There are not enough people like you to justify a product. If you like the keyboard great, but who is their target? People who have heard of “mechanical = good” and know the Logitech brand. It’s just a weird niche compared to many more people who come into mechanical keyboards from the hobbyist tinkerer side of things.

> There are not enough people like you to justify a product. If you like the keyboard great, but who is their target? People who have heard of “mechanical = good” and know the Logitech brand.

I bet this category easily outnumbers all massdrop hypebeasts or Cherry switch sommeliers out there.

In the same way that middle-upper class men who want a nice pair of headphones, vaguely remember that "high impedance = good" and know the Sennheiser brand easily outnumber audiophiles.

I feel that. Not everyone wants to make keyboards a hobby.

What I'll say is: I've had both the MX Keys, and the G915. The MX Keys is the baby brother chicklet version of this one. The G915 is Logitech's gaming-grade low-profile mechanical keyboard, using switches that visually look similar to this one. I've had switch failures on both, within 18 months of (reasonably heavy) use; double typing, missed inputs, etc. The only keyboard I've had fail quicker is the MacBook Pro butterfly keyboards; but I have a half dozen which have lasted significantly longer.

A few other paths I'd recommend which are better:

1. Go to Best Buy. I know, old school. Most have a gaming products isle, with keyboards, and a display area with a bunch of them. Try them all out. Try to find one with standard Cherry switches (most have them nowadays, except Logitech and maybe Razer; and they'll advertise it proudly on the box). They'll have RGB and other nonsense, but they're reasonably price competitive and generally solid keyboards. Corsair makes some good ones; I have a Corsair that sees daily use that's gotta be 4-5 years old now, on Cherry MX Red switches.

2. Something like this: https://kbdfans.com/collections/fully-assembled-keyboard. Pre-assembled DIY. You'll probably end up paying a bit more, and even their pre-assembly DIY configurator is, frankly, daunting. But the only thing to really worry about is selecting the right switch brand for you; and YouTube can help a lot, locating videos of people typing on each switch type. For the totally uninclined: Cherry Reds are the classic novice switch (or Silent Reds if you want really low sound, but the Reds themselves are pretty quiet).

Frankly, to me; this isn't a situation where I will argue "all big box brands suck, don't buy a big box". Some of them are pretty good. But Logitech keyboards have really dropped in quality lately; if you're going to go big box, at least don't go Logitech, please.

I have the G915 TKL (Clicky) an it is awesome. It is low profile and works great for programing.

Any regular Cherry MX keyboard is going to have tall keys, and it is just aweful for programming in general (long key travel makes typing around, and moving arrow keys, harder as it takes more effort).

I have build 2 custom keyboards, and have 2 more prebuild cherry mx keyboards, and I will never buy or work on a regular profile keyboard again. Low profile is are just much better ergonomically, and right now the G915 is one of the best in the market. (but it is pricey)

I have the G915tkl and it still works perfectly over two years later. Wild that you had such bad experience with them!

This is the one that I've been using for quite some time: https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-k6-wireless-mecha...

I'm not a keyboard geek (I don't touch-type, for one thing), and feel you, for the "one-stop shop" thing.

I do have a couple of old Logitech keyboards, collecting dust in a bin, upstairs.

I also have a Keychron and it has been a one stop, buy and use until it dies kind of thing for me.

How long does it typically last until it does? What model do you have?

The K6 (small non-numpad).

I dunno. It works OK for me (and I use a cheap off-brand USB cable that works fine for me). I keep it plugged in, so I don't really care about wireless or Bluetooth.

Like I said, I am not really fanatical about keyboards. I wanted the RGB backlights, relatively tactile (but not super -I use red keys), and fairly small. I also wanted wired. This is wireless, but runs as wired.

It seems to be a common frame. I think I have seen almost identical port layouts in other brands.

I brought it about a year ago.

I have the K2 LED/aluminum, hot swappable model with the medium click keys. It's 2ish years old I think. I mostly use it plugged in so I don't have to think about charging. I use it every day and it's worked great. It was my first and only mechanical keyboard, and I love typing on it. It makes me want to type.

I had 3 keychron keyboards, each lasted less than a year before the switches failed, reverted back to a logitech K780 from 5+ years ago and it works a champ.

Also Keychron had some obscure usb cable requirement, that they could never convey over support emails. You would think that any usbc usbc cable would work for a keyboard, but not the few I had laying around that were longer than the provided one

Just my two cents, I wouldn't buy another Keychron

I also have 3 keychrons. One for my wife and myself with a second one with cherry clears for myself. None of them are having problems and they’ve been daily drivers for years now.

I still have the original small KeyChron, it’s been a beast. Had it for years now. I abuse it mightily and it won’t quit.

Maybe their QA has fallen in recent years?

I use a non-backlit K8 during the day and a backlit K2 at night. I like the keychrons so much I ordered a second hot-swappable K8 and some custom quiet switches for making videos.

My mk journey went das keyboard > cooler master > leopold > vortex > keychron. I haven't looked for anything different since I got the keychrons.

I cannot speak for their recent keyswitches, but I bought a Logitech mechanical keyboard a few years back and the switches started failing after a couple of years. Being able to replace keyswitches kept the thing running for a few months longer. Eventually I gave up and replaced the entire keyboard since it became clear this was a design issue rather than a manufacturer defect. Still, the ability to replace a broken keyswitch is a feature when paying anywhere from 5 to 10 times more for a keyboard.

Long story short: that mechanical keyboard was not the modern incarnation the tanks of years gone by. I am using one based upon Cherry switches at the moment. I don't have enough experience to judge the long term outcome, but my initial research suggests a similar outcome. Most of the hype around modern mechanicals seem to focus upon sound and feel (and, more justifiably, the ability to build your own), rather than quality. If that's the case, I feel that the gradual degradation of cheap keyboards is a more desirable outcome.

I'm running a G710+ at home for five years at least (I bought when it was just discontinued for a steep discount), and written my Ph.D. on that, incl. the code and the manuscript, I can say that they're not bad.

Nothing is broken, no led is burnt off or no key has faded.

Being said that the G710+ uses CherryMX Browns which do not tend to die that easily.

I also have the 710 but with blue switches. My volume scroll wheel died in a year or two but it's also 8 years old now and apart from the volume wheel, it works just as well as the day I bought it. I just clean it twice a year.

Sturdy as heck for a keyboard that cost me 60 euros and I've used thousands of hours.

It was a G413 in my case, with Romer-G switches if I recall correctly.

I'm on my 5th Corsair keyboard with Cherry switches - they eventually always start double clicking, Corsair replaces the keyboard under warranty, rinse and repeat. It's awful from electronics waste point of view, but I just don't see those as very reliable products.

Curious. I'm on my 1st Corsair with Cherry switches. Bought it second-hand in as-new condition from a mate about 5 years ago, gave it its second clean last night, removed 1.5kg of cat fur, and it's as-new again.

It's an absolute tank and the ONLY thing I'd give it up for is a mint-condition Model M.

Maybe the keyboard has a bad debouncer [0] design rather than bad switches?

[0]: https://www.eejournal.com/article/ultimate-guide-to-switch-d...

Why would you buy a wireless keyboard for "daily work" which needs to be "no-fuss"?

You are putting your security at risk (who knows whether the encryption is secure or whether the Logitech drivers are backdoored), as well as your convenience since you'll need to charge it periodically and there's a good chance you'll forget it (or forgot to buy disposable batteries if that's what it uses) and be completely unable to use the keyboard for a while, and it will have more latency and may even fail to work due to interference; on top of that, you'll pay more for these drawbacks.

You should really only buy a wireless keyboard for very specialized needs where you need to move it around while not also moving the PC with it.

Simple. To keep my desk clean.

First of all, my threat vector doesn't contain wireless attacks, and we'd have more serious problems if we come to that.

Also, that thing can work probably while being charged, so no fuss. Otherwise, it can charge for a full day's worth of work in 15 minutes, which is just a coffee break. I know it's no advertisement since Sony is doing the same thing on many things for 10 years now?

The devices which are using disposable batteries last for 2-3 years in average, and warn well before they're going to run out of energy. So again, no unexpected power losses in that case.

Wireless keyboards neither have latency or interference issues at least for a decade for the type of work I'm doing. We're not selecting frequencies with DIP switches anymore.

I'm still using Logitech solar K750 first gen which is about 12 or so years old. Best no fuss keyboard I've ever had. Always ready, still holding charge, wireless just works all the time. One of my best purchases ever in regards of getting value out of spent money.

Having one less cable on your desk is neat. I used wireless keyboard for a while (and still use one with the computer that is connected to my TV).

I ended up moving back to wired keyboard though mostly because the wireless one tended to go to sleep and take half a second to a second reconnecting when woken.

Because that one keyboard (and a MX Master Mouse) can connect to 3 machines, one being a Macintosh Quadra. Also less desktop clutter.

If technically feasibly, I would pay a premium for every single device and peripheral to be wireless.

I want my desk to be 100% free of clutter and cables and am willing to live with having to recharge devices, paying a premium and am not at all concerned that someone would hack my wireless webcam.

With wireless charging and desk mats you may not even need to plug them in to charge them anymore.

And some of them just have a crazy good battery life.

I have a desktop Windows setup (connected directly to monitors, no dock) + laptop-connected-to-the-dock macbook setup, both connected to the same monitors. The two keyboards I use are wireless HHKB Pro Hybrid and wireless Apple Magic Keyboard (along with Apple's dedicated trackpad).

HHKB has an ok battery life, I swap out batteries about once every few weeks or so. The connection is fine, but I have to manually wake it up with a dedicated button after it goes to sleep, and it takes about 5 seconds to connect, and it doesn't always work on the first try. At worst, after another try, it works fine. Initial pairing process was a bit meh, but it wasn't terrible.

But Apple's keyboard is some sort of black magic when it comes to both battery life and connectivity (same with their trackpad tbh). I plug it in to charge maybe once every couple of months, and even then it doesn't get close to being fully drained (usually around 15-20% left by that point). And that's despite me using it for my full-time job. The connectivity is also wildly good. No need to hold a button to wake it up, I just press any key and it connects in a couple of seconds just flawlessly. Initial pairing or switching between different devices is braindead easy too (which I do daily, to switch between my personal and work macbooks). I just connect it to whichever machine I want to use it with using the included cable, then disconnect, and it is automatically wirelessly paired to that machine. It is just remarkable that I have been doing it for almost 2 years now, and not once have I had even a single hiccup.

Using Apple's keyboard was what convinced me to switch my Windows one to wireless as well (had a wired HHKB Pro 2 before that). No wires is just so convenient. And with the only downside being that sometimes my current HHKB sometimes takes 5 seconds to connect after waking up from sleep, it ended up being totally worth it (and with the Apple's MKB, there were zero downsides for me at all).

And I am saying this as someone who used to be all about wired-only mechanical keyboards for years and I still have a few with MX Reds/Browns/Blues sitting in my old equipment box.

It charges using a standard usb cable. With the RGB turned off, it lasts months at a time. It is usable as a standard usb keyboard while plugged in to charge.

I'm by no means a "keyboard person", but I do try to minimize my e-waste and and my costs.

Swappable keys aren't exactly a power-use feature. I remove my keycaps every so often to clean them, and swapping a broken switch is basically as easy using the keycap/switch tool that came with my board. It also means I can do a repair for a couple of dollars over buying a whole board. Not to mention I have a bunch of spare switches that came with my board so I can do a repair in a minute.

I ordered Nuphy Air 75 [1] and am waiting for the delivery. It is a low profile 75% board with 2.4GHz connection plus 3 bluetooth connections and has 3 switch options, all Gateron low profile. Has good online reviews, and for a custom mech board it isn't too expensive either. (Disclaimer: Not associated with them in any other way)

[1] https://nuphy.com/products/air75

Can the fn key be remapped to alt/opt? I like the layout but I use the right opt key more than the fn key.

I haven't gotten it myself but I believe they have a software to remap keys (windows only for now I think). Another bummer is that it isn't QMK compatible. Probably worth checking their forums or emailing customer care before placing an order.

I bought a decent mechanical keyboard (Cherry MX). No solder, no installing switches yourself, etc.

No fuss mechanical keyboard already exist. No need to ditch repairability, etc.

> anybody who needs a no-fuss, one-shot, buy-and-use-it-till-it-dies type of consumer.

If this is like my other Logitech keyboards, that's about 2.1 years.

...and if this is like my other Logitech peripherals, it's > 10 years.

You say the receiver will work with any OS, but is that true for their drivers? It's been a lot of years since I wrote off Logitech, but the reason I did was the lack of Linux support for the mouse I had bought.

It would constantly act like there was dust in the sensor (or so I thought) making erratic movements that could sometimes be reduced with a mouse pad. Finally I did some research and found out that without using their proprietary Windows only driver, the mouse would only operate in the lowest dpi setting.

I immediately drove to the store and bought the cheapest corded Kensington mouse they had, which was like $10 and a 1/10th of what that Logitech piece of shit cost. It was like I had a whole new computer, I spent way too long being idly frustrated with my overpriced mouse.

That was and will remain the last Logitech product I buy

Yes. I’m using a couple of Marathon mice (with 3+ year battery life), and a G700 mouse. All of them are working as intended.

G700 carries its settings on board, so all profiles are working completely with any OS. There was no customization software on Linux when I bought it, but that side also improved with Logitech tool and other projects over the years. G710+ has an out of tree driver, but I didn’t compile it due to laziness.

Logitech is the first company to support UVC class for webcams to enable Linux support. Also they’re the only HID company which supports Linux firmware update daemon as far as I know.

So your perception is not completely correct from my vantage point.

how dare you have simple yet unrefined tastes! how DARE YOU

I'd rather tend my fountain pen collection in that time instead.

Sorry for being so crude and tasteless.

:)

I'm also a mechanical keyboard aficionado and I always write with a fountain pen. It's probably not an uncommon correlation of interest, all things considered.

It's a common joke on r/fountainpens. I think there's a subreddit covering fountain pens, mechanical keyboards and, if my memory serves me, headphones.

That's something I like, a lot: https://preview.redd.it/occvkly0cd471.png?auto=webp&s=1427cf...

Luckily I'm well over the acquisition phase. I'm very happy with the pens I have and I basically rotate 5-7 pens, having 2 inked at most.

We probably can add automatic watches and fancy cameras & lenses to that list. Katana swords even..

This is also exactly the kind of thing I was looking for and the reason I bought a CODE Keyboard years ago when they came out. I don’t know whether my keys are swappable and I don’t care. I just wanted something to replace my Model M that has super and media keys and a backlight.

> Me, or anybody who needs a no-fuss, one-shot, buy-and-use-it-till-it-dies type of consumer.

I'm using a buy-and-use-it-till-it-dies mechanical keyboard that plugs into my USB port[0]. It doesn't need to be charged, won't die on me in the middle of typing, doesn't interfere with any of my Bluetooth / wireless spectrum. It's perfect for someone who's no-fuss.

[0] https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_det...

Me as well. I usually just go for the cheap $20-$40 keyboard that I know will break after about 12-18 months, and replace it. The only thing that I now pause on is 2.4ghz which REALLY sucks in an apartment. My last 2 wireless keyboards stopped working consistently (due to radio interference from what I can tell) and have been replaced with a second-hand alienware mechanical gaming keyboard.

It is quiet enough that I can type (albeit VERY slowly/softly) while I'm on a call, but nowhere near as quiet as the crappy logitechs I always get.

I have the gaming version of this keyboard and it's great: https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/products/gaming-keyboards/g9...

It never drops off, it feels great to type on. The lighting and everything is configurable, and will even light up the hot keys you need for a specific game!

It's a great experience. I have no interest in a customizable keyboard, I just want one that works.

Caveat: I broke the keycap on my = key within 6 months (my fault, it caught on my laptop when packing in a bag), and there's no market for single/small quantity keycap replacements (even blank) unlike keyboards using more standard Cherry switches so I'm just using the exposed switch.

If you don't try a few switches how do you know you got the best ones for your taste? Some are clicky, some are linear, some have double clicks (both going up and down), some are heavy, others are light.

The caps matter too - full height, half height, flat or with a small depression in the middle, various types of plastic, with painted symbols or injection molded symbols for light transparency.

Because a) I've used IBM buckling spring keyboards and b) I've tried a lot of them on displays at shops. There were also switch samplers on display, so I was able to do side by side comparisons.

My requirements were clear. Light, some feedback, not so noisy, which is squarely brown.

Caps were easy. Put your fingers. Write a Hello World code, see how it feels. Is it alright? Done.

I've used ~15 keyboards in my life, if not more. I know what I like and I'm looking for.

Good for you. I ordered a switch sampler online and 2-3 keyboards until I found one that works for me. It's hard to know what you'll like unless you use it for a few days.

For example I have a heavy + linear keyboard, I was originally disappointed by it but I grew into it in a few weeks. Now I love the energy I get from the rebound of the keys.

This comment perfectly sums up my experience trying to get into mechanical keyboards. So many choices and no good way of trying them out to figure out what I'd actually like.

Then go and buy a DAS keyboard. Reliable, simple, traditional key mappings, nothing fancy, and a usable volume knob.

If you want a cheap mechanical use-it-until-it-dies keyboard, I recommend https://www.prohavit.com/products/kb487l-tkl-mechanical-keyb... -- $69US

I hate to just pile onto the other recommendations, but you can get a beautiful ducky with real MX browns for only like $100. They're no-fuss and built great. Probably an extra $20-40 if you want individual RGB lit keys that can do whooshy rainbow effects.

Does "use-it-till-it-dies" mean if a single switch goes bad you'll just buy a whole new keyboard? If so, I recommend not spending so much on a mechanical as the ability to swap individual switches is one of the main things you're paying for.

If a single switch goes bad after 15 years of constant usage, I wouldn't feel so bad, to be honest. Considering the worst membrane keyboard I have is going strong after 10 years (which is a Microsoft keyboard), I believe this G710+ can last much more than that.

We have 20+ year old keyboards at office which are going strong and some are even connected via DIN to USB adapters.

So a good mechanical switch like a Cherry MX cannot be killed in a reasonable amount of time even if you use it daily without abusing it, if there's no defect in production.

I didn't change a Logitech peripheral due to malfunction until now. Some of these are used daily, non stop.

So, I'm not expecting this G710+ to apply for retirement soon.

Wait, is my i key not registering? Nope, just joking. :)

I’ve been using mechanical keyboards for at least a decade now and the only time I’ve had a switch go bad was when I spilled a drink on it. Technically it was still good but since it was a sugary drink the switch got sticky.

As many before me have said, I am a professional programmer. I don’t care nor have the time to replace switches. I have a backup keyboard that gets swapped in if a switch goes out. I’m never going to tear a board apart to replace a switch.

I spilled half a pint of beer into my kinesis advantage (cherry brown switches) and it worked fine after opening it and giving it a wipe down and letting it dry. Switches failing just isn't on my radar. I'd be more worried about the extra failure mode of the sockets needed for swappable switches. If it comes down to it I can solder in a new switch.

if you're looking for this: leopold is your jam.

Leopolds are great! High quality no fuss builds.

It looks like it uses Cherry's low-profile switches, so if you're looking for switch reviews, there's your keyword.

They are most likely "Kailh Choc V2". They are clones of "Cherry MX Low Profile" on the outside but not interchangeable due to a different pinout.

Some tech news sites have claimed that Kailh makes these. Kailh manufactures also the "Logitech GL" (Kailh Choc) and "Logitech GX" (Kailh's Cherry MX-clone). Cherry MXLP is not available in other than linear, and TTC's proper clone is not available in tactile.

<https://www.kailhswitch.com/mechanical-keyboard-switches/key...>

Not according to that page. Under specs, they have several flavors of “ Graphite MX Mechanical” switches.

The page says nothing about which make/model switches are used. Tactile/clicky/linear can be said about any switch manufacturer's offerings.

On that page, under "Specs & Details", the explicit models and part numbers are listed.

    Graphite MX Mechanical Tactile Quiet: 920-010547
    Graphite MX Mechanical Linear: 920-010548
    Graphite MX Mechanical Clicky: 920-010549
    Graphite MX Mechanical Mini Tactile Quiet: 920-010550
    Graphite MX Mechanical Mini Linear: 920-010551
    Graphite MX Mechanical Mini Clicky: 920-010552

Logitech makes its own switches (or at least claims to), so this is what we have.

While they have made their own switches in the past, these look exactly like premade switches. I don't feel that the model numbers serve to help identify the actual switch.

I can't tell between Choc V2s, or Cherry MX Low-Profile, but this review shows the switches in better (read: any) detail than Logitech's page: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/logitech-mx-mechanical-...

'MX' made me think it might have been Cherry, but the review says Chocs, so that's what I'll believe. MX is probably included to signal 'MX compatible stem'.

i think Logitech started with Cherry switches in their early mechanical keyboards and later they switched to their own switches, some are based on Cherry MXs and some are not..

From the name and some images my guess is that this ones are based on or at least compatible with the Cherry MX\MX Low profile switches..

But Logitech has the (bad) habit of mixing different models of switches in the same keyboard model.. I have two G512 here..

The first one, a tactile silent, use Romer-G switches, those are made by Logitech itself, not sure if anyone else use those.. they have their own Keycaps, not compatible with anything else AFAIK..

The other one, a tactile clicky, it uses GX Blue switches (their version of the Cherry MX Blue) that is compatbile with Cheery MX keycaps..

My guess would be that those Graphite MX are likely like their previous GX switches.. based on Cherry but manufactured by Logitech or some by some contractor on their behalf.. not much information out there about those yet..

Thanks, will keep that in mind.

Small correction to myself, but they're Kailh Chocs with an MX-compatible stem: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/logitech-mx-mechanical-...

But, they should be vaguely similar in feel. If you're looking for something clicky, the Kailh low-pro switches may be a better choice, since they developed their clickbar for the 'tactile event'. IMO, the clickbar switches are better than click jacket/etc for clicky switches.

Either way, you could order some loose switches as a sample before committing to one or the other. I'd not bother with the tactile (non-clicky) one, but that's just my own opinion.

> which can work with any OS, incl. firmware updates.

Keyboard that needs firmware updates? Yuck. It’s an input device. I’ll stick with my 12 year old WASD Code and Model M thank you very much.

/end boomer

Typing this from my WASD Code Keyboard, that I love - am on my third (mostly coffee spills, not mechanical failure)...

... you do realize that these guys have firmware updates, too?

https://support.wasdkeyboards.com/hc/en-us/articles/36001851...

I kind of would have expected a $175 keyboard to survive a coffee spill. It doesn't really happen anymore, but as a kid I must have spilled soda on my no-name keyboards once a month, with no ill effects.

One benefit of membrane keyboards is that the membrane would prevent liquids from reaching down into the sensor components.

That being said, I've resurrected my WASD Code keyboard a few times from coffee and water spills. It can be taken apart and cleaned with rubbing alcohol, left to dry, and reassembled pretty easily. I usually do this anyway every 18-24 months at this point for sanitary reasons.

No. Logitech sometimes push firmware updates for their receivers for security reasons.

While my G700 is also capable of firmware updates, they didn't push anything to it since I bought it a decade ago.

Yeah, security updates for my keyboard is not a selling feature.

Literally any keyboard running over USB has software. They’re not as simple devices as people think.

it is not for the keyboard.. it is for the wireless interface that it uses to connected to the computer and the dongle..

the unifying dongle had some security problems detected in the past that required firmware updates to fix..

The Logitech unifying receiver is FUBAR and no firmware updates will remedy that.

That's a pretty strong opinion on something so widely deployed and can work without any problems in a place which is very polluted with radio traffic and jamming in some frequencies.

I had a Microsoft Bluetooth mouse which constantly lost connection where I live. No Logitech receiver even skipped in that place.

You say it is an opinion but Logitech did abandon the receiver because they could not fix the security and instead released the Logitech Bolt with encrypted communication between peripherals, in order to not lose more corporate customers due to crappy security.

If my mind is not playing games with me, Unifying is around 10 years old at this point. It might be inadequate in today’s world, but it had a pretty good run for something like that.

They may had to make breaking changes to it at some point, but it’s already old technology, so moving to bolt doesn’t make Logitech an incompetent company in my eyes.

i guess this is why new products are using the Bolt receiver instead, that they claim is not compatible with the older Unifying receiver..

On the other hand, if the Bolt is any better then the Unifying only time will tell, but i do not have my hope up..

"What's that? I couldn't hear you over my keyboard clacking!"

I bought a mechanical keyboard with clicky blue switches and brought it to work at my open office company.

Very quickly my coworkers encouraged me to buy one with silent clear switches.

I now own two.

The clicky one stays at home.

I chose to WFH over RTO because I really like using my mechanical keyboard.

I want a mechanical keyboard that's as quiet as possible. I assume you did research to find the best options. Would you have any resources available?

Silent linear switches are the quietest. If that's not an option, then linear switches with o-rings.

Also you frequently get quite a lot of noise from the stabilizers on the large keys. Your only real option there is to lube them, but that's not really feasible on most off the shelf keyboards.

Quiet as possible: Reds (any company, I prefer Cherry).

Quiet enough that your coworkers won't hear it, yet very comfortable to type on for those new to mechanical keyboards: Browns.

Reds + orings, or brown + orings. A lot of the sound comes from someone bottoming out the keys.

I seriously discourage the use of orings. Rather, new users should practice _not_ bottoming out, which is why I recommend Browns for new users.

What’s the reasoning against o-rings?

Orings reduce the total travel, probably by about 6-8mm judging by their thickness though I've not measured it. Traditional Cherries would register at about 25mm and bottom out at about 40mm. So the user would have to train to depress to at least 30 but no more than 35 mm depth. That takes practice, and practice requires making mistakes. The orings bring the bottom of the stroke up into the range where the user needs to practice releasing the key on his own. If you're bottoming out on a mechanical keyboard, you are negating the real benefit of the device.

I've not used the low-profile switches, but I believe that they activate at around 12mm and also bottom out at a lesser depth though I don't know where.

This is why I highly recommend browns (any manufacturer) for new mechanical keyboard users. It is much easier to train on the tactile browns. You could do it with blues as well, but blues are just too noisy for office work, and gamers say that they have too long a reset stroke to be good for gaming. Once the user gets used to not bottoming out on browns, moving to a Cherry red keyboard is absolutely amazing. Typing on reds feels like floating on a cloud, it becomes an enjoyable experience in its own right, once you learn to effortlessly not bottom out.

This seems an awful lot like you demanding users have a particular skill you want them to have for $reasons. This is silly, use orings.

If the user is bottoming out on orings, then he might as well use a rubber dome keyboard. There is almost no benefit to using a mechanical keyboard if the user is bottoming out.

There are some terrific rubber dome keyboards. I actually use one occasionally as I like to rotate my equipment, to fend off the R in RSI.

I did not do tons of research but I ended up with Cherry MX Clears.

> open office company

They were so close to getting it, too.

There are tons of boards like that out there for far less money

Will it be so well rounded like the ones which are comparable in price with the MX (e.g. Das, Leopold, etc.), so I can buy one and use without any tweaking?

Or will they be supported by a warranty so well that they'll just send me a replacement without shipping anything back?

Remember, I've said I have no time. I want to plug and forget the device.

Yes. Literally tons of them. The only difference is that you might not be able to pick it up at Best Buy.

I’d not cross an ocean to get a keyboard from Best Buy.

Also, some of the most touted brands can’t be shipped to my country either.

Im in this boat. Give me a tkl and I'll buy it.

Yeah, throw an entire overpriced keyboard away because a single switch died. It's great for the wallet and the environment.

I've spent a huge amount of my life typing on a keyboard, and I've never had a switch fail. Is this a legitimate concern?

It’s more common on mechanical keyboards than membrane. I have had mechanical switches start double clicking. Never had a membrane keyboard fail.

It’s obviously a YMMV kind of thing, but I’ve had mechanical keyboards in the past with failing switches (one Cherry MX switch, and three Matias Quiet Click switches on three different keyboards!).

Matias Quiet Click are very prone to this. I've had 3 fail on one board and 2 on another.

I don’t think it’s going to die for another decade, but we’ll see.

If the push comes to shove, I think I can solder a single switch from a major manufacturer. I’m not the one to shy away from a soldering iron at the end of the day.

buy-and-use-it-till-you-lose-the-dongle

I've lost every dongle I've ever had ... never again.

Logitech is a moribund company dribbling out sadly degraded products. For example, their once-respectable wireless mice are now nearly unusable because 2/3 of scroll-wheel movements are ignored.

You know a peripheral company is dead when, as of last year or so, they still didn't have peripherals with USB-C connectors.

I suspect that "use it 'til it dies" is going to be a lot shorter than you expect, with the new Logitech.

This keyboard has USB-C, as do many of Logitech's other products.

After looking at the product listing, it's pretty clear who it's for. Non-techfolk that want to try out a mechanical keyboard. Or heck the older techies who haven't kept up with stuff, but miss the tactile feel of KBs of the 70s/80s.

Other mechanical keyboards have different switch-types listed, but even as a user of a mech keyboard for a decade now I couldn't tell you which is which without looking it up. Logitech simplified it with "Tactile Quiet", "Linear", and "Clicky". You immediately know which style is for you without having to consult some switch tactile/loudness chart or ask the mechanical keyboard cult for their take. They've lowered the bar of entry into the mechanical keyboard market. Do other companies do the same or go the extra mile to simplify the process? Probably, but it carries a lot more weight when the biggest name in computer peripherals does it.

As for me, I might give it a go eventually. If they take a cue from the MX mouse series with how damn customizable it is binding buttons to actions, then I'll definitely be grabbing it.