News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by JohnnyConatus on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @09:38AM (#13922038)
There is a legendary story about how Steve Jobs, upon his return to Apple, drastically cut-down the number of models that they offer. How on earth have they forgotten that lesson? Trying to figure out the differences between the 9.7" iPad and iPad pro is not easy, and regardless, it makes it harder to buy.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by squeaky-clean on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:15AM (#13922340)
I always thought that was the iDevice's strength. With Android, you have nothing actually made by Google but by OEMs, with different names and branding that don't give any real information.

Which phone is "the android"? My mom doesn't think she has an android phone, she thinks she has an LG and that Android is a different thing. People buy a low end Android phone and hate the entire ecosystem because the phone performs like crap. I have a friend who thinks the Galaxy S7 would be a crappy upgrade because they already have a "Galaxy Core Prime".

When there was just the iPhone, it was really easy. It was expensive compared to other options, but you knew it was the best iPhone, and the one with a higher number was better than one with a lower number. Yet an LG G5 is better than a Samsung Galaxy S6, they are somehow both "Android", and Marshmallow is better than Jelly Bean.

Now the iPhone isn't that bad, but it's not simple anymore. iPhone 7, iPhone 7Plus, iPhone 7S, iPhone 7S Plus, iPhone SE. Which is better?

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by alasdair_ on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:29PM (#13923763)
I have a pixel. Before that, I had a nexus 6. Both say "Google" on them and both were purchased because they were the canonical versions of Android without any of the crapware other vendors add.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by grrowl on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:40PM (#13928096)
Only nerds can keep up with which is the "canonical" Android. All my non-tech friends have Samsung, LG, HTC, or Sony phones. The nerds have Nexus or Google phones.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by chii on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @06:25AM (#13929769)
which is just poor advertising and marketing from google. If they did the same amount and effort in marketing the nexus devices (or for god's sake, just call them google phones!), it will become a brand that can rival apple's.

Now, of course, google perhaps don't want that to happen, since the other big manufacturers will not like it, and that marketing isn't their core business.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by fastball on Friday March 31, 2017 @11:06AM (#14004537)
You might be interested in this website.

https://www.stockdroids.com

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by mulletbum on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:48PM (#13923939)
Which has a better proc and camera? I'll guess Nexus 6 because 6 comes after what must be the Pixel 1.

Naming schemes are terrible.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by Touche on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @01:24PM (#13924277)
I've never heard such a confusion when it comes to TV purchases.

Life is imperfect and changing products require a little research. You can't just go to the store and buy the best socks either; if you want the best you got to do research. Thems the breaks.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by cortesoft on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @01:51PM (#13924505)
Well, thems WASN'T the breaks with Apple for a long time, and they did quite well.

The person you replied to was trying to make the argument that a vendor can sell more product if they make the hierarchy of quality more clear to the consumer. Saying 'things are imperfect, as a consumer you just have to deal with it' doesn't really address his argument.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by Touche on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @02:20PM (#13924747)
It addresses it with counter examples that indicate that a "hierarchy of quality" is not something that really exists in consumer products. The fact that so many companies chose not to make the hierarchy clear is an indication that such a hierarchy isn't valuable to them.

Look at the luxury car sector. https://www.audiusa.com/models#sedans/ Can you tell the quality by its naming convention? I can't. I can sort of assume some quality hierarchy by the price though.

The fact that Apple has abandoned the "one phone, one tablet" model indicates to me that it hasn't been a valuable strategy for them.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by jbangert on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @06:31PM (#13926895)
Car companies (at least European ones) tend to be pretty transparent about this: - Audi (example): letter (car/SUV/race car)+ number (quality: 1-cheap, 8-luxury) - BMW: first number is a quality class, two numbers is the Engine size. - Mercedes: first letter is a quality class, number is the engine.

Other luxury consumer goods use pretty similar schemes, e.g. Audio gear (e.g. bang + olufsen: the higher the number the better, with some number of meaningless zeroes added depending on fashion).

One observation might be that these companies all have halo products that are used to anchor/promote the volume offerings that drive revenue (e.g. The Audi r8 and the a3, the 90k speakers and the 1k set)

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by mpd on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:02PM (#13927980)
> Audi (example): letter (car/SUV/race car)+ number (quality: 1-cheap, 8-luxury) - BMW: first number is a quality class, two numbers is the Engine size. - Mercedes: first letter is a quality class, number is the engine.

You need to already know the brand to know this.

> (quality: 1-cheap, 8-luxury)

How high does it go? If they decide to turn it up to 11 tomorrow, is 8 still "luxury"?

I can't agree that this sort of versioning is any more transparent.

> (e.g. The Audi r8 and the a3, the 90k speakers and the 1k set)

This means nothing unless you already know the brand. There's going to be a minimum set of knowledge required to understand these versioning schemes.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by reitanqild on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @07:10AM (#13929977)
There's going to be a minimum set of knowledge required to understand these versioning schemes.

Growing up in Europe seems to be enough wrt to Audi.

I'm not interested in cars but I have still picked this up somehow. Same with BMW.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by jacobush on Thursday March 23, 2017 @06:45AM (#13938668)
This. They have been doing this for decades. Also Audi "8" something is equal to BMW "8" something.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by saturdaysaint on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @08:46AM (#13930423)
To 95%+ of the consumer market, a TV is a dumb commodity. Dollars per inch is basically all that matters for the sale, and relative picture quality is forgotten about as soon as a consumer watches one show.

On the other hand, I think most Android users I know have told me a story about buying the "wrong" Android phone.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by Touche on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @12:42PM (#13932413)
Phones are commodities too. We can debate at what stage of commoditization it currently is in, but clearly that's where it's headed, and the days of you being able to just grab one with minimal research the same way you can with TVs is coming.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by jimbokun on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @02:52PM (#13925040)
I would be very surprised if many people are not confused about their high end TV purchase, and trying to figure out which ones are better and why.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by freehunter on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @07:24PM (#13927207)
Shit I just spent 20 minutes at the store the other day trying to figure out why one HP printer was $80, the next was $120, another was $150, and the most expensive was $200. Other than the size of the box, I had no idea what the difference was. One of them had a fax built in, but surprisingly that wasn't the most expensive model. The most expensive model didn't have the fax.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by GFischer on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @09:45AM (#13930810)
Both Android phones and high-end TVs are good examples of what Scott Adams calls "Confusopoly" :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confusopoly

heck, mobile phones are the canonical example.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by Infinitesimus on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:56PM (#13924010)
Pixel is mass market, Nexus is not. Only enthusiasts know that Nexus was a precursor to the Pixel so that comparison will probably never happen to the average consumer. Heck Google even avoids saying the Pixel runs Android
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by timeal on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @09:48PM (#13927939)
Mass market? Today the Pixel brand regroups only high-end products.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by cmdr_plx on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @03:09PM (#13933770)
Guess he meant the Pixel is a "consumer product", unlike the Nexus which was essentially aimed at Android developers.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by xd1936 on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @02:21PM (#13924753)
iPad

iPad 2

The new iPad (with Retina display)

The new iPad (with Retina display) (again)

iPad Air

iPad Air 2

iPad Pro

iPad (announced today)

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by saagarjha on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @02:46PM (#13924985)
And that's without the iPad Mini…
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by lando2319 on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @09:23PM (#13927833)
I believe this one the "IPad 9.7" replaces the "IPad Air"
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by ComputerGuru on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @07:50AM (#13930158)
We are a bunch of hackers and even we are not sure/can't get this right.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by yabatopia on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @02:03PM (#13924605)
I agree Google has a terrible track record with naming products or services - although not as bad as Microsoft - but you're exagerrating a bit.

The step from Nexus 6 tot Pixel isn't that difficult to understand (and you even forgot the Nexus 6P, the successor of the Nexus 6!). Car manufactures launch new models all the time, without much problems. If someone gets confused by such thing, maybe that person is better of with a feature phone.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by mulletbum on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:33PM (#13928285)
My comment wasn't supposed to single out Android, but it seems that HN feels I did.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by kbutler on Saturday March 25, 2017 @10:17AM (#13955737)
Yeah, just look at the deal I scored on an Xbox 360! They wanted more money for an Xbox 1! And don't even ask about that Tandy 1000!
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by jerkstate on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:04PM (#13927985)
I had a Galaxy Nexus on Verizon. Fool me once...
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by talldan on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:03AM (#13922786)
There's also the 3G, 3GS, 4S, 5S, 5C, 6S, 6 Plus, 6S Plus

Looking back, there were always non-descriptive names, and inconsistencies.

I'd argue that not knowing what 'Android' is actually demonstrates the technology has reached its goal of being universal. It's implicit instead of explicit. People buy it without needing to know what it is. Why would most consumers care about the name of an operating system? It's unimportant. It's not like I remember the exact model of my TV or car, the important thing is that I can watch one and drive the other.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by squeaky-clean on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @04:18PM (#13925834)
I've actually been saying this since the 3G came out, so we sort of agree. I thought that was the start of the stupidest naming convention, and we're all just watching it get worse throughout the years. At least until the 6 they weren't releasing multiple phones at the same time.

I'm just waiting for "iPhone 10, iPhone 10 Plus, iPhone 10 Air, iPhone 10 Air Plus, iPhone 10 Pro, iPhone 10 Pro Plus, iPhone SE 3, iPhone SE 3G"

> It's not like I remember the exact model of my TV or car

I really hope you know the make, model and year of your car, you need that for basic repairs. My 2004 Corolla takes parts of a 2003-2007 Corolla for most repairs, and runs best with a certain type of oil. Why would you not know this for an expensive device requiring maintenance?

Your TV isn't the same. It doesn't matter if it's 720p, 1080p, or 4k, or what the color resolution is, if it has an HDMI cable that will work.

Your phone is more like a car in that comparison. Things change so frequently, new software, updates (lack of updates), new wireless or hardware standards... An iPhone 5 in 2012 is a very different experience than an iPhone 5 in 2017. But I'm still using the same cheap Dynex "HD" TV for a decade. I can plug in a disk player or streaming device that weren't even conceived of when my TV was sold.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by moonbug on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @05:44PM (#13926547)
> Why would you not know this for an expensive device requiring maintenance?

Because when it breaks or needs maintenance they take it to a garage like any normal person.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by reitanqild on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @07:14AM (#13930001)
I guess you didn't plan on labeling a whole lot of people as not normal? ;-)
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by recursive on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @10:36AM (#13931253)
> runs best with a certain type of oil

I'm 36, and I didn't know this. I thought there was a universal scale of goodness for oil. I bought a new car last summer, and I couldn't tell you the exact model either. I think this is fairly common.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by talldan on Saturday March 25, 2017 @07:18AM (#13955056)
I do know the basic make, model and year (it's on the number plate in the UK). However, there are lots of extra letters and numbers that identify the exact model. It's all documented, so no need to actually remember it.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by pythonaut_16 on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:29AM (#13923050)
I agree that all of the sub-versions of the iPhone are slightly confusing, but at least they generally follow a pattern.

There's always a clear progression, a higher number is always better than a lower number, and adding an S is an incremental upgrade over the non-S version. The Plus is always a larger size than normal.

The G series and C series have complicated things, but generally speaking you just have to pick a number and then pick one of ~3 options at that level.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by jimbokun on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @02:56PM (#13925093)
"iPhone 7, iPhone 7Plus, iPhone 7S, iPhone 7S Plus, iPhone SE. Which is better?"

Bigger numbers are still better. "Plus" means the big screen. S is off year version, incremental upgrade on the previous number. Agreed SE is the odd one out, but don't think it's too hard for consumers to figure out "its the cheap one".

Because new iPhone models are introduced only once a year to great global fanfare, I bet a lot of consumers actually know the meaning of the version conventions very well.

Agreed on iPad and Mac versions, though, those are a mess.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by nkkollaw on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:40AM (#13922542)
It's still not that bad.

It's always a version number (ex., 7), the following version they add an 'S' (ex., 7S), then the following version they will increase the version number (ex., 8). "Plus" means bigger, and you can regognize it because it's bigger, "SE" means lower-end, you can recognize it because it costs a lot less.

I currently own a Huawei Y6II, which I read is a clone of the P9. No idea what it means, what the following version will be called, or what the previous version was called.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by squeaky-clean on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:12AM (#13922872)
> "Plus" means bigger, and you can regognize it because it's bigger, "SE" means lower-end, you can recognize it because it costs a lot less.

It's also a smaller phone, just like how the Plus is larger and costs more, but isn't any faster. The name or price of SE doesn't imply lower end at all, they've even removed the number so you don't know which one it's comparable to.

I agree it's not awful, just that it's slipping.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by nkkollaw on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:23AM (#13922976)
I don't know, I tried switching to PCs for a while, I couldn't get how their naming works.

I mean, where do you even begin to try to figure this out: http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by komali2 on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:05PM (#13923477)
You just look at the hardware and read reviews. There isn't really a sliding scale for PCs, that's the awesome thing about manufacturers that let you customize. Doing a lot of gaming or modelling? Better graphics card. Running shitloads of processes? Better ram. Better processor. Extra HDD, or SSD, or optical drive? Etc.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by throwaway91111 on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @01:48PM (#13924491)
Nothing about driver compatibility :( it's a long and painful process to figure out if the computer you want will even work with the software you want to use.

Of course I'm sure it's better if you use the blessed OS and version pair, but I've never found a reason to use windows before....

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by krisdol on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @03:41PM (#13925485)
Driver compatibility could be hell in windows as well if you're cursed with a "switchable" graphics option. My last lenovo could switch between on-board and dedicated graphics, but the latest video driver that lenovo provided was from the year before I even bought the laptop. If I used the card manufacturer's drivers, they'd usually work but killed the ability to switch to on-board graphics; but if I used Lenovo's drivers, games performed very badly due to how out of date they were.

Having one manufacturer and fewer models usually means longer and more consistent product support.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by nkkollaw on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:56PM (#13924014)
So, because they aren't sane enough to figure out a naming scheme that makes sense, I have to waste hours or days looking at reviews just to understand what the difference is between the models? From what I could understand it's possible that the X67L is a good laptop, the X67LX is a crappy low-cost plastic netbook. How dumb is that.

Also, why do they ask me if my laptop is for work or home? What if I use it for both (which I do)? It doesn't make any sense.

I bought the new MacBook Pro mostly because of macOS, but also because I couldn't figure out how PC name their products, nor why they have to have 50 different barely-different models.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by pbhjpbhj on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @01:14PM (#13924170)
>X67L is a good laptop, the X67LX is a crappy low-cost plastic netbook. How dumb is that. //

To me that's not half as frustrating as the companies that sell a, let's say 755cx and then create a new model a few years later and call that 755cx ... how bloody annoying [like hey, this review is from 7 years before the thing was made, and it's a completely different system]. Or worse still, not have a model number to refer to. I think the worst I had was trying to find parts for a Toshiba laptop, IIRC, there were about 5 different models in 10 years with the same designation, like lets just call all our new laptops the "Laptop New" what could possibly be wrong with that.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by davnn on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @05:49PM (#13926587)
Coming from the PC universe, the process is different.

1. Define: You first decide what you actually want 2. Search: Your search is entirely based on value for money (you have defined value before) 3. Decide: You read reviews and decide which one to take 4. Buy: Find the cheapest offer

Not once should you have to care about the name of the product, it simply does not matter.

There should be more than enough databases that let you sort and filter the latest notebooks.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by nkkollaw on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @06:30PM (#13926886)
If it doesn't matter, they should pick easier ones.

They lost at least myself as a customer. I doubt I'm the only one on the planet who didn't buy a PC because he couldn't figure out the offer.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by komali2 on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @08:07PM (#13927472)
Well, to be honest, it sounds like you care about the "name" and thus the value the company trying to sell you a product wants you to believe that product is worth.

So apple could release the iPhone 8 with the same specs as the 3GS, and you'd get bamboozled because you can't be bothered to do your research before purchasing something.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by michaelmrose on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @03:38PM (#13925463)
You make this sound bizarrely difficult given a defined price range you could probably pick a decent laptop based on amazon reviews in 15 minutes and be pretty happy with it.

If you want to play real pc games get a desktop or a console unless you have a lot of money to spend.

How do you deal with the rest of the consumer universe? I'm betting you get along just fine.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by nkkollaw on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @04:16PM (#13925805)
> How do you deal with the rest of the consumer universe? I'm betting you get along just fine.

Yes, because I couldn't care less. I do care about my laptop, though. If anything because it's 1,500 or more.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by komali2 on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @04:24PM (#13925880)
So, since you care, doing research to get the right one doesn't seem unreasonable at all to me.

I put in a solid hour of research at least before buying a new pair of boots. It took me many hours over many days to choose a camera. Took me weeks to build my PC. Each of those products I put in an amount of research that's at least somehow correlated with the price I paid for them (boots -> 100$ -> camera 600$ -> PC $1300)

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by srssays on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @04:58PM (#13926156)
They are running a business. Presumably they want people to buy things. Making potential customers do research because the product line is opaque is just throwing away good leads.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by komali2 on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @08:08PM (#13927481)
Presumably they would want to sell you the lowest-cost-to-manufacture product for the highest price. So, the more you know about the product, the worse for them, because it removes an opportunity to obfuscate.

So, yea, research is a bit tricky, but that's good because the reason it's tricky is because you aren't depending on the company to tell you the real value of their product.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by vacri on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @05:19PM (#13926344)
The idea of researching something that you care about... annoys you?
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by nkkollaw on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @06:32PM (#13926902)
Researching doesn't annoy me.

What annoy me are the people that are supposed to make researching easy (for their own good) but make it a lot harder than it should be.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by vacri on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @05:16PM (#13926320)
> I mean, where do you even begin to try to figure this out: http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/

... by reading the subtitles?

I like lenovo laptops and I agree that they have too many model lines, but apart from a couple of subtitles, most of them are descriptive of that particular line.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by Spooky23 on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @07:17AM (#13930011)
Computers are easy. Try figuring out business printers. My colleague who was leading the effort was ready to gouge out his eyes.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by throwaway91111 on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @01:47PM (#13924477)
How do you figure that se means lower end? It's the only model with that size screen; I'd think that's the determinant for a lot of people.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by ComputerGuru on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @07:53AM (#13930176)
iPhone is OK. Now explain iPad to me.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by behnamoh on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:43AM (#13922563)
This. Back when there was only one iPhone to buy, it made the decision for the customers really easy: either you buy it, or you don't. But now, you gotta consider different specs and models Apple is providing, and choose from a plethora of devices... When you have multiple options, choosing one gets much difficult.

Now, don't Apple Executives know this already? I guess they do, but what Tim Cook has done so far has been stabilizing the company and increasing the profit (by building various versions of the same product and targeting a broader range of people).

This came at a cost though: making the organization more and more bureaucratic leads to more efficiency, but less creativity and innovation. I think Apple's strategy has changed but in a few years, they're going to need a fresh air in the company or they'll get Nokia-ed.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by simonh on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:21PM (#13923679)
Each year they bring out three different sized models. Big, medium and small. Or you can buy an old one.

Yes there are feature differences, if you are a techie or a gamer or into photography, but bigger always means better. It really isn't rocket science.

The iPad and Mac laptop lineups are a bit of a mess at the moment though. I think that's mainly because they're in various stages of technology transitions such as retina displays, wide colour gamut, touch bar and Apple Pencil support. They're pushing aggressively into new technologies and manufacturing processes and I think that's creating problems for them.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by scarface74 on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:22PM (#13923695)
You don't have to consider different specs. Whether you buy an A8 powered iPhone SE, an A9 powered iPhone 6s, or an A10 powered iPhone 7, you get a very well performing phone that is probably going to run the latest OS for the next 3 - 5 years.

The only thing you have to consider is what size you prefer, the color, and the amount of memory.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by throwanem on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @06:03AM (#13929662)
The SE has an A9; its guts are basically those of a 6s, minus Force Touch and the second-gen fingerprint sensor. With yesterday's rev to storage, I guess its guts are basically now those of a 6s+.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by sidcool on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:52AM (#13923309)
I believe the cheaper, albeit slow performing Android phones are revolutionizing the developing countries. People who could never afford a shiny Apple phone and its ecosystem are thriving due to Android.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by toddmorey on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:18PM (#13923634)
That's not really against the commenter's point, though. I think the argument is that Apple had a clearly defined and differentiated product with the iPhone, and model creep can be considered a threat to that clarity. (As good as Android has been for a wide range of users, it's tough to stand out as a device maker.)
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by nik736 on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:48PM (#13923941)
Well, I am from Germany and am using a Mac but I dislike the new iPhones and Android (for example MIUI) is not worse than iOS, the only downside is the missing iCloud integration.

I had many iPhone devices in the past (ranging from the first to the 5, which was my last) and with the iPhone 6 it went downhill in my opinion. This is where I switched to Xiaomi and never looked back.

So it's not only in developing countries, for example I prefer my Xiaomi Mi5 Pro over any iPhone device that is out there.

They have their flagship every year and so it's pretty easy so know what to pick. The Tablet part is lacking but the MiPad 3 is in the works.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by pbhjpbhj on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @01:17PM (#13924195)
>and Android (for example MIUI) is not worse than iOS //

I prefer stock Android but my latest phone has MIUI. It's OK, but I don't want someone else's tailoring I want my own; why can't companies offer their own settings but leave devices open for those who want to change. Yes, "support" but just have a "support and warranty will be limited by changing this setting" with a tick box and an "are you sure?" nag and let me return my device to stock. Grrr. /rant

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by dmix on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:18AM (#13922370)
It's quite obvious the Pixel is the "flagship" Android Google phone. And Pixel C is the "flagship" Android tablet.

The pixel is advertised everywhere as a Google phone. Who makes it doesn't really come up in their product communication much.

And the 'flagship' label is literally in the title of the Pixel products on Amazon. And on the website it's called "Pixel, phone by Google".

> People buy a low end Android phone and hate the entire ecosystem because the phone performs like crap.

This seems like an antiquated view of Android. I don't think people see Apple as having a monopoly on luxury/quality devices anymore. And considering the heavy OS modifications made by different companies and the entire UX experience of dealing with a company (customer service, website, accessories, etc), I don't really see why it matters if your mom thinks she has a "Samsung" or an "LG". There's more to Android phones than the base OS.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by squeaky-clean on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:21AM (#13922386)
For people on Hacker News, sure. But try asking your grandma what the flagship Android phone is and what the flagship Apple phone is. It is much more confusing for the average person than you'd think.

> I don't really see why it matters if your mom thinks she has a "Samsung" or an "LG".

Because when people ask if she has an Android she says "No."

> There's more to Android phones than the base OS.

I know, that's my complaint. It really adds nothing for the customer to have it be so fragmented.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by cylinder714 on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:26PM (#13923727)
In fairness, if you asked your grandma what the flagship Ford or Chevrolet car was, she wouldn't know, either.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by traviscj on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @05:04PM (#13926194)
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by gambiting on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @06:19AM (#13929745)
And of course the answer changes depending on where you're from. Over here, you can't buy the Taurus, so I would probably say Ford Mondeo or Ford Edge.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by vacri on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @05:22PM (#13926371)
> But try asking your grandma what the flagship Android phone is and what the flagship Apple phone is

Most people would just say 'iphone', not knowing which model is the 'flagship'.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by taeric on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:54AM (#13923341)
It is also fairly obvious that the pixel will be abandoned in about 2 years max. Since it was previously obvious that the Nexus was their flagship.

It isn't as bad as it was 2 years ago, where the main google phone would get updates, but was nigh unusable with the latest operating system. I still fully expect my nexus 6 to be basically abandoned by them within a year or so now.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by antisthenes on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:00PM (#13923421)
It's not obvious at all. It isn't even obvious if you spend 8 hours on research and are a techie.

What was the flagship before the Pixel? What was the flagship 2 years ago? The android market probably has a changing flagship every 6 months and even then it isn't obvious what it is.

Try typing "flagship android phone" into Google search. Pixel only comes up in 8-9 results out of 100.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by dragonwriter on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @03:40PM (#13925481)
"Android" is not a hardware manufacturer; each manufacturer has its own flagships, just like Apple does. That Apple is also their own (and only their own) OS vendor doesn't mean "flagships" apply per-OS.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by talldan on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @03:37PM (#13925458)
The term 'flagship' is confusing for Android, as each manufacturer that ships an Android device typically has their own flagship phone as well.

However, I think most Android consumers don't care about whether a phone is flagship. I imagine most tend to be more interested in finding a comfortable balance between price and features.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by dboreham on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @06:04PM (#13926691)
Everyone knows that Flagship is a cheese.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by gvurrdon on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @06:48AM (#13929873)
I've not heard of the cheese, but the beer is very good:

http://www.sheltonbrothers.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/HO...

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by dboreham on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @11:56AM (#13931940)
https://www.cheeserank.com/post/beechers-flagship-cheddar

You'll find it all around Seattle and at Costco in neighboring states. When you get off a plane at SeaTac they hand you a free sample.

Ok I was kidding about the free sample at SeaTac... Only a little...there is a Beecher's store and cafe there.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by tgragnato on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:25AM (#13922421)
You missed one, I just opened their home and this ad appeared "Buy iPhone 7 (PRODUCT)RED™ Special Edition" (4,7in , 5,5in), order starting at 8:01 a.m. PDT on 3.24.

> Every purchase contributes to the Global Fund to support HIV/AIDS programs and help deliver an AIDS-free generation.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by nkkollaw on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:37AM (#13922519)
They've had those for ages, though...
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by kristianc on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @06:17PM (#13926801)
Nope, the Red iPhones have literally just been released. They've been available in iPod Touch for ages.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by tgragnato on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:58AM (#13922725)
I did not know, I'm not crazy about the color, but I love the concept ! ...

It is super nice to read that apple does something for those in need ( sorry Apple, the tax evasion techniques are not a good marketing strategy, instead this is great ).

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by nkkollaw on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:20AM (#13922946)
I always get (PRODUCT)RED covers, because I really like that red.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by cylinder714 on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:20PM (#13923655)
My nephew bought an iPhone 6s Plus the other day at a Walmart, and the signage clearly showed the range of phones from 7 to SE, along with prices, so picking out the newer, high-end phone was a simple matter.

I see, when looking at http://www.apple.com/iphone/ on my phone that the product line is arrayed at the top, with the 7 labeled as "New".

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by anaclet0 on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @05:01PM (#13926169)
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by lacampbell on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @02:49PM (#13925007)
A lot of people will conflate Samsung with Android here (NZ). So Samsung is the iPhone alternative with a different OS, rather than android.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by jacobush on Thursday March 23, 2017 @07:01AM (#13938731)
Same in Sweden. People ask, "you have a Samsung charger?" (Meaning micro-usb in general)
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by lukas099 on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @10:41AM (#13931280)
I have a "crappy" $50 Android phone and I love it. Galaxy Express 3. It gets the job done, has expandable storage, and I don't feel bad when I inevitably drop it in water or lose it.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by dbalan on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:13AM (#13922882)
Its nice to give consumers choice, but it puts extereme pressure on Apple to commit to their things works across every apple product policy. Most of loyal [non dev] apple consumers count on this.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by soperj on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:43PM (#13923904)
At the end of the day, Google doesn't care if people don't know they're using Android, so long as they're using the google services.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by pjmlp on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @01:34PM (#13924370)
Hence why they don't care about OS updates as Play Services run all the way down to 4.0.

So who cares if the customer owns a device full of security holes, they still get their money.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by tbrock on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @02:25PM (#13924794)
Higher numbers are newer/better, everyone on the planet understands this.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by cocktailpeanuts on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:45AM (#13922589)
One of the reasons why he did that was because Apple was dying. They didn't have money and resources to support many models, and they needed to focus and do one thing right. So it was the right decision.

As much as I like simplicity, if you look around there are tons of cases like this around us, and that's not because these companies are idiots who don't understand simplicity but it's because their products have reached saturation point where making it simple won't get more users. They need to expand horizontally by building variations that appeal to a wider audience.

Sure it's kind of annoying, and you and I may not understand the benefits of the 9.7 inch iPad, but I am sure there are many people who understand exactly the benefits of 9.7 inch iPad vs iPad pro and will rush to buy them.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by sushisource on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @01:17PM (#13924202)
Wait, really? You and I being readers of Hacker News are probably in a better position than 90%+ of customers to understand the benefits of one iPad over another. If it's not clear to us... who is it clear to?
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by threeseed on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @03:52PM (#13925588)
Be very careful about that line of reasoning. My experience is that IT educated people are the least in touch with the mainstream world.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by mjburgess on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @02:59PM (#13925140)
That's not how price hurdles work.

Products are segmented according to price, not features. There's a different market at each point and this determines what they will get -- not the reverse.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by cocktailpeanuts on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @02:05PM (#13924620)
It's exactly because we're on HN we are not aware of this need. It's a big world out there.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by gurkendoktor on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @05:09PM (#13926239)
> They didn't have money and resources to support many models

They have money now, but do they have the resources? Apple's software quality has arguably taken a nosedive, and they've started missing deadlines even for hardware.

Assuming a kind time traveler gave 1997 Apple a few billion US$; could Apple simply have bought its way out of its problems?

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by valarauca1 on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:19PM (#13923648)
Under Jobs during the early days they never sold many products at once.

There was the old Apple II and new Apple II. Seeing as they went past 6 revisions of Apple II there was considerable churn.

There was never much of a 1st party peripheral market. Like we see with iWatch. That nearly exclusively 3rd party.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by ajross on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:30PM (#13923769)
> Under Jobs during the early days they never sold many products at once.

Depends on how early you go. The II+ was a straightforward upgrade to the ][ that replaced it, but the IIe was sold alongside the II+ for a long time. And then it refused to disappear while they sold the IIc and then IIgs. And don't forget the not-quite-part-of-the-family Apple III!

Up through the early 80's they had a clean lineup. After that there were as many as four different variants on the Apple II in the market at a time.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by mschaef on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @07:10PM (#13927122)
I've wondered that too... When Jobs came back, he drew four quadrants along two axes: pro/consumer and laptop/desktop. The product line was then reduced to an offering in each quadrant. It was easy to understand what you should look at when going to shop.

But there are a couple structural issues with this model that have made it hard to sustain.

The first is that it can represent money left on the table.... a sort of quantization error induced by the product line. Maybe there are worthwhile markets that don't spring for the professional line, but still want something more than the basic consumer line. This creates something of a temptation to try to address those markets.

The second structural issue is that the four quadrant model is based on saying no to ideas that might come from good people (or at least people entrenched in the corporate bureaucracy). Maybe doing this a few times is easy, but the more creative your organization, the more often you'll have ideas that will be difficult to fit into whatever product line strategy you've put together.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by JohnBooty on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @08:13AM (#13930252)
What? I had exactly the opposite reaction. Since this replaces the iPad Air, to me this is a return to sanity.

- iPad Pro - iPad - iPad Mini

This seems ideal.

If you are a "Pro" you surely don't mind spending a few minutes looking up the differences of the "Pro" model to see if it's something you need.

If you are not a "Pro" your choices are now, Do I want the regular one or the mini one?

Previously non-pros were faced with the conceptually bizarre choice of *Do I want the air one or the mini one?" which sounds like the ramblings of a crazy person.

Like... "Air" and "Mini"... what a weird choice. They both sound like super-portable models. OK. But... super-portable compared to... what, exactly? There were no "regular" models, only "variants." What were they varying from?

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by austenallred on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @01:36PM (#13924396)
While that's true, Apple grew to have a wide variety of products during Jobs' tenure as well. In 2007 there was the iPod Nano, Touch, Shuffle, and Classic, for example.

So it may be that different times call for different strategies. Perhaps the lesson is that you should focus intensely in the beginning and ship varieties once the product has reached a certain level of maturity?

I'm not in a place to say, but sometimes I wonder if we could go back in time and replay "Apple with Steve Jobs" while believing Steve Jobs to dead how often we would say, "Steve Jobs must be rolling over in his grave."

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by Lockyy on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @02:40PM (#13924923)
The thing with the various iPods was that they were at least different.

The three iPad lines are all fundamentally the same device with differing screen sizes.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by djrogers on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @08:12PM (#13927493)
To most people the iPods differed by size. The iPod was biggest, the mini was smaller, and the nano was tiny.

The iPad is prett much the same - you need a plain iPad? Ok, mini or 9.7"? You need a pro iPad? Ok, 9.7 or 12.9 inch?

Fundamentally this new 9.7 doesn't hangs anything - the iPad Air 2 is replaced by it in the non-pro, less expensive iPad lineup.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by puranjay on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @01:39PM (#13924421)
Recently dropped by the local Apple store here. I was in the market for a laptop.

They had about 4 different Macbook variants. Plus some older Macbook Pro models with HDD. Others with non-retina screens.

A few years ago, it was pretty simple: you bought the Macbook Pro for serious work, Macbook Air for portability.

Now it's just confusing. Like Dell or Lenovo.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by christoph on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @06:44PM (#13926978)
I worked out the iPad choices.

Options is a of mix connectivity & size:

iPad Pro (12.9") - 3 Colours x 5 Options (15)

iPad Pro (9.7") - 4 Colours x 6 Options (24)

iPad - 3 Colours x 4 Options (12)

iPad 4 Mini - 3 Colours x 2 Options (6)

That's 57 variants, clearly designed by a bean counter judging by the deliberate storage choices (i.e. no 64gb options across the whole line). 32GB seems totally pointless to me unless you are only using it for email & web browsing. Why is the mini 4 - a device that wouldn't appear to appeal to "power users" only available in 128gb? Why would anyone purchase a 12.9" iPad Pro with 32GB of storage?

The iPad line is all over the place - I had re-write the above as I got confused by what base options are available. What's even more baffling is that they all come with regular USB cables which means I can't plug any of them into my new Macbook Pro.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by jakobegger on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @03:54AM (#13929168)
The iPad mini starts at 128 so that it can have a higher starting price than the 9.7" iPad.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by threeseed on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @03:54PM (#13925605)
Revisionist history.

Apple was still selling the MacBook back then so it was never just two models. And they were still selling the non Retina MBP for a while as well.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by kirykl on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @06:08PM (#13926736)
Its about the same level of complexity now as it was say around 2010

Same choices too - Macbook/Macbook Air/Macbook Pro

Hardest part for most buyers was determining what the spec differences would mean for them and if the price difference was worth it. Same issue now

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by nkkollaw on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:44AM (#13922573)
Sure, but he cut stuff like printers, cameras, and other crazy crap they used to make.

Even when he was still alive they had different-sized iPods, iPads, and more.

Computers have always come in different sizes: 13", 15", and 17". What is the difference between a 13" and a 15"? Does it make it harder to buy? Perhaps, but you wouldn't kill the 15" just so people don't get confused.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by steeleduncan on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:59AM (#13922733)
I think the point is that the difference between 13", 15" and 17" laptops is easily grasped by even the least knowledgeable customer. It takes no time to figure which product fits your needs best.

The difference between the 9.7" iPad and the 9.7" iPad pro is not intuitive, at least to me. If it is not obvious how different products serve different needs, then you aren't actually expanding the market your product appeals to, you are just confusing customers.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by nkkollaw on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:19AM (#13922935)
One is Pro, the other one isn't.

Do you need a better screen with the stylus? If yes, iPad Pro, else iPad.

I mean, this is kind of ridiculous. All beers, wines, sodas come from bottles that are exactly the same size, how do you know if you like Budweiser or Heineken.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by fiddlerwoaroof on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:59PM (#13924032)
I actually find that it's really hard to pick a beer when I'm confronted with all the options: it would be a lot easier if a store just carried a lager and IPA and a stout (provided that the said beers were actually good)
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by matthewmcg on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @05:53PM (#13926612)
I think that's an instructive example of how different vendors cater to different markets.

A good restaurant or non beer-focused bar might have a curated selection of one or two examples of each style. Their customers just want something good to pair with their food.

But go to a good bottle shop or beer bar and you'll find sub-styles within sub-styles. Want an IPA? Will that be West Coast or New England? Double or single? Fruit adjuncts? OK, Which fruits? Beer geeks will seek out places with these choices.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by nkkollaw on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @01:48PM (#13924486)
Pubs are like that (they might carry 3-4 beers), but lots of times I drink stuff I don't like because I don't like any of the particular brands.

Choice is good, sometimes. :-)

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by glenneroo on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @10:18AM (#13931060)
Unfair comparison - beverages don't cost hundreds of dollars each, you can buy one of each and try them out to find your favorite(s).
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by tajen on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:27AM (#13923029)
I understand you. There was a time where there was one lineup for each need, and you knew what matched your situation. "Apple, give me a tablet", you pay 1 grand, you get the most awesome tablet. Now it's like in sport shops: "I need a sleeping bag to sleep outside" gets you a response like "What kind of 'sleep outside' do you mean?"...
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by jacobolus on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:04AM (#13922788)
The important difference is that “pro” supports the stylus, while “non-pro” does not.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by jfoster on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:09PM (#13923530)
Is that really the biggest difference? Sure, a stylus might be important, but they could just make all models work with the stylus.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by memco on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:46PM (#13923928)
There are several differences, which any given person might find more appealing.

Pro offers:

- Better processing power

- Better sound (more speakers)

- Better resolution cameras (about +4MP on both)

- Thinner (1.4 mm)

- Lighter (.04 lbs)

- Higher storage capacity

- Pencil & Keyboard (the ipad smart KB, bluetooth should work on both) support

And possibly the non-pro does not have P3 wide color gamut support?

If I was buying one for a family member I would buy the iPad, not the pro unless I specifically knew they needed one of these features—of which, the keyboard and pencil support seem most probable, cameras probably second.

Personally, I have the pro with the keyboard and pencil, and I love it for most day to day use. I have not yet tried to code on it, but I am dubious that I will ever be able to rely on it as my primary/only computing device. However, for meetings, classes or speaking engagements I find it highly versatile and fits a niche my laptop never would.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by somestag on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:24AM (#13922995)
Multiple models are fine, so long as you have clear signaling. As you point out, it's not terribly hard for the consumer to tell the difference between 13", 15", etc.

Usually it's not that easy, and tech releases are shockingly hard to understand, and in my opinion most of the ambiguities are pure laziness. Since the topic at hand is Apple, let's pick out some examples from their small'ish product line:

* There's no way to know, without doing extra research, that the iPhone 'S' suffix means "better." 'S' could easily mean "small." The 'C' suffix is even more ambiguous.

* The iPhone SE is probably the most ambiguously named product they've released in years. Now it's even worse, because once you know that the SE stands for "Special Edition," releases like the iPhone 7 (RED) Special Edition make it even harder to understand where the SE fits in.

* Apple still sells MacBook Airs, except they made the MacBook do what the Air used to do and they've all but discontinued Airs.

* They're advertising the iPad 9.7", which is just the newest version of the iPad, except they already have an iPad Pro 9.7", so if you search for 9.7" on Google or look around Apple's store you mostly see mostly results for the Pro 9.7". In fact on the buy iPad 9.7" page doesn't even say 9.7" anywhere except when referencing the Pro.

Of course Apple isn't the only tech company that does this; they just used to be one of the better ones, and now they're slowly giving up that advantage. The more technical a company thinks its userbase is, the lazier it gets with naming. Computer components, for example, have names that are so useless you basically have to infer their positioning by their MSRP. (Spec sheets are only marginally helpful; your only real option is to search for benchmarks.) This is not a good thing; everyone benefits from clearer naming conventions. Many companies just don't think it's important, for some reason.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by tptacek on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:54AM (#13923333)
My theory is that this is because they didn't want to release the SE, and that they are only lately coming to grips with the fact that consumer preference is inexorably leading them to a product line charted on two axes, not just one --- price sensitivity and size sensitivity.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by slantyyz on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:34AM (#13923107)
>> Sure, but he cut stuff like printers, cameras, and other crazy crap they used to make.

Dunno if there are other fogeys like me who remember the days going back to the Imagewriters, Stylewriters and Laserwriters -- those were fantastic printers in the pre-USB era where third party printer pickings were quite slim for Apple users.

In the late 80s, you could even get a third party scanner in the shape ink cartridge called a Thunderscan for the Imagewriter.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by GuiA on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:42AM (#13923196)
> In the late 80s, you could even get a third party scanner in the shape ink cartridge called a Thunderscan for the Imagewriter.

That was indeed very cool. The much lower complexity of the technology involved is what made these kind of feats possible tho- there's no way you could pull off something like that in this age of hyper miniaturized, specialized hardware components- that's why something like Project Ara was doomed from the start.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by bbarn on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @06:37PM (#13926939)
There's a picture of me as a teen on my outbound "laptop" struggling to get one hooked up somewhere. That roller-bar mouse thing though, that's what stands out :)
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by aroman on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:49AM (#13923286)
You've got it backwards. This update streamlines the product line, along the lines of what Steve Jobs did.

There are now 3 iPads: the iPad, the iPad Pro, and the iPad Mini. The differences are as clear as they ever have been for Mac lines.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by simonh on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:37PM (#13923831)
Except there are two iPad Pro sizes and one of them is the same size as the new basic iPad 9.7'. And the iPad Mini is now more expensive than a basic iPad 9.7' but are slower, but only come in a large storage option.

I love Apple. Read my other posts defending the iPad as a productivity device on this discussion, and defending the cleanness if the iPhone lineup, but the current iPad lineup is all over the place.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by kenips on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @05:35PM (#13926487)
I think you're missing the rumours on the new 10.5" iPad Pro. Hold your judgement before that. What if the future product lines are only iPad and iPad Pro? With iPad at 7.9" and 9.7", iPad Pro at 10.5" and 12"? Many have said that the 10.5" iPad Pro would be the 12"'s resolution at 326 ppi, and I think thats reasonable.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by simonh on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @03:09AM (#13929009)
If that were coming out any time soon, I'd have expected it to be launched alongside the other changes to the lineup. But adding my anityercscreen size option by itself does nothing to reduce the confusion in the current lineup.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by kevindqc on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:36PM (#13923814)
What are you talking about? There is now 4

http://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by karlshea on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:48PM (#13923945)
The Pro is one line, there are just two screen sizes. The 9.7" Pro has the same processor as the larger pro and has compatibility with the pencil. The new 9.7" non-pro has the lower end chip and no pencil.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by chaostheory on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @02:51PM (#13925025)
Yes it's one line, but it has two versions with big differences. I could be wrong but it's not just the screen size, it's also the screen resolution and camera resolution as well. They might as well be two different products. Everyone thought that the smaller iPad Pro was the successor to the iPad.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by r00fus on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @06:02PM (#13926682)
The 12.9" apparently doesn't have the same TruTone screen (at least according to Apple's own comparison chart) as the 9.7".

This is not simply a size difference.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by gpawl on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @03:07PM (#13925200)
It's more a band than a line if there are two available at once
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by frogpelt on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:58AM (#13922730)
Apple is not the same company and should not be expected to act like the company they were when Steve Jobs returned.

Their market cap is over $700 Billion.

They were never going to continue their growth by offering one phone, one tablet, and one laptop, regardless of what the purists think.

Remember when Google was nothing but search?

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by camus2 on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:18PM (#13923633)
> Remember when Google was nothing but search?

Google has nothing to do with Apple. Why even talk about Google as a relevant example of anything regarding consumer hardware production? they aren't.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by ajeet_dhaliwal on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @09:50AM (#13922142)
It has got a little confusing over the years but today doesn't add any further complexity and makes things a bit better, it just replaces the iPad Air which I think was badly named to begin with and should have just been called iPad like it was before. May be because the Macbook Air looks to be going away they are getting rid of the Air name, although they just released 'AirPods'.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by mikeash on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @09:59AM (#13922213)
They also dropped the iPad mini 2, which is a nice step towards simplifying the lineup a bit. It's still overly complicated, but it's been ridiculous for years now, and this is moving in the right direction.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by emdowling on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @09:59AM (#13922214)
AirPlay, AirPrint are still in use. The Air name for Macbook and iPad lines was all about thinness. When introduced, these products had thicker predecessors. It's irrelevant now for iPad, as everything is pretty much the same thickness across all models. For Macbook Air, it is no longer the thinnest product in the line-up. However, Apple can't quite get rid of it just yet - not until they offer a sub $999 Macbook.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by rrdharan on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:57AM (#13922718)
In those cases the Air refers to wirelessness rather than weight.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by rconti on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @01:10PM (#13924133)
I am utterly confused. There was the iPad, then the Mini, then the Air, then the Pro.. and now I look at this, and 9.7" sounds fairly large ("normal" iPad size?) but the price is surprisingly cheap? No idea. closes window

I've got about 6 tablets and never use any of them anyway. I hate the user experience. I see no case where I'd rather have a tablet than my phone or my 6 year old Macbook Air.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by therealdrag0 on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @01:24PM (#13924275)
Why do you have 6 of them?
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by rconti on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:08PM (#13928210)
Always seems like a good idea? I've got an iPad2 that I really wanted to love, and used until it became so slow it was useless (a couple of years ago). It still sits on my kitchen counter as a plugged-in weather station, though the app crashes frequently.

I've got an HP Touchpad I bought during the fire sale for $50 or whatever the going rate was. I think its got Android on it. It was less of a fun project than I expected. Mostly I realized I don't like Android.

I've got a 7" Fire I bought at christmas for $30 but never use.

My wife's got a 7" Nexus she got as a gift but rarely used.

She's also got a Kindle she used to use occasionally.

Plus an iPad Air she uses quite a bit.

I'm pretty sure there's another tablet or two in there somewhere but nothing comes to mind.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by glenneroo on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @10:26AM (#13931129)
After the 2nd or 3rd tablet one would think "seems like a good idea" would have become "seems like a bad idea". You also didn't even mention why you stopped using the 3 other tablets you bought after having bad experiences with your iPad2 and HP Touchpad.

Your iPad2 example sounds like a software problem? And regarding slowness, have you tried a factory reset? I have an old iPod Class gen5(?) from 2004ish which became very usable after a system update (6 months ago) and a factory reset. I use it now mostly for streaming radio from various websites, all of which load fast enough.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by pwthornton on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @01:11PM (#13924143)
Surfing the Internet, reading ebooks and watching videos are all things an iPad would do much better, particularly anything that would benefit from a hiDPI screen.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by rconti on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:06PM (#13928201)
I do miss the high DPI screen when using my old Air, that's a good point. Though I usually don't feel my internet surfing is enhanced by holding a heavy tablet.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by glenneroo on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @10:27AM (#13931148)
Have you considered the plethora of cases and stands available for relatively low prices? For someone with 6+ tablets, it just sounds like you buy them because they were cheap... and so that you have something to complain about.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by sandymcmurray on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:30PM (#13923768)
http://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/ to compare current models. iPad Pro 9.7 has better processor, better screen, better camera, is slightly thinner and lighter and works with Apple Pencil and Keyboard accessories.

There are now just four options: big Pro, little Pro, iPad, and mini.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by spike021 on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:33PM (#13923795)
Four options, plus all the sub-options: with cellular data or without, 3 or so different amounts of space..

With the larger iPads do some people get smaller space, even though larger display probably means more resources/larger resolution media will need to be stored on the device.

Spitballing but it's quite a few options.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by mcphage on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @03:52PM (#13925580)
They're at least independent questions. First you decide which you want, then you decide how much space, and then you decide if you want cellular.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by drzaiusapelord on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:37AM (#13922524)
Jobs also wanted one phone at one screen size based on some cargo-cult science about average thumb length. Apple was watching its lunch being eaten by people who would have had probably bought an iPhone but wanted the big screens Android has to offer. Thus the multiple iPhone models. He was also against the mini iPad size, which is the only iPad I'm willing to buy.

I think the limited product line is an artifact of the time and place Jobs and Apple were in the early 2000s. They had endless Mac models and a underwhelming value proposition. Cutting that down to a single colorful little Mac and a single pro product and their laptop equivalents made sense. Introducing the mobile revolution one simple product at a time also made sense.

Now they need to continue to make sales, so adding more products to address more niche markets is the only way forward. They've probably exhausted their "one size fits all" market at this point. Apple can't accept no or negative growth, so more niche products it is.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by ams6110 on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @03:56PM (#13925625)
My first question was "is that bigger or smaller than a normal iPad" (I don't own one).

Spent a few minutes looking at the site to try to find out, then lost interest.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by PacketPaul on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @08:32AM (#13930352)
I own 3 and still don't know the answer. I've been wonder the same. Steve Jobs swore the iPad was the perfect size and any other size was a failure.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by alaskamiller on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @07:22PM (#13927191)
The story goes, according to my boss with her signed letter of appreciation for her 20 year service to the company, that when Steve came back to Apple the first thing he did was cut the research team.

The rationale being that Apple is not in a position to do the R in R&D and instead will focus just on the D to survive.

In turn he starts slashing the D that won't yield results, while focusing on the ones that will.

And being that he was now single handled in charge the most he can focus on is being in the center of four quadrants, hence putting everything on the table into just four buckets:

1. Consumer 2. Professionals 3. Hardware 4. Software

1 being the thing that Steve gets. 2 being the thing that Steve wants. 3 being what Apple does best and 4 being what adds value.

Now everything Apple does runs off this premise.

The premise worked well enough to pump out the iBook, iMac, iPhone, to then the MacBook and MacBook Pro, to the Mac Pro, Mac mini.

Then he died.

In his place he passed the legacy to an operator. Because the operator's goal is two folds: keep improving things and keep making things efficient.

Tim Cook delivered on the latter and he's working on the former.

The clones being the ones that can take the baton and run with it.

It'll be here soon enough. The next generation is starting to take shape. And there will be leaders that take the stage to lead each quadrant.

PS: Square aped this strategy, that's why Jack Corsey was a favorite of Steve's. Square sells you the hardware at cost and gives the software away free, they scale by latching on to the hack of reselling you points on a merchant account.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by stanmancan on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:14PM (#13923586)
This is what happens when they don't have a "product" guy running the company anymore. Steve Jobs was brilliant at coming up with new products. Every since he left all we have gotten is the Apple Watch, which one can argue he probably had a hand in. Their only option now is to start creating variations of existing product lines to keep them "fresh".
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by budde on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @03:03PM (#13925171)
> Steve Jobs was brilliant at coming up with new products

By my count, Jobs shepherded the following hit products (I'm giving the Apple ][ to Woz):

- Macintosh (1984)

- iPod (2001)

- iPhone (2007)

- iPad (2010)

I think you're exaggerating how often Apple rolled out new product lines under Jobs. You could even argue that the iPod and iPhone overshadow the other two substantially in terms of cultural impact.

> Their only option now is to start creating variations of existing product lines to keep them "fresh".

Isn't this kind of what you'd expect out of a business? Refreshing and supporting their existing product lines while occasionally trying to establish new ones? The iPhone is looking more and more like a once-in-a-lifetime home run product (Ben Thompson has done a lot of good writing on this), the likes of which Apple (or anybody else, for that matter) may never be able to top. This isn't to say that Apple doesn't miss having a visionary like Jobs at the helm or that their product lineup doesn't have glaring flaws. I just think the massive success of the iPhone set expectations way too high.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by Chromus on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:43PM (#13928313)
Maybe I'm misinformed, but those seem like the "definitive" Apple products to me. They're basically the foundation of their current business, and have only been diluted since his departure.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by PacketPaul on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @08:35AM (#13930359)
Why would Jobs not get credit for the Apple 2? It's not like he engineered any of the other items on your list. It was his marketing that made the Apple 2.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by stanmancan on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @07:03PM (#13927081)
When Jobs came back to Apple he supposedly canned hundreds of different products and got them to focus again. While he was around, that's how things remained; each product had their own place. As time goes on since his departure, the clutter is starting to come back and the lines are starting to blur. Whats the difference between the new Macbook and the Macbook Air? The iPad 9.6 vs the iPad Pro 9.6? Apple Watch Gen 1 vs Gen 2 vs Series 1 vs Series 2?
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by MR4D on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:22PM (#13923689)
Agreed. I thought the best way would be differentiate on features.

Pro should be: - wifi+LTE - more storage - pen and/or cover keyboard included - faster CPU - multiscreen capability (connect to mouse and monitor with "desktop" interface) for truly replacing my desktop

Regular iPad should be wifi only, and not come with a pen.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by r00fus on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:59PM (#13924039)
It's almost that way - just that you can get the regular iPad with LTE, too.

Honestly, I wish they'd instead make all the iPads "pencil" compatible.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by PacketPaul on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @08:37AM (#13930367)
Then they would not have a reason to charge more. They need low cost and a premium option.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by scarface74 on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:17PM (#13923613)
There is a big difference. They were a $4 billion dollar company without the resources they have now and they were selling multiple computers with the same specs with different model numbers depending on the retailer.

He also said that a mistake they made with Macs was having a price umbrella that let others come in cheaper.

iPad is cheaper and doesn't support the pencil - good enough for most people - and the iPad Pro is more expensive and supports the stylus and has a faster processor.

Most people understand more expensive = better.

On a side note. I hate Apple stopped selling the 3rd Gen AppleTV for $59. It was "good enough" for people who mostly wanted AirPlay functionality and to stream videos using the included app. Now they have nothing that competes in the ChromeCast/Roku stick price range.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by njharman on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @01:04PM (#13924083)
> it makes it harder to buy.

I think you mean, "It makes it harder to decide to buy." A hugely important distinction and the point of having few models. (limiting decision points/places to 2nd think do I really need a new ipad)

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by jpalomaki on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @09:09AM (#13930572)
Steve's opinionated model was very elegant, but with that approach Apple was certainly not meeting everybody's demands.

Back then it was ok to leave bunch of customers to others, as Apple still managed to find quite nice growth by for example entering to new device categories. For couple of years this has not been the case. Apple has been forced to find the growth by selling more of same to the customer base that is not growing so rapidly.

I think the large number of models is simply a result of their attempt to maximize the money pouring with the current set of inventions they have at hand.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by stronglikedan on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:01AM (#13922762)
My favorite new tactic of theirs is in their new commercials, where an actor will ask if the "iPad" can do something, and the announcer will confirm that it can, on the "iPad Pro". The one that jumps to mind is the MS Office one, but I recall at least one other feature that they advertised using the same tactic.

It's pretty confusing if you don't catch the causally mentioned "Pro" bit at the very end, after they've gone through a segment on the "feature" that the "iPad" can do. I just hope it'll net them a lot of returned iPads from rightfully frustrated customers.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by aeontech on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:57AM (#13923375)
I think that's just because those are commercials promoting the Pro specifically, not that they are saying that those things cannot be done on non-pro models. At least, I'm not aware of any restrictions on what models of iPad's can run Office, for example, and if there were, they'd be ones imposted by app's authors, Microsoft in this case.

Unless you're talking about apps specifically requiring Pencil?

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by stronglikedan on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @05:34PM (#13926476)
Maybe it's just the bait-and-switch tone of the commercials that throws me off. It does seem like Office would run on any iPad [0], and they could just be referring to the pencil. However, even the description there [0] is kind of weirdly worded to me. I just don't know enough about Apple devices I guess.

> * Word is ready for iPad Pro and looks amazing on the 12.9-inch screen. Read Word documents on iPad Pro for free. To create and edit docs, you need a qualifying Office 365 subscription. Try it for free for 30 days. * The real Microsoft Word app designed for iPad, iPhone and iPod touch.

[0] https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/microsoft-word/id586447913?m...

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by methehack on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:54PM (#13923981)
Been wondering the same thing. It's one of the my favorite stories from the Walter Isacson bio. After listening to all the product mgrs for like 3 days in all day meetings describe their 20+ hardware products, he draws a 2x2. Labels one axis "consumer/professional" the other "laptop/desktop" and says "you get four products". Clarity in product offerings means you know who you are; the inverse is also true.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by dijit27 on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @03:02PM (#13925154)
I fondly remember seeing that product grid on Apple's website. And even though it isn't displayed as a grid I think the current iPad lineup fits the 2 axis concept pretty well. They still have the consumer/professional or consumption/creation axis. The Pro being the professional/creation end. And instead of laptop/desktop they have the size or portability axis. In the large professional there is the 12.9-inch iPad Pro, in the small professional there is the 9.7-inch iPad Pro. For the large consumer there is the iPad and finally the for the small consumer is the iPad mini.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by tptacek on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:41AM (#13923193)
iPad Pro: Take the 9.7" iPad and add:

* Apple Pencil

* Faster CPU, more memory, more display

* UHD color gamut display (and automatic white balance adjustment)

* Better cameras

I think there are other differences, but those are the big ticket ones.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by mturmon on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:19PM (#13923646)
I'd argue that the #1 or #2 key addition that "Pro" gets you (the Pencil being the other #1 or #2) is the "Smart Connector" for the integrated keyboard (http://www.apple.com/smart-keyboard/).

The ability to add the keyboard and the pencil illustrates the distinction Apple is trying to make between the Pro and the vanilla 9.7 -- creation vs. consumption.

After all these years, they are still persistently trying to position the iPad as a creation tool. Maybe it will work.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by chipotle_coyote on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @02:06PM (#13924636)
The list of things I absolutely can't do on an iPad is fairly small these days. (This is distinct from things that I would prefer to do on a Mac/PC, but there are things that I would prefer to do on the iPad, too.) I think Apple may need to do a better job of showing, well, more utilitarian tasks that can be done pretty easily on the iPad.

Having said that, I do wonder if one of the unspoken stumbling blocks is that even if an iPad is a great portable computer in many respects, it's only a portable computer. A lot of people "dock" their laptops to get work done. (Or to write comments on Hacker News when they should be getting work done.) I love traveling with my 9.7" iPad Pro and keyboard, but even if future releases of iOS address all the nitpicks I have with it, there are times I want to be sitting at a desk in front of a big monitor. I don't see that coming to iOS any time soon.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by whazor on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @05:52PM (#13926609)
Apple is now a lifestyle company. They have different iPads in different sizes in different colors. The same for iPhones, MacBooks, and watches.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by internet2000 on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:34AM (#13923103)
Never thought I'd see the day where the argument against Apple is that they have too much choice.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by fiddlerwoaroof on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @01:04PM (#13924089)
That might be because satisfied people tend to be quieter about a product than dissatisfied ones.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by waderyan on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:01AM (#13922234)
I don't disagree with the lesson, but does it always apply? When Jobs came back Apple was in a different place than it is today.

To your second point, I completely agree. Regardless of the need to focus, causing confusion to consumers doesn't seem the right thing to do.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by dragonwriter on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:37AM (#13922515)
> I don't disagree with the lesson, but does it always apply? When Jobs came back Apple was in a different place than it is today.

Maybe, but on the other hand there is a lot of similarity between Apple v. Microsoft/PC-cloned on desktop and Apple v. Google/Android-devices on mobile.

And one similarity would seem to be that Apple is in no position to win on breadth and choice, but they may be in a position to win (at least, create a solid, profitable I market where they have little effective competition) by identifying key niches, and narrowly tailoring offerings to them.

In fact, I'd argue that their path in tablets and smartphones has been pretty similar as in PCs; they developed the market ahead of everyone else with fisrly narrow offerings, a competing platform emerged where the core software was separate from hardware manufacturers offering more choice, and drew them into trying to compete on the kind of choice offered by the competition.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by joeblau on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:30AM (#13923067)
The main thing that comes to mind for me is the Apple Pencil.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by cgh on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @01:36PM (#13924389)
Yes, exactly. The Apple Pencil is incredible, by the way. The experience is comparable in my mind to using the original iPhone for the first time. Apple should market the hell out of the 12.9" iPad Pro to artists.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by siidooloo on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @02:18PM (#13924730)
Yes, Wacom must have realized this as the newest Cintiqs finally solved the biggest problem they always had: paralax.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by digi_owl on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @02:58PM (#13925120)
What he did was evict anything that happened while he was not present and thus didn't have his "touch"...
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by cbsmith on Wednesday March 22, 2017 @01:04PM (#13932664)
Yeah, when Jobs was around, they only had the iPod, the iPod mini, the iPod nano, the iPod video...
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by DoodleBuggy on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:50PM (#13923956)
The "iPad Pro" is the same iPad as it always was, the "Pro" is marketing.

A member of my family was hustled into buying an iPad "Pro" from a sales rep who convinced them it can do everything and more, yet they can't perform simple file management and related email tasks on it, so they still use a Windows PC that cost 1/2 the price of the $800 iPad Pro.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by marvindanig on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:01AM (#13922236)
Also there was reason why Steve Jobs was against all tablet sizes except one. At the time Apple was going after revolutionizing the education market and the 9.7" iPad1/2 fit the bill for that purpose exactly. Then came the iPad mini whose sole purpose was to increase business bottom-line… and then a few more models based on other focuses or potential uses. Meh.

Moral of story: Do not destroy the initial momentum and the sense of denting the world. "To be a part of revolutionary change" is an important feeling to keep in tech industry.

--- Edits:

Wish I could impress upon them about the urgency to kill all models except the iPad Air (9"). Anything else will only kill/subdue the category and lead the focus away from the initial promise that the tablets held -- i.e. disrupt education.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by dmix on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:06AM (#13922275)
Current iPad sizes:

- iPad Pro 12.9"

- iPad Pro 9.7"

- iPad 9.7"

- iPad Mini 4 8" (edit: thanks pdpi/trymas)

It really should just be iPad (9.7) or iPad Pro (12.9) should it not? Now the customer has to decide between two 9.7 models with not so obvious differences between the two? And now there are two (edit: three) different iPad pages on the sales website you have to go through.

This changes the immediate conversation visiting the site for the first time between why I should get the iPad... to what's the difference and available options AND why should I get an iPad?

The Macbook vs Macbook Pro distinction was more obvious because it was basically casual/school vs work. But I don't really see tablets having that work vs casual dichotomy. It's more high-end vs affordable. Which from a mental categorization perspective doesn't fit neatly into the current product line.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by tptacek on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:25AM (#13923008)
No? I have a 9.7 Pro. I have the Pro because it's one of the best tablet solutions on the market. I actively do not want a 12.9" tablet, and a non-Pro doesn't support the Apple Pencil.

I think what we're seeing here is not so complicated: it's that customers have strong size preferences, and that they're often orthogonal to their price sensitivities.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by pdpi on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:08AM (#13922293)
Plus the iPad Mini 7.9".

As a 9.7 Pro owner, the differences between the 9.7 Pro and the regular iPad are quite important. I just wish they made the comparison easier, though.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by trymas on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:15AM (#13922342)
http://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/

I think that's pretty good comparison.

Reminds me of iPhone SE - make a product from older tech, where all manufacturing is cheap and smooth as ever and sell it as cheapest option (I imagine with still veeery big markup).

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by unprepare on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:49AM (#13922635)
17 different prices and no clear indication of what use case each is for.

the 12.9 inch is the most expensive, but doesnt seem to have the best specs?

Do i need an A9x or will an A9 suffice?

Why does the 9.7 inch pro come in rose gold but not the 12 inch?

the two 9.7 inch tablets are different sizes, how will i know which case to buy or if this ipad will fit into my current case?

do i need a fully laminated display and antireflective coating? because the 9.7 inch ipad does not have these things but all other models do.

Which one will work with my existing data plan? I see that the 9.7 inch pro comes with an embedded sim, does that mean i cant replace it with my own sim? They also all seem to support different LTE bands, am i expected to know which LTE bands my provider uses before i purchase an ipad?

Just my thoughts after looking at this page for two minutes.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by jacobolus on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:57AM (#13922712)
The main difference between the 10" models is that one works with the stylus, and the other doesn’t.

All the tech that goes into making the display stylus-compatible is quite complicated, so it makes some sense that there’s a price difference / that they leave those out for the budget model.

The 13" model is basically the same as the 10" “pro” model, except it came out a few months earlier, before some of the new features (a display with more colorful primaries, and better cameras). At the point that new “pro” models come out (later this year sometime), the next version of the 13" iPad will pick up those features.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by pdpi on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:05AM (#13922802)
It is, yes — good point.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by ethbro on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:21AM (#13922956)
For a luxury good, isn't it in their best interest to make the differences as opaque as possible?

The lower tier, same-sized items are basically "you couldn't afford an X" models that allow them to monetize a different market.

But the idea is to keep the mystique of the higher tier items as a status symbol. And exposing the specs and highlighting precise differences only leads to people deciding that maybe that feature isn't important to them...

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by pdpi on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:24PM (#13923716)
The differences between the Pro and non-Pro 9.7" iPads are _way_ too inconspicuous for that argument to hold water.

In fact, the only product apple sells that seems to follow that line of reasoning is the Apple Watch.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by hvidgaard on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:23AM (#13922403)
If they want to streamline their lineup, go with

- iPad/iPhone Mini

- iPad/iPhone

- iPad/iPhone Plus

Drop everything else and keep it simple.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by trymas on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:10AM (#13922302)
http://www.apple.com/ipad-mini-4/

ipad mini still exists

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by S_A_P on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:11AM (#13922306)
This. So Much. There needs to be a rationalization initiative at Apple to streamline things. If you want to command high end profits, you cant release commodity grade products. Is there even anything new here with this ipad?
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by michaelbrooks on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:46AM (#13922605)
What I find kind of funny is Windows has gone through this exact issue with their Windows Phone platform.

The Lumia lineup started out okay with a flagship device (920) and mid to high range device (820) a mid-range device (620) and a low end device (520) and a nice photographer device (1020). Things started getting really blurry with things like 925, 930, 635, 730 (can't remember them all) and suddenly a lower number device actually had better spec or almost similar to a higher number device, or the specs were so close together that it looked really confusing. Not to mention people begging for certain models to be upgraded and it never happening meant angry customers.

To me, it looks like Apple is slowly making the same mistake albeit a lot slower. You would have thought they were paying attention and wouldn't go down this route.

Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by flamedoge on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @06:36PM (#13926924)
that's just marketing nightmare.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by woah on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @10:43AM (#13922572)
Don't iPads suck for education or anything other than consuming media?
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by criddell on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @12:21PM (#13923680)
As stupid as it looks, using the big iPads for photography makes sense to a lot of people. It's a decent camera and having what is essentially a giant view finder is a nice way to work, especially for shooting video.
Re:iPad 9.7‑inch by mbel on Tuesday March 21, 2017 @11:00AM (#13922744)
Large part of education is consuming media (text books). Although I agree, I've never seen any appeal in iPads in schools.