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Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by atourgates on Thursday September 28, 2023 @11:55AM (#37691434)
I'm an Alaska (relatively) frequent flyer. That airline offers a free "messaging" plan, that lets you send and receive messages on apps like iMessage, Facebook Messenger and Whatsapp. Though, it somehow prevents images/attachments from coming through on those platforms.

I've always wondered how this is implemented technically, and if it might be possible to setup some kind of protocol/wrapper to send data that looks like it's being sent over those protocols, but offers access to other parts of the internet.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by dag11 on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:05PM (#37691621)
Hi fellow Alaska frequent flier.

So about that! There's this iOS app called Flightly that does a brilliant little hack where the app updates itself in (almost) real time on the "free messaging" plan. The way it works (according to a friend) is that their servers send your phone a push notification every couple of minutes from take-off until landing, containing some serialized info such as lat,long,alt,eta,etc. And then the app immediately swallows the notification and deserializes its content without you ever seeing it. The notification works because in order for Alaska to give you notifications at all for your messaging apps, it needs to give you access to _all_ push notifications as they all get sent over an encrypted connected through Apple's server and it can't pick and choose which apps' notifications it lets through.

I've often wondered if it'd be possible to pipe any sort of internet over notifications but I'm not sure if e.g. inline responses are viable, and also that'd probably be heavy enough usage of push notifications I'm sure it's violate someone's TOS.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by dgellow on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:34PM (#37692051)
Really hoping someone implements this, it’s the funniest project idea I’ve seen in a while :)
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by ardit33 on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:36PM (#37692091)
It is just 8 bucks for the full service... just buy the internet bro. It is actually pretty good.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by s3p on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:42PM (#37692173)
You're not understanding the point of the comment. The Flighty team did some amazing engineering work for anyone who doesn't pay.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by catiopatio on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:57PM (#37692423)
> amazing engineering work

This strikes me as HN’s own unique style of toxic positivity.

They’re using push notifications. That’s not amazing engineering work. It’s literally a built-in, supported, documented feature:

“Pushing background updates to your App — Deliver notifications that wake your app and update it in the background.”

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/usernotifications/...

The payload supports custom keys that may contain arbitrary application data.

It’s also the trivial, obvious approach to anyone who asks the question “how can I push data to the application when it’s not running.”

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by mynameisvlad on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:11PM (#37692619)
They're using push notifications in a novel way to provide the app the necessary information to update itself without needing to be connected to the full internet. That's quite a bit beyond "They're using push notifications" and no other app does that AFAIK. Almost all will use the push notification as a notification and trigger an update on app open which would fail.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by catiopatio on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:17PM (#37692705)
Tons of apps do that. It’s a built-in, supported use-case!

It’s also the trivial, obvious approach to anyone who asks the question “how can I push data to the application when it’s not running.”

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by mynameisvlad on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:38PM (#37692967)
Give me one example, then. Of an app which uses a notification as an actual app data source and not just as a notification which opens the app. And which also updates the primary app view to reflect this new information.

No other app has updated its app state based on the content of notifications. Slack/Discord/Teams et al (the ones that aren't allowed on free messaging plans) will show you previously cached messages and then an infinite spinner when you open it. Fastmail/Gmail/Outlook et al will show you existing emails but not load the new ones.

Could other apps do this? Surely. Do they? No.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by catiopatio on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:42PM (#37693025)
Slack/Discord/Teams? Those are desktop web applications hosted via Electron. Failing to leverage basic platform functionality is practically their telos.

All it requires is reading the two pages of documentation for this supported feature:

“Pushing background updates to your App — Deliver notifications that wake your app and update it in the background.”

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/usernotifications/...

> No one is asking for a survey of apps that do this. You’re making the claim that it’s far from rare, so you have enough knowledge to make this claim. Share with us the smallest piece of your knowledge by naming one single other app that does this. It’s the least you can do since you’re making the claim. Please, I’m very curious!

I can’t share that information.

It’s a trivial, documented, supported, long-standing API for a common use-case.

It is widely used, as documented, for its intended purpose.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by constantly on Thursday September 28, 2023 @02:08PM (#37693354)
No one is asking for a survey of apps that do this. You’re making the claim that it’s far from rare, so you have enough knowledge to make this claim. Share with us the smallest piece of your knowledge by naming one single other app that does this. It’s the least you can do since you’re making the claim. Please, I’m very curious!
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by s3p on Thursday September 28, 2023 @02:58PM (#37694031)
I'm curious as well.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by catiopatio on Thursday September 28, 2023 @03:58PM (#37694949)
Why?

Do you genuinely believe it’s uncommon for applications to leverage this useful, trivial, long-standing platform API for its intended and explicitly documented purpose?

I can’t imagine why you’d believe that, but another commenter already provided the requested single example up-thread.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by mynameisvlad on Thursday September 28, 2023 @04:00PM (#37694984)
Uh, all those apps have mobile counterparts.

> I cannot share information about specific applications.

So you don't have an example of an app using such a basic and widespread feature? Ok.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by catiopatio on Thursday September 28, 2023 @04:16PM (#37695209)
A mobile webapp is still a webapp, and “I cannot share” does not mean “I do not have”.

You’re the one with an extraordinary claim here — that applications aren’t using such a basic, documented, widespread feature.

It’s patently silly and I have no idea why you’re so self-assured in your ignorance.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by nickf on Thursday September 28, 2023 @05:37PM (#37696235)
I really think you’ve missed the point. Opening any of those apps after receiving the notification requires a network connection to then update. It’s not done via the push notification itself. I have never seen that happen in my experience. Flighty does, hence why it’s deemed clever.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by catiopatio on Thursday September 28, 2023 @05:49PM (#37696354)
I have not missed the point.

Background notifications can and do carry arbitrary application data, and are used to update the application state in the background.

This is their intended purpose, it’s what they’re documented to do, it’s how Apple intends them to be used, and it’s common application behavior.

This is literally a plainly documented feature of the platform. It’s not clever or unique or unusual — it’s a simple feature that Apple specifically documents.

I cannot even begin to fathom why people are confused about this, and it’s truly mind-boggling that this has required a thread at all.

Slack/Discord/Teams are non-native applications that do not leverage the platform’s support for updating application state via notifications. That does not mean the use of background notifications is unusual or rare. It is not.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by TehShrike on Thursday September 28, 2023 @02:29PM (#37693662)
Podcast players like Overcast use push notifications to learn about new episodes of podcasts that should be downloaded in the background. Presumably text-based RSS readers do the same.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by Gormo on Thursday September 28, 2023 @07:00PM (#37697073)
Where are the push notifications originating from? Does Overcast have a cloud service that polls the RSS feeds and then sends the notification? I use AntennaPod on Android, and it definitely doesn't do anything like that -- the feed list is stored locally, and the feeds are polled locally.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by TehShrike on Wednesday October 04, 2023 @11:38AM (#37766736)
Yeah, Overcast has a service written in Go that polls RSS feeds and then use iOS push notifications to send new episodes to clients.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by interestica on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:46PM (#37693068)
What other apps do this?
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by tomrod on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:08PM (#37692582)
I build AI/ML systems. I think delivering digital content through alternative pipes is amazing work. It has applicability far beyond simple aerospace wifi paywalls.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by catiopatio on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:11PM (#37692609)
I build operating systems, compilers, and formally verified systems. What’s the relevance?

Push notifications aren’t some odd “alternative pipe” and conveying data via push notifications is a known and supported use-case.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by teaearlgraycold on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:04PM (#37692526)
Why is that toxic?
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by catiopatio on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:17PM (#37692697)
A cognitive filter that misrepresents reality is toxic.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by teaearlgraycold on Thursday September 28, 2023 @07:25PM (#37697291)
That’s how all thought works.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by turquoisevar on Thursday September 28, 2023 @11:35PM (#37699007)
I don’t know what you have against Flighty but you through considerable lengths in the thread below to spend time on letting everyone know how unimpressed you are about their efforts.

Your lack of amazement is duly noted, I suggest you don’t waste any more time on it.

That said, I, like others, are indeed impressed for a couple of reasons.

For starters because of the simple fact that they’ve found a novel way to use background notifications to provide users without unrestricted internet access with flight updates.

Contrary to what you imply, and subsequently fail to substantiate, there aren’t many, if any, other apps that use background notifications in such a novel way, certainly not in a way to circumvent restrictions and limitations on data connections.

Moreover, I have never seen background notifications being used to push concrete data to apps. This is because there are severe payload size constraints on notifications, including background notifications.

Typically when background notifications have been used, it simply contains an instruction to download data from a remote server, something that wouldn’t work on a limited connection.

Instead, Flighty uses the minimal payload size to push the actual concrete data used by the app.

Additionally there are some limitations in how often a background notification gets delivered to the tune of a few times per hour, worse yet, delivery of these notification is inconsistent because it’s beyond the app’s control of they get delivered at all.

To account for this, Flighty will use the background notifications to update the data where it can and make estimations in times it cannot not until the next time it can receive an update.

I’d go as far as call that amazing engineering.

You might not and I don’t know your qualms with Flighty, but you’re doing a poor job of convincing people to see it your way.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by catiopatio on Friday September 29, 2023 @02:27AM (#37699978)
You’re right, I see that as embarrassingly trivial engineering — calling out using a supported API as “amazing engineering” says something about the limited engineering background of the readership on this particular thread.

I have nothing against Flighty, but background notifications are trivial and all apps can and should be using them to solve this type of problem — it’s detrimental to have folks mistakenly operating under the belief that this is complex or unusual.

Sure, the payload size is limited, but it’s not impossibly small, and custom keys with arbitrary payload are explicitly and obviously documented as supported.

Do you work on Flighty? I truly cannot understand where on earth this level of effusiveness for using a simple API — as documented and designed — is coming from. It’s inane.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by el_benhameen on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:42PM (#37692175)
Sure. But you’re on a site called “Hacker News”. I’m not sure that there’s a more perfect topic of discussion for a site with that name.
[dead]
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by el_benhameen on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:57PM (#37692419)
I think the spirit of the comment was “here’s an interesting technical question” versus “how can I get eight bucks of free shit”.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by arcanemachiner on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:03PM (#37692516)
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by acka on Thursday September 28, 2023 @03:48PM (#37694813)
"Oh no, not again..." quoted from (not stolen, not infringing any copyright because of fair use) from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams.

This nonsense has to stop. Copying a movie, or using the internet on someone else's plan is not piracy is not theft.

Quoting from memory from my old Webster's dictionary which I have owned since I was a student a long time ago:

Theft: The act of taking property and removing it so that the rightful owner is no longer in possession of it.

Piracy: the practice of attacking and robbing ships at sea.

Equating copyright infringement or violation of terms of service with theft or piracy is completely unwarranted messing with definitions of terms that have served their purpose for centuries.

Worse yet, the abuse of these terms in recent times misdirects people's attention away from the underlying flaws: artificial scarcity and the inability to enforce restrictions on use; you can not steal data (unless you steal the physical medium the data is stored on) nor can you pirate a service.

Making unauthorized copies or violating the terms of use of a service may be deemed objectionable but these actions are most certainly neither theft nor piracy.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by jstarfish on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:58PM (#37692445)
Hahaha. Reminds me of a savings "hack" my brother once shared at the dinner table with a straight face:

Just take any adhesive label off of the "clearance" meat at the supermarket, and apply it to the cut you wanted to buy. Instant savings!

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by lapetitejort on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:16PM (#37692680)
"Wait, why did my Amazon account get banned?"
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by capableweb on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:24PM (#37692803)
Or: Hey, why did my AWS production server for my startup suddenly go down and I cannot access my account anymore?
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by pmarreck on Thursday September 28, 2023 @06:42PM (#37696895)
This is probably the least-intelligent comment on this entire page. I would literally buy downvotes to bury this obnoxious stupidity into oblivion.

There's a significant contextual, moral and ethical difference between "exploring a lock" and "opening it and stealing whatever it's holding from you".

Also, you're another one who apparently needs to read the domain name of this site aloud to yourself again.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by renewiltord on Thursday September 28, 2023 @08:14PM (#37697724)
> I would literally buy downvotes to bury this obnoxious stupidity into oblivion.

How much will you pay me to delete it? I can send you an Ethereum address.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by pmarreck on Friday September 29, 2023 @07:40PM (#37711414)
/eye roll emoji
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by dheera on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:07PM (#37692572)
Tomorrow it'll be 8 bucks to drink water, 8 bucks to use the bathroom, ...

Yeah, you can argue internet isn't a necessity. Neither is the bathroom, you can use a poo bag and a diaper. But we're a civilized society. So we provide bathrooms to anyone that needs them. And internet access.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by zeroonetwothree on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:38PM (#37692964)
This seems like a poor slippery slope argument. It’s not as if charging for internet is new, it’s been what? 20 years? And yet they still don’t charge for water
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by jrms on Thursday September 28, 2023 @02:12PM (#37693411)
Still
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by Martinussen on Thursday September 28, 2023 @02:13PM (#37693428)
Is that an American thing? Absolutely paying for the water here.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by ShadowBanThis01 on Thursday September 28, 2023 @02:43PM (#37693854)
On planes? Seriously? Where?
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by gruturo on Thursday September 28, 2023 @03:17PM (#37694325)
Lufthansa, or Luftwaffe as I call them due to the... military kindness they often display.

No food and no water. Most recent data point: April 2023, Standard Economy (not Basic Economy). International, 4.5 hours flight (Germany to Tenerife) (and back). The flight had a LH code, although operated by Eurowings which according to Wikipedia is a wholly owned subsidiary of LH (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurowings).

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by mvdwoord on Thursday September 28, 2023 @02:59PM (#37694052)
Recently on a 3 hour flight with ROM air I had to pay for water... not even a single glass for free.

Was quite shocked.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by dheera on Thursday September 28, 2023 @04:53PM (#37695682)
Not only that but at the Beijing airport there were no water refill stations and the bottle of water I bought at the airport POST-security was confiscated upon boarding. Fortunately I was boarding an airline with free water, though.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by Gormo on Thursday September 28, 2023 @07:04PM (#37697114)
And public restrooms seem to be paywalled everywhere in continental Europe too -- not sure about the airlines, since I usually fly US carriers, but every restaurant or shopping mall I visited in Italy, Germany, and the Netherlands required a euro or so to enter the toilet. I've never seen a pay toilet anywhere in the US.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by dheera on Thursday September 28, 2023 @08:04PM (#37697654)
On the other hand, my experience has been that a lot of toilets in US are "customers only" for males but free for females
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by dheera on Thursday September 28, 2023 @04:31PM (#37695391)
Checked bags, carry-on bags, and meals used to be free, and they are all now not free.

There are budget airlines outside the US that are charging for water (which I think is unethical IMO, since people avoiding drinking water could lead to an increase in medical emergencies).

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by pmarreck on Thursday September 28, 2023 @06:40PM (#37696866)
If you really think the folks here do this to save a few bucks, you both 1) don't realize what the average pay of people here is, and 2) are completely tone- and context-deaf.

Look at the domain name of the site you're posting on and read it out loud. FFS dude. LOL

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by dang on Friday September 29, 2023 @02:27AM (#37699982)
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37691621.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by el_benhameen on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:43PM (#37692198)
I’ve always wondered why I get slack and email notifications when I’m on a Southwest flight with free messaging without paying for wifi. You’ve finally solved my mystery!
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by keanebean86 on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:47PM (#37692247)
I had an idea to use Facebook messanger as a proxy. Specifically to use the cheap messaging plan on a cruise ship for real internet access. My home computer would be a gateway that monitors fb and fetches/returns websites. I never even tried because it just sounds like a violation of multiple ToSes. Not to mention message size limitations, throttling, my fb messages being pages of encoded text, etc.

I feel like it would need to work like Opera mini to maybe be usable. Even then interactions would be uncomfortably slow.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_Mini

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by ddalex on Thursday September 28, 2023 @03:20PM (#37694361)
Check out https://github.com/aleixrodriala/wa-tunnel tunnel over whatsapp
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by amalcon on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:14PM (#37692652)
This reminds me of the old tools that tunnel more or less whatever over DNS. I.e. behind the scenes, the tool would look up "base64encodedpacket.domainyoucontrol.example.com", and it would respond with encoded data going the other way. This is because captive portal WiFi often permitted DNS to pass through unimpeded, for various reasons.

I always appreciated the hack, even though I could never bring myself to use it due to the obvious cache pollution problem on the various DNS servers.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by fragmede on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:31PM (#37692875)
Also Internet over ICMP, for when captive portals used to let those through.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by xeromal on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:21PM (#37692750)
This reminds me of a web browser years ago that would use MMS to transfer web pages to the user without using internet service. This was in the early days. I think it was a Java app for the Motorola razor IIRC
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by interestica on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:44PM (#37693055)
> There's this iOS app called Flightly

I guess it's Flighty (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/flighty-live-flight-tracker/id...)

I love that people are into this. In the days before iPhones, I had "Microsoft Streets and Trips" + a USB GPS unit + Laptop. It was fun having it on a flight and seeing movement data in realtime. It was less fun answering questions from people who thought looking at the GPS data was somehow nefarious.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by geostupid on Thursday September 28, 2023 @02:02PM (#37693286)
Ha! I've used a high-end GPS to see my location and other fun facts in flight. I learned to keep it in my pocket as despite my attempts to explain it was only a receiver, I was told by the flight attendant to "PUT IT AWAY." Not being one to push back as to be removed for that flight, I did just that.

Streets and Trips was fun on a laptop for long car drives as you could live reroute in the car much like any old app can do these days but seemed somehow magical back then.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by joezydeco on Thursday September 28, 2023 @02:26PM (#37693610)
FAs can be really strange about that kind of stuff, not just out of ignorance.

My kid liked to suction cup his GoPro to the window to take a time lapse movie of the flight and one FA told him he had to take it off the window because he was, and I quote: "modifying the structure of the aircraft and that's not FAA-approved".

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by bunabhucan on Thursday September 28, 2023 @02:48PM (#37693927)
Probably just didn't want kid spit on the window.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by edrxty on Thursday September 28, 2023 @03:36PM (#37694640)
Had this happen to me with some duct tape and a malfunctioning strobing light next to me on a red-eye. I'm an aircraft builder but she didn't want to hear my explanation about how TSOs and the FARs work. I just waited until they stopped paying attention.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by wolverine876 on Thursday September 28, 2023 @04:23PM (#37695302)
I would guess that the flight attendant is doing their job. They do not have the authority or expertise to risk the airplane based on their own analysis, or based on some random passenger's explanation. The clearly correct solution is to remove the device and then there is no risk to the plane. I expect they are strictly required to respond that way and have no leeway.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by buildsjets on Thursday September 28, 2023 @04:31PM (#37695396)
There has been a lot of debate in the aviation maintenance community regarding the legality of attaching gopros etc. to aircraft with suction cups. Someone eventually wrote to the FAA chief counsel and asked.

"Another consideration, in the case of this type of equipment, is the applicability of the term "alteration". FAA Order 8110.3 7E, defines an alteration as "a modification of an aircraft from one sound state to another sound state". The use of suction cups, or other temporary methods of attachment (not including permanent mechanical attachments to the aircraft), would not be considered a modification to the aircraft."

https://mypilotpro.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/FAA-Camera...

But still, the aircraft is the the airline's property, not yours. If they tell you not do something to it, you don't get a choice in the matter.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by interestica on Thursday September 28, 2023 @05:05PM (#37695834)
> installation of external mounts

That memo is about attaching it externally. Attaching it to an internal window is probably a non-issue.

I once had a security agent ask me to prove a GoPro was a camera because they didn't understand how there could be no screen or viewfinder. It was most frustrating because this was an area where they would have encountered it many times (lots of scuba divers).

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by zikduruqe on Thursday September 28, 2023 @04:01PM (#37695003)
I used to do that also.

Way before cellphones, I'd bring my 2m radio on the plane and make contacts on simplex. That was fun to throw your callsign out and say "aeronautical mobile".

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by kawfey on Thursday September 28, 2023 @09:58PM (#37698424)
I still sneak in an HT to listen to VHF/UHF ham radio and airband. One flight, we were experiencing moderate turbulence and didn't get our drinks/snacks. The captain announced "we're asking for clearance to help us get to a smoother altitude..." meanwhile did nothing of the sort on the actual radio. Lol.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by cromka on Friday September 29, 2023 @03:48AM (#37700544)
They use text for communication, too.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by adrr on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:49PM (#37693113)
Push notifications have background notifications that are used to update apps while they aren't loaded. We used them update our catalog/home screen on shopping app, its makes the app feel much more responsive when they open the app and content instantly appears instead of waiting for some API calls.

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/usernotifications/...

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by lupire on Thursday September 28, 2023 @02:19PM (#37693522)
Does that work on Android? I've never seen a non-authorized notification in a Chat or Mail app on a flight.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by hackernewds on Thursday September 28, 2023 @03:55PM (#37694906)
so why would I use this Flightly app? seems it delivers messages all the same?
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by madeofpalk on Thursday September 28, 2023 @07:27PM (#37697306)
It works not because Alaska wants to give you notifications for your messages, but because iMessage literally is transported over APNS.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by toast0 on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:32PM (#37692031)
I used to work at WhatsApp (until the end of 2019) on many things, including special pricing (aka zero rating); we did not work with airlines, and would not have participated in a project where messages and attachments where treated differently.

That said, technically there's two pretty easy ways to do it for WhatsApp traffic, and then there's the way I suspect they're doing it...

a) chat runs on different ips than attachments; always has, most likely always will (other than some transitional HAProxy at the old hosting when nearly everything had been moved to the new hosting).

b) WA chat is not HTTPS (or even TLS) and attachments are. Chat also cycles between different ports, so you could just block port 443 and be good.

c) I actually suspect, based on poking around a little that it's mostly just killing connections that use a lot of data. Maybe in combination with some other things. Being on a plane doesn't really put me in a debug the network kind of mood, so I never got to the bottom of it, but I'd regularly be able to make short connections to my home network while on the messaging plan, at least when this stuff was new. OTOH, I think I recall being able to connect through the WA VPN while on a plane on the messaging plan, but that was when we had a publicly available, but not publicly linked list of IP addresses on our website; I have no doubt that DPI vendors had that list.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by dgellow on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:37PM (#37692097)
> WA chat is not HTTPS (or even TLS)

If you don’t mind, could you expend on this? Are there specific reasons to not be using TLS?

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by blapp on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:53PM (#37692352)
It's based on the Noise Protocol Framework in the outermost layer, which encrypts a compressed XMPP stream. The end-to-end encryption is done within various XMPP message payloads using the Signal Protocol, which encrypts message data serialized using Protocol Buffers, with different formats depending on the message type (text, image, video, sticker, etc).
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by toast0 on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:57PM (#37692418)
I should probably refer you to the encryption whitepaper [1], but the basics are that Chat uses the Noise Protocol rather than TLS. All things being equal, the security properties are about equivalent, however all things aren't equal. The Noise handshake is smaller than the TLS handshake, and Noise doesn't have extraneous features WhatsApp doesn't use. Additionally, at the time of Noise adoption, TLS lacked a means for 0-RTT data (now available with TLS 1.3 Early Data), which meant using TLS would have added at least one round trip; possibly two, depending on which TLS library used. [2] You can use TLS without x.509, but it's not very common; avoiding x.509 was a definite plus.

I wasn't much involved in anything on the chat channel, and I didn't do any implementation work on Noise, but I did some later prototype work with it, and if I recall correctly, it had much simpler framing than TLS as well; although maybe that was mostly TLS options getting me down --- the SNI header has 9 bytes of overhead, 5 of which are lengths, Noise didn't have anything like that as I recall. Do you really two bytes of versioning on every application data packet, like TLS has? I'm not sure you really need a type indicator byte either, context says you're sending a handshake packet initially, and then application data after that, but I'm pretty rusty on this now, so maybe there's a justification.

For users paying for internet by the byte, every byte counts. For users on networks with large delays, every round trip counts. For attachments, it's less critical (if your data access costs were high, you could configure attachments not to load) and that infrastructure was always built around http(s), so while there would have been an efficiency improvement to move that off https, it would be hard to justify the engineering time; especially post the move to FB infrastructure with its CDN that was easily configured for our attachments. OTOH, chat never ran on TLS, so adopting Noise vs adopting TLS was a choice we could consider, and we picked the best solution for us. Unfortunately, it's pretty easy to identify Noise vs TLS --- OTOH, the service IPs are already identifiable, so a little more blending on the protocol level wouldn't help much.

[1] https://www.whatsapp.com/security/WhatsApp-Security-Whitepap...

[2] Also using system TLS libraries is fraught with peril. It's fine, but not super great, for http, but using it for a custom binary protocol is going to be terrible. You'll need to debug all of the edge cases that the system https library doesn't hit, and will then have to craft workarounds that just work, even if you can't reliably identify the underlying versions because Android OEMs do weird stuff.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by dgellow on Thursday September 28, 2023 @04:08PM (#37695095)
Thanks for the answer, I didn’t expect that much details!
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by jedberg on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:37PM (#37692952)
We didn't use TLS at Netflix either, and instead used our own encryption protocol that ran on top of HTTP. We could do this because we controlled the clients too.

The why was because of trust store issues. Every device has its own built in trust store, and especially on devices like TVs and DVD players, they couldn't be updated. After looking at all the devices we supported, there was no common certificate signer amongst all of them.

This meant that we would either have to get multiple SSL certs signed by different parties (some of which weren't all that secure) and present the right one depending on your device type, or we could just roll our own over HTTP. So we chose the latter.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by toast0 on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:50PM (#37693117)
Yeah, at WA we didn't have too much of a problem with trust store issues; although we did do extensive testing when we switched CAs. We did have to deal with the end of SHA1 certs though, I think we were able to get all of our clients to use sha2, but some of the platform browsers couldn't; and then we had to fiddle with our TLS server to send sha2 certs to some clients and sha1 certs to others.

Of course, there's not really very useful client identification in the TLS Hello, so you have to kind of guess who needs what. If we had to use different CAs for different clients, it would have gotten a lot harder, because it's not like we could rely on clients filling out SNI either. So then you need to get more ips for each service. I do recall needing to do that a little, but we only needed a single 'legacy' group that was useful for everything that couldn't manage the modern certs.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by Sohcahtoa82 on Thursday September 28, 2023 @03:56PM (#37694930)
> Every device has its own built in trust store, and especially on devices like TVs and DVD players, they couldn't be updated.

Was creating your own certificate authority and pinning it in the app not an option?

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by toast0 on Thursday September 28, 2023 @04:24PM (#37695313)
Bringing your own trust store to system https libraries is not often supported. Especially when you get into kinds of embedded environments Netflix supports. You also might not have the capability to bring your own TLS library either. If it's a limited environment, you might only get reasonable performance if you use the system ciphers, and they may not be exposed as primitives, and x.509 parsing takes up a lot of code space in the likely event that you've got limitations there too.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by jedberg on Thursday September 28, 2023 @04:47PM (#37695609)
In most environments you have to use the built in libraries for network connectivity, so you have to use their trust stores. Also space is very limited for the client, so you can't just put everything into it.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by waiwai933 on Thursday September 28, 2023 @08:58PM (#37698026)
Our solution for the same problem was to just have different subdomains for each cert signer (and make sure we ship the right base URL for each manufacturer's app), so we didn't need to do any clever device-sniffing at the SSL termination point. I think rolling our own encryption sounds much scarier, but equally we weren't running at Netflix scale.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by eadmund on Friday September 29, 2023 @10:56AM (#37705218)
This discussion is another great example of why HTTP without TLS can be just fine, even desirable.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by danielfoster on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:13PM (#37691740)
I've also wondered why Grindr but not Tinder works on the "messaging only" plan. Someone at Alaska must have had fun with that one.

Flightaware.com also works, presumably because Alaska uses Flightaware for its tracking map.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by 0_____0 on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:56PM (#37692394)
Grindr is a logistics app, Tinder is entertainment :p
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by noahtallen on Thursday September 28, 2023 @02:39PM (#37693803)
> Flightaware.com also works

Unfortunately, I couldn't get it to load on my Alaskan flight a few days ago on the free messaging plan. Maybe they've changed it

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by c7DJTLrn on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:35PM (#37692073)
You could try iodine, which is an IP-over-DNS tunnel. This should work unless the gateway has very restrictive rules on where DNS traffic can go.

https://github.com/yarrick/iodine

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by jedberg on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:39PM (#37692976)
Most captive portals have gotten wise to this trick and block large DNS requests.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by roygbiv2 on Friday September 29, 2023 @05:14AM (#37701159)
Yeah I recently found this out. It never really did work that well, I did manage to telnet into an SMTP server and manually send an email but for anything else it struggled.

I wonder if TCP over ICMP would work better.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by gouggoug on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:00PM (#37691536)
I've been wondering the same.

I wonder if they just do some rudimentary packet inspection and drop packets above a certain size. My thinking being that short text messages result in very small packets, while large images will result in many large packets. Dropping large packets is most likely OK. I'd need to test this hypothesis by sending a very large text message (resulting in many large packets)

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by technothrasher on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:27PM (#37691953)
Many years ago, when hotels first started having and charging for WiFi connections, I wrote a simple little tunnel using the DNS port back to my server. Since the hotels didn't block that port or even bother to check what traffic was going over it, it worked like a charm.

I tried it on a trip to Tokyo and immediately got completely blocked. It took me a few minutes to figure out they'd blacklisted my MAC address. I changed the MAC of that interface and then behaved.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by someotherperson on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:30PM (#37692864)
Reminds me of using VPNs in hotels in China some years ago. Traffic would work for a few minutes and then the Great Firewall kicks in, fingerprints the traffic as VPN and the IP address and the MAC gets blocked. I'd rotate the endpoint and the MAC address and get a few more minutes, rinse and repeat.

I think I had to use Shadowsocks or something at the end to completely bypass it.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by superkuh on Thursday September 28, 2023 @04:03PM (#37695021)
Shadowsocks(-libev) is great. I use it in the USA with Comcast to prevent their MITM attacks on HTTP connections.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by matsemann on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:06PM (#37691633)
How does that fly (pun intended) with regards to net neutrality?

Where I live, some mobile operators gave you "unlimited streaming" in their data plan, but only for certain popular services (spotify, youtube, netflix basically). Since this would make it harder for others to disrupt the big ones, it was quickly forbidden.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by mdasen on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:26PM (#37691944)
In the US (I believe) Net Neutrality basically died. Even before that, it was allowed to zero-rate categories of apps (like messaging). That might be coming back now that the FCC has 5 commissioners again and can reinstate Net Neutrality.

However, even with reasonably strict neutrality, this is still possible. Many mobile carriers zero-rated streaming services here, but unlike your operators they'd do it for any streaming service. It was pretty easy for any streaming provider to sign up. They'd basically give the operator the IP ranges they'd be streaming from and the operator would just zero-rate data to those IP ranges (and they'd usually apply bandwidth throttling to around 1.5Mbps so that you'd only get 480-720p video). The key is simply not discriminating between providers within a category.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by dehrmann on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:42PM (#37692180)
This is the situation where net neutrality falls over because there's very often more demand, even at 1.5Mbps for a stream, than an airplane's link can provide.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by Dylan16807 on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:07PM (#37692567)
On an airplane in particular, you can set the limit lower for everything, and that doesn't violate neutrality.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by MostlyStable on Thursday September 28, 2023 @04:10PM (#37695114)
So many people seem to think that Net Neutrality disallowed _any_ kind of network management, when it simply disallowed service provider level preference. You can, under net neutrality, throttle _all_ video content, if you want to, you just can't only throttle YouTube and not Netflix (for example.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by haswell on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:45PM (#37692212)
Airlines, coffee shops and similar entities providing Internet as an ancillary service were not subject to these rules when they were in effect.

The rules primarily target ISPs selling directly to customers.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by dehrmann on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:50PM (#37692304)
It also fails for mobile data and large crowds. Try checking your email at a concert.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by RulerOf on Thursday September 28, 2023 @04:22PM (#37695293)
I always enable my 5G when I get into big crowds and it usually fixes that problem, assuming service is available.

I usually keep it off otherwise though because average bandwidth tends to be better on LTE in my experience.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by haswell on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:29PM (#37691979)
When the rules were still active, net neutrality did not apply to coffee shops, airlines, etc.

> 52. Finally, we decline to apply our rules directly to coffee shops, bookstores, airlines, and other entities when they acquire Internet service from a broadband provider to enable their patrons to access the Internet from their establishments (we refer to these entities as “premise operators”). These services are typically offered by the premise operator as an ancillary benefit to patrons ... Although broadband providers that offer such services are subject to open Internet rules, we note that addressing traffic unwanted by a premise operator is a legitimate network management purpose. [0]

It seems like a reasonable distinction: if you're letting someone else use your Internet connection, it's your prerogative to block things that you don't want on your network.

- [0] https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/FCC-10-201A1.pdf (page 31)

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by HWR_14 on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:30PM (#37692006)
Other people have suggested it's done by limiting the size of the data transmitted to make the connection only useful to text messages, possibly resetting the connection regularly. If so, it would in fact comply with both the principles of net neutrality and any laws I know of. You could create matsemann's text service as long as it also used small amounts of data it guessed could only be used for text.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by hot_gril on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:24PM (#37691896)
Is net neutrality even law anymore? T-Mobile has had Binge on for a long time, which zero-rates certain video streaming services. And part of that was even under the old net neutrality laws.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by toast0 on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:36PM (#37692081)
Binge On doesn't fall under strict net neutrality, but they are at least publicly open to all lawful and licensed content audio/video providers, and the technical requirements are not very high. I don't know what the actual onboarding process is like, but they've got a lot of providers signed up...
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by hot_gril on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:04PM (#37692521)
https://www.t-mobile.com/tv-streaming/binge-on/apps-list.htm... doesn't list all that many providers if we're talking about all video streaming services worldwide. I notice a large one under the gaming category missing, Twitch.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by toast0 on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:18PM (#37692713)
I think they've got to be licensed for US customers, or T-Mobile USA isn't going to include them. Twitch does seem to be a notable missing provider; Amazon video is on the program though, so maybe there's some technical or product thing on Twitch's side.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by hot_gril on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:41PM (#37693002)
Even US-only. Broadcast networks category is pretty slim, for instance.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by technothrasher on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:35PM (#37692067)
No, but the now Democratic majority at the FCC is currently actively trying to bring it back.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by bombcar on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:24PM (#37692789)
Some states implemented their own versions of net neutrality.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by hot_gril on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:42PM (#37693011)
Gotta disable in-flight messaging while flying over certain states ;)
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by burkaman on Thursday September 28, 2023 @02:54PM (#37693981)
Net neutrality is the law in California, but T-Mobile says Binge On is ok because any video streaming service can participate for free. It sounds reasonable to me and apparently the California regulators are fine with it.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by hot_gril on Thursday September 28, 2023 @04:30PM (#37695390)
I'm fine with it, but it also clearly violates net neutrality.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by burkaman on Thursday September 28, 2023 @05:11PM (#37695919)
Here's the California law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Internet_Consumer_P.... T-Mobile Binge On is zero-rating. T-Mobile's claim is that they aren't getting paid for it, and that any video provider can participate, so they aren't only zero-rating "some content in a category". It sounds like that second part isn't true, so they are probably violating the law but nobody is being harmed so nobody has sued.

I agree that allowing any form of zero-rating is not full net neutrality because it isn't treating all packets the same, but I don't think it's fair to say that therefore there is no net neutrality in California. It's a very strong and effective law and gets like 95% of the way to full "dumb pipe" net neutrality.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by tuetuopay on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:12PM (#37691721)
some options:

- attachments are likely stored in a different part of the infra than raw messages (like on some s3 bucket somewhere), so it's pretty easy to allow the WA/iMessage/Signal/Messenger API while blocking their CDN through dns blocking, ip range blocking, sni inspection, etc.

- they cut the tcp connection once more than e.g. 1MB has been transferred. it would result in slightly degraded user experience (the message tcp stream needs to be periodically reopened), and may not be foolproof is apps are smart and resume the download where it failed instead of from the start

I lean for the first option as it's both the simplest and most foolproof option.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by phantom784 on Thursday September 28, 2023 @11:58AM (#37691486)
I'd suspect it kills TCP connections once a threshold of data has been transferred, and the threshold is enough to let text through but not enough for attachments.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by grishka on Thursday September 28, 2023 @02:15PM (#37693450)
Good luck doing that against Telegram. It would simply reconnect and resume the download where it left off.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by justapassenger on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:31PM (#37692018)
I don’t think they have any sophisticated solution for sniffing traffic. It’s most likely simple firewall + deals with Apple/Meta. Many airlines offer basic Wi-Fi for messages nowadays, so it’s very likely that big tech developed solution for it (especially, as they have initiative to do that, so their apps can work).
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by alexfoo on Thursday September 28, 2023 @11:59AM (#37691519)
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by RandallBrown on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:24PM (#37691903)
Probably 10-15 years ago when wifi on airlines was still pretty brand new I remember a fun hack for free Internet that involved Google Translate.

Because the wifi landing pages used Google Analytics, they allowed traffic through from many of the Google domains. You could then go to Google translate and translate the website from English to English and use it as sort of a proxy server to get free Internet.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by smegger001 on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:59PM (#37692451)
You could probably have used googels cache to read arbitrary pages as well.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by spike021 on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:51PM (#37693145)
I'll probably show my age, but around 15 years ago I was in high school and they blocked most websites as well. This "hack" using Google Translate was how some of us got around the blocklist for many things. It was nice because it didn't involve having to install anything special or try to change configurations that were probably monitored by library/school admin.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by noman-land on Thursday September 28, 2023 @05:03PM (#37695801)
This hack often works today to get around paywalls.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by hot_gril on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:23PM (#37691878)
I always assumed they have a whitelist of iMessage/Whatsapp/whatever IP addresses. It doesn't seem to work for all messaging apps in general.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by organsnyder on Thursday September 28, 2023 @11:59AM (#37691507)
United wifi is similar. I've found that notifications work for most things, including my Home Assistant instance—they must all use the same Apple push service.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by atourgates on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:04PM (#37691588)
I noticed the same on Alaska flying last weekend.

As soon as I activated the "Free Messaging" service, I got a bunch of notifications from my Apple Home and Google Nest devices.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by snazz on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:06PM (#37691628)
Yes, APNs (Apple Push Notification service) has to be allowed for notifications to come through from messaging apps and the network operator can’t tell whether it’s an allowed messaging app or any other kind of notification.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by mcast on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:13PM (#37692639)
The scale of Apple’s notification service must be pretty large. Granted, most notifications don’t have strong SLA guarantees but I don’t remember it having any downtime either.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by Klonoar on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:33PM (#37692900)
They don't really make guarantees about the reliability of push notifications (IIRC), so it's unlikely you'd see anything about downtime unless it was sustained for some time.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by SirMaster on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:06PM (#37691635)
On iOS all notifications have to use Apple's Push service.

And the WiFi essentially has to allow the Apple push notification system entirely in order for iMessage to work fully the way people expect.

So it's really a side effect. But yeah for example with the free iMessage connection on Southwest, I can see all the notifications come in on Discord, but of course I cannot connect within the discord app to actually load all those messages. I can only read them as they come in as push notifications.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by Xeamek on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:39PM (#37692127)
>On iOS all notifications have to use Apple's Push service.

Have to? Isn't there an option to send 'offline' notification? I mean, coming from the app itself, rather then external callback? With that, app could ommit the official way of using Apple Push service, no?

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by SirMaster on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:51PM (#37692315)
Well, apps can only "run in the background" for up to 10 minutes.

So sure, an app can generate a notification popup itself, but it's pretty limited as it won't be able to generate a notification after being backgrounded for more than 10 minutes.

And the 10 minutes is also only if the app is designed to extend the duration as long as possible. Normally it would get cut off after 1 minute.

So because of this it seems that in the vast, vast majority of cases apps choose to send their notifications from the Apple Push notification service.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by WirelessGigabit on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:52PM (#37692323)
Yea but those mean the app has to be running. The main advantage of Apple's Push is that the app can be put to sleep and only wake up when you tap a notification.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by TRiG_Ireland on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:02PM (#37691562)
I've come across wifi zones which allow normal web browsing, WhatsApp messaging (including pictures), but not WhatsApp calls. I saw it first in Hollyhead Port while waiting for a ferry. WhatsApp threw up an error message saying that calls were disallowed by the wifi network.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by sixstringtheory on Thursday September 28, 2023 @11:58AM (#37691484)
Could always send base64 data strings!
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by godelski on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:23PM (#37691877)
On my recent United flight, where they had the same policy I was sending image messages to friends through Signal. But it was rather slow, so my best guess is rate limiting.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by teeray on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:19PM (#37691815)
Time to implement IP over FB Messenger
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by falcor84 on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:24PM (#37691900)
Absolutely. And I'll just put this here for anyone who's looking for inspiration:

https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2549

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by dannyfritz07 on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:17PM (#37691783)
Google Voice always works for me too FYI.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by miki123211 on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:14PM (#37691748)
Do they allow Telegram?

If so, that would be the easiest, Telegram has a really good bot API.

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by Karrot_Kream on Thursday September 28, 2023 @02:03PM (#37693295)
Many do but some don't. I wrote an HTTP Proxy for Telegram and it works fine for those situations but is very slow. I prefer using an NNCP proxy I wrote because the protocol doesn't have online liveness requirements.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by gsich on Thursday September 28, 2023 @12:23PM (#37691880)
SNI or IP lists.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by dheera on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:06PM (#37692542)
IP-over-Facebook. So that's what the world has come to ...
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by kayson on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:16PM (#37692682)
I can't seem to find it, but there was a blog post on HN a while back about how someone set up a proxy to browse Wikipedia by sending and receiving WhatsApp messages. I'm sure you could extend that to be a web proxy.
Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by aantix on Thursday September 28, 2023 @02:13PM (#37693422)
Hussein Nasser covered this. His videos are great.

How Airline WIFI allows Texting but not Media in WhatsApp/iMessage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYSxxO2yZp8

Re:WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight by aabhay on Thursday September 28, 2023 @03:06PM (#37694146)
So so surprised that nobody has found out the hack for free wifi on alaska flights. (At risk of losing awesome free wifi)

1. Open browser with iOS user agent and ios sized h/w. 2. Click on t-mobile free wifi link 3. Enter _any_ t mobile number you may know.