News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by sillysaurusx on Sunday July 23, 2023 @01:29PM (#36837545)
The eternal struggle. Information wants to be free, and then people use those freedoms to do the most screwed up things imaginable, and people like this pay the price.

It’s a damn shame how the original cyberpunk dream played out. We could’ve had a world where companies couldn’t do anything about people using their ideas. Instead we get one where you can’t even be anonymous without rubbing elbows with child predators.

It’s surprising how much anonymity and the subject at hand are correlated. In my 20s I liked to explore, as I’m sure many of you do too. I once met someone in the Whonix community who wanted to nix google maps entirely; he spent a lot of time downloading maps and trying to make a way to view them locally, which I think is going to be prescient one day. It already is in many parts of the world — you don’t have cell service, so you can’t just pull up google maps. Nowadays starlink solves that problem, but back then it wasn’t clear that we’d ever be able to have maps at our fingertips regardless of internet access. This was back in the era of that poor CNET reporter that got lost with his family in the mountains precisely because of no maps, and ended up dying to exposure when he went to get help. Never leave your car.

I found all of this fascinating. What a project! Make all of google maps accessible right from your phone, with no internet. I briefly fell in love with that community.

Ultimately what drove me away was the literal flood of child porn that was always right next to anything to do with tor, whonix, or anonymity in general. I have a pretty high tolerance for “operating in gray areas,” like this guy. But one of the tragedies of the cyberpunk dream is that the entire scene has been coopted by cp. In some sense cp is the ultimate test of anonymity, since you’ll be thrown in prison pretty much instantly if caught. So perhaps it’s no surprise that it’s the most common and pervasive result of anonymity, but it sure is a shame.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by wkat4242 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @01:33PM (#36837599)
> It’s a damn shame how the original cyberpunk dream played out. We could’ve had a world where companies couldn’t do anything about people using their ideas. Instead we get one where you can’t even be anonymous without rubbing elbows with child predators.

Corporate government is pretty much a staple of. all cyberpunk franchises though.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by EGreg on Sunday July 23, 2023 @01:43PM (#36837716)
Maybe open source generative AI can help solve cp. Cater to all these pedophile fetishes, and no need to exploit children? Remember how we phased out ivory for piano keys, and other poaching?

With diamonds, there is still a push to source “the real thing” kept alive by De Beers, and other cartels like that. But for a lot of poaching, we found replacements. I think that’s how plastic got started too btw!

Also PETA has approved fake lab-grown meat, perhaps it can reduce demand for torturing so many animals in factory farms.

PS: Japan has a culture of infantile hentai or something in its animation - which may alleviate a lot of demand for actual cp — how much cp is in Japan? (There seems to be a lot of unusual/unnatural sexual norms in Japan… from Hikkikomori to dating vending machines to total celibacy for a large proportion of the population.) https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2009/may/11/japan-child-po...

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by throw0101a on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:32PM (#36838229)
> Maybe open source generative AI can help solve cp. Cater to all these pedophile fetishes, and no need to exploit children?

Illegal in Canada (even animated/cartoons):

* https://windsor.ctvnews.ca/man-facing-child-porn-charges-aft...

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by tekla on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:38PM (#36838281)
CP is disgusting and everything, but I'm kinda weirded out about thought crime. If no harm is being done, not even indirectly to anyone else, why is it a crime?

It's not illegal to write a fanfic that you keep to yourself about all the weird ways that you want to torture and kill someone.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by EGreg on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:48PM (#36838387)
Well, if actual harm to people and children is what we want to reduce, then perhaps decriminalizing an innocuous (as in no victims) form of it may actually reduce the harm to actual people.

Just like the cases for decriminalizing prostitution and drugs: https://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalizatio...

And btw -- it's not just about thoughtcrime, it's a major double standard, seems to me. In the West it's perfectly normal for Hollywood to put out "Rated R" horror movies that feature gore and torture, ripping off limbs, mass murders, etc. Such as the movie "Hostel". I never understood why that is OK, why the music industry has pushed gangsta rap etc. for decades, but then something like Cuties out of France which actually critiques the hypersexualization of teenage girls that is taking place, causes an uproar, while the industries doing the hypersexualization are now an accepted part of our liberal "freedom of speech".

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by singpolyma3 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:15PM (#36839361)
Cuties controversy was only about some versions of the poster, and no one involved saw the movie. No one who watched the movie thought it was super controversial I think.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by brightlancer on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:41PM (#36839611)
> Cuties controversy was only about some versions of the poster,

False.

The final performance by the young girls was also discussed. You can find it if you want to watch something disgusting, but it was very sexual and OBVIOUSLY inappropriate for children.

That it's common to see children perform such sexual routines at dance competitions doesn't mean it's appropriate.

The idea that this was Only The Poster was a lie created by a media that thinks child exploitation is OK. Look at the media response to the film "Sound of Freedom", where it's "QAnon adjacent" to oppose child sex trafficking.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by johnnyanmac on Sunday July 23, 2023 @07:17PM (#36840987)
>That it's common to see children perform such sexual routines at dance competitions doesn't mean it's appropriate.

"Sexual" is relative so people will just be talking past each other in regards to that. There's no real discussion to be had there.

>The idea that this was Only The Poster was a lie created by a media that thinks child exploitation is OK

FWIW, I only heard about the poster and nothing about the full release. I'm sure some people still argued in the same way people argue about anything for months/years on end, but there was definitely a lot more controversy about the poster. Be it because it was the first look/awareness of the film, or because the film was simply nothing to write about can be left to people who actually watched the movie. I have no interest to.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by EGreg on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:39PM (#36839594)
https://www.parentstv.org/blog/how-does-a-film-critic-justif...

These guys did:

As for Netflix, how can the company possibly reconcile a “coming-of-age” film, and one that centers entirely on 11-year-old girls, with a TV-MA rating? This is not a random decision – it has become corporate practice.

We have frequently called on Netflix to stop hosting content that sexualizes children, such as Baby, Big Mouth, Sex Education, or that glamorizes rape and sexual assault such as 365 Days.

And Netflix habitually markets adult content to young audiences. Parents Television Council research of Netflix programming designated as “Teen” reveals that nearly half was rated either TV-MA (104 titles, or 40.8%) or R (23 titles, or 9.0%); and every single program that carried a TV-14 moniker included harsh profanities.

While we may not always see eye-to-eye with film critics, the criticism of the critics is telling. Cuties is not the first time Netflix has blatantly promoted programming that sexualizes children, but we’re calling on them for this to be the last.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by Tao3300 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:06PM (#36840369)
Did they watch it? I don't see anywhere where they said they actually watched it.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by brightlancer on Sunday July 23, 2023 @05:12PM (#36839892)
Legalized drug sales and prostitution among adults have _fewer_ victims but that doesn't mean no victims. Legalization is better but it isn't a panacea.

> Such as the movie "Hostel". I never understood why that is OK, why the music industry has pushed gangsta rap etc. for decades, but then something like Cuties out of France which actually critiques the hypersexualization of teenage girls that is taking place, causes an uproar, while the industries doing the hypersexualization are now an accepted part of our liberal "freedom of speech".

AFAIK, everyone involved in the production of "Hostel" was a legal adult.

The girls who were the main characters in "Cuties" were not legal adults, nor anywhere close. I don't even think they were teenagers. From the clip I saw, it wasn't a _critique_ of hypersexualization so much as LITERAL HYPERSEXUALIZATION. There may have been an ironic plot around it saying "this is bad mmm'kay" but that doesn't excuse using children to engage in sexualized behavior.

There's an important conversation to be had about US culture and violence versus sex and language (South Park parodied this well), but "Cuties" is a horrible example because it used actual children to engage in actual sexual objectification.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by anthk on Monday July 24, 2023 @05:40AM (#36845155)
That existed in the late 90's with the Spice Girls and preteen/early teen girls doing girl bands mimicking the dances in every school in Europe.

Yet no one gave a shit. This is the new Satanic panic, a scapegoat to avoid focusing ourselves on important shit.

Paranoia sells, and it's the main fuel of the US style Capitalism, getting a full panic state almost monthly in order to be a mindless consumer.

OFC satanic panic was the same crap, in order to keep the children and teens away to non-consumit (read: TV and mainstream toys, music and movies) so the industry didn't collapse in a few years. And, yet, thanks to internet, years later, they did.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by anthk on Monday July 24, 2023 @05:45AM (#36845193)
Another similar case on shameless promotion due to fear it's the Spanish media depicting squatters as the worst evil ever, specially in morning TV talk shows targeted to middle aged women (housewifes/mothers with children).

Guess what? between the show sections, (and shows themselves) they are trying to sell home alarms with lots of ads in the morning to the viewers. Bingo.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by throw0101a on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:51PM (#36838433)
It is not without debate:

* https://digitalcommons.schulichlaw.dal.ca/djls/vol25/iss1/2/

And as my updated/edited comment mention, Canada is not unique in this regard:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_child_pornography

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_fictional_porn...

Going back to Canada, some cases:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_pornography_laws_in_Cana...

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Sharpe

Perhaps the thinking is that it could create a positive feedback loop that may help the desires grow to the point 'actual' action is taken.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by tekla on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:11PM (#36838629)
I'm sort of confused by these rulings. So people got convicted for possessing loli manga/similar stuff that has no relation to real life at all.

I understand that it can be illegal at the State level, and that its a grey area at the federal level. What I don't get is the disconnect between these rulings and whatever is available on the clearnet.

We're not talking onion sites. Reddit, Twitter, 4chan, pixv, tumblr, Patreon whatever sites that you can just go to that shows up the front page of Google. They all contain similar content and almost none of it is taken down for illegality, at most because someone thought it was too ick and Ad money, or posted in a non-r18 area.

Even fucking 4chan is incredibly strict about ban hammering/deleting anything that is close to CP

Genshin Impact and Blue Archive are not popular because they are good games.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by johnnyanmac on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:50PM (#36840787)
>They all contain similar content and almost none of it is taken down for illegality, at most because someone thought it was too ick and Ad money, or posted in a non-r18 area.

Simple, the internet is huge and some currently contended US law means that (past illegal content) a web host isn't responsible for content users upload. Copyright means that corporations can DMCA certain content off, but otherwise, there's not much to do. Companies don't WANT to have to look through every single post on a site that big, so if they can automate or simply ignore it, they will.

The legality in Canada is questionable, but Canada isn't looking through Reddit with a fine tooth comb (P.S. it technically is against reddit TOS to upload lol manga stuff. But it's hard to enforce on small subreddits). Canada may not even know what Pixiv is, and Patreon is often behind paywalls. It would just take a good (well, bad) mainstream awareness to answer your question, and the answer would turn out to mostly be "because politicians didn't know until CNN/Fox News blasted it".

That much was obvious during the U.S. controversy on Rapelay, a Japanese 3d eroge simulator that was not even sold in the US (nor ever has been), simply mislabeled by Amazon and visible in American's store for a while.

>Genshin Impact and Blue Archive are not popular because they are good games.

well we're getting very off topic but this is still an odd angle. There's no one reason why these games are popular and talking about fan art vs. game quality is arguing a chicken vs. the egg. Let's just agree that fan engagement in this day and age can be a force multiplier in terms of advertising something and spreading the brand. But 10,000 x 0 is still zero. Just ask how F-Zero is doing.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by xigoi on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:57PM (#36839156)
The issue has become so emotionalized that if you say anything that even remotely looks like supporting pedophilia, people will tell you to go kill yourself.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by pessimizer on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:29PM (#36839498)
They'll do that if you criticize the Barbie movie, or fail to.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by johnnyanmac on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:31PM (#36840609)
Barbie has always been strangely entwined in the political atmosphere, funnily enough. You become an iconic kids toy and it's inevitable.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by Tao3300 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @05:58PM (#36840286)
It seems there's nothing worse than a moderate these days. One extreme thinks I must be a Satanist for not believing in the massive conspiracy to harvest adrenochrome from tortured children, while the other extreme thinks I must be a Nazi for not believing in a trans genocide.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by stevenwoo on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:32PM (#36840617)
Slight correction: it’s now every Americans’ first amendment right to send that fanfic to the subject after Counterman vs Colorado.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by johnnyanmac on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:38PM (#36840690)
>It's not illegal to write a fanfic that you keep to yourself about all the weird ways that you want to torture and kill someone.

pedantic, but it depends on many factors that can make that goal realistic. You probably wouldn't get flack about how you'd kill Trump or any public figure you're far away from, but some specific individual can be seen as a threat in some countries. Even the US isn't fully lenient on that.

>If no harm is being done, not even indirectly to anyone else, why is it a crime?

politics, mostly. For example, in Japan uncensored genetalia is still illegal, animated or otherwise. Despite some of the most explicit pornography hailing from it. These come from WW2 times where the US imposed a bunch of sanctions, but have long since been irrelevant. So why not just repeal that law?

Well, what politician wants to be the one to fall on that sword and get the buck rolling? It's political suicide to the voter base (mostly older people) even if most people wouldn't be strongly affected by it. That's one among many many other factors, of course.

And that's a relatively uncontroversial aspect of society. Can you imagine trying to go to bat about the above topic?

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by hakavlad on Monday July 24, 2023 @08:16AM (#36846696)
>CP is disgusting and everything

Why do you think so? Maybe you just haven't seen a good CP before.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by marvin on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:44PM (#36838341)
Even written, where I live. In principle even the author only wrote it for themselves, and no one ever knows. That’s pretty close to thoughtcrime.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by haakon on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:29PM (#36838207)
Generated CSAM is equally illegal as "real" CSAM in many countries, such as Norway. Here, even fictional descriptions of such material in written form is illegal.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by anthk on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:59PM (#36838509)
Even Lolita from Nabokov? Because that book depicted that as joking about the reader and on male society in general, as there was no actual erotism on anything but the narrator's "mind"/protagonist.

Similar on how people got Starship Troopers wrong. Is not about cheering fascism, but to ridicule it.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by haakon on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:40PM (#36838942)
Lolita is covered by an exception for art. I doubt such a book could be written in Norway today, but you can't really ban historical literature.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by johnnyanmac on Sunday July 23, 2023 @07:21PM (#36841036)
>but you can't really ban historical literature.

I know what you mean. But at the same time society bans historical literature constantly.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by RajT88 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:09PM (#36838612)
> Similar on how people got Starship Troopers wrong. Is not about cheering fascism, but to ridicule it.

Well - the film also had a disconnect with the book on the topic of fascism. The book was more on the pro-fascism side.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by treis on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:16PM (#36839377)
I still can't decide if it was just a bad movie or satire by someone that didn't quite get how satire works.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by Eisenstein on Sunday July 23, 2023 @05:30PM (#36840047)
It was satire by someone who absolutely understands how satire works. Starship Troopers, the film, is brilliant.

The same director did Robocop, and if you don't get the genius satire of that, then I can't help you.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by RajT88 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @05:54PM (#36840252)
In fairness, those films can be enjoyed both superficially and as satire.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by thomastjeffery on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:00PM (#36840317)
The film intentionally satirized the book.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by glogla on Monday July 24, 2023 @04:40AM (#36844683)
The film is a satire of fascists propaganda, and as good satire often it, it is also an good example of fascist propaganda, just like Snow Crash is satire of Cyberpunk while being a good Cyberpunk.

The book isn't exactly fascist though. Verhoeven said he didn't read the book and does not plan to, so he is satirising somewhat superficially.

Heinlein did explore a lot of various political systems in his books, and I think Starship Troopers is focusing most on voter engagement - how people who vote should know something about what they vote on, and that is why only those who served (which includes military but also other "national service" like being a worker colonising planets or postman or whatever) get vote.

Is that fascist? I don't think so. Is it a good political system? I don't think so either but it is a good enough idea for a book.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by cooldrcool3 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:43PM (#36838983)
Have you actually read Starship Troopers? It isn’t exactly ridiculing facism.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by jowea on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:19PM (#36840486)
I believe he is referring to the more widely known movie.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by brightlancer on Sunday July 23, 2023 @05:35PM (#36840097)
In both the book and the film Starship Troopers:

* persons can choose whether or not to do government service

* Rico's parents are quite rich even though neither are citizens

* the Moral Philosophy class tries to _discourage_ individuals from government service

* the instructor for Moral Philosophy explicitly tries to get the students to think for themselves

In the book but not the film:

* the only benefit of government service is the right to vote

* only veterans (i.e. no active service members) can vote

All of these (and more) are contrary to fascism. The book is not fascist. Verhoeven never read the book and didn't satirize fascism -- he satirized a _caricature_ of fascism.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by jowea on Sunday July 23, 2023 @07:08PM (#36840906)
Fascism is ill defined so people call the Terran Federation fascist due to being jingoistic and undemocratic, despite it being quite different from historical fascism as you say.

Also minor detail but in the book there's a few jobs that are reserved for veterans, like IIRC the police.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by ChainOfFools on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:54PM (#36839732)
this is possibly because generated CSAM may look like no real human child nor resemble any human child in particular today. give it 5 years and physical distinction from real children and even a specific child is likely to happen. so a photo perfect likeness of your kid ends up in some disgusting video and the creators get off the hook because it's 'not real' by say a narrow color gradiation or kinematic similarity standard undetectable to human eyes? no thanks.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by dotnet00 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @05:39PM (#36840134)
That isn't really much of an issue, some places count material intended to resemble a real child or derived from CSAM (etc a drawing referenced from real CSAM) as still being illegal. That would handily cover the situation you've mentioned.

In those cases, for fictional CSAM to be legal, it has to be completely fictional such that any resemblances can be shown to be completely coincidence.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by tenpies on Sunday July 23, 2023 @01:57PM (#36837874)
> generative AI can help solve cp

On a side note, there was a very good film about this last year called The Artifice Girl.

Think indie, very theatrical with only three settings and three very clear acts, but thought-provoking and with some unstated implications. I would recommend watching it without checking IMDB or any review site first.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by EamonnMR on Sunday July 23, 2023 @08:29PM (#36841541)
Yeah Cyberpunk wasn't so much a dream as a dystopian reaction to modern life; instead of exploring space, people do crimes to scrape by. I certainly wouldn't want to live in Snow Crash or Neuromancer...
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by mindslight on Sunday July 23, 2023 @01:47PM (#36837769)
Tangential to your much larger lament - OpenStreetMap, and specifically OSMAnd which is libre and free on F-droid, works great for offline maps that are downloaded ahead of time. (I think the version on Google Play limits the number of regions you can download unless you make a small donation).
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by ragequitta on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:29PM (#36838205)
Google maps offers this functionality. I've had my local map and maps of any place I regularly go to downloaded for many years.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by grepfru_it on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:18PM (#36839392)
It will eventually cease to exist.

I went to Grenada in 2014 and used offline maps to drive around the island. In 2015 the tablet suffered an accident and I powered it off to deal with it later. 5 years later I power it back on without internet connectivity. Turns out the maps expired. So much for many years

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by ragequitta on Monday July 24, 2023 @12:41PM (#36850751)
While I agree this is potentially an issue, most people with most devices won't be away from the internet for years. If you want it to be apocalypse proof for when the internet goes down you should probably get a paper map.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by grepfru_it on Monday July 24, 2023 @04:18PM (#36853648)
That is the antithesis of many years and why google maps is not sufficient. You know what’s still around many years later? My paper printouts from Mapquest
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by nullc on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:36PM (#36839558)
Google times out the downloaded maps without warning, so you go to use them and find out it won't let you use them.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by ragequitta on Monday July 24, 2023 @12:42PM (#36850770)
You definitely get a warning. But also there's an auto-update feature so you can set it an forget it so long as your device connects to the internet once every x months.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by int_19h on Monday July 24, 2023 @01:29AM (#36843437)
The problem with Google Maps is that they only let you download rectangular chunks of the map one by one (that aren't large enough to e.g. just download a whole state), and then those chunks must be kept regularly updated or they eventually "expire" without you having any say in the matter.

Google Maps also doesn't support offline contour lines / hillshading (what Google calls "terrain"), which is a big deal for hiking and other outdoor activities. Whereas with OsmAnd, you can literally have e.g. the entire North America in your pocket, with contour lines, offline navigation, and offline Wikipedia articles for every POI.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by mindslight on Monday July 24, 2023 @01:20PM (#36851318)
Pointing out more options for people to evaluate is great and all. But at least for me, "offline maps" implies not needing the permission of a surveillance company to use it, and without phoning home to that company when the app regains connectivity. And I'd say that's an appropriate definition in the context of the top level comment about privacy.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by tetris11 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @01:56PM (#36837868)
Organic Maps on F-Droid, is a literal godsend in offline raster maps. I used OSMand a lot on my old phone, buy since I downgraded it just could not load the vectors fast enough
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by aembleton on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:40PM (#36838295)
Give mapy.cz in the play store a try. Seems to be much snappier than organic maps. Uses osm data
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by xigoi on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:27PM (#36839475)
But it's proprietary, and built by a company which loves tracking.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by jmkni on Sunday July 23, 2023 @01:52PM (#36837817)
> he spent a lot of time downloading maps and trying to make a way to view them locally

Isn't that, like, a map? lol we've had maps long before the internet

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by delecti on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:08PM (#36837983)
One of the big benefits of digital maps over paper ones is "where am I on the map", and GPS alone doesn't send any data back.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by vel0city on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:16PM (#36838074)
Even then there were lots of apps out there which provided maps offline before Google maps was even an idea.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Streets_%26_Trips

https://winworldpc.com/product/softkey-key-master-maps/10

And then that's also completely ignoring the hundreds of portable GPS devices sold before Google Maps was a thing which had offline road databases.

I can navigate anonymously without cell signal easily. My car has a GPS in the dashboard which, at least for the maps and routing, doesn't go online at all.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by patrakov on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:14PM (#36838658)
> I can navigate anonymously without cell signal easily. My car has a GPS in the dashboard which, at least for the maps and routing, doesn't go online at all.

I agree that this is indeed possible. The problem is with the propaganda that says that you should not agree to such a low standard of only being able to see the map and route your trip based on road connectivity and nothing else. Modern route planning takes into account inherently real-time information such as accidents and other roadblocks, which is only available online.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by nobody9999 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @05:31PM (#36840056)
>I agree that this is indeed possible. The problem is with the propaganda that says that you should not agree to such a low standard of only being able to see the map and route your trip based on road connectivity and nothing else. Modern route planning takes into account inherently real-time information such as accidents and other roadblocks, which is only available online.

I'd note that while real time traffic updates are nice, they are just a convenience, not a necessity.

In fact, GPS (unless you're in a war zone and need to direct munitions or out in the middle of nowhere) is also a convenience and not a necessity. What's that? It is a necessity? Tell that to Ferdinand Magellan -- hell he didn't even have a paper map.

That's not to say GPS/online traffic updates and the like aren't useful. They absolutely are. But they aren't necessary and at least for me, if the choice is to use such tools and be tracked or use another method that doesn't track me, I'll choose the latter every. single. time.

Not because I have anything to hide, but because my business is my business and no one else's.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by tguvot on Sunday July 23, 2023 @07:06PM (#36840891)
> Modern route planning takes into account inherently real-time information such as accidents and other roadblocks, which is only available online.

in mid 2000s very offline igo could pull traffic information via RDS-TMC and adjust route according to it. navigation systems in modern cars can use traffic information from satellite via sirius-xm

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by vel0city on Sunday July 23, 2023 @09:30PM (#36841979)
Yeah, I'm disappointed more cars/GPS units don't have this functionality. It's really not even that complicated of a data stream and it's already right there in most US metro areas waiting to be used.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by tguvot on Sunday July 23, 2023 @11:35PM (#36842835)
i think the only time recently that i saw TMC used, it's in my wife's mini countryman. but it worked only in last few months of leasing after they updated firmware or maybe plugged some cable during service
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by andybak on Sunday July 23, 2023 @01:58PM (#36837881)
Paper gets heavy real quick and personal microfiche readers never caught on.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by freehorse on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:26PM (#36838171)
At least paper does not run out of battery, though
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by itronitron on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:18PM (#36838101)
I imagine it's really hard to drive a car and use a microfiche reader at the same time.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by kevin_thibedeau on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:11PM (#36838634)
The Electro Gyrocator essentially worked that way. You placed transparencies over the CRT for the map section you were currently in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro_Gyrocator

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-features/ph-origins-navi...

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by zo1 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:22PM (#36839429)
Have you tried to buy a paper map lately? It's next to impossible, at least here where I am atm.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by toby- on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:54PM (#36839730)
Where are you that it's "next to impossible"? That really surprises me.

I'm in the UK, and you can walk into any Post Office, WHSmith, bookshop, most newsagents, etc., and pick up maps of the local area or country, usually Ordnance Survey[0] maps.

And (at least when I was in secondary school, about a decade ago) map reading was still taught as a valuable skill, using OS maps.

[0]: https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by kedean on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:28PM (#36838188)
Just regarding your overall concern around maps and cellular service, Google Maps lets you download maps within very custom sized tiles for offline use. I'm partial to using them when hiking, so I can orient myself in areas where the actual trail markers become questionable.

Routing doesn't really work offline, but that's a different/harder problem.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by daemontus on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:58PM (#36838502)
No disrespect, I use offline Google maps almost daily, but there are far far better offline hiking apps out there.

Google will probably work ok for the most popular trails, and I guess you can use it as a supercharged compass. But at least in Europe, if you actually plan a route in any mountains based on Google, you're in for an adventure :)

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by Zpalmtree on Monday July 24, 2023 @02:08AM (#36843657)
What apps would you recommend?
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by daemontus on Monday July 24, 2023 @04:43PM (#36853938)
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cz.seznam.mapy

Bit focused on eastern Europe, but has a hiking mode with very good coverage of the official routes (not only in eastern Europe ;)). And everything is free, including offline maps. Terrific value for casual trips.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bergfex.to...

This one is not free (there is a free tier though) but seems to have more details in some areas, so the pro tier may be worth it if you hike a lot.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by charlieyu1 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:46PM (#36838366)
Do jurisdictions really care about child porn before internet? I always feel like it is just a convenient excuse for them to get away with their bullshit, for a largely non-existent problem.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by Analemma_ on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:58PM (#36838500)
They did, but it only existed on small scales then. The Internet drove the cost of production and distribution down to basically zero, so, as classical economics predicts, the amount of production exploded.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by brightlancer on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:52PM (#36839712)
> The Internet drove the cost of production and distribution down to basically zero, so, as classical economics predicts, the amount of production exploded.

No, economics predicts that _use_ will explode if the cost is zero, but that's not a comment on production.

Pocket cameras have reduced the cost to record sexual abuse, but that's dwarfed by the ability to reproduce/ distribute those copies.

I don't think that means sexual abuse is more common. On every other metric we have, it appears sexual abuse is _less_ common.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by pessimizer on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:36PM (#36839566)
No, they didn't. They still don't. Not having a victim on the other side of the case (possession of child porn, not production of child porn) gives judges an easy excuse (and no opposition) to sympathizing with the accused and suspending the sentence.

Child porn is just leverage to pry. We used to care as much about sending information about birth control through the mail. And with the modern movement to sexualize children as soon as possible, they might have to use another excuse in 20 years. "Terrorism" will always work, because it doesn't mean anything.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by BLKNSLVR on Sunday July 23, 2023 @05:41PM (#36840149)
I believe this is the case, as unfortunate as it is.

The loudness of their voices in "protecting the children" when politicians are introducing new communications surveillance measures, with no mention of local, boots-on-the-ground, child protection services funding increases, just screams to me that they care about surveillance a lot and about protecting children not at all.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by didntcheck on Monday July 24, 2023 @09:57AM (#36848083)
In that way the government represents the people. For every 9 people you meet screeching about how much they want to hunt a pedo and torture them, there's 1 person talking about actually helping children experiencing abuse (which is not always sexual, to the former group's disappointment)
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by erik_seaberg on Sunday July 23, 2023 @11:41PM (#36842875)
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by noAnswer on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:48PM (#36838383)
> Ultimately what drove me away was the literal flood of cp that was always right next to anything to do with tor, whonix, or anonymity in general.

As a teen around 2003 I hosted a freenet-node (freenetproject.org). It generated 1TByte/month which I believe was a lot for the time. I shot it down and never came back, because the only things that ever loaded was cp and Chechnya rape and torture videos. Its not a network for "dissidents"... I gave up on humanity.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by OfSanguineFire on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:04PM (#36838569)
How do you know what was uploaded, let alone that those were the only things uploaded? If I remember Freenet’s model correctly, files were distributed across the network as encrypted fragments and no one knew what exactly was being shared on his own node.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by noAnswer on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:30PM (#36838836)
(I was a curious teenager and followed links I shouldn't have.) It had a ~1998 web feel. So you would mostly discover things by surfing around. Normal content would take ages to load or didn't load at all. (Bad distribution, because no-one had interest in it.) While the other stuff would load faster than AmpLand. (Very good distribution, because lots of demand.)

Plus: There was a eDonkey like file sharing program that worked on top of freenet. (As well as a Usenet clone and a "Instant" Messenger.) You could share files without uploading them first. Like Gnutella it had passive search. (It shows you the files and search terms of other users going through your system.) So you could see what the demand was for. Edit: The demand was not for Hollywod movies.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by Sterm on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:56PM (#36839754)
There is no such thing as running a relay in freenet. Every user is the same as every other. The size and traffic of your node is literally a setting on the gui. All traffic and data are encrypted so you have no idea what's living on your node and what's coming in and out. That's the whole point of freenet.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by worrycue on Sunday July 23, 2023 @07:05PM (#36840885)
I don’t think he is claiming he ran a relay and could see the traffic passing through it. Just that he had a good idea what moved about on the network from following random links as he explored it - popular stuff would load fast, non-popular would be slow. He found out what was popular.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by orangepurple on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:56PM (#36839148)
Run a DC++ client connected to some major hubs and snoop on the queries that people search for and you will lose all hope for humanity.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by OfSanguineFire on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:00PM (#36839188)
People definitely search for awful stuff, but that doesn’t mean that such stuff is the only thing shared on DC++. It is films and music that draws so many people to DC++.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by geraldwhen on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:45PM (#36840749)
20 years ago, DC++ was the best place to get full anime seasons with fan subs. Nowadays, nearly everything is on Hulu, or crunchyroll, or illegitimate streaming sites.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by OfSanguineFire on Sunday July 23, 2023 @07:28PM (#36841101)
DC++ is still useful if you want full Blu-ray images of films. Most other public pirate channels are sharing only downsampled or remuxed films.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by MayeulC on Sunday July 23, 2023 @05:05PM (#36839838)
I'm just wondering if some of this could be automated scans (possibly by law enforcement?)
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by rootusrootus on Monday July 24, 2023 @12:55AM (#36843244)
Even without the CP. Three decades ago, on the campus network when I was studying for my undergraduate degree, I fired up etherman (or something like it, it's been a loooong time). It helpfully parsed out the HTTP URLs for me, and I clicked on a few out of curiousity.

I turned that sniffer off soon after, and never ever looked again. Even the (likely) legal things people were looking for were hard to unsee.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by sanderjd on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:56PM (#36838483)
Humanity is mostly good, it just isn't universally good. Providing services that rely on "universally good" to avoid being dominated by the tiny but horrible minority is always a disaster.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by ThrowAway1922A on Monday July 24, 2023 @09:09PM (#36856493)
> Humanity is mostly good

I don't believe there is any evidence to back this up whatsoever. People are compelled to be "good" by society and laws, nothing more. Humanity is fundamentally bad, but reined in by a handful of powerful people and organizations.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by sanderjd on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @07:48AM (#36860922)
Society is an important part of humanity. And if humans were "fundamentally bad", it would be unlikely, statistically, for there to be a handful of powerful people compelled to rein in those bad impulses, rather than amplify them.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by jowea on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:11PM (#36840397)
It's the same thing with the old reddit alternatives. Very few people are actually going to bother purely for the sake of principles, so the alternatives end up flooded with the ones that are forced to alternatives for good reasons.

If the mainstream Internet banned "dissidents" I believe such things would have more uptake by other types of users.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by Tijdreiziger on Sunday July 23, 2023 @09:36PM (#36842029)
The threadiverse (Lemmy/Kbin), which recently became popular due to the Reddit API protests, is pretty healthy.

Of course, there are some servers catering to 'dissidents' (e.g. Lemmygrad, Exploding Heads), but it's easy enough to avoid those communities.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by sanderjd on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:51PM (#36838430)
> It’s a damn shame how the original cyberpunk dream played out.

Isn't it more, "This is why the original cyberpunk dream was always a naive and bad idea"?

Like, it appealed to me too when I was young, but then I learned more about humans and our history and ...

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by AnonymousPlanet on Sunday July 23, 2023 @05:23PM (#36839974)
Since when was cyberpunk a dream to be pursued? It's the opposite of a naive dream. It's a nightmare full of high tech and people living on scraps, constantly trying to keep up with the tech fallout from big corporations. One of the most iconic places in cyberpunk was literally described as being "like a deranged experiment in social Darwinism, designed by a bored researcher who kept the thumb permantently on the fast-forward button."

How is this appealing? It's a warning, not a cosy idea to aspire to!

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by antod on Sunday July 23, 2023 @05:38PM (#36840131)
I think this is the difference between cyberpunk as a fiction genre and the views of the people calling themselves cyberpunks back in the day (or reading the Wired articles about them).
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by johnnyanmac on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:13PM (#36840411)
really depends on your literature. Star Trek's interpretation of the future is very different from Dune's. Much of cyberpunk tends to be cynical but there are some more utopic interpretations out there as well.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by rainonmoon on Sunday July 23, 2023 @07:34PM (#36841159)
Neither Star Trek nor Dune are cyberpunk.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by johnnyanmac on Sunday July 23, 2023 @07:38PM (#36841188)
Didn't mean to imply there were. Just general differences in tone in Sci-fi in general.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by the_af on Sunday July 23, 2023 @09:17PM (#36841884)
What is a utopian view of cyberpunk fiction? I don't know any.

The "punk" in the genre is the rebellion against or rejection of a corrupt and oppressive system that chews people up and spits them out as either defeated or criminals. If you're reading something else, it's not cyberpunk by definition.

Remember, it's hi-tech and low lives.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by rodgerd on Monday July 24, 2023 @01:15AM (#36843365)
> What is a utopian view of cyberpunk fiction?

Solarpunk, I would guess. "The street finds uses for things" doesn't end up being hardscrabble against dystopia.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by hickelpickle on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:46PM (#36840766)
I think the phrase people are looking for is cypherpunk, idk why the whole thread is referencing cyberpunk which has little to do with the subject matter and ideals being discussed, which are related to the cypherpunk movement.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by sanderjd on Sunday July 23, 2023 @07:38PM (#36841190)
Yep you're right.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by sillysaurusx on Sunday July 23, 2023 @07:28PM (#36841109)
My mistake. Thanks!
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by worrycue on Sunday July 23, 2023 @09:19PM (#36841905)
I think what he meant by the “cyberpunk dream” is actually the “solution” to the cyberpunk dystopia - i.e. “the net” was supposed to be a refuge from corporate/government monitoring and control.

In the early days of the internet it kind of was. Corporations haven’t waken up to the full commercial potential of the internet. Governments/law enforcement hasn’t quite figured out how this new at-the-time Internet thing worked - “series of tubes” or something.

Then as he noted, there is a significant downside to such a refuge.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by red-iron-pine on Monday July 24, 2023 @02:53PM (#36852682)
to paraphrase one of the rpg.net mods:

transhumanism is how technology will reshape what we think it is to be human, how we view life, death, love, family, success, fear, etc. Cyberpunk is how it won't.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by Euphorbium on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:12PM (#36838640)
But google maps provide offline maps, and have done it for years. You just have to save them in advance.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by throwaway914 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:16PM (#36838681)
There are many, many pedophiles out there. I'm also convinced of a conspiracy theory that a lot of dark web traffic and hosts are created/operated by secret parts of the gov to de-legitimize the need for anonymity. I believe this because it would be too easy with the access to that material and no oversight. Just muddy the waters so nothing in there looks worth protecting.

</tinfoil-hat>

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by ip26 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:15PM (#36839363)
There are many, many…

It’s a little puzzling to me still why this is. Physical attraction to almost-adults isn’t some big mystery, but most cp is something else entirely.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by Eisenstein on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:47PM (#36839670)
I'm curious about how you make the distinction. Does it make sense to you that adult men would be attracted to each other? If so, how is this fundamentally different than any other non-procreative human-human attraction? It is not obviously evolutionarily beneficial for adults of the same sex to be attracted to each other, so why is this in particular a mystery?

I contend that human sexuality is not easy to compartmentalize and that it does not exist in any particular way as an obvious evolutionary benefit except for adult-adult-heterosexual.

Of course rapists (including child molesters) should be kept from offending and otherwise punished for offenses because of the harm that it causes, but nothing about any sexual orientations seems strange to me that it exists.

Of course I am not able to understand on an innate level since I don't feel the same way. I'm not sure anyone could really understand what it is like to be of a different orientation because it is so intertwined with the self that it is just incomprehensible. One can understand in the sense that one can acknowledge it, but I don't think one can understand in the sense that they actually 'get' it.

I'm interested in other people's perspectives on this thougjh.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by jrflowers on Sunday July 23, 2023 @05:52PM (#36840240)
I’m no expert here but I’m going to guess that equivocating gay people and pedophiles is not the best starting point to understanding pedophiles.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by Eisenstein on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:31PM (#36840608)
Do you agree that 'adult-adult-hetersexual' is the only orientation that has obvious evolutionary benefit? If so then every other orientation does not. There is no 'equivocation' there is only 'why would anything else exist?'. My contention is 'who knows?', but if you accept that one orientation without evolutionary benefit exists, then why would you be confused that another different one also exists? It is not 'homosexuals and pedophiles are the same'.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by jrflowers on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:39PM (#36840699)
I like this question because you explicitly ask me to agree with your premise that pedophiles and gay people are equivalent within your framing of this discussion and then follow it up with “my contention is something other than what I’ve clearly explained”
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by Eisenstein on Sunday July 23, 2023 @07:49PM (#36841290)
Ok. I am addressing a very specific question by a person above me. I am trying to illustrate that if non-normative sexualities exist in one instance, then why be surprised in multiple instances. Take that as you will.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by jrflowers on Sunday July 23, 2023 @07:55PM (#36841336)
I appreciate you clarifying that your reason for positing that pedophilia and homosexuality are equivalent is that you were responding to something that you saw online.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by ang_cire on Sunday July 23, 2023 @07:16PM (#36840980)
> Do you agree that 'adult-adult-hetersexual' is the only orientation that has obvious evolutionary benefit?

This shows a profound misunderstanding of evolution and natural selection on your part. "Evolutionary benefit" is impossible to divorce from circumstances. It doesn't exist as some right/wrong answer, or something you can divine through logic.

For instance, same-sex attraction could absolutely be advantageous to a species that is nearing the peak of sustainable population numbers. All species (who can fuck) wanna fuck, and will do so no matter their surrounding circumstances. The difference between one species keeping sustainable numbers, versus another species seeing runaway population numbers causing food source exhaustion and population collapse, could come down to lower procreation rates, in which circumstance strict heterosexuality may not be advantageous.

Point being, stop trying to use bad, dime-store "science" to justify your bad opinions about homosexuality.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by Eisenstein on Sunday July 23, 2023 @07:49PM (#36841286)
Ok. I am addressing a very specific question by a person above me. I am trying to illustrate that if non-normative sexualities exist in one instance, then why be surprised in multiple instances. Take that as you will.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by umanwizard on Sunday July 23, 2023 @07:53PM (#36841324)
A huge chunk of the GP’s post was disclaimers (“I think child molesters are despicable”, etc.) precisely to avoid their point being misunderstood in this way, which apparently didn’t work.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by pdntspa on Sunday July 23, 2023 @08:36PM (#36841585)
It's not equivocation, it's a categorization of heteronormative and not-heteronormative.

Personally I suspect the issue here is that incest is the only form of sexual activity that we have a natural proclivity against, probably because of evolutionary pressure (as in, hard-wired into our DNA) against fucking blood relatives. Because a consistently-inbred population will breed itself into oblivion. People who fuck kids can still successfully reproduce and society trundles on.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by marcus_holmes on Monday July 24, 2023 @12:04AM (#36843019)
I think your starting point is still kinda skewed, because "heteronormative" is a made-up thing by society rather than an actual thing someone can be.

There's a traditional view of sexuality that men are only sexually attracted to women, and vice versa, and that's normal and everything else is not normal (kinky). The more we learn about sex (and gender) the more we learn that there are very few completely "normal" people out there, and a lot of people who are a bit kinky in one respect or another. I think it's now accepted that the hetero-homo thing is a spectrum rather than a binary state, and the primary reason people of the same sex don't have sex with each other is societal pressure rather than biological attraction. e.g. women tend to experiment more with this because society has a more lenient view of "girl-on-girl" than male homosexual sex.

My personal opinion is that evolution "wants" everything to fuck everything as much as possible, just to see what happens. The best reproducers are the ones who did the most fucking, after all. But we're getting into Oglaf territory here.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by pdntspa on Monday July 24, 2023 @12:58AM (#36843252)
> I think your starting point is still kinda skewed, because "heteronormative" is a made-up thing by society rather than an actual thing someone can be.

It's a term rooted in the conditions that make sex a reproductive act and not just something that feels good

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by marcus_holmes on Monday July 24, 2023 @03:38AM (#36844257)
Which is getting back to the religious crap of "sex is only for reproduction, between a married couple". Yes sex can result in reproduction, but I think making that its primary purpose misses the point. We experience a desire to fuck, separate from our desire to reproduce. They're two different things that are only related in a tiny minority of circumstances. Classifying someone's sexuality by its possible reproductive outcome is like classifying their tongues by the ability to curl into a tube: kinda valid, but not that useful.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by pdntspa on Monday July 24, 2023 @11:51AM (#36849925)
No, it's not. You are reading into things. There is no elevating one modality above the other, they are related but different.

Why are you projecting your own biases into my statement? Call a spade a spade. What you take away beyond that is on you.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by marcus_holmes on Monday July 24, 2023 @10:28PM (#36857132)
> There is no elevating one modality above the other, they are related but different.

You grouped all sexual activity into two groups: "normal" and "not normal". I think if anyone is projecting bias, it's that.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by pdntspa on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @01:56AM (#36858492)
No, I used the word 'heteronormative', which has a specific, clinical meaning.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by johnnyanmac on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:27PM (#36840581)
>it does not exist in any particular way as an obvious evolutionary benefit except for adult-adult-heterosexual.

it's not unique to nature. You're in heat, you want to mate with anything that looks attractive. What's attractive will vary immensely based on societal and personal experience, for reasons we still cannot fully understand as the human mind is still a huge secret to unlock. It's not perfect in the same way that few parts of nature are perfectly optimized. Remants of old patterns or general heuristics on "what is good enough" will remain and they can persist for very long times.

The only unique-ish thing about humans is that we have no "mating period". We are continuously in heat compared to most of nature, so that urge remains around consistently. Virtually every form of society has evolved some sort of culture to control these urges (as well as ways to control sexual conflict, which is another topic entirely) in order to advance as a civilization otherwise it'd be non-stop mating

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by SpaghettiCthulu on Sunday July 23, 2023 @08:38PM (#36841601)
> What's attractive will vary immensely based on societal and personal experience, for reasons we still cannot fully understand as the human mind is still a huge secret to unlock. It's not perfect in the same way that few parts of nature are perfectly optimized. Remants of old patterns or general heuristics on "what is good enough" will remain and they can persist for very long times.

Is it generally accepted that someone may not be born either straight or gay?

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by johnnyanmac on Sunday July 23, 2023 @09:10PM (#36841833)
I honestly don't know and that's yet another can of worms to open.

I can somewhat sidestep that issue and say that societal factors can make you think you are exclusively heterosexual, even if we agreed that sexuality is an internal factor and you were infact born bi/homosexual. Similar to how you can force a left handed person to become right handed.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by incompatible on Sunday July 23, 2023 @09:48PM (#36842105)
I think that there's a fairly standard distinction, that doesn't require any consideration of psychological mechanisms. Homosexuality can be practised consensually and nobody else needs to care, because nobody is harmed. Paedophilia can't be practised consensually because children are below the age of consent, and can be harmed.

Hence, paedophilia is classified as a mental illness, but homosexuality no longer is (in most Western countries, at least, I believe).

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by Tade0 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @07:17PM (#36840994)
It's a chain of abuse. Most paedophiles were abused in childhood.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by pjscott on Sunday July 23, 2023 @09:26PM (#36841954)
Just about every personality trait with a name has a high degree of genetic heritability. We know this from e.g. studies of identical versus fraternal twins. And people abused as children tend to be closely related to their parents; we know this because we know where babies come from.

So, how much of the “chain of abuse” thing is just genetic confounding? I don’t know, which is vexing. As far as I can tell, very few of the chain-of-abuse theorists even think of genetics, even though it’s the elephant in the room, and many are hard-line blank slate believers. (I don’t have citations at the moment, but last time I looked at the relevant academic literature it was, broadly speaking, an absolute dumpster fire.)

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by megous on Monday July 24, 2023 @06:20AM (#36845485)
Pedophilia != child sexual abuse.

Just like being attracted to women doesn't mean you're a rapist.

You can be, though.

Also consumption of any kind of distrubing porn doesn't mean you actually want to do things you see in it in the real life. This is about the same principle like when people are watching action movies (which is an accepted kind of often very disturbing cinematography), most don't want to go around and shoot/stab people.

Some very tiny percentage will, of course.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by batch12 on Monday July 24, 2023 @07:46AM (#36846334)
> Also consumption of any kind of distrubing porn doesn't mean you actually want to do things you see in it in the real life.

No, but it does mean you support the abuse necessary to produce it.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by hakavlad on Monday July 24, 2023 @08:38AM (#36847028)
>it does mean you support the abuse necessary to produce it.

No. If I download old files through I2PSnark - this does not mean that CP will be produced in greater quantities.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by megous on Monday July 24, 2023 @11:48AM (#36849880)
Not all porn is produced by abusing someone. Not even all CP. So your statement can't be generally true.

Anyway, my point was that pedophilia being mostly caused by child abuse doesn't make much sense. Pedophilia is not child abuse by itself, and thus there's no cycle.

Cycle of abuse would just make you abuse someone in the similar way you were abused. (regardless of any attraction to the victim)

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by LexiMax on Sunday July 23, 2023 @09:14PM (#36841868)
> It’s a little puzzling to me still why this is.

Because there's a power imbalance that predators are all-too-eager to exploit.

Sometimes in the literal definition in terms of raw strength, but just as much in terms of social manipulation and life experience that can take advantage of their often more naive victims. There's also a layer of assumed authority and deference at play.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by nicoco on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:11PM (#36840400)
Doesn't seem that much tinfoil hat to me. The Snowden leaks taught us that a bit of tinfoil hatting is reasonable. Before we had access to so many cop video footage, the ideas that they were the bad guys and did stuff like actually being the guys who attack and break stuff during protests were considered crazy. Etc, etc.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by barrysteve on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:31PM (#36840615)
You literally don't need a tinfoil conspiracy for that idea.

IBM is moving to passwordless auth on their server access. Preferring biometrics. Their youtube channel tells you directly.

The "mainstream" culture has been pushing that idea for five years now, Philomena Cunk said we shouldn't follow the anonymous guy in 2018, golly gosh.

My iphone plainly face scans me and my shopping malls and sports stadiums do the same.

Frankly the last place left to BE anonymous is Tor and on soap-box websites like this where the admin can decipher my ID but you don't know who I am.

Obiwan has the realistic attitude. "The war's over. We lost."

It's impossible to completely eliminate secrets, but the liberty of the 1990s is deader than a dodo. Anonymity, the unknown citizen, staying off the map is basically reserved for martians now.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by anthk on Monday July 24, 2023 @05:34AM (#36845110)
Use nncp-go over sneakernet. Also, nntp can be user over i2pd just fine, lots of people using for the ethical opposite of CP; that's it, hugely ethical reasons, such as Ukrainian and Russian folks politely talking together and being fed up of the war.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by hakavlad on Monday July 24, 2023 @08:07AM (#36846568)
>There are many, many pedophiles

If a person watches the CP - this does not mean that he is a pedophile. If a person watches the CP - this does not mean that he is a child abuser.

Sharing CP != child abuse. Viewing CP != child abuse. Storing CP != child abuse.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by P_I_Staker on Monday July 24, 2023 @09:15AM (#36847476)
Gross. You’re abusing the child any time you watch it.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by hakavlad on Monday July 24, 2023 @10:24AM (#36848502)
I don't abuse kids whether or not I watch CP. Please provide evidence if you are making serious accusations.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by P_I_Staker on Monday July 24, 2023 @11:49AM (#36849899)
You here means anyone watching it, but interesting to see you get so defensive. The idea that you think "watching CP != abuse" is suspicious to begin with.

I wasn't, but it would be reasonable to accuse you of being a pedophile based on this.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by hakavlad on Monday July 24, 2023 @11:57AM (#36850021)
>accuse you of being a pedophile based on this

Please read the diagnostic criteria: https://icd.who.int/browse11/l-m/en#/http%3a%2f%2fid.who.int... -- there is no mention of CP.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by hakavlad on Monday July 24, 2023 @11:59AM (#36850064)
JFYI: Pedophile != Child abuser.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by P_I_Staker on Monday July 24, 2023 @12:23PM (#36850448)
If they have pictures on their PCs they are. It's weird that you're arguing with this.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by hakavlad on Monday July 24, 2023 @12:31PM (#36850585)
>If they have pictures on their PCs they are.

If I have porn with men on my computer, it does not mean that I am gay or have raped men. Your reasoning is absurd.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by P_I_Staker on Monday July 24, 2023 @03:43PM (#36853240)
Uh... it probably means your pretty gay, dude. Which is great, it's who you are!

... so what are you in the other scenario?

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by kuhewa on Monday July 24, 2023 @09:15AM (#36847481)
What an.. interesting set of clarifications you felt the need to attempt
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by hakavlad on Monday July 24, 2023 @10:22AM (#36848450)
I wrote these explanations because many people do not even see the difference between the things mentioned above, although there is definitely a difference. Not noticing the difference leads people to false conclusions.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by throwaway914 on Monday July 24, 2023 @04:24PM (#36853709)
Kindly suggesting you talk to someone.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by jquery on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @02:35AM (#36858745)
* * *
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by akira2501 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:18PM (#36838701)
> Instead we get one where you can’t even be anonymous without rubbing elbows with child predators.

Says the person posting under the name "sillysaurusx."

> Whonix community who wanted to nix google maps entirely; he spent a lot of time downloading maps and trying to make a way to view them locally, which I think is going to be prescient one day. It already is in many parts of the world — you don’t have cell service

Here's an idea, maybe he should print those maps out, bind them together into a larger map, and then find a really complicated way to fold them up so he can keep them handy when needed.

> In some sense cp is the ultimate test of anonymity, since you’ll be thrown in prison pretty much instantly if caught.

And yet.. it is still produced in the physical world where none of these constraints actually exist. It's only promulgated and marketed through anonymous means.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by asveikau on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:13PM (#36839330)
>> [...] you can’t even be anonymous [...]

> Says the person posting under the name "sillysaurusx."

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. I recognize that username as someone who has been posting here for a long time. Not to encourage doxxing or making his identity the focus, but he has lots of contact details on his user profile. Tons of people are identifiable on here, even if the usernames are whimsical.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by wishfish on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:27PM (#36838796)
It's kinda amazing / disgusting that cp has been around since the early days. I remember finding alt.binaries.erotica.young (or some name like that; it's been a while) on my first or second go-around with Usenet. Was on my university's server. Not that my university was a home to pedophiles. I imagine it was on almost everyone's news servers unless an admin specifically blocked it or its parent alt.binaries.erotica.* hierarchies. I know a few servers did. Or even blocked all of alt.*

This was 1991 or early 1992. Kinda shocked me that a tax dollar supported server would have cp. I probably should have reported it to the Uni's sysadmins, but I was young & clueless.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by yankput on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:53PM (#36839115)
It was bullshit from the start
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by failuser on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:59PM (#36839169)
Cyberpunk was not about a dream. It was more of a warning to all those people who thought that technology will bring utopia. “High tech, low life” is the guiding principle of cyberpunk — technology will not solve societal problems all the cool tech brings issues that were not foreseen. With corrupt government and corporations not going anywhere just because the computations and communications got faster.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by DenisM on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:14PM (#36839348)
>back then it wasn’t clear that we’d ever be able to have maps at our fingertips regardless of internet access. This was back in the era of that poor CNET reporter that got lost with his family in the mountains precisely because of no maps

That was 2007. I had maps of the entire US loaded on my pocket pc circa 2005.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by brightlancer on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:33PM (#36839529)
> I had maps of the entire US loaded on my pocket pc circa 2005.

How much did that cost? How many folks had it? When did it stop getting updates?

Most folks (likely including GP) didn't have easy access to offline electronic maps in their pocket in 2007 and didn't know anyone who had offline electronic maps in their pocket.

Does that make them stupid?

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by DenisM on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:42PM (#36839622)
> How much did that cost?

$100 for the maps, available to anyone with a pocket pc and access to Google.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by sgath92 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:48PM (#36839675)
2008 I had a totally offline map of all of North America in my car's aftermarket radio (7" touch screen, AM/FM, DVD player, GPS, analog TV, SD slot, all running a version of WindowsCE that was already outdatted). System cost me about $400. Bought it so I could do backroads road trips/exploring by car, as it didn't need (or even have) a way to connect to the 'net to do it. I can still get updated maps for it, but I don't bother.

Handheld gps's with offline maps go back even further. I was using them from '03 to '08. Garmin made a bunch of ones that were no bigger than a early-gen blackberry. Back then it was relatively easy to get pirated updated maps for them.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by tguvot on Sunday July 23, 2023 @05:35PM (#36840098)
i traveled across europe in car at same time frame with pocket pc (asus mypal) and igo maps loaded on it (still have it in my drawer). those days you can get igo offline maps on android. also sygic.

it was always strange that google maps was accepted as some kind of magic while turn by turn navigation with voice directions was available from mid 2000s

those days i always have sygic installed on my phone. came handy when google maps decided to freak out while i was driving through death valley to gas station.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by tomcam on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:01PM (#36840322)
> turn by turn navigation with voice directions was available from mid 2000s

Did those turn by turn systems allow you to just drag the map onscreen anywhere to change location to anyplace on earth? To drop pins and send links to anyone in an email? To be updated instantly and for free when the data was refreshed?

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by tguvot on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:23PM (#36840529)
>Did those turn by turn systems allow you to just drag the map onscreen anywhere to change location to anyplace on earth?

as long as you had maps installed for this area - yes

>To drop pins and send links to anyone in an email? yea. multi-point navigation with ability to search along the route/in the area/specific city/etc. all without breaking route. you could also save route iirc. i had 2 weeks road trip pre-planned.

there was some ability to share route/coordinates. don't remember details

> To be updated instantly and for free when the data was refreshed? back than maps weren't updated that frequently. in general.

on the other side, it gave you ability to go anywhere without having a data connection. google offline maps are still very limited. igo was showing on screen next two maneuvers back than. google still didn't figure it out. or ability to show real 3D landscape and 3D landmarks/buildings. or ability to mark street as blocked so navigation will route around. getting traffic information from radio in case there is no internet.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by pessimizer on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:26PM (#36839466)
> Instead we get one where you can’t even be anonymous without rubbing elbows with child predators.

There have been secretive child predators ever since statutory rape was invented. The reason that you didn't have to "rub elbows" with them is because our governments hadn't begun systematically closing off all avenues for anonymity other than the one that they built and maintain for their own spying. If there's only one way to be anonymous, you get to "rub elbows" with everyone who needs to be anonymous for any reason.

It has nothing to do with child porn or crypto. Neither were responsible for the size of the distributed files kept on each of us to grow in orders of magnitude.

Speaking of "maps at our fingertips," good luck finding one that doesn't result in a record of the lookup and any GPS data submitted with it being inserted into a half-dozen databases, all freely accessible by the government, or by anybody buying in bulk.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by colanderman on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:40PM (#36839602)
> good luck finding one that doesn't result in a record of the lookup and any GPS data submitted with it being inserted into a half-dozen databases

My handheld non-networked GPS unit with map tiles downloaded in bulk from OpenStreetMaps meets this criteria. Not very obscure.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by nobody9999 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @05:03PM (#36839821)
>Speaking of "maps at our fingertips," good luck finding one that doesn't result in a record of the lookup and any GPS data submitted with it being inserted into a half-dozen databases, all freely accessible by the government, or by anybody buying in bulk.

Et voila! Maps at your fingertips[0] with no logging/tracking. It's amazing what those ancient (ca. 1995) humans could do. Perhaps they had help from aliens -- as we couldn't possibly do any of that stuff by ourselves. /s

[0] https://wwp.randmcnally.com/product/rand-mcnally-road-atlas

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by johnnyanmac on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:16PM (#36840445)
>There have been secretive child predators ever since statutory rape was invented.

Sure, emphasis on secretive. I'd hope that 'secretive' on the internet would mean more secretive than mistyping a query on a popular site's search engine. Or simply wandering into a linked, public website. But alas.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by dragonwriter on Sunday July 23, 2023 @05:30PM (#36840040)
> back then it wasn’t clear that we’d ever be able to have maps at our fingertips regardless of internet access.

Offline map databases were commom then; it wasn't uncommon for car navigation systems to come with them (expensive to update, though), as well as handheld devices

In fact, while they were not common before the 2000s, first-party navigation systems with offline digital maps for cars have been around at least since the 1980s, as have other forms of consumer offline digital maps. Online maps are newer than offline.

> This was back in the era of that poor CNET reporter that got lost with his family in the mountains precisely because of no maps

The last of many critical errors before the car got stuck might have been avoided by using a map, but they had and used a paper map shortly before, when choosing the alternate route that was, in fact, closed; it wasn't a problem caused by maps not being available (and there is a reason keeping paper road maps, especially of unfamiliar areas, when driving in them was a widespread practice until digital maps with automatic offline downloads tied to GPS became ubiquitous.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by johnnyanmac on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:07PM (#36840372)
>We could’ve had a world where companies couldn’t do anything about people using their ideas

doesn't sound like the best idea depending on what industry we are talking about. medicine, yes. Art, no (we're kinda going through that right now actually).

>In some sense cp is the ultimate test of anonymity, since you’ll be thrown in prison pretty much instantly if caught. So perhaps it’s no surprise that it’s the most common and pervasive result of anonymity, but it sure is a shame.

This quote constantly rings in my head about topics like this:

>The moral of the story is: if you’re against witch-hunts, and you promise to found your own little utopian community where witch-hunts will never happen, your new society will end up consisting of approximately three principled civil libertarians and seven zillion witches. It will be a terrible place to live even if witch-hunts are genuinely wrong.

It's the real downside of apathy when you see complaints about those big sites out there and how they screw up. You advertising a new site means the most interested are going to mostly include the worst actors, who eventually put off the best actors. Or at least disproportionately include them.

As a simple example: say Twitter has 10 million users and 1000 nazis (utopic, I know). Now your new no BS alternative attracts 0.1% of users but 10% Nazis. Still far from a majority. But by the way these forums work, your site will be 1% nazis, and those nazis will be some of your loudest actors if left unchecked. 100x more concentrated and it will feel some 1000x more nazi.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by brutusborn on Sunday July 23, 2023 @07:02PM (#36840865)
I’m fascinated by the Nazi question (what to do with them).

I think we should allow heterodox beliefs in public forums since at least this reduces the effect of echo chambers. The other alternative is to ban certain ideas from the mainstream, but I think this leads to groups like Nazis just moving to dedicated sites where their ideas are reinforced.

Like I’d rather see a Nazi subreddit where those ideas are likely to see more challenges, than some random Nazi site where bad ideas metasticize in the shadows. Maybe the spooks prefer it this way since different sites makes it easier to categorise people.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by ipsi on Sunday July 23, 2023 @07:41PM (#36841213)
Why would Nazis (or flat-earthers or QAnon or any other group likely to receive _substantial_ challenges to their world-view) stay somewhere where they'd be challenged, though? On a Reddit-like platform they'd downvote and/or ban to ensure it's almost entirely an echo-chamber, like every other part of Reddit.

If they somehow weren't able to control that, then I suspect they'd move to another platform organically, because why would they put up with a constant flow of opposing viewpoints that these groups believe, with absolute certainty, to be wrong?

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by evandale on Sunday July 23, 2023 @07:58PM (#36841351)
Have you read what Nazis write on the internet?

They would stay there because there's a huge userbase to convert and they probably enjoy being challenged and justifying their horrible views because they want lurkers to read it.

If you ever meet an actual Nazi you should ask them if they want to discuss Jews with you. I'm willing to bet they won't shy away from accepting the invitation even if you were offering it because you wanted to challenge their views.

It takes a very special kind of person to openly be a Nazi and they don't think like your typical Joe.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by barrysteve on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:23PM (#36840527)
Free information is worth what you paud for it.

Authority figures and scientists don't share the expensive info.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by belorn on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:42PM (#36840724)
> you can’t even be anonymous without rubbing elbows with child predators.

Statistically there is quite a large number of criminals in my city, and since I visit shops and other parts of the city, I am bound to unknowingly to me been rubbing elbows with those criminals. We are all anonymous to each other, and what can I really know about the person in front of me in the store. Go past a few hundred people and someone will be a person I would not associate myself with, and yet here I am living in the same city as them using the same infrastructure, and in some way enabling the activity by contributing taxes.

Not to say I don't understand the emotional reaction people have. I have relatives in the countryside that refuse to visit the city because of all the criminals that they hear about. It is also fairly common to hear people moving out of the city to the calmer suburbs in order to get out of all the shootings and crime. I also do know first hand that if you go and look for it, finding drug dealers and shady activity is not exactly a big secret. Go to specific streets or part of the city and it's operated in plain sight.

I've always seen the original cyberpunk dream as being analogous to a city, with all its benefits and drawbacks.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by 2OEH8eoCRo0 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @10:36PM (#36842490)
It would be more analogous to having all the pedos in the city use one coffee shop and everyone knows that pedos use that coffee shop and you decide to go there because you prefer their coffee.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by belorn on Monday July 24, 2023 @03:05AM (#36844031)
It seems a great overestimate to think that 19 out of 20 people who use tor do so to download CP. I am pretty sure that will be false, and more likely something like one in a few hundred.

One in a few hundred is the city. 19 out of 20 is the coffee shop.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by ineedasername on Sunday July 23, 2023 @09:59PM (#36842199)
>downloading maps and trying to make a way to view them locally

Before smartphones this was common. Standalone gps units had maps locally stored. Some of the ones mounted in car dashboards stored them on an internal DVD. I used to have to drive a lot for work long before they were commonly built in to cars and I had an aftermarket one mounted on my dashboard, a little 2” monochrome display. Storage was tight, and I’d have to hook it up to my computer to swap out map sets if I was traveling further than usual.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by Arn_Thor on Sunday July 23, 2023 @11:40PM (#36842871)
I haven't run across any Cyberpunk fiction that didn't feature exploitation of other people with the aid of technology. That depressing aspect of it is sort of backed in. If it's utopian, it's not cyberpunk, almost by definition.