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Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by EGreg on Sunday July 23, 2023 @01:43PM (#36837716)
Maybe open source generative AI can help solve cp. Cater to all these pedophile fetishes, and no need to exploit children? Remember how we phased out ivory for piano keys, and other poaching?

With diamonds, there is still a push to source “the real thing” kept alive by De Beers, and other cartels like that. But for a lot of poaching, we found replacements. I think that’s how plastic got started too btw!

Also PETA has approved fake lab-grown meat, perhaps it can reduce demand for torturing so many animals in factory farms.

PS: Japan has a culture of infantile hentai or something in its animation - which may alleviate a lot of demand for actual cp — how much cp is in Japan? (There seems to be a lot of unusual/unnatural sexual norms in Japan… from Hikkikomori to dating vending machines to total celibacy for a large proportion of the population.) https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2009/may/11/japan-child-po...

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by throw0101a on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:32PM (#36838229)
> Maybe open source generative AI can help solve cp. Cater to all these pedophile fetishes, and no need to exploit children?

Illegal in Canada (even animated/cartoons):

* https://windsor.ctvnews.ca/man-facing-child-porn-charges-aft...

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by tekla on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:38PM (#36838281)
CP is disgusting and everything, but I'm kinda weirded out about thought crime. If no harm is being done, not even indirectly to anyone else, why is it a crime?

It's not illegal to write a fanfic that you keep to yourself about all the weird ways that you want to torture and kill someone.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by EGreg on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:48PM (#36838387)
Well, if actual harm to people and children is what we want to reduce, then perhaps decriminalizing an innocuous (as in no victims) form of it may actually reduce the harm to actual people.

Just like the cases for decriminalizing prostitution and drugs: https://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalizatio...

And btw -- it's not just about thoughtcrime, it's a major double standard, seems to me. In the West it's perfectly normal for Hollywood to put out "Rated R" horror movies that feature gore and torture, ripping off limbs, mass murders, etc. Such as the movie "Hostel". I never understood why that is OK, why the music industry has pushed gangsta rap etc. for decades, but then something like Cuties out of France which actually critiques the hypersexualization of teenage girls that is taking place, causes an uproar, while the industries doing the hypersexualization are now an accepted part of our liberal "freedom of speech".

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by singpolyma3 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:15PM (#36839361)
Cuties controversy was only about some versions of the poster, and no one involved saw the movie. No one who watched the movie thought it was super controversial I think.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by brightlancer on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:41PM (#36839611)
> Cuties controversy was only about some versions of the poster,

False.

The final performance by the young girls was also discussed. You can find it if you want to watch something disgusting, but it was very sexual and OBVIOUSLY inappropriate for children.

That it's common to see children perform such sexual routines at dance competitions doesn't mean it's appropriate.

The idea that this was Only The Poster was a lie created by a media that thinks child exploitation is OK. Look at the media response to the film "Sound of Freedom", where it's "QAnon adjacent" to oppose child sex trafficking.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by johnnyanmac on Sunday July 23, 2023 @07:17PM (#36840987)
>That it's common to see children perform such sexual routines at dance competitions doesn't mean it's appropriate.

"Sexual" is relative so people will just be talking past each other in regards to that. There's no real discussion to be had there.

>The idea that this was Only The Poster was a lie created by a media that thinks child exploitation is OK

FWIW, I only heard about the poster and nothing about the full release. I'm sure some people still argued in the same way people argue about anything for months/years on end, but there was definitely a lot more controversy about the poster. Be it because it was the first look/awareness of the film, or because the film was simply nothing to write about can be left to people who actually watched the movie. I have no interest to.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by EGreg on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:39PM (#36839594)
https://www.parentstv.org/blog/how-does-a-film-critic-justif...

These guys did:

As for Netflix, how can the company possibly reconcile a “coming-of-age” film, and one that centers entirely on 11-year-old girls, with a TV-MA rating? This is not a random decision – it has become corporate practice.

We have frequently called on Netflix to stop hosting content that sexualizes children, such as Baby, Big Mouth, Sex Education, or that glamorizes rape and sexual assault such as 365 Days.

And Netflix habitually markets adult content to young audiences. Parents Television Council research of Netflix programming designated as “Teen” reveals that nearly half was rated either TV-MA (104 titles, or 40.8%) or R (23 titles, or 9.0%); and every single program that carried a TV-14 moniker included harsh profanities.

While we may not always see eye-to-eye with film critics, the criticism of the critics is telling. Cuties is not the first time Netflix has blatantly promoted programming that sexualizes children, but we’re calling on them for this to be the last.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by Tao3300 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:06PM (#36840369)
Did they watch it? I don't see anywhere where they said they actually watched it.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by brightlancer on Sunday July 23, 2023 @05:12PM (#36839892)
Legalized drug sales and prostitution among adults have _fewer_ victims but that doesn't mean no victims. Legalization is better but it isn't a panacea.

> Such as the movie "Hostel". I never understood why that is OK, why the music industry has pushed gangsta rap etc. for decades, but then something like Cuties out of France which actually critiques the hypersexualization of teenage girls that is taking place, causes an uproar, while the industries doing the hypersexualization are now an accepted part of our liberal "freedom of speech".

AFAIK, everyone involved in the production of "Hostel" was a legal adult.

The girls who were the main characters in "Cuties" were not legal adults, nor anywhere close. I don't even think they were teenagers. From the clip I saw, it wasn't a _critique_ of hypersexualization so much as LITERAL HYPERSEXUALIZATION. There may have been an ironic plot around it saying "this is bad mmm'kay" but that doesn't excuse using children to engage in sexualized behavior.

There's an important conversation to be had about US culture and violence versus sex and language (South Park parodied this well), but "Cuties" is a horrible example because it used actual children to engage in actual sexual objectification.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by anthk on Monday July 24, 2023 @05:40AM (#36845155)
That existed in the late 90's with the Spice Girls and preteen/early teen girls doing girl bands mimicking the dances in every school in Europe.

Yet no one gave a shit. This is the new Satanic panic, a scapegoat to avoid focusing ourselves on important shit.

Paranoia sells, and it's the main fuel of the US style Capitalism, getting a full panic state almost monthly in order to be a mindless consumer.

OFC satanic panic was the same crap, in order to keep the children and teens away to non-consumit (read: TV and mainstream toys, music and movies) so the industry didn't collapse in a few years. And, yet, thanks to internet, years later, they did.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by anthk on Monday July 24, 2023 @05:45AM (#36845193)
Another similar case on shameless promotion due to fear it's the Spanish media depicting squatters as the worst evil ever, specially in morning TV talk shows targeted to middle aged women (housewifes/mothers with children).

Guess what? between the show sections, (and shows themselves) they are trying to sell home alarms with lots of ads in the morning to the viewers. Bingo.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by throw0101a on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:51PM (#36838433)
It is not without debate:

* https://digitalcommons.schulichlaw.dal.ca/djls/vol25/iss1/2/

And as my updated/edited comment mention, Canada is not unique in this regard:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_child_pornography

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_fictional_porn...

Going back to Canada, some cases:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_pornography_laws_in_Cana...

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Sharpe

Perhaps the thinking is that it could create a positive feedback loop that may help the desires grow to the point 'actual' action is taken.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by tekla on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:11PM (#36838629)
I'm sort of confused by these rulings. So people got convicted for possessing loli manga/similar stuff that has no relation to real life at all.

I understand that it can be illegal at the State level, and that its a grey area at the federal level. What I don't get is the disconnect between these rulings and whatever is available on the clearnet.

We're not talking onion sites. Reddit, Twitter, 4chan, pixv, tumblr, Patreon whatever sites that you can just go to that shows up the front page of Google. They all contain similar content and almost none of it is taken down for illegality, at most because someone thought it was too ick and Ad money, or posted in a non-r18 area.

Even fucking 4chan is incredibly strict about ban hammering/deleting anything that is close to CP

Genshin Impact and Blue Archive are not popular because they are good games.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by johnnyanmac on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:50PM (#36840787)
>They all contain similar content and almost none of it is taken down for illegality, at most because someone thought it was too ick and Ad money, or posted in a non-r18 area.

Simple, the internet is huge and some currently contended US law means that (past illegal content) a web host isn't responsible for content users upload. Copyright means that corporations can DMCA certain content off, but otherwise, there's not much to do. Companies don't WANT to have to look through every single post on a site that big, so if they can automate or simply ignore it, they will.

The legality in Canada is questionable, but Canada isn't looking through Reddit with a fine tooth comb (P.S. it technically is against reddit TOS to upload lol manga stuff. But it's hard to enforce on small subreddits). Canada may not even know what Pixiv is, and Patreon is often behind paywalls. It would just take a good (well, bad) mainstream awareness to answer your question, and the answer would turn out to mostly be "because politicians didn't know until CNN/Fox News blasted it".

That much was obvious during the U.S. controversy on Rapelay, a Japanese 3d eroge simulator that was not even sold in the US (nor ever has been), simply mislabeled by Amazon and visible in American's store for a while.

>Genshin Impact and Blue Archive are not popular because they are good games.

well we're getting very off topic but this is still an odd angle. There's no one reason why these games are popular and talking about fan art vs. game quality is arguing a chicken vs. the egg. Let's just agree that fan engagement in this day and age can be a force multiplier in terms of advertising something and spreading the brand. But 10,000 x 0 is still zero. Just ask how F-Zero is doing.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by xigoi on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:57PM (#36839156)
The issue has become so emotionalized that if you say anything that even remotely looks like supporting pedophilia, people will tell you to go kill yourself.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by pessimizer on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:29PM (#36839498)
They'll do that if you criticize the Barbie movie, or fail to.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by johnnyanmac on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:31PM (#36840609)
Barbie has always been strangely entwined in the political atmosphere, funnily enough. You become an iconic kids toy and it's inevitable.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by Tao3300 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @05:58PM (#36840286)
It seems there's nothing worse than a moderate these days. One extreme thinks I must be a Satanist for not believing in the massive conspiracy to harvest adrenochrome from tortured children, while the other extreme thinks I must be a Nazi for not believing in a trans genocide.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by stevenwoo on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:32PM (#36840617)
Slight correction: it’s now every Americans’ first amendment right to send that fanfic to the subject after Counterman vs Colorado.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by johnnyanmac on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:38PM (#36840690)
>It's not illegal to write a fanfic that you keep to yourself about all the weird ways that you want to torture and kill someone.

pedantic, but it depends on many factors that can make that goal realistic. You probably wouldn't get flack about how you'd kill Trump or any public figure you're far away from, but some specific individual can be seen as a threat in some countries. Even the US isn't fully lenient on that.

>If no harm is being done, not even indirectly to anyone else, why is it a crime?

politics, mostly. For example, in Japan uncensored genetalia is still illegal, animated or otherwise. Despite some of the most explicit pornography hailing from it. These come from WW2 times where the US imposed a bunch of sanctions, but have long since been irrelevant. So why not just repeal that law?

Well, what politician wants to be the one to fall on that sword and get the buck rolling? It's political suicide to the voter base (mostly older people) even if most people wouldn't be strongly affected by it. That's one among many many other factors, of course.

And that's a relatively uncontroversial aspect of society. Can you imagine trying to go to bat about the above topic?

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by hakavlad on Monday July 24, 2023 @08:16AM (#36846696)
>CP is disgusting and everything

Why do you think so? Maybe you just haven't seen a good CP before.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by marvin on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:44PM (#36838341)
Even written, where I live. In principle even the author only wrote it for themselves, and no one ever knows. That’s pretty close to thoughtcrime.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by haakon on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:29PM (#36838207)
Generated CSAM is equally illegal as "real" CSAM in many countries, such as Norway. Here, even fictional descriptions of such material in written form is illegal.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by anthk on Sunday July 23, 2023 @02:59PM (#36838509)
Even Lolita from Nabokov? Because that book depicted that as joking about the reader and on male society in general, as there was no actual erotism on anything but the narrator's "mind"/protagonist.

Similar on how people got Starship Troopers wrong. Is not about cheering fascism, but to ridicule it.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by haakon on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:40PM (#36838942)
Lolita is covered by an exception for art. I doubt such a book could be written in Norway today, but you can't really ban historical literature.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by johnnyanmac on Sunday July 23, 2023 @07:21PM (#36841036)
>but you can't really ban historical literature.

I know what you mean. But at the same time society bans historical literature constantly.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by RajT88 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:09PM (#36838612)
> Similar on how people got Starship Troopers wrong. Is not about cheering fascism, but to ridicule it.

Well - the film also had a disconnect with the book on the topic of fascism. The book was more on the pro-fascism side.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by treis on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:16PM (#36839377)
I still can't decide if it was just a bad movie or satire by someone that didn't quite get how satire works.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by Eisenstein on Sunday July 23, 2023 @05:30PM (#36840047)
It was satire by someone who absolutely understands how satire works. Starship Troopers, the film, is brilliant.

The same director did Robocop, and if you don't get the genius satire of that, then I can't help you.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by RajT88 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @05:54PM (#36840252)
In fairness, those films can be enjoyed both superficially and as satire.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by thomastjeffery on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:00PM (#36840317)
The film intentionally satirized the book.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by glogla on Monday July 24, 2023 @04:40AM (#36844683)
The film is a satire of fascists propaganda, and as good satire often it, it is also an good example of fascist propaganda, just like Snow Crash is satire of Cyberpunk while being a good Cyberpunk.

The book isn't exactly fascist though. Verhoeven said he didn't read the book and does not plan to, so he is satirising somewhat superficially.

Heinlein did explore a lot of various political systems in his books, and I think Starship Troopers is focusing most on voter engagement - how people who vote should know something about what they vote on, and that is why only those who served (which includes military but also other "national service" like being a worker colonising planets or postman or whatever) get vote.

Is that fascist? I don't think so. Is it a good political system? I don't think so either but it is a good enough idea for a book.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by cooldrcool3 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @03:43PM (#36838983)
Have you actually read Starship Troopers? It isn’t exactly ridiculing facism.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by jowea on Sunday July 23, 2023 @06:19PM (#36840486)
I believe he is referring to the more widely known movie.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by brightlancer on Sunday July 23, 2023 @05:35PM (#36840097)
In both the book and the film Starship Troopers:

* persons can choose whether or not to do government service

* Rico's parents are quite rich even though neither are citizens

* the Moral Philosophy class tries to _discourage_ individuals from government service

* the instructor for Moral Philosophy explicitly tries to get the students to think for themselves

In the book but not the film:

* the only benefit of government service is the right to vote

* only veterans (i.e. no active service members) can vote

All of these (and more) are contrary to fascism. The book is not fascist. Verhoeven never read the book and didn't satirize fascism -- he satirized a _caricature_ of fascism.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by jowea on Sunday July 23, 2023 @07:08PM (#36840906)
Fascism is ill defined so people call the Terran Federation fascist due to being jingoistic and undemocratic, despite it being quite different from historical fascism as you say.

Also minor detail but in the book there's a few jobs that are reserved for veterans, like IIRC the police.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by ChainOfFools on Sunday July 23, 2023 @04:54PM (#36839732)
this is possibly because generated CSAM may look like no real human child nor resemble any human child in particular today. give it 5 years and physical distinction from real children and even a specific child is likely to happen. so a photo perfect likeness of your kid ends up in some disgusting video and the creators get off the hook because it's 'not real' by say a narrow color gradiation or kinematic similarity standard undetectable to human eyes? no thanks.
Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by dotnet00 on Sunday July 23, 2023 @05:39PM (#36840134)
That isn't really much of an issue, some places count material intended to resemble a real child or derived from CSAM (etc a drawing referenced from real CSAM) as still being illegal. That would handily cover the situation you've mentioned.

In those cases, for fictional CSAM to be legal, it has to be completely fictional such that any resemblances can be shown to be completely coincidence.

Re:Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit ... by tenpies on Sunday July 23, 2023 @01:57PM (#36837874)
> generative AI can help solve cp

On a side note, there was a very good film about this last year called The Artifice Girl.

Think indie, very theatrical with only three settings and three very clear acts, but thought-provoking and with some unstated implications. I would recommend watching it without checking IMDB or any review site first.