News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by threeseed on Monday October 14, 2019 @06:46AM (#21246783)
1. Never once seen an issue with USB-C to HDMI or VGA connections. It doesn't even make any sense since MacBook Pro users with external, third party monitors are an extremely common combination.

2. I just downloaded Caret (Markdown editor) from their website and used Homebrew to install a CLI tool. Nothing has changed between the current OSX and previous ones.

3. If you have a tech support issue go into the Apple Store and work with them 1-1. Very rare to find anything that someone in the store doesn't know.

4. MacBook Pro has 4 USB-C ports.

5. If you resort to calling groups of people "condescending elitist hipster latte drinkers" then pretty sure you've lost the argument.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by clownpenis_fart on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:07AM (#21247809)
Linux 2000: writing a post summarizing Linux's issues will compel a point by point response in which a fanboy will either tell you "works for me" or "you're holding it wrong".

Apple 2019: writing a post summarizing Apple products' issues will compel a point by point response in which a fanboy will either tell you "works for me" or "you're holding it wrong".

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by judofyr on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:17AM (#21247885)
{any technology} {any year}: writing a post summarizing X products' issues will compel a point by point response in which a fanboy will either tell you "works for me" or "you're holding it wrong".
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by BeefySwain on Monday October 14, 2019 @11:44AM (#21249521)
{any tribe} {any year}: a rebuttal of a point will result in accusations of bias
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by meesles on Monday October 14, 2019 @01:39PM (#21250772)
{ humans disagreeing }
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by willis936 on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:25AM (#21247950)
“And now for my next trick I shall pass a Turing test!”
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by Izkata on Monday October 14, 2019 @04:52PM (#21252767)
...thirty years ago! [0] Just have the bot question the test giver's sexual prowes and use other vulgarity.

[0] https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/03/rude-or-mean-comput...

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by ubermonkey on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:38AM (#21248081)
In any case, writing a point by point post full of false claims can and should result in rebuttals.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:28AM (#21247976)
It is worth noting that a Linux 2019 entry in that list would be also completely identical to Linux 2000.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by alecmg on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:37AM (#21248071)
hardware compatibility, laptop compatibility and perhaps plugging in monitors have definitely improved.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by ska on Monday October 14, 2019 @02:48PM (#21251443)
well, it would have had to work pretty hard to become worse :)
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by asjw on Monday October 14, 2019 @12:20PM (#21249928)
Now try to connect your old Plextor SCSI cd burner to make 1x exact high fidelity copies of your CDs on a Mac in 2019 and then on Linux.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by r00fus on Monday October 14, 2019 @12:58PM (#21250319)
It'd help if the author didn't list items that simply aren't true. The MBP 15" has had 4 usb ports since 2016.

It shows a disregard for the facts that some may rightfully call "flamebait".

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by skrebbel on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:13AM (#21247408)
> 5. If you resort to calling groups of people "condescending elitist hipster latte drinkers" then pretty sure you've lost the argument.

As a condescending elitist hipster latte drinker on an ultralight convertible Lenovo Yoga + Windows 10, I feel excluded. The days that condescending elitist hipster latte drinkers only used Mac have long passed.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by DoofusOfDeath on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:53AM (#21247682)
With respect, you post wasn't very condescending.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by IggleSniggle on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:31AM (#21248000)
Here’s my fix:

“Oh, please. People don’t _actually use_ macs while drinking their lattes anymore (except maybe ironically). Lenovo (running Windows with the Linux Subsystem enabled) is the only halfway decent way to get work done. Unless of course you’re one of those hipsters running Arch. I’ve been meaning to try that, actually.” -actual 2019 computing hipster, probably

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by zenhack on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:43AM (#21248805)
Wait, is Arch back to being a hipster thing? I thought we'd graduated to well-known distro.

I've been using Arch since '06, back when Judd was still in charge and the repos were divided up in terms of "stuff Judd maintains" and "stuff other devs maintain." It was this small community project that nobody had really heard about, and I got so used to it just not being a thing that when (sometime in the range of '10 - '12?) folks started talking about it as a hipster thing, it really took me by surprise. A few years later it seemed like it was just one of the more well known "hands on" distros with great docs, and I was glad to have that phase be done with.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by doubleunplussed on Monday October 14, 2019 @03:24PM (#21251800)
A recent survey of /r/linux users even had Arch as the most commonly used distro. I know it's not an unbiased sample and that Ubuntu is probably the most widely used all up, but it was still a surprise. Arch is mainstream - for a Linux distro.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by jvinet on Monday October 14, 2019 @06:40PM (#21253631)
Ah, those were the days.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by steveklabnik on Monday October 14, 2019 @11:12AM (#21249114)
I switched to Windows (no WSL) a few years back, and have been making the joke that real hipsters use Windows natively these days ever since.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by alchemism on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:06AM (#21248398)
“Lenovo running Windows with WSL” is _so_ 2017.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by wbl on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:01AM (#21248346)
Hipsters are defined by the obscure and retro, so would probably use an Eclipse.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by skrebbel on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:00AM (#21248331)
Actually, it's all there. You're just too daft to see it.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by notjustanymike on Monday October 14, 2019 @01:40PM (#21250781)
Typical of an elitist latte drinker to overlook cappuccino aficionados. Enjoy your grotesque milk over-usage, heathen!
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by mcv on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:02AM (#21248358)
I guess the real condescending elitist hipster latte drinkers have moved on from Macs for some time now.

(I'm about to. Probably to a Thinkpad with some Linux.)

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by randallsquared on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:23AM (#21247470)
> 1. Never once seen an issue with USB-C to HDMI or VGA connections. It doesn't even make any sense since MacBook Pro users with external, third party monitors are an extremely common combination.

Last year I had a lot of problems with this. It was pretty common[1] that USB-C to HDMI cables would work at first and then stop working in a particular port. Sometimes rebooting helped. Sometimes swapping the cable for another in the same port helped. Sometimes using another port immediately helped. There was never a good explanation for why this was happening; most resources blamed the cables. After some software update last year, suddenly all these bad cables are fine in any port.

As of this summer, there's a shiny new issue where connecting to GMail (at least) from System Preferences doesn't work, which I discovered through changing my password recently. SysPref claims it needs to open a Google login in Safari (even though that isn't my system browser!), but when Safari opens, it's to a blank page. Again, searching makes this seem like a pretty well-known problem, but no one has a solution, and Apple seems silent on it, and enough people do not have the problem that a common response is that those of us experiencing the issue must be doing or have done something wrong. And maybe we are(!), but I'd sure like to know what.

> 3. If you have a tech support issue go into the Apple Store and work with them 1-1.

Well, that literally hadn't occurred to me (for problem 2, above); I would have assumed store employees don't know anything one couldn't google immediately?

[1] I was quite annoyed that this went on long enough for me to have an opinion like "pretty common" for these connections not to work sometimes, over more than half a dozen such cables.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by rickyc091 on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:31AM (#21247999)
I constantly still have problems with my Dell 4k monitor (first gen and last year's model), where it doesn't wake properly from sleep. Most of the time, I resolve it with the following.

- Switch the USB-C port from one to another - Open up my laptop from clamshell mode and switch the cables around - Unplug my monitor - Restart my computer

The nuclear option of rebooting my computer and monitor always seems to work.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by Corrado on Monday October 14, 2019 @04:38PM (#21252605)
I have this exact same problem - 2018 MBP, Dell U3415W. Sometimes it works, sometimes I can move the mouse enough to get it to work, sometimes the monitor won't wake up at all, sometimes the monitor wakes up and has a VGA screen resolution. I thought I had "fixed" it by turning off sleep mode in the MBP, but after a couple of days of working properly it started failing to wake up again.

I know its a problem with the macOS somewhere but Apple just doesn't seem to be focused on fixing these types of things. Even if you file a bug report it disappears into the ether and is never heard from again.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by terinjokes on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:19PM (#21254314)
I own a Dell P2715Q 4K monitor and was having similar issues across operating systems. My understanding is Dell silently fixed this in firmware on new units, but provides no way of updating the firmware in the field.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by someguydave on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:08AM (#21248421)
Yeah I have similar problems with a Dell 4K Monitor and a 2018 MacBook. I have to power cycle the monitor to get it to work on occasion.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by around_here on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @08:10PM (#21277588)
I have the same issue, but I'm also using the Dell 180w dock with it. I just have to switch ports for the USB-C cable that comes from the dock 1-4 times. Usually the first plug in produces nothing on the monitor. The first port swap gets me on the external display, but at 1920x1080 resolution. The 2nd port swap gets me back at 4k on the external.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by disiplus on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:33AM (#21247529)
i have those problems still, sometimes after waking up, so i play the game have i tried this usb-c port or not. it usualy works after one two times. thank god i have 4 of them. i have a 2 external monitors and usually close the macbook.

but hey at least it works. on my linux laptop it allways forgets the layout that i had and resorts to puting the external monitor right, and dont ger me started on X and fractional scalling.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by splittydev on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:16AM (#21247878)
You can use xrandr to load your specific layout at startup. If you don't wanna be bothered with crafting an xrandr command, you can use arandr to generate the script for you.

Scaling is a mess though, totally agree with that.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by disiplus on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:45AM (#21248171)
the problem for me is having mixed dpi monitors and fractionql scaling. for laptop monitor 150% to work it scales everything 2x, that also means that my external 27" 2560 which should be 1x is rendered to 5120 and that is causing stuttering and lag, at least i think it is, tried different drivers and so on. if i set the external monitor to 125 scaling then the rendered resolution is 4k and that works better, ni shuttering and lag.

i dont know why it does need to run the external monitor to 2x if i want 1x. and i lost way to much time playing with the setup. ubuntu 1904, if you have any new ideas im willing to try it.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by vetinari on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:41AM (#21248780)
Becasue X11 doesn't support mixed dpi monitors, so you are using a hack where it pretends to have the same dpi and downsample where necessary.

For proper mixed dpi under Linux, you must use Wayland. But then, under Wayland, the fractional scaling is still not done (the wayland apps will work fine at given fractional scale, but x11 app will be @1 upsampled, i.e. blurry. That includes the browsers).

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by eropple on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:29AM (#21247986)
YMMV, but since switching to Wayland I've found issues like that to be a lot less common. Not gone completely, but rare enough that I never remember the last time when it finally occurs again. ;)
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by disiplus on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:35AM (#21248042)
sure but with hidpi display most of my apps are blurry, of browsers firefox nightly has it but chrome does not, intelij, vscode and so on.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by vetinari on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:45AM (#21248824)
Only with the experimental fractional scaling enabled. If you disable it, your X11 apps will be sharp too.

(No, I don't know why it still isn't fixed yet.)

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by disiplus on Monday October 14, 2019 @11:20AM (#21249224)
the laptop has a 13 3:2 display with 2160x1440

i cannot run it at 200, 150 is perfect, i need fractional scaling

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by eropple on Monday October 14, 2019 @01:14PM (#21250474)
That's odd. I run a 4K display at 150% and DataGrip (same codebase as IntelliJ) and VSCode look fine.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by disiplus on Monday October 14, 2019 @02:50PM (#21251464)
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by eropple on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @12:55PM (#21260686)
I am, I promise. Lookin' at it right now. ;)
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by disiplus on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @03:25PM (#21274401)
can you share your setup or screenshot ? have you enabled fractional scaling gsettings set org.gnome.mutter experimental-features "['scale-monitor-framebuffer']"
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by stefano on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:42AM (#21247207)
Regarding the first point, I had to give up on using an external monitor because fonts look blurry and give me a headache after a while. The same monitor with Windows and Linux shows perfectly fine fonts. I tried all sort of incantations found on forums, and nothing works.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by ascagnel_ on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:04AM (#21247787)
Apple redid font smoothing with Mojave, and now it looks like garbage on non-retina displays. Most 4K displays seem to be bigger, rather than denser, so you can't do much to fix it.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by desdiv on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:49AM (#21248207)
I brought an Apple PowerBook G4 back in 2005, and one of the standard system configs allowed you to calibrate the subpixel rendering parameters of fonts for the built-in display, as well as any external displays. It remembers each external display by serial model so that it could load the correct calibration profile for that particular display each time it's plugged in. I must have obsessively calibrated each of my displays at least ten times.

Was this feature removed from OSX? Or did OP try it already and it didn't help much? Honest question here; I haven't touched a mac in over a decade.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by stefano on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:34AM (#21248706)
I tried. It didn't help, the root issue is that Apple removed anti-aliasing, which is the only thing that can make fonts look readable on a 1080p resolution display. An old MacBook running OSX 10.6 looks perfectly fine on my external monitor.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by thatfrenchguy on Monday October 14, 2019 @01:06PM (#21250390)
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by stefano on Monday October 14, 2019 @01:52PM (#21250919)
Thanks, but I tried that some time ago. It didn't make much of a difference.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by philjohn on Monday October 14, 2019 @05:59PM (#21253339)
Which is why I maintain that 27" 4K is the sweet spot size and resolution wise for productivity.

I've got an LG one at home, and heading into work where I have 2 27" monitors, but only 1440p always feels like a downgrade.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by hibbelig on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:38AM (#21248750)
Is your Mac running the external monitor in its native resolution?

I have a 4k display, and when I select the "Looks like 3840 x 2160" option, UI elements are too small. Selecting "Looks like 2560 x 1440" results in blurry fonts. So I've selected "Looks like 1920 x 1080", and thanks to Retina, fonts are crystal clear. Unfortunately, UI elements (such as the menu bar at the top of the screen) are pretty gigantic now, but I live with it.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by stefano on Monday October 14, 2019 @01:54PM (#21250935)
Yup. It's a 1080p monitor running at 1080p. I tried all the other available (non native) resolutions and fonts looked blurry in all of them.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by liquid-monthly on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:02AM (#21247328)
This should do the trick.

https://github.com/LumingYin/macOSLucidaGrande

Note for me, this makes the ••• dots go away when typing passwords into system prompts. Fine!

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by sverige on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:16AM (#21247426)
"Things break at random for reasons you can't understand and the only way to fix it is to find terminal commands from discussion forums, type them in and hope for the best."
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by rusk on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:49AM (#21247648)
Ah that’s what I paid €2k for a laptop for!
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by shadowoflight on Monday October 14, 2019 @12:21PM (#21249933)
> paid €2k for a laptop

Really skimped and got a peasant model there, eh?

(Note that this is sarcasm directed at Apple’s pricing, not at rusk, who I assume is a very decent human being.)

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by stefano on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:31AM (#21248678)
Thanks, but I already tried that in the past. I didn't notice any difference. Maybe it looks decent if you have a screen with high enough resolution, but ony my 1080p screen it still looks bad.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by fabioborellini on Monday October 14, 2019 @06:59AM (#21246886)
So, Apple products should not be used in countries without an Apple Store. Sounds about right.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by song on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:05AM (#21246939)
Depends, a small protip, if you have an apple product that died because of water. Go to an apple reseller in a country without apple store. Most of the times they will turn a blind eye on the water damage and just repair it since they get paid by repairs.

At least this was my experience a few years back.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by hugi on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:10AM (#21246974)
I live in a country without an Apple store (Iceland) and I have no problems. There are multiple Apple Authorized Service Providers here that provide excellent support and service. And Iceland is a teeny tiny market so I imagine it's even easier in most parts of the world.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by dictum on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:04AM (#21247344)
My local AASP is one of the reasons I contend with some of Apple's dubious choices.

It's the best service shop I've dealt with.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by vbezhenar on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:04AM (#21246936)
I'm living in a country without Apple Store. When my Macbook broke, I went to authorized service center. They replaced SSD. It took over a month. So if it would be my work machine, I wouldn't be able to work for over a month. This is just unacceptable.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by coldtea on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:19AM (#21247054)
If you are a professional it's unacceptable to only have one work machine and no backup machine.

What if it was stolen or broken entirely instead of "SSD needs replacement"?

Then there would be nobody to replace it for you (in a month or a day), but you'd still have work to do. At best you would buy a new one, set it up again, and lose a few days to get back on track while your customers wait.

And that's assuming you have the credit at hand then and there (and you don't need to do any market research, but can just grab a machine).

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by pmjordan on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:36AM (#21247163)
Backups (both hardware and data) or not, a month turnaround is still awful and unacceptable, and reason enough to switch suppliers. Companies that take business customers seriously offer same-day on-site service.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by dkonofalski on Monday October 14, 2019 @12:25PM (#21249985)
You can send in a computer to Apple for a turn around of less than a week in most cases. Because they decided to go to a physical location, it probably caused a delay. I'm not defending the store in any way but that definitely isn't the best place to go if you know there is not a store in your area.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by joosters on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:55AM (#21247286)
If a business needs a particular level of service, perhaps they should only deal with a company/reseller that offers an acceptable SLA.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by ollie87 on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:52AM (#21247263)
My nearest Apple Store (not a third party reseller - they're bloody useless) is a 3 hour round trip, and they never have any appointments any way.

Granted that's still better support as non-business you'd get from one of the PC OEMs, but still crap.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by yreg on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:20AM (#21247913)
>not a third party reseller - they're bloody useless

Where I'm from, all official Apple premium resellers do the job just fine.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by ollie87 on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:06AM (#21248400)
They're absolutely terrible here.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by perlpimp on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:15AM (#21247865)
replacement of batter and screen was done in two days, given that parts were ordered and shipped from another city. not bad. But I understand what original article owner writes. sometimes non usb keyboards stop working and only plugging them in into the port on the hub and replugging them back into the system block gets them recognized again.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by josteink on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:29AM (#21248643)
> So, Apple products should not be used in towns without an Apple Store. Sounds about right.

FTFY.

I don’t care if there’s an Apple-store 50km away if I need my computer working now.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by Aeolun on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:03AM (#21247339)
> 4. MacBook Pro has 4 USB-C ports.

Maybe we should specify it to mean USB ports you can use for something without an adapter.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by donkeyd on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:14AM (#21247858)
Things change, deal with it. I've swapped USB cables to USB-C cables. Only USB drives, which i rarely use anymore require an adapter. Meanwhile, I can use all 4 ports to:

- Run a display

- Charge my laptop

- Charge a phone

- Connect a drive

I can even use a single port to both charge the laptop and run a screen with multiple USB devices attached to it.

I now need to daisy chain converters to use my PS/2 mouse on my MacBook though, so that's a bit of a hassle.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by Aeolun on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:13PM (#21254289)
I mean, that’s fantastic for you, but not everyone has the money to just upgrade all of their equipment the moment a port changes, so we’re forced to buy $100 adapters for everything.

It’d be fun if at least the iPhone was chargeable with usb-c, but even that requires an adapter.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by donkeyd on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @05:56AM (#21268690)
That's such weird reasoning. You spend over 1k (3k in my case) to get the latest version of a premium brand laptop, but can't afford the cables? Those cables cost $2-5 each on AliExpress. If that's too much, you definitely shouldn't be spending over 1k on a laptop.

Also, there are usb-c to lightning cables, so I'm not sure why you think you need an adapter.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by LaSombra on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:29AM (#21247987)
Probably. Prior to the touchbar model I could:

Charge, drive 2 displays, use a YubiKey, connect to a wired network and have a spare USB for charging my phone or connect a Time Machine backup.

Without daisy chain or a hub that's no longer possible.

I know I'm an outlier but still, new laptops offer less and less ports, including my Lenovo T580, and that's a shame for some.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by dkonofalski on Monday October 14, 2019 @12:19PM (#21249918)
>Prior to the touchbar model

Wait... why can't you do that anymore? I charge, drive 2 displays, and have several chargers and USB devices plugged in just via the 4 USB-C/Thunderbolt ports. Is your complaint the number of ports or the fact that they're USB-C? It sounds like the specific benefit was only the variety of ports unless I'm reading this wrong...

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by LaSombra on Monday October 14, 2019 @02:57PM (#21251537)
> and have several chargers and USB devices plugged in just via the 4 USB-C/Thunderbolt ports.

You may have missed the YubiKey and the wired network. :-)

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by dkonofalski on Monday October 14, 2019 @03:09PM (#21251648)
I did not. You can still use those with a USB-C computer. I still don't see where the issue is.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by LaSombra on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @02:34AM (#21267662)
Getting all of the together without needing a USB-C hub or dock.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by yreg on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:18AM (#21247893)
I for one very much prefer having usb-c ports to usb-a.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by dmitryminkovsky on Monday October 14, 2019 @06:49AM (#21246808)
Apple support has always been great in my experience. They’re worth the money.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by guacjack on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:33AM (#21247147)
Totally agree, a few years ago I had a 2015 27inch iMac with AppleCare which ended up getting a smudge under the display. Apple repaired it no problem.

About a year later, the stand became a little loose so over the course of the day it would end up tilting down.

Apple sympathised this was the 2nd time I had to send it in for a repair, they ended replacing with a similar specced iMac from the current year. They also give me the opportunity to upgrade any components I wanted just like if I was buying new. They also give me another 3 years of Apple Care. Ended up upgrading the CPU and GPU for about £300 and getting a brand new 2018 iMac

Obviously this is anecdotal but its things like this which keep me going back to Apple.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by hnhg on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:51AM (#21247260)
It depends on the person you get to help you, I think. Some friends have had faulty power supplies replaced even out of warranty but I was told they couldn't help me and I had to buy a new one. It's down to luck, I think.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by Infernal on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:13AM (#21247405)
100% agreed on the luck. I took my 2007 era MacBook to the Apple Store in 2009 or so for a battery that had begun to swell, and incidentally that had suffered from the notorious cracked top case issue. I had a friend that worked at the Genius Bar but he was busy with another customer so I just got luck of the draw with regard to technician.

Despite being out of the 1 year warranty without Apple Care, the woman who took my computer put in a work order to have the top case replaced and handed me a new battery off the shelf and rang it up $0.00

My friend was free as I was walking out of the store, and asked what it was I came in for. I explained about the top case and battery and when he realized I was getting the repair and replacement for free, he looked incredulous and said that he would've charged anyone for both of those without warranty or AppleCare.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by omegabravo on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:30AM (#21247514)
I dropped my personal Dell laptop (XPS13) and broke the screen. Dell sent a tech to my workplace and repaired it.

No charge.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by Grimm665 on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:21AM (#21247924)
What's your point? That you have Dell Complete Care on a work machine you don't pay for?
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by omegabravo on Sunday October 20, 2019 @05:50AM (#21303175)
My point is Apple care is not the only suitable option. I didn't select any additional support, it came with the base model (which was refurbished).
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by rvp-x on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:51AM (#21248233)
You definitely have some deal with them. I couldn't get them to respond before I showed some proof of warranty when my Dell XPS battery inflated.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by spiralx on Monday October 14, 2019 @11:15AM (#21249166)
Mine came with a faulty screen from a third-party, also had a Dell technician come to my office and replace it there and then.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by Koshkin on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:41AM (#21247584)
You've paid for this and you know it.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by basch on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:43AM (#21248142)
Lenovo on site pricing on a higher end X1 Carbon. One year, $19, Two year $89, Three year $149, Four Year $269.

Accidental Damage adds $49, $99, $129, $199, $219.

Does two years of Apple Care get you on site and accidental coverage for under $200? Oh and no deductible. Apples per incident Accidental Damage on a Covered AppleCare+ device is $99-299.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by wlesieutre on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:08AM (#21247812)
And yet I'd bet the laptop was still cheaper tham a comparable one from Apple, where the built-in upcharges are for thinness, macOS, and extortionate non-upgradeable RAM that you'd better buy up front because you don't want to be stuck with not enough RAM in a year or two.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by Spivak on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:16AM (#21247875)
Does it matter when getting good support from Apple requires buying AppleCare? Dell is solving the problem of not having physical stores to do servicing by sending people in trucks.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by burnte on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:11AM (#21247837)
Of course, you pay for it with Apple, too.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by drunner on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:05AM (#21248393)
Literally every day I come to work I have to fiddle with my usb-c to hdmi connector (yes, I replaced it once).

Not to mention a bunch of other weird things, like relocking 10 seconds after I login occasionally and having to restart so my headphone jack works (2017 macbook pro).

I have relatively other complaints (keyboard, dongles) as a first time mac user, but weird stuff like the above does remind me of past linux experiences.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by machello13 on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:13AM (#21248471)
I think part of the problem is rose-colored glasses. macOS definitely has bugs today. The question is, is it actually any worse than it was 12 years ago (in what was probably the Mac's heyday in terms of attention from Apple)? I'm not sure it is.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by throw501 on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:58AM (#21248942)
It's interesting you say 12 years ago -- 12 years ago was Leopard which according to Apple, contained over 300 changes / enhancements.

That is similar to Catalina with its too many new untested features.

Then they fixed the bugs in Snow Leopard.

The severity of Catalina's bugs are much greater than Snow Leopard. For example, there is now simultaneously a Mail deletion bug and iCloud bug to ruin your data across all machines.

Catalina needs a Snow Catalina.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by sounds on Monday October 14, 2019 @11:01AM (#21248982)
Mid-2014 Macbook Pro user reporting in.

This Macbook Pro has an actual keyboard, magsafe power port, continues to function great, works great with external monitors (HDMI port). Other than feeling squeezed for RAM and that the CPU isn't the fastest anymore, it was well worth the purchase price.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by machello13 on Monday October 14, 2019 @12:29PM (#21250030)
I have a 2012 MacBook Pro (same design as yours) and agree with you. I think it's probably the best laptop design Apple ever shipped. My work laptop is one of the new ones, and I don't particularly mind the USB-C ports, but the keyboard and the touch bar are pretty bad.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by semiotagonal on Monday October 14, 2019 @01:14PM (#21250480)
As an early-2013 MacBook Pro user, I concur. I bought the one-notch-below-top-of-the-line model, and it has been well worth the price.

Since then the hardware has gotten worse, and with MacOS Catalina, the software is worse as well (the removal of 32-bit support affects my workflow; I can't use MacOS Catalina).

The sad thing is, nothing else has really gotten better. I'm leaning toward side-grading to Linux, but there's risk involved in buying a full-spec machine for Linux and perhaps finding it doesn't do everything I need it to do.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by r00fus on Monday October 14, 2019 @01:13PM (#21250463)
Anecdata point #2: I've had minimal problems with my 2 TB/USBC->HDMI connectors (esp with Mojave), across 2017, 2018 and 2019 MBP 15". Perhaps your cable isn't the best?
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by patrickserrano on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:05AM (#21247357)
On your first point, I agree if you’re talking about first party adapters. The issue is that a lot of people and companies buy third-party and those are a crapshoot.

At my office all Mac users get cheap multi port usb-c dongles and they’re terrible. The HDMI connections display content that’s too contrast-y and end up giving users headaches. It’s very frustrating.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by jwr on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:22AM (#21247459)
Though I am not a "condescending elitist hipster latte drinker" (or at least I hope I am not), I agree with most of OPs sentiments. I would like to see Apple invest more into making sure their stuff "just works", because that's why I use their systems: they are the least-crappy of anything that is out there today.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by Koshkin on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:38AM (#21247568)
> least-crappy

In the meantime, Windows "just works."

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by jwr on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:47AM (#21248835)
I won't pick up the bait here, but I'll just say that I regularly use Mac OS, Windows and Linux, and I have good reasons for saying that Mac OS sucks the least of those three systems for desktop use.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by posedge on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:09AM (#21248429)
Isn't "just works" supposed to be one of Apple's largest selling points?
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by amiga-workbench on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:57AM (#21247724)
I have constantly had issues with Apple miniDP to VGA adaptors completely failing to detect projectors correct resolutions and they just fall back to 800x600. Holding down alt and clicking on the resolution drop down never provides the right resolution you are looking for either. Not fun to do a presentation on such a setup.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by pushpop on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:01AM (#21246900)
> 4. MacBook Pro has 4 USB-C ports.

Only if you get one with a Touch Bar - which are the more expensive end of the MBP range.

However many users don’t like the Touch Bar. For myself, I used escape and the F-keys a lot and the idea of remapping caps lock is really more of a kludge than a proper fix (not least of all because I do frequently hope between USB keyboards and Linux laptops as well - so pressing caps lock isn’t a habit I particularly want ingrained into muscle memory).

Given the premium you pay for Apple and the form factor of USB-C, having more than 2 ports shouldn’t be a feature reserved for the upper tiers of MacBook Pro’s. In fact it never used to be back before MBPs took on the design stylings of their “Air” counterparts.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by tolqen on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:09AM (#21246970)
All current MPBs have a Touch Bar. Apple no longer sells any without one.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by werber on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:04AM (#21247351)
I can’t code with those damn things. I got one from work and returned it, I do not understand how they decided people needed it. I haven’t looked at my keyboard since Mavis Beacon back in elementary school and suddenly it demands my attention, so annoying
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by shantly on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:21AM (#21248557)
I have to all but disable them (using spacer elements to make most of it blank, disabling per-app buttons so it stays that way all the time) to make them tolerable. Otherwise I brush the bottom edge of it too often, making a variety of undesired shit happen.

So they hiked the prices in order to give me a "feature" I wouldn't care about even if it did work well, and have to effectively disable to be able to use the laptop. Thanks.

If they'd kept prices about the same (the modest spec bump certainly didn't justify such a large increase...) and left off the damn touchbar I'd be on a new one now. Still on my 2014 instead, tempted to drop a few hundred on a fast Dell or Lenovo and stick Linux on it but knowing it'd just piss me off so much I'd return it. Really wish anyone would give them some real competition on their OS.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by whywhywhywhy on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:31AM (#21247517)
Doesn't matter, the $1299 base model and $1499 mid model still only have 2 USB-Cs even with the Touch Bar. The $1799 model upwards have 4.

All MBPs in my company have 2 USB-C ports because my company (like many others) only buys the cheapest model of laptops.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by lonelappde on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:58AM (#21247734)
And those "Pro" machines only have 8GB RAM (shared with Graphics, which need 2GB) unless you add another $200 for $40 more worth of RAM.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by laumars on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:56AM (#21247296)
That change happened literally only a couple of months ago (maybe 3 tops). Seems a bit pedantic to down vote him/her when their point was true for most of the last 3 years.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by sdan on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:36AM (#21247172)
Wish they’d still stick with the function keys... but axed it off this year. Regardless it’s ridiculous to sell any machine with only two ports.... even the $35 Raspberry pi has ports than this!
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by Fnoord on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:42AM (#21247592)
I'm good with 2 available ports like my MBPs 2015 have (as they still have MagSafe; which I prefer, btw). The problem with MB(P)s with 2 USB-C is that one is used for charger, hence you got effectively only 1 port.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by sdan on Monday October 14, 2019 @02:33PM (#21251322)
Right.

1 port? Apple, I will go ahead and follow the USB C revolution. But you think that'll happen with effectively 1 port?

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by least on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:57AM (#21247302)
I would encourage you to reconsider rebinding the caps lock key, unless you have a good reason to keep it (perhaps you're a COBOL programmer?).

You can change it to behave that way for all usb keyboards and you can also use xmodmap or a program called xcape to add dual functionality to the key in linux.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by laumars on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:08AM (#21247376)
Not the OP but I too switch between lots of systems. The idea of reconfiguring each and every one of them, including work colleagues machines, physical terminals for on-prem systems, my wife Windows laptop and so on and so forth, just to fix a bad design on a singular work laptop, seems like insanely bad advice. Instead I'm going to order myself a Linux machine for my next upgrade and have my hardware function the way I find productive.

YMMV but the appeal of MBPs for me was never OSX/macOS but rather the build quality of their hardware. I don't feel that's the case any longer. I guess if Macs are your main platform then remapping might be a more favourable option but for people where the MBP is the outlier (like myself) changing everything else to fit is just bad advice.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by least on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:39AM (#21247577)
It's your prerogative to do what you want with your machine.

Caps lock being on the home row is a bad design in my opinion. Remapping it to something useful is making your hardware work for you, not against you. You obviously can't make your coworkers change their behavior but you're completely in control of your own, where most of your work is likely being done.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by laumars on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:18AM (#21248528)
My hardware does already work for me. Remapping caps lock is a micro-optimisation where as committing keystrokes to muscle memory is not. So the jarring effect I'd experience when switching back to a system that doesn't have caps lock remapped would easily outstrip any benefit I'd receive from it.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by least on Monday October 14, 2019 @11:14AM (#21249139)
I switch between different keyboard layouts fairly frequently (I use a kinesis advantage 2 which is quite different from traditional keyboards) so maybe it is just being used to being somewhat uncomfortable when having to type on other keyboards that is making it harder to appreciate the difficulty it actually presents to others.

It seems like you are using different keyboards constantly so fixing it on one laptop maybe doesn't offer you much benefit. I doubt that everyone that reads this is constantly changing keyboards, though. For those it would certainly be beneficial unless they are for whatever reason using caps lock frequently.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by wayneftw on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:08AM (#21247814)
> 5. If you resort to calling groups of people "condescending elitist hipster latte drinkers" then pretty sure you've lost the argument.

They concluded with it. Resorting to it would mean that they had no other arguments to make.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by globular-toast on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:59AM (#21247307)
If this was 2000, I'd be making this comment about Linux.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by Antoninus on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:02AM (#21247327)
I drink both lattes and espresso; use both osx and linux. You can discuss pros and cons of both without having to resort degrading classification.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by crististm on Monday October 14, 2019 @06:55AM (#21246848)
Except when you have more than one external monitors and MacOS decides to rearrange them arbitrarily after reconnecting them.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by sgjohnson on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:09AM (#21246971)
Hasn't happened to me. I'm running 3 external monitors when my MacBook is docked at home, 2 when I'm at the office.

Not once the order was not correct when reconnecting.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by jen20 on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:19AM (#21247051)
I'll second this. I work between home and two different offices, each with it's own monitor configuration. The offices each have the same model of monitor, but I configure them to be on different sides of the laptop itself. This has worked flawlessly for years, including with Catalina.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by jsjohnst on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:06AM (#21246949)
> MacOS decides to rearrange them arbitrarily after reconnecting them

Not had that problem personally in at least 3 MacOS major releases. What version of MacOS are you using?

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by my123 on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:15AM (#21247029)
A lot of monitors, especially cheaper ones, don't have the serial number fields populated in the EDID, so that the OS can't distinguish between them.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by jsjohnst on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:21AM (#21247066)
I encounter a bunch of cheap monitors, still not had that issue recently. But that doesn’t disprove your point, just my own personal experience.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by crististm on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:58AM (#21247733)
High Sierra 10.13.6
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by mjlee on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:04AM (#21246932)
I've found I got this to work reliably when I connected the same monitor to the same port every time. I'm not sure how well other OSes handle this though.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by theshrike79 on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:56AM (#21247293)
My MacBook even remembers the meeting room projector on a client I visit like 4 times a year and sets everything like it was before.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by mlakkadshaw on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:56AM (#21247716)
I face the problem on a daily basis connecting my external monitor with my Macbook Pro and Mac Mini via thunderbolt. Either monitor is not detected or I am not able to wake the computer from sleep when the external monitor is connected.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by masterwok on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:44AM (#21248144)
I'm currently experiencing issues with trying to use an nVIDIA eGPU as apparently only AMD cards are supported officially. Display port chaining also fails to work as it only mirrors displays.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by mschaef on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:22AM (#21248567)
> 5. If you resort to calling groups of people "condescending elitist hipster latte drinkers" then pretty sure you've lost the argument.

Agreed. It always surprises me to see this kind of text in an argument outside of a grade school schoolyard. I've never once read anything like this and thought to myself, "Well, that proves it! This guy's right!"

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by unionpivo on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:57AM (#21248938)
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by foldr on Monday October 14, 2019 @11:29AM (#21249338)
>MacBook Pro has 4 USB-C ports.

I agree with what you're saying, but as a pedantic factual correction, the 13" MacBook Pro has two.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by jesuschroist on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:13AM (#21247406)
There is not a single tech support issue which would make me get out of my slippers into some store.
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by wil421 on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:43AM (#21247598)
Had an issue with my space bar. Brought it in for a recall, had it back within 5 days. The fixed it in house and didn’t send it to a 3rd party. Speed and Apple employees fixing things had me put on my slippers.

Meanwhile HP doesn’t want to fix my work Zbook because while the high pitch fan whine is annoying, the computer still functions. Keys and the little mouse button are falling off after one year.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by basch on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:37AM (#21248069)
Lenovo ThinkPads have like a 2 day turnaround. Good service and speed isnt exclusive to Apple, do they really deserve credit for something many companies execute well? Apple brought enterprise level support to consumers, past enterprise price.

In my experience Lenovo Thinkpad hardware customer service easily beats Apple in efficiency and speed. You spend considerably less time debating the topic than with Apple and Dell. "Hey this is broken, did you try this, ok send it in, we will ship you a box." Or for less than $100 you can have 2-3 years on-site. On a higher end X1 Carbon right now 2 year on site with accidental damage (ad is usually depot only, but the on site covers normal failures) is less than $200. 5 days to get my laptop back to me would feel slow.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by karmakaze on Monday October 14, 2019 @11:25AM (#21249279)
> 1. Never once seen an issue with USB-C to HDMI ...

Apple's adapter only goes to 4k@30Hz. Which have you found to work? My monitor only has usb-c and two 4k hdmi@60 and two HDMI 4k@30.

It's also annoying that Netflix on Mac doesn't do 4k where even my lowly Surface Go does.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by gfdgsgaagrhstrs on Monday October 14, 2019 @01:58PM (#21250976)
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by karmakaze on Monday October 14, 2019 @03:50PM (#21252088)
Hey thanks for the tip on the Model A2119. I have the Model A1621 and a third-party one which didn't do the job.
[dead]
Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by dang on Friday October 18, 2019 @01:25AM (#21288922)
Abusing HN like this will eventually get your main account banned as well, so please don't.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by EugeneOZ on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:13AM (#21247407)
> If you have a tech support issue go into the Apple Store and work with them 1-1. Very rare to find anything that someone in the store doesn't know.

Apple Store is a crowd of tired as hell staff who's only desire is to get rid of you.

Re:Apple of 2019 is the Linux of 2000 by CJefferson on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:55AM (#21247705)
I'm sure 3 is great if you live in a city, but my nearest apple store is about 2 hours away...