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Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by h2odragon on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @07:52AM (#29317190)
I seem to recall a bunch of stories in ~2008 about how the "Strategic Reserve" wasn't enough to affect market prices etc. Has it got bigger? Has the market got smaller? was the media reporting bullshit for an agenda then, or are they now?
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by jseliger on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:16AM (#29318745)
The shortsightedness of people is amazing: since the '70s, when oil prices go down, people reliably buy wasteful and large cars. Then they go up, and people reliably do the opposite.

In the last ten years, everyone and their brother bought vanity pickup trucks and SUVs. Now, suddenly, everyone is shocked, shocked that oil prices have gone back up. Will anyone ever learn?

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by onlyrealcuzzo on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:24AM (#29318861)
The Silverado and the F-150 are the only 2 cars in the top 15 best-selling cars in the US which are particularly fuel inefficient.

The best selling cars for quite some time have been decently fuel efficient in the US.

Even when gas prices are expensive - the US has never been selling a lot of cars like the Fiat 500.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by nyokodo on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:32AM (#29318972)
> The Silverado and the F-150 are the only 2 cars in the top 15 best-selling cars in the US which are particularly fuel inefficient.

Sure, however the F-150 was by far the biggest selling vehicle at least up until 2019. Over 3 times as many sold as the second most popular vehicle.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by SkyPuncher on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:46AM (#29319146)
My father's F-150 is _more_ fuel efficient than my 4-cylinder crossover - both in the mid-20's for mpg.

In order to get a meaningful reduction in consumption, you need to be driving a sedan or coupe.

----

Many of the bigger vehicles have unnecessarily large engines. However, that's not necessarily true across the board.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by xattt on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:26AM (#29319704)
Best of both worlds of capacity and fuel economy is a station wagon.

With the Golf Sportwagen (EU name Golf Variant) off the market in North America now, it leaves Volvos and Subarus as the only option.

I predict that in the next decade, station wagons will get rediscovered as manufacturers try to maximize range and reduce battery volume as electrification marches on.

Edit: forgot about Subarus

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by biztos on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @12:31PM (#29320555)
I just checked and it seems the Subaru Outback is bigger than the Golf Variant and has otherwise similar stats.

Are they not the same class of car?

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by raydev on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @03:05PM (#29322635)
Different size class. The Outback is a lifted large sedan with an extended trunk, there aren't any vehicles on the market that compare to it except perhaps the Toyota Venza.

Outback "competes" with the crossovers which are usually shorter in length and have taller interior space.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by pintxo on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @04:04PM (#29323515)
Don't they sell the Mercedes E-Class T Model in the US?
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by xattt on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @09:32PM (#29326369)
Volvo wagons start at about $51k CAD, MB C-Class starts at $57k CAD and an E-Class starts at $81k CAD. This is out of reach of Jonny Everyman (including me).

I purchased a base Golf Sportwagen with 4Motion back in 2017 for around $29k which was surprisingly nicely equipped (DSG, tunable engine, decent soundsystem). A similarly equipped Suburu would have been mid-to-high $30s.

If I had freedom to "flex", I would have gone for the Volvo because of the safety street cred.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by raydev on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @05:40PM (#29324470)
Perhaps, Mercedes is luxury though. People are more likely to purchase something that provides better value/size/gas mileage that costs 40% less.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by xattt on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @12:47PM (#29320769)
My mistake. I did forget about this one!
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by anemoiac on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @08:24AM (#29329731)
I hope you’re right. I’ve been driving wagons for years, but the US market for them has been shrinking consistently since crossovers became a thing. Europeans seemingly have oodles of options, but God forbid automakers allow Americans a sporty AWD wagon with a manual transmission…
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by eptcyka on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @01:34PM (#29321373)
The very hard edge on the tail of a wagon makes it a terribly great at producing turbolence which is bad for fuel efficiency. I think shooting break or sort of stretched-out hatchbacks will be where it's at.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by tssva on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @12:29PM (#29320537)
Isn't the Subaru Outback still a station wagon even if they try to disguise it with crossover inspired body panels.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by raydev on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @01:37PM (#29321421)
It has quite a bit of ground clearance despite it's low profile. It's higher off the ground than more popular models like the CR-V, RAV4, Highlander, etc.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by _huayra_ on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:32AM (#29319796)
What 4-cylinder crossover is getting mid-20s (at least hwy mpg)?

Certainly a lot of these lil crossovers with natural-aspirated 4-cylinder engines can really strain to heft a bigger vehicle up from a stop (I'm looking at you, Subaru!), but once one is driving hwy speeds they are really quite fuel-sipping.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by eptcyka on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @01:32PM (#29321339)
The examples listed are Honda Element and Nissan Murrano, which are decidedly not small, fuel efficient vehicles but instead blown-up heavier counterparts built on a shared platform with a 4 cylinder engine. These cars are often less practical than their smaller, more fuel-efficient counterparts. So these are not exactly arguments against buying smaller, lighter and more fuel efficient cars.

One reason why SUVs are as popular as they are is that car manufacturers are allowed to produce less efficient cars if they are larger and with off-road capability. This allows bigger, less efficient cars compete with the more efficient ones because the sale price ends up being close enough to the more efficient counterparts for this to not matter.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by rsj_hn on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @02:05PM (#29321831)
> One reason why SUVs are as popular as they are is that car manufacturers are allowed to produce less efficient cars if they are larger and with off-road capability

This was true like in the 1990s. It hasn't been true in a very long time (almost 20 years now). The only limit at which these standards don't apply is truly heavy duty (5000 pounds) and not even a hummer is over that threshhold.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by rascul on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @06:45PM (#29325110)
> The only limit at which these standards don't apply is truly heavy duty (5000 pounds) and not even a hummer is over that threshhold.

Edmunds has the 2004 H1 at 7,608 lbs. [0] and the 2009 H2 at 6,614 lbs. [1] 2004 and 2009 are the newest Edmunds has for those models. Looks like the new GMC Hummer EV is going to be over 9,000 lbs. [2] The lightest 2022 Chevrolet Tahoe that I could find on Edmunds was 5,473 lbs. [3]

[0] https://www.edmunds.com/hummer/h1/2004/features-specs/

[1] https://www.edmunds.com/hummer/h2/2009/features-specs/

[2] https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-gmc-hummer-ev-pickup-ed...

[3] https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/tahoe/2022/features-specs/

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by rsj_hn on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @08:09PM (#29325823)
My mistake, the limit isn't 5000 but 8500 pounds. In 2027 these will also be covered under fuel-efficiency standards.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/why-dont-heavy-duty-trucks-have...

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by SkyPuncher on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @01:59PM (#29321745)
Basically the entire segment: https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/suvs-best-gas-mileage

Now, keep in mind, I'm talking about actual fuel usage. Not "ideal testing conditions". For example, my Chevy Equinox is supposed to get 32 highway - but it really only gets 26 (cruising at 70mph with no traffic).

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by stickfigure on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @01:21PM (#29321191)
My 2009 Honda Element gets 22-24mpg. A friend had a Nissan Murano that got similar.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by derefr on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:22PM (#29326626)
> Many of the bigger vehicles have unnecessarily large engines. However, that's not necessarily true across the board.

"Unnecessarily large engine" sure sounds like something that would have negative consequences, but Cylinder Deactivation (CDA) is a thing. Just like your CPU, your engine doesn't need to spin up every "core" if it's not loaded to 100%. And fewer concurrent explosions per second, means less gas needed to drive all those explosions. A V8 that's only driving 4 of its 8 cylinders in most situations, is likely going to be even less gas-guzzling than a V6 that always has to drive all 6 cylinders. (Well, other than the fact that the V8 has to work slightly harder to move a car that's heavier from the additional engine weight.)

Of course, not all vehicles have CDA. But more and more do.

And, relevant to the discussion — as of the 2021 model, the F-150 has CDA. (https://pickuptrucktalk.com/2020/10/2021-ford-f150-5-0l-v8-e...)

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by nradov on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @12:59PM (#29320924)
I've owned sedans and coupes before. Never again. Lifting heavy objects out of a trunk is just too hard on my back.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by mint2 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @02:36PM (#29322254)
A Forster or outback is not a coupe or sedan and the forester mpg is 33 highway.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by newbamboo on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @12:39PM (#29320665)
Mostly fleet purchases or commercial vehicles which contradicts the parents point about individual purchasing decisions. I know a lot of people who drive trucks as their primary vehicle, none of them drive f150’s. It’s absurd.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by kesselvon on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:31AM (#29318958)
18 of the top 25 selling cars in the U.S. are SUVs or pick-ups. Which are inherently less efficient than a sedan.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by dahfizz on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:37AM (#29319033)
Not really. The top selling SUVs (RAV4, CRV, and Rogue) all get 35 mpg on the highway. That's better than the non-hybrid Honda Accord, for example.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by diebeforei485 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:02AM (#29319360)
I've always found the "highway" thing to not be very useful. Yes, if you're on cruise control on the open highway at constant speed, you will get good mileage in an SUV.

But in practice that sort of situation only applies during road trips. Most people's actual highway driving is driving in traffic, which is a lot less efficient.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by rory on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:45AM (#29319999)
> Most people's actual highway driving is driving in traffic, which is a lot less efficient.

Is that statistical, or anecdotal? It's counter to my personal driving patterns. Even in moderate congestion my Hyundai gets mileage closer to its "highway" MPG than "city" (when using cruise/distance control).

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by fomine3 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @07:57PM (#29325732)
Hybrids mainly helps frequent stop city driving rather than constant highway driving, SUVs aren't good for Cd value that's important for highway driving. Because of that, pure ICE sedans should get relatively good value for highway mileage, but not good for city.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by citrin_ru on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @02:47PM (#29322404)
> Most people's actual highway driving is driving in traffic

When I had cars I used them mostly to get out on weekends or for longer trips on vocations. May be I’m an outlier but during the pandemic time work from home is common and this allows to avoid driving in traffic.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by jsight on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:22AM (#29319647)
Its not that bad. I've had daily commutes that were 70% highway at 40-60, and that's much closer to the EPA "highway" cycle than it should be.

The highway cycle is actually not all high speed driving.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by jopsen on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @12:04PM (#29320226)
35mpg == 15 km/L

Wow, that's not good... A large Sedan from early 2000s driven well can easily beat that..

I regularly hear about small cars doing 70 mpg == 30km/L

My Toyota Yaris is not fuel efficient at 130 km/h on the highway, but it still manages 40mpg = 17 km/L

Of course, it's not SUV.. I basically decided against buy a big car until EVs are ready -- they are now, but that doesn't mean I should throw out my existing car :)

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by raydev on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @02:59PM (#29322558)
I think you've made an incorrect conversion to metric units.

First off, if you're not in the US, make sure that you are converting from a US gallon, and not imperial gallon.

35 MPG (US gallons) = 6.72 Liters per 100 km

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by jopsen on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @04:00PM (#29323460)
Mileage is really a mess... Some place in the EU uses L / 100km, others km/L, I was using Google so I think the unit was correct.

Any case, my car does roughly 17 megameters / meter^3 -- that's proper SI units :)

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by raxxorrax on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @05:46AM (#29328723)
In Europe the common metric is l/100km. 35 mpg translates to a little above 6.7 l/100km, which is good - average for a car in Europe (average is 7.8l/100km = 30mpg). I guess today there is a smaller difference in fuel efficiency. This is for gasoline, not diesel engines.

US cars are a bit bigger than european or asian models, so they are probably a bit heavier. Still, I think fuel efficiency is pretty optimized in all modern cars regardless of where you live.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by nimos on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @01:53PM (#29321659)
Civic gets 36 combined, Corolla is 33 combined, Rav4/CRV are both 30 combined. A Prius is 54 combined. Not sure where you are hearing about 70 mpg.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by jopsen on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @03:55PM (#29323390)
My Toyota Yaris is rated at 27 km/L = 63mpg

But maybe that's only downhill -- I'm certainly not reaching it :)

But other mini cars like: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Lupo

Or so I hear...

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by dahfizz on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @04:51PM (#29324015)
The Toyota Yaris gets 40mpg highway / 35 mpg combined: https://www.cars.com/articles/2020-toyota-yaris-mpg-can-frug...
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by Balero on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:05AM (#29319415)
Yes really. That is not a very good benchmark.

My Toyota Yaris gets over 50mpg on motorways, so about 50% better.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by gandalfian on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @12:42PM (#29320705)
Though having 25% larger gallons in the UK helps too. (Not that there isn't truth in European cars having been more efficient for thirty years).
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by Balero on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @09:46AM (#29330439)
Very good point! I always forget this!
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by jf22 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:08AM (#29319468)
The point is that if they were smaller cars they'd get even better MPG.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by Spivak on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:15AM (#29319555)
And be a less useful vehicles for doing the kinds of things that most people ask of them, carrying stuff that doesn't fit in a standard sized trunk like furniture and appliances.

All those sedans would be way more fuel efficient if they were motorcycles too, but I don't think you'd agree that they're comparable.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by _huayra_ on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:38AM (#29319884)
Do most people ask that their vehicle carry furniture and appliances on a regular basis?

Honestly any time I have a larger item either being hauled to my place or away from it, it's someone else's vehicle, e.g. delivery of a new appliance or pricing it to move quickly on craigslist so someone comes and takes it away.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by macksd on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:58AM (#29320166)
Someone from Craigslist comes and takes it away? On what, their back?
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by Spivak on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:51AM (#29320079)
So your solution to not needing to move things is for other people with suitable vehicles to come and move things? How is that gonna work when everyone has a sedan?

It's true for everyone I know who has children and owns a house in the burbs. The cost of taking delivery from everything from TVs, lawn mowers, dirt, mulch, Costco trips, adds up and SUVs aren't really more expensive than sedans.

Like I get you, I live a very privileged urban apartment dweller life and can afford to just pay for people to move things for me the few times I need it but renting tools and labor is expensive for a family.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by Pet_Ant on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @02:13PM (#29321941)
> How is that gonna work when everyone has a sedan?

People who specialise in it? Like moving vans or toe trucks?

> but renting tools and labor is expensive for a family.

Compared to the extra cost of the vehicle and gas? I mean how often do you buy new furniture? People ask how I manage without a car: simple I bus or take a cab. "cabs are expensive" per trip sure... but per year? Nothing compared to the cost of car ownership. If big cars aren't false economy yet, then they will be once we start paying for our carbon. Most of us could get around 90% of the time in a coupe.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by Spivak on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @03:21PM (#29322887)
It's not different. That's the whole point.

    2020 Honda Accord: $28k total cost of ownership [1] 30/37 mpg 282 g/m emissions rating [3]

    2020 Honda CR-V: $28k total cost of ownership [2] 28/34 mpg 294 g/m emissions rating [3]
[1] https://www.edmunds.com/honda/accord/2020/cost-to-own/?style...

[2] https://www.edmunds.com/honda/cr-v/2020/cost-to-own/?style=4...

[3] https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=42071&...

According to [3] the yearly fuel cost difference is $50. For reference on the emissions numbers a 2010 H3 Hummer is 555g/m.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by jf22 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @01:38PM (#29321436)
Society survived without SUVs. We have everything delivered in an instant.

We don't need all this crap, and we don't need SUVs to carry it around.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by Spivak on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @01:51PM (#29321630)
Yeah, we had minivans, station wagons, and small pickup trucks. Then we had what are now called "full-size" SUVs. Midsize SUVs today are just slightly bigger cars.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by dahfizz on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:47AM (#29320037)
The point is that crossover/SUVs get good enough MPG. Fuel economy is not the only, or even the primary, consideration when buying a car.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by philistine on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @03:18PM (#29322843)
If the price of gas keeps rising at the same pace for the next seven years, it will be.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by Aunche on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:07AM (#29319437)
Most SUVs are intentionally just taller hatchbacks. They're maybe a couple mpg less fuel efficient than a similar sedan, but in return you get a more comfortable feeling car.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by evilduck on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:58AM (#29320157)
And far more utility than a traditional sedan, I own one of each and my midsized SUV that covers a lot of small truck use cases. I can strap things to the roof racks, I can open the back and lay down the seats and carry small and extended cargo. It has all wheel drive and handles bad weather conditions better than a front wheel drive car. It's higher up and provides better visibility than my sedan. It can handle hauling small trailers. Sedans _typically_ don't come equipped to handle dirty things like outdoor sports and pets while my SUV has rubber floor mats/trays everywhere. For road trips and camping trips I can pack almost twice as much stuff in the SUV and those things are more easy accessed than a car trunk.

SUVs existing _prevent_ me from buying a small to midsized truck so to me the view is "look at the efficiency gained compared to the Ranger or Tacoma" instead of "look at how inefficient the Outback or Escape is compared to a Civic".

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @12:12PM (#29320323)
That's when you realize that there are station wagons with better mpg more utility and your head explodes.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by evilduck on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @01:23PM (#29321214)
I'm not ignorant of them but there simply aren't that many wagon options on the market new or used and peak MPG isn't the only metric for purchasing a vehicle.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @02:09PM (#29321886)
Your post seemed pretty ignorant of other choices besides SUVs and trucks. Mercedes has 6 station wagons/shooting brakes, VW has 4, BMW has 4, Toyota has 5, Hyundai has 4, Kia has 3, Honda got 5 every big car manufacture has at least 3 station wagons in their portfolio. I know there are more SUVs because of the SUV hype in the last years but stating that there are no options on the market is just not true.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by raydev on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @03:09PM (#29322706)
> Mercedes has 6 station wagons/shooting brakes, VW has 4, BMW has 4, Toyota has 5, Hyundai has 4, Kia has 3, Honda got 5

Okay, and now go to each of these manufacturer's US websites and check how many are available in the US.

Also, consider that Mercedes and BMW only offer luxury models at luxury prices in the US.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by evilduck on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @02:32PM (#29322221)
I literally did not make the claim that no wagon options exist anywhere in what I wrote. What are you even arguing here? Why even make that strawman?

I compared SUVs to sedans and trucks because those are more available by volume by a long shot when purchasing, and most wagons actually fail to meet most of the utility criteria I listed, and those that do are designed far more like a low-clearance SUVs than as a "wagonized" version of a base sedan model.

Enjoy your day and whatever agenda it is that you're pushing. Goodbye.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @02:55PM (#29322511)
You left the most popular utility car option out of your reasoning there is no agenda at all. In the international market the station wagon is still first as utility vehicle and it is on the rise in the US as well. I don't know why you get so agetated about it.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/25864/station-wagon-sales-are-...

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by nradov on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @12:53PM (#29320848)
Some Ford F-150 models get 25 mpg combined fuel economy. That's pretty good. At that rate a typical owner will spend only a few hundred dollars per year extra on fuel compared to a smaller car.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=43614

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by mint2 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @02:33PM (#29322230)
I was reading car and drivers list of worst mpg vehicles today, not surprisingly pick up trucks are awful. 16mpg highway with giant gas tanks.

No wonder people feel the pain when they have to pay like $200 to fill up and be able to drive ~400miles. I don’t have sympathy except for the ones that legitimately use it for work. Otherwise it’s massively wasteful and all that’s different now is they can feel how wasteful their car is.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by adrianmonk on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @02:13PM (#29321938)
Is that the reason, though? I heard on the news (unfortunately don't remember where) that oil production decreased when people were driving less, then as people resumed driving, production didn't increase as fast as demand.

Which would make sense to me because there have been a ton of situations where some pandemic event has caused some previously generally stable thing to shift (up or down) to some new level, then we have chaos as other things try to adapt and find a new equilibrium. Then when the pandemic stops forcing that thing to an unusual level, it springs back toward its normal level, and again other things take time to adapt and find an equilibrium.

So actually we seem to get two edge-triggered periods of chaos where something shifts from value V1 to V2 (that's one edge trigger) and then shifts back from V2 to V1-ish (the other edge trigger).

And if you look at crude oil prices over the last few years, they were lower during 2020 than in previous years. Now they are higher. So that fits the pattern I'm describing.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by citrin_ru on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @06:15AM (#29328859)
> Then when the pandemic stops forcing that thing to an unusual level, it springs back toward its normal level, and again other things take time to adapt and find an equilibrium.

There will be no stable equilibrium for a long time ahead. Governments around the world continue to introduce lockdowns on a short notice when cases rise and we are nowhere near COVID-restrictions free international travel. Any change in restrictions would change oil demand too.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by coolso on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @12:18PM (#29320395)
> Now, suddenly, everyone is shocked, shocked that oil prices have gone back up.

We also had ten years worth of truck and SUV purchases prior to inauguration day early this year, and I recall everyone paying almost a dollar and a half less per gallon during that time period.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by rsj_hn on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @12:59PM (#29320914)
> The shortsightedness of people is amazing: since the '70s, when oil prices go down, people reliably buy wasteful and large cars. Then they go up, and people reliably do the opposite.

You don't want people to respond to economic incentives? That means there is no point to adding gas taxes to incentivize fuel efficiency - or do you believe that people only respond to increasing gas prices and not decreasing prices?

How, in your view, would such an asymmetric response function work?

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by rory_isAdonk on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:06AM (#29319427)
are you trying to tell me finite resources aren't infinite? You ain't mur'ican den buddy.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by nerdponx on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @02:58PM (#29322544)
How much does the gas mileage of consumer automobiles in the USA actually affect oil prices?
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by blago on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @08:21AM (#29317446)
This is not just the US but also China, India, Japan, South Korea and the U.K. It's serious enough that OPEC+ is threatening "response".
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by rblion on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @08:28AM (#29317521)
Hmmmm. Why are we needing to get oil from the reserves? Is this due to politics or demand or both? Could this lead to global conflict?
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by mc32 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @09:08AM (#29317954)
On the one hand he’s closing pipelines which are safer than rail for oil transport. On the other hand he’s asking/telling OPEC to pump out more… Canada is willing but we’re closing pipelines. And then, we get into the business of telling Europe whether they should put up with higher natgas prices because we have an opinion about nordstream II.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by dntrkv on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:10AM (#29318671)
You really have no ability to differentiate between those things?

Preventing new pipelines from being built == long term effects

Nord Stream == long term effects

Asking OPEC to supply more gas for our current needs == short term effects

Building pipelines is a commitment to consume more fossil fuels in the future. Whereas, increasing production to lower prices in a time of global shortages of every kind, is not that.

Stop trying to equate two completely different things. They're not even in the same ballpark.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by AnthonyMouse on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:28AM (#29319732)
Pipelines lower costs. To the extent that that's bad, it's because it makes fuel less expensive, so people buy less efficient vehicles that use more fuel. It's the same reason why a carbon tax is a means to reduce CO2.

The fact that the pipelines are in the future makes them less effective at reducing CO2. You want people to buy hybrids and electric cars right now, not wait until years from now. Lowering the present day price of gas is the worst thing to do.

If people are struggling then cut some of the pork and send more stimulus checks instead. Heck, do a carbon tax and refund all the money -- the average person comes out ahead because some of the tax gets paid by corporations and all the money goes to individuals.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by vinay427 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:54AM (#29319245)
> And then, we get into the business of telling Europe whether they should put up with higher natgas prices because we have an opinion about nordstream II.

There are more than enough voices within Europe doing that already. The US simply adds to the mix, not in opposition to “Europe.”

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20210119IP...

> Following years of deteriorating relations, MEPs stress the importance of critically reviewing cooperation with Russia in various foreign policy platforms and on projects such as Nord Stream 2. They call on the EU to immediately stop the completion of the controversial pipeline.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream

> The Nord Stream 2 pipeline was also opposed by former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki, former U.S. President Donald Trump, the European Council President Donald Tusk and British foreign minister Boris Johnson.[179][180] Tusk has said that Nord Stream 2 is not in the EU's interests.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by mc32 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:05AM (#29319411)
I can understand the Polish opposition. Trump probably wanted to look tough in the face of ‘Russia’ accusations which so far have not been proven. Boris was just jockeying -a more energy source diversified Europe is less dependence on the UK. But US complaining about Nordstream makes as much sense as Russia complaining about the US building the XL pipeline or drilling in the ANWR. It’s meddling for kicks.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by Anechoic on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:02AM (#29318578)
On the one hand he’s closing pipelines which are safer than rail for oil transport.

By "he" I presume you're referring to the Biden administration. What "pipelines" have they closed? Biden pulled the permit for the Keystone XL, but that's not so much closing a pipeline as prohibiting a new one from being build (maybe you were including that under the umbrella of "closing"?). The other Keystone pipelines are still operating.

There is also news about possibility closing the Line 5 pipeline, but that hasn't happened and he recently indicated that he had no intention of closing it.

Is there another (or multiple other) pipelines that have been shutdown by the administration? A google search only comes up with the Keystone XL and Line 5 pipelines.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by satronaut on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:29AM (#29318929)
"what pipelines did he close?" then you say "A google search only comes up with the Keystone XL and Line 5 pipelines". There's 2 rite there. Oil prices go up, choke supply by closing down 2 pipelines, and then complain/blame trump that prices are going up. Please explain your thought process joebiden.info
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by ncallaway on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:00AM (#29319337)
Keystone XL was (as the previous comment says) not a closure, but preventing new building.

Line 5 is not something Biden closed. How are you counting a pipeline that Biden didn’t close and Biden has no plans to shutdown, as a closure? I don’t understand how you get to 2 closures.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by satronaut on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:24AM (#29319663)
Keystone's construction was shut down. It was going to be operational and now it's not due to an executive order that biden signed day 1 in office. That's shutting down a pipeline.

Line 5 is very much still possible to be shut down due to the democratic party's goal of creating a false energy shortage. Whitmer keeps complaining about it and I'm sure that harris and pelosi will tell biden to cancel it and he'll just go "okay".

joebiden.info

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by 1234letshaveatw on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @01:52PM (#29321650)
Line 5 would impact prices a few cents in Michigan- believe it or not most of the oil goes from Canada, across MI and back into Canada. I'm fine with shutting it down. Canada can run their own "landlocked" pipeline to Sarnia.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by briffle on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @01:36PM (#29321406)
The Trump administration shut down (denied permits and licensing) 3 times for a natural gas import/export Terminal that was going to be built in Coos Bay Oregon, to connect to the 4' pipeline the feeds Oregon and California.

I guess they hate energy too...

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by edaemon on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:48AM (#29319184)
The Keystone XL pipeline has never been operational; you can't close something that never opened. Enbridge Line 5 hasn't closed, and the closure order (which Enbridge has refused to follow) came from the Michigan Governor, not the Biden administration.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by jjallen on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @08:39AM (#29317613)
We don't _need_ to. It is to lower prices that are fairly high and OPEC doesn't want to increase supply. So governments are doing what they can to increase supply and retaliate against OPEC.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by nanis on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:25AM (#29318876)
Depleting reserve capacity does not increase the long term supply curve. When the reserves are depleted, you are back where you started because the supply shocks are real. Production possibilities are down globally due to the destruction wrought by measures where the sole concern is CYA by governments when it comes to COVID19.

An increase in supply would mean more oil available at every price. That can only happen by getting it out of the ground, transporting it to refineries, distributing the resulting product to gas stations etc.

Higher prices in the face of increasing inflation may just maintain the incentives for producers in non-OPEC countries. Releasing reserves, to the extent that it can have an effect, will tend to counteract that incentive.

If this is due to sinister plans of OPEC governments, one must realize that it is certainly within their capacity to wait for the temporary increase in quantity available to dissipate.

Current total U.S. reserves[1] are 605 million barrels. Of which 253 million barrels are sweet.

> In 2020, the United States consumed an average of about 18.19 million barrels of petroleum per day, or a total of about 6.66 billion barrels of petroleum. This was the lowest level of annual consumption since 1995.[2]

According to this[3],

>> Sweet crude oil contains small amounts of hydrogen sulfide and carbon dioxide and it is commonly used for processing into gasoline, kerosene, and high-quality diesel. Before sour crude oil can be refined into gasoline, impurities need to be removed, therefore increasing the cost of processing.

Therefore, it doesn't sound like releasing the sour variety would do much to reduce gas prices.

Putting these facts together, if the U.S. depleted all its sweet reserves in this folly, it would cover about two weeks of consumption.

[1]: https://www.spr.doe.gov/dir/dir.html

[2]: https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=33&t=6

[3]: https://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/glossary/sweet-vs-sou...

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by woodruffw on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:58AM (#29319311)
I don't know enough about the SPR to have opinions about it in particular, but the economic reasoning in this phrase is a little funky:

> Putting these facts together, if the U.S. depleted all its sweet reserves in this folly, it would cover about two weeks of consumption.

The US doesn't need to deplete or even come close to depleting any reserve or resource to depress prices. The strategic timing of this announcement suggests that depressing prices is the real goal anyways: lots of Americans are going to be driving around for the December holidays, and 10-20% lower gas prices can make a difference.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by nanis on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:29AM (#29319742)
According to AAA:

Regular unleaded average price in NY state: $3.566/gal yesterday, $2.218/gal a year ago for a 61% annual increase[1].

If this temporary blip could cause prices to go down by 10% (during a time where demand for other uses for oil are also going up), then prices would be up only 45% from a year ago.

Assuming Biden is releasing the sweet variety that can be readily used to make gasoline, this first step is going to deplete about 20% of the SPR.

How many of those shots does he have?

People who think they can command and control the economy, regardless of the ideological banner they choose for themselves, have caused more misery, poverty, death, and destruction than anyone else. True to form, he is continuing with that.

For NY, this page[2] has figures going back a decade. These are nominal prices. Still, whether inflation adjusted or not, last year was an anomaly. Last October, prices were down 20% from the previous year in line with the depressed economy.

So, if you compare October 2021 with October 2019, nominal gas prices are 30% higher and real prices are 20% higher. On the other hand, in October 2012, gas prices were 43% higher in real terms, so there is that.

Except, in this case, consumers are facing a widespread sustained increase in all prices. 50 cents more for a latte may not mean much to a single person, but 100% increase in the price of fresh produce and almost 80% increase in the prices of meat & poultry have significant effects for a lot of families. And these are the predictable effects we are seeing. It is only going to get worse from here. In terms of historical reference, we are in the mid-60s. We have a long ways to go before we reach the mid-90s.

[1]: https://gasprices.aaa.com/?state=NY

[2]: https://www.nyserda.ny.gov/researchers-and-policymakers/ener...

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by dragonwriter on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @03:00PM (#29322583)
> Depleting reserve capacity does not increase the long term supply curve.

The intent is not to “increase the long term supply curve”, it is to increase short-run supply and mitigate short-term pricing pressure on fuel, and therefore transportation, and therefore all goods and services that are either transported or require the transportation of other people or goods in their supply chain, which is, approximately, everything.

It is an immediate-term effort to prevent additional inflationary pressure from fuel prices. There’s other venues for intermediate and, if necessary, long-term measures to control general inflation.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by nanis on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:50AM (#29319200)
According to this[1]:

> President Biden announced Tuesday that his administration was releasing 50 million barrels of oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve to help combat rising gas prices — hours before millions of Americans are expected to hit the road for Thanksgiving.

[1]: https://nypost.com/2021/11/23/biden-approves-release-of-50m-...

[dead]
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by kibwen on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @09:09AM (#29317975)
India, China, Japan, Korea, and the UK are not doing this to prop up Biden's popularity. Sometimes (nearly every time), a cigar is just a cigar.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by sAbakumoff on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @09:32AM (#29318224)
but sometimes a cigar with 40% approval rating confirms that he is looking for re-election[1] in 2024 right before opening the oil reserve

[1] - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/22/joe-biden-in...

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by hn_throwaway_99 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @09:48AM (#29318397)
Voters barely remember what someone did six months ago. You honestly think they are going to remember, or care, what gas prices were 3 years before an election?
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by sAbakumoff on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @09:59AM (#29318535)
I think that by lowering gas prices he slightly increases probability of "Build Back Better" to be passed because somehow republicans and radical democrats(Manchin and others) were able to couple future spending plans with the current inflation and gas prices and sell this BS to the public.

BBB is a big win for Biden and it could help him and dems in 2022 and 2024.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by treeman79 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:08AM (#29318649)
Losing a war. Leaving hundreds of Americans stranded, people who helped us being slaughtered.

You don’t come back from that.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by jasonlaramburu on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:40AM (#29319068)
Pretty sure that war was lost a long time ago.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by sAbakumoff on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @12:14PM (#29320340)
I thought that Obama actually won this war back in 2012 when they found and killed bin laden, no?
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by hermes8329 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @04:35PM (#29323860)
That was basically the only win in that war
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by trasz on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:38AM (#29319044)
Yeah, paying attention to a a few troubled Americans while ignoring hundreds of thousands of actual victims sounds like typical US mentality.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by hermes8329 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @04:36PM (#29323875)
That war was lost on 2003. Biden finally put a fork in it
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by dTal on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:36AM (#29319018)
All US presidents seek reelection. This narrative has zero explanatory or predictive power.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by sAbakumoff on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:58AM (#29320158)
Biden is 79 years old and he demonstrated some terrible mental health issues at times when he came out of the basement last year. it's not clear why he would seek for reelection given these conditions.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by swarnie on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @09:58AM (#29318519)
You put far too much faith in the American electorate....
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by tomc1985 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:18AM (#29318779)
The government is actually trying to do something for folks and yet they are still ungrateful
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by zthrowaway on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:24AM (#29318857)
By shutting down the keystone pipeline which jump started this mess? The government doesn’t help you. You are just here, they do what is in their best interest. Big daddy government won’t solve your problems.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by tomc1985 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:36AM (#29319015)
How do you extrapolate all that from such a simple statement?
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by fortran77 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @09:21AM (#29318101)
He told Landlords that they can't charge rent anymore -- he should just tell gas stations that they can't sell gas for more than $N/gallon
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by AnthonyMouse on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:34AM (#29319831)
> He told Landlords that they can't charge rent anymore -- he should just tell gas stations that they can't sell gas for more than $N/gallon

I strongly support this idea because the fallout will be so swift and severe that it will teach a generation of people to never do such things again.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by grandmczeb on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @03:38PM (#29323169)
The existing supply of price control failures is quite large. I’m guessing a strategic release of a new example will likely not have much of an impact.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by AnthonyMouse on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @04:12PM (#29323610)
It's pretty obvious that there are a lot of people who don't get it, because in many cases the consequences aren't as easy to see.

You stop landlords from collecting rent, set that precedent, and over the next few years they're going to convert rental properties into condos until rents are high enough to account for the risk of it happening again. Then anyone who can't afford to buy is paying higher rent for a generation or more. But it doesn't happen instantaneously and it's hard to trace directly to the act, so people don't understand.

Set price controls on gas and there immediately won't be gas to buy. That's something everybody is promptly going to notice.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by imtringued on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:40AM (#29319072)
Some people will end up with more gas than they need, others with less. It's a bad idea.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by coryrc on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @03:21PM (#29322897)
GP is well aware of that fact.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by mrtesthah on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:01AM (#29318570)
I’m fine with whatever it takes to finally take down the fossil fuel economy. There’s no more room in the atmosphere for any more additional CO2.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by zthrowaway on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:25AM (#29318872)
If you want to live like it’s 1870 go for it.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by the-dude on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @08:30AM (#29317539)
We already have global conflict. Multiple.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by rblion on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @09:01AM (#29317865)
True. I can't help but wonder when/if WWIII will begin or if it already has...

It almost feels inevitable to be honest. Am I wrong?

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by seanw444 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:00AM (#29318554)
WWIII already began. Using carefully-cut video clips, intentionally misleading articles, and social media platforms increasingly encouraging unrest to pad their bottom line, decreasing their users' attention span, and spying into their users' devices, the factions only need to fight for public opinion in this day in age.

You can convince someone to surrender to you out of spite for their own country, long before you have to point a gun at them nowadays.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by systemvoltage on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:45AM (#29319135)
This gave me chills. Sometimes California feels more pro-China than pro-US. “But man, China is so impressive. They’re so good at governance.” - verbatim quote from a professor I met at UC Berkeley.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by _Understated_ on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:02AM (#29318574)
I've long felt that WWIII will not be fought (initially, anyway) with tanks and bombs and such, but with computers.

What could be more effective for your enemy than taking out all your power stations and plunging your country into total darkness and chaos? Everything would run out in short order and people would turn on each other.

Saves having to mess the place up with bombs and you have plausible deniability within the international community.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by sofixa on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @09:24AM (#29318148)
You aren't necessarily wrong, but IMHO maybe too pessimistic. I don't see a global conflict starting anytime soon due to MAD. Baring another Trump-like person with zero regard for international norms, relations and basically anything, most world leaders at the highest level aren't complete idiots and understand the risks involved.

There are and will still be many localised conflicts, even some which might impact lots of people ( e.g. if the US does end up attacking Iran, it will be a bloodbath with consequences through Europe, Asia and Africa at the very least). Ukraine-Russia, and everyone around ( Belarus, Baltics, Poland) will probably turn out to be an even nastier affair. Israel's apartheid will probably also result in another war.

But a global war is highly unlikely, at least until climate change and other ongoing environmental disasters wipe out too much resources and people ( e.g. poor communities relying on fishing for sustenance being decimated by dropping fish populations and/or deforestation draining major rivers and lakes).

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by roamerz on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:05AM (#29318614)
I would counter that a Trump like person would lead to less chance of war. Countries tend to toe the line better if there is a measuarble chance at retaliation. A Biden like person who's demonstrated incompetance (Afghanistan pullout) and placation (weak stance on China relations) would lead to contries rolling the dice on whether we would retaliate or not. We'll see what happens with China and Taiwan or Russia and Ukraine.

I would also counter that the response to alleged climate change could also spark conflicts which could lead to more encompassing war for example some greenie gets elected to power in Russia and decimates their ability to export energy (similar to current U.S. situation). That would leave many angry people in the cold in the E.U. and lead to unrest and potentially war. That's kind of out there but still within the realm.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by tomc1985 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:22AM (#29318819)
1) The afghanistan pullout is the country keeping a promise that Trump failed to keep that was made long before either Trump or Biden, and it would have been a quagmire to whoever had the guts to actually follow through on it

2) People keep repeating this weak-on-China meme but Biden seems a lot more hawkish on them than people seem to be giving him credit for

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by roamerz on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:41AM (#29319090)
I don’t disagree with keeping the promise at all. Where he completely demonstrated his competence was in the implementation. I am an IT guy and I would have done a much better job.

We’ll see on China. Proof is in action not talk.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by quesera on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @07:18PM (#29325440)
> I am an IT guy and I would have done a much better job.

I'm sure you're a very nice and competent person, but that's a quote for the ages.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by roamerz on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @08:07PM (#29325809)
Or - Dammit Jim I’m an IT guy not Military Strategist! Lol
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by peter422 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:51AM (#29319213)
You’d have done a better job? How so? You have expertise in strategic retreats after 20 years of war?
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by roamerz on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:16AM (#29319585)
My point being that the bar was so low on the implementation that anyone with a shred of intellect could have done a better job. But for the sake of discussion I would have for starters left the military on site until the civilian component was safely out of the country. Don’t need a diploma in strategic retreats to see that.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by miked85 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:13AM (#29319537)
I don't think it takes a military strategic expert to say get civilians out first, then the military and equipment. If you can't take the equipment, destroy it.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by throwaway946513 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:51AM (#29320085)
As far as I can remember - one thing that our military personnel are taught, especially in the field, is how to render equipment inoperable. Which in fact is one of the things we've done with left over equipment there. Source: family of veterans.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by miked85 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @12:34PM (#29320601)
The Taliban paraded driving US military vehicles through the streets, so I don't think we did that. I am sure it is normal procedure to disable equipment in this situation, but nothing about that exit was normal.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by tomc1985 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @01:03PM (#29320975)
Those vehicles were left behind by the Afghani armed forces and were no longer US assets.

Of course, our failure to predict the afghani military's collapse is a huge error but that just proves that even world's best and most well-funded intelligence agency is not foolproof.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by roamerz on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @01:40PM (#29321461)
You can’t tell me with a straight face though that there wasn’t a report on someone’s desk that predicted exactly that - the Afghani military collapse. It was likely buried because it didn’t support whatever narrative was required at the time. So.. well funded? Absolutely and with a cherry on the top. Best? Nope. Way too infused with agendas and politics. No offense to the great people who work there.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by tomc1985 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @04:19PM (#29323688)
They knew it would collapse, just not so quickly.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by yyyk on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @02:56PM (#29322531)
>Of course, our failure to predict the afghani military's collapse...

It was obvious to people who had any inkling of Afghanistan.

First, the US created an Afghani army that was dependent on US weapons and logistics, but stopped helping to maintain it even before the withdrawal was done. What does one expect to happen to an airforce when one stops maintance?

Second, every intelligence estimate predicted the Taliban would eventually win post-withdrawal (since they still got a state to support them), and the Afghanis knew about those estimates. Why should a sane Afghani keep fighting, when they could switch sides and live? To make Biden look better?

Ultimately, there was a political decision to leave Afghanistan, and the intel was adjusted to the decision rather than the other way around.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by selimthegrim on Friday November 26, 2021 @02:27PM (#29353220)
>Second, every intelligence estimate predicted the Taliban would eventually win post-withdrawal (since they still got a state to support them)

Which state would that be?

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by yyyk on Saturday November 27, 2021 @07:58AM (#29359820)
Pakistan, duh. Pakistan-Taliban links were widely known for decades.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by yyyk on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @02:47PM (#29322413)
Every non ideological person would have done a better job. There wouldn't have been a hasty evacuation or the bombing in Kabul, if the army kept Bagram until the withdrawal was done, or if the US had accepted the Taliban's offer to retain Kabul until the withdrawal was done - and that's just the smallest of the tactical failures...
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by selimthegrim on Saturday November 27, 2021 @01:53PM (#29362420)
Those are both poison pills. The army didn't want to be responsible for the security of the entire Kabul area and Bagram to Kabul is not a next door situation.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by lenkite on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @09:22AM (#29318127)
US oil supply dropped precipitously thanks to Covid and the Biden administration's drilling bans on federal lands, offshore drilling restrictions, cancelling oil pipelines and other blockades.

Many folks went bankrupt and US turned from a net Oil exporter to an Oil importer. The Biden administration recently started to reverse their policies in the last few months as oil prices surged. (There was also a court case loss on the federal drilling auction ban)

OPEC merrily took advantage of the state of affairs since high oil prices are good for them. Unfortunately, it will take some time for domestic supply to climb again. To tide over the state of affairs, it makes sense to open the strategic reserve. The Trump administration added 77 million barrels to the strategic reserve when the US was having an oil glut anyways, so its not as if the US doesn't have a safe buffer.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by someguydave on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @09:38AM (#29318279)
In Colorado the incumbent Democrat legislature effectively banned most new oil drilling projects even after a plebiscite on that question failed to pass.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by joshuanapoli on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:02AM (#29318576)
The US supply dropped precipitously because the price was too low for fracing to be consistently profitable. Letting the price rise would help US-based producers invest in more production.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by clashmoore on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @09:52AM (#29318435)
When I look at the SPR weekly levels at https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=W... it doesn't show an increase of 77M barrels. During President Trump's term it fell from 695,118,000 (Jan 22 2016) barrels to 638,085,000 barrels (Jan 15th 2021)

In March of 2020 it went from 634,967,000 to a peak of 656,147,000 in July of 2020, to then fall back.

Unless I did my math incorrectly, where can we find the information about the 77M?

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by lenkite on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:07AM (#29318639)
The drop in Jan 2017 was due to Hurricane Harvey which disrupted foreign crude deliveries. https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08/31/us-taps-strategic-oil...

You are right that it wasn't 77M barrels in 2020 - my bad. I didn't realise that Democrats had blocked funding for that proposed initiative of SPR increase. The Trump administration worked around this by reducing this to ~30 million barrels and awarding storage contracts. This appears to match your figures.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-25/trump-s-t...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-25/funding-t...

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Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by lenkite on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:18AM (#29318774)
If you want civil violence, looting and anarchy on a large scale, your approach is definitely the way to go. It will also likely result in civil war since folks will take up arms to change your preferred policies. The folks with arms and who know how to use them will also likely be the folks who win.

Not that it matters - any administration that lets the economy crash will not stay in power. They will be kicked out .

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by mrtesthah on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:24AM (#29318860)
Oh my, how scary! I guess we just have no choice but to let the earth burn then.

No, none of the things you mentioned would occur if inequality were addressed and the newly scaled-down economy were appropriately retargeted to meet peoples’ basic needs first and foremost.

It’s called degrowth.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by lenkite on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:28AM (#29318918)
I wish you the best of luck on your socialist utopia of de-growth.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by mrtesthah on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:36AM (#29319012)
It’s only a matter of time—-humanity has the choice to accept degrowth voluntarily now, at a time when it can be safely managed, or have it be forced by the circumstances of our natural world a few decades from now.

Or are you one of those who believe that economic laws will somehow override physical laws? Because physical limits exist, and we are hitting them.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by zsz on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @12:30PM (#29320550)
Seems to me that economic inequality would be the best facilitator of de-growth. If you could send the entire middle class into poverty ASAP, you could maximize de-growth overnight. Add a few draconian rules here and there, re-introduce good old rule of man principles, along with public executions to keep the upstarts in check, and you can have yourself a semi-permanent utopia of de-growth.

Take for example North Korea (among the most advanced places in the world right now, in terms of comprehensive de-growth policies): with their ~540 kWh electricity consumption and just .71t CO2 per capita emission (compared to USA: 11.8 MWh and 15.12t CO2), they are experts in the field of de-growth that all other modern societies should endeavor to emulate.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by mrtesthah on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @11:41AM (#29331881)
The goal is to decrease the size of the economy while simultaneously increasing the quality of life for the majority of people on the planet. Most people already work in useless jobs (e.g., marketing, administration, etc.), and a shutdown of most extractive industries would give people substantially more free time. We can thank capitalism and technology for today’s high productivity level, but we need a properly functioning welfare/UBI system to take actually advantage of it, and so the global distribution of wealth will will need to change to ensure peoples’ basic needs are met.

Addressing inequality is similarly important for halting the rise of political authoritarianism (as it grows in reaction to the former), which is an obstacle to all these changes.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by sershe on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @12:32PM (#29320567)
What are you basing this on? The most dire (serious, i.e. IPCC) forecasts I've seen so far are a few percent of global GDP lost due to climate change. Global GDP grows by 3-4% in normal years recently, so the "forced degrowth" would be an equivalent of just 2-4 years of stagnation.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by lenkite on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:43AM (#29319117)
This would be an interesting discussion, especially with space exploration and recycling tech fitted into the future picture, but not appropriate for the current topic.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by colinmhayes on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @12:18PM (#29320393)
Oil prices are still too cheap. Using oil has huge externalities, it's time consumers paid them. Good luck to the idiots who try to shoot the government.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by dpierce9 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:04AM (#29319397)
Gas (RBOB) is a refined product. The SPR is crude. There is obviously a relationship between them but it is a complex, laggy function of refinery capacity, distribution, etc. It will at least effect spot crude prices at the relevant delivery points.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by LostInTheWoods on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:37AM (#29319037)
To put this in perspective, US daily oil consumption is 18 million barrels. So a 50 million barrel release from the strategic reserve is less than a 3 day supply.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by djrogers on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:24AM (#29319664)
It’s not even that:

“ Of the total 32 million barrels will be an exchange over the next several months, while 18 million barrels will be an acceleration of a previously authorized sale “

So it’s a single day’s supply.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by groby_b on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @12:50PM (#29320813)
Let's ask the government agency responsible for maintaining the strategic petroleum reserve: https://www.energy.gov/fecm/strategic-petroleum-reserve-9

"This is equivalent to approximately 1,069 days of supply of total U.S. petroleum net imports."

Sounds like it might affect market prices if the government decides to use it to lower the price.

As for accurate media reporting... has that ever happened? On anything?

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by nradov on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @01:59PM (#29321753)
Comparing the SPR size to imports is meaningless. The US obtains most of our crude oil from domestic wells.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by groby_b on Sunday November 28, 2021 @11:29AM (#29370196)
Net imports: 7.8 MMb/d Net consumption: 18.1 MMb/d

So, we get slightly more than half from domestic wells. (We could fully cover it if we choose not to export)

But either way, that means the SPR still covers ~500 days of consumption. Still sizable enough to impact the market significantly, I'd say

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by Izkata on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @11:48AM (#29320039)
> Has it got bigger?

Yep: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves_in_the_United_S...

Doesn't look like enough on its own to justify a change in reporting that much though.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by ericmay on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @07:54AM (#29317206)
Here’s some info on consumption [1]. But this is basically politics at its peak b/c when Biden runs for reelection he’ll need it as a talking point. The “strategic reserve” is something Americans have latched on to as an idea. They won’t look at the numbers. His opponent won’t either. It’s just showbiz.

[1] https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/steo/report/global_oil.php

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by syshum on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @08:44AM (#29317681)
The talking point only works if has the effect of actually lowering prices DURING the election.

he is pulling this trigger way to early if he expects to use it as a 2022 talking point as any positive price effects this causes will likely be exhausted by then, and he systemic failures of macro economic policies will likely make things much worse by 2022 elections anyway.

This is bad all the way around

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by lenkite on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @09:33AM (#29318235)
The Biden administration is also backing off on drilling bans on offshore/federal lands and begun to hastily approve pipelines. They have now realised the basic economic principle that lack of supply with increasing demand causes a price surge. All the anti-oil & gas stuff that they announced with great fanfare is being quietly reversed.

It will take several months but I guess Oil prices should be sorted by 2022 elections.

(Please note that the US is fully capable of being a net Oil exporter at any time - it usually takes stupid policies to cause such a situation)

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by remarkEon on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @01:22PM (#29321209)
They've also approved an auction for 80 million acres to Oil & Gas companies.[1] I can't find anything about how the auction went, but this seems to be quietly buried in the news cycle. It was the largest auction of this kind in history.

[1]https://www.newsweek.com/biden-admin-set-auction-off-over-80...

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by kesselvon on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @12:39PM (#29320672)
Except none of that is going to affect near or medium term gas prices. The current spike is driven by high global demand and OPEC production cuts during the pandemic.

That's why gas prices are rising globally.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by sershe on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @12:36PM (#29320618)
> The Biden administration is also backing off on drilling bans on offshore/federal lands and begun to hastily approve pipelines.

Do you happen to have sources for this? I am asking as a supporter of these policies, but I've never heard of this happening recently. I wanna know what to follow for future reference :)

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by lenkite on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @12:40AM (#29327226)
This has been in the news lately. Despite multiple attempts by various Democrats to block the Line 3 pipeline in Minnesota, the current administration is going forward with the same. Quite a different stance from when they shutdown the Keystone XL Phase-4 pipeline at the beginning of the year. Biden has also eased out on offshore drilling. (auction for 80 million acres of federal waters in the Gulf of Mexico).

* https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/biden-administration...

* The Line 3 pipeline will be able to carry 760,000 barrels a day of Canadian oil from North Dakota to Wisconsin

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by ericmay on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @09:03AM (#29317900)
> The talking point only works if has the effect of actually lowering prices DURING the election.

Well it’ll maybe help the midterms but it will be something to reference during the upcoming election. This stuff plays out over years and no doubt Republicans will bring it up and Biden will say “I released the reserves” and if gas prices go down then he can claim a victory and action.

When the Presidential elections happen they reference things during the entire presidency not just like the last 6 months or so.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by JPKab on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @09:48AM (#29318395)
It's too late already.

I get what you were saying but the emotion and anger are going to be what people remember not what he did or said.

He's tried to serve two masters and he can't. Either you stick to your guns on making climate change the priority and you accept the fact that the public is going to be pissed at you when energy prices are much higher, or you simply focus on reducing energy prices at the expense of the climate.

There is no middle ground on this. He's trying to find one and is going to fail. Prices will not be reduced and opening up the reserve will piss off the environmentalists.

Let's be honest here: He doesn't really seem to be all there does he? At moments he is fully lucid and clearly in command but then at others he is asked about the same things he just spoke about a day before and says completely different things that sound like they were cooked up by his advisors. It reminds me of the way George w Bush behaved when he was being manipulated and advised by Karl Rove and company. The one difference is Biden's advanced age has made him come off even weirder. At times he has that behavior of a confused old man who lashes out in anger.

Most of my family lives in Virginia and all of them except for my father voted for Biden and then voted for Glenn Youngkin as governor. They are working class people and have developed an increasing contempt for the Democratic party they voted for 12 months ago. They voted for him because they wanted normalcy and he's instead embraced the radicals who advise him. I have both Latino and Filipino in laws, and he has lost all of them.

I've been a member of the Democratic party for over 20 years and this man has destroyed the entire brand. He's allowed Florida to be completely taken over by the GOP. He never should have run and the party never should have engineered the primary to cement his victory. He's too old and we all know it even if many of us won't admit it.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by ericmay on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @09:59AM (#29318546)
Hey definitely agree or sympathize with a lot of points here.

> I've been a member of the Democratic party for over 20 years and this man has destroyed the entire brand

Idk if I'd lay the blame solely at his feat, but in my view the incestiuous nature of the Democrats (running both Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden) speaks volumes. There's no doubt in my mind Joe Biden loses the next election no matter who the Republicans run. If the Democrats were smart they'd run someone else.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by JPKab on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:25AM (#29318883)
I always assumed he was only running for 1 term. The pandemic unfortunately gave the Party elites full justification to hide the extent of Biden's decline from the public by giving a legitimate reason for him to not campaign. Campaigns are exhausting endeavors, and in the past have served as an informal filter to identify those who lack the physical and mental stamina to do the job.

I used to do work in the Center for American Progress on a weekly basis. I know a lot of folks high up in the party (I did a lot of work for Obama's campaigns in 2008 and 2012), and let me be clear: NONE OF THEM think he's running again. And I'm talking about over a dozen people I know. If he runs again, it will be a shock to me. They were saying this before he even got elected. In the eyes of the Dem machine, he was always a one term option. They couldn't tell the public that, because like all party machines, they don't like or respect the voters.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by matwood on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:30AM (#29318940)
Veering way off topic now, but Biden's only hope IMO is if the GOP runs Trump again. The Democrats may coalesce around hate for Trump, but otherwise will likely be crushed in 2024.

Also agree with your point about incestuous nature and quite frankly the self-owns Democrats do. Attacking other democrats who aren't woke enough, while the GOP is masterful at uniting the voter base around a couple key issues like abortion and guns (though the GOP has seen a bit of internal divide with Trump). Biden had an EV summit and only invited the top UAW staffed companies leaving out TSLA. Think what you want about TSLAs valuation and Elon, but how can anyone in the US have an EV summit and leave them out? Stuff like this is what sours middle of the road democrat voters. It's like the democrats want to lose elections.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by AnimalMuppet on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @12:40PM (#29320676)
Well... the Republicans are also doing self-owns rather a lot lately. It's almost like both sides are trying to lose. (Or maybe it's like both sides have drunk their own kool-aid.)
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by syshum on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:44AM (#29319127)
>>though the GOP has seen a bit of internal divide with Trump

Not really, the "Never Trumpers" in the past were called RINO's by most of the base anyway, they did not see eye to eye on most issues with the conservative base of the republican party.

Infact I would say post trump the RINO / neocon wing if the Republican party LOST power, not gained any, as many of the would get an assist from libertarians that vote with republicans, however that wing of the part lost most of them as well.

GOP is probably more unified today than it has been in a long time from what I can see

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by remarkEon on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @01:24PM (#29321233)
The "Never Trumpers" in the GOP also include all of the remaining people on planet earth who still, to this day, think the Iraq war was a good idea. Not exactly convincing spokesmen.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by pow_pp_-1_v on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:54AM (#29319247)
> Most of my family lives in Virginia and all of them except for my father voted for Biden and then voted for Glenn Youngkin as governor. They are working class people and have developed an increasing contempt for the Democratic party they voted for 12 months ago. They voted for him because they wanted normalcy and he's instead embraced the radicals who advise him. I have both Latino and Filipino in laws, and he has lost all of them.

I am genuinely curious here: What did he do wrong? Which radicals advice did he listen to?

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by JPKab on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @09:31AM (#29318210)
Yes it is.

To put this in perspective as far as it's futility, in 2019 the United States was producing over 12 million barrels of oil a DAY.

Opening up strategic reserves to reduce fuel prices undermines whatever reasoning he had to halt all new oil and gas leases on Federal land. My neighbor, a welder in the natural gas industry, was laid off early this year due to the freeze on new leases. Biden just does whatever his team tells him to do that minute. I voted for him, but I've never in my life felt more regret for voting for someone.

He was supposed to be a moderate Democrat which is what I've always voted for. He's a radical but with less conviction. The team around him oscillate between ivory tower detachment and radical activism that is out of touch with the public.

As a result he's going to undergo a policy which will succeed only in making the US less prepared for a disaster requiring the reserve. Fuel prices won't really be dented much. CO2 emissions will still go into the atmosphere so nobody wins except for activists who think it's okay if oil comes from another place but not from here. And my neighbor across the street is still out of work when there are numerous wildcatters who could employ him if they could start drilling with the now high prices making them very profitable. They can't due to the lease freeze and he's still out of work. And the CO2 is still going into the atmosphere one way or another.

All of it is just theater to please radical activists like my father who never heard a MSNBC talking point he didn't parrot.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by ericd on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @09:47AM (#29318378)
While I’m disappointed that we’re opening up the strategic reserve, and I wish your neighbors weren’t out of work, the rest of what you’re complaining about all sounds sensible to me. To continue to maintain the status quo is frankly suicidal. Oil and gas prices should be much higher than they are. The current cost to remove the CO2 from a gallon of gas using direct air capture is something like $6-9. It will be a painful realignment, but there’s no way people will reorganize in the ways that they must if gas remains at $2-3/gallon.
[dead]
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by ericd on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:44AM (#29319128)
The person that’s out of touch is the person you made up in your head. Obviously it’s politically unpopular. I’m not saying we should drop a $9/gallon tax on gas. Just pointing out that that’s what it currently costs to undo the damage that that gallon does via one method of carbon sequestration (the one with the fewest trade-offs).

But if we did implement a carbon tax, I’d hope it was coupled with rebates from the revenue to make it non-regressive. It could be made such that yearly rebates could offset the higher gas prices for those driving the average amount, while it becomes much more expensive to fly, which would impact the wealthy more.

No one is advocating for allowing families to starve. That’s actually one of the major reasons to try to combat climate change, to prevent widespread famine.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by JPKab on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:06AM (#29318630)
These people just love them some social engineering. At the heart of it is a firm belief that if THEY had been the dictator instead of Stalin, they could have created paradise. They just need control. And when they get it, and things start to fall apart, the reason is always that they don't have ENOUGH control. It's not their policies failing, it's the lack of faith by your neighbors. "Blame them, they are the enemy. I can create utopia, but only if your neighbors stop complaining and demonstrate faith."

It's just narcissism from laptop bubble boys.

Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by ericd on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @12:09PM (#29320279)
I don’t think a market-based solution pricing in externalities would be the approach of choice for any Soviet dictator… What would be your proposal for how to avoid >2 degrees C?
[dead]
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by ericd on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:56AM (#29319271)
I actually agree, we should put up more trade barriers that favor local manufacturing, in the form of a carbon tax. It would naturally make local/distributed manufacturing more cost competitive with foreign. Manufactured goods would get more expensive, but much of that increase would be going to the blue collar set in the US, they’d get a lot more leverage to push for higher wages. And a large portion of the tax should be distributed back to people to make it so it doesn’t end up being regressive.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by trasz on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:24AM (#29318852)
Nice story, but China is also building nuclear like crazy. The US doesn’t.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by throwawaylinux on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @08:20AM (#29317444)
What would the talking point be?
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by ovi256 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @08:26AM (#29317498)
If the price goes down: "I opened the strategic oil reserve to lower the price for you!" If it doesn't: "I opened the strategic oil reserve to stop the price going higher for you!"
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by ckdarby on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @08:32AM (#29317558)
If it goes up: "Imagine how much higher the price would have been if I hadn't opened the strategic oil reserves!"
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by Rury on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:32AM (#29318966)
If he hadn't: "How come he didn't do anything to save prices when he could of at least tapped into the strategic oil reserves?"
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by throwawaylinux on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @08:33AM (#29317566)
I mean in 2 years from now after the tap is turned off and prices have adjusted accordingly.
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by tata71 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @08:26AM (#29317499)
"Pollution is icky, but you Republicans can still trust me to crank oil out of our ground."
Re:U.S. to release oil from reserves in coordination with ot... by sAbakumoff on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @09:09AM (#29317978)
He is trying to disconnect his BBB bill from inflation and gas prices to sell it to the public. BBB is the last thing that he would be able to do, so he is trying his best.