Deprogramming is part of the process of quitting to smoke. I do now never want to smoke. It is not attractive to me as a way to relax or focus. I can stand in a tobacco section of an airport taxfree shop holding a 5 cartons in my hands with absolutely no desire to smoke. Likewise for being around other people who smoke. There is no creeping need, no urge.
The deprogramming comes last. When it came around for me, it was gradual but it did definitely come. There is no way, not a chance in the world that I would somehow "relapse". It just is not interesting to me any more.
EDIT: *On slaying the dragon*
I want to add the timeframes, which could be useful as anecdotal data.
It took me 9 months after my last cigarette to get rid of the "critical urges". Then after that it took another 12 months to get rid of the sweet itch I would get. After that period it was gone completely, and I mean absolutely completely. It was an exorcism. To anyone trying to quit smoking; know this, if you fight through it, it all does go away.
For the first year after stopping regularly smoking, I still felt the urge when drinking, and sometimes would have a cigarette with drinks on the weekend. After two years, I mostly stopped even wanting that.
For many years after, cigarette smoke still smelled good to me, although I had no daily urge for one. But eventually even the positive association with the smell faded, and now I'm back to the original state of thinking cigarettes smell bad.
Nicotine's hooks run deep, but they're not permanent. Stay away long enough and you'll eventually make it back to wondering why anyone smokes in the first place.
I think it's important for people who are addicted to know that quitting is possible — you aren't permanently rewired. And it doesn't have to consume your life.
I'm addicted to nicotine, though not cigarettes (though I do smoke on social ocasions, but the nicotine in just one cigarette available in the EU does nothing for me), and I've "quit" numerous times for months, but my (undiagnosed) ADHD brings me back to it.
It is such a perverse stimulant.
I've taken hardcore stimulants and never got addicted, but nicotine has such a small half-life that it's impossible to not get addicted.
While I'm on more powerful stimulants I don't need nicotine to do my work(in fact I can go without if I don't have to work).
I suspect if you're using enough nicotine that you can't feel the effect of a cigarette, you're probably using a lot more than I was getting from smoking. I'm not sure if my advice is equally useful for you, but I hope you manage to kick the addiction cycle at some point.
I gave up after 20 years of pretty much constant smoking. I will cave and have one with a friend who still smokes while drinking once in a while. Not perfect but better than smoking a pack a day.
The long-term health consequences don't feel real when you're young. It's easy to dismiss, even if you logically understand the risks.
The expense is not a problem. Utterly unimportant.
The addictive aspect is a subtle beast. It creeps up on you slowly. At first, smoking is a great, fun thing to do every once in a while. It's a great, fun thing to do with friends. Slowly, every once in a while turns into every day. Then, a few times a day. Now you need a cigarette to start the day right. You try to cut back and only then realize you're addicted.
I have smoked about 5 cigarettes in my life, also when drinking as a young adult. It was honestly unpleasant for me; the feeling of hot smoke in my lungs was definitely not a natural taste to me.
I have always thought that people powered through the initial distaste for smoke to fit in, and then they acquired a taste for it (or became addicted and thus associated the smoke in the lungs with the nicotine rush, not sure).
Was I wrong? Did that first cigarette feel amazing to you? Was the first drag a pleasant feeling? Genuinely curios!
Smoking never made sense to me until I spent some time in an English winter. It warms the air up when it’s so cold it hurts to breathe. The nicotine feels nice as well.
I only ever smoked a few times though. It started to feel normal and I took this warning sign to heart and stopped forever.
Also if you hate smoke smell like I did, you tend to smoke wrongly and fail to fill your lungs with smoke. In that case you wouldn't even get the "buzz" of the cigarette while still feeling bad smell.
i smoked for 8 years then switched to vaping. i don't want to vape for the rest of my life, but there was an obvious difference in my fitness as soon as i quit (e.g. being able to run twice as far without stopping). i also smell better and my teeth are whiter. i'm glad that i switched, but it doesn't share the same ritual feeling when you can just pull a drag at any arbitrary time.
I’d pay for an addictive product that gave me that back without killing me!
Taking many smoke breaks per day - no problem. Standing in the office kitchen for 5 minutes with a fresh coffee "why aren't you working" in voiced form or just the looks.
In some companies we just made "team smoke breaks" with non-smokers randomly joining, either to chat or continue discussing work and I felt that was the best solution (unless people wanted to be alone for 5 minutes). Either you have stuff to talk about anyway or depending on the ratio of smokers to non-smokers there was some form of interaction.
Was incredibly awkward (due to the addiction) and in hindsight incredibly shortsighted on behalf of the company due to how productivity works.
Now most of my inspiration comes from taking breaks.
Maybe I'm making up false assumptions, but coincidentally, those coworkers were the smartest one in my mind. I don't think cigarette had anything to do with this, but I'm somehow convinced that going outside 10-15min multiple times a day is an excellent for productivity and to build strong working (and personal) relationships.
COVID WFH apart, now that I'm working with non smokers, I really miss those times and as much as I appreciate my current coworkers, I don't like them as much as I used to like my fellow smokers.
If you are a non smoker working with smokers you appreciate talking to, try going outside with them. Smoker's pause is where everything is said without filter and where hierarchy really disappears.
Already when studying/researching at Uni having a cup of coffee together did serve as such a communal break, catching up, etc. When I did an abroad term in Canada what hit me by surprise is that people would get take-away coffee and would ONLY drink it at their desks browsing Facebook. As a European it didn't take me long to find a Dutch guy who had the same feeling about joint coffee breaks and we became buddies.
Smoke breaks are fast, usually outdoors, and limited by the short burn time of a cigarette the moment someone lights up. It's (IMO) a different social function, which is something I didn't appreciate until I lived with a smoker.
Don't get me wrong- I'm not saying smoking is a good habit to have. Only that I have a new appreciation for what 'smoke breaks' are as their own unique sort of socialization. Having a drink together, it's just not the same.
I don't think I've ever heard a cigarette smoker comment on the taste of their cigarette (cigars are the exception here) and the high, especially for regular smokers, is near non-existent. So for cigarettes the initial appeal is much less obvious.
I'd assume most people start smoking due to social pressure/trying to fit in.
smoking was a good social lubricant as well. you can see that in the old Hollywood movies and in real life back when smoking was the social norm.
I’ve definitely described the flavor of my cigarettes. I switched to my current brand because I liked the flavor more than my previous brand, which I described as having no flavor (and of course it did, just not flavor I found offputting), which was preferable to previous brands I’d smoked. I’m leaving out brand names here mostly because this is a way we reinforce our addiction and I don’t want to give anyone inspiration to try something else.
I have only once smoked to address social pressure. I was 12 at the time, I hated it, no one pressured further. When I started smoking of my own volition, I was 15. I did it privately out of curiosity because I was terribly bored. I didn’t like it, then I did it out of habit. It happened like that.
A similar example is mineral water:
I have preferences around which mineral water I drink. I even dislike waters very high in minerals and will only have them if there is no choice. But in the end water is just something I drink to satisfy a physical craving; it is not something I will consume as part of a gourmet experience (although some 'artisan waters' have tried to market themselves that way...).
You won't hear many smokers say things like: "OMG have you tried the new XYZ cigarettes? The subtle flavours of tar and nicotine are just to die for!" (and the same is true for water) There's also no 'craft cigarettes' market, or cigarette tasting tours and whatnot.
To this day, I sometimes smell a nearby cigarette, and it smells good to me.
Alcohol hangs around because it was accessible in earlier eras. There will come a time, I suspect in the very near future, when it will look ridiculous. Where having a `drink' will be an anachronism.
Essentially the chance of dying in a given year due to alcohol if this were anything like a random chance is around 1 in 2000 whereas the chance of dying from smoking is around 1 in 77.
This is something like the difference in danger in riding a motorcycle 100 miles and base jumping.
Of course its not random at all whereas taking up smoking is extremely likely to result in becoming a life long smoker and suffering the average ill effects its perfectly possible for most people to enjoy a sane amount of alcohol infrequently.
Consumption of intoxicants of some variety seems to have been a feature of humanity for the entirety of human history. The expulsion of smoker from reasonable things to be in human society has only happened after we realized its predictable massive effect on human health. There just will never be the same impetus with alcohol.
This sounds right enough, but can you cite your sources for it?
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/01/180109214939.h...
> At least 61 per cent of people who try their first cigarette become, at least temporarily, daily smokers, suggests an analysis of survey data by Queen Mary University of London.
This is actually stronger than the original statement. A substantial minority who even try smoking become smokers.I think it ought to be considered a given that people who smoke are physiologically addicted to nicotine. Having many relatives who smoke currently or have in the past. Smoking in America has been so pervasive that most of us likely have direct knowledge of smoking by either smoking having family members who smoke.
Virtually everyone who smokes for any reasonable duration will become addicted is a statement about step two and asserting that n is somewhere near 100% based on knowing a plethora of smokers, hearing about how smoking effected them, and watching their struggles to quit and reading about the physiological effects of smoking. It isn't a very scientific analysis and I'm open to more clear numbers if you have them.
Going to the other end percentage who have tried smoking. This is harder to pin down because tobacco use by youth is illegal and its hard to ask kids to be honest about breaking the law even when its supposed to be anonymous. It looks like between 20%-30% self report trying tobacco in school here and in France although I wouldn't be terribly surprised if this was substantially wrong. Not as wrong as 95% is though.
I suspect you like most people don't really closely associate with enough people from your school days to be called a useful sample, you don't actually know how many of them tried nicotine products, and you don't know how many of them ultimately spent some of their life smoking. What you have tried to do is make a rough estimate of how many people you know and tried to bring to mind the ones you had seen smoking.
It's not shocking that a large portion of people that try a very addictive and at one time socially acceptable drug have gone on to become addicted.
From the abstract:
New research has overturned the dogma that cigarette
addiction takes years to develop. Studies of adolescent
smokers show that symptoms of addiction, such as
withdrawal, craving for cigarettes and failed attempts at
quitting, can appear within the first weeks of smoking.
To account for these findings, scientists have developed
a new theory positing that the brain quickly develops
adaptations that counter the effects of nicotine. These
adaptations lead to withdrawal symptoms when the effects
of nicotine wear off. The results highlight the
importance of boosting government funding for antismoking
campaigns, particularly those aimed at youngsters.
Turns out it's really hard to ban something you can make in a 20 gallon drum from yeast and sugar.
It seems quite likely that absent all of these, smoking would still be as popular as it ever was.
If people drink like a normal smoker smokes its considered a problem. If your having a couple morning drinks and taking shot breaks at work people would view that as extreme, yet that was/is a norm for smokers.
The thing is that its not so much explicitly smoking, but cigarettes that are the major problem. Cigarettes have so many additives and distort the natural tobacco to enhance the addiction that they themselves create the bulk of the smoking related issues. Using a natural tobacco product at the same frequency as normal / social drinking wouldn't have nearly the terrible health impacts as what happens to typical cigarette smokers and would likely be seen in a similar vein were it not for the negative attention brought on by cigarettes.
Why do you think this? It seems an extremely puritan outlook, I'm a bit sceptical that puritanism is saleable without enforcement of society-wide religious norms. Smoking, sure, but smoking is not at all like alcohol consumption.
MD, mushrooms (and acid et al) are far too powerful (yes, you can take very small doses, but in general). To look at it coldly, they're just not at all practical, regardless of them having, I would say, far fewer direct negative health effects. Indirectly though, things that immediately change people's mental state to such a degree are I would say more dangerous than alcohol.
With alcohol, I can go and have a small amount with family or friends or colleagues, for a short period of time. I can do it home, with a meal. And the actual drinking of it is core. It's not like taking one the above drugs: I take the drug then I am mentally altered to a large degree, possibly for a long period of time. In the case of a selfish drug, like cocaine or an amphetamine, I can function, and the effects a shorter, but there's no social aspect. The actual sitting down with others to spend time imbibing is central.
Cannabis obviously has this in common, so I think that's a very fair comparison. And just to stay on topic, so does tobacco. It's not just the effect of the drug that's attractive, it's [what I think is fair to say is] the social ritual associated with it. It helps that taking those isn't quick (it's not just slipping a pill), that's a feature.
No it is not magnitudes more addictive. Alcohol is extremely addictive, 1 in 12 Adults in the US has an alcohol problem [1] and withdrawal can literally kill you, unlike nicotine.
Notably 90% of Americans have drank alcohol at some point without becoming addicts which one can't be said of nicotine.
That year, not some point in their lives.
Nicotine is very addictive, but it's not an order of magnitude (10x) more addictive than alcohol.
1 in 12 being 6% seems fairly accurate and supportable
What could be possibly so special about this year that you're so adamant to talk about it?
Also, nice website, definitely not partisan.
If you don't like that source Here is the NIH [1] in 2019 saying 5.3% have AUD, slightly lower stat but it is including 12 year olds.
I consume Alcohol and accept the health risks, but it is a hell of a drug and highly addictive.
1. https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/brochures-and-fact-sh...
> This year
Your other points aside (I agree, they should probably at least include some citations to their statistics), this article is from 2015, so I don't think anyone is making it about 2020/covid other than you.
Almost everyone who smokes to any degree becomes addicted and a regular user. Tens (100 million+) of millions of Americans drink occasionally with no addiction.
Alcohol is a dangerous drug in every dimension, and I specifically said that. But their addiction profiles are dramatically different.
[0] https://www.businessinsider.com.au/most-addictive-substances...
Of course, 1/4 is still a HUGE amount of people, and an absolute health crisis.
On the other hand for alcohol, I know a lot of people who will have a glass of wine whenever they go to a nice restaurant yet are not addicted.
So there's a magnitude of difference. Nicotine is significantly more addictive for anyone who uses it semi regularly whereas alcohol is not as addictive in that case.
Okay, now exclude people who did that as children, an experience after which they had zero access to cigarettes. That same survey if demanding an adult experience would be much, much closer.
Everyone has a "Jimmy lit up a smoke and I took a drag and coughed my guts out when I was 9" story.
Overwhelmingly people either had a problem smoking (one that they had to quit through extreme effort), or they never smoked cigarettes at all as adults.
The one "exception" I can recall is a "social" smoker who would tell everyone that she controlled it by only smoking when she drank/at social events, a consequence of which was that she sought drinking opportunities at every venue. She was a problem smoker that turned it into also being a problem drinker.
I'm some kind of introvert, if i hang out with people, my social "battery" drains and i get tired. I smoke because it gives me much more time before my social "battery" is empty. I don't smoke otherwise.
Right now i'm at two packs a year.
There is no standardized addiction metric. The product, the dosage, age of user, and social habits matter significantly. Alcohol is extremely addictive and habit forming it kills 95,000 people a year in the US. I think it is disingenuous to dismiss it is as orders of magnitude less addictive than nicotine.
Most people can smoke a Cigar without becoming addicted to nicotine and a regular user. In the same way most people who are exposed to alcohol in the US don't get addicted.
Nicotine forms a physiological addiction much faster, and then the addict has to have a fix daily, several times. So the exposure to nicotine (which is mildly toxic in the quantities needed) and smoke (which is way more dangerous, and hits the lungs directly) is much more intense and sustained.
Second, it's the anti-stress effect. When you take a hit, you concentrate on your breath. It's like a mini mindfulness moment. Under stressful situations at work I used to do it by myself (even walked out of the office to not be seen). Then I did not care and started smoking outside with the rest of coworkers. This combined the anti-stress with the social effects.
In the meantime, addiction kicks in. You don't get any pleasure any more, but you cannot leave it.
I am currently on an average of 6 cigarettes/day, but it's only because I do not smoke at home or weekends. Only on workdays, so really around 9-10 cigarettes/workday.
Once you get used to it, it's an amazing social tool -- making new friends/acquaintances becomes a piece of cake. I travelled a lot for work and, as a smoker, I would instantly integrate with the other smokers. It's just something fun that leads to pursuing other social activities together. I've seen ADHD mentioned in this thread and that makes sense, the habit as "something to do" is a powerful grip on top of the chemical addiction.
Source: Me. Smoked for 15 years. Stopped 6 years ago.
It’s not worth it and the advantages are mostly fake, insignificant or easily replaceable but you only see that if you quit smoking. Just like you have to quit smoking to notice how bad it smells.
Deprogramming is part of the process of quitting to smoke. I do now never want to smoke.
First I want to say I don't want you to start smoking again, nor go through something painful. I will admit I have a habit of being negative about things-- so I can't help but to wonder, because you sound so confident.
Would you say that in the time you quit smoking you experienced a time where "The chips were down" so to say? I'm not talking about something small. Im talking things got real real. Cause that's usually when the switch appears.
Again--to those that tried to stop completely, and failed, maybe cut way back?
I have never been successful at quitting anything.
Diets have failed. Drinking abstinance has failed.
What worked though is drastically cutting back.
Ok, I was never a two pack a day smoker. I couldn't even imagine it.
I did smoke though.
That said, I cut way back.
Cut back to a few cigarettes a week.
I use rolling papers, and only buy one pack of cigarettes every few weeks. (probally 6 week interval, but I don't like to think about it). I roll tiny bits of tobacco into a paper, and smoke it, when I get that urge. Only when I get the urge.
I can't recommend it because the research on smoking a little bit of tobacco is fuzzy.
What I feel is wrong with most methods of stopping any substance, including food, and booze, is telling the brain you will never have this again.
As my grandfather told me so many times, moderation my son.
(I am not very successful in any part of my life, but smoke no more than three packs a year.)
I quit something myself and have felt much the same way, but I eventually had a string of very stressful events in my life that resulted in me seeking comfort in my old addiction.
Some things happen once a year, so it takes quite a bit to get around to repeating them, feeling the urge, recognizing that you're learning how to do the activity without smoking, resisting for a bit and treating it as an important new learning experience, and then proceeding to the next one.
After learning how well it worked for me for coffee (something I thought I could never ever do without smoking), I was confident it will work for everything else that causes a trigger.
Well, except for alcohol, since it removes inhibition barriers. I was very careful with alcohol for the first year.
Still working on cigarettes.
If it's the latter, would you care to expand?
i do not want to go through that again though.
Patches, lozenges, gums, the little ball tablet things, herbal cigs, e-cig - not the current vape kind, the early 2000s fake cig kind, will power exercises, social support group, pay into my piggy bank to smoke each cig … you get the idea but nothing worked for me and i tried everything on the market.
The problem wasn’t just that i enjoyed smoking, i was actually born to be a smoker. I say that because other people, even most smokers, hate passive cig smoke to varying degrees but i always loved it from a young age, like really loved being near someone smoking, the smell of a cig being smoked just smelled great. Stale smoke didn’t, i hated that like everyone else.
And then i gave up, in one day, and my feeling has never changed since. You couldn’t pay me to smoke, it’d be like paying someone to drink petrol, there’s just no one would do that, it’s an absurd idea.
I don’t mind being near smokers, i don’t enjoy the smell anymore but I’m not repulsed either. I never consider them, it’s just not a part of my identity. I’m not a smoker.
The difference is subtle, is that i don’t have to smoke anymore. When i was a smoker i had to smoke but today I don’t.
Allen Carr’s Easyway book. I don’t mind admitting i actually cried reading it. 3.5 years of misery solved painlessly with zero effort. I couldn’t believe how easy it was to quit, after all the crap i had been through.
But once I quit, well, your “pay me to drink petrol” analogy is accurate. Its been this way for about 10 years now. I just don’t smoke, it’s now repulsive to me, and there’s almost no conceivable way for me to go back to it other than putting myself through the punishment of the early smoker again where it’s just disgusting and doesn’t feel good at all for several weeks.
Read "The Book" and six months later, quit cold turkey.
I've been out with smokers since who have felt guilty about having one and I've proven a point by lighting their fags for them.
No way do I want or need to smoke.
I'm a non-smoker and have been for over a decade.
If you smoke, read "The Book". Twice. Stop when you're ready.
I tell people that quitting is simultaniously the easiest and the hardest thing I have ever done. I haven't had any urge to start smoking again. I've been drunk since, had very stressful times, etc. But I've never felt in danger of slipping back into the habit. 5 years now :-)
Smoking is one of the few things that changes your status by simply doing it: from being a John Doe you become a smoker.
«The smoker simultaneously injects and excuses idleness in his life with every cigarette»
«Many idlers love to smoke. It gives us something to do when we’re not doing anything.»
As a smoker who quit several times over the past 20 years and went from few cigarettes a week to 20 a day, back to 1 or 2 and then 20 again after the lockdown, I think the real threat is not the physical need, that is really easy to overcome, a few days and it's gone.
It's the idea of losing your status and missing the habit of being that kind of person that is really, really hard to win.
But it really sucks, we all know it, it's probably the most stupid thing a person can do, but we still fall for it.
I quit years before the pandemic, but if I was still smoking when lockdown started I would've probably gone from being a pack-a-day smoker to a two-pack-a-day smoker.
First, all that pandemic anxiety would've made me smoke way more just as a matter of course. Second, being at home all day means I'd have no reason not to smoke. Back when I smoked, if I wanted to smoke at work, I'd have to stop what I'm doing and go outside (which royally sucked when it was either swelteringly-hot out or raining), but in lockdown? I could just smoke in my house all day while working.
I'm so glad I quit before that.
I immediately lost interest, it's a terrible habit, I never smoked in the morning, rarely during the day, only at night when I'm out with other people, but I keep going back because... I don't even know why.
One thing is sure, if I have something meaningful to do I don't even think about cigarettes.
So in my case boredom is probably the main drive.
Other people might have other reasons to do it.
But it's absolutely something that every smoker should fight as hard as they can, because nothing good can come out of it.
One thing that really helped me to reduce my addiction to just 1 or 2 cigarettes a day has been avoiding "the bad ones".
Those cigarettes that you smoke knowing you won't even enjoy them.
I smoked one after dinner and one after a drink and that was enough.
If you start associating the habit of lighting up one after everyday activities - a coffee, waiting for someone or something, watching a movie, drinking a beer - that's when you are screwed and should understand you're smoking too much. Easier said than done, I know, but it worked on me until I let it win again.
When I was quitting smoking I found 2 things useful:
1) Alan Carr's book, which in essence is designed to convince you that you actually don't enjoy smoking. I completely agree, when I first started it gave me the sensation, then I had to smoke every half an hour just to stay functional.
2) The cigarette prices. There was no way I can sustain smoking when first move to London. A pack of cigarettes was the same as my food budged.
So, I just quit as a chain smoker. It was bad for a week but I kept observing myself and surely Alan Carr was right. I wasn't getting any boost from the nicotine, I was simply getting rid of the cravings for a brief period of time. In a month all the cravings disappears, in less than a year I had no desire to smoke even among people who are smoking. These days the cigarette smoke is simply something I try to avoid when exposed.
This was not my first time to quit but on the previous occasions I had the wrong mental model. I was thinking of it as stopping doing something that I enjoy, like quitting chocolates. In less than a day it would have turned into torture.
Just observe yourself to see if smoking actually gives you any pleasure or does smoking simply make you functional again. Then remember that non-smokers are functional without the cigarettes and their clothes and hands don't smell horrible.
Notice that there's no boost once you get addicted, it's more like removing tight shoes when your smoke break comes. Would you wear tight shoes only to experience the pleasure of removing them?
Everything gets so much better once you quit. You remember that the streets have a scent, the weather has scent. Just take note on yourself and there's no way going back to smoking, it's just a tremendously bad deal.
I rarely see this discussed when people talk about addiction. You can't un-ring the bell so to speak, and once you know you can do something you enjoy, you don't just forget about it. The cliche of the addict tied to the bed for a few weeks and then back to normal is not my experience at all. Acute withdrawal is easy compared to the hole that is left in your life. And I'm just talking about cigarettes, happily i never got involved with anything even more addictive.
I still stand by this particular statement. Given how you phrased what you said, I don't know if you think cigarettes are way less addictive than the others, or if you got hung up on me comparing them at all, or if you actually don't have any beef with the claim per se but just wanted to say that for some reason. For what it's worth you have no idea about my lived experiences.
I am still looking for something that can replace smoking, nothing really works. I have tried walking around the office, stretching, meditation, chewing gum, running up the stairs, eating snacks, drinking more coffee or tea, going outside for a short walks, etc. Smoking is really one activity where you can just take 5 minutes break from work every hour, stop thinking about work mentally, or keep thinking about the problem, totally normal to join a group of strangers smoking, or smoke by yourself, go outside to get away from crowd and smoke, smoke to get fresh air. Many times I was able to turn off my mind while smoking and when went back to work, I solved whatever I was stuck at.
This is one activity where I can totally turn off my mind and just be. I used to sit in my patio and watch storms, it was such a peaceful feeling. I don't know what activity can replace smoking. Any suggestion?
I also felt it helped to bridge the strata in the workplace, as a junior I'd often end up sharing a cigarette with an exec or manager of some kind and hear about goings on in a different part of the company or from a higher level which would help to piece together the puzzle of how the business was being run.
It's been many years since I've smoked habitually, a few months since doing so socially, I don't feel the urge, but I do miss the idle moments it allowed for.
There really is nothing quite like it. The closest thing I've found is tending to weeds in my back garden.
I also think it's really unhelpful to talk about quitting smoking in such hopeless terms. If I was still a smoker, being told I was inevitably going to be craving cigarettes for the rest of my life might almost convince me not to quit at all.
It doesn't have to be this way.
At some point, I had an established new hobby i enjoyed (running), i knew that smoking was holding me back, and i had a partial coping mechanism for dealing with craving and depression that comes with stopping.
10 years later, I still run, and I'm still happy with the tradeoff on my level of fitness, which is something that helps remind me of why I stopped when I have a craving.
(I know a lot of people don't like running, but my takeaway I think is that it's better to focus on a new hobby / habit and establish new patterns while still smoking and then try and quit, vs just stopping and then trying to fill the void after). I hope this makes it sound less hopeless.
I think the post was directed at non-smokers, to scare them into not starting to smoke.
Isn't that tautological?
My sample size here is extremely small – I know of three people who have used the method (2 read the book, 1 took the seminar) and all three were successes. I don't know of anyone who's done it that hasn't succeeded, but I expect there are tons of those. People who believe in it because it's worked for them are much more likely to speak broadly and loudly about it.
Then one evening about 10 years later I was at a festival wandering around and I had this desire in my brain for something, I didn't know what, and it was a few hours later that I realized the thing I really wanted was a cigarette. It was that night that I changed my internal conception of myself from "ex-smoker" to "non-smoker". I don't have cravings any more for cigarettes, though there is a certain pang, I guess I would call it "nostalgia", and maybe it includes "envy" of people who can smoke a cigarette/cigar socially at an event and then not think about it again for years. Occasionally I will have accidental contact with nicotine (like buying a joint on vacation and getting a weird taste while smoking it and realizing half-way through that it's actually a spliff), and for a few days or a week afterward the light switch is again visible in my mind--though I'm thankfully not tempted to flip it. I wonder in those times whether a never-smoker who has a cigar once does have the same cravings in the days after, but doesn't recognize them as such.
So at least for me, who admittedly was never a heavy smoker, it doesn't resonate that I will struggle with this addiction until I die. The only apparent lasting (mental) consequences are that I have to consciously refuse nicotine even when it would be a legitimately fun and interesting experience (like when I was offered some fancy snuff at a party which everyone else got to enjoy). And when I see someone smoking a cigarette I might get the nostalgia or envy I mentioned above. But when I get within smelling distance it's just foul and unappealing.
Best wishes for anyone who's thinking of or trying to quit.
The reason people smoke isn't simply that they're a bunch of junkies, it's that nicotine is perceived as a solution for their problems. For many people, it is too much hassle to identify the true causes of their need for nicotine, whether it's that they don't feel fluid enough or they feel overwhelmed emotionally. There are ways to fix those core problems in one's life, but to many, using nicotine might seem simpler or quicker.
People seem to think smokers enjoy torching up their nicotine sticks and fouling up the air for everyone else. In reality they are just self medicating. It is worse for them in the long run, but classically it is difficult for an unrealized long term reward to outcompete a short term gain whose effects are immediately apparent.
Did not smoke for more than 10 years, until a major disaster hit my life and I started to heavily smoke again.
So yes, it seems that there is a switch.
I just hope disaster won’t strike me, or hit me as heavy, as it did you.
I hope things have turned to the better for you!
There wasn't any "switch" based on prior smoking the first time you took up smoking.
So, I'd say, smoking again just means it's not impossible to start again. But why would somebody think it is?
The concept of the "switch" doesn't add much.
I wonder if there are physiological differences that account for this difference of experience.
Anecdotally, my wife and I both quit smoking. Many years later she still has the desire every day whereas I go months without thinking about it (and if cigarettes weren’t common in society I’d probably never think about them again, let alone have a desire to smoke one)
Quitting was horrible, but it got better. Now, the thought of smoking a cigarette is repulsive. Zero cravings, and the smell is highly offensive now.
There's no light switch.
YMMV.
It's been over a year now, and I can't imagine going back. The only trigger I have is seeing someone else smoke, and even then it has never been more than a fleeting thought that dissipates within seconds. I know exactly what 2-3 puffs would do to me, and I have no interest in going back. I've never had the urge to buy a pack myself or to bum off someone. Smoking is now well into my past, and for that I am thankful.
I got the well-known "nightmares" from Verenecline, but I actually really enjoyed them. Those dreams were some of the most vivid and intense I've ever had the joy to experience. In fact, I still have the last 50 1mg pills leftover that I didn't need to use, and I've only kept them because I know I'll eventually use them just to revisit that kind of dream state. :)
It still takes a tremendous amount of willpower to stay off the various forms of nicotine after the initial quitting. The pretense of having that first nicotine hit, seeking a consolation from life events, an excuse to make yourself feel better and all the other lies you'd be telling yourself are still very tempting (and exactly the reason I have been using the same pack of medication to __quit__ several times already.
Sir, I further regret to inform you that I've accidentally inhaled tobacco in recent years when being passed a (REDACTED BASED ON FEDERAL CANNABIS LAWS) that, unknown to me, had tobacco mixed in. I coughed, was disgusted, and had zero cravings for tobacco thereafter.
As such, there is no risk of relapse.
I do believe that my short stint consuming Chantix may have permanently rewired my brain's reaction to cigarettes.
After smoking for years I became a weekend smoker; in weekends I'd go out and after some beers the urge to smoke because so much stronger. It took me a few years to give up smoking in weekends, what helped me the most is all my friends trying to give up smoking so no cigarettes were around anymore when we'd go to a bar.
Eventually most of my friends started smoking again, but I stayed off of them. Now I've not smoked for at least 7 years; and I never feel like there is a lightswitch in my mind. Even after some beers the smell of cigarettes disgust me.
Which is a shame, because this means I probably shaved years off my life span without the pleasure that drives many to do so.
Unfortunately there are switches that one cannot just avoid - like food.
I was watching a West Wing episode last week, where a character says "An alcoholic cannot have 'just a drink'." It's the same for a food addict, except s/he must have 'just a portion'. I have a decent record with shaking off addictions, but with food I just can't go cold-turkey and it kills me.
But I also know people do overcome food addiction, so it makes me wonder, isn't it possible to "quit" smoking in the sense that you set some limits for yourself that you're honestly happy with, and then you aim for staying within the limit, like you would do with food and/or body weight. Does the limit have to be "none"?
But from the stray cigarettes bummed off friends in a drunken mood, or that time smoking hookah till i puked... I have that light switch now.
You gave a VERY apt description of nicotine.
As long as you're able to separate yourself from the narrative of "I'm a smoker" and just let go the big dramatic story about how it's hard and you're going to fail then it's relatively easy to just deal with the physical symptoms of withdrawal/craving. I have a strict "no nicotine" policy and it makes it super easy because I never have to wrestle with decisions about whether I'm going to smoke/vape/whatever, the decision is already made.
I maintain a healthy weight (now) and exercise, but this is a daily struggle. Since about the age of 12, certain peculiar foods inexplicably got wired in my head with pleasure, and the way you talk about this light switch is spot on.
I wonder if it has more to do with having an "addiction gene" of some sort – could some of us fall prey to addictive behaviors more than others? If so, why?
I don't think that's true in general, at least not for me or many of my friends. We never got hooked. Please don't try though ;)
Always, always while drinking. Maybe that helps isolate the context?
In the beginning it was something to do with friends at parties, then it became something to do while hanging out, and last came the addiction- ' I must have it'. All in all maybe a year from beginner to smoker.
I Started when I was 14, quit at 24. Used snus/chewing tobacco for 3 years after that, then I quit. Used to have nightmares of relapsing. The fascinating thing is that the physical addiction is over very quickly(days) its the psychological addiction that breaks people(and me more times than I care to remember).
Something in my brain seems to be wired such that I'm repelled by the taste when it's not in the "right" setting. Even if I wanted, when I only had a beer or two I get so sick from it that I have to stop almost immediately.
It might be that I'm just super lucky, but I feel like there is more to it than that.
Smoking one or 100 cigarettes doesn't guarantee addiction, it's a Russian roulette. If you haven't heard BANG yet, doesn't mean there's no ammo in the chamber.
You're not better or smarter than smokers. You just were more lucky.
I don't think I'm immune, but I am certain I'm not addicted to nicotine despite having smoked dozens of times, and I think that's a story worth sharing, even if you don't.
Sorry I don't have a better analogy, but it's like coming home from a tour in the military, and telling everybody "hey guys, war is perfectly safe, look at me I'm still alive!" — I'm really happy for you, but others are going to listen to your "story", follow your example, and have drastically worse results.
I think it's more interesting learning from those that went through hell, not the reckless lucky ones that managed to stay unscathed and think they're hot shit. Luck ain't a skill nor wisdom.
I know these are strong words for the matter at hand, but there must be an ex smoker or three that know exactly what I'm talking about.
There is a little bit of “smarter” in there but really, i’m just not an addict. Some people are, some aren’t. I know several people who have rarely smoked and never had problems with addiction.
I think part of it is some people are more susceptible to addiction than others and another part is that the “just one” is BS, you can learn to not let it happen to you without total abstinence.
Out of curiosity: did you try both to know that for fact?
As far as sociological consequences go, there's of course no comparison for various reasons. I don't know the role withdrawal plays, though, which is why it would interesting to get some first hand account.
My grandfather lived for a few more years as his health declined further. About two years after his last cigarette he confided in me that not a day goes past where he doesn't crave a cigarette. But he never asked for one. He never caved.
My grandmother had a fairly strong physical reaction to quitting initially. She was shocked when her doctor told her the shaking was due to physical withdrawal. She said she felt no different to a heroin addict. But after this physical shock subsided, that was it. She never craved a cigarette again. What's more, she became disgusted by the smell of cigarette smoke encountered in public. It was simply gone from her life.
The difference here is in the psychologically addictive element of cigarettes. Both grandparents had the same physical addiction, but that's nothing. Anyone can overcome that. But the psychological element seemingly ranges from non-existent to unstoppable.
I have experienced the psychologically addictive nature of cigarettes myself, even though I've never smoked. A friend bought some cheap disposable, nicotine-free, e-cigarettes and gave me one. Initially I was going to take it apart and see how it worked. But I tried it, of course. Then I tried it again. And again. There's something about it. Suck through the little pipe. Fill your lungs. See it glow. Exhale the vapour/smoke. My usage was exponential, until it ran out. I immediately considered buying another one. Then I caught myself. I had become addicted to this thing. It's that easy.
Seriously, don't start smoking. It's a mistake that you really can't undo.
Though to be honest nicotine is one of the hardest ones for the simple fact that it's so widespread. You can't really avoid it if your friends smoke or if it's still cool to smoke on TV (i.e. Mad Men). You don't go to a rehab or join a support group and call your sponsor whenever you feel you'd go for one, you'll be on your own. Thankfully it's getting easier and easier these days when it's not socially acceptable to smoke anymore, but still, quitting nicotine is one of the 3 hardest things you'll ever do in your life.
In fact, being around smoke doesn't make me want to smoke again. It's just the opposite, even. The smell of tobacco actively repulses me now, and if anyone lights up near me I start to feel sick. It's become a truly vile smell for me.
The hard part for me was just getting the motivation to quit. Nothing could really get me to want to quit, and I tried switching to vaping multiple times only to go back to kreteks, because I didn't really care if it'd kill me since I didn't really want to live anyway. It wasn't until I decided I wanted to transition that I got serious about quitting, because nicotine + estrogen is a really dangerous combination, so I realized I needed to quit if I ever wanted to be happy with my body. I switched to vaping pretty much instantly, vaped for a grand total of two months, and then decided to take a break for a few days before I got bloodwork done... and a few days _after_ I got my blood drawn I realized I hadn't touched my mod at all since and didn't even miss it, so I gave it back to the friend I borrowed it from, and I've been nicotine-free since (aside from one time, a year later, when I had a single kretek at a club just to prove that I wasn't addicted anymore and could have just one and then stop).
For what it's worth, I was a pack-a-day smoker for several years before I quit, and I've been nicotine-free for seven and a half years now (six and a half if you count the single kretek I had at the club after I quit).
Your edit is also not correct. This is not a "some people" thing. It is a "how you got yourself to stop" thing.
This is only true if you stop by using willpower. You need to reogranize your belief systems in order to dispel the illusions that it actually brings pleasure by understanding that it's just soothing a craving that doesn't exist when you aren't smoking.
If you feel this way, I highly, highly recommend you listen to one of the EasyWay books: https://www.allencarr.com/
How do you know you did quit? You actually are quite disgusted by cigarette smoke and byproducts.
First, after 10 years of smoking, I stopped smoking for 4 years but was prone to have a cigarette every couple of months.
Now after 5-6 year relapse I quit for good. Honestly, I don’t miss a thing. The smell sucks, the taste sucks. The only thing that doesn’t suck is watching smoke come out of your mouth, but it’s not THAT enjoyable tbh.
I don't think smoking is always addictive. But, given that it is for almost everyone, I'm utterly fascinated why it wasn't for me.
I did have tried smoking cigarettes. It never made an addict. I actually don't smoke (I don't like the "taste" of cigarettes).
And the reason I never tried hard drugs is because I'm afraid I may become an addict, although I would love to experiment them at least once.
It's not that I don't get addicted to things. Caffeine has a strong hold on me. I've even felt nicotine cravings, but they didn't feel hard to ignore. I just think some people have a stronger addictive response to nicotine then others.
For a year I still wanted a cigarette. Every day.
For two years I would still be smoking in my dreams.
That was over 20 years ago. I am no longer a smoker. I do remember the pleasure from it though.
It's a major factor in why my 80+ year old father is about to go into his 4th open heart surgery, having had a pacemaker the last 2 of those.
He still smokes. He refuses to quit because he sees it as an all or nothing precipice as you characterize above.
Quitting smoking is not some impossible mountain to climb. Talk to your doctor. What works for you will be context dependent. It does work, as proven by people every day. The answer to physiological dependency is time delay + taper down. The psychological re-enforcement loop will break and fade away.
I have done this and am not speaking in terms of hypotheticals.
You could not force me to smoke in any way. I will physically retch at the thought.
Please do not falsely portray quitting smoking as some eternal struggle. In fact, once you do it, it fades within a comparatively short time.
Says she still gets strong cravings from time to time.
I had a few puffs once in a dumb college do-stupid-things game -- I guess I didn't manage to inhale properly because it did nothing for me.
Edit: Of course this is not the case for 100% of humans. Everyone is different. Some weak some strong in willpower, discipline, etc. But we can all agree that it is an addiction that sucks life out of you slowly. You wouldn't want to test your willpower your whole life against such a sneaky enemy.