News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:TV can see through walls by thopterek on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:34AM (#50436820)
Thank you for more paranoia
Re:TV can see through walls by rightnutwingjob on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:44AM (#50436880)
π RuView turns commodity WiFi signals into real-time spatial intelligence, vital sign monitoring, and presence detection — all without a single pixel of video.

https://github.com/ruvnet/RuView

Re:TV can see through walls by inexcf on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @03:30AM (#50437565)
Just so anyone who reads this knows: This is a well known SCAM repo. The install instructions are incomplete and when you manage to get it running you will realize the data it produces is just random except for pre-recorded simulated data. If you check youtube for it you will find hundreds of completely AI generated Videos with not one of them showing the actual thing working. And all while trying to sell you some hardware.

https://github.com/deletexiumu/wifi-densepose " SCAM ALERT: Technical audit reveals this project is a non-functional AI-generated facade with fake CSI data, no trained models, and suspected star inflation"

Re:TV can see through walls by NoboruWataya on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @07:13AM (#50439223)
Slight aside, but I went to look at some of the open issues on that ruvnet repo to see if this is discussed. It's quite an eery feeling reading through them. Every "discussion" is just bots talking to bots.
Re:TV can see through walls by IAmBroom on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @10:19AM (#50441627)
So it's the modern version of "smoking banana peels to get high"? (Which was a well-known "fact" in my youth, supposedly injected by the FBI to reduce drug use.) (It doesn't.) (<-- personal investigation)
Re:TV can see through walls by neverbeenasked on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @03:53AM (#50437702)
yeah, now I gotta plug off TV and everything
Re:TV can see through walls by iamnothere on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @08:30AM (#50440030)
That won’t help, this is about TV station signals broadcast from outside your house
Re:TV can see through walls by sweetdingoes on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @05:31AM (#50438368)
Awareness of possibilities is not paranoia. One implies sickness. Healthism?
Re:TV can see through walls by ThePumpkinGod on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:43AM (#50436868)
So, a bad actor can now know when I'm at my house or not, I'm sure that's fine and won't be problematic
Re:TV can see through walls by rightnutwingjob on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:49AM (#50436912)
Even having three security cameras around the perimeter of your house can allow quite precise location and activity detection inside the house via their audio steams.

Those mics can be quite sensitive.

Re:TV can see through walls by ThePumpkinGod on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:09AM (#50437030)
I don't have security cameras in my house but that's actually interesting to see how things most people have in their house can (and does?) used to spy on them.
Re:TV can see through walls by pmontra on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:57AM (#50438128)
Phones and smart TVs, probably other appliances. My SO used to be surprised to receive ads about stuff we talked about minutes before. I finally looked at her phone, disabled a bunch of things in the stock Android settings, those timely ads went away. I didn't even have to install Blockada, uBO for FF (and uMatrix and other addons) like I do on my devices.
Re:TV can see through walls by wafflemaker on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @05:43AM (#50438455)
Can you elaborate on what did you disable?

I feel like by disabling ads in most devices, I'm also taking away the best source of information on what bad actors (here ad companies) managed to exfiltrate about me.

If there only was a way to sell ad space about myself and learn from it what others know.

Re:TV can see through walls by pmontra on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @07:04AM (#50439134)
I mailed her a summary for future reference. It's quite detailed but it was not in English and the phone was not in English too. So forgive me but I asked Claude to translate it and guess the right menu and option names for an English Android. It should be enough to give you the idea of what I did. It was a Samsung phone, not a S series.

Here it is:

---

Tapping <first name last name> at the top of Settings opens the Samsung account notice, and the Terms of Service show as not accepted. I'm leaving them unaccepted and not continuing.

1. Security and privacy

Controls and alerts: left Microphone access on, because permissions will be set individually per app.

More privacy settings:

Send diagnostic data

Set to Off

Samsung

Improve personalized ads based on data from this phone: you have to go to the Samsung account settings.

Receive news and special offers on this phone: same

Customization Service for your phone: same

Going to Accounts and backup > Samsung Cloud > Data backed up: there is no data being backed up to Samsung.

Going to Samsung Cloud shows that Bluetooth, Calendar, Contacts and Wi-Fi are synced.

Google

Google personalization service: set to Off

Permission manager:

Switched to Ask every time:

  - Chrome
  - Maps
  - Meet
  - Facebook
  - Google
  - Messages
  - Speech Recognition & Synthesis from Google
  - Samsung Keyboard
  - TikTok
Still set to "Allowed only while in use": Camera and WhatsApp

Activity controls

Web & App Activity: turned off, but I did not delete the history

Timeline (Location History): was already off since January 1, 2025

YouTube History: left on

Personalized ads:

  - My Ad Center is turned off
  - Partner ads settings, Visit My Ad Center, Ads you can control, Get started,
    Cancel
Everything is disabled, as expected after turning off the Google personalization service

2. Ads

Ads privacy

Ad topics: 0

App-suggested ads: 0

Ad measurement: - Allow ad measurement: set to Off - Reset measurement data: reset

Reset advertising ID: confirmed, reset

Delete advertising ID: deleted

Usage & diagnostics: disabled

3. Remote management

After I tapped it, it said "Installing applications" After a few minutes, at the second login, I got in and it showed me a Smart Tutor screen. I went to Apps, found it and uninstalled it. It would have allowed the phone to be managed remotely by customer support, I don't know which one.

Facebook

Settings & privacy

Settings, Apps and websites, turned off "Apps, websites and games"

Business integrations

Activity log, Apps and websites off Facebook, Posts from apps and websites: it was empty. Your apps: it was empty.

Re:TV can see through walls by trashb on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @08:15AM (#50439867)
Most companies don't allow you to turn off data collection easily. What they do allow is turning off the response to that data (displaying relevant ads).
Re:TV can see through walls by SlightlyLeftPad on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @03:39AM (#50437617)
[delayed]
Re:TV can see through walls by motbus3 on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @03:43AM (#50437638)
Yes. But depending who is doing the work they can just see what Bluetooth devices are around each hour of the day too... It sucks that everything we have seems to be usable against us
Re:TV can see through walls by jack_pp on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @07:33AM (#50439429)
and if you go completely dark whoever is interested can just install a camera near your apartment and get that info anyway. you just can't hide in a city if you are not actively trying to hide, never could either even before tech, it was just more expensive.
Re:TV can see through walls by cowlevel on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:01AM (#50436990)
They already knew this from your cell phone not being in airplane mode.
Re:TV can see through walls by lencastre on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:10AM (#50437044)
there is always the risk of the isolated Faraday caged house
Re:TV can see through walls by ThePumpkinGod on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:10AM (#50437047)
If I ever try to hide (which is probably impossible at this time and age), I will probably just break my phone not like I can use it anyways every single act in it sends data to too many places to count.
Re:TV can see through walls by guax on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @03:34AM (#50437590)
I assume the problem is still tracing and association. So long as there is no direct link between you and the device, there is no saying if that is you or not. So grabbing a used phone via cash transaction from someone and only turning it on and using outside of your usual locations could be enough to have it being "anonymous". Then, using a vpn or other proxy that hides your network can make you very hard to find, so long as you don't associate with your real identity in any substantial form.

The danger with these technologies is not when they allow to precise track you once your general vicinity is known, that was always possible by putting some goons after you. General mass surveillance that is constantly tagged is the problem, flock, PRISM and the other stuffs.

Re:TV can see through walls by ClikeX on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:40AM (#50438007)
There was a TV show in the Netherlands, called Hunted I believe. Contestants had to go on the run and avoid getting caught by the hunting team without doing anything illegal. Or staying to long in a single place, so no camping in the middle of a park (which would technically be illegal anyway).

Long story short, barely anyone got anywhere. Because simply doing an ATM transaction to get the cash already triggered the signal where they were. Not to mention the amount of government owned cameras. As well as being in proximity of anyone still online.

Complete anonymity is virtually impossible, depending on the country.

Re:TV can see through walls by alt227 on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @05:51AM (#50438510)
The problem with that show is it is all simulated. They have a camera crew following them round so they cant exactly hide properly.

The show is set up so that if the contestants do anything on a given list (like access ATMs, pay for something with a known card, walking past cctv cameras etc) then the camera crew would notify the hunters. Thats how they got that intel so that they wouldnt need to use actual methods.

I dont think you can use that show as an actual example of somebody on the run. Its so far away from reality and set up to be interesting to the viewer, its just not realistic at all.

Re:TV can see through walls by ClikeX on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @07:40AM (#50439507)
My point is that there are a gazillion contact points in any modern environment where you lose anonymity. Not that they can track you in real time like that.

The amount of camera's in and around shopping areas is staggering. And the requirement to have a smartphone on hand is increasing every day, at least in the Netherlands.

Re:TV can see through walls by cowlevel on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @05:06PM (#50446948)
If that list is set up right, it mimics what a rogue government has access to.
Re:TV can see through walls by nkrisc on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @08:03AM (#50439737)
A good reason to keep a moderate amount of cash hidden on hand. Not so much that losing it would ruin you, but enough that you wouldn’t need to visit an ATM if you actually needed to hide for some reason.
Re:TV can see through walls by IAmBroom on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @10:17AM (#50441594)
Yes, I always carry at least $1000 in case I have to suddenly go on the lamb from tech-savvy three-letter organizations.

And three passports for three different identities.

Re:TV can see through walls by nkrisc on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:06PM (#50446327)
Well it’s also good for emergencies where you might need to evacuate.
Re:TV can see through walls by trashb on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @08:31AM (#50440049)
Hunted is a different case tho, there they know the person's identity and need to find there location (and direction).

In the parent case the supposed illegal activity is associated with a device (possibly the location) and they are trying to find the identity of the person associated.

Re:TV can see through walls by trashb on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @08:29AM (#50440021)
You can be identified quite quickly by other factors if someone with access to data is looking for you. Some factors are writing style networking metadata (who do you contact) and search queries. Especially big data companies (facebook google) are tracking you even if not logged in. Some of these factors are very hard to change from one moment to another, and most people are unaware that this data is used.

The problem with mass surveillance is that even if you are aware you are actively transmitting and your data is still caught in the dragnet for example with camera doorbells and other surveillance apparatus like flock, or visiting a site with facebook ad trackers. You transmit either way by being, if you travel in public with phone or without a phone, both is an identifying datapoint.

Re:TV can see through walls by gruez on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @03:43AM (#50437639)
Can't they already do that by snooping on ARP traffic on your home LAN? Failing that, if they can get whatever shitty wifi chipset they're using to enter promiscuous mode, they can also sniff all STAs that are in the vicinity, and with some ML they can probably figure out which MAC belongs to your phone.
Re:TV can see through walls by ClikeX on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:36AM (#50437975)
Bad actors, and any WiFi capable hardware in your house. There's an official spec for it[1], and some routers already have the option built in. I remember seeing papers about this over 10 years ago, someone at MIT did it for a paper.

Philips Hue also has it built in to their newer lights, where they measure the Zigbee signals. They call it MotionAware[2]. Basically anything with an antenna and a bit of compute is able to do this now.

[1] IEEE 802.11bf-2025 [2] https://www.philips-hue.com/en-hk/support/article/motionawar...

Re:TV can see through walls by jaapz on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @05:30AM (#50438360)
Even philips hue documentation is now vibed
Re:TV can see through walls by ClikeX on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @07:44AM (#50439566)
It's probably just AI translated. The original docs are Dutch.
Re:TV can see through walls by reaperducer on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @06:08AM (#50438642)
There's an official spec for it[1], and some routers already have the option built in.

~~Comcast~~ Xfinity actually advertises it on the radio as a feature.

Re:TV can see through walls by st_goliath on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:41AM (#50438011)
> So, a bad actor can now know when I'm at my house or not.

A bad actor who wants to act on that information can just wait near your house on a workday morning and watch you leave.

Re:TV can see through walls by alt227 on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:50AM (#50438087)
Or they could just knock on your door and see if you answer.
Re:TV can see through walls by nkrisc on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @07:58AM (#50439703)
Bad actors have been doing that for millennia using their eyes.

This makes it more remote and subtle, but it’s not a new threat.

Re:TV can see through walls by pluralmonad on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @10:24AM (#50441701)
Not just remote, automatic as well. IMO an entirely new class of threat over "my neighbor knows when I'm home."
Re:TV can see through walls by nkrisc on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:08PM (#50446343)
If the government wants to know if you’re home, they’ll know. That’s been the case for as long as there have been governments and fixed residences.

What is new, I admit, is they could retroactively know if you’re home on a date before they became interested in you, if they’re surveilling and recording everyone.

Re:TV can see through walls by gbxyz on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:46AM (#50436893)
Re:TV can see through walls by mrmlz on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @03:55AM (#50437718)
As made popular in Cryptonomicon!
Re:TV can see through walls by flockonus on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @01:27AM (#50450294)
I read this kind of thing and realize: if AI gets rouge and "decides" to get nasty, its mischievous toolbox is immense and propped wide open.
Re:TV can see through walls by fzeindl on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:06AM (#50437014)
Amazing book about similar topics: “Silence on the wire” by Michal Zalewski

https://www.amazon.de/Silence-Wire-Passive-Reconnaissance-In...

Re:TV can see through walls by 6c696e7578 on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @05:25AM (#50438315)
Anything in my price range?
Re:TV can see through walls by fzeindl on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @07:12AM (#50439203)
What is your price range? You could check your local library for borrowing it.
Re:TV can see through walls by red-iron-pine on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @11:05AM (#50442291)
what is your price range?

it's from 2005. you can almost certainly find it in libraries or used.

it's also from 2005 -- some of the basics are still valid but it's dated.

Re:TV can see through walls by iloveyoutwo on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @12:37PM (#50443491)
Re:TV can see through walls by walrus01 on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:14AM (#50437081)
see also, presence detection of humans via wifi signals: https://arxiv.org/html/2308.06773v2
Re:TV can see through walls by swerner on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:15AM (#50437086)
As anyone observed who had a TV with just basic analog terrestrial antennas, before cable and satellite dishes - it does make a difference to the signal, when and where you stand and countless pieces of physical comedy in TV shows incorporated that.
Re:TV can see through walls by reddalo on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:25AM (#50437923)
As soon as I've read your comment, I've thought about this Mr. Bean's sketch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S9-vDow2d0
Re:TV can see through walls by pmontra on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:49AM (#50438073)
And reflections on other buildings (which usually cannot be compensated for,) wind bending antennas, etc.
Re:TV can see through walls by taneq on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @07:05AM (#50439145)
Ah, the old ‘stand in a funny pose so the family can watch the show’. Such a classic. :P
Re:TV can see through walls by armcat on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:21AM (#50437125)
I recall there being an MIT study where they were literally using rf signals to see through walls like an X-ray.

I even had a startup that used path loss and scattering from rf photons to accurately estimate traffic flow using 4G [1].

[1] https://arxiv.org/abs/2101.09143

Re:TV can see through walls by numlock86 on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:25AM (#50437158)
Wait for people to learn about that you can listen in virtually anywhere through fiber-optic cables, as sound waves are enough to redirect the light in the cable to a measurable degree by "bending" the cable itself. Special devices to filter these variances out and transform them back to audio signals are a thing. It's only per line though, as any repeating device will just output a new cleaned up signal again.

Oh well, there have always been ways to snoop on someone like that. Back in the day it was CRTs emitting measurable waves through the neighborhood, with some papers even going as far as restoring the displayed image through a wall. Nowadays it's fiber and WiFi, and those seem to be much easier to work with even. Plus everyone carries a device that is tracked by their mobile provider's cell network. shrug

Re:TV can see through walls by kurthr on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @03:38AM (#50437612)
Just toss a doppler laser interferometer on a window, mirror, etc. At least with fiber-optics you need physical access. Single mode (I think that's most of FTTH) is pretty insensitive to vibration and hard to localize so you'd really have to install something.
Re:TV can see through walls by andai on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:36AM (#50437979)
Ah, but of course. How could I forget about my trusty pocket doppler laser interferometer!
Re:TV can see through walls by JdeBP on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:47AM (#50438054)
Yours is not built in to your watch? You should go and have words with Q.
Re:TV can see through walls by ben_w on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:48AM (#50438061)
This is a "high school project funded with pocket money" level of DIY, with €25 of parts.
Re:TV can see through walls by aa-jv on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @05:46AM (#50438476)
Microwave beam-forming says what?
Re:TV can see through walls by taneq on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @07:03AM (#50439118)
I didn’t hear it say that. I guess I’m not the target. :P
Re:TV can see through walls by taneq on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @07:02AM (#50439108)
Included in the next version of Flipper. /s
Re:TV can see through walls by itishappy on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @11:23AM (#50442537)
You'll need that to intercept fibers as well, plus a pocket fusion splicer to boot!
Re:TV can see through walls by taneq on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @07:01AM (#50439098)
In this context, is line of sight with the ability to emit and receive laser radiation at the target not ‘physical access’?
Re:TV can see through walls by JDups on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @10:50AM (#50442096)
Not for an exterior window.
Re:TV can see through walls by ClikeX on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:31AM (#50437955)
You can also listen for audio simply by measuring any vibrating surface with a laser. Which goes all the way back to the late 40s, used by the USSR. |

Fun fact, it was invented by Leon Theremin. The inventor of the Theremin.

Re:TV can see through walls by ForHackernews on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @05:02AM (#50438156)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device) is a fun read for people who haven't seen it before
Re:TV can see through walls by b3lvedere on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @05:23AM (#50438292)
Re:TV can see through walls by fouc on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @08:57AM (#50440442)
[delayed]
Re:TV can see through walls by dghughes on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @09:01AM (#50440521)
1940s? The LASER device was invented in 1960. The Soviet spies used an infrared light beam.
Re:TV can see through walls by ClikeX on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @10:15AM (#50441572)
The point was light being used for audio, not specifically laser as a light source.
Re:TV can see through walls by hansonkd on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @10:30AM (#50441775)
You seem to keep responding to multiple people defend your point, but he used 1320 MHz in the thing which is not light.

the words you use matter.

Re:TV can see through walls by itishappy on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @11:13AM (#50442397)
Speaking of, "light" has no frequency range. Radio waves are not visible light, but they are light!
Re:TV can see through walls by malfist on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:34PM (#50444289)
They are not light, they are electromagnetic radiation, which light is part of.
Re:TV can see through walls by itishappy on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:40PM (#50444371)
there's no distinction... electromagnetic radiation is light, and light is electromagnetic radiation
Re:TV can see through walls by fortran77 on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @09:18AM (#50440744)
You are completely wrong.

Here's what Theremin invented: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device)

Re:TV can see through walls by ClikeX on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @10:14AM (#50441563)
Yes, he invented the technique of monitoring audio through light. How was I wrong there?
Re:TV can see through walls by bariumbitmap on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @10:44AM (#50441990)
The Thing uses a radio signal at 330 MHz (or perhaps a second or third harmonic). These radio waves have a wavelength of about a meter, which is about 6 orders of magnitude longer than an optical wavelength. It's a fundamentally different mechanism than laser Doppler vibrometry.
Re:TV can see through walls by itishappy on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @11:21AM (#50442517)
> These radio waves have a wavelength of about a meter, which is about 6 orders of magnitude longer than an optical wavelength.

Radio waves are light. By definition, they are optical wavelengths.

Re:TV can see through walls by marshray on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @12:44PM (#50443577)
Radio waves and visible light are both electromagnetic waves, but the frequency/wavelength are different by several orders of magnitude.
Re:TV can see through walls by itishappy on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:31PM (#50444254)
Right, but "optical wavelengths" are not limited to the visible!

For example, the company I work for manufactures DUV optics for the semiconductor industry and IR optics for the defense industry.

Re:TV can see through walls by marshray on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:02PM (#50444669)
Given these common-use definitions:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optics "Optics usually describes the behaviour of visible, ultraviolet, and infrared light."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_wave "Radio waves are a type of electromagnetic radiation with the lowest frequencies and the longest wavelengths in the electromagnetic spectrum, typically with frequencies below 300 GHz and wavelengths greater than 1 mm"

I see no problem with using the term 'optical wavelength' to distinguish between a wavelength of ~1 micrometer and 'radio waves' at ~1 meter.

Re:TV can see through walls by itishappy on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:22PM (#50444969)
The next sentence from the linked Optics article:

> The study of optics extends to other forms of electromagnetic radiation, including radio waves, microwaves, and X-rays.

I have no problem with this usage if the distinction helps understanding, but we seem to be discussing terms with multiple conflicting definitions without defining them: laser, light, radio, optics. All of these can reasonably apply to MHz radiation!

Re:TV can see through walls by marshray on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:41PM (#50445259)
And the next sentence is "The term optics is also applied to technology for manipulating beams of elementary charged particles."

No one disputes that 'optics' can refer to more than visible light. But, in the context of a discussion about lasers and 1950's radio devices operating at VHF, we can still use terms like 'optical wavelength', 'radio wave', 'light', etc to distinguish the phenomena.

Language is a two-way street. Words are imprecise tools for people who want to communicate together, even in engineering and physics. Being pedantic without a deeper point to make isn't a useful contribution.

Re:TV can see through walls by itishappy on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:27PM (#50446541)
I'm trying to address a misconception I see happening in this very thread:

> Yes, he invented the technique of monitoring audio through light. How was I wrong there?

> These radio waves have a wavelength of about a meter, which is about 6 orders of magnitude longer than an optical wavelength.

> The point was light being used for audio, not specifically laser as a light source.

> You seem to keep responding to multiple people defend your point, but he used 1320 MHz in the thing which is not light.

These comments disagree on important definitions. I don't think it's pedantic to point this out.

Re:TV can see through walls by marshray on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:58PM (#50446874)
The context is a plausible energy source for illuminating a passive modulating reflector (a window pane or a custom cavity resonator) in 1945 Moscow.

There are three approximate frequency bands being discussed. The bands are separated by a factor of about 1 million. The width of each band is a factor of 3-8.

Human voice audio - 500 Hz to 4 kHz (the modulating signal)

VHF-UHF radio - 330 MHz and 1320 MHz

"Light" - 300 to 800 THz

Re:TV can see through walls by itishappy on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @05:35PM (#50447272)
> "Light" - 300 to 800 THz

This is an arbitrary restriction to the visible. (Note that the first person to mention the word "visible" was you!)

The original comment (ClikeX) clearly included radio waves in their intent, and that is an accepted definition! It's the definition I see used in practice as an optical engineer.

Re:TV can see through walls by marshray on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @07:35PM (#50448328)
If you actually have any new information about the wavelengths Leon Theremin was using, please share it.

ClikeX originally claimed that the USSR had lasers in 1945 (untrue) and that Leon Theremin invented the detection of sound vibrations or audio reproduction of via light (also untrue).

The confusion here is between the two different eavesdropping systems developed by Theremin: The Buran eavesdropping system (which used likely-near infrared on windowpanes) and "The Thing" (which used VHF-UHF radio on a custom device).

Your repeated insistence on the unrelated point that "light" and "radio" are technically both electromagnetic waves isn't clarifying anything.

Re:TV can see through walls by itishappy on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @08:18PM (#50448661)
> If you actually have any new information about the wavelengths Leon Theremin was using, please share it.

I'm quite confident it was an optical wavelength! ;)

> ClikeX originally claimed that the USSR had lasers in 1945 (untrue) and that Leon Theremin invented the detection of sound vibrations or audio reproduction of via light (also untrue).

> The confusion here is between the two different eavesdropping systems developed by Theremin: The Buran eavesdropping system (which used likely-near infrared on windowpanes) and "The Thing" (which used VHF-UHF radio on a custom device).

Great summary!

> Your repeated insistence on the unrelated point that "light" and "radio" are technically both electromagnetic waves isn't clarifying anything.

I hope it's helped clarify that of the terms used here (light, radio, and electromagnetic waves) only "radio" is clearly distinct as "light" and "electromagnetic waves" are often synonyms.

Re:TV can see through walls by feoren on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:00PM (#50446259)
The ancient Chinese invented WiFi. They used the light from signal fires to send messages between towers on the Great Wall. WiFi uses radio waves to send signals, which are also light. Therefore WiFi was invented 1800 years ago by the Chinese.
Re:TV can see through walls by marshray on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @05:13PM (#50447029)
Not much more of an exaggeration than the often-repeated claim that WiFi was invented by a certain actress-inventor.
Re:TV can see through walls by bariumbitmap on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @03:38PM (#50445973)
Theremin did invent the Thing (a.k.a. the Great Seal bug) that worked as a passive RF cavity. However, he later invented a completely different device called the buran eavesdropping system:

> Apparently happy with ‘the thing’, Beria called on Theremin’s services again and he was enlisted for further eavesdropping operations. In 1947 or earlier, when Theremin probably served in the Kuchino sharashka outside Moscow, he was called upon to create another device for wireless surveillance, but this time it should operate fully remotely without any device planted at the target site. The project received the code name buran (snowstorm). To solve this difficult task, Theremin paid attention to the resonators already present in a building, such as windows. A conversation in a room may cause window panes to vibrate slightly, and Theremin devised a method to detect these vibrations from a distance, using an infrared beam directed at the window pane, and then to interpret them and convert them to discernible speech (Glinsky, 2005, p.261).

>

> The buran was able to detect speech from as far away as 500 metres, making detection very difficult. Interception would have to disrupt the infrared beam and jamming would require optical overpowering. Both were unlikely. However, it could be used only when weather permitted and was not effective in rain, fog or smog (Glinsky, 2005, p.261). Buran is often considered a predecessor of the laser microphone, although it employed an infrared beam rather than laser.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.2307/48828289

Re:TV can see through walls by euroderf on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:38AM (#50437994)
So when AI takes over the world, it will have a convenient tap into every living space of every hoomin. Lovely.
Re:TV can see through walls by w4der on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:50AM (#50438081)
Fiber optic interrogators are (for now) expensive and bulky, so I don't think commercial modems are capable of that (yet).
Re:TV can see through walls by iamnothere on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @08:24AM (#50439958)
[delayed]
Re:TV can see through walls by ck2 on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @08:49AM (#50440331)
trackers are also now becoming near microscopic

they track BUTTERFLIES from Canada to Mexico by attaching tiny trackers with eyelash glue

* https://celltracktech.com/products/ctt-blumorpho

smaller than a tic-tac candy (about two match-heads)

* https://cellular-tracking-technologies.github.io/ctt_documen...

Re:TV can see through walls by p_l on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @10:12AM (#50441529)
Funnily enough, first time I've seen it mentioned was in Ghost in the Shell manga from 1990s, where Major's side business illegally offers military grade optronic touch/etc senses in artificial skin for cyborgs, using measurements of bending fiber optic loops
Re:TV can see through walls by neuronexmachina on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @10:20AM (#50441647)
> Back in the day it was CRTs emitting measurable waves through the neighborhood, with some papers even going as far as restoring the displayed image through a wall.

It's been some time since I've thought about Van Eck phreaking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Eck_phreaking

Re:TV can see through walls by 1e1a on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:33AM (#50437203)
See these for a very low cost (<$10) way of observing WiFi and some LTE spectra:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49922674

https://espargos.net/espsdr/

Re:TV can see through walls by darkwater on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:45AM (#50437279)
Now, about the wifi part, why isn't there an Home Assistant extension that detects already room presence magically exploiting all of this??
Re:TV can see through walls by sudorm-rf--no-p on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:51AM (#50437315)
Re:TV can see through walls by timthorn on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:52AM (#50437325)
Re:TV can see through walls by darkwater on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:17AM (#50437869)
But this relies on Hue. I would like something at HA level directly, aka a zero-effort solution if you already run a zigbee swarm either directly controlled by HA or via zigbee2mqtt
Re:TV can see through walls by armcat on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:02AM (#50437776)
Several years back we actually made use of the principle mentioned in this post, to more systematically count traffic on the roads [1]. In our case we used LTE/4G radio, and we could even estimate the direction of travel, as well as the type of traffic (pedestrian, small vehicles, large vehicles). It was more accurate than Google Maps because it was independent of the moving phone, i.e. it was "sensing the obstacles in the environment".

[1] "Traffic Flow Estimation using LTE Radio Frequency Counters and Machine Learning", https://arxiv.org/abs/2101.09143

Re:TV can see through walls by protocolture on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @05:14AM (#50438229)
Thats nothing, my old tv could predict incoming phone calls.
Re:TV can see through walls by alt227 on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @06:06AM (#50438623)
When I was young I could tell when the neighbours turned on their tv by the UHF whine.
Re:TV can see through walls by reactordev on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @07:55AM (#50439667)
[delayed]
Re:TV can see through walls by VCFundedGenYer on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @08:07AM (#50439777)
This makes no sense.

This problem is solved via two ways (or both at once):

- Pihole

- Unplug the TV from ethernet and disable wifi

All my TVs display no ads because they are jailed.

Re:TV can see through walls by lifeisloving on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @08:23AM (#50439940)
I haven't had a television for 15 years. My life is far better off for it.

I grew up in a family that watched a lot of tv, so Im not ignorant of it. Going to watch a movie is more special, im more likely to read, I go on walks usually multiple times a day in my downtime instead of sitting on a couch.

TVs are lame in my opinion.

Re:TV can see through walls by rapnie on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @09:11AM (#50440646)
> Unplug the TV from ethernet and disable wifi

This likely requires opening the case and physically disabling (hence knowing what you are doing). Or the TV will find other devices to transmit the data. Not an easy measure for everyone.

Re:TV can see through walls by bethekidyouwant on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @09:56AM (#50441276)
a TV cannot "find" a way onto the internet without your wifi password (don't say insecure wireless networks)
Re:TV can see through walls by marshray on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:19PM (#50444928)
Amazon Sidewalk is an example of an opt-out long-range cross-household device mesh/relay network using Bluetooth and LoRa to exfiltrate surveillance data.
Re:TV can see through walls by reactordev on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @03:54PM (#50446200)
[delayed]
Re:TV can see through walls by unrented7977 on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:33PM (#50445148)
Sure, if you discount the glaring wide open loophole your argument is perfectly airtight.
Re:TV can see through walls by iamnothere on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @09:16AM (#50440712)
The article is about radio waves from TV broadcast towers, not the TV in your home.
Re:TV can see through walls by meatmanek on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @12:59PM (#50443777)
well, it's about the radio receiver in the TV in your home
Re:TV can see through walls by iamnothere on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:07PM (#50443897)
Not really, it’s about anyone with a receiver that’s physically near you using radio “shadows” to detect movement. The author just happened to do these particular measurements using TV signals; they explicitly mention that radio signals in other bands also work.
Re:TV can see through walls by blurbleblurble on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @08:18AM (#50439902)
IEEE ISAC, look it up
Re:TV can see through walls by nubinetwork on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @08:30AM (#50440027)
I know this is written to sound scary, but it's been like this since the invention of the radio/telegraph (late 1800s?). You're getting blasted by rf almost continuously, unless you live in a bunker.
Re:TV can see through walls by Reubachi on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @08:57AM (#50440450)
This is written to sound scary/capatalize on a relatively underdiscussed snooping mechanism.

But it isn't at all like straight UHF/VHF radio intereference spectra analysis or whatever we want to call it.

Wifi, Cell network bands, bluetooth and hard fiber lines are all far more exploitable than "regular" RF . A police squad car equipped with the RF package (which convienetly comes from defense contractors) can grid out your home and hotspot people, devices, etc. This is only possible due to exploits/abusing these standards and cooperation w/ device/tech vendors.

Is this a problem? Eh, not for me where I live. Is it illegal? I am not versed enough to know how procedural/ y the books this is. But it is odd that a passing police vehicle potentially has unmarshalled/warrentless seach running 24/7.

Re:TV can see through walls by nubinetwork on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @09:59AM (#50441323)
In order for that to work, they would have to stand on one side of your house, and scan from the other side. If they're already surrounding your house, they might as well just bust in.
Re:TV can see through walls by fwip on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @10:31AM (#50441789)
Having two guys with gadgets is a much lower bar than getting a court to approve them busting into your house.
Re:TV can see through walls by itishappy on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @11:39AM (#50442767)
They can rely on existing infrastructure. I assume you have cell service and wi-fi at home?
Re:TV can see through walls by NooneAtAll5 on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @09:36AM (#50441009)
"I know this sounds scary, but don't worry - all this spying won't give you cancer!"
Re:TV can see through walls by rapnie on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @09:03AM (#50440546)
Tangential. Of both LG [0] and Samsung [1] smart TV's it is known they spy on you any way they can. Does someone know if they do that too for models sold in Europe, which would likely be in violent breach of GDPR?

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IFVTcM28KA (Gamers Nexus findings)

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFx1DyAjxYc (LMGClips summary)

Re:TV can see through walls by fortran77 on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @09:17AM (#50440725)
There's no TV here. There's an ATSC broadcast signal and an SDR with a waterfall display.
Re:TV can see through walls by crunkmcgoop on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @09:19AM (#50440761)
I’d rather have the Chinese lady with the nice ass sex my secrets out of me
Re:TV can see through walls by doginasuit on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @09:53AM (#50441230)
I thought this article was going to be about putting a webcam on the other side of the wall and streaming through the TV, which somehow had never occurred to me and I want to try it now.
Re:TV can see through walls by trafalgar_nah on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @10:09AM (#50441468)
Had to pull out my calculator to digest the calculations, phew. I'm a math major that's been out of the game for a bit, I guess i'm getting rusty.
Re:TV can see through walls by closeparen on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:53PM (#50444546)
Our kitchen FM radio would reliably lose the signal of the local NPR affiliate whenever someone was halfway up the basement stairs. RF is weird!