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Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by pbj1968 on Monday May 22, 2023 @10:21PM (#36039044)
Sifting flour.

Sautéing spices “to release the flavor” and then adding them to stew where they’ll simmer for an hour or more.

Pretending “restaurant quality” is anything besides twice as much butter and salt as you’d dare use at home.

“One tablespoon of olive oil” to brown absurd amounts of meat at high heat.

Once you start recognizing recipe BS, you see it everywhere.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by explaininjs on Monday May 22, 2023 @10:27PM (#36039091)
Spices in a stew will only ever possibly reach 212. When blasted on dry heat they can get higher.

The tablespoon of olive oil is to kickstart the process, after that enough fat will render out of the meat to keep it going.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by yamtaddle on Monday May 22, 2023 @10:45PM (#36039190)
> The tablespoon of olive oil is to kickstart the process, after that enough fat will render out of the meat to keep it going.

Agreed on meat, but I consistently see way-too-small amounts of oil suggested for cooking veggies, too. It's like every recipe writer online got together and decided that 1) they must specify oil quantities for those steps, but 2) the quantity must never exceed one tablespoon.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by explaininjs on Monday May 22, 2023 @10:47PM (#36039208)
I wonder to what extent it’s attempts to game the auto-nutrition facts.

That said, is anyone actually measuring a tablespoon of oil? I just pour a glug of a size proportional to the ingredients and adjust as needed.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by freddie_mercury on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:24AM (#36040614)
Everyone has to start somewhere.

If you take a university student who has just left home and never cooked for themselves and tell them "just pour a glug proportional to the ingredients"...that's pretty close to useless for them, especially since they don't yet an intuition for what things you can freehand (and how much you can freehand them) and which things you shouldn't.

After all, you (probably) wouldn't ever say "I just open the Morton's salt and pour a glug in" because getting salt wrong even by relatively small amounts has a big impact on the final dish.

That said, I agree with you that recipe writers usually do a poor job of laying which things fall more on the "suggested amount, you can just eye ball it" end of the spectrum and which ones are "you should really pull out at least a spoon to get close on this one".

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by OJFord on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:42AM (#36041593)
> After all, you (probably) wouldn't ever say "I just open the Morton's salt and pour a glug in" because getting salt wrong even by relatively small amounts has a big impact on the final dish.

Not GP and I wouldn't phrase it quite like that - but I definitely would. You can give a rough indication, but salt should be added to taste.

(Unless we're talking about baking, where for one thing you can't taste until the end anyway. In that case yes of course measure, still to taste, but the feedback loop is longer.)

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by astura on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @09:52AM (#36044295)
>After all, you (probably) wouldn't ever say "I just open the Morton's salt and pour a glug in" because getting salt wrong even by relatively small amounts has a big impact on the final dish.

No, but you do, almost universally, say "salt to taste." Which is a different way to say the same thing.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by sublinear on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:35AM (#36040688)
Vegetables can release a lot of water. The amount and how much it affects the other ingredients varies significantly on which you put in, in what order, how much, and in what size of pan. If the pan is crowded, has high walls, or a lid, that can also affect how much water stays in the pan.

I can't think of any situation where I would want more than a literal tablespoon of oil for cooking the first veggies thrown in (usually onion). By the time the onions have begun to caramelize there's is enough water that the original tablespoon of oil is no longer significant.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by AlotOfReading on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:56AM (#36040833)
The first step in carmelization is to remove most of that water so the onions can reach maillard reaction temps. Try doing it without oil and an equivalent amount of water instead. It's much more temperamental.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by sublinear on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:06AM (#36040896)
> The first step in carmelization is to remove most of that water

Where did I say it wasn't?

Anyway, about adding water, I respectfully disagree. The oil is necessary and it really is a tablespoon in a shallow and uncrowded pan with the lid off.

EDIT: I'm specifically talking about browning some onions when called for as an initial step in a recipe, not for making a huge batch of them for use as a condiment. Cutting the onion into finer pieces also speeds things up.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by extortionist on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:59AM (#36041319)
America's Test Kitchen actually does suggest adding water to reduce the amount of time needed for caramelization--and not an equivalent amount of water, but much more than the amount of oil you'd use.

The idea is that adding water, raising it to a boil, and covering the pan reduces the amount of time needed to raise the temperature of the onions to the caramelization point, more than offsetting the amount of time needed to remove the water itself. That plus adding some baking soda near the end reduces the overall time considerably.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovqhzil3wJw

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by sublinear on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:12AM (#36041400)
I'd rather not comment about the reliability of ATK because that would be missing the point, but their recipe seems overly fussy and anyway they cut their onions too long in that video. I think it's kind of gross when you have dangling onion strands.

Slow cook them first for a few hours at a low temperature and then caramelize after. All your onion in a dry pot. Don't add water. Strain them when done and you have... soggy pale onions. Heat up the biggest pan you have and add some butter to do the caramelization (don't crowd the pan like they do in their video). Add some good balsamic vinegar and brown sugar while you're at it. Be sure to make a huge batch so you can freeze some for later. Don't bag and freeze before letting the onions come to room temperature. It's a lot of water in them onions man, but you can use that strained out water for a vegetable stock!

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by thomasfromcdnjs on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:17AM (#36041438)
I've got my own invented version of this style. I will boil them in a cm of water or something at the perfect time it evaporates I then add the oil.

I don't like them like the Americans do but there is lots of to play with it. (I've even started boiling onions whole before I use them in a bunch of other dishes)

Highly recommend it.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by com2kid on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:15AM (#36041423)
> I can't think of any situation where I would want more than a literal tablespoon of oil for cooking the first veggies thrown in (usually onion).

I have a few recipes that call for browning onions in a cup (or more!) of ghee.

Works wonderfully. Still takes forever.

There are many ways to brown onions, all of them suck. I tried the "boil in water first" method while back, that works OK ish.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by bluGill on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @09:34AM (#36044035)
> I can't think of any situation where I would want more than a literal tablespoon of oil for cooking the first veggies thrown in

I've helped cook at a camp where 500 people were going to eat the meal. That requires very different thinking from large family cooking where at most 20 people are eating, and a small family is different as well.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by 7speter on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:21AM (#36041023)
Its like watching gordon rsay cooking videos where he says you need a “knob” of butter and he just grabs half a stick and throws that in the pan.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by dunham on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @12:25AM (#36039813)
I agree on the temperature thing, but also there are some flavor compounds that are fat soluble and not water soluble.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by tuatoru on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:55AM (#36040819)
The thing that makes spices spices is volatile light aromatic oils.

Blast them on high heat and you drive off most of them, and polymerize the rest to creosotes.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by explaininjs on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @12:11PM (#36046390)
Yet this act is a staple of Indian cuisine. The key is knowing what spices in what forms can take how much heat. Whole pods of cumin or peppercorns for example can benefit from browning without the entire structure burning.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by firstlink on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:07AM (#36040904)
> Spices in a stew will only ever possibly reach 212. When blasted on dry heat they can get higher.

Some claim that this is a thing when making rice too. I've tried toasting the grains for a few minutes before adding the water to boil, but I can't say I can tell the difference. Maybe that's a time issue like the onions, or maybe it just doesn't do anything...

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by com2kid on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:13AM (#36041409)
> Some claim that this is a thing when making rice too. I've tried toasting the grains for a few minutes before adding the water to boil, but I can't say I can tell the difference. Maybe that's a time issue like the onions, or maybe it just doesn't do anything...

Quite a few Indian dishes require toasting the rice first, if you don't you will end up with a very different dish. In the right context, it makes a huge difference.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by onion2k on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:19AM (#36041009)
Temperatures expressed without a unit are in Kelvin, so 212 is really cold. It's -78.07°F.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by BrandoElFollito on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:28AM (#36041076)
No, temperatures without a unit are not temperatures.

When I was teaching 20 ago I would have given you a 2 for that. I happen to have a PhD in so I am knowledgeable about that matter.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by EdwardDiego on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:33AM (#36041537)
> I happen to have a PhD

Good for you.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by OJFord on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:37AM (#36041572)
Whether or not GP is actually a PhD, that was a joke about lack of units. (20 what ago, a 2 on what scale, a PhD in what)
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by tpoacher on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @08:02AM (#36043098)
Strictly speaking a PhD isn't a PhD "in" something. It is simply a PhD (a doctorate in philosophy).

Obviously philosophy isn't that informative a term, so people try to be helpful by adding what field or topic their actual research was about.

Some vocational/applied higher degrees in specific fields do have specific initials to differentiate them from a "generic" PhD (for example, the EngD).

Apologies for ++pedantry :)

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by OJFord on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @08:27AM (#36043308)
Sure. But it was the commenter writing the misunderstood joke that said 'PhD in' (just omitted the next word), I was just explaining that.

> people try to be helpful by adding what field or topic their actual research was about

Right, and a common way to do that is to say 'PhD in blah', or 'on bazzing foobars for blah' as though 'PhD' referred specifically to their thesis.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by BrandoElFollito on Tuesday May 30, 2023 @06:45AM (#36123312)
This is also why in non-English speaking countries, this title usually does not have any relation to philosophy. It is "Doctorate in something".
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by throwaway81523 on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:27AM (#36041064)
> Spices in a stew will only ever possibly reach 212.

I'm not any kind of cooking whiz but I always use an instant pot (electric pressure cooker) for stuff like that, so it gets up to 230 or so, I think.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by drekipus on Monday May 22, 2023 @10:25PM (#36039074)
You actually don't want too much oil when cooking steaks, otherwise they splatter everywhere. That's something I'm glad to learn.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by saaaaaam on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:51AM (#36040798)
Pat them dry before you put them in the pan. No splatter.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by wenc on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:09AM (#36040916)
You can cook steaks without adding any oil at all -- in fact, this is how to cook steak in an apartment without getting it all smokey.

According to America's Test Kitchen, do this: Pat dry. Start cold in nonstick/cast iron — no preheat, no oil. Flip every 2 mins. Start high, after few flips, turn heat down to medium. Keep flipping every 2 mins until done.

Most cuts worth eating have some fat on them (filet mignons might not but they are very dry anyway -- to me they're not worth it). This fat is enough to brown and cook the steak on. It's completely unnecessary to add oil.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by 7speter on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:23AM (#36041041)
Even better is a reverse sear in stove on an elevated rack on a baking sheet at 230 degrees for 30 minutes, then you finish the steak off on a hot oiled (avocado or maybe peanut oil) skillet for 1 minute on each side.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by wenc on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:33AM (#36041117)
I went from sous vide > reverse sear (faster than sous vide) > oil-free pan-sear, in the decreasing order of time of it takes.

I find the pan-sear delivers almost the same results in much less time (of course, you won't get the uniform insides of a reverse sear, but close enough since you're flipping so much). I'm also at a stage of life when I can afford better cuts of meat.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by drekipus on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @08:48PM (#36052639)
I was told that you should only flip steak once. I'm going to have to research this "flipping so much" stuff
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by wenc on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @09:47AM (#36058006)
That’s what chefs were taught too. The reasoning behind it is that less flipping equals good browning. The idea is that carryover heat and resting will cook the insides adequately.

But I think ATK or someone else debunked this as the best practice. Flipping more than once gets you more even internal cooking.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by denton-scratch on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:35AM (#36041554)
> at 230 degrees for 30 minutes

In my oven, 230deg is just about maximum temperature; cooking anything that hot for 30 minutes will result in cinders. I take it your oven is calibrated in Fahrenheit?

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by explaininjs on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @06:11AM (#36042121)
I’m curious too — 230F seems low for that amount of time. I’ve cooked plenty of meat in a smoker at 200-250F, but it takes many hours. On the flip side I agree 450F (~230C) sounds a bit high, but not imo catastrophically so.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by yrro on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @08:55AM (#36057334)
If I set my piece of crap Hotpoint oven to 230 C then it will eat to 260. So thermostat inaccuracy also has to be considered!
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by 7speter on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:02PM (#36048272)
Sorry, its farenheit
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by kwhitefoot on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @12:17PM (#36046458)
230 of what kind of degree?
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by dflock on Monday May 22, 2023 @10:40PM (#36039160)
Sifting flour is to get the weevils out ;)
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by mc32 on Monday May 22, 2023 @10:46PM (#36039194)
You’re right but that flour would have to be out (unsealed) for a while. Boy, weevils!
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by millimeterman on Monday May 22, 2023 @10:55PM (#36039252)
That strikes me as a fairly modern thing. I imagine that weevils and/or rocks in flour was a common issue just a few generations ago (or, in many countries, to this day).
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by steve_adams_86 on Monday May 22, 2023 @11:49PM (#36039587)
It can also remove clumps that can form in wetter climates, or from flour of lower quality. During the pandemic I got a big ol bag of flour that was loaded with clumps, and I had to gradually sift all 50lb of it. So, I guess it can still be totally useful in modern times if you have bad purchasing and storage options.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by dogline on Monday May 22, 2023 @10:56PM (#36039260)
Sifting flour will still leave you with the lesser of two weevils.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by kragen on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:23AM (#36040604)
flour here is sold in paper bags, which are glued shut but not waterproof or beetleproof

i have not had weevils in a number of years but I have recently had red flour beetles or confused flour beetles

they suck

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by rob74 on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:35AM (#36040682)
Well, you can always put the flour in another container which can be closed airtight (or at least bug-tight)...
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by tourmalinetaco on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:13AM (#36040947)
The issue isn’t that bugs get in, but that bugs are already in. Weevils will lay their eggs in with the flour, which are impossible to sift out. Unless you bake them at 140°F/60°C, freeze them at 0°F/-18°C, use pesticides, or deprive them of oxygen, they’ll eventually hatch and eat your flour/grain.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by philiplu on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:48AM (#36041230)
Hah, for once, a benefit of having celiac, no wheat for me apparently means no weevils for me. I mix up a lot of gluten-free flour mix to substitute for all-purpose flour. It's a mix of way too many flours and starches (white rice, brown rice, sweet rice, potato starch, potato flour, ivory teff, tapioca starch, arrowroot flour) that I got from a blog many years ago, and haven't tried to slim down because it works great for me. Never had any bug issues; maybe specialty flours have better quality control.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by kragen on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:35PM (#36048799)
maybe the tapioca is toxic enough to kill the bugs

what proportions do you use

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by philiplu on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @08:47PM (#36052631)
I mix up 2 kilograms at a time: 500 grams sweet rice flour, 400 grams brown rice flour & potato starch, 200 grams ivory teff & arrowroot starch, 100 grams white rice flour, potato flour, & tapioca starch. The original recipe had almond flour instead of white rice flour, but I decided to make this nut-free (had some friends with nut allergies).
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by kragen on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @12:23AM (#36054081)
thanks, this is great info! it seems like you have some premixed starch mixes as ingredients?
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by philiplu on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @03:23AM (#36055084)
Nope - those are all bagged single ingredients I usually order online. Authentic Foods has most of them. The ivory teff is from Maskal. The arrowroot and tapioca might be called flour, starch, or powder - all the same thing. Potato starch and potato flour are 2 different things.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by kragen on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @11:02AM (#36059090)
oh, so for example it's 100 grams white rice flour, 100 grams potato flour, and 100 grams tapioca starch, not 100 grams of a mix of the three? i guess that makes it add up to 2 kg
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by philiplu on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @01:47PM (#36061645)
Yep, that's what I meant.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by kragen on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @08:07PM (#36065591)
thanks! should have been obvious, but to me it wasn't
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by kragen on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:35PM (#36048792)
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by tourmalinetaco on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:06AM (#36040895)
I always put my flour in clear plastic containers so I can see how much I have left. I also put bay leaves in with the flour, as the eggs/larval stages of a lot of grain pests are susceptible to their eugenol. [0,1]

For anything long term I pour the flour out onto long trays, let it reach 0°F/-18°C in my freezer and keeping it there for 3 days, then storing it in food safe 5-gallon buckets with bay leaves and oxygen absorbers, though some also use dry ice. [2]

weevils/beetles all absolutely suck.

[0] - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/096708797229040?...

[1] - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/096708799227950

[2] - https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=...

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by kragen on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:34PM (#36048781)
these are great tips! i recently bought some of the buckets (pp), and I've been freezing all my grains and legumes upon purchase for a long time for exactly that reason

i'd be nervous about putting dry ice in a hermetically sealed container like a bucket

a thing i've noticed with storing food in plastic (pet) coke bottles is that they never seem to get beetles and that they tend to collapse a bit over the first year or so; i suspect that, even without a fe/nacl oxygen absorber, the food oxidizes enough to consume the oxygen initially present, which reduces the gas volume about 20 percent and kills any beetles initially present

my older notes on the topic are at https://dercuano.github.io/notes/food-storage.html

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by 7speter on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:24AM (#36041046)
Aren’t the weevil eggs just always in the flour?
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by 7speter on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:28AM (#36041077)
Nah, a cake with settled, minimally touched flour is dense and too… cakey. You take a fork and run the tines through settled flour thats been sitting for any length of time and you see you end up with much less fluffed up flour in a given volume. Now mix in cornstarch, for either cake or frying batter, and that helps prevent the gluten from forming when you mix in whatever liquid, keeping the texture of the cake or breaded whatever airy and light.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by denton-scratch on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:42AM (#36041591)
I think it's supposed to be to incorporate air.

I only sift flour if I'm making scones, it seems to make a difference. I'm not a cakey person, I don't bake cakes. It's cake bakers that tend to care about sifting.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by jonstewart on Monday May 22, 2023 @10:28PM (#36039095)
You can conceivably get a Maillard reaction with toasting some spices (e.g. cumin seed) where you wouldn’t just by throwing them in a stew. But I agree with your overall point. The 1-2 tbsp olive oil is -everywhere-. Also, better to use canola oil for browning meat.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by notatoad on Monday May 22, 2023 @10:43PM (#36039174)
1-2 tbsp of oil is enough to improve the thermal conductivity between the pan and the meat. you're not cooking the meat in that oil. then the meat starts releasing it's own oil (and water) and continues the process without needing additional oil.

if you don't put in a bit of oil, then you're searing one side in a dry pan, and the second side in an oiled pan. and if you're only putting a bit of oil in and it's all in contact with the meat there's really no reason to worry about smoke point, use whatever oil is handy.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by treeman79 on Monday May 22, 2023 @10:34PM (#36039126)
Canola is more likely to cause inflammation. Olive oil and coconut oil are much better from that stand point.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by explaininjs on Monday May 22, 2023 @10:41PM (#36039167)
Placebo effect is more likely to cause inflammation than anything. Ignorance is, scientifically, bliss.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-021-01365-x

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by misja111 on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:30AM (#36041092)
Olive oil is not the best choice for browning meat, because its burning point is too low. Once it burns, it will disintegrate into bitter byproducts, some of which are carcinogenic.

Canola oil has a high burning point so is a better choice, but if you really want to avoid it, sunflower oil is a good choice as well.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by bearmode on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @05:46AM (#36041995)
Light/refined olive oil has a smoke point of up to 470°F. You can sear meat anywhere between 400°F and 500°F.

There is absolutely no reason you can't sear meat with olive oil. You just have to use the light/refined stuff, and not the virgin/extra virgin (which have smoke points closer to 410°F.

Worth noting that canola oil, in the best case scenario, has a smoke point of 450°F.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by misja111 on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @07:29AM (#36042789)
I never said it was not possible to sear meat with olive oil. It is certainly possible, but you have to be more careful not to overheat your oil.

> Light/refined olive oil has a smoke point of up to 470°F.

Where did you get that number? Any source I found gives olive oil a burning point of at most 410F. E.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Smoke_point_of_cookin...

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by bearmode on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @08:04AM (#36043118)
Recheck the link you provided, look for refined olive oil. It's just the virgin olive oils that have the lower smoke points.

Also seriouseats puts it at 465°F https://www.seriouseats.com/cooking-fats-101-whats-a-smoke-p...

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by astrange on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:35AM (#36041132)
If you're worried about omega-6:3 ratios then canola oil is better than every other vegetable oil, including olive oil.

Also see https://www.the-nutrivore.com/post/a-comprehensive-rebuttal-...

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by wenc on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:15AM (#36040971)
Toasting spices can flavor your oil, but the Mailard reaction really only happens when amino acids react with reducing sugars, so nothing to do with spices at all.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by dagw on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @05:50AM (#36042012)
Olive oil is fine for browning as long as it isn't extra virgin olive oil. Refined olive oil can actually have a higher smoke pointe than rapeseed/canola oil.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by spoonjim on Monday May 22, 2023 @10:43PM (#36039178)
Restaurant quality is real and it’s because high end restaurants usually buy the best produce at wholesale and pay for stuff a grocery store can’t. For example they get much better blackberries in top restaurants because they need to be handled extremely gently when ripe: a grocery store can’t put that stuff out on shelves or it would get destroyed.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by pavlov on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:03AM (#36040880)
At the very high end, restaurants also get a quality edge by creatively using excessive labor — in other words using ingredients that are very hard to source, and doing things to food that are so tedious or complicated that nobody would try them at home.

One of the world’s most celebrated restaurants, Noma in Copenhagen, is closing soon. Their menu costs about $800 per person, but even at that price the business barely turns a profit and runs largely on unpaid interns who put in the endless hours of manual labor so they could have the famous restaurant on their CV:

https://www.ft.com/content/6377b292-d825-4b3a-8527-04d147551...

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by roel_v on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:28AM (#36041072)
Plus, restaurants can practice the same recipe again and again for months or years on end. It would be pretty damning if they wouldn't be better than home cooks after that much repetition.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by 7speter on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:33AM (#36041115)
Also salties (the ultra high heat broilers) and stoves that go from cold to the fires of hell in 3 seconds. Talk about caramelized anything…
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by jcrash on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:14AM (#36040552)
Nah dude, sifting flour totally makes better pancakes. They rise so much easier. I'm sure it helps for other baked goods as well
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by paranoidrobot on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:37AM (#36040709)
I'm going to bet that this one is going to depend in part on the particular product, and it's freshness/storage conditions, your location relative to the source mill, and ambient weather.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by ZiiS on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:01AM (#36040864)
Exactly; if sifting is better for people using old flour why on earth would a recipy skip it?
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by strken on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:27AM (#36040634)
I use one to two teaspoons of oil, which is just barely enough to coat the pan if you swirl it, and it works fine if the heat is right. You're not trying to shallow fry the meat in a sea of grease, just stop it sticking and get better thermal conductivity.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by quicklime on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:29AM (#36040648)
> “One tablespoon of olive oil” to brown absurd amounts of meat at high heat.

I love watching cooking videos where they say “a tablespoon of olive oil” and proceed to pour in half the bottle

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by guerrilla on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:49AM (#36040779)
If you need more than one tablespoon of oil then maybe you just don't know what you're doing. Meat contains fat and vegetables contain water. Consider learning patience (i.e. using lower heat) instead of criticizing people on the Internet for being better at cooking than you are.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by arrow7000 on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:29AM (#36041082)
Calm down there bucko
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by misja111 on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:32AM (#36041104)
Good luck trying to sear a steak on low heat.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by guerrilla on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @06:45AM (#36042383)
You start it lower abd increasevthe heat after fat is released or just use a cast iron pan.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by misja111 on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @07:22AM (#36042731)
This won't work. Together with fat, juice is released as well. As long as there is liquid water, temperature won't go over 100C so you're effectively boiling your meat and not browning it.

Searing your meat only goes at temperatures that are high enough to immediately evaporate any escaping liquid.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by guerrilla on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @08:05AM (#36043133)
It definitely works in a cast iron pan. Just try it.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by misja111 on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @08:45AM (#36043460)
You mean, use a cast iron pan at high heat? Yeah that definitely works, it's standard practice in professional kitchens to do it like that.

But at low heat it will not. Or well, eventually your meat will brown, but first your steak will have boiled for a while so you'll never be able to serve your steak rare or medium rare.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by Centigonal on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:50AM (#36040786)
sauteing spices makes a noticeable difference, according to this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsYzWK3cxOM&t=840
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by runnerup on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:02AM (#36040876)
I can't respect any claim that toasting cumin seeds on the stove doesn't add new flavors to the cumin seed that did not exist before toasting.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by calmoo on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @06:02AM (#36042074)
By that logic, why cook anything then? It makes a big difference! https://www.seriouseats.com/toast-grind-whole-spices-for-mor...
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by explaininjs on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @06:14AM (#36042147)
Parent agrees, they can’t respect a claim that toasting doesn’t add flavors.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by calmoo on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @07:30AM (#36042796)
Ah - it was phrased strangely.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by thiht on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @09:31AM (#36043974)
That's way too many negations, I have no idea what you want to say
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by carabiner on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:52AM (#36040805)
Wait 30 minutes for your steak to reach room temperature.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by denton-scratch on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:39AM (#36041582)
I season before bringing the steak to room temperature; and after seasoning I leave it standing for a good hour.

The idea is that salt on the outside of the steak initially draws moisture out of the steak, making it dry. But given enough time, the salt penetrates deeper into the steak, and holds the moisture in.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by ZiiS on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:02AM (#36040872)
Most other oils work better at high heat; some recipies are just bad.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by xxs on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:02AM (#36040875)
The rituals are all bullshit, course.

Yet, "sifting flour" was a thing years back... not the one bought in the store but the one stored in large sacks, and ground in the local mill. The amount of lumps sifted out was non-trivial.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by WouterSpaak on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:28AM (#36041516)
"Lumps" being a nice euphemism for bugs.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by omnicognate on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:34AM (#36041127)
Don't underestimate the amount of butter and (Maldon sea) salt I'm willing to use at home.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by ReptileMan on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:02AM (#36041345)
Sifting makes sense if you knead by hand - makes absorption easier. Toasting spices in a little oil - spices release flavor into the oil and your kitchen smells awesome. Meat also releases fat when browned. So it is kind of self sustaining.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by denton-scratch on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:49AM (#36041630)
> Toasting spices in a little oil

Whether you dry-roast or toast in oil depends on what you're trying to achieve; if you want flavoured oil for something like a tadka, then you use oil. Dry roasting to season e.g. a curry produces different flavours. It's also harder; different spices burn at different speeds, so for example add cumin first and turmeric last. burnt turmeric is very bitter.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by minusf on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @06:40AM (#36042349)
> Pretending “restaurant quality” is anything besides twice as much butter and salt as you’d dare use at home.

until you read Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat and start watching the epicurious yt channel.

the "4 levels" and "pro chef vs home cook" epicurious playlists are amazing eye openers, where they exactly highlight the actual difference in skills and knowledge.

but sure, anyone can cook well, even a rat.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by jacobp100 on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @08:15AM (#36043208)
Sifting flour is absolutely essential if you’re adding it to a liquid. Sometimes you can get away without sifting if you mix a few dry ingredients first then add liquid on top. If you get it wrong, the flour clumps up tiny grains and never separates. You can end up with really grainy cheese cake
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by SamBam on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @09:07AM (#36043703)
Plenty of spices distribute their flavors better in oils/fats than in water.

Take some szechuan peppercorns and boil them in a soup and see if you feel the ma numbing sensation. Then saute them in oil for a few minutes and then add the soup, and notice the difference.

It's the same with lots of spices.