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Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by explaininjs on Monday May 22, 2023 @10:27PM (#36039091)
Spices in a stew will only ever possibly reach 212. When blasted on dry heat they can get higher.

The tablespoon of olive oil is to kickstart the process, after that enough fat will render out of the meat to keep it going.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by yamtaddle on Monday May 22, 2023 @10:45PM (#36039190)
> The tablespoon of olive oil is to kickstart the process, after that enough fat will render out of the meat to keep it going.

Agreed on meat, but I consistently see way-too-small amounts of oil suggested for cooking veggies, too. It's like every recipe writer online got together and decided that 1) they must specify oil quantities for those steps, but 2) the quantity must never exceed one tablespoon.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by explaininjs on Monday May 22, 2023 @10:47PM (#36039208)
I wonder to what extent it’s attempts to game the auto-nutrition facts.

That said, is anyone actually measuring a tablespoon of oil? I just pour a glug of a size proportional to the ingredients and adjust as needed.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by freddie_mercury on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:24AM (#36040614)
Everyone has to start somewhere.

If you take a university student who has just left home and never cooked for themselves and tell them "just pour a glug proportional to the ingredients"...that's pretty close to useless for them, especially since they don't yet an intuition for what things you can freehand (and how much you can freehand them) and which things you shouldn't.

After all, you (probably) wouldn't ever say "I just open the Morton's salt and pour a glug in" because getting salt wrong even by relatively small amounts has a big impact on the final dish.

That said, I agree with you that recipe writers usually do a poor job of laying which things fall more on the "suggested amount, you can just eye ball it" end of the spectrum and which ones are "you should really pull out at least a spoon to get close on this one".

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by OJFord on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:42AM (#36041593)
> After all, you (probably) wouldn't ever say "I just open the Morton's salt and pour a glug in" because getting salt wrong even by relatively small amounts has a big impact on the final dish.

Not GP and I wouldn't phrase it quite like that - but I definitely would. You can give a rough indication, but salt should be added to taste.

(Unless we're talking about baking, where for one thing you can't taste until the end anyway. In that case yes of course measure, still to taste, but the feedback loop is longer.)

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by astura on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @09:52AM (#36044295)
>After all, you (probably) wouldn't ever say "I just open the Morton's salt and pour a glug in" because getting salt wrong even by relatively small amounts has a big impact on the final dish.

No, but you do, almost universally, say "salt to taste." Which is a different way to say the same thing.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by sublinear on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:35AM (#36040688)
Vegetables can release a lot of water. The amount and how much it affects the other ingredients varies significantly on which you put in, in what order, how much, and in what size of pan. If the pan is crowded, has high walls, or a lid, that can also affect how much water stays in the pan.

I can't think of any situation where I would want more than a literal tablespoon of oil for cooking the first veggies thrown in (usually onion). By the time the onions have begun to caramelize there's is enough water that the original tablespoon of oil is no longer significant.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by AlotOfReading on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:56AM (#36040833)
The first step in carmelization is to remove most of that water so the onions can reach maillard reaction temps. Try doing it without oil and an equivalent amount of water instead. It's much more temperamental.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by sublinear on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:06AM (#36040896)
> The first step in carmelization is to remove most of that water

Where did I say it wasn't?

Anyway, about adding water, I respectfully disagree. The oil is necessary and it really is a tablespoon in a shallow and uncrowded pan with the lid off.

EDIT: I'm specifically talking about browning some onions when called for as an initial step in a recipe, not for making a huge batch of them for use as a condiment. Cutting the onion into finer pieces also speeds things up.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by extortionist on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:59AM (#36041319)
America's Test Kitchen actually does suggest adding water to reduce the amount of time needed for caramelization--and not an equivalent amount of water, but much more than the amount of oil you'd use.

The idea is that adding water, raising it to a boil, and covering the pan reduces the amount of time needed to raise the temperature of the onions to the caramelization point, more than offsetting the amount of time needed to remove the water itself. That plus adding some baking soda near the end reduces the overall time considerably.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovqhzil3wJw

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by sublinear on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:12AM (#36041400)
I'd rather not comment about the reliability of ATK because that would be missing the point, but their recipe seems overly fussy and anyway they cut their onions too long in that video. I think it's kind of gross when you have dangling onion strands.

Slow cook them first for a few hours at a low temperature and then caramelize after. All your onion in a dry pot. Don't add water. Strain them when done and you have... soggy pale onions. Heat up the biggest pan you have and add some butter to do the caramelization (don't crowd the pan like they do in their video). Add some good balsamic vinegar and brown sugar while you're at it. Be sure to make a huge batch so you can freeze some for later. Don't bag and freeze before letting the onions come to room temperature. It's a lot of water in them onions man, but you can use that strained out water for a vegetable stock!

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by thomasfromcdnjs on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:17AM (#36041438)
I've got my own invented version of this style. I will boil them in a cm of water or something at the perfect time it evaporates I then add the oil.

I don't like them like the Americans do but there is lots of to play with it. (I've even started boiling onions whole before I use them in a bunch of other dishes)

Highly recommend it.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by com2kid on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:15AM (#36041423)
> I can't think of any situation where I would want more than a literal tablespoon of oil for cooking the first veggies thrown in (usually onion).

I have a few recipes that call for browning onions in a cup (or more!) of ghee.

Works wonderfully. Still takes forever.

There are many ways to brown onions, all of them suck. I tried the "boil in water first" method while back, that works OK ish.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by bluGill on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @09:34AM (#36044035)
> I can't think of any situation where I would want more than a literal tablespoon of oil for cooking the first veggies thrown in

I've helped cook at a camp where 500 people were going to eat the meal. That requires very different thinking from large family cooking where at most 20 people are eating, and a small family is different as well.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by 7speter on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:21AM (#36041023)
Its like watching gordon rsay cooking videos where he says you need a “knob” of butter and he just grabs half a stick and throws that in the pan.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by dunham on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @12:25AM (#36039813)
I agree on the temperature thing, but also there are some flavor compounds that are fat soluble and not water soluble.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by tuatoru on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:55AM (#36040819)
The thing that makes spices spices is volatile light aromatic oils.

Blast them on high heat and you drive off most of them, and polymerize the rest to creosotes.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by explaininjs on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @12:11PM (#36046390)
Yet this act is a staple of Indian cuisine. The key is knowing what spices in what forms can take how much heat. Whole pods of cumin or peppercorns for example can benefit from browning without the entire structure burning.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by firstlink on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:07AM (#36040904)
> Spices in a stew will only ever possibly reach 212. When blasted on dry heat they can get higher.

Some claim that this is a thing when making rice too. I've tried toasting the grains for a few minutes before adding the water to boil, but I can't say I can tell the difference. Maybe that's a time issue like the onions, or maybe it just doesn't do anything...

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by com2kid on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:13AM (#36041409)
> Some claim that this is a thing when making rice too. I've tried toasting the grains for a few minutes before adding the water to boil, but I can't say I can tell the difference. Maybe that's a time issue like the onions, or maybe it just doesn't do anything...

Quite a few Indian dishes require toasting the rice first, if you don't you will end up with a very different dish. In the right context, it makes a huge difference.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by onion2k on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:19AM (#36041009)
Temperatures expressed without a unit are in Kelvin, so 212 is really cold. It's -78.07°F.
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by BrandoElFollito on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:28AM (#36041076)
No, temperatures without a unit are not temperatures.

When I was teaching 20 ago I would have given you a 2 for that. I happen to have a PhD in so I am knowledgeable about that matter.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by EdwardDiego on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:33AM (#36041537)
> I happen to have a PhD

Good for you.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by OJFord on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:37AM (#36041572)
Whether or not GP is actually a PhD, that was a joke about lack of units. (20 what ago, a 2 on what scale, a PhD in what)
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by tpoacher on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @08:02AM (#36043098)
Strictly speaking a PhD isn't a PhD "in" something. It is simply a PhD (a doctorate in philosophy).

Obviously philosophy isn't that informative a term, so people try to be helpful by adding what field or topic their actual research was about.

Some vocational/applied higher degrees in specific fields do have specific initials to differentiate them from a "generic" PhD (for example, the EngD).

Apologies for ++pedantry :)

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by OJFord on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @08:27AM (#36043308)
Sure. But it was the commenter writing the misunderstood joke that said 'PhD in' (just omitted the next word), I was just explaining that.

> people try to be helpful by adding what field or topic their actual research was about

Right, and a common way to do that is to say 'PhD in blah', or 'on bazzing foobars for blah' as though 'PhD' referred specifically to their thesis.

Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by BrandoElFollito on Tuesday May 30, 2023 @06:45AM (#36123312)
This is also why in non-English speaking countries, this title usually does not have any relation to philosophy. It is "Doctorate in something".
Re:Why do recipe writers lie and lie about how long it takes... by throwaway81523 on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:27AM (#36041064)
> Spices in a stew will only ever possibly reach 212.

I'm not any kind of cooking whiz but I always use an instant pot (electric pressure cooker) for stuff like that, so it gets up to 230 or so, I think.