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Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by preommr on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:24AM (#38347623)
What the hell?

So far, I underestood the chaos as a matter of principle - yes it was messy but necessary to fix the company culture that Ilya's camp envisioned.

If you're going to make a move, at least stand by it. This tweet somehow makes the context of the situation 10x worse.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by Jensson on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:28AM (#38347672)
Normal people can't take being at the center of a large controversy, the amount of negativity and hate you have to face is massive. That is enough to make almost anyone backtrack just to make it stop.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by ethbr1 on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:40AM (#38347851)
It's depressing how few people are able to not look at the internet and turn off their phone.

There's no obligation to read things about yourself.

If you did what you thought was right, stand by it and take the heat.

Disconnect. Go to work. Do the work. Read a book or watch some TV after work. Go to bed. Wait a few weeks. $&#@ the world.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by anonylizard on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:50AM (#38348024)
LOL, you speak as if he's some gamer who just got screamed at on Call of Duty.

He is now the 'effective CEO' of OpenAI. He still has to go to work tomorrow, faced with an incredibly angry staff who just got their equity vaporized, with majority in open rebellion and quitting to join Microsoft.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by qwebfdzsh on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:56AM (#38348110)
> got their equity vaporized

Did anyone have equity though? I thought they (at least some) had some profit sharing agreements which I assume would only be worth something if OpenAI was ever profitable?

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by filmgirlcw on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:25AM (#38348683)
There was a tender offer for employee shares valuing the company at $87b that was pulled because of this. Those would’ve been secondary share purchases by Thrive but gave employees a liquidity event. Now that’s off the table.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by anonylizard on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:11AM (#38348413)
OpenAI was guaranteed to be profitable, extremely so, if they just continued down the path Sam layed out like a week ago.

Now its guaranteed to generate 0 profits, so all that 'profit share/pseudoequity' is worth nothing.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by qwebfdzsh on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:26AM (#38348707)
> OpenAI was guaranteed to be profitable, extremely so,

Was it though? I'd agree that it was almost guaranteed to have a very high valuation. However profitability is a slightly different matter.

Depending on their arrangements/licensing agreements/etc much of those potential profits could've just went to MS/Azure directly.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by edgyquant on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:18AM (#38348546)
> Now its guaranteed to generate 0 profit

Literal fan fiction

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by acjohnson55 on Monday November 20, 2023 @11:01AM (#38349787)
Developing, training, and running AI models is not cheap, and it's very much an open question of whether the money users are willing to pay covers the cost.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by matwood on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:05AM (#38348290)
> who just got their equity vaporized

You've just pointed out the big issue with a non-profit. There is no equity to vaporize, so no one is kept in check with their fantastical whims. You and I can say 'safe AI' and mean completely different things, but profitable next quarter has a single meaning.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by PeterisP on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:22AM (#38348627)
All of the employees work for (and many have equity in ) for a for-profit organization which is owned partially by the non-profit who controls everything and Microsoft. The non-profit is effectively a shell to overview the actual operations and that's it.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by ethbr1 on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:56AM (#38348119)
There was no outcome from this where substantial amounts of equity weren't vaporized.

It's difficult to see how that would have been a surprise.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by malfist on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:04AM (#38348263)
What equity?
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by ethbr1 on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:16AM (#38348496)
The "there was no equity, because it was a non-profit" argument is stressing the term.

At least Microsoft thought it bought something for $13B.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by JAlexoid on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:55AM (#38349138)
When a wealthy person gives a museum much money and get a seat on the board of trustees - does that also mean that they "bought the museum"?
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by ethbr1 on Monday November 20, 2023 @02:08PM (#38352838)
They didn't buy nothing. See things museums and institutions will do for wealthy donors, that they won't do for anyone else.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by JAlexoid on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:01PM (#38354685)
I'm not saying that wealthy donors don't get anything. Wealthy donors don't own the museum, just because they provided funding to the museum.

Just as wealthy donors to medical research don't get to own the results of the research their money funded.

Just as Microsoft doesn't get to own a part of Linux, for donating to The Linux Foundation.

Etc...

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by ethbr1 on Monday November 20, 2023 @07:01PM (#38356832)
OpenAI is definitely on the "less" side of charity.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by WrongAssumption on Monday November 20, 2023 @01:58PM (#38352689)
"OpenAI PPUs: How OpenAI's unique equity compensation works"

https://www.levels.fyi/blog/openai-compensation.html

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by hresvelgr on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:58AM (#38348145)
> It's depressing how few people are able to not look at the internet and turn off their phone.

> There's no obligation to read things about yourself.

That's assuming the worst thing that happens is people speak poorly of you after a debacle. It's also human to feel compelled to know what people think of us, as unhealthy as that might be in some cases. It gets worse when maladjusted terminally-online malignants make it a point to punish you for your mistakes by stalking you through email, phones, or in real life. It's not that simple.

> If you did what you thought was right, stand by it and take the heat.

Owning what you did is noble, but you certainly don't have to stand by it well after you know its wrong.

edit: typo

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by willcipriano on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:05AM (#38348281)
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by mohamez on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:18AM (#38348540)
>If you did what you thought was right, stand by it and take the heat.

What if it turned out to totally wrong? standing by it would just make thing even worse.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by codetrotter on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:47AM (#38349035)
> There's no obligation to read things about yourself.

If only it was that simple.

The internet mob will happily harass your friends and family too, for something they feel you did wrong.

And on top of that are people in the mob who feel compelled to take real world action.

It is actually dangerous, to be the focus point of the anger of any large group of people online.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by kredd on Monday November 20, 2023 @11:45AM (#38350304)
I’m a bit confused with these comments, as if he is some low level engineer. He is on the board, he obviously talks to other people in the upper levels. It’s not just online mob whatsoever, you literally will be facing the people who aren’t supporting your actions. Every day.

Some people change their minds, maybe they made a mistake, nobody knows. It’s like fog of war, and everyone just makes speculations without any evidence.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by dang on Monday November 20, 2023 @12:13PM (#38350766)
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38347672.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by selcuka on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:48AM (#38347964)
Normal people don't burn a multi billion dollar company to the ground with a spontaneous decision either. They plan for the backlash.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by Jensson on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:52AM (#38348046)
> They plan for the backlash

You can't plan for something you have never experienced. Being hated by a large group of people is a very different feeling from getting hated by an individual, you don't know if you can handle it until it happens to you.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by anonylizard on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:57AM (#38348130)
You can plan for something you've never experienced. You read, or learn from other people's experiences.

Normal people know not to burn a $80 billion company to the ground in a weekend. Ilya was doing something unprecedented in corporate history, and astounding he wasn't prepared to face the world's fury over it.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by Jensson on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:13AM (#38348458)
> You can plan for something you've never experienced. You read, or learn from other people's experiences.

Text doesn't convey emotions, and our empathy doesn't work well for emotions we have never experienced. You can see a guy that got kicked in the balls got hurt, but that doesn't mean you are prepared to endure the pain of getting kicked in your balls or that you even understand how painful it is.

Also watching politicians it looks like you can just brush it off, because that is what they do. But that requires a lot of experience, not anyone can do it, it is like watching a boxing match and think you can easily stand after a hard punch in your stomach.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by selcuka on Monday November 20, 2023 @10:13AM (#38349332)
> You can see a guy that got kicked in the balls got hurt, but that doesn't mean you are prepared to endure the pain of getting kicked in your balls or that you even understand how painful it is.

Sure, but you do your best not to be kicked in the balls.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by SilasX on Monday November 20, 2023 @02:05PM (#38352792)
Yep. Or, if you're running an immense, well-funded organization that is gauging the consequences of a plan that involves being kicked in the balls, you take a tiny sliver of those funds and get some advisors to appraise you of what to expect when being kicked in the balls, not just wing it/"fake it till you make it". (As it turns out, faking not being in severe pain is tricky.)
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by gemstones on Monday November 20, 2023 @12:36PM (#38351221)
Ilya torched peoples' retirements by signaling that it would be very hard to cash out in OpenAI as it is now. You don't have to be emotional to understand the consequence of that action, just logical. You have to think beyond your own narrow perspective for a minute.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by rrr_oh_man on Monday November 20, 2023 @01:05PM (#38351740)
Where did he do that? Genuine question.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by gemstones on Monday November 20, 2023 @01:20PM (#38352015)
The board vote did it! They had a tender offer in the works that would have made employees millionaires. The board clearly signaled that they viewed the money-making aspects of the company as something to dial back, which in turn either severely lessens the value of that tender offer or prevents it from happening.

I mean, he didn't have a button on his desk that said, "torch the shares", but he ousted the CEO as a way to cut back on the things that might have meant profit. Did he think that everyone was going to continue to want to give them money after they signal a move away from profit motives? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to think that one through.

I think he was just preoccupied with AI safety, and didn't give a thought to the knock on effects for investors of any stripe. He's clearly smart enough to, he just didn't care enough to factor it into his plans.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by aleph_minus_one on Monday November 20, 2023 @01:26PM (#38352111)
I do believe OpenAI clearly signalled from the very beginning what the (complicated) company structure is about and what risks this means for any potential investor (or employee hoping to become rich).

If you project your personal hopes which are different from this into the hype, this is your personal problem.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by gemstones on Monday November 20, 2023 @01:36PM (#38352293)
Well, with the hollowing out of OpenAI, it seems that someone else will easily take the lead! They're not my personal hopes - this move destroyed OpenAI's best chance at retaining control over cutting edge AI as well. They destroyed their own hopes.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by SoftTalker on Monday November 20, 2023 @01:17PM (#38351951)
Torched retirements? Who is dumb enough to have his retirement portfolio that weighted to one company?
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by samspenc on Monday November 20, 2023 @01:53PM (#38352603)
The OpenAI employees who are planning to resign en-masse for exactly this reason.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by CamperBob2 on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:36PM (#38355192)
They'll squeak by.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by endtime on Monday November 20, 2023 @12:48PM (#38351421)
> You read, or learn from other people's experiences...Ilya was doing something unprecedented in corporate history

So whose experiences was he supposed to read about?

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by CamperBob2 on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:37PM (#38355207)
Yevgeny Prigozhin's?
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by bbarnett on Monday November 20, 2023 @01:29PM (#38352169)
He hasn't ever posted to reddit?
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by ChainOfFools on Monday November 20, 2023 @12:30PM (#38351129)
Is it possible that someone in Ilya's position can be unaware of just how staggeringly enormous a phenomenon he is sitting on top of ( and thus have no idea how to evaluate the scale of the backlash that would result?)

I would say the answer is, demonstrably yes:

https://techcrunch.com/2010/09/29/google-excite/

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by bbarnett on Monday November 20, 2023 @01:29PM (#38352155)
This is fair, but understand, Google bought would probably not be Google we have.

To think it would grow just as fast, or in the ways it did? Acquires are seldom left alone to do magic.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by asdfasdfsadf22 on Monday November 20, 2023 @12:39PM (#38351270)
Have you ever had a bad day? The consequences for people in power is about 1 million times bigger and more public.

Sutskever didn't get on the board by cunning politicking and schmoozing like most businesspeople with that sort of position. He's an outstanding engineer without upper management skills. Every meet one of those?

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by geodel on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:23PM (#38355023)
Outstandingly clueless seems more appropriate.

I haven't people any reasonably intelligent person so unaware of real world that they can berate a colleague so publicly and officially and think "Hey! I am sorry man" will do the trick.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by razodactyl on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @06:43PM (#38372279)
Clueless is a word to use... I think Ilya got screwed over by corporate swindling and made a mistake that's all. As a smart idiot I can resonate with the guy - you don't make that mistake twice. I like to believe the push for prosperity is still a mutual goal and the board drama is an unfortunate setback to overcome.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by throw555chip on Monday November 20, 2023 @01:26PM (#38352114)
There were plenty of hyped crypto coin companies supposedly worth billions too and we found out otherwise.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by eli_gottlieb on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:21PM (#38354996)
Normal people don't have multi-billion dollar companies to burn because they back off in the face of haters long before they get to that stage.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by mcphage on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:30PM (#38355109)
> Normal people don't burn a multi billion dollar company to the ground with a spontaneous decision either.

Has OpenAI been burnt to the ground?

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by Turing_Machine on Monday November 20, 2023 @06:31PM (#38356532)
Three CEOs in as many days, founders departing, and more than 600 employees out of 770 signing an open letter threatening to quit seems pretty burny.

And it's just Monday afternoon.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by mcphage on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:21PM (#38358144)
600 employees quitting would be burny. 600 employees signing a letter saying they’re going to quit isn’t quite there.

3 CEOs in 3 days, isn’t burny, either. There’s the guy they fired, the person they had take on the role so they have someone in the role, and then someone they hired to be CEO. I guess they could have gotten that down to 2 by jumping immediately to their intended replacement, but not having them ready to start immediately doesn’t seem odd.

And yeah, it’s just Monday afternoon. If in the next few days, a sizable chunk of those who threatened to quit do so, then that would be burny. But we ain’t there yet.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by anoy8888 on Monday November 20, 2023 @10:53AM (#38349712)
So is Adam D'Angelo the true villain who is still insisting on the bad decision? I am confused, to be honest .
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by TheOtherHobbes on Monday November 20, 2023 @12:57PM (#38351591)
Everyone is confused.

It's impressively operatic. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by x0x0 on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:38PM (#38355225)
The inability to clearly and publicly -- or even if not publicly, to the OpenAI employees! -- explain a rationale for this is simply astounding.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by tarsinge on Monday November 20, 2023 @12:37PM (#38351232)
I think they underestimated the hate of an internet crowd post crypto and meme stocks, now completely blindsided by the investment angle especially in the current AI hype. Like why do people now care so much about Microsoft seriously? Or Altman? I can see why Ilya only focused on the real mission could miss how the crowd could perceive a threat to their future investment opportunities, or worse threatening the whole AI hype.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by appplication on Monday November 20, 2023 @01:22PM (#38352033)
I think you’re right about all of this, but this was doomed from the start. Everybody wants to invest in OpenAI because they see the rocket and want to ride, but the company is fundamentally structured to disallow typical frothy investment mentality.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by theamk on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:20PM (#38354983)
I think the interest is because ChatGPT is so famous, even in non-tech circles.

"Terraform raised prices, losing customers"? whatever, I never heard about it.

"ChatGPT's creators have internal disagreement, losing talent"? OH NO what if ChatGPT dies, who is going to answer my questions?? panic panic hate hate...

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by stcredzero on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:02PM (#38354704)
Normal people can't take being at the center of a large controversy, the amount of negativity and hate you have to face is massive. That is enough to make almost anyone backtrack just to make it stop.

This is the cheapest and most cost-effective way to run things as an authoritarian -- at least in the short term.

If one is not "made of sterner stuff" -- to the point where one is willing to endure scorn for the sake of the truth: - Then what are you doing in a startup, if working in one - One doesn't have enough integrity to be my friend

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by Paul-Craft on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:41AM (#38347864)
It's pretty simple, isn't it? He made a move. It went bad. Now he's trying to dodge the blast. He just doesn't understand that if he just shut the fuck up, after everything else that's gone on (seriously, 2 interim CEOs in 2 days?), nobody would be talking about him today.

The truth is, this is about the only thing about the whole clown show that makes any sense right now.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by foobarian on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:45AM (#38347927)
> 2 interim CEOs in 2 days

Wait what? Did Murati get booted?

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by qwebfdzsh on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:53AM (#38348060)
Supposedly she was "scheming" to get Altman back. Which I guess could possibly mean that she wasn't aware of the whole "plan" and they just assumed she'll get in line? Or that she had second thoughts maybe... Either way pretty fascinating.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by dpkirchner on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:49AM (#38347991)
Today's OpenAI CEO is Emmett Shear (former CEO of Twitch).
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by ethbr1 on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:55AM (#38348095)
That this is a legitimate comment thread about something fairly important is mind boggling.

What odds would you have had to offer at the beginning of last week on a bet that this is where we'd be on Monday?

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by bombcar on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:58AM (#38349182)
At this rate Musk will be CEO by Wednesday
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by orangepurple on Monday November 20, 2023 @12:21PM (#38350924)
The mother of some of his kids was on the board for a while.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by strangattractor on Monday November 20, 2023 @01:29PM (#38352166)
Open AI's value is already zero - Musk no longer has anything to bring to the table.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by thrill on Monday November 20, 2023 @01:35PM (#38352265)
His winning personality?
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by barkingcat on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:31PM (#38355131)
Musk can fire anyone who stayed.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by alas44 on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:55PM (#38355456)
If you want to see odds, what people bet and how it evolved during this (still on-going) story: https://polymarket.com/markets?_q=openai
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by code_runner on Monday November 20, 2023 @10:21AM (#38349404)
tune in tomorrow for "who wants to be a CEO"!
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by zeeshanmh215 on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:51AM (#38348033)
Murati was yesterday's CEO
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by johanj on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:48AM (#38347970)
They hired the Emmett Shear (Twitch co-founder) as a new interim CEO: https://www.theverge.com/2023/11/20/23968848/openai-new-ceo-...
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by zyang on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:22PM (#38355009)
A scab ceo is not something I expected. This timeline is strange.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by sebzim4500 on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:50AM (#38348020)
Yeah they replaced her after she tried to rehire Sam and Greg seemingly against the board's wishes.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by tedivm on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:48AM (#38347972)
She didn't get booted from the company, but they did find a new interim CEO (the former twitch CEO).
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by jacquesm on Monday November 20, 2023 @11:39AM (#38350222)
You blinked. That's on you. When you look the other way for 15 minutes you have two hours of reading to catch up with.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by tedmiston on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:09PM (#38354805)
She was the first signature on the letter requesting the board to resign or the employees would go to MS, so...
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by steveBK123 on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:50AM (#38348008)
I mean phrased differently its the 3rd CEO in 4 days, haha.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by wslh on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:30AM (#38347708)
Yes, I cannot believe smart people of that caliber is sending too much Noise.

It reminds me of my friend at a Mensa meeting where they cannot agree at basic organization points like in a department consortium.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by aleph_minus_one on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:42AM (#38347890)
> Yes, I cannot believe smart people of that caliber is sending too much Noise.

Being smart and/or being a great researcher does not mean that the respective person is a good "politician". Quite some great researchers are bad at company politics, and quite some people who do great research leave academia because they became crushed by academic politics.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by herval on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:50AM (#38348016)
different kinds of smarts. Ilya is allegedly a brilliant scientist. Doesn't make him a brilliant business person automatically
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by fl7305 on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:21AM (#38348609)
As illustrated in Breaking Bad when they carry a barrel instead of rolling it.

Book smarts versus street smarts.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by eastbound on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:00AM (#38348193)
Managing a large org requires a lot of mundane techniques, and probably a personal-brand manager and personal advisers.

It’s extremely boring and mundane and political and insulting to anyone’s humanity. People who haven’t dedicated their life to economics, such as researchers and idealists, will have a hard time.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by lawlessone on Monday November 20, 2023 @10:51AM (#38349689)
Ha I remember joining that when I was 16, I just wanted the card. They gave a sub to the magazine and it was just people talking about what it was like to be in Mensa.

It felt the same as certain big German supermarket chain that publishes it's own internal magazine with articles from employees, company updates etc

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by burnished on Monday November 20, 2023 @01:02PM (#38351685)
Are you talking about Aldi's? Cause if so maybe they got something figured out, their store locations that I've been in the states are great (only exposure to them though). Only check out I've seen where the employees have chairs
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by lawlessone on Monday November 20, 2023 @05:34PM (#38355880)
Their brother , but probably the same thing. Chairs at checkouts are the norm here though. Hard place to work but they beat all the others on pay.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by bagofsand on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:41AM (#38347863)
Serious psychological denial here. The board isn't some anonymous institution that somehow tricked and pulled him into this situation.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by concinds on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:44AM (#38347912)
Where did he say he was "tricked"? And what's with the anonymous insult?
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by FireBeyond on Monday November 20, 2023 @12:42PM (#38351320)
He doesn't say that, but to me he does use a little weasel wording, the whole passive voice "regret my participation in", when to all accounts so far, it seems that he was one of the instigators, and quite possibly the actual instigator of all this.

"regret my participation" sounds much more like "going along with it".

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by burnished on Monday November 20, 2023 @01:03PM (#38351701)
What is he supposed to say?
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by malfist on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:06AM (#38348308)
I'd hate to live in a world where learning from your mistakes is being "a weasel"
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by infecto on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:40AM (#38348923)
Is this learning from your mistakes though? "Deeply regret" is one of those statements that does not really mean much. There are what something like 6 board members? Three of which are employees, two of those that got removed from the board. He was the only voting board member who is also an employee and part of the original founding team if you will. These are assumptions on my part but I don't really suspect the other board members orchestrated this event. Its possible and I may be wrong but it is improbable. So lets work off the narrative that he orchestrated the event. He now "Deeply regret" its, not a "I made a mistake" and I am sorry. But he regrets the participation and how it plays out.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by Aunche on Monday November 20, 2023 @10:21AM (#38349407)
The weasely part is when he implied that he appears to defecting the blame to the board rather than accepting that he made a mistake. Even if the coup wasn't Ilya's idea in the first place, he was the lynchpin that made it possible.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by Aunche on Monday November 20, 2023 @10:21AM (#38349410)
The weasely part is when he appears to defecting the blame to the board rather than accepting that he made a mistake. Even if the coup wasn't Ilya's idea in the first place, he was the lynchpin that made it possible.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by dougmwne on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:18AM (#38348538)
I think it means that the Twitterverse got it wrong from the beginning. It wasn’t Ilya and his safety faction that did in OpenAI, it was Quora’s Adam D'Angelo and his competing Poe app. Ilya must have been successfully pressured and assured by Microsoft, but Adam must have held his ground.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by samspenc on Monday November 20, 2023 @01:56PM (#38352643)
Dang I completely forgot that D'Angelo and Quora have a product that directly competes with ChatGPT in the form of Poe.

Wouldn't that make this a conflict of interest, sitting on the board while running a competing product - and making a decision at the company he is on the board of to destroy said company and benefit his own product?

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by dougmwne on Monday November 20, 2023 @03:50PM (#38354507)
That certainly seems to be the scenario and explains his willingness to go scorched earth. I wonder what the motivations of the other 2 board members are. Could they just be burn it down AI Doomers?
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by realfeel78 on Monday November 20, 2023 @03:47PM (#38354475)
Poe uses LLMs from OpenAI and Anthropic.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by zyang on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:26PM (#38355062)
There were some rumors in the beginning that Adam D'Angelo used similar tactics to push out Quora cofounders. I thought it was too wild to be true.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by belter on Monday November 20, 2023 @12:07PM (#38350670)
For all that went down in the last 48 hours...would not surprise me if post above was made by Ilya himself ... be right back...need more popcorn...
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by tarruda on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:44AM (#38347913)
Seems like he's completely emotion driven at this point. I doubt anyone advising rationally would agree with sending this tweet
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by linuxftw on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:45AM (#38347920)
The board destroyed the company in one fell swoop. He's right to feel regret.

Personally, I don't think that Altman was that big of an impact, he was all business, no code, and the world is acting like the business side is the true enabler. But, the market has spoken, and the move has driven the actual engineers to side with Altman.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by hannofcart on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:03AM (#38348247)
Sorry, but how has the market spoken? Not sure how that would be possible considering that OpenAI is a private company.

If anyone is speaking up it's the OpenAI team.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by rockemsockem on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:22AM (#38348618)
Talent exists in a market too
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by dylan604 on Monday November 20, 2023 @01:17PM (#38351963)
Right, the job market has spoken and it now looks like nobody wants to be part of OAI and much rather be part of MSFT
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by somethingor on Monday November 20, 2023 @01:53PM (#38352606)
How does it look like that?
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by dylan604 on Monday November 20, 2023 @03:11PM (#38353888)
The fact that an overwhelming number of employees signed a letter of intent to quit and would join MSFT instead? How does it not look like that?
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by somethingor on Monday November 20, 2023 @07:43PM (#38357185)
Thanks, wasn’t aware of that context
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by politelemon on Monday November 20, 2023 @01:22PM (#38352040)
> The board destroyed the company in one fell swoop.

I'm just not familiar enough to understand, is it really destroyed or is this just a minor bump in OpenAI's reputation? They still have GPT 3.5/4 and ChatGPT which is very popular. They can still attract talent to work there. They should be good if they just proceed with business as usual?

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by astrange on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:21PM (#38354995)
They have ~770 employees and so far ~500 of them have promised to quit. It's a lot less appealing if you're not going to make millions, or have billions in donated Azure credits.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by strikelaserclaw on Monday November 20, 2023 @02:06PM (#38352804)
true but it takes a lot of money to run openai / chatgpt
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by hackerlight on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:50AM (#38348017)
> If you're going to make a move, at least stand by it.

Why would you stand by unintended consequences?

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by felipellrocha on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:20AM (#38348588)
When you watch Survivor (yes, the tv show), sometimes a player does a bad play, gets publicly caught, and has to go on a "I'm sorry" tour the next days. Came to mind after reading this tweet. He is not sorry for what he's done. He is sorry for getting caught.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by soderfoo on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:21AM (#38348615)
Watching this all unfold in the public is unprecedented (I think).

There has never been a company like OpenAI, in terms or governance and product, so I guess it makes sense that their drama leads us in to unchartered territory.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by dylan604 on Monday November 20, 2023 @01:14PM (#38351902)
recently, we've seen the 3D gaming engine company fall flat on its face and back pedal. We've seen Apple be wishy washy about CSAM scanning. We saw a major bank collapse in real time. I just wish there was a virtual popcorn company to invest in using some crypto.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by crispyambulance on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:27AM (#38348721)
They're just human beings, a small number of them, with little time and very little to go on as far as precedent goes.

That's not a big deal for a small company, but this one has billions at stake and arguably critical consequences for humanity in general.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by phreeza on Monday November 20, 2023 @10:00AM (#38349207)
Hard to know what is really going on, but I think one possibility is that the entire narrative around Ilyas "camp" was not what actually went down, and was just what the social media hive mind hallucinated to make sense of things based on very little evidence.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by throwaway4aday on Monday November 20, 2023 @03:32PM (#38354251)
Yes, I think there are a lot of assumptions based on the fact that Ilya was the one that contacted Sam and Greg but he may have just done that as the person on the board who worked closely with them. He for sure voted for whatever idiot plan got this ball rolling but we don't know what promises were made to him to get his backing.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by loaph on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:32PM (#38355135)
It's interesting how LLMs are prone to similar kinds of hallucinations
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by belter on Monday November 20, 2023 @10:58AM (#38349763)
When a situation becomes so absurd and complex that it defies understanding or logical explanation, you should...get more popcorn...
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by jacquesm on Monday November 20, 2023 @11:51AM (#38350368)
Hehe, I didn't see that twist at the end coming :)
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by bgirard on Monday November 20, 2023 @12:02PM (#38350562)
> If you're going to make a move, at least stand by it.

I see this is the popular opinion and that I'm going against it. But I've made decisions that I though were good at the time, and later I got more perspective and realize it was a terrible decision.

I think being able to admit you messed up, when you messed up is a great trait. Standing by your mistake isn't something I admire.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by corethree on Monday November 20, 2023 @12:36PM (#38351227)
No this isn't what's going on. Even when you admit your mistakes it's good to elucidate the reasoning behind why and what led up to the mistake in the first place.

Such a short vague statement isn't characteristic of a normal human who is genuinely remorseful of his prior decisions.

This statement is more characteristic of a person with a gun to his head getting forced to say something.

This is more likely what is going on. Powerful people are forcing this situation to occur.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by allarm on Monday November 20, 2023 @12:31PM (#38351136)
So when C level acts like a robot you don't like it and when they act like human beings you don't like it either. It's difficult to be a C-level I guess.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by geodel on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:38PM (#38355219)
Well yeah it is. Maybe its good point to remember when people ask Why in the world these C-level executives get paid so much?
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by corethree on Monday November 20, 2023 @12:33PM (#38351173)
It's obvious. The guy is making the statement with a gun pointed to his head. He has no opportunity to defend himself.

Those guns are metaphorical of course but this is essentially what is going on:

Someone with a lot of power and influence is making him say this.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by nostromo on Monday November 20, 2023 @12:53PM (#38351527)
I don’t believe it was ever about principles for Ilya. It was always his ego and a power grab.

When a board is unhappy with a highly-performing CEO’s direction, you have many meetings about it and you work towards a resolution over many months. If you can’t resolve things you announce a transition period. You don’t fire them out of the blue.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by politelemon on Monday November 20, 2023 @01:18PM (#38351969)
> you announce a transition period

Aaah that just explained a lot of departures I've seen at the past at some of my partner companies. There's always a bit of fluffy talk around them leaving. That makes a lot more sense.

Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by manasdaruka on Monday November 20, 2023 @12:56PM (#38351589)
I feel he just wanted to scare the person standing at the edge of the cliff, but the board actually pushed the person.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by barkingcat on Monday November 20, 2023 @05:02PM (#38355541)
this kind of thinking is avoiding responsibility. He is part of the board, so he acted to bring this about.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by panda888888 on Monday November 20, 2023 @03:09PM (#38353843)
I'm going to get downvoted for this, but I do wonder if Sam's firing wasn't Ilya's doing, hence the failure to take responsibility. OpenAI's board has been surprisingly quiet, aside from the first press release. So it's possible (although unlikely) that this wasn't driven by Ilya.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by leadingthenet on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:29PM (#38355091)
It wouldn't have gone through without his vote.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by panda888888 on Monday November 20, 2023 @05:02PM (#38355542)
My point is that it's possible that Ilya was not the driving force behind Sam's firing, even if he ultimately voted for it. If this is the case, it makes Ilya's non-apology apology a lot less weird.
Re:I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions by kyle_grove on Monday November 20, 2023 @11:28PM (#38359246)
It's possible, although contradicted by Brockman's statement, that Ilya voted merely to remove Brockman's board seat, and then was in the minority on the Altman vote.

I doubt this is what happened, but the reporting that Brockman was ousted from his board seat after Altman, and wasn't present in the board meeting that ousted Altman, doesn't make much sense either.