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Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by Volundr on Thursday June 24, 2021 @04:08PM (#27623131)
I got a new job recently after being at my old place almost 15-years. I've decided I'm doing things differently this time. All my work stuff is on my work equipment, all my personal on my personal, and never the two shall meet. I don't have e-mail or slack on my phone. I don't have personal e-mail on my work computer.

It's remarkable to me how much this has improved my life. It took some getting used to, but when I'm working I focus better on work, and when I'm not I unplug. It seems obvious yet somehow leaving work behind at the end of the day escaped me before.

Also as someone who used to run an IT department, it's shocking the degree that some people fail to realize their work equipment is well works. Personal e-mail on your work laptop, I get it. Your entire collection of photography celebrating the human form in your folder of the company shared drive, why would anyone think that's a good idea?

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by ip26 on Thursday June 24, 2021 @08:04PM (#27625515)
Calendar is what kills this approach for me. I am not two different people with two different calendars, I am one person with one calendar. Scheduling & making all my appointments is really troublesome with two separate calendars.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by kojeovo on Thursday June 24, 2021 @09:04PM (#27625948)
I provide access to my work one from my personal so I can view it on my personal when scheduling events and hide it otherwise. Works pretty well imo.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by avel on Thursday June 24, 2021 @09:09PM (#27626000)
Yep, that's the way to go. I do the same. Easy to do with Google Calendar.

In your work calendar: Settings -> Settings for My Calendars -> Access Permissions -> Get shareable link.

In your personal calendar: Other Calendars -> Subscribe to Calendar

With this, I've managed to remove all other traces of work from my personal phone.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by dvk13 on Thursday June 24, 2021 @09:28PM (#27626150)
TIL. Thanks!!
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by dataflow on Thursday June 24, 2021 @09:55PM (#27626325)
And it takes like 12+ hours to update....
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by nine_k on Thursday June 24, 2021 @11:52PM (#27626977)
To me it works instantly between Google calendars, and with a few minutes of delay between Google and Office365 calendars.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by killjoywashere on Friday June 25, 2021 @12:27AM (#27627150)
And if you are in a high security organization (DOD, banks) … good luck.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by Nitramp on Friday June 25, 2021 @01:22AM (#27627393)
> High Security organization (banks)

Hahahahahahaha. Good one.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by 411111111111111 on Friday June 25, 2021 @02:36AM (#27627774)
They usually have extreme security guidelines for employees. All external laptop ports disabled, so no way to plug in periphery nor connecting a tv for a presentation.

No internet access at on laptops or only with a sim card which only allows connections to the VPN bastion host etc. Direct Internet on premise is a no-go as well, obviously. So no checking stack overflow if you've got any issues

They still leave infrastructure with default passwords exposed to the internet and implement questionable password policies for their customers... But they do everything they can in order to sabotage their employees!

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by Clewza313 on Friday June 25, 2021 @02:32AM (#27627750)
Perhaps "high security process organization" is a better term.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by mcv on Friday June 25, 2021 @02:52AM (#27627865)
That's a good description. The invest a lot in highly secure technology and processes, and then ignore them out of convenience.

I work at a department that's all about data quality and integrity, and we have super bureaucratic processes to regulate access to data, but you don't want to know how much data lives in Excel files; an issue I'm constantly trying to address.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by dataflow on Friday June 25, 2021 @12:11AM (#27627065)
> with a few minutes of delay between Google and Office365 calendars

How in the world do you do that? Subscribe to Calendar isn't even possible with Office 365, right? You have to use From URL, to which you give the .ics URL, which Google Calendar normally pulls a couple times a day. Is there a different mechanism you use?

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by armatav on Thursday June 24, 2021 @10:03PM (#27626387)
Works until IT resets the passwords once a month and you have to renew access on your device, missing a meeting.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by mcny on Thursday June 24, 2021 @10:20PM (#27626496)
We should discourage this stupidity of expiring passwords wherever we can.

Maybe make it a point to put your passwords on a sticky note stuck on the monitor prominently on display if $work requires you to change passwords that frequently?

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by xkcd-sucks on Thursday June 24, 2021 @10:55PM (#27626677)
Nobody actually cares about the security of expiring passwords, it's just a line item on a checklist of official processes. And the people auditing it don't visit in person
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by mjevans on Friday June 25, 2021 @02:15AM (#27627671)
Your organization SHOULD follow NIST SP 800-63B Section 5.1.1.2

https://pages.nist.gov/800-63-FAQ/#q-b05

Q-B05: Is password expiration no longer recommended?

A-B05: SP 800-63B Section 5.1.1.2 paragraph 9 states:

“Verifiers SHOULD NOT require memorized secrets to be changed arbitrarily (e.g., periodically). However, verifiers SHALL force a change if there is evidence of compromise of the authenticator.”

Users tend to choose weaker memorized secrets when they know that they will have to change them in the near future. When those changes do occur, they often select a secret that is similar to their old memorized secret by applying a set of common transformations such as increasing a number in the password. This practice provides a false sense of security if any of the previous secrets has been compromised since attackers can apply these same common transformations. But if there is evidence that the memorized secret has been compromised, such as by a breach of the verifier’s hashed password database or observed fraudulent activity, subscribers should be required to change their memorized secrets. However, this event-based change should occur rarely, so that they are less motivated to choose a weak secret with the knowledge that it will only be used for a limited period of time.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by bostik on Friday June 25, 2021 @02:16AM (#27627678)
Both NIST and NCSC now actively discourage password expiration. And it took them only what, 30 years, to catch up with real-world best practices?

That said, there is a place for 30-day rotation. That's when the so-called "password" is actually a shared secret for extremely high-value systems. Payment gateways, for example.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by mcny on Friday June 25, 2021 @07:59AM (#27629639)
> That said, there is a place for 30-day rotation. That's when the so-called "password" is actually a shared secret for extremely high-value systems. Payment gateways, for example.

Should we even attempt to let the user define such shared secrets? If 30-day rotation is good, surely 30 second rotation is better? Perhaps we can replace such "passwords" with some kind of one time PIN (OTP) or some generated pass phrase only valid for n minutes?

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by bostik on Friday June 25, 2021 @11:42AM (#27632184)
Well, in this shared-secret case we're talking about "symmetric signing keys" (really: MAC keys). Those types of keys are not defined by the users, they are issued by the party you're connecting to and delivered over a known, reasonably secure out-of-band mechanism.

I am all for having transient secrets, but without an extremely well integrated and robust vault they would be unmanageable. Plus asymmetric handshakes are computationally really expensive, so you don't do them all the time.[ß] The 30-day rotation period for these types of secrets is merely a reasonable compromise between "assume all shared secrets will be compromised" and the human factor.

ß: a friend set up a dedicated payment gateway device for a UK challenger bank. For just one card issuer. That thing can supposedly run at 10Gb line rate, so doing asymmetric crypto frequently would murder performance and latency.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by vladvasiliu on Friday June 25, 2021 @01:24AM (#27627404)
This.

I've been confronted with exactly this a short while ago, and even produced Microsoft's official stance on this (against). But in the end, their argument really boiled down to "but my checklist says so".

Microsoft's [0] first entry of "Common approaches and their negative impacts". With a reference to the FTC website. [1]

[0] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/admin/misc/pa...

[1] https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/techftc/2016/03/time-r...

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by Tainnor on Friday June 25, 2021 @06:19AM (#27628967)
This is so infuriating. NIST has been advising against it for years by now and even Microsoft switched the official stance last year or so, but it still keeps being done out of inertia. It's also still in the AWS best practices (I unsuccessfully tried to argue against introducing it for our accounts).

Though, to be honest, at this point I believe that humanity should just abandon passwords for all but the most unimportant of things (e.g. your account on some hobbyist forum), at this point they just have too many downsides and most people seem to be unable to handle them properly.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by InvertedRhodium on Friday June 25, 2021 @01:20AM (#27627386)
Writing your password down in an insecure location will get you written up at most jobs, straight out fired at others.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by gcatalfamo on Friday June 25, 2021 @05:56AM (#27628853)
You do need them on the work calendar if you need to account for travel distance and time to the dentist before accepting that last minute meeting.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by jjav on Friday June 25, 2021 @02:48AM (#27627840)
> Calendar is what kills this approach for me.

If I have a personal thing during work hours I just block it off on the work calendar. No details, just "Not available".

Anything outside work hours doesn't need to be on a calendar.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by fragmede on Friday June 25, 2021 @05:16AM (#27628610)
> Anything outside work hours doesn't need to be on a calendar.

I'm happy that works for you, but for me or anyone else who can be absent minded sometimes, that does. not. work. I need a calendar to remember promises I've made to people about when and where I'll be. Tuesday I'm meeting a friend to catch up in person, Thursday I've got a birthday dinner to go to, there's a show on Friday that I have tickets to. Stack multiple events in a single night if you have a busy social life. That's not a ton of information to remember but human memory is imperfect, and that sort of information is in one ear and out the other for me.

Prior to pocket computers, I'd have a paper datebook to carry around (and lose), but thanks to modern technology, it's stored in the cloud and accessible for me at https://calendar.google.com.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by jjav on Friday June 25, 2021 @01:07PM (#27633503)
> Anything outside work hours doesn't need to be on a calendar.

Can't edit original, but what I meant there is that it doesn't need to be on a calendar that work has access to (if the event is outside working hours).

For things on weekends I put those on my personal calendar. But that's clear-cut separation since no work event will ever be there.

The conflict is only for personal events during work hours. For those I put the blank placeholder in work calendar to block out the time.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by Wolfenstein98k on Friday June 25, 2021 @10:50AM (#27631497)
Can you block out the times on the work calendar to correspond with the actual booking in your personal calendar?
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by majewsky on Friday June 25, 2021 @04:16AM (#27628312)
So if you have a dentist appointment in the evening, after work, you don't put it on any calendar? I find that hard to believe.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by KozmoNau7 on Friday June 25, 2021 @04:43AM (#27628435)
I put it on my personal calendar, work has no need to know about it.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by mr_mitm on Friday June 25, 2021 @06:22AM (#27628980)
But you need to check both calendars when making the appointment. I can see how that's cumbersome, and in fact is one thing I deal with as well.

It would be nice if I could sync my work calendar with my personal calendar, but with all details redacted except for begin, end, and perhaps location.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by kroltan on Friday June 25, 2021 @09:12AM (#27630336)
Depending on your software, you can! I know Google Calendar allows you to restrict shared calendars to just time ranges, it'll show up as "not available".

Settings > Calendar Settings > Access Permissions > Make Available to Public > on the dropdown, pick "See only free/busy". Now you can share the link with your work calendar and it'll show up as indistinct blocks of time.

You can do it both ways, and you'll be able to check your availability for both work-related things and personal things in their own calendar, but contextualized.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by ghaff on Friday June 25, 2021 @09:46AM (#27630700)
Even my work calendar doesn't share the details of what I'm doing in a busy slot. Not particularly something anyone needs to know. If someone really needs to meet and my calendar looks blocked they can ping me to see if there's anything I can drop or move. It's not really up to them to make the decision (unless I work for them and it's urgent).
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by KozmoNau7 on Friday June 25, 2021 @11:12AM (#27631790)
Be default, my work calendar is strictly work and my personal calendar is strictly personal. I only duplicate personal events to my work calendar if they overlap with my work hours. Everything outside of work hours goes in my personal calendar only.

Aside from the odd appointment at the dentist or doctor's office, I don't have very many appointments that need to show up in both calendars. Work hours are work, everything else is personal and none of my workplace's business.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by jjav on Friday June 25, 2021 @01:10PM (#27633549)
> But you need to check both calendars when making the appointment.

If one covers strictly work hours and the personal one is strictly for outside work hours, then no need to check both. Just check the applicable one.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by gcatalfamo on Friday June 25, 2021 @05:55AM (#27628848)
You do need them on the same calendar if you need to account for travel distance and time before accepting that last minute meeting.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by KozmoNau7 on Friday June 25, 2021 @11:18AM (#27631870)
For those rare cases, it really isn't a problem to look at my work calendar on the work PC and my personal calendar on my phone and do a quick comparison.

In general, if I have a personal appointment, I'm not going to forget about it. Just the act of having added it to my calendar is enough to remember it, without having to look at the calendar. I only ever mix personal events into my work calendar if I there is an overlap with my working hours, everything else is none of my workplace's business, I'll polite decline any meeting that conflicts.

Besides, last-minute meetings are a sign of bad meeting culture.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by maxerickson on Thursday June 24, 2021 @08:10PM (#27625561)
It's a pain, but no way are my appointments any of the company's business, and it's not worth putting work stuff on my calendar.

Fortunately my work day ends when I leave work and I can just block off time if I am otherwise out of office for whatever reason.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by BoorishBears on Thursday June 24, 2021 @08:40PM (#27625789)
You can share a calendar as free/busy
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by maxerickson on Thursday June 24, 2021 @08:52PM (#27625870)
If you are not the administrator of the system in question, that isn't quite the right description.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by BoorishBears on Thursday June 24, 2021 @10:26PM (#27626521)
... not the administrator of your personal calendar?
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by killjoywashere on Friday June 25, 2021 @12:30AM (#27627159)
This is one place where you can, maybe, shed a tear for management. Imagine your CEO keeping a separate calendar. Don’t you want them inviting investors over for dinner?
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by jillesvangurp on Friday June 25, 2021 @04:50AM (#27628463)
With google calendar, you can add your private calendar (via a sharable url) and set it up such that it marks your private events as busy. Very useful.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by theshadowknows on Thursday June 24, 2021 @09:58PM (#27626344)
The only time this bit me so far is that once I had a weekly recurring for…two years. And one day, for some reason, my phone started RSVPing to it again. Except it was every instance of it that had passed…blew up my bosses inbox and made my phone useless for about an hour. It was the weirdest thing. Funny though.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by aksss on Friday June 25, 2021 @03:23AM (#27628030)
I believe that was an iOS bug, I remember hearing about that in a few instances where the built-in calendar client was connected to Office 365. In all cases it was solved by updating iOS to some bug-fixing point release.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by 3np on Thursday June 24, 2021 @08:52PM (#27625871)
This sounds strange, but I assume you must have extremely flexible work hours.

So just share the calendar and isolate the rest? No need to throw the baby out with the bath water, do what works for you

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by mechEpleb on Friday June 25, 2021 @07:03AM (#27629216)
Establishing the habit of regularly checking your schedule and thus being aware of any upcoming events would mostly solve this.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by LanceH on Thursday June 24, 2021 @04:11PM (#27623161)
I do this while freelancing/contracting as well. I have a macbook for client work only.

While I don't have a one for each potential client, I do use a different user for each client, and all data should remain in user space -- which is easy enough to accomplish since I need to maintain matching versions of databases anyway, there is no need to share a single data store.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by ska on Thursday June 24, 2021 @05:34PM (#27624087)
I've done this before with one VM per client. Makes archiving etc. simple also, and means that per-client setup stuff never tramples on each other.

Gives an answer for how you firewall sensitive data also, e.g. every document you gave me never existed anywhere except in this (potentially encrypted) VM. Easy to delete cleanly.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by mark_l_watson on Friday June 25, 2021 @09:19AM (#27630415)
That sounds like a clean way to organize multiple clients.

For some types of development, I find working on a remote server using SSH/Mosh/tmux works really well for me. I am retired now but I used to ask clients to rent a reasonably powerful VPS that we both had access to and just worked on that. I think this gave customers good control over their property (i.e., the work I did on their behalf).

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by dylan604 on Thursday June 24, 2021 @04:27PM (#27623341)
The user per client on the computer sounds like a nice idea. I haven't done that, but can easily see the appeal. Nice one
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by handrous on Thursday June 24, 2021 @05:34PM (#27624086)
It's a great system. The only real pain I've run into with it, on macOS anyway, is that you can't isolate iCloud accounts and still receive texts on your Mac. So unless you have a separate phone for each client, that's not so great. Also, the lack of profiles on iDevices means any client-specific apps (2fa stuff, for instance, or if you like to have Slack on your iDevice, or dev/testing apps, or whatever) ends up in a shared space on there.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by Buttons840 on Thursday June 24, 2021 @07:13PM (#27625139)
I created a new iCloud account with my work email.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by handrous on Friday June 25, 2021 @02:32AM (#27627754)
Right, the trouble's getting text messages and such through to your laptop (text message 2fa is so nice with a synced phone—auto fill!), if you have multiple clients. One work phone + personal phone (or tablets, or whatever) is fine. It's when you have three clients, and maybe they rotate out sometimes, that it gets to be a little annoying.

... unless you can add multiple iCloud accounts to one phone. I guess I've never tried, because I just assumed you couldn't. Though you'd still have the problem of things like dev builds and all that existing in the same space, and email accounts (on the phone) syncing to the same application without much separation, and all that.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by ThePowerOfFuet on Saturday June 26, 2021 @07:15AM (#27640940)
Why are you using SMS 2FA anyway?
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by sleepybrett on Friday June 25, 2021 @12:13PM (#27632651)
I once worked with a guy in the early 2000s that did 1 laptop per major client project (this was local workflow type app stuff, so windows desktop clients with maybe some kind of data backend) when he was complete he literally took the laptop and put a label on it and put it on a shelf. He'd been burned once to many times on backwards compatibility and library quirks with windows.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by touisteur on Thursday June 24, 2021 @04:56PM (#27623638)
Would almost be better with in addition a vm per customer or at least some kind of encrypted partition per user/customer. Not sure how easy it is under Linux.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by asymptosis on Thursday June 24, 2021 @05:51PM (#27624272)
> Not sure how easy it is under Linux.

Not sure how easy it is on other OSes. On Linux, it's easy.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by kyleee on Thursday June 24, 2021 @05:28PM (#27624017)
Just bite the bulllet and move to Qubes
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by petertodd on Thursday June 24, 2021 @07:48PM (#27625400)
Another advantage of doing this on separate VMs on Qubes is it makes it easy to comply with end-of-contract requirements to destroy all data. Just delete the VMs, and if needed, old backups.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by touisteur on Friday June 25, 2021 @02:59AM (#27627901)
Didn't know Qubes had such a feature (encrypted home partition/container). Will have a look, thanks.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by vladvasiliu on Friday June 25, 2021 @01:27AM (#27627426)
On the face of it, it looks fairly simple on Linux with the encrypted homes feature.

Don't have the need for that, so I've never tested it in practice, though.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by ekzy on Thursday June 24, 2021 @06:29PM (#27624709)
I tried to use this approach before, but if I remember correctly Homebrew didn’t like it. I like to manage my software with Homebrew, but multi user simply wasn’t working
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by Nextgrid on Thursday June 24, 2021 @07:49PM (#27625413)
You can install Homebrew in a non-default directory like somewhere under your home directory. It requires every package to be rebuilt during install, but it's possible. This means you should even be able to get away without even escalating your privileges to root.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by nine_k on Thursday June 24, 2021 @11:58PM (#27627006)
How do you handle brew? It makes all the /usr/local/bin stuff belong to the regular user which installed it. Other users had trouble working with brew-installed stuff, last time I tried a few years ago.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by vanpythonista on Friday June 25, 2021 @12:16AM (#27627102)
You can install brew in your home directory using the Untar Anywhere approach. I’m particular sceptical of how brew handles permissions, so I always install it to ~/homebrew. One thing to note, if you use this approach Homebrew will not use its precompiled binaries and build everything from source.

https://docs.brew.sh/Installation#untar-anywhere

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by Phurist on Friday June 25, 2021 @03:38AM (#27628125)
Use Nix instead.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by midasz on Friday June 25, 2021 @02:50AM (#27627857)
I do the same on Linux, I install software that I always use (DBeaver, Intellij, Spotify, 1Password, browsers, postman, docker stuff, etc) with my 'personal' user and when I switch clients I just create a new user and copy over my licenses.

Then I use firefox for everything client related (their outlook, jira, etc) and just login to my gmail on chrome or brave or something.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by jokethrowaway on Thursday June 24, 2021 @05:23PM (#27623967)
KDE has the concept of activities (think like, virtual desktop on steroids, with custom widgets and look) which I used for some time to split between clients' work.

It was a fun gimmicky but I can't say I missed it once I had to start using a Mac.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by LinAGKar on Friday June 25, 2021 @07:17AM (#27629312)
I've started using that when working from home, putting the work stuff on a separate activity.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by vagrantJin on Friday June 25, 2021 @02:16AM (#27627677)
> While I don't have a one for each potential client...

So 6 clients = 6 computers...pardon me Macbooks is your ideal setup?

I hope that was a joke.

I really hope that was a joke.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by yourabstraction on Thursday June 24, 2021 @05:51PM (#27624273)
I did this exact same thing at my last job, and I agree that it's remarkable how much it made both work and non work life better. Drawing hard lines can oftentimes make compliance much easier. Just the fact that I had decided to not have/do ANY personal stuff on my work computer made it very easy to focus and be extremely productive. I'm in the middle of my career, and it was by far my most productive time as a software engineer.

That being said, I didn't work myself to the bone. Instead of taking breaks with reddit, checking personal email, or spending time on social networks, I allowed myself long lunches, long walks, naps in the park or at the beach, and other forms of relaxation during the working day. This easy pace allowed me to perform some of the highest quality and most creative work of my career.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by vmception on Thursday June 24, 2021 @10:31PM (#27626558)
I’ve known so many people that wanted to get into crypto over the last decade and didn't even own a laptop of their own and were practically married to their employer as if that was normal (in their corporate world that was normal)

They had no way of managing private keys, privately or properly at all

They did it anyway, in one instance one person turned in their computer for routine IT maintenance and it was wiped! lol! Its pretty obvious that a person like this only had a passing interest in crypto and never made any backup

Things are so much easier now with hardware wallets that connect to iphone apps

But its shocking how people often have no separation

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by ghaff on Friday June 25, 2021 @09:56AM (#27630818)
I don't really.

But I use my own computers for most things. If I had to use a work-issued computer for work things, I'd be more careful about commingling. (I do have a work laptop, but I don't use it for very much.) I also generally keep personal and work email separate--to the degree one can really deliniate personal and work.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by kritiko on Thursday June 24, 2021 @04:34PM (#27623409)
Which computer are you posting this from?
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by yumraj on Thursday June 24, 2021 @04:41PM (#27623465)
Everyone knows that HN is work.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by p1necone on Thursday June 24, 2021 @07:50PM (#27625417)
Imo browsing hn every morning is a useful part of my job. I've found out so many useful things before anyone else because of it.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by geoduck14 on Thursday June 24, 2021 @10:55PM (#27626679)
HN in the morning. HN after lunch. HN during meetings that are dragging on. HN makes me SO productive.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by monkeyshelli on Friday June 25, 2021 @12:58AM (#27627290)
I still concider that better alternative than playing Candy Crush
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by mro_name on Friday June 25, 2021 @02:13AM (#27627663)
it's useful for you only unless your job wouldn't have found out otherwise anytime soon.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by Volundr on Thursday June 24, 2021 @05:46PM (#27624220)
Personal. Took a break, got some food, browsed HN, etc.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by datameta on Thursday June 24, 2021 @04:44PM (#27623502)
Potentially from the ~6x10cm computer
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by marton78 on Friday June 25, 2021 @05:10AM (#27628577)
... while sitting on porcelain with his trousers down.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by Buttons840 on Thursday June 24, 2021 @07:14PM (#27625143)
Posting from his personal phone while sitting in front of a company computer.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by requirementyogi on Friday June 25, 2021 @01:39AM (#27627483)
For me, using Facebook cookies in the same browser as work stuff blows my mind. I specifically write in the onboarding of my employees “Create a separate Chrome or FF profile to use your Facebook and other personal browsing”, and only half respect this rule, interns being specifically bad (experience workers do want work/home isolation). They receive quite a scolding when I catch them, but the damage is done: All websites have immediately registered who they are associated with, who their colleagues are, etc.

Stringent security rules and obnoxious firewalls exist because people don’t respect cool rules.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by Hnrobert42 on Friday June 25, 2021 @04:11AM (#27628286)
Firefox containers are good for this type of separation.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by heroHACK17 on Thursday June 24, 2021 @04:49PM (#27623563)
I had a similar experience after switching companies (to remote) last year. Work computer has no personal accounts/services. iPhone (and personal Mac) has no work accounts/services. No Slack, calendars, etc. I made it clear up-front that I am not available before 8AM and after 5PM M-F, but very available during work hours. Best decision I ever made!
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by teekert on Friday June 25, 2021 @03:53AM (#27628209)
I try to do it. One thing that helps is my Logitech MX keys, it switches to my Phone with the push of a button, so I don't feel the need so much to install Signal and Telegram on my work laptop. (I still do of course, it's just too easy... but I try because I understand the problem.) What is nice about my employer is that they ask you to fully wipe your drives (throw away the encryption key) before handing/sending in stuff. It's as much protection for them as it is for me.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by xwolfi on Friday June 25, 2021 @12:31AM (#27627165)
What you realize when you do that is how people actually adapt. I dont mind both, I have phases when Ill be fully plugged and answer work email at 1am, which starts to create a super fun action-oriented life where it's a denser and denser tunnel of things to do, fix, answer.

But then when you stop (I got a Huawei phone which cant install most of the corporate things for national security reasons), then wow. When I leave I leave, I do dilletante stuff, eat out with my wife and nobody cares. They just call someome else. I get probably less cookie points at annual reviews but a few rushes at the end of the year can usually compensate.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by 1vuio0pswjnm7 on Thursday June 24, 2021 @11:38PM (#27626902)
"I don't have e-mail or slack on my phone."

Thought maybe I was the only one. Text messaging is enough. Not even using any trendy apps, just a few basic things from F-Droid.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by majewsky on Friday June 25, 2021 @04:35AM (#27628397)
That wasn't OP's point. They meant that they don't have work e-mail or work slack on their private phone, to provide separation between work and private time.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by jcun4128 on Thursday June 24, 2021 @06:05PM (#27624454)
For me to have work Teams on my phone, have to install this app that can remotely wipe my phone. Understandable but still.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by zdragnar on Thursday June 24, 2021 @06:24PM (#27624642)
When I have worked for similar companies, I simply didn't install any of their software on my phone. If they wanted the ability to wipe it, they would have to give me a phone for it. Sure enough, it never turned out to be that important to anyone.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by rodgerd on Thursday June 24, 2021 @09:12PM (#27626032)
Yeah, I wouldn't trust company MDM on a personal device at all. Best case is that someone with an itchy trigger finger wipes your phone. Worst case you've got someone deciding to poke around your personal device for shits and giggles.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by zdragnar on Thursday June 24, 2021 @09:22PM (#27626091)
Ironically, a week before I left one of these companies, they remotely wiped my work laptop. Someone got the memo wrong, and I spent the better part of my remaining time with them trying to get access to all the various systems so I could complete one bug ticket. I hate to imagine what would have happened if I had given them access to my personal phone.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by Buttons840 on Thursday June 24, 2021 @07:20PM (#27625183)
Is it an Android? How does that work? Is it a special permission or something?

I've allowed Slack on my personal phone. It has no permissions according to the Android OS (beyond permission to use the network, which, of course, can't be denied least Google lose ad revenue). I don't think it can wipe my phone. I hope it can't wipe my phone?

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by SilverRed on Thursday June 24, 2021 @09:58PM (#27626352)
MDM is kind of a super admin feature on Android and iOS which allows for all kinds of things normal apps can never access. It's used by companies to manage company owned devices so they can do things like reset the password and remove the apple id lock when an employee leaves.

It's not that slack can wipe your phone, but that (it sounds like) slack can detect the presence of the company MDM setup which can wipe your phone and lock you out of the app if it is not detected.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by jcun4128 on Thursday June 24, 2021 @07:42PM (#27625353)
I didn't install it. After 5/6 I'm done with work. I don't use work devices for personal use/vice versa.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by talkingquickly on Friday June 25, 2021 @04:50AM (#27628464)
Really like this approach but 7KG cabin baggage limits on lots of international flights are what makes it really hard for me. I sometimes struggle to get single laptop + iPad + charger + power bank within the limit, let alone two sets.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by alok-g on Friday June 25, 2021 @05:49AM (#27628828)
I always carry two laptops (personal + work) on all trips, domestic or international. Other than added inconvenience of having to take out and put back stuff during security checks, it has always worked out. Even when I end up exceeding the 7 kg limit, I've never been stopped.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by markus_zhang on Thursday June 24, 2021 @09:57PM (#27626334)
I wish I could do this. Now the two are perfectly mixed on my work laptop.