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Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by ip26 on Thursday June 24, 2021 @08:04PM (#27625515)
Calendar is what kills this approach for me. I am not two different people with two different calendars, I am one person with one calendar. Scheduling & making all my appointments is really troublesome with two separate calendars.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by kojeovo on Thursday June 24, 2021 @09:04PM (#27625948)
I provide access to my work one from my personal so I can view it on my personal when scheduling events and hide it otherwise. Works pretty well imo.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by avel on Thursday June 24, 2021 @09:09PM (#27626000)
Yep, that's the way to go. I do the same. Easy to do with Google Calendar.

In your work calendar: Settings -> Settings for My Calendars -> Access Permissions -> Get shareable link.

In your personal calendar: Other Calendars -> Subscribe to Calendar

With this, I've managed to remove all other traces of work from my personal phone.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by dvk13 on Thursday June 24, 2021 @09:28PM (#27626150)
TIL. Thanks!!
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by dataflow on Thursday June 24, 2021 @09:55PM (#27626325)
And it takes like 12+ hours to update....
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by nine_k on Thursday June 24, 2021 @11:52PM (#27626977)
To me it works instantly between Google calendars, and with a few minutes of delay between Google and Office365 calendars.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by killjoywashere on Friday June 25, 2021 @12:27AM (#27627150)
And if you are in a high security organization (DOD, banks) … good luck.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by Nitramp on Friday June 25, 2021 @01:22AM (#27627393)
> High Security organization (banks)

Hahahahahahaha. Good one.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by 411111111111111 on Friday June 25, 2021 @02:36AM (#27627774)
They usually have extreme security guidelines for employees. All external laptop ports disabled, so no way to plug in periphery nor connecting a tv for a presentation.

No internet access at on laptops or only with a sim card which only allows connections to the VPN bastion host etc. Direct Internet on premise is a no-go as well, obviously. So no checking stack overflow if you've got any issues

They still leave infrastructure with default passwords exposed to the internet and implement questionable password policies for their customers... But they do everything they can in order to sabotage their employees!

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by Clewza313 on Friday June 25, 2021 @02:32AM (#27627750)
Perhaps "high security process organization" is a better term.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by mcv on Friday June 25, 2021 @02:52AM (#27627865)
That's a good description. The invest a lot in highly secure technology and processes, and then ignore them out of convenience.

I work at a department that's all about data quality and integrity, and we have super bureaucratic processes to regulate access to data, but you don't want to know how much data lives in Excel files; an issue I'm constantly trying to address.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by dataflow on Friday June 25, 2021 @12:11AM (#27627065)
> with a few minutes of delay between Google and Office365 calendars

How in the world do you do that? Subscribe to Calendar isn't even possible with Office 365, right? You have to use From URL, to which you give the .ics URL, which Google Calendar normally pulls a couple times a day. Is there a different mechanism you use?

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by armatav on Thursday June 24, 2021 @10:03PM (#27626387)
Works until IT resets the passwords once a month and you have to renew access on your device, missing a meeting.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by mcny on Thursday June 24, 2021 @10:20PM (#27626496)
We should discourage this stupidity of expiring passwords wherever we can.

Maybe make it a point to put your passwords on a sticky note stuck on the monitor prominently on display if $work requires you to change passwords that frequently?

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by xkcd-sucks on Thursday June 24, 2021 @10:55PM (#27626677)
Nobody actually cares about the security of expiring passwords, it's just a line item on a checklist of official processes. And the people auditing it don't visit in person
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by mjevans on Friday June 25, 2021 @02:15AM (#27627671)
Your organization SHOULD follow NIST SP 800-63B Section 5.1.1.2

https://pages.nist.gov/800-63-FAQ/#q-b05

Q-B05: Is password expiration no longer recommended?

A-B05: SP 800-63B Section 5.1.1.2 paragraph 9 states:

“Verifiers SHOULD NOT require memorized secrets to be changed arbitrarily (e.g., periodically). However, verifiers SHALL force a change if there is evidence of compromise of the authenticator.”

Users tend to choose weaker memorized secrets when they know that they will have to change them in the near future. When those changes do occur, they often select a secret that is similar to their old memorized secret by applying a set of common transformations such as increasing a number in the password. This practice provides a false sense of security if any of the previous secrets has been compromised since attackers can apply these same common transformations. But if there is evidence that the memorized secret has been compromised, such as by a breach of the verifier’s hashed password database or observed fraudulent activity, subscribers should be required to change their memorized secrets. However, this event-based change should occur rarely, so that they are less motivated to choose a weak secret with the knowledge that it will only be used for a limited period of time.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by bostik on Friday June 25, 2021 @02:16AM (#27627678)
Both NIST and NCSC now actively discourage password expiration. And it took them only what, 30 years, to catch up with real-world best practices?

That said, there is a place for 30-day rotation. That's when the so-called "password" is actually a shared secret for extremely high-value systems. Payment gateways, for example.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by mcny on Friday June 25, 2021 @07:59AM (#27629639)
> That said, there is a place for 30-day rotation. That's when the so-called "password" is actually a shared secret for extremely high-value systems. Payment gateways, for example.

Should we even attempt to let the user define such shared secrets? If 30-day rotation is good, surely 30 second rotation is better? Perhaps we can replace such "passwords" with some kind of one time PIN (OTP) or some generated pass phrase only valid for n minutes?

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by bostik on Friday June 25, 2021 @11:42AM (#27632184)
Well, in this shared-secret case we're talking about "symmetric signing keys" (really: MAC keys). Those types of keys are not defined by the users, they are issued by the party you're connecting to and delivered over a known, reasonably secure out-of-band mechanism.

I am all for having transient secrets, but without an extremely well integrated and robust vault they would be unmanageable. Plus asymmetric handshakes are computationally really expensive, so you don't do them all the time.[ß] The 30-day rotation period for these types of secrets is merely a reasonable compromise between "assume all shared secrets will be compromised" and the human factor.

ß: a friend set up a dedicated payment gateway device for a UK challenger bank. For just one card issuer. That thing can supposedly run at 10Gb line rate, so doing asymmetric crypto frequently would murder performance and latency.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by vladvasiliu on Friday June 25, 2021 @01:24AM (#27627404)
This.

I've been confronted with exactly this a short while ago, and even produced Microsoft's official stance on this (against). But in the end, their argument really boiled down to "but my checklist says so".

Microsoft's [0] first entry of "Common approaches and their negative impacts". With a reference to the FTC website. [1]

[0] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/admin/misc/pa...

[1] https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/techftc/2016/03/time-r...

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by Tainnor on Friday June 25, 2021 @06:19AM (#27628967)
This is so infuriating. NIST has been advising against it for years by now and even Microsoft switched the official stance last year or so, but it still keeps being done out of inertia. It's also still in the AWS best practices (I unsuccessfully tried to argue against introducing it for our accounts).

Though, to be honest, at this point I believe that humanity should just abandon passwords for all but the most unimportant of things (e.g. your account on some hobbyist forum), at this point they just have too many downsides and most people seem to be unable to handle them properly.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by InvertedRhodium on Friday June 25, 2021 @01:20AM (#27627386)
Writing your password down in an insecure location will get you written up at most jobs, straight out fired at others.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by gcatalfamo on Friday June 25, 2021 @05:56AM (#27628853)
You do need them on the work calendar if you need to account for travel distance and time to the dentist before accepting that last minute meeting.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by jjav on Friday June 25, 2021 @02:48AM (#27627840)
> Calendar is what kills this approach for me.

If I have a personal thing during work hours I just block it off on the work calendar. No details, just "Not available".

Anything outside work hours doesn't need to be on a calendar.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by fragmede on Friday June 25, 2021 @05:16AM (#27628610)
> Anything outside work hours doesn't need to be on a calendar.

I'm happy that works for you, but for me or anyone else who can be absent minded sometimes, that does. not. work. I need a calendar to remember promises I've made to people about when and where I'll be. Tuesday I'm meeting a friend to catch up in person, Thursday I've got a birthday dinner to go to, there's a show on Friday that I have tickets to. Stack multiple events in a single night if you have a busy social life. That's not a ton of information to remember but human memory is imperfect, and that sort of information is in one ear and out the other for me.

Prior to pocket computers, I'd have a paper datebook to carry around (and lose), but thanks to modern technology, it's stored in the cloud and accessible for me at https://calendar.google.com.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by jjav on Friday June 25, 2021 @01:07PM (#27633503)
> Anything outside work hours doesn't need to be on a calendar.

Can't edit original, but what I meant there is that it doesn't need to be on a calendar that work has access to (if the event is outside working hours).

For things on weekends I put those on my personal calendar. But that's clear-cut separation since no work event will ever be there.

The conflict is only for personal events during work hours. For those I put the blank placeholder in work calendar to block out the time.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by Wolfenstein98k on Friday June 25, 2021 @10:50AM (#27631497)
Can you block out the times on the work calendar to correspond with the actual booking in your personal calendar?
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by majewsky on Friday June 25, 2021 @04:16AM (#27628312)
So if you have a dentist appointment in the evening, after work, you don't put it on any calendar? I find that hard to believe.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by KozmoNau7 on Friday June 25, 2021 @04:43AM (#27628435)
I put it on my personal calendar, work has no need to know about it.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by mr_mitm on Friday June 25, 2021 @06:22AM (#27628980)
But you need to check both calendars when making the appointment. I can see how that's cumbersome, and in fact is one thing I deal with as well.

It would be nice if I could sync my work calendar with my personal calendar, but with all details redacted except for begin, end, and perhaps location.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by kroltan on Friday June 25, 2021 @09:12AM (#27630336)
Depending on your software, you can! I know Google Calendar allows you to restrict shared calendars to just time ranges, it'll show up as "not available".

Settings > Calendar Settings > Access Permissions > Make Available to Public > on the dropdown, pick "See only free/busy". Now you can share the link with your work calendar and it'll show up as indistinct blocks of time.

You can do it both ways, and you'll be able to check your availability for both work-related things and personal things in their own calendar, but contextualized.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by ghaff on Friday June 25, 2021 @09:46AM (#27630700)
Even my work calendar doesn't share the details of what I'm doing in a busy slot. Not particularly something anyone needs to know. If someone really needs to meet and my calendar looks blocked they can ping me to see if there's anything I can drop or move. It's not really up to them to make the decision (unless I work for them and it's urgent).
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by KozmoNau7 on Friday June 25, 2021 @11:12AM (#27631790)
Be default, my work calendar is strictly work and my personal calendar is strictly personal. I only duplicate personal events to my work calendar if they overlap with my work hours. Everything outside of work hours goes in my personal calendar only.

Aside from the odd appointment at the dentist or doctor's office, I don't have very many appointments that need to show up in both calendars. Work hours are work, everything else is personal and none of my workplace's business.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by jjav on Friday June 25, 2021 @01:10PM (#27633549)
> But you need to check both calendars when making the appointment.

If one covers strictly work hours and the personal one is strictly for outside work hours, then no need to check both. Just check the applicable one.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by gcatalfamo on Friday June 25, 2021 @05:55AM (#27628848)
You do need them on the same calendar if you need to account for travel distance and time before accepting that last minute meeting.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by KozmoNau7 on Friday June 25, 2021 @11:18AM (#27631870)
For those rare cases, it really isn't a problem to look at my work calendar on the work PC and my personal calendar on my phone and do a quick comparison.

In general, if I have a personal appointment, I'm not going to forget about it. Just the act of having added it to my calendar is enough to remember it, without having to look at the calendar. I only ever mix personal events into my work calendar if I there is an overlap with my working hours, everything else is none of my workplace's business, I'll polite decline any meeting that conflicts.

Besides, last-minute meetings are a sign of bad meeting culture.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by maxerickson on Thursday June 24, 2021 @08:10PM (#27625561)
It's a pain, but no way are my appointments any of the company's business, and it's not worth putting work stuff on my calendar.

Fortunately my work day ends when I leave work and I can just block off time if I am otherwise out of office for whatever reason.

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by BoorishBears on Thursday June 24, 2021 @08:40PM (#27625789)
You can share a calendar as free/busy
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by maxerickson on Thursday June 24, 2021 @08:52PM (#27625870)
If you are not the administrator of the system in question, that isn't quite the right description.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by BoorishBears on Thursday June 24, 2021 @10:26PM (#27626521)
... not the administrator of your personal calendar?
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by killjoywashere on Friday June 25, 2021 @12:30AM (#27627159)
This is one place where you can, maybe, shed a tear for management. Imagine your CEO keeping a separate calendar. Don’t you want them inviting investors over for dinner?
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by jillesvangurp on Friday June 25, 2021 @04:50AM (#27628463)
With google calendar, you can add your private calendar (via a sharable url) and set it up such that it marks your private events as busy. Very useful.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by theshadowknows on Thursday June 24, 2021 @09:58PM (#27626344)
The only time this bit me so far is that once I had a weekly recurring for…two years. And one day, for some reason, my phone started RSVPing to it again. Except it was every instance of it that had passed…blew up my bosses inbox and made my phone useless for about an hour. It was the weirdest thing. Funny though.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by aksss on Friday June 25, 2021 @03:23AM (#27628030)
I believe that was an iOS bug, I remember hearing about that in a few instances where the built-in calendar client was connected to Office 365. In all cases it was solved by updating iOS to some bug-fixing point release.
Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by 3np on Thursday June 24, 2021 @08:52PM (#27625871)
This sounds strange, but I assume you must have extremely flexible work hours.

So just share the calendar and isolate the rest? No need to throw the baby out with the bath water, do what works for you

Re:Stop using your work laptop or phone for personal stuff, ... by mechEpleb on Friday June 25, 2021 @07:03AM (#27629216)
Establishing the habit of regularly checking your schedule and thus being aware of any upcoming events would mostly solve this.