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Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by untog on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @01:35PM (#22740051)
Sigh.

I mean, congratulations to the founders of Dark Sky. It’s a wonderful app and they deserve all the money they’ll get from this and they deserve a lot of credit for not selling user data when almost every other weather app does. But shutting down the API and Android apps feels like an egregious move by Apple.

And I hope we actually see a good improvement to the Apple weather app as a result of this. I remember a few years ago Apple bought a fantastic public transit app (Embark?), shut it down and I still don’t think their Maps app comes close to the original transit app.

Vaguely topical thought: I wonder if we’re going to see a lot more of this. A large economic downturn means a lot of small, independent companies will struggle to survive. Being swallowed by a megacorp might be one of the few ways to keep something alive.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by notthemessiah on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @02:01PM (#22740423)
> I remember a few years ago Apple bought a fantastic public transit app (Embark?), shut it down and I still don’t think their Maps app comes close to the original transit app.

When Edwin Howard Armstrong invented FM radio, he was working for RCA, which had everything invested in AM radio, an incompatible technology. RCA chose not to invest, and used their political clout to lobby the FCC to cripple FM radio, and their lawyers to drive Armstrong into debt in a protracted legal battle. This drove Armstrong to suicide by defenestration. For companies like Apple, these acquisitions are more about killing competition than they are about improving their own services or user interfaces.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Howard_Armstrong http://www.free-culture.cc/

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by realityking on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @02:44PM (#22740972)
I don't know. How's Dark Sky competing with Apple? I don't think they derive much, if any, revenue from the Weather app. More likely they're paying for the data.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by sbahr001 on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @07:33PM (#22743990)
It might have to do with AccuWeather trying to make weather data harder to access, especially NOAA data. Dark Sky was one of the best API's for weather data too, and now Apple does not have to follow anyone else's rules. Tim Cook's big push for environmental responsibility can also be a reason for the acquisition as well. Having access to this type of data allows them to open the door to more environmental productions/applications.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by mattmcknight on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @07:54PM (#22744139)
Apparently DarkSky does use the NOAA data, whereas Apple was pulling data from The Weather Company, now part of IBM.

"IBM purchased the Weather Co. in 2016 and sells weather data to, among others, Apple, for its weather app. The purchase could signal that Apple will develop its own weather model rather than continue to use IBM-derived data, or it may indicate that Apple, too, liked the design of the app." https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2020/03/31/apple-buys...

per https://twitter.com/ajblum/status/1245045062112813059

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by cosmie on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @01:00AM (#22745860)
> whereas Apple was pulling data from The Weather Company, now part of IBM.

It's turtles all the way down[1]. The Weather Company also leverages NOAA data and is listed as such as a weather service provider on NOAA's site[2]. Although they ostensibly augment it with other sources and apply their own forecasting models to the data, they're still basically repackaging NOAA data in one form or another.

[1] https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down

[2] https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/success/weather-service-providers

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by wakeless on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @04:22AM (#22746750)
There is a great episode of 99 percent invisible about this.

https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-weather-machine/

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by dingaling on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @01:19AM (#22745934)
> The Weather Company also leverages NOAA data

... in the USA. But one of its great advantages is the data it receives from tens of thousands of amateur weather reporting stations globally. The Wunderground forecast for our locality is hyper-localised and very accurate for that reason, particularly compared to the national Met Office forecast which applies to an airport 35 miles away, beside a lake and on the other side of mountains.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by lstamour on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @03:50AM (#22746619)
I had no idea Weather Channel had bought Weather Underground in 2012. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Underground_(weather...

I remember fondly using their Wunder Radio app in the early iPhone years.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by coldcode on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @07:20AM (#22747576)
I was an early supporter (and payer) for Wunderground, but now they have turned into another IBM money grab and I refuse to have anything to do with them now.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by Moru on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @07:58AM (#22747777)
I realy love the norwegian weather service, yr.no (Has english language selection on top). It works worldwide and has an open API [1]. Not sure where they get the data though but short term it's very good here in Sweden. Long term tends to be a bit exagerated though but improves the closer it gets.

[1] https://hjelp.yr.no/hc/en-us/categories/200450271-About-Yr-t...

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by fooey on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @03:02PM (#22741175)
Maybe this is the start of the Epic Games business model.

Buy things and make them exclusive just so no one else can have them.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by yepthatsreality on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:19PM (#22742055)
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by madeofpalk on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:39PM (#22742288)
I mean in Epic's case, its really more like movie/tv/book deals, except with much more favourable terms to the creators.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by timzentu on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @07:27PM (#22743926)
You forgot to add with more restrictions, decreased customer satisfaction, upsetting early supporters, and an incomplete storefront that barely has enough online features to state it was built in the last 2 decades.

That is in the case of Epic not the OP.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by close04 on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:43PM (#22742341)
Buying things to bury just to make sure the competition doesn't get them is by no means a new business model or invented by Epic Games. It's been a solid go to for most big companies since forever. It's nothing new for Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by rickyc091 on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @07:30PM (#22743950)
So I exclusively use Dark Sky on my iPhone and watch. They could also be looking at the data and noticing that most people use Dark Sky as opposed to the default weather app.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by outworlder on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @08:36PM (#22744429)
I hope that they also realize WHY people are using Dark Sky and keep that.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by threeseed on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @05:21PM (#22742739)
> For companies like Apple, these acquisitions are more about killing competition

This is just nonsense.

Every acquisition they've ever done can directly be seen in future projects:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitio...

The products you don't see give a hint into their roadmap.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by Traster on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:10PM (#22743252)
Is this acquisition going to give more people access to a great weather app or less people access to a great weather app?

It's going to be the same people, working on the same product, but now, it's going to unavailable via their cheif competitor. Tell me how on earth you can consider that not killing competition.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by Zelphyr on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:23PM (#22743368)
When I first read "killing their competition" I thought it meant killing competition in the form of weather apps. That didn't make any sense to me since Apple makes no money off the Weather app. Only after re-reading that sentence a few times did I realize the OP meant killing Android.

That said, I don't believe that to be the issue either. Death by a thousand cuts, maybe, but I seriously doubt closing off one app from the Android ecosystem is going to do any damage whatsoever. I think this is more about the acquisition of talent and nothing more.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by m-p-3 on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @09:07AM (#22748128)
> That didn't make any sense to me since Apple makes no money off the Weather app

But now it won't have to pay for API access anymore, since they'll own the whole backend.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by latexr on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:32PM (#22743457)
> Is this acquisition going to give more people access to a great weather app or less people access to a great weather app?

Perhaps more. It’s a matter of comparing all users of Dark Sky, including via the API and on Android, against the user base of iOS.

And perhaps they’ll be able to use the technology in other countries, bringing in more users than Dark Sky ever could.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by michaelmrose on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @01:26AM (#22745972)
Is it realy important that a greater number of people may someday use it in the medium term when in the short term there are less actual users and in the long term the potential is again less.

>And perhaps they’ll be able to use the technology in other countries, bringing in more users than Dark Sky ever could.

45% of ios users are well off Americans. Outside of the US 90% of phones are Android who won't be able to use it anymore.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by saghm on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @11:45PM (#22745428)
> Perhaps more. It’s a matter of comparing all users of Dark Sky, including via the API and on Android, against the user base of iOS.

Not disagreeing with the following paragraph, but GP specifically asked about "access", and all of these iOS users already had access to Dark Sky; this strictly decreases access, even if more people end up using it.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by briandear on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @10:09PM (#22744931)
What’s stopping someone from now making a truly great Android weather app? If anything it allows for more competition.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by the_other on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @04:42AM (#22746839)
My experience with Shazam is that it has got less good at identifying music since Apple bought it. My guess is that it now ONLY identifies music from the Apple Music catalog.

This suggests that Apple may only buy to augment their product line; whilst still making the core experience worse for everyone overall.

I’ll admit I’ve not done a proper study of post-acquisition Shazam. I’m going on casual observation here.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by nitrogen on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @07:20PM (#22743853)
Where can I buy a Primesense-based USB RGBZ camera these days?
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by wlesieutre on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @08:04PM (#22744212)
Are you suggesting that Apple bought Primesense because they wanted to kill the competition of USB RGBZ cameras?
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by nitrogen on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @12:13AM (#22745595)
RGBZ in general. They killed a market just to have a minor feature in their phones. Also keep in mind that Primesense's biggest precious licensee was an Apple competitor.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by wlesieutre on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @09:27AM (#22748263)
They’re adding rear facing depth sensor for use with ARKit and are known to have an AR headset in development. I think the new sensor works differently from Primesense (which used a grid projector and a camera instead of LiDAR?) but clearly Apple is doing more with this. I'd be shocked if they didn't have years worth of prototype phones with Primesense systems on the back.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by nitrogen on Thursday April 02, 2020 @11:35AM (#22760147)
Unfortunately this is still a very narrow vision of what is possible with RGBZ or just Z. You won't want to strap an iPad to a robot, or mount a bunch of iPads on your ceiling, or below your TV connected to your game console.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by KiDD on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @10:52PM (#22745136)
FaceID uses this technology?
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by wlesieutre on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @11:48PM (#22745448)
Presumably the rear-facing LiDAR sensor in the new iPads as well, and I suspect those are basically a developer preview for the iPhone 12 Pro hardware so that improved ARKit apps can be ready for the fall
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by emmelaich on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:10PM (#22743248)
He had a lifelong neurological condition. He didn't work for RCA. It wasn't just RCA that tried to restrict him. RCA did offer him a million dollars that he refused. He did hit his wife with a poker and she left him.

It's a terrible story and he was treated badly, but you're making it more dramatic than it was.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by clairity on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @03:14PM (#22741308)
> "...suicide by defenestration..."

as an aside, my first thought at this phrase was that "he died by removing all the windows?" it took a second to process that properly.

but to the point, that's the kind of anti-competition we need to root out quickly. compete on merits, not on demerits.

i'm sad about the embark app, but i'm hoping that the dark sky integration means no more sending data (however "anonymized") to the shady data broker that is the weather channel.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by Someone on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @03:37PM (#22741578)
For those who wonder: it’s not a neologism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenestrations_of_Prague:

The Defenestrations of Prague (Czech: Pražská defenestrace, German: Prager Fenstersturz, Latin: Defenestratio Pragensis) were three incidents in the history of Bohemia in which multiple people were defenestrated (thrown out of a window). The origin of the word "defenestrate" ("out of the window") is believed to come from the episodes in Prague in 1618 when the disgruntled Protestant estates threw two royal governors out of the castle window and wrote an extensive Apologia to this act.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by thinkloop on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:08PM (#22741914)
> This drove Armstrong to suicide by defenestration

For those who are extra slow like me: he killed himself by jumping out of a window.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by zyngaro on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:30PM (#22743447)
Lol in French defenestration is literally death by jumping out of a window.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by yyx on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @11:24PM (#22745330)
In English too
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by clairity on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:00PM (#22741841)
yes, mine was more a temporary confusion between the common notion of the "de-" prefix in english (~"remove") vs. latin (~"out of").
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by rhizome on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @08:26PM (#22744366)
Funnily enough, they're two different Latin word elements. Simplified, there's the "down" de-, as in "destroy," and the "undo" de-, like "defrost." The "undo" de- is also the "not" de- and the "away" de-, related to dis- ("disallow", "discard").
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by PaulHoule on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:28PM (#22742180)
Who needs the weather channel when we have the national weather service publishing forecasts on a 1km x 1km grid?

Is the value of the weather channel that investors expect the national weather service to be abolished?

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by ceejayoz on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @05:22PM (#22742748)
> Is the value of the weather channel that investors expect the national weather service to be abolished?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/11/25/weather-i...

"In 2017, Trump nominated Barry Myers, the former CEO of AccuWeather, a company that has advocated for the privatization of large parts of the National Weather Service, to lead NOAA. However, his nomination stalled, in part because of conflict-of-interest concerns since his family still owns the private forecasting company."

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by Spooky23 on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:35PM (#22743484)
Myers doesn’t want to abolish the weather service, he wants to limit who gets the data they collect.

It certainly wouldn’t be profitable for Accuweather to have to do things like gather weather data and have supercomputers to analyze.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by yborg on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @05:56PM (#22743102)
The value of these APIs is that they aggregate data worldwide. I don't want to write against the API of every national weather service in the world.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by clairity on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:46PM (#22742372)
no, to clarify, apple has been using the weather channel (exclusively, i believe) for weather info across its ecosystem. you can't get integrated weather info on apple devices (iphone, watch, etc.) without it (you can download other apps but they wouldn't integrate with the OS).

i'd be super happy if they switched to the national weather service, but absent that, dark sky is more privacy preserving than the weather channel (who reportedly sell location data, for example).

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by rapind on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @03:51PM (#22741726)
This is a systematic problem with crony capitalism. It will always be with us so long as lobbying and corporate campaign donations are a thing.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by kevin_thibedeau on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:02PM (#22741866)
Fingers crossed that all the shenanigans preventing cheap ventilators coming to market will force some regulatory action.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by Godel_unicode on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @05:20PM (#22742725)
By shenanigans, do you perhaps mean the rigorous testing regime applied to a device which will literally be putting the air in your lungs while you're unconscious??

I for one am super happy that people with this attitude have been totally unable to penetrate the medical devices field!

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by kevin_thibedeau on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @10:26PM (#22744995)
You might want to read about the sort of malfeasance that has put us in this situation:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/business/coronavirus-us-v...

TLDR: A $3000 ventilator was “on schedule to file for market approval in September 2013” and then Covidien bought out the competition to prevent it coming to fruition.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by Godel_unicode on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @02:20AM (#22746218)
Covidien at the time already sold a $5000 portable ventilator, which was never rejected by the FDA. The prospective Newport ventilator was rejected for neonatal use, which was a requirement of their BARDA contract.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by simonh on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:15PM (#22743298)
A badly made ventilator can kill you a lot faster than the virus.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by neurobashing on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @05:57PM (#22743109)
> killing competition

Apple believes it should make/provide the whole “widget”. If they think every phone should ship with a really good weather app, they’ll do one. If one comes on the market that they think is better, they’ll buy it and make it the new default.

I mean they’re not in the weather app business. They aren’t competing against Dark Sky. What they’re competing against is Android, and if their phone comes with a stellar weather app out of the box, that is good for Apple. Others can continue to make weather apps.

iOS comes with a calculator. People still buy PC Calc and Calcbot despite the built-in being pretty useful.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by mattkrause on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:51PM (#22743632)
Oddly, the iPad does not come with a calculator.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by DaiPlusPlus on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @07:33PM (#22743982)
Unless you count Numbers.

I heard it was because Apple’s C-levels weren’t happy with any of the concepts for a calculator UX that fills the screen of an iPad - and they’re right, even the best iPad calculator there is (PCalc) feels weird to use just to do some quick sums because it fills up my 13-inch iPad Pro’s screen.

I remember some early fan-made concepts for the iPad had it running iPhone apps in floating windows - I think if Apple baked that functionality into the iPad OS from the beginning it would have meant a whole slew of small utility apps like the calculator, clocks and alarms, compass, etc wouldn’t need to be remade - but I’m sure they killed that idea because it wouldn’t motivate developers into making first-class iPad apps - and by “punishing” users with the terrible full-screen iPhone app mode it incentivises developers to put effort into making good native iPad apps - while at the same time making small utility apps an impossibility for iPad OS (though this doesn’t seem to have convinced Instagram...)

To be fair, they could exist now as a Today Screen widget, but then you can’t use it while you have another app open. It’s only with iOS 12+ multitasking support for slide-over and side-bar apps that a calculator app could now work - but it would still need to support full-screen mode - but we’re so close now! And given that, I wouldn’t be surprised if Apple did allow iPad apps to run only in sidebar or floating mode - but only if an app really won’t work as a full-screen app - and when/if they do, they’ll definitely launch their own calculator app.

Y’know the Apple Watch didn’t get a first-party calculator until 2019?

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by lostgame on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:45PM (#22743579)
I really wish we could make custom Apple Watch faces, for instance. At least open up the API for it for developers - for example - Apple does not provide an Apple Watch face with both an analog and digital representation, and I can’t make it, beyond an app, which I’d have to constantly reopen...just us me do the things, Apple!
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by 3JPLW on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @03:31PM (#22741503)
How is this anecdote at all analogous? I'm not seeing it.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by capableweb on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @03:37PM (#22741584)
It's in general putting Apple to like with the company and finishes with the statement:

> For companies like Apple, these acquisitions are more about killing competition than they are about improving their own services or user interfaces

You definitely see this with not just Apple but any big tech company. Either they acquire a company for their tech, for their people who work there (talent), for their data or finally, just to be able to kill their company/product.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by tim58 on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:11PM (#22741961)
> Either they acquire a company for their tech, for their people who work there (talent), for their data or finally, just to be able to kill their company/product.

To make the list more complete I've seen large tech companies acquire another tech company for their users and/or their brand. Think about Microsoft buying Github or Skype.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by Godel_unicode on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @05:17PM (#22742685)
It certainly doesn't seem like either of those examples further your point. Both GitHub and Skype still exist as essentially the same core product they were at the time of acquisition, plus lots of new features which are clearly the results of substantial investment in the product by Microsoft.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by Spooky23 on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:40PM (#22743521)
GitHub was a complimentary product that fits into Microsoft’s strategy.

Skype was almost certainly some sort of scheme to kill Skype and bring lawful intercept to the platform. Skype at one point owned consumer voip globally.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by brianzelip on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @10:29PM (#22745010)
For more on the origins of FM and other related tech, see _The Network: The Battle for the Airwaves and the Birth of the Communications Age_, Woolley and Hoye, 2016, https://www.worldcat.org/title/network-the-battle-for-the-ai...
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by Razengan on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @12:18AM (#22745630)
Oh boy.

A lot of stuff known as quintessentially Apple today was bought by them; Siri, Logic, Final Cut, as well as tech like Face ID and soon AR.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by JeremyNT on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @05:06PM (#22742587)
Sigh is right. I used and paid for dark sky on Android, and now it's dead.

This is one way Apple tries to lock people in, and it's really frustrating. This isn't an efficient market situation, this is a monopolist protecting their walled garden kingdom by slurping up the cross platform innovators. I'm terribly disappointed in the Dark Sky authors for doing this to long time loyal customers, no matter what their paychecks look like.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by cpv on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @03:08AM (#22746424)
Have you found good alternatives? I'm looking at meteoblue at the moment.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by valuearb on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @01:09PM (#22751010)
Why should Apple subsidize Android development?
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by simonh on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:17PM (#22743314)
How is iOS in any way, shape or form a monopoly?
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by root_axis on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @11:02PM (#22745195)
Monopolies aren't the issue, anti-competive behavior is. Buying out a company and then shutting out your competitor's customers is pretty anti-competetive and also clearly bad for consumers.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by vertis on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:43PM (#22743556)
There is a difference between being a monopoly and monopolist behaviour. One has successfully become the only one standing, one is seeking to shut out competition by one method or another. At least to my understanding.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by foota on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @09:05PM (#22744619)
This could in a sense be viewed as a form of bundling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundling_(antitrust_law)) where the services being bundled are the OS and the weather app.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by quanticle on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @03:29AM (#22746524)
The problem is that bundling is only considered problematic if your product is in a monopoly position. Bundling Internet Explorer was problematic for Windows because Windows was considered to have a monopoly in the OS market.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by M2Ys4U on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @06:03AM (#22747181)
That depends on the interpretation, which differs by jurisdiction.

The EU, for example, aims its anti-competitive regulation towards firms who have a "dominant market position" rather than a "monopoly".

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by scarface74 on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @07:55PM (#22744151)
What competition? Is it “monopolistic” every time that any company buys a smaller company instead of developing it in house?
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by drusepth on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @08:18PM (#22744312)
I don't think anyone's raising any problems about Apple buying a small company instead of developing comparable functionality in-house.

People are raising concerns over Apple buying a small company and shutting down its offerings to any platform that isn't Apple's.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by scarface74 on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @08:20PM (#22744319)
So Apple should be forced to develop for a competitors platform?
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by drusepth on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @08:33PM (#22744410)
Nobody's saying that either.

Apple has a pattern of purchasing companies that already offer products on other platforms and immediately shutting all non-iOS products down.

Obviously, they're free to run their business however they want, but it's also understandable that fans of those products might be upset that their app (or APIs that power other apps they enjoy) are no longer available simply because Apple did "their usual thing". Many companies (including Apple in rare cases) maintain or even develop codebases for applications across more than one platform.

There's nothing wrong with Apple buying companies to shut them down. It just sucks for the end-users who no longer get to use those companies' products for the sole reason of "they got bought by Apple".

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by kbutler on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:49PM (#22743608)
https://bizfluent.com/about-6601606-monopoly-economics-.html

A monopoly exists when there is a single seller of a commodity. Copyrights and patents are government-granted monopolies.

A broader definition is that a monopolist is a provider that has pricing power - the ability to set prices.

Apple has a monopoly on the channel to deliver iOS apps. Anyone seeking to deliver an iOS app must accept Apple's terms, including Apple's cut of revenue.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by CarlRJ on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @07:45PM (#22744081)
> Apple has a monopoly on the channel to deliver iOS apps.

That's only a monopoly in the same sense that McDonalds has a monopoly on Big Macs. It's within their own ecosystem. Customers can decide whether they want to buy into that ecosystem or choose an alternative (like Burger King, or Android).

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by Nullabillity on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @08:29PM (#22744384)
Utter nonsense.

Buying a burger is an independent transaction. Buying a Big Mac one day doesn't make you less likely to buy a Whopper the next.

Buying a phone is an investment that locks you into that ecosystem for ~2 years (until you buy a new one), and once that time comes, both ecosystems encourage you to stick with your existing choice via purchase transfers, exclusives, and (more) seamless data transfers.

Your comparison would only make sense in a world where McD and BK competed by lacing their burgers with different drugs to get you chemically addicted.

Fuck Apple, fuck Google, and fuck Tim Cook in particular. This is fucking depressing, and almost makes COVID seem appealing. At least it would take your mind off this bullshit for a while.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by simonh on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @04:27AM (#22746778)
We're not talking about a monopoly on selling particular phones as physical products. We're talking about apps, which often, but not always are much more 'burger-like'.

I think the best analogy would be video games on console platforms, does Sony have a 'monopoly' on PlayStation games? Well, kind of if you squint really hard, not that it seems to stand in the way of a vibrant and competitive console industry and that's the key issue. If there's a competitive market that is serving customer needs, and no deceptive practices so customers have a clear choice then it's hard to argue there's a market dysfunction such as a monopoly.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by Nullabillity on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @10:30AM (#22748893)
> does Sony have a 'monopoly' on PlayStation games?

Yes? The whole console industry is equally awful, and does the same bullshit. That said, there used to be a few mitigating factors for consoles, but they have never been relevant for phones:

1. Generational incompatibility: Since console generations generally weren't backwards-compatible, every new generation would more or less reset the playing field.

2. You could have multiple consoles connected to your TV. You probably won't bring multiple phones with you every day.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by kbutler on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @09:33AM (#22748305)
Utilities within a city are monopoly providers of electricity, water, and sewer services.

"That's only a monopoly in the same sense that McDonalds has a monopoly on Big Macs. It's within their own ecosystem. Customers can decide whether they want to buy into that ecosystem or choose an alternative" (like living in the next town over, or solar power, water delivery, and portable toilets).

The fact that alternatives exist (live somewhere else! live disconnected!) does not negate the fact that the utility is a monopoly provider of those services.

The primary difference between utility monopolies and the iOS monopoly is that utilities are a "natural" monopoly (there are significant infrastructure costs to enter the market of providing running water to homes in a city) whereas the iOS monopoly is government-granted via copyrights and contracts and digital locks that exclude competitors, and those locks are again protected by DMCA copyright law.

There is no natural reason there cannot be a competing app store on iOS, except that Apple wants to preserve its monopoly.

Would you let a home builder dictate what food delivery options you have? Why let a phone builder dictate what software delivery options you have?

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by Infinitesimus on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @03:56PM (#22741783)
> But shutting down the API and Android apps feels like an egregious move by Apple.

Yes but that's inline with what you'd expect Apple to do though. They won't support any non-Apple ecosystem unless they have to - it's just their way of doing things

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by tw04 on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:21PM (#22742088)
>Yes but that's inline with what you'd expect Apple to do though.

I'd argue the exact opposite. They keep pronouncing they're now a services company. If that's TRULY their go-forward model, they should be selling services to the broadest possible audience. Shutting it down to other audiences tells me they're still a hardware company that can't see past their walled garden.

If anyone at Apple is listening, I'll say it for the thousandth time: Support Messages on Android and Windows and you will own the messaging market. If you keep kicking the can, someone will eventually take it from you. Just look at Blackberry and what you did to them... it can and will happen to you as well. BES was thought to be an impenetrable wall. Narrator: It wasn't.

This coming from someone who switched back to iPhone after the last round of goog privacy snafu's.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by enos_feedler on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @05:52PM (#22743063)
Apple has shown they are not afraid to build products that are 100% services (TV+, Music, etc). Just because a product is delivered as a service doesn't mean the correct strategy is to spray it everywhere.

It's not a matter of seeing past the walled garden. So long as there is a roadmap for deep platform integrations (identity, payments, AR, GPU, etc) and the desire for those integrations to be 100% available to _anyone_ with a blue bubble, the service will not leave Apple. IMO, it's about protecting the path of innovation while keeping a key feature (compatibility across all users) in play. Available is key because feature adoption spreads virally. Nobody wants to see someone do something in iMessage and then learn they can't do it.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by tw04 on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:13PM (#22743281)
You sound like you're reading from the RIM playbook circa 2004. It's not a matter of IF, it's a matter of WHEN the product that kills them shows up. The only reason that Facebook hasn't already supplanted them is their horrendous record on security - eventually a player without that track record will come along and eat their lunch. Facebook messenger became "good enough" just about at the exact time the Cambridge Analytica scandal happened - at which point even the non-nerds started deleting their accounts and abandoning their messaging platform.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by simonh on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:27PM (#22743412)
I think the mistake you’re making is thinking Apple cares about messaging. They don’t. They care about the iOS platform. Messages gives them a competitive advantage in that sector. Yes a competing messaging service might surpass it, in fact this has already happened in China with WeChat. This goes some way to level of the playing field with Android over there.

But putting Messages on Android would level the playing field as well. It might give them the dominant messaging platform, at least outside a China, but so what? There’s no reason for them to care about that. They’re not Facebook.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by enos_feedler on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:52PM (#22743640)
I think if Apple didn't care about messaging they would just kill their investment and let SMS and 3P apps do the job. They wouldn't just throw money away to make something they didn't care about.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by simonh on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @04:16AM (#22746728)
Please read my fourth sentence again. Messages cant give them a competitive advantage on their platform if it's on competing platforms.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by enos_feedler on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:50PM (#22743616)
No product is going to come around and kill iMessage because it isn't zero sum. iMessage has a guaranteed priority slot in the OS because Apple owns it. As an Apple user, I prefer iMessage over every other messaging platform. It is just more fun and has better expression. Period. It's too bad I can't iMessage everyone, but hey, I can iMessage lots of people. Don't think that will _ever_ go away.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by epicide on Thursday April 02, 2020 @10:00AM (#22759000)
> eventually a player without that track record will come along and eat their lunch.

And that player will need to be in the App Store, follow Apple's policies, and give them a cut of any IAPs. Either way, Apple wins.

iMessage just needs to have a better reputation than the built-in messenger for other platforms. It does _not_ need to beat all other messengers.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by madeofpalk on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:41PM (#22742318)
Apple is more in the "selling App Store access" business, not the "weather data" business.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by scarface74 on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @07:58PM (#22744176)
What’s the purpose of “owning messaging?” All of the popular messaging companies make money via advertising.

Messaging needs a network effect. The other alternative besides advertising is charging customers. Can you point to one successful platform that has a network effect and charges customers?

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by oarsinsync on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @01:48AM (#22746080)
Microsoft Windows is a successful platform that has a network effect and charges customers.

Microsoft Office (or maybe just Excel?) may qualify too, if VBScript is sufficient to label it as a platform.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by scarface74 on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @04:59AM (#22746912)
Microsoft charges OEMs not customers. I doubt many customers paid for Windows.

Also for Office, what free alternatives were there when Office was gaining popularity?

Compare that to now. How did Windows Mobile work compared to Android?

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by saagarjha on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @03:22AM (#22746496)
> Microsoft Windows is a successful platform that has a network effect and charges customers.

This isn’t really true anymore…

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by echelon on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:59PM (#22742511)
This is why we should be hostile to Swift being used outside of the Apple ecosystem.

To all the folks trying to make Swift server development compelling: please stop. Use Golang or Rust instead.

Apple is an antagonist of other platforms/ecosystems, and there's no reason to believe they won't use Swift to force developers to buy and run Macbooks.

Edit: Would the multitude of downvoters provide a counter argument? Why should we tolerate this behavior from Apple?

I'm upset when other companies use the same playbook. There's an equal opportunity for all companies to behave better here. As it stands, I do not support this.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by Larrikin on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @05:41PM (#22742952)
I didn't down vote you, but I'd personally prefer Kotlin to be the God language of multiplatform
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by saagarjha on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @03:23AM (#22746504)
> there's no reason to believe they won't use Swift to force developers to buy and run Macbooks

Other than the fact that there has been no signs of this in the past five years?

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by reaperducer on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:14PM (#22741994)
Yes but that's inline with what you'd expect Apple to do though.

Is it? Did Shazam stop working on Android when Apple ate it?

Honest question, since I don't have an Android device.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by Rebelgecko on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:19PM (#22742053)
No. Although some apps like Apple Music on Android are clearly treated like redheaded stepchildren by Apple
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by saagarjha on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:42PM (#22742324)
Apple Music in general is a remarkably poor experience on any platform.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by fenwick67 on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:17PM (#22742027)
Shazam still works on Android. But Shazam usage data is valuable, arguably.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by sah2ed on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @05:22PM (#22742756)
Perhaps you are right that data on listens is valuable to Apple.

Shazam on Android is a net producer of data, while Dark Sky on Android is a net consumer of data.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by cpeterso on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @05:30PM (#22742837)
Where does Dark Sky get its weather data? Do they crowdsource any data from their apps? If so, then continuing to support Android devices could still provide value to Apple.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by Infinitesimus on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @10:05AM (#22748559)
This is pure speculation but Shazam is a UK company and I'm 99% convinced that if they had locked the app to iOS, the European Commission would have blocked the deal and maybe sued them for anti-competitive practices.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by sbahr001 on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:20PM (#22742074)
This really sucks, I work for a stormwater environmental company and we were looking at darksky to replace our existing provider; DarkSky is one of the best providers of weather data.IBM also bought weather underground, I am really what these big tech companies want with forecasting/weather companies.

I just wish they kept the API running though.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by Godel_unicode on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @05:24PM (#22742772)
Have you considered using the National Weather Service API directly? To someone with only a casual interest in this stuff it seems like it has what I would want, curious about shortcomings compared with the many commercial offerings? Especially considering it's their data that e.g. DarkSky resells.

https://www.weather.gov/documentation/services-web-api

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by SiVal on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @08:31AM (#22747923)
The Dark Sky API combines lots of data sources, and its weather data is not limited to the US. I use it for cities all around the world. The US National Weather Service API cannot replace it.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by jmckib on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @03:46PM (#22752838)
Do you have any idea what other data sources they use? How do they do their minute-by-minute precipitation forecasts
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by SiVal on Wednesday April 08, 2020 @09:56PM (#22819115)
Sorry, I didn't see your question until now. Unless I'm mistaken, they had a list of their sources somewhere on their website that I saw a few years ago. I don't think they said where their minute-by-minute came from, but I'm quite sure they calculated that data themselves.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by jmckib on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @03:45PM (#22752834)
How does Darksky do it's minute-by-minute precipitation forecasts, though? I only see hourly forecasts in the API. I'm guessing they are doing some of their own forecasting.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by bradstewart on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:39PM (#22743519)
Your location data.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by floatingatoll on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @05:51PM (#22743050)
What business reason is there to support Dark Sky for non-Apple purposes?

If the API and apps were profitable, why did they sell to Apple?

How much did Dark Sky for Android cost? Was the 50th percentile revenue per Android user $0? Was the 90th percentile, too?

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by dashundchen on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @03:22PM (#22741397)
> I remember a few years ago Apple bought a fantastic public transit app (Embark?), shut it down and I still don’t think their Maps app comes close to the original transit app.

Semi-related but for transit apps, I much prefer the dedicated "Transit" app over any of the mapping services.

https://transitapp.com/

It has great visualizations of nearby lines and departures, gives bike/walk/taxi alternative times, allows you to select which transit systems, much more customizable in route planning, alerts on stops, schedule changes, when to leave, and it utilizes live data from other riders on where a bus or train is if you're willing to share your location during your ride.

Worked well in every North American city I've been in with a transit system.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by poooogles on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:08PM (#22741924)
>Semi-related but for transit apps, I much prefer the dedicated "Transit" app over any of the mapping services.

Have you tried Citymapper? It looks pretty similar in features and covers a different set of cities (there's some crossover but not as much as I'd of thought), might be useful.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by madeofpalk on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:44PM (#22742351)
From my use in London, out of Google Maps, Apple Maps, and Citymapper, I've found Citimapper to be the worst.

They're all basically working with the exact same data, but I find Apple Map transit directions to be the easiest to use, providing I'm in one of the limited cities it supports.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by jrockway on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @05:09AM (#22746939)
I've also never liked the built-in Transit functionality in either Google or Apple maps. It always seems like it's trying to be smart, rather than giving me the information I actually want. (The information I actually want is, "should I leave now, or will I just be stranded underground for 30 minutes?" I know how long it takes me to get down to the platform at the stations I frequent, but Apple and Google don't.)

I wrote my own little thing: https://jrock.us/mta.html. It just pulls the train arrival times for my home and work stations, the transfer stations along the way, and system-wide service advisories. It fits on one screen. The code is a trash fire (it's just jquery that injects raw HTML), but it works ;)

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by sjs382 on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @02:24PM (#22740701)
Seriously—as someone who lives in a place where a simple rainstorm can have major consequences, DarkSky's "It's going to rain in the next hour"-style alerts have become an important tool.

I'm an otherwise happy tvOS, macOS and MBP (though Android-using) customer but I'm going to need to re-consider lest I get bitten again in the future.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by windexh8er on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:08PM (#22743229)
I've been a Dark Sky user since the beginning. I likely brought about a dozen users to their service over the years. This really sucks, but I'm sure for the founders it was worth it. Apple will lose a lot of viability in Dark Sky as they'll be cutting off sensor input - so I guess, I just don't understand the move. Sure, Apple weather sucks so maybe this replaces it?

I think the thing that frustrates me is that I've been a paying customer for a long time only for the parent purchaser to shut me out. Like I said, I'm glad for the founders, but as the parent here has stated - I highly doubt Apple will do much of anything with this.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by hinkley on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @11:52PM (#22745472)
As a founder or VC you just made a lot of money. As a normal employee you just found out that 1) buyouts don’t make you rich, 2) that “success” can look exactly like failure because your product got cancelled, and in about four months, 3) that promises from your ex boss are unenforceable.

The major upside for most employees is that they just got acquihired into Apple and they get to put that on their resume. Not everyone is so fortunate.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by hinkley on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @12:40PM (#22750649)
It wasn't until I read the commentary that I realized that Dark Sky has Android developers. That may end up being an uncomfortable choice between quickly learning Swift or being phased out.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by ramraj07 on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @01:57PM (#22740370)
A two year wind down time seems more than reasonable for an API though.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by KeepFlying on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @02:47PM (#22741006)
Reasonable considering the situation , sure. But the situation shouldn't be happening in the first place. I could understand closing off the API even. What I don't accept is shuttering the Android app.

I wish they would keep that alive in even a limited way and keep all the fanciness to Apple at the very least.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by cageface on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:18PM (#22743320)
Apple's walled garden is more and more a shiny cage. Vote with your dollars and support more open alternatives. I switched to a Note 10 recently after using iPhones for years and I'm really enjoying the overall experience and the flexibility to do many things with my hardware that Apple feels I shouldn't be allowed to do.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by vertis on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:52PM (#22743641)
I ended up having to use an Apple device temporarily after my previous phone died. While there are things I really enjoy about Apple, the lack of choice is a dealbreaker for me.

I can't buy a kindle book through the app on my device, because iBooks.

Added: Ended up back on an Android device pretty quickly.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by michaelmrose on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @01:53AM (#22746104)
It's possible to strip drm from kindle and other books to avoid getting tied to a platform by prior purchases.

https://github.com/apprenticeharper/DeDRM_tools

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by vertis on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @06:03PM (#22753978)
Absolutely, and I do this when buying from Kindle. I don't consider Kindle to be perfect either, but it's still MY choice to make, not Apples. If I want to buy from Kobo or from Kindle, why should I have to do that in a web browser or on my desktop.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by doctoboggan on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @08:39PM (#22744450)
Actually you can buy the kindle book, you just have to use the web browser (not ideal I know, but just letting you know in case you find yourself in that position again)
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by benhurmarcel on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @05:53AM (#22747143)
> because iBooks

It's not because of iBooks, it's because Amazon would have to pay 30% to Apple if they sold through the app.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by scarface74 on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @08:01PM (#22744191)
So you switched to an Android device that runs proprietary Google Play Services and proprietary Samsung bloatware....
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by cageface on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @08:07PM (#22744234)
Yes because it allows me to do the following things:

1. Sideload apps that my government has decided they don't like and want banned.

2. Use real firefox to support diversity on the web

3. Use open audio codecs like FLAC without tying myself in knots

It's not perfect but in the respects that really matter it's a lot more free.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by scarface74 on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @08:19PM (#22744317)
At least for #3

https://vox.rocks/resources/ios-flac-player

And then there is that whole running an operating system written by a company whose whole m.o. is to invade your privacy.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by cageface on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @08:30PM (#22744389)
I consider that tying myself in knots. On my Samsung I just copy the files over and play them

Privacy and openness are two independent, orthogonal concepts. I agree Apple has a better overall story on privacy but I care more about openness, especially in the current political climate.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by balladeer on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @10:55PM (#22745150)
At this point the only two things that are stopping me from leaving Apple:

- The hope that iPhone 9 will not be a gigantic phone and it might actually be around the size of SE.

- There's nowhere to go to. Can't go back to generic Android. That's just a non-starter. There are no OEMs who supports a privacy focussed Android ROM and sends "timely" patches and OS upgrades (there are some niche ones but they will either never start direct service/support in my country or in a decade maybe).

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by saagarjha on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @03:25AM (#22746508)
> The hope that iPhone 9 will not be a gigantic phone and it might actually be around the size of SE.

Rumors point to a big phone :(

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by tw04 on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:36PM (#22743489)
So you move from apples to googles? At least Apple pretends to care about privacy.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by vertis on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:59PM (#22743682)
Privacy is an interesting argument. Apple theoretically respects privacy more, but you have to take their word. You don't have control of your device.

Android phones on the other hand at least have the option of installing a variant that is more privacy focused, such as Copperhead[1].

I can install F-Droid and follow some of the other recommendations on the Free Software Foundation website to "Free my Android"[2]. All without having to jailbreak my device.

Now, granted this is an expert action, but it allows people that care about it to accomplish it. Do you lose a lot of functionality? Sure, but all Security and Privacy is about trade-offs.

[1]: https://copperhead.co/android/ [2]: https://fsfe.org/campaigns/android/liberate.en.html

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by dublinben on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @09:40PM (#22744785)
For every "expert" who takes advantage of those options on Android, there are thousands upon thousands of Apple users who get better privacy by default.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by ernesth on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @04:58AM (#22746902)
So all in all, you have three options: No privacy used by billions (Android), a little privacy used by millions (iOS) or some privacy used by thousands (Android derivatives).

If you are willing to sacrifice privacy, why not go android? If you do not want to, you must buy an android phone and tweak it. Using Apple is but a compromise.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by cageface on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:44PM (#22743560)
We talk about privacy as an absolute but privacy from whom? I'm mostly concerned about the government getting and abusing my data and if I use iCloud backups all my data is right there for them to take. With Google's activity controls I feel like I have more control over what they're storing.

That said I do wish there was a third option besides Apple and Google.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by toss4732 on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @05:50AM (#22747125)
maybe in 10 years pine or purism will have usable phones.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by k9quaint on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @03:48PM (#22741685)
Crap. I liked Dark Sky. I actually downloaded it because Apple Weather predicted 50 degrees F and it turned out to be 30degrees F with another 30 windchill. Grats Dark Sky founders.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by wrycoder on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:06PM (#22741902)
It keeps greeting me every morning with the weather in Cupertino, though I’m three thousand miles away. It seems it forgets my location every upgrade.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by sneak on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:40PM (#22743522)
> they deserve a lot of credit for not selling user data

How can you say that on a day that they sold all the user data?

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by dewey on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @07:17PM (#22743824)
How do you know they did? You can buy a company without handing over any sensitive user data. I doubt Apple needs the data if it’s more of an aquihire.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by paxys on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @08:50PM (#22744521)
Yes you can technically do anything, but unless the press release says "Dark Sky is joining Apple but is also deleting all customer data from its servers beforehand" it's safe to assume that Apple owns the entire company (including its physical and intellectual assets) unless proven otherwise.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by willis936 on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @09:38PM (#22744775)
Jesus christ. That’s the second time in 3 months that I’ll have to rewrite rainmeter skins to change weather API. How hard can it be to just point to data? Time to just go NOAA.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by gregkerzhner on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:40PM (#22742304)
Interesting that Google makes a ton of apps for iOS but Apple doesn't go the other way.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by zcrackerz on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:45PM (#22742363)
That's because Google is an ad company while Apple is a hardware company.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by lozaning on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @05:57PM (#22743117)
Apple is a services company now according to them, and as demonstrated by the Apple tv app on my Samsung TV.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by fermienrico on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:05PM (#22743196)
Services != Advertisement. Advertisement is about collecting data from potential customers and offering that to advertisers. Services in the context of Apple is about selling the hardware hoping to capitalize on the ecosystem of their services (music, news, icloud, etc). In extreme cases such as Sony who sells PlayStations ("hardware") at a loss hoping to recover it from game sales ("services"). Apple is more like Sony than Google.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by toss4732 on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @05:54AM (#22747149)
There is still a few years to go by for Apple's service bucks to surpass the hardware bucks, while Sony (the gaming division) is loosing money on hardware.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by philistine on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:15PM (#22743299)
Apple has not described themselves as a services company. Tim Cook has said that growth in the company will come from services. So the company focuses on that. Apple provides some services, it is not a services company.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by paxys on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @08:52PM (#22744536)
Apple is trying its best to brand itself as a services company, but its actions show that it is not ready to actually embrace the platform openness that comes with it. Look at Microsoft for a much better example of a services-focused company which also sells hardware.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by toss4732 on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @05:55AM (#22747152)
not really, because iphones have ridiculous huge profit margins. Apple services earnings is not even close to iphone selling earnings. But one does boost the other so that's what they are doing. But there is still a few years to go by for Apple's service bucks to surpass the hardware bucks.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by mr_toad on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:54PM (#22742454)
Google wants people to use their software, Apple wants people to use their hardware.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by EpicEng on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @09:22PM (#22744711)
It's not that interesting if you take a moment to think about how either company makes money.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by turdnagel on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @04:43PM (#22742336)
AFAIK there are two Apple apps on Android: one for Apple Music, and another for migrating your data from Android to iOS.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by realityking on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @05:15PM (#22742669)
Technically five apps across two profiles:

- Move to iOS - Apple Music - Beats - Shazam - Shazam Lite

I'm actually a little surprised they didn't release Apple TV+ for Android.

Profiles - https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Apple+Inc.&h... - https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Apple,+Inc.&...

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by balladeer on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @11:02PM (#22745197)
I've used some of their Android apps (Apple Music for the longest time). It feels like someone made them as a weekend project and then Apple forgot to take it down.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by droopyEyelids on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @01:55PM (#22740337)
In Tokyo I was blown away by Apple Maps- found it way more useful than Google (gmaps is my default). Maybe only useful to tourists who are used to simpler transit systems, but I was happy to see Apple was driving the state of the art there.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by ksec on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @09:43PM (#22744801)
I think this is the new Apple Map, the old Apple Map and Map Data from Japan is possibly the worst of all maps in developed countries.

Everyone I know in Japan defaults to Map from Yahoo.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by floatingatoll on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @03:48PM (#22741687)
Apple consistently shuts down Apple apps, Android apps, and/or APIs as part of their terms of purchase over the past decade.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by Spooky23 on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @06:13PM (#22743274)
Apple always is rough with acquisitions of consumer stuff. Workflow is a great example, many of the third party integrations and Apple Watch support went poof.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by saagarjha on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @03:28AM (#22746518)
And Workflow is one the better acquisitions…
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by thayne on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @05:22PM (#22742746)
> A large economic downturn means a lot of small, independent companies will struggle to survive. Being swallowed by a megacorp might be one of the few ways to keep something alive.

This occurred to me as well, almost as soon as the economic impacts of COVID-19 was apparent. And in particular that this will strenghen the power of large coporations that can weather the storm, at the expense of smaller companies, and competition.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by dominotw on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @10:04PM (#22744902)
>A large economic downturn means a lot of small, independent companies will struggle to survive. Being swallowed by a megacorp might be one of the few ways to keep something alive.

this is going to huge oil company consolidation now

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by rswail on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @02:03AM (#22746141)
This isn't because of the economic downturn. This is because just before COVID-19, Saudia Arabia and Russia began an oil supply war.

It's a pissing match between MBS and Putin. MBS/SA wanted to increase production which lowers prices, Putin wanted to maintain current levels because lower prices let US shale oil back into the market.

Prices dropped to the mid USD 30s per barrel.

Then COVID-19 hit.

The result is that oil has dropped now to mid USD20s/barrel.

US shale oil producers are uneconomical below USD40/barrel.

Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by summerlight on Tuesday March 31, 2020 @07:09PM (#22743750)
Probably this is for aqui-hire + customer lock-in, so I doubt if we'll see any material improvements on the Apple weather app anytime soon.
Re:Apple acquires Dark Sky by onetimemanytime on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @06:28AM (#22747303)
Just like Maps, weather is a must have app so Apple is trying to do it in house. IMO, that's all there is with this move.