News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by DiabloD3 on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @08:47AM (#18228891)
There is an awful lot of "might" in that article.

Not disagreeing with it on face value, mind you, but the actual research basically states that you can't just start exercising... you have to already been exercising (and not even all that much, like, ~5000 steps ~= 2 miles a day, some HIIT (less is more) + low rep heavy weight lifting one or twice a week) benefit from this.

So, all of us who are in our 30s now? The time is now.

Also, re: weight lifting, try to target all of your muscle groups right. Don't be the guy who skips leg day, don't be the guy who has a shitty core and is trying to squat 250+. Guys like Jeff Cavaliere are who to look at on how to do this right.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by bad_user on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:12AM (#18229041)
If you’re in your 30s a much better bet for your overall health and for keeping Alzheimer’s away is giving up on sugar, since there’s a strong link between Alzheimer’s and insulin resistance.

Exercise too does help a little with insulin resistance (but not enough to repair the damage done by a diet high in sugar), plus people that exercise tend to also eat healthy.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by darkerside on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @12:50PM (#18230907)
Much like we used to think dietary fat created visceral fat, and dietary cholesterol created blood cholesterol, we've been operating under the assumption that eating sugar is the primary cause of high blood sugar leading to insulin resistance. When you look at the glycemic index and glycemic load of foods, it's actually wheat that comes out on top. Cutting wheat out of your diet is likely to be much more effective at reducing your insulin resistance, and there are often a litany of other positive health outcomes as well.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by bad_user on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @12:41AM (#18236172)
Don’t know what the glycemic index says on sugar, but that’s not the whole story.

The story is that fructose gets metabolized differently than glucose and for example leads to accumulation of fat in your liver and then your pancreas and it’s all downhill from there, I.e. having a fatty pancreas is correlated very well with insulin resistance and prediabetes.

And then the problem with sucrose and HCFS are is that they have both glucose and fructose and the foods containing them have no fiber to slow down the digestion, so it’s hitting that liver hard, with that fructose being converted directly in fat deposits.

I do agree that wheat is bad too. Personally I’ve cut wheat from my diet.

But don’t look at the glycemic index alone as that’s an oversimplification.

Also let’s get one thing straight ... you cannot live without fat, no matter what fat we’re talking about and anybody that claims otherwise doesn’t know what he’s talking about. And you can die without salt. In these cases the debate has always been about quantity.

But you can live without putting another gram of sugar in your mouth for your remaining life. Although it’s pretty hard to do because sugar is in everything these days, including packaged bread because it extends shelf life ;-)

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by justinator on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @01:20PM (#18231199)
> Much like we used to think dietary fat created visceral fat, and dietary cholesterol created blood cholestero

Those have been debunked. You're running on that same assumption, correct?

> we've been operating under the assumption that eating sugar is the primary cause of high blood sugar leading to insulin resistance

That's called Type 2 Diabetes. I don't know if that's an assumption?

> When you look at the glycemic index and glycemic load of foods, it's actually wheat that comes out on top.

Wheat is glucose though, not fructose.

Cutting soda out of your diet is probably better than having a naked sandwich.

I would say that switching to whole wheat from white bread is a positive, though.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by darkerside on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @01:34PM (#18231345)
Sorry if I was unclear, but you seem to have completely misunderstood my post. I hardly know where to start with clarifying.

1. Yes, those have been debunked. That's why I said "used to".

2. Most people assume dietary sugar creates high blood sugar. I'm stating that, like saying dietary fat makes you fat, it sounds intuitive but may not be true.

3. Yes, wheat is glucose. Why do you mention fructose? I didn't.

Whole wheat bread will raise your blood sugar, just like white bread.

And possibly more than soda. http://quittingsugar.com/2012/07/11/bread-and-coke-smackdown...

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by justinator on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @01:50PM (#18231492)
> 2. Most people assume dietary sugar creates high blood sugar. > I'm stating that, like saying dietary fat makes you fat, > it sounds intuitive but may not be true.

Consuming excess amounts of fructose will (via complicated metabolic pathways) produce a lot of uric acid by your liver. That's what's causing hypertension. This shows the metabolic pathway diagrammed out:

https://youtu.be/dBnniua6-oM?t=3395

Pretty interesting.

Is there a competing theory?

> 3. Yes, wheat is glucose. Why do you mention fructose? I didn't.

Glucose is not sugar; fructose is. They take different pathways when metabolized. It's true that lots of white bread has added sugar, but that's not the wheat. I would say that if wheat is a silent killer, France would be in big trouble, and they're not.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by darkerside on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @03:11PM (#18232248)
Hypertension? How is that relevant??

Glucose is absolutely sugar. Fructose and glucose are both simple sugars (table sugar is sucrose, a disaccharide composed of glucose and fructose).

The starch in wheat is made up of long chains of glucose, which again, is a sugar. It sometimes has added sugar as well. Both those facts are true for both white and wheat bread.

RE: France, are you kidding me? French people do get fat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_France

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by bad_user on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @08:25AM (#18238258)
> RE: France, are you kidding me? French people do get fat.

Like most of the world that switches to a "western diet", France is not immune to it. They've got McDonald's and junk food there too.

That said France has been a "paradox", as noted since the 1980s, due to their low incidence of coronary heart disease or other chronic diseases, in spite of their high consumption of dietary fat and cholesterol.

Of course, the French diet is only a paradox due to the American dietary guidelines being dead wrong. And as they switch more and more to the American diet, of course, they stop being a paradox.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by justinator on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @03:22PM (#18232360)
> Hypertension? How is that relevant??

Hypertension is another word for high blood sugar - that's what you were talking about. It's part of a larger related problem called, Metabolic Dysfunction/Syndrome

> Glucose is absolutely sugar.

Glucose is a complex carbohydrate. Sugar is not, it's a simple sugar.

Edit: As other's have pointed out, I am wrong: glucose is a simple carb - the fact remains that it is not fructose and still feel that this is important.

Fructose is metabolized in the liver via Fructolysis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructolysis

Glucose can be utilized by almost every living cell on earth:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbohydrate_metabolism

And that big difference is why taking in cals. via sugar is different than taking it in via glucose, even though, as you say, glucose is just a long chain of simplier carbs.

> RE: France, are you kidding me? French people do get fat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_France

Fat isn't necessarily unhealthy; Metabolic Syndrome is the underlying problem.

It's all interesting stuff, huh?

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by inimino on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @03:58PM (#18232692)
Hypertension is high blood pressure. Glucose is a simple sugar.

With respect, please do some fact checking before restating whatever you think you know outside your area of expertise.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by bad_user on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @08:03AM (#18238135)
Hypertension can be caused by many factors, including genetics, however there are indications that one of the biggest factors is sugar consumption and not salt, as was previously believed and still is to some extent.

I've been reading The Salt Fix (http://thesaltfix.com), it has references to many studies ... not sure what to think of it, but being confronted with a serious electrolytes deficiency lately and having the symptoms to go with it, I tend to believe it.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by justinator on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @04:20PM (#18232883)
As a professional athlete, health is an area of my expertise. Desk jockying is the hobby.

Lots of different issues are related, and I'm not going to say there can be a simple way to make it all make sense - for example: what is the symptom, and what is the disease?

I'm trying to share what I know to help others, not to stroke my own ego. If I make mistakes in typing things out, I apologize. I never said I was a doctor, and I appreciate the feedback.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by tomjakubowski on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @03:57PM (#18232687)
Glucose and fructose are both monosaccharides - also known as "simple sugars".

Sucrose, "table sugar", is a disaccharide of one glucose group and one fructose group.

"Complex carbohydrate" is ill-defined, but I guess could refer to polymeric saccharides, a classification which wouldn't apply to sucrose, glucose, or fructose. In any case, you'd need a strange perspective to see glucose as a "complex carbohydrate": it's only got six carbon atoms.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by justinator on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @03:59PM (#18232705)
> Glucose and fructose are both monosaccharides - also known as "simple sugars".

Point taken.

The metabolism of the two are still, very different (glucose and fructose)

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by pmichaud on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @04:11PM (#18232817)
This thread has sunk into absurdity. I assume at this point that you are a hilarious troll, but in case you are actually serious: virtually everything you said is wrong on a basic level you could verify with Wikipedia or whatever.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by justinator on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @04:59PM (#18233221)
I am being as honest as possible - I'm not a troll. Do trolls usually have 6+ year accounts?

But, I do try to study up on the subject, since I am an athlete. If I bobbled two things up: calling glucose a complex carb, and mixing up high blood pressure with high sugar levels, I believe I believe I have already apologized and conceded that I was wrong. If it isn't clear, take this post as doing that again.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by makemoniesonlin on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @03:57PM (#18232688)
>Glucose is a complex carbohydrate

Citation? Everywhere I look says that it is a simple sugar.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by bad_user on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @07:54AM (#18238092)
> 2. Most people assume dietary sugar creates high blood sugar. I'm stating that, like saying dietary fat makes you fat, it sounds intuitive but may not be true.

That is not what most people assume. In fact sugar has never been vilified properly, which is why diabetics are still prescribed diets with sugar, which is basically murder.

But btw — this is not an assumptions, you can actually measure it at home. I got a glucose meter at home, got it for self experimentation. Whenever I eat something with sugar in it, my blood glucose spikes and even stays slightly higher than my average for several hours afterwards. Whenever I'm eating meat or green veggies however, I don't get any glucose or insulin response (you can measure your insulin response by noticing a lower blood glucose than the baseline).

You can also understand if you're a diabetic or pre-diabetic too by the time it takes your blood glucose levels to come back to the baseline (the level you were at prior to eating). If it takes 2 hours, you're still insulin sensitive enough. If it takes 4 hours, you're a diabetic, or well on your way to becoming one.

Self experimentation is actually easy in this case, you don't have to guess ;-)

In fact T2 diabetes is not a disease of high blood sugar, although the health care industry is yet to fully acknowledge it. T2 diabetes is a disease of hyperinsulinemia (i.e. high levels of insulin in your blood), which creates a vicious cycle that can lead to high blood sugar as a symptom, due to developing insulin resistance, which makes your pancreas dump more and more insulin into the blood stream, until the pancreas is no longer able to keep up with the required load of insulin, very high blood sugar levels being the symptom. At some point the beta cells of the pancreas begin to die too. And if you lose the function of your pancreas, that's T1 diabetes.

Interestingly T1 diabetics can also develop T2 diabetes by injecting themselves with too much insulin. People without a functional pancreas (T1) and with high insulin resistance (T2) are essentially screwed.

This is why treating T2 diabetes by giving patients synthetic insulin shots is like giving them poison, the same poison that's been making them ill, treating the symptom and not the disease.

To treat T2 diabetes, or pre-diabetes (which is prevalent in half of the US's population by now), you have to stop your body from producing so much insulin.

Many doctors claim that T2 diabetes is a degenerative disease that can only get worse (if you give them poison as treatment, of course) and yet many T2 diabetics have reportedly achieved full remission, completely getting rid of their medication, by switching to low carbs diets. Assuming they still have a functional pancreas of course.

---

So yes, it's without doubt that dietary sugar creates high blood sugar and T2 diabetes, but the way it does that (via hyperinsulinemia) is not common knowledge or treated properly ;-)

But to make things clear — we are talking of sugar as in the generally understood sense of sucrose and HCFS, whose consumption has been out of control and rising since the end of WWII at least, with obesity and diabetes rates to match it. And we can agree that anything based on white flour has been a problem too.

We are not talking about eating fresh apples (although apple juice is a problem). And fruits too are damaging on diabetes, anything with a lot of carbohydrates becomes damaging, so we'd better ensure that we don't get there.

Cutting out the sucrose, the HCFS and even the white flour is not such a drastic change. A few years back people couldn't imagine living without cigarettes either.

My grandparents lived without any sugar in their diets (countryside folks), my grandfather was eating 10 eggs per day and lived to 99 years old, working his land until 95.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by darkerside on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @12:10PM (#18240460)
We're not disagreeing here, except I'd argue most people DO in fact still think (incorrectly) that fat makes you fat.

Have you measured blood sugar after ingesting bread, and compared it to ingesting pure sugar? It might surprise you to know that a typical serving of bread will cause your blood sugar to spike MORE than even a very large amount of sugar.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by francisofascii on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @10:45AM (#18229770)
This might be simplistic thinking, but isn't this why exercise helps? The liver turns the fructose from the sugar into glycogen. Exercise consumes the glycogen before it has a chance to be overly abundant, which is what causes the harmful effects. So you can either avoid sugar altogether, or have sugar with sufficient exercise.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by justinator on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @01:38PM (#18231392)
Yeah, you have a good point. When/while you exercise fructose can be more easily converted to glucose, to be used right away by the body (faster than glucose alone). That's what's meant by, "a higher metabolism"

Under rest, 30% of fructose is converted to fat by the liver.

https://youtu.be/dBnniua6-oM?t=3873

The real reason to exercise (for health) is it improves your skeletal muscle insulin sensitivity - it's certainly not because you burn a ton of calories from the exercise,

https://youtu.be/dBnniua6-oM?t=4300

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by darkerside on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @12:58PM (#18230990)
As in my other comment, I see more benefit from cutting wheat than sugar. But to your question, keeping your blood sugar low, and then exercising, helps your metabolic flexibility, i.e. your body's ability to generate energy from fat. So the best answer is, do both.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by david-cako on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @12:59PM (#18230997)
I think simple carbohydrates are a much bigger silent evil than even alcohol and opioids.

Alcohol and opioids at least have a stigma, and most governments enforce marketing and public health information accordingly. Starch and sugar can never be appropriately demonized because they are "just food", and have some of the largest companies in the US behind them.

The advent of processed food has created 2 entire generations of obese, insulin resistant people. The marketing starts as young as possible, and it is normalized to not think twice about eating sugar all day.

I'm still trying to get over the fact that the FDA actually banned partially hydrogenated oil. Very surprising that they said no to the entire processed food industry in such a big way, to the benefit of consumers. I'm sure the food conglomerates went into it knowing they had other options like interesterified oils up their sleeves, though.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by kevin_thibedeau on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @11:55AM (#18230374)
That doesn't implicate sugar any more than excess body fat. There is no established causality from sugar intake. It's just popular to slam on sugar and promote fat acceptance so sugar is the "obvious" demon.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by ecwilson on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @01:01PM (#18231027)
Can you clarify what you mean? I might have misunderstood you. I was a little flabberghasted that you seemed to say that there's no causality between sugar and insulin resistance. Based on everything I've been reading in the past 10 years, there's very clear causality between insulinogenic foods, insulin resistance, and body fat. The mechanisms, I thought, were also very well understood.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by justinator on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @01:22PM (#18231227)
Perhaps they're talking about Alzheimers specifically? If you frame Alzheimers as a disease of affluence (Which is a bit of a stretch, I'll admit), you could look to the same causes (like excess added sugar in industrialized diets)
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by jayalpha on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @06:06AM (#18237653)
There is a link between sugar intake and diabetes.

Some people also suggest Alzheimer is a 3rd form of diabetes. I read a study that nasal applied insulin actually helps Alzheimer.

So, no slamming of sugar, just some preliminary evidence that may want to ask yourself if you really need to drink a liter or 2 liters of coke per day.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by copperx on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @12:08PM (#18230502)
I wonder whether taking Metformin defensively helps in any way to reduce the odds of Alzheimer's if you have metabolic syndrome.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by abledon on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @12:36PM (#18230764)
But my brain runs on glucose !
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by jesssse on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @04:58PM (#18233208)
Sugar is nutritious for people who have a healthy gut biome.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by mg74 on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:41AM (#18229254)
This.

STOP EATING SUGAR PEOPLE!

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by DamnInteresting on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:50AM (#18229329)
> STOP EATING SUGAR PEOPLE!

But sugar people are delicious! They're such sweethearts.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by overcast on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @11:47AM (#18230293)
Sour Patch Kids for life <3
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by zeroxfe on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @11:33AM (#18230178)
eats shoots and leaves
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by beaconstudios on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:13AM (#18229047)
> don't be the guy who has a shitty core and is trying to squat 250+

I don't really get this advice. I compound lift and when I was lifting regularly I peaked at 145kg/320lbs. I've never done focused core exercises with any regularity, I just focused on good form/posture and a neutral spine. Perhaps compound lifting itself is enough to build the core strength you need for squatting? Obviously I wouldn't recommend other people leave it out, but it doesn't seem to have done me any harm.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by CPLX on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:28AM (#18229149)
It's a confusing statement. Squatting is a core exercise.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by SketchySeaBeast on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:54AM (#18229356)
I've never performed a plank or crunch in the many, many, years I've been squatting and it's never been a problem. If you try any sort of slow steady progression you don't need to - things adapt to take care of themselves. I've put well over 500 lbs on the bar and never worried about my core.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by rsync on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @12:26PM (#18230666)
"I've never performed a plank or crunch in the many, many, years I've been squatting and it's never been a problem. If you try any sort of slow steady progression you don't need to - things adapt to take care of themselves. I've put well over 500 lbs on the bar and never worried about my core."

In a perfect world, this is true - and I wish you continued good luck and health.

However, you should reflect on the mechanical advantages and levers that your body is capable of producing as it curves and flexes around a particular joint ...

500 lbs distributed nicely and evenly across all of your vertebrae works quite nicely ... but all you need is a little twist ... a little hiccup ... just two or three vertebrae coming into line instead of a gentle curve ... and you suddenly have multi-hundreds of pounds on one little lever.

Not to spoil it for you, but the squishy little disc loses.

I am a huge proponent of back squats without aids - like belts - for the purpose of developing natural core strength like what you have experienced, but it is very, very cheap insurance to work your abs/back/sides in addition.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by SketchySeaBeast on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @12:46PM (#18230870)
> I am a huge proponent of back squats without aids - like belts - for the purpose of developing natural core strength like what you have experienced, but it is very, very cheap insurance to work your abs/back/sides in addition.

Belts are aids in that they allow you to literally flex your stomach muscles and valsalva to a great degree - they provide no intrinsic support, instead providing something to brace your own muscles against. This is literally the argument one makes for core work! I also agree - it's important to learn to be able to squat without a belt, and I largely will with the exception of my heaviest sets of the day. It helps you appreciate the assistance and work on your own unaided valsalva.

If you do slip into this catastrophic scenario you're visualizing, being able to hold a static plank for 3 minutes isn't going to help that - you haven't trained the muscle at all to do what it needs to do at that moment - stop being static and move. Having the sheer grunt power and experience of having hundreds of lbs on your back for years is what's going to save you, and I'd argue that there's plenty of muscle groups that you've built up over the years to keep you safe in just such a circumstance - your spine isn't floating in a vat supported only by abs. I've dumped the bar, failed lifts, things have slipped, but I've never slipped a disc because I am strong enough to survive the load.

Do accidents happen and people get hurt? Absolutely, but both runners and old ladies slip discs too.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by magic_beans on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @02:31PM (#18231914)
Eventually this is going to catch up with you. It only takes 6 minutes every few days to train your core. Neglecting it WILL lead to injury, no matter how good your habits are under the barbell.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by SketchySeaBeast on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @02:46PM (#18232048)
> Neglecting it WILL lead to injury

I would love to see some evidence of this. Here's Brian Shaw's workout routine. Without question one of the strongest men in the world, I see no dedicated core work:

http://deadliftworkouts.com/train-strongman-series-brian-sha...

Core work is not a bad thing, but it's not required.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by madeuptempacct on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:17AM (#18229078)
My impression is that if you have good posture to begin with, you might just "lift right" off the bat. I have to do a ton of supplementary work to balance out my posture issues. And the progress is slower than people generally like to admit.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by beaconstudios on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:20AM (#18229099)
my posture has always been pretty terrible (until I got to higher weights and my posture has straightened out) so I'm not sure its that. Though I think squatting with a low bar and not moving up in weight until I was happy with my form may have helped to compensate for that.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by slothtrop on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @10:52AM (#18229835)
Strange. From lifting I developed what seems to be pretty common: anterior pelvic tilt. My lower back muscles being tight would pull my hips back. This went away with some stretching. Also I stopped doing Yates rows which I think compounded that issue. I'm happy posture-wise but do get the sense my shoulders should naturally fall further back. I think shoulder droop is the hardest thing to get rid of if you work a desk job.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by snowwrestler on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @11:40AM (#18230239)
This might be an example what the GP meant about doing core work in addition to squatting. If your lower back is strong, your abs need to be strong too to keep things in balance.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by slothtrop on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @12:36PM (#18230771)
Core strength matters, but the perpetual shortening of muscle strands is understated. If you're just standing on two feet, strong core won't keep your hips from being tilted back involuntarily, ime. Not how I got rid of the problem.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by beaconstudios on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @12:02PM (#18230440)
if you're working your lower back during squats, your form is incorrect and you're risking injury. Your spine should be neutral throughout the movement - the lifting force comes primarily from your quads and glutes.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by slothtrop on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @12:29PM (#18230693)
Er, it's part of the posterior chain and squats will always target the lower back to an extent, both high and low-bar. Squats were one of Arnold's favorite lower-back exercises. No way you walk away from heavy squats without feeling it there.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by beaconstudios on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @12:39PM (#18230796)
to be clear, I meant working as in bearing load - of course your lower back will be active in stabilising your spine through the movement, as will your core. So you're going to feel that, especially if you're keeping tight. But your lower back shouldn't be generating the force necessary to lift the weight.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by slothtrop on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @02:14PM (#18231717)
OK, we agree
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by joncrocks on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @12:14PM (#18230563)
Yes, you should not good-morning the weight.

But if you are low-bar squatting, your back isn't going to be completely upright, and so keeping a significant weight at a angle requires muscular contraction. Your back is going to get worked.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by slothtrop on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @12:30PM (#18230704)
Hell, even high-bar isn't completely upright, and even if it was, you'll get tension there.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by bongo662 on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @11:08AM (#18229982)
What stretches did you do to help with your APT? I think I have it slightly and would like to work on it.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by slothtrop on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @02:17PM (#18231747)
I would stretch my hip flexors by lying on my stomach and grabbing one leg at a time by the heel, and also go into a super-low squat position while holding on to something for support, letting the low back really stretch. Another one was lying on my stomach, arms above me somewhat wider than shoulder width, and twisting from one side to the other. I'm not sure which of these helped most but between them my APT disappeared.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by madeuptempacct on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:34AM (#18229193)
It could be that we are taking different approaches to do the same thing - you hold off on moving up in weight and repeat the exercises, whereas I hold off, repeat the exercise, and do supplementary glute and core work to avoid my spine curving too much in the "right" way.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by beaconstudios on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:36AM (#18229218)
yeah that makes sense. Either way is a "safety first" approach, which is the most important factor.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by criddell on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @11:25AM (#18230116)
How did you evaluate your posture? Did you hire a trainer?
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by saiya-jin on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:11AM (#18229029)
Not that I utterly disagree with what you write, but there is almost nothing you wrote mentioned in the article.

Yes, almost any exercise is better than none. The earlier in life the better. Good core is super important in, well, anything including sitting on the chair. Hiit I consider very good based on effects on me, but would like to see some long-term results and its definitely only for people already doing some regular training.

But where do you get the low rep info? This is good for only very specific exercise goals, mainly bodybuilding. Not something most people should strive for. Arnold type body looks great on photos, but is utterly impractical for normal life, super hard to reach and maintain. Low rep means you are close to your limits, which is area where injuries happen a lot, and wear on all parts of the body happens much more (muscles love it, but joints and connective tissue disagrees, and spine has a say in the topic too). Wear is something you are not aware of till its too late and all kinds of pain start to manifest.

Lighter weights, more reps(15-20), shorter stops between them (30-60s), and you not only gain much better results in stamina (what good is it to be able to lift 100kg 3x times and you're done, when you need to move apartment for example or do multi-hour hike/anything else). Muscles grow like crazy too, if you have weights just right. Its much easier to keep good form of exercise when you are not at your limit.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by buckhx on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:38AM (#18229236)
Low reps (<=5) maximize strength, you're not going to get Arnold muscles if your goal is strength. Bodybuilding emphasizes size > strength and is more in the medium reps range (8-10). Higher reps basically turn into cardio and joint stability work.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by SketchySeaBeast on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:56AM (#18229381)
I really like this chart for references on rep range:

https://i.imgur.com/UrF1U.png

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by elhudy on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:32AM (#18229179)
>Lighter weights, more reps(15-20)

I was with you until you got here. A typical high-rep range for compound work should be between 8-12. 12-15 for auxiliary work. Most lifters would consider a rep range of between 3-5 to be low-rep.

>and you not only gain much better results in stamina (what good is it to be able to lift 100kg 3x times and you're done, when you need to move apartment for example or do multi-hour hike/anything else

Heavy lifting actually trains both fast-twitch and slow twitch muscle fibers, as it takes your entire muscle to lift heavy. The reverse can not be said for higher-repetition lifting. I've never trained in the mentioned rep range and anecdotally am able to do multi-hour hikes/anything else just fine. I find that the running/biking crowd loves to perpetuate this myth and generally does so with use of the phrase "meat-head".

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by saiya-jin on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:54AM (#18229357)
Since we do anecdotes here, a friend who is purely heavy lifter (squats, deadlifts, benchpresses etc), exactly in those low reps range, and pretty good at it. He is utterly useless in 2h+ hikes with 1000m+ elevation gains.

Glad you don't disagree that its more injury-prone to lift heavy. Of course its all good if one has perfect form, but technically its impossible to keep it 100% of the time. Again anecdotally I had various smaller tendon/ligament issues when lifting at my max, every few months I had to stop for a week or two to heal. Since switching to what I described, I can do exactly the same, but no injury at all for 4 years.

But all bodies are unique, I found what works for me and my goals long term, if different approach works for you, stick to it.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by drawnwren on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @10:05AM (#18229448)
In the case of weight lifting, it's usually the mind, not the body, that leads to injury. Crossfit is probably the fastest way to injure yourself, followed by trying to lift more than you should. It's injury prone to make your body do more than it should, you can lift heavy and not do this. Similarly, it's quite easy to stay in the good form zone and still get a good workout. You aren't going to be Ronnie Coleman, but you'll be healthy.

And yeah, I hope no one is claiming that weight lifting trains your aerobic system.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by elhudy on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @10:13AM (#18229514)
>And yeah, I hope no one is claiming that weight lifting trains your aerobic system.

The issue is when people claim that weight lifting is detrimental to cardio-related activities, which is what OP seems to be insinuating.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by elhudy on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @10:02AM (#18229428)
>Since we do anecdotes here, a friend who is purely heavy lifter (squats, deadlifts, benchpresses etc), exactly in those low reps range, and pretty good at it. He is utterly useless in 2h+ hikes with 1000m+ elevation gains.

The difference is that I made a statement which is scientifically accepted as true, followed by an anecdote to support it:

"Heavy lifting actually trains both fast-twitch and slow twitch muscle fibers, as it takes your entire muscle to lift heavy. The reverse can not be said for higher-repetition lifting."

There's a reason why NFL running backs can run an entire game and still squat 600 lbs; basketball players are also some of the most active athletes but still put up huge lifting numbers. Reps in the 12-20 range do not increase muscular endurance any more than the 6-8 rep range. [1]

[1]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18787090

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by nradov on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @10:38AM (#18229706)
I generally agree, but in a regulation NFL game the running backs are typically only running for about 5 minutes total.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by gamblor956 on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @10:53AM (#18229845)
The study you linked does not support your claims.

Also, professional athletes do both high rep and low rep weight training. The high rep build the strength but the low rep build the endurance to use the strength.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by elhudy on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @11:39AM (#18230223)
>The study you linked does not support your claims.

It does support my claims - but that was not the purpose of the study so you'll actually have to read beyond the abstract to see it

>Also, professional athletes do both high rep and low rep weight training. The high rep build the strength but the low rep build the endurance to use the strength.

I agree - which is why I don't believe that heavy weightlifting is detrimental to one's ability to do multi-hour hikes.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by n4r9 on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @10:18AM (#18229553)
> Since we do anecdotes here, a friend who is purely heavy lifter (squats, deadlifts, benchpresses etc), exactly in those low reps range, and pretty good at it. He is utterly useless in 2h+ hikes with 1000m+ elevation gains.

Kind of a false equivalence. Firstly, I'm not sure that long, arduous hikes are very relatable to e.g. moving around in old age, whereas doing a single squat is absolutely comparable to getting out of a chair for anyone. Secondly, my guess is that you'd be utterly useless if you had to carry a pack whose weight equalised the difference between your respective bodyweights.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by gamblor956 on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @10:48AM (#18229792)
Heavy lifting actually trains both fast-twitch and slow twitch muscle fibers, as it takes your entire muscle to lift heavy.

If that were true bodybuilders would do great at marathons and triathlons.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by elhudy on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @10:57AM (#18229887)
>If that were true bodybuilders would do great at marathons and triathlons.

It takes more than leg and back muscle to do great at marathons and triathlons. Aerobic development, VO2 max, lactate threshold are just as important. Further, you would want less weight (muscle mass) in the areas that are not required for your marathon. That's why many professional bikers and marathon runners intentionally neglect gaining upper body muscle.

Weight lifting won't train you to run a marathon, but it certainly isn't detrimental towards multi-hour hikes. Don't move the goal-posts on me :)

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by slothtrop on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @10:54AM (#18229863)
You have it backwards. Bodybuilding is mainly high-rep, often with isolating exercises for muscle hypertrophy. Obviously concessions are made to improve strength for size, but strength training is where you really see the focus on low-reps.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by vidarh on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:39AM (#18229241)
Low reps is more frequently used for powerlifting than bodybuilding. Body builders tends to use medium to high reps.

(And Arnolds body type is not possible without steroids, in any case)

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by rebuilder on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @11:34AM (#18230184)
You can just as easily get too close to your limits with high-rep work. In fact, if I've ever been injured doing something, it's been wear and tear from high-repetition strength endurance exercise. IMO neither is inherently mote dangerous than the other, you have to know your limits whatever the repetion range you work in.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by YinglingLight on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:34AM (#18229195)
>Arnold type body looks great on photos, but is utterly impractical for normal life

No one gets "buff" on accident. No one gets to the size where they have trouble fitting through a door on accident (and without drugs).

>Low rep means you are close to your limits, which is area where injuries happen a lot

High reps = more movement, and just like a hard disk drive, more movement means more chances for failure. The injury that sent me to the chiropractor was a warm-up ~125lb Deadlift that I did with impromper form. Weight does not correlate with Injury risk.

>what good is it to be able to lift 100kg 3x times and you're done, when you need to move apartment for example

The "joints and connective tissue" (tendons aka grip) you mentioned prior is exactly what gets trained on heavy reps, and takes a LONG time to develop.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by saiya-jin on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @10:05AM (#18229444)
> High reps = more movement, and just like a hard disk drive, more movement means more chances for failure. The injury that sent me to the chiropractor was a warm-up ~125lb Deadlift that I did with impromper form. Weight does not correlate with Injury risk.

You don't see any logical fallacy in your statement? If more movement = simply more risk, then ultra-trail runners would be all in wheelchairs in 5 years. What you load on yourself on top of your weight makes huge difference. Give those ultras 10kg backpack and they will be having all kinds of knee/ankle issues in very short time.

Doing deadlift warmup with cca 55kg seems ridiculously high, I am not surprised you eventually had an injury. Really buffed up guys in my gym start with cca 30 kg only after proper warmup of whole body via some other way (I do it same way, usually on elliptic trainer for 5 mins).

Joints and tendons get trained with whatever you do, bodyweight can still do the trick if done properly. You are right it takes horrible amount of time, also healing injury can take months easily. I prefer sport climbing for those, flexibility required is substantial, and overall the sport is awesome on every single level, especially on the rock outdoors.

Whatever works for you long term, stick to it. You should know your body better than anyone else. I know amount of load made a big difference in injury risk for me, going lighter but still almost till muscle failure I have lost 0 of the power, and gained tons of endurance. But that's just me.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by nradov on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @10:43AM (#18229741)
All of the ultra-trail runners I've known have had significant injuries from overuse or falling on the trail. When you're exhausted at the end of a 50 mile race it's easy to trip over a root and blow out your knee. A single mistake is all it takes.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by joncrocks on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @12:03PM (#18230452)
Just as note, for a trained adult male, a first set warming up for deadlifts with ~60kg is not uncommon.

A regular bar is ~20kg by itself.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by vanderZwan on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @08:58AM (#18228954)
> So, all of us who are in our 30s now? The time is now.

This is true for exercising regardless, TBH. The more you build up now, the less trouble you have maintaining it later.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by cheez on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:02AM (#18228975)
I do ~12,000 steps/day and HIIT 3x/week but I have trouble incorporating weight lifting primarily because I can do the other two without needing a gym, which is very difficult (single dad, 2 kids, sole caretaker, 2 businesses). Any suggestions?
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by fpoling on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:36AM (#18229215)
Dumbbells especially adjustable ones do not take a lot of space and they are not only for the upper body muscles. Squats with dumbbells especially bolgarian ones is a good way to get muscles on legs and it is enough to do it once a week as long as weights are heavy enough so you cannot do more than 8-12 repetitions. But I would advise to pay an instructor for first few times to get the proper technique to avoid mistakes leading to injuries.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by dahart on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @08:53PM (#18234641)
I like Matt Might’s article on least resistance weight training: http://matt.might.net/articles/hacking-strength/

A quick summary: No gym, lifting is at home 3 days per week of 30 minutes each day. First form a habit, any kind of exercise will do. Sounds like you’re there. Once lifting, keep it compact and accessible, start with just a bench and adjustable dumbbells. He also only does a few minutes at a time, not a half hour block. Eat some protein.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by cheez on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @09:35AM (#18238762)
This is fantastic, and also the trend I seem to be going towards. Lazy as possible with the most results. Makes sense for techies, eh. Thanks for the post!
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by nradov on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @10:29AM (#18229641)
If you can join a gym with an indoor pool and sign your kids up for swimming lessons then that will give you at least 30 minutes twice a week to lift.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by wkrause on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:17AM (#18229076)
Resistance bands, a pull-up bar and a TRX go a long way for a fraction of the cost and space of a gym. Not as effective as free weights (in my personal experience) for putting on a lot of new muscle, but still quite effective.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by guiambros on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @11:05PM (#18235811)
+1 to resistance bands. This has been life changing for me. Minimal space, fraction of cost, and I get to exercise in my home office, watching something useful (currently going through fast.ai videos). Double win.

Here's the ones I use [1][2].

[1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006O0GDMO

[2] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01NH55SAK/

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by juandazapata on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @12:59PM (#18231000)
Kettlebells are absolutely great. You can unlock a full range of movements and do a full body work out with just a couple kettlebells.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by cheez on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @02:07PM (#18231649)
This sounds like the ticket. Will look into it, thanks.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by adrianN on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @10:49AM (#18229803)
You can go a long way with just bodyweight exercises. I like the progressions by "ElDiablo".
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by cheez on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @11:54AM (#18230367)
I'm familiar with bodyweight exercises/calesthenics. I just don't feel my strength improving, though the flexibility is through the roof. I would like to be conventionally "strong" before I die, at least once!
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by adrianN on Thursday October 18, 2018 @11:14AM (#18248975)
If you don't feel your strength improving, you need to try harder exercises. Can you already do a one-legged squat? A one-armed push-up? A handstand pushup? A one armed pull-up?
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by cheez on Thursday October 18, 2018 @01:02PM (#18250032)
Does it sound right that I think I'd need to lose more weight before I could do those? I'm 6'3" and "lumbering" is the right way to describe me. I only ever see small, light people doing those.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by adrianN on Monday October 22, 2018 @06:08AM (#18273420)
As with all bodyweight exercises, having less bodyweight makes them easier :). I'm 6'2" myself and always jealous of the 50kg asian dudes that can do all kinds of crazy things easily. However, I can do one-legged squats and one armed pushups and I'm working (for quite some time now...) on a press-to-handstand.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by beaconstudios on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:19AM (#18229087)
do you have space in your home for a set of dumbbells? You can lift plenty of weight using just those. A barbell is better if you have room for some basic equipment (flat bench, squat stand/power rack, rubber mats for deadlifts if you have a solid floor).
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by dsego on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @12:04PM (#18230456)
Calisthenics.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by Scarbutt on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @11:51AM (#18230335)
If you are squatting 250 you already have a strong core.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by chc on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @12:57PM (#18230984)
Does the literature actually suggest that skipping leg day causes Alzheimer's?
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by atomical on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @08:59AM (#18228958)
The internet loves lifting. Cool, but the kind of legs you get from walking a lot are fine too.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by elhudy on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:14AM (#18229051)
Agreed that walking is great. However, the positive bone-density effects of lifting are greater than those of walking [1].

>Both aerobic and resistance training exercise can provide weight-bearing stimulus to bone, yet research indicates that resistance training may have a more profound site specific effect than aerobic exercise.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9927006

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by atomical on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:16AM (#18229067)
But does it actually prevent falls or make the elderly less likely to break bones?
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by elhudy on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:20AM (#18229100)
I'm not sure, but mechanistically speaking that would make sense, wouldn't you think?
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by atomical on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:24AM (#18229127)
People thought that consuming more calcium would do the same thing.

> While there is a small effect of calcium supplementation in the upper limb, the increase in BMD which results is unlikely to result in a clinically significant decrease in fracture risk. The results do not support the use of calcium supplementation in healthy children as a public health intervention.

https://www.cochrane.org/CD005119/MUSKEL_calcium-for-improvi...

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by dota_fanatic on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @09:44AM (#18229289)
By that same logic, should consuming lots and lots of protein yield bigger, stronger muscles?

Or perhaps in both cases, the body must experience stimulus such that the tissues "know" they need to get at the necessary supplies coming in.

Why build muscles, or stronger bones, if the body overall never does anything to need them? It would be wasted motion from their point of view.

Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by madeuptempacct on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @01:12PM (#18231135)
Anecdotal and will get downvoted, but I have WAY more energy when I eat sugar. And yes, I have cut sugar for up to a month at a time before. I never got the magical increases in energy people talk about.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by ianai on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @01:20PM (#18231210)
I run circles around the meat eaters in my life. My latest change was replacing maple syrup with date sugar. I also started drinking matcha often. The change to a Whole Foods sugar made all the difference in the stability of my energy levels. Matcha also makes the caffeine buzz a lot more steady, manageable, and even calm. Changing out processed foods for Whole Foods might outweigh the carb/fat/protein differences. There’s still a lot to biology and nutrition we don’t know, in my first hand experience.
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by tozeur on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @03:23PM (#18232364)
I really don’t see how a Whole Foods sugar has any different effect compared “normal” sugar...
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by mopierotti on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @06:01PM (#18233676)
This site claims that different sugars have different glycemic indexes. E.g palm sugar (from date trees) at 35 and brown sugar at 65. https://www.eatthis.com/sweeteners/
Re:How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain by ianai on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @11:48PM (#18235984)
The way my doctor put it: science likes to think “a molecule is a molecule” and it’s possible to isolate out the benefits of a food in individual extracts. But that’s been shown to fall short of reality over time. Nutrition is still a largely misunderstood system. Sticking with Whole Foods (bad autocorrect) should be more predictable/reproducible.