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Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by the_snooze on Friday October 27, 2023 @09:45AM (#38038358)
>And yes, on the surface this incentivizes people to create better content. The better your content is, the more it gets seen, and the more money you make. And yet, my felt experience of this change is the exact opposite—as people seek more engagement, their content gets worse. What’s going on here?

It always tickles me when terminally online people realize that human connection doesn't scale. It's valuable precisely because it takes a lot of time, energy, and luck to establish. You want authenticity? Go find community in meatspace. You want authenticity online? Talk to those meatspace friends in private group chats.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by kogus on Friday October 27, 2023 @10:05AM (#38038566)
I agree 100% with what you are saying, but I don't think you need a human connection to have good content. The encyclopedia Brittanica didn't establish a human connection, but it was a valuable resource. An ugly problem with an attention economy is that you are rewarded for seeming useful and interesting, but once the attention has been given, there is no incentive to actually deliver. So we get clickbait headlines and veneer-grade content because that's enough to get the ad dollars, without the investment that original content would require.

To be fair, most web users are happy with the arrangement - they get an endless feed of free tiny doses of dopamine while they avoid the real responsibilities of life. The large-scale effect is decidedly negative, though.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by Retric on Friday October 27, 2023 @10:33AM (#38038961)
Reputation is still valuable over time. Some YouTube creators I ignore irregardless of the thumbnail, while other content creators get a click automatically. The same happens with websites and everywhere else in the attention economy.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by visarga on Friday October 27, 2023 @10:40AM (#38039085)
I was going to say the same thing. Regular content is like tourist shops - they will price gauge and deliver subpar merch because they know you won't return, their action will be consequence free. A shop with returning customers can't afford to do that especially if there is competition.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by oangemangut on Friday October 27, 2023 @10:38AM (#38039043)
some content creators I click on _despite_ them having to do the click-bait stupid YouTube thumbnails.

As an aside - word you may have been looking for is irrespective, or perhaps just plain old regardless. irregardless is not a word.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by function_seven on Friday October 27, 2023 @10:59AM (#38039348)
> irregardless is not a word.

Lots of dictionaries disagree. But not me! I'll join you on this hill, regardless of what those dumb dictionaries say.

The misuse of "literally" and the common use of "irregardless" are the red pills that have turned me into a crotchety old ... prescriptivist.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by narcraft on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:29AM (#38039799)
People say that people use literally to mean figuratively now which is literally the opposite of literally, but I've literally never seen someone use literally to mean figuratively. I have often seen it used to hyperbolize the strength of analogies or generalizations, which means they apply literally somewhat figuratively, but that doesn't mean that they literally mean for literally to mean figuratively.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by TeMPOraL on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:45AM (#38040046)
Literally is literally a point. Figuratively is a point only figuratively, literally it is a continuum. If you're not using literally to literally mean literally, you are literally using it to mean figuratively.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by marcosdumay on Friday October 27, 2023 @01:13PM (#38041145)
People are just not literally-absolutists. They believe literally exists in a continuum.

That means they disagree with you on the definition of the word, but it doesn't make it a synonym of figuratively.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by dragonwriter on Friday October 27, 2023 @06:14PM (#38044688)
No, if you aren't using it to mean literally, you are using it figuratively, but not necessarily (or ever, IME) to mean figuratively (usually as an intensifier to a statement that is expected to be understood as figurative from context.)
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by DrammBA on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:47AM (#38040062)
> I'm literally dead right now

Is that figurative speech?

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by falsaberN1 on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:22PM (#38040546)
Yes. Definitely.

If I say "I literally broke my arm" after I actually broke my arm, that use is completely correct. But you cannot be literally dead and still type a message, unless it's an automated message that you ordered someone/something to send AFTER you died.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by function_seven on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:44PM (#38040786)
If I'm on my regular nightly haunting mission, and I decide to speak to the new owner of the house that I'm haunting, how do I convey to them that I am really, actually, truly dead? I could say, "I'm literally dead", but they would think I'm laughing at their joke they just made!

If the answer to this is to avoid the word "literally", and instead replace it with "really, actually, truly" (like I did above), then I might just decide to retire from haunting.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by falsaberN1 on Friday October 27, 2023 @06:10PM (#38044653)
You obtain "literally dead" privileges if you are a ghost, too, of course.

OMG A GOAST SO SPOOKY

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by dllthomas on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:10PM (#38046735)
Of course.

Would you be less likely to interpret it as such if the speaker has omitted "literally"?

I would say that that is an example of hyperbole. "I am so figuratively dead right now it's as if I am literally dead." The meaning of literally, there, remains intact.

In the same way, when someone complains that you left them waiting for "days" we don't say "sometimes days means ten minutes" but that sometimes people exaggerate.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by compiler-guy on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:00PM (#38040243)
Linguists call this usage, “the emphatic literally” and the best writers of the past 300 years have used it.

So if it’s good enough for Charlotte Brontë, Jane Austen, Mark Twain, Charles Dickens, William Thackeray, Vladimir Nabokov, and David Foster Wallace, then it’s good enough for me. Literally.

https://www.thecut.com/2018/01/the-300-year-history-of-using...

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by JohnFen on Friday October 27, 2023 @03:56PM (#38043149)
I wouldn't mind that use of the word if there were a different word available that meant "literally literally".
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by Retric on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:34AM (#38039877)
It’s been in common use for well over 100 years before you where born.

There’s beating a dead horse, and there’s railing about the injustice of it all in the shadow of a great oak growing over the horses grave.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by PH95VuimJjqBqy on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:47PM (#38040821)
oh snap, I love that analogy.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by JohnFen on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:17PM (#38040485)
> irregardless is not a word.

"Irregardless" is absolutely a word. It's not a word I personally like, but there's no denying its status.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by function_seven on Friday October 27, 2023 @10:57AM (#38039316)
> while other content creators get a click automatically.

A number of times now Youtube has shown me a video recommendation that I ignored for days. The thumbnail with that stupid "gobsmacked" expression of the creator (:-O) with some dumb headline in big block letters ("IS GRAVITY A LIE?"). You know what I'm talking about.

Then I finally get around to looking at it closer, and it turns out it's one of my favorite channels with an awesome video! They went with the stupid title and thumbnail because "the algorithm demands it". The actual video itself is great.

These creators get an automatic click from me as well, except when I'm mislead by the thumnail and title into not even realizing it's one of them. Then it takes time for me to discover it. There's been a couple of times where the video I'm mentally spam-filtering appears on the HN front page, and it turns out to be a great video. But had I not seen it here, I would never have clicked on it.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by _jal on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:17PM (#38040480)
> They went with the stupid title and thumbnail because "the algorithm demands it"

The end result is I don't use their discovery crap at all, because it all looks like garbage I don't care about.

My use of Youtube has become very similar to my use of Xitter - never log in, almost never look at content on their domains, only on other peoples' sites.

I'm sure it works for them on average.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by bee_rider on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:40PM (#38040729)
I do not understand the gobsmacked face thing. It has been going on for years. There’s no way Google doesn’t know about it. I guess we should assume they… want it that way?
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by xethos on Friday October 27, 2023 @01:18PM (#38041208)
Why would elgooG give a gosh-darn about the amazed facial expression of some of their most popular creators? I assume they care about their metrics, and this drives engagement, especially with younger viewers. And because younger viewers have the most time, that in turn drives hours of YouTube watched, ads viewed, and on and on.

We can assume the metrics, we can see the results, and both seem to line up.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by tiznow on Friday October 27, 2023 @01:25PM (#38041306)
Thumbnails with the creator's face are proven to attract more views. The stupid expression seems to enhance that effect.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by PH95VuimJjqBqy on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:46PM (#38040804)
I have a tendency to ignore anything with strong wording as I know I can't trust the intentions of the author.

When you DO click on them they're almost always the most mundane things imaginable.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by adventurer on Friday October 27, 2023 @01:07PM (#38041070)
The Mr. Beast thumbnail O face because everything you post has to be something you HAVE to click on.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by losteric on Friday October 27, 2023 @10:55AM (#38039303)
> An ugly problem with an attention economy is that you are rewarded for seeming useful and interesting, but once the attention has been given, there is no incentive to actually deliver

> To be fair, most web users are happy with the arrangement - they get an endless feed of free tiny doses of dopamine while they avoid the real responsibilities of life.

I'd argue it's mostly the latter. Most creators produce content to make money, catering to demand.

Ancient Aliens BS, TikTok reaction videos, blatant staged animal rescues, celebrity drama... this is what the general populace regards as interesting and useful. These are all genuinely popular and sought-after content.

It is a dopamine trap. People want to feel good knowing something special, feel a shared emotional bond, feel the world has good, or that they are almost a socialite... and they'll fight tooth and nail if that perception is challenged.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by passion__desire on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:35AM (#38039892)
I think we are missing one important point. Communities acclaimatize to ground realities, though it takes time.

In my early experience of social media, people were criticized for not writing correct English. That is almost gone. Infact, now people realize that people belonging to different backgrounds can't be expected to perform in one particular context. There is reverse sort of meme, where non-natives are celebrated for writing perfect English. Similarly, there was debate on how to actually spell Quran or Koran etc. Now people understand the intention behind the words rather than actual grammer or spelling. It takes time for higher level of ideas to percolate social media.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by Exoristos on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:40PM (#38040736)
*grammar
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by passion__desire on Friday October 27, 2023 @01:00PM (#38040995)
There was a question asked on Quora by a child to her mother, "Why haven't we used all the short words and gave them meaning before using all the long words?"

The simple answer, apart from historical origins of words is "error correction". It is far easier to error correct words which are far apart in spelling and audio space.

relevant : https://youtu.be/AZX6awZq5Z0?t=3107

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by thrwwyunpopular on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:13AM (#38039558)
The harsh reality is that any conversation about what "people" want needs to factor in the fact that half of "the people" are dumber, more simpler-minded than the average person.

No, you and I don't want to look at staged animal rescues or celebrity drama... but if the average person does, then so does at least 50% of the population. We're in the minority.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by TeMPOraL on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:41AM (#38039985)
Yes, but also let's cut people some slack: most people on either side of IQ 100 are spending all their energy at work, and between the job, commute, preparing food, spending time with kids, etc. they only have enough energy to crawl into bed and start the grind again the next day. With that in mind, the popularity of low-effort, high-dopamine entertainment doesn't necessarily imply that most people are simple-minded and just like this - the alternative hypothesis is that they just don't have time and energy for any more complex, richer ways of spending their time.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by tomjakubowski on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:51AM (#38040124)
some of the most brilliant people I know apparently get stuck in these dopamine loops too. not everything is a matter of intelligence
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by feoren on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:56AM (#38040186)
> half of "the people" are dumber, more simpler-minded than the average person.

Spiders Georg would like a word with you. And 99.99% of people have more than the average number of legs. And "the average person" is not something you can actually imagine. Think about "the average driver". You're actually thinking of an asshole driver, because asshole drivers are more salient. You don't notice "the average driver".

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by huevosabio on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:15AM (#38039585)
I think this is true in the individual level, but less so in the ecosystem as a whole.

I can see how a YouTube channel gets attention-optimized to hell, but then I am able to find content that is genuinely amazing that have survived the temptation to over-optimize for engagement.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by pixl97 on Friday October 27, 2023 @01:06PM (#38041053)
At the end of the day I assume this comes down to means of monetization. If someone has some other means of making a living that is not directly tied into the social media platform itself, for example they are independently wealthy, then it's easy for them to create non-over-optimized content.

A common breaking point for creators is the ones where they have job X that makes a decent living, but their content starts getting popular and starts making a decent living. That's where the creator starts running into the 2 masters problem. Do they quit their job and make content only? If they do, will the platform decide to completely screw them over with an algorithm change?

Then you have a 3rd class that is just jumping into content for the purpose of making money by any means possible. All aboard the over-optimization train.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by jfengel on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:20AM (#38039647)
The weird part to me is that the ad dollars have to lead to some sort of connection. The ad buyers need you to want something.

Sure, some of it is just scams and politics (yeah yeah the jokes write themselves). But at core there are people who have an actual thing to sell, and people who want to buy things. It may not make them happy in the end but that's up to each of us to figure out for ourselves, and the philosophers.

Somewhere under all that attention is a service or a product. In the end we've got to learn which ones matter to us. That's what the attention is supposed to be for.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by JohnFen on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:19PM (#38040506)
> In the end we've got to learn which ones matter to us.

Not all content is intended to sell a product or service. The really great stuff is not.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by csallen on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:29AM (#38039800)
None of this is really new. People have sought low-quality high-dopamine content since television was the main medium. Since the spread of radio. Since the development of novels. Probably the beginning of the printing press, writing, or hell, storytelling and spoken language itself.

Each new medium provides more power to dive into this, and each generation panics that we've crossed a never-before-crossed line. And they're correct.

But the problem lies within us as humans. This lightweight diversionary content is just what the majority of us want.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by bernardlunn on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:37AM (#38039933)
True except now AI robots create low quality content without any qualms
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by photonthug on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:00PM (#38040242)
"True except now the printing press means trash novels devoid of real artistry can be pumped out without additional effort from the original author." Parents point is that the newness you highlight also isn't new either, strictly speaking. It's all a matter of scale as the effort approaches zero
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by pixl97 on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:57PM (#38040954)
Scale matters. "No single snowflake blames itself on the avalanche" is a saying for a reason. Little things that seemingly don't matter can built up to the point they become a deadly maelstrom.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by Enginerrrd on Friday October 27, 2023 @10:15AM (#38038709)
I think the ugly truth of it is, just like there's a noticeable difference between shopping at costco and shopping at walmart (because of the annual fee at costco), there's just some people that are going to have an undesirable influence on your community.

The temptation to try and rope in those extra users is often irresistible but to get them you have to tank your content to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Very few growth minded companies or content creators have escaped that trap. It requires prioritizing your principles and long-term outlook over short-term growth which is so antithetical to the typical silicon valley situation trying to tap into and keep the spigot of VC money.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by pif on Friday October 27, 2023 @10:38AM (#38039041)
> difference between shopping at costco and shopping at walmart

Could someone please explain to me what is implied here? I've been to the USA only once, and I didn't visit neither a Costco nor a Walmart. The only difference I could point to between them, is that no "Costco people" phenomenon exists on YouTube.

Sincere thanks in advance!

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by Nuthen on Friday October 27, 2023 @10:48AM (#38039188)
Costco requires a yearly membership, so I think they are implying that the incentive is different. Costco has a strong incentive for you to leave with a decent time there, and feeling like you got a good deal (mostly through buying items in bulk) so you'll continue to renew your membership year after year.

At Walmart they might organize the store to get you to buy candy at the checkout line, or have a lot of less-than-healty options to tempt you near the essentials, to maximize the profit in that way. Because you're not shopping at Walmart because you want to be.

Disclaimer: I haven't been to Costco at a long time. And they still try to get you in their own way with free samples you can find all over the store.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by jtr1 on Friday October 27, 2023 @10:49AM (#38039201)
They are implying that Costco's yearly membership fee filters out poor people, who shop at Walmart instead. They consider these people to be undesirable customers because people with money do not like to associate with them.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by jjoonathan on Friday October 27, 2023 @10:52AM (#38039261)
It's not the fee so much as the focus on bulk that selects for big fridges/pantries/houses/cars/families.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by hotnfresh on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:08PM (#38040351)
Costco shopper here who likes shopping at Dollar General and Aldi. Hell, even Dollar Tree and such.

It's not just that they're poor. There's something about wal mart.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by goostavos on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:41PM (#38040747)
I blame it's cold, sterile lighting. I don't know why, but something about Walmart's lights make it feel clinical. More like a laboratory simulating a grocery store and running experiments on the masses. Thus the walmart people (they're plants, obviously)
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by jjoonathan on Friday October 27, 2023 @10:49AM (#38039203)
Costco rich, Walmart poor.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by TehShrike on Friday October 27, 2023 @10:52AM (#38039253)
If there's a stereotype of costco customers, it's probably "middle-aged dads stoked about the fact that they can get a deal on good bulk food and quality products like socks".

(https://www.costco.com/kirkland-signature-men's-merino-wool-... btw)

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by willismichael on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:07PM (#38040340)
Guilty as charged.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by ToucanLoucan on Friday October 27, 2023 @10:58AM (#38039339)
One of your replies got some of it but I think it misses some other factors so I'll take a swing:

Costco requires a yearly membership to shop there, which along with the shopping (if you go for the more expensive membership anyway) also gives you yearly cash back on all your purchases, which if you go there for the essentials you can, really does add up quite a bit. My wife and I get basically everything we can from there and usually end up with about $250 of essentially free money per year, and despite being Costco cash, if you go there and don't spend it all, you just get cash in return. Clearly they want you to use it there, but it is required.

Additionally there's an element of curation, though this is more subjective. Walmart will sell anything they can get their hands on, and Costco by comparison has a reputation for selling not exactly the top end bespoke stuff, but at least good stuff. I can recall maybe 2 times in the entire time I've shopped there for the last 6 years or so that I've gotten something I was disappointed in the quality of.

In addition you have the other things like the free samples everywhere, there's much less impulse buying on offer, it just feels... I don't know, you just feel like they actually give a shit? Maybe not a huge shit but a shit and finding businesses that give even a microscopic shit is pretty hard these days. And along with that, they pay their employees extremely well (in the context of retail anyway).

And also like, it's a bit classist for sure, but I do enjoy that there are no "people of Walmart" there, for the same reason I go to Target instead of Walmart for whatever I can't get at Costco. It seems at times Target's entire business model is knowing people who can will pay about 11% more for everything so they can not go to Walmart, I certainly do and will continue to.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by Kye on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:18AM (#38039621)
Walmarts are full of broke, burnt out people clinging to survival, so it's like bumper cars with buggies due to already stretched attention spans. If you can afford Costco and have a place to put the bulk savings, you're probably a little better off and less harried.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by goostavos on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:44PM (#38040776)
"less harried" is not how I'd describe Costco. Just getting into and out of the one in Seattle is like visiting a theme park. Once you manage to find parking, you give up your personhood. You're now just part of the slowly moving mob with carts.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by Kye on Friday October 27, 2023 @01:30PM (#38041387)
>> "slowly moving mob with carts"

I was not exaggerating or embellishing about the bumper cart bit. People either come flying out of aisles without looking or they stand there blocking an aisle while ignoring you trying to get through. A slow-moving mob would be an improvement in every way.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by pixl97 on Friday October 27, 2023 @04:03PM (#38043234)
This very much depends on the stores location. When I lived close to a Costco in one of the fastest growing towns in the US it was like you described. Now that I live in a slightly faster growing city it's not so much of a menagerie and just more of an event.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by hotnfresh on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:06PM (#38040334)
Walmart shoppers are uniquely incapable of existing in an area without being in the way. I've not experienced anything like it in any other store. It's like they're constantly trying to take up as much space as possible.

Between that and Walmart having narrower aisles than most stores, the place feels busy even when there aren't many people in it.

Also, the workers and shoppers alike all seem depressed, which is another thing I've not experienced in any other store. Walmart's weird, sickly lighting and color scheme probably don't help.

It's a miserable place to be in. Mood instantly plummets on entering. Combo of the seemingly intended-to-make-you-feel-bad design, and the people.

It's not even just a poor-people thing. Aldi is fine. Dollar General isn't as depressing. Plus, wal mart didn't used to be so bad, but that was like 20 years ago.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by cmrx64 on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:33PM (#38040644)
Dollar General, universally understaffed, often with random shit stacked up in aisles, quite often just a single soul running the shop, is usually pretty depressing for me.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by hotnfresh on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:36PM (#38040686)
This is all true, yet doesn't bother me like Wal Mart does.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by PH95VuimJjqBqy on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:56PM (#38040935)
> Between that and Walmart having narrower aisles than most stores, the place feels busy even when there aren't many people in it.

It's not just the stores, the parking lots are like that too. I won't refuse to go to wal-mart, but unless I'm lazy or it's an emergency, I will absolutely drive by one to shop at Target, Best Buy, etc.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by PH95VuimJjqBqy on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:54PM (#38040923)
I think most of the other posters are missing it.

Walmart is known for having ... characters in its stores. Think severely obese woman wearing a bikini. Walmart will let anyone in and anyone includes some wild people because wild people exist.

Costco requires a yearly membership and a contract. If you come sauntering in wearing assless chaps you're likely to get kicked out, your contract revoked, and being unable to ever shop there again.

The comparison being made was trying for a specific audience and excluding those outside of that audience (Costco) vs trying to appeal to as large an audience as possible, which means accepting things that most people wouldn't otherwise accept (Walmart).

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by chinchilla2020 on Friday October 27, 2023 @01:04PM (#38041038)
Walmart tends to be the lower class. Lots of weird people there.

Costco is typically middle class. It is a members-only.

They also have a famous hot dog and food court

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by 0x4d464d48 on Friday October 27, 2023 @01:18PM (#38041203)
25 principles often given up by content creators in order to pursue an audienece.

You won't believe number 7!

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by antupis on Friday October 27, 2023 @10:30AM (#38038942)
I think it is more about if you want go after general market you need to be bland that is why regular cars and clothes from HM look a same or biggest fast food chains menus look somewhat same.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by j45 on Friday October 27, 2023 @09:56AM (#38038460)
To me there’s a difference between better content and engaging content.

Better content seeks quality connections that may scale so far.

Engaging content seeks quantity of connections.

Of course this could be further argued. Maybe the better and engagement is interpreted to mean too distribution in quantity focused.

Edit:typo

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by coffeebeqn on Friday October 27, 2023 @10:10AM (#38038647)
Everyone is getting paid by the number of impressions - not the quality of them. With incentives like this..
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by j45 on Friday October 27, 2023 @10:21AM (#38038802)
Depending on the platform it can be other things too.

View time, remaining on platform, etc.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by nullindividual on Friday October 27, 2023 @10:32AM (#38038953)
What [ad] platform pays on anything but clicks?
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by Kye on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:36AM (#38039922)
There's CPM (cost per mille [thousand]) and CPA (cost per action) too.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by j45 on Saturday October 28, 2023 @05:51PM (#38053729)
Cost per conversion is another one too. Technically an action too. :)
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by Kye on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:28AM (#38039789)
Blog posts remain a holdout on the relation between quality and connection count. In this link-wary modern web, every link counts.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by A4ET8a8uTh0 on Friday October 27, 2023 @10:14AM (#38038708)
There may be exceptions ( MMO guilds may be an examle ), where it is not meatspace, but authenticity may be higher.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by Fnoord on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:01AM (#38039386)
Some of those do have RL meetings, such as BlizzCon. Or they're comprised of RL friends.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by izzydata on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:09AM (#38039493)
I wonder if the newer generation of gamers can form connections from MMO style guilds like the past generation of gamers did. Everything that I've seen from young gamers today suggests that their motivations for playing games is quite different. Playing just for the sake of playing and socializing on a personal level is not part of it.

I get the impression it is about being seen doing things. If nobody sees you do something it basically never happened. The more people that see you do something the more important it is to them.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by hnreport on Friday October 27, 2023 @10:56AM (#38039310)
You win the internet for today.

human connection doesn't scale

Before they tried to figure out why certain schools were always failing (curriculum, etc), they honed in on another very simple cause. Overcrowded classrooms. Soon as you go from 18 kids per room, to 28, you’re in trouble.

The internet didn’t become any more or less of anything. It just scaled the base initial value of numofHumansInvolved to 8 billion. But’s the only thing that scaled, that number.

It’s like scaling water pipes out throughout the city without scaling filtering system also. You are still basically circulating dirty water.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by jklinger410 on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:04AM (#38039433)
> as people seek more engagement, their content gets worse. What’s going on here?

This is a well observed trend where appealing to a broader audience makes the content worse.

People, as individuals, are unique and therefore interesting. Appealing to more than one person relies on what those people have in common.

The more people you try to reach, the less in common they all have. If the content is going to speak to what they all have in common, it becomes very surface level.

Therefore all things that want to get mass approval must be very basic, vague, and shallow. This is the capitalist way of creating content.

Conversely, when real artists struck chords with large groups of people, it was because they stumbled upon something unique that many people shared. This unique thing was then valued by large groups of people, and became culture.

Real culture is hard, not reproducible, not predictable, and initially unprofitable. So it is not valued by capitalism. It happens despite the economy, not because of it.

Art must always start that way, or else it is simply content.

//EDIT

I also want to add that this is not a new thing and it's root cause is not social media. It is any media that is shared, whose goal is a large number of eyeballs. This has happened with every medium and will continue to happen forever.

If you don't like it and want it to stop, then you want more socialist policies.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by ragazzina on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:33AM (#38039874)
I am very interested in your take. When Michelangelo sculpted the Pietà, the pain it expressed was a feeling that many people had shared, so it became culture.

But when a teenager makes a tiktok about the pain of being rejected by their crush, and it's a feeling many people have shared, and many people like it, that's basic, vague and shallow.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by TeMPOraL on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:54AM (#38040169)
What makes the tiktok vague and shallow isn't the topic itself, but the awareness that there's already a hundred thousand identical tiktoks expressing the same or similar feelings in roughly the same way.

What makes it "not culture" is that everyone is watching one or few of those hundred thousand fully exchangeable tiktoks.

A thing which is basic, vague and shallow can become an important cultural work too - it just must become known to approximately everyone in a society. It must somehow become the one representative work in its class, so that when someone makes a reference, everyone knows exactly which work is being talked about, and that everyone else knows it too. Being unique is not strictly necessary, but is highly helpful.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by monknomo on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:07PM (#38040337)
There are an awful lot of sculptures/paintings, etc. about the sixth sorrow of mary, and most are pretty interchangeable, imo.

I wonder if the difference with tiktok is that there are thousands of videos about the same thing, everyone sees a few of those thousands, but they see a different few. So even though we're sharing the feeling, culturally, we're not sharing the same artifact.

Like maybe the trouble is that tiktok puts each user into their own custom bubble, and the bubble the user finds themself in is completely opaque - you can't readily compare what you're seeing to what your friends are seeing?

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by TeMPOraL on Friday October 27, 2023 @01:00PM (#38041000)
Yeah, this shared artifact - aka "social object" - is the key. It's why the Internet culture is defined by things that "went viral" - because those are the ones everyone saw, and everyone can expect everyone else saw them too.

As for the sculptures and paintings of Mary, etc., I'd say they are all boring and entirely interchangeable, but that's because I have no connection to any of them. Each such work is meaningful to the community that had a personal connection. But I'd say none of them are culturally important, except those individual ones that for some reason (like being very old) become widely known among people outside artifact-adjacent community.

Side point: culture always has a scope. Something may be important cultural object for the city I live in, unremarkable for anyone else in my country, and entirely unknown the rest of the world. With the Internet enabling arts and entertainment on demand, there is little overlap between communities we live in and the entertainment choices of individual community members. We end up having communities with no culture.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by jklinger410 on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:31PM (#38040624)
> When Michelangelo sculpted the Pietà, the pain it expressed was a feeling that many people had shared, so it became culture.

So, first, any art that is funded by the church or a patron is not really in this conversation. The entire economics of that art is outside of the eyeball conversation.

If art that is pre-funded strikes a chord with people, it is the same thing as I said about artists in the past. Like Coltraine or Hendrix, they expressed something unique or personal that it was discovered that all people shared, and it therefore became culture.

There are mounds upon mounds of crappy pre-funded religious art that impacted no-one whatsoever. So Pietra is precisely the opposite of pop art, although that is what it became. Which is what makes it culture.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by pixl97 on Friday October 27, 2023 @04:11PM (#38043321)
How many times can a joke be told before it gets worn out?

How many times have you seen an 'old tired' joke that's been told by an expert storyteller and it's funny yet again?

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by robertlagrant on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:21AM (#38039653)
> Real culture is hard, not reproducible, not predictable, and initially unprofitable. So it is not valued by capitalism. It happens despite the economy, not because of it.

Capitalism is just people making agreements with each other in a legal framework. It 100% does not preclude charitable work, volunteerism, or art. It also doesn't value anything; it's a system where, as much as possible, people can do what they want and pay for things they deem to be valuable.

> If you don't like it and want it to stop, then you want more socialist policies.

This is true. Pain creates wonderful art.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by jihiggins on Friday October 27, 2023 @01:06PM (#38041055)
i would argue that capitalism implicitly values... capital?

just as socialism values... society

also, you're conflating markets with capitalism

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by robertlagrant on Friday October 27, 2023 @03:20PM (#38042714)
Come on. Arguing from names is really silly.

I'd say almost everything but capitalism values authoritarianism. E.g. socialism in the end by "society" means "the state".

Society in capitalism is generally separate to markets, e.g. your local community, or charirites, or churches, or sport, or schools. Not bureaucrats taking your effort and doling it out (or not) as they see fit.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by badpun on Friday October 27, 2023 @03:52PM (#38043105)
In capitalism's case, the name is really informative. At the heart of capitalism lies capital and the ability to invest it, which gives people who own it power to get stuff without doing any work. People without the capital do work for people with capital, so that the may survive (and do more work).
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by robertlagrant on Friday October 27, 2023 @07:27PM (#38045281)
The problem is that direct work is not the only way to contribute, which is why Marx's definition of things is too narrow. Taking risk is also something valuable to reward. As is having the right connections. One or more of these things together make value that a company that can then sell to people who want it. Deciding that risking capital is worth nothing is an incomplete view.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by jodrellblank on Friday October 27, 2023 @04:10PM (#38043301)
> "Society in capitalism is generally separate to markets, e.g. your local community, or charirites, or churches, or sport, or schools"

Are you saying that sports are not profitable in America? That schools and colleges in America are not run for profit? That churches and charities are not formed primarily for financial/tax benefits? Or that people can't play non-profit basketball in their local park under socialism? Or that capitalism hasn't done a work on the 'local community' by replacing third-places with places that require you to spend money to hang out, for example?

> "Not bureaucrats taking your effort and doling it out (or not) as they see fit."

This is exactly what my employer does? They take value I add, and dole it out (or not) as they see fit.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by robertlagrant on Friday October 27, 2023 @07:25PM (#38045251)
> Are you saying that sports are not profitable in America? That schools and colleges in America are not run for profit? That churches and charities are not formed primarily for financial/tax benefits? Or that people can't play non-profit basketball in their local park under socialism? Or that capitalism hasn't done a work on the 'local community' by replacing third-places with places that require you to spend money to hang out, for example?

That's correct; I'm not saying those things.

> This is exactly what my employer does? They take value I add, and dole it out (or not) as they see fit.

How does your employer dole out your effort?

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by jodrellblank on Friday October 27, 2023 @08:08PM (#38045551)
> "That's correct; I'm not saying those things."

Then your claim "Society in capitalism is generally separate to markets, e.g. your local community, or charirites, or churches, or sport, or schools." has fallen over. Those things are taken over by capitalism-slash-markets because there is profit to be made, above all other concerns (e.g. the health of football players / brain trauma, the constant advertising, the promotion of players to celebtrities and the association of product with celebrity, etc. etc. These things are community-destroying but profit-making.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by robertlagrant on Saturday October 28, 2023 @08:09AM (#38049201)
This seems highly incomplete. Millions of people play football amongst themselves. Only looking at professional footballers, who even then are voluntarily playing football as probably by far their best option in life, is completely distortionary.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by robertlagrant on Saturday October 28, 2023 @10:01AM (#38049876)
This seems highly incomplete. Millions of people play football amongst themselves. Only looking at professional footballers is just the apex fallacy. The fact that a few people are paid to play doesn't negate that cultural reality.

Even then they are voluntarily playing football as probably by far their best option in life. Paid for by hundreds of millions of people who want to watch the best football possible, and will pay for it.

Finally, people choosing to pay for things isn't capitalism taking over culture. Everything about football requires money: paying for a football to go for a kickaout isn't hideous commercialism.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by pixl97 on Friday October 27, 2023 @04:17PM (#38043362)
You seem to be conflating "systems values" versus "People in the systems values"

Capitalism works best with a non-authoritarian government, but that leaves a lot of different options for implementing how that is handled.

Individual capitalists will almost always push for some of authoritarianism as they become more successful because they will seek to minimize competition.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by robertlagrant on Friday October 27, 2023 @06:23PM (#38044776)
> You seem to be conflating "systems values" versus "People in the systems values"

How so?

> Individual capitalists will almost always push for some of authoritarianism

Lots will push the other way, because that keeps the engine running smoothly. This is sometimes called "people thinking they're temporarily embarrassed millionaires", but really it's "people knowing the best way (on average) to invent a better future".

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by 6LLvveMx2koXfwn on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:57AM (#38040203)
Interestingly this is the exact opposite of the usual argument as to why Shakespeare is still popular, i.e. that his work speaks of a deep universal truth about the human condition.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by photonthug on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:12PM (#38040409)
> Conversely, when real artists struck chords with large groups of people, it was because they stumbled upon something unique that many people shared.

Shakespeare has exactly this going on too, though. He contributed like a thousand neologisms to English that actually stuck. That probably doesn't happen unless your art is a bit like science, almost "discovering" something in the collective unconcious rather than an act of invention. When that happens, you have something that's new/unique but also something that is deep/universal. Cubism and surrealism are also like this

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by Root_Denied on Friday October 27, 2023 @02:01PM (#38041791)
There's an argument that Shakespeare didn't coin (all or some of) those phrases or words, that they were in common everyday use at the time but never written down because the type of people who used them couldn't write.

That would still be valuable in disseminating those neologisms further and giving them staying power, but it's less discovery and more documenting.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by k1ns on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:09AM (#38039488)
I think it's less to do with the internet and more to do with celebrity. Magazines push relatability and authenticity for a reason. We have to feel like they're relatable or their influence dissipates.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by skmurphy on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:23AM (#38039693)
"Human connection does not scale" is succinctly expressed insight. You identify the follow on implications and what can be done to preserve it. Thank you.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by sebastos on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:25AM (#38039731)
Authenticity online USED to come somewhat naturally by virtue of just... starting communities. The reason was that the web was small, and discovery process was more random - that is, less systematic. As a consequence, you almost couldn't help but start forums or blogs or content platforms with hundreds to low thousands of participants. And because those communities were smaller, you were that much more engaged. You recognized the names of the people posting, and understood their brand. So online authenticity used to exist without having to merely import meatspace directly.

But the interesting thing is that there's still nothing that makes it fundamentally impossible to start a relatively small forum nowadays. And there are plenty of those small communities that still exist! And yet... somehow, that's just not good enough, is it? We are all still constantly complaining about the attention economy and the performative nature of online communication. So what gives?

To me, what this says is that it's not good enough for small-band, high authenticity communication to exist. It also needs to be true that broadband, inauthentic communication NOT exist. The simple truth, I think, is that it annoys us when things we don't like manage to capture lots of attention. When you see something you disagree with gathering momentum, it _grates_. There is something fundamental about that; "get over it" isn't going to solve this.

You saw this happen with Reddit: slowly, the most popular subreddits became bigger and bigger cesspits. People always suggested that the way around this was to just ignore the popular stuff and find smaller subreddits to enjoy. But it just never resonated with people as a solution. Ignoring the popular subreddits as a lost cause feels like putting your head in the sand. Don't bother trying to explain to me that you can't fix discourse all by yourself, or that there's no sense in sweating what the front page of reddit looks like. You're not arguing with me! You're arguing with the millions of people's inner id, who see that front page and twitch a little bit.

I think this might speak to some human need to assert our own view of the world and reject untruths that we've already ourselves debunked. When you see somebody pronouncing an old thing you _used_ to believe, your impulse is to warn that person "oh no, I can see why you'd think that, but it's actually more complicated than that for reasons x, y and z." But imagine that you see somebody drowning in falsity and before you can reach them to disabuse them of their misapprehension, thousands and thousands of people crowd around them, agreeing and cheering! And then, before you can push through the crowd and take the podium, they all disperse into the void. You can't call them all back and explain that they just walked away with the wrong information... they're just.. gone. Gone, carrying the virus of bad ideas out into the aether, now sure to awaken somewhere else, like wack-a-mole. Something about human nature finds this situation insufferable. But the twittersphere is perfectly designed to make it _the only way we communicate_!

To bring it home, I think our need to right wrongs is what doesn't scale. We can't all convince everybody of our own world view, but globally networked, systematically visible communication baits us into doing exactly that. Once pandora's box is opened, we can't ignore the temptation to participate, nor can we ignore the constant insult of participating.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by pixl97 on Friday October 27, 2023 @04:24PM (#38043450)
>But the interesting thing is that there's still nothing that makes it fundamentally impossible to start a relatively small forum nowadays.

I would disagree. There are a few things that make it exceedingly difficult (though not impossible)

1. Other platforms breathing up all the air in the room. No one's going to be giving your attention if they are being rage baited on twatter all day.

2. DDOS, and attack tools make it easy to blast your site totally off the internet the first time a troll gets pissed at you for one reason or another. You'll end up having to be behind CloudFlare or paying for some service to even exist.

3. If your site does gain the smallest amount of popularity the spammers and the bots will come, and you will spend a lot of time and effort to get rid of it. Eventually you are a worn out husk of a human being as you spend more and more time, money, and effort figuring out what is and isn't authentic on your forum.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by kraig911 on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:31AM (#38039833)
All i can say to this comment is 'lol meat space' I think we should use this principle in more places than talking about twitter. There's just so much nuance of people interacting we take for granted.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by aeturnum on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:50AM (#38040109)
Human connection doesn't scale! But authenticity isn't connection. You do not need to connect with someone to see their authenticity.

I think the original sin of Elon-Twitter is mistaking popularity for authenticity - because by definition authenticity isn't universally recognizable. It's how authentic experience is unexpected, arbitrary, incomplete and often contradictory. People being authentic in a world you're not familiar with looks like...nothing? Often? When The Bear came out it showed the characters drinking out of plastic 'to-go' containers because there's no glass allowed in most commercial kitchens[1]. It had the smell of authenticity - but you wouldn't see it if you didn't know what was authentic already.

Authenticity is just not a "universally recognizable" thing. At the 'whole system' level, if you want to promote it, you should be afraid of nearly universally loved content. That content is usually too 'cooked' to really be authentic. You want the less complete stuff.

[1] https://twitter.com/dillllllo/status/1557562291801006081

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by Kye on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:59AM (#38040226)
This is something I've noticed with documentaries on the furry community. Outsider documentaries always focus on the fursuits. You almost never see someone out of one even though most furries don't own one. Pittsburgh's news outlets always do interview segments during Anthrocon, and it's always fursuiters in suit.

And then from the inside, you get stuff like The Fandom which goes into the real human stories behind the animals rather than gawking at the rarest but most visible aspect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv0QaTW3kEY

It's authentic. Someone on the outside would probably recognize the difference (someone doing just another documentary/interview vs someone pointing a camera at her own community), but might not recognize the outside view as inauthentic.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by aeturnum on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:33PM (#38040646)
This is another wonderful example!

There's an aspect of...how any complex trend will inevitably have some aspects that would appear to outsides like they were included by mistake...but insiders will assure you are essential and typical. You need insiders to guide you because, as outsiders, you can't understand.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by random3 on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:54AM (#38040162)
IMO it's bit ironic that people seek maximum diversity within a single platform without taking into account the effort to seek the diversity beyond that platform.

There are online communities beyond X and, event within X you can just choose to track select groups you follow and constantly unfollow what you don't like.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by passion__desire on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:05PM (#38040317)
I have few ideas. Why can't people create their own filter bubbles? Lists do that in some sense. How about "For You" tab but for a particular List so that recommendations expand and let me get the feel of that particular List's filter bubble. Why can't I choose to browse Twitter as it appears to a particular category of people e.g. say a mathematician or neuroscientist? Twitter is all public, there is no fear of de-anonymizing anyone if Twitter decides to implement such a feature.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by random3 on Friday October 27, 2023 @05:04PM (#38043901)
I have a similar line of thinking. However I think it applies generally and that any "broker" (e.g. Amazon) that is not explicitely on your side will be in conflict of interest. The implications are actually deep and wide.
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by hightrix on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:13PM (#38040423)
> There are online communities beyond X

As an aside, I find this phrase funny today. In the past, I would have known you are using the term 'X' to be a generic reference to online communities. Today, I don't know if you are talking specifically about twitter or just a generic online community.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by BiteCode_dev on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:15PM (#38040448)
People don't seek maximum diversity. People seek the exact diversity of a small sample of the world they tolerate.

The people that say they do are just unaware of all the diversity they reject.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by random3 on Friday October 27, 2023 @05:05PM (#38043916)
You mean you don't follow random topics you don't understand or like? :)
Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by w10-1 on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:40PM (#38040725)
fyi, I can't get used to the term me*space. I can hardly type it. It articulates a level of contempt for humanity that can only be borne of complete dissociation or deep hatred. I know that's not how it's meant, but I really, really encourage people to avoid using the term.

Strangely, I don't feel the same way when some wisdom traditions remind us that we are mortal (a bag of bones comes to mind), or in response to a number of other diminishing epithets. Weird.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by bee_rider on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:47PM (#38040812)
I read it as sort of self-deprecating, a sort of acknowledgment that the speaker is so very online that they think of the physical world their body inhabits as something that explicitly needs to be called out.

I think it is quite funny and want to encourage people to use the term.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by 0x4d464d48 on Friday October 27, 2023 @01:14PM (#38041164)
I disagree. I find it humorous and endering.

Meatspace, to me, is a term that encapsulates the authenticity of being a blood and bone human being and all of the foibles that come with it. Cyberspace, at least so far as social media is concerned, is a perpetual performance where what matters is how strangers feel about you and how they feel about you is often indepedant of what you actually do in meatspace.

To me cyberspace shines with a much stronger contempt for humanity than meatspace. Meatspace simply demands you be the lump of meat that you are while cyberspace demands that you please a judgemental and often quarrelsome mob.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by PH95VuimJjqBqy on Friday October 27, 2023 @12:43PM (#38040772)
When MySpace first started getting big I remember people talking about how many friends you could have on it.

And I remember not understanding at all because these weren't friends and who the hell can handle having hundreds or thousands of friends?

I never understood MySpace and in many ways I still don't understand Facebook (I do on a rational level but not an emotional one).

I'd rather have 3-4 lifelong friends than thousands of online friends. And that doesn't mean you can't make real connections with people online, just that doing so takes years of effort just like offline friends, so doesn't scale, just like you said.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by wouldbecouldbe on Friday October 27, 2023 @01:12PM (#38041124)
Following and being a leader, with status, from a far, is also a form human connection.

Religions have already for centuries scaled that, mostly by being an idol & not getting personal. Whether that's a priest, or a Tibetan Lama, they normally don't mingle, they do this be not being "authentic" but by representing an idea or principle.

That's what a lot social media "influecners" are trying to accomplish. And what personal branding attempts to do.

Is it wanted? Probably not. But it's definitely somethng that connect to the human psyche.

Re:The Slow Death of Authenticity in an Attention Economy by akkad33 on Saturday October 28, 2023 @04:04AM (#38048081)
Do people actually say meatspace?