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Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by SOLAR_FIELDS on Saturday October 21, 2023 @09:04PM (#37971951)
It really is wild what you can do in your garage these days. Since the early 2010’s there has been a true revolution in this space that has only accelerated over the last few years. I have an injection molding machine that I built in my garage for less than $1500 USD that has a 3 cubic inch injection volume, able to make a large variety of plastic components at small production scale using a mold I printed from my $500 USD resin printer. A guy I met at the maker space has a literal pick and place and wave soldering machine in his garage and he is etching wafers on his desktop CNC. Hardware has never been more accessible.

Hardware is still really hard. But it’s definitely something someone with a software salary can bootstrap in their garage these days. Especially because I can go to JLCPCB and get some reasonably complex fully assembled prototype boards shipped to me in a week or two for $5-20 USD per unit. Ridiculously nice

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by mitthrowaway2 on Saturday October 21, 2023 @09:09PM (#37971975)
Indeed. The hardest part these days is getting access to a garage.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by chocolatelab82 on Saturday October 21, 2023 @10:08PM (#37972238)
I store a lot of crap in my garage.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by ccorcos on Saturday October 21, 2023 @11:21PM (#37972541)
I’m constantly surprised how tech folks seem to undervalue the suburbs.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by dleslie on Saturday October 21, 2023 @11:27PM (#37972570)
Most American suburbs are awful if you enjoy any sort of regular physical activity, and simply prefer to walk to the market instead of drive.

They're amazing if you love sitting in traffic.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by resonious on Sunday October 22, 2023 @12:23AM (#37972796)
Sounds like they're also good if you want a garage to tinker in!
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by trimethylpurine on Sunday October 22, 2023 @12:41AM (#37972872)
I'm in a suburb. Not an expensive one. Downtown is a 20 minute drive in light traffic. Within a 10 minute walk there are office buildings, grocery stores, shopping mall, gyms, parks, hiking and biking trails, etc. There are many cities to choose from; some are better planned than others. Based on your comment I would guess that you've opted to live in one of the "cool" cities in America.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by gautamcgoel on Sunday October 22, 2023 @01:40AM (#37973089)
Which city are you in?
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by saurik on Sunday October 22, 2023 @04:52AM (#37973865)
If we knew, we might all move there and ruin it ;P.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by CodeNest on Sunday October 22, 2023 @07:25AM (#37974444)
hahahaha :)
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by trimethylpurine on Monday October 23, 2023 @01:23AM (#37981921)
Exactly.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by xvedejas on Sunday October 22, 2023 @12:52AM (#37972914)
That you need to drive to downtown suggests you might not have much garage space after all?
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by trimethylpurine on Sunday October 22, 2023 @01:06AM (#37972977)
I have room to park six cars without using the street (I own one). Don't worry, there will be good suburbs when you too are ready to grow up.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by xvedejas on Sunday October 22, 2023 @01:17AM (#37973015)
Your comment seems unnecessarily antagonistic.

Given whatever size of garage I have, being somewhere I can live without a car gives me more garage space, regardless of whether it's a suburb. If I want to maximize garage space given my choice of a car-free lifestyle, I would probably move to a suburb with a good train station, not one where "only 20 minutes' drive to downtown" is seen as the selling point. Those are subtly different kinds of places, in my experience, where most people are going to fill their garage space with cars.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by jstanley on Sunday October 22, 2023 @01:40AM (#37973091)
You don't need to park the car in the garage you know. Park the car on the drive, keep the garage for a workshop.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by trimethylpurine on Sunday October 22, 2023 @01:32AM (#37973068)
Nah, I'm joking, hopefully not antagonizing. My point was that since you're not downtown, you can park in the street. Minutes to downtown isn't a selling point I'm making. I don't typically go downtown. I've put 10k miles on my car in 3 years. This was in response to someone saying they can't get exercise in a suburb, which I find absurd.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by akovaski on Sunday October 22, 2023 @02:57AM (#37973405)
> when you too are ready to grow up

The antagonism is from effectively calling them immature (and thus implying that their opinion is coming from a place of naivety) and placing yourself above them. This is a pretty standard insult that people use to try to be persuasive.

I suppose you could say that posting that insult itself is so immature that readers should recognize it as a joke, but I suggest that you should try to stay away from sarcasm when posting in online forums. It can be quite difficult to detect the sarcasm of a bunch of people you don't know.

I could end my post by sarcastically saying "don't worry, you'll learn what a joke is when you grow up", but hopefully you can imagine how some people would take that as a genuine insult rather than a joke. Though it would be punchier ending.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by trimethylpurine on Monday October 23, 2023 @01:26AM (#37981931)
>and placing yourself above them.

Like you did by downvoting?

Are you young? Because this comment shouldn't be offensive unless you're harboring doubt about immature decisions you've made. For everyone else, it's a tongue in cheek poke at the bad decisions I made when I was younger. Maybe you should look inward instead of downvoting.

/Shrug.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by dang on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @03:07PM (#38003753)
Breaking the site guidelines like this will get you banned here. Please don't post like this, no matter how right you are or feel you are. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by saulpw on Sunday October 22, 2023 @03:21AM (#37973504)
No one parks in the garage in the suburbs :) They either park in the driveway or on the street, both of which have ample room to store vehicles.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by checkyoursudo on Sunday October 22, 2023 @06:21AM (#37974179)
I tried parking in my garage for a while, but the car took up too much valuable space.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by doubled112 on Sunday October 22, 2023 @09:17AM (#37975097)
This is it. My garage is full of kid's stuff. I don't have a backyard for a shed, plus my landlords installed shelving on all three sides, some not above car roof level.

If we want to park a car in there, it's about an hour of moving stuff out of the way. I stand at the back as a spotter while my wife drives at me. Once she hit me, she turns the car off and climbs out through the back seat. I then climb over the roof of the car.

I wish I was making this up. Glad it's 12 years old with no sun roof. I don't have to feel bad about sliding over it.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by assimpleaspossi on Sunday October 22, 2023 @05:34AM (#37974008)
Was going to say the same. I have never lived in a house that did not have a garage.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by tjrgergw on Sunday October 22, 2023 @10:41AM (#37975775)
Would you please share which city is this, that has everything within 10 minute walk in its suburbs?
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by xw3098 on Sunday October 22, 2023 @11:08AM (#37976010)
Price is relative. That could be Los Altos, California. Which is very nice, walkable with garages, great parks and outdoors, but not what most people would call affordable. :)
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by trimethylpurine on Monday October 23, 2023 @03:33AM (#37982565)
I would argue that it's objectively cheaper to live in the suburbs. And I can assert with confidence that $100/mo in HOA fees provides walkable parks, trails, pools, gyms, tennis courts, basketball courts, etc. I vote on the financial management of all these things so I can be sure they are provided by that amount of money, objectively. Major builders do suburbs like this one across the country. And they make a killing managing them too.

Where are you? SF? SD? NY? Miami? You're paying a premium for the right to brag about it. Not for the amenities.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by acheron on Sunday October 22, 2023 @11:34AM (#37976260)
> because I was told the suburbs are horrible

Probably shouldn’t be taking advice from Reddit.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by carom on Sunday October 22, 2023 @12:55PM (#37977014)
Columbia, MD was one of the earlier planned suburbs. Each neighborhood has a grocery store. Worth looking at.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by trimethylpurine on Monday October 23, 2023 @03:42AM (#37982613)
I won't. But I'm basically describing the entire USA except the coasts, and a few major cities in between. For perspective, houses in SF sell for 10x the value per square foot compared with my neighborhood. And I'm not remotely in the cheapest place in the country. America is big. Look around. There is a LOT of space in the middle.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by kdwikzncba on Monday October 23, 2023 @05:54AM (#37983548)
Right, I'm calling bullshit. Suburbs in America don't have anything 10 minutes walk away. You're just confused what a suburb is. I'm honestly concerned that people like you are allowed to vote.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by trimethylpurine on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @01:55AM (#37995240)
The comment got a lot of upvotes, so clearly many people are living in suburbs like mine. If it's unbelievable for you, you've failed yourself. Sorry to hear that. I'm concerned that people like you are allowed to perpetuate price gouging on real estate because of your incompetence. Cheers.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by dang on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @03:09PM (#38003777)
Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. That only makes things worse.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Edit: you broke the site guidelines elsewhere in thread as well - see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38003753. Please don't do that.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by trimethylpurine on Wednesday October 25, 2023 @12:07AM (#38009031)
Thanks for the calm recourse. Noted. Appreciated.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by kdwikzncba on Friday October 27, 2023 @05:25PM (#38044187)
Meek.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by dang on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @03:08PM (#38003769)
Crossing into personal attack will get you banned here. Please don't post like this to HN, no matter how wrong someone is or you feel they are.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by jhatemyjob on Sunday October 22, 2023 @01:29AM (#37973057)
Silicon Valley is great for running and biking. Just look at Rancho San Antonio for example.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by dottjt on Sunday October 22, 2023 @03:13AM (#37973472)
I think the key is to have everything delivered to you. Once you figure that out, suburbs are great.

Of course, it's not equivalent to being able to walk to places, but I feel the pros outweigh the cons in terms of what you do get from the suburbs.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by reactordev on Sunday October 22, 2023 @03:26AM (#37973520)
>”I think the key is to have everything delivered to you.“

This is why we can’t have nice things. We simply can’t rely on a class of workers to dote on us simply because we fancy living in the burbs. The amount of waste just so you can get your instacart. The reality is near 8% mortgages have put suburbs with garages out of reach for almost everyone without a trust fund or selling their startup.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by dbtc on Sunday October 22, 2023 @04:38AM (#37973799)
What if robots did it?
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by jeffreygoesto on Sunday October 22, 2023 @05:11AM (#37973923)
Worse. The main damage is done building things and robots have a much higher total cost of being developed and built.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by mensetmanusman on Sunday October 22, 2023 @07:47AM (#37974547)
True to first order, not to second. Economy of scale making robots cheaper would dramatically improve economies and the environment.

Simple example would be to reduce the scale up and install cost of clean energy.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by reactordev on Sunday October 22, 2023 @10:58AM (#37975915)
If we had pick and pack robots and delivery drones that were powered by solar fields and alternative energy, I would say that’s about as close to carbon neutral logistics as we can get. Trucking and freight are still exorbitantly polluting but the heavy “last mile” pollution problem would be traded with increased overhead air traffic. The reality is: a self driving car with a delivery robot is probably going to be our answer in 2040.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by vasco on Sunday October 22, 2023 @04:56AM (#37973874)
> We simply can’t rely on a class of workers to dote on us simply because we fancy living in the burbs

You make zero sense. Going to the grocery store involves the same workers helping you pay for gas and selling you groceries, or cooking your meals. Are you a recluse that interacts with zero workers? Who in their right mind calls someone else out for using a regular service? You'd prefer those people to not have jobs surely.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by _visgean on Sunday October 22, 2023 @06:14AM (#37974152)
Its about efficiency, a grocery store will require one large supply truck. Supplying everyone to their home requires way more people and energy.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by mewpmewp2 on Sunday October 22, 2023 @07:24AM (#37974436)
Wouldn't delivery be more efficient than people not practiced at logistics delivering thinga to their homes back and forth themselves?
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by reactordev on Sunday October 22, 2023 @10:54AM (#37975877)
Possibly if that last mile delivery was carried out by people who were also practiced in logistics. This is never the case. It’s better for you to find a means of transportation to get your staples of living than to pay someone else to use any means of transportation to provide you your bananas.

The planet can’t take any more “conveniences” on our behalf. We need to find a more efficient way of delivering goods and getting our goods. Throwing your hands up and saying “I’ll just get everything delivered” is about the worst option you can do from a logistics perspective to reduce carbon.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by vasco on Sunday October 22, 2023 @08:26AM (#37974750)
There's no end to that game of efficiency. You end up with either ascetic monk life people or asking for population reduction measures.

If you're annoyed about low efficiency of ordering food, what do you think of vacation traveling, hobbies, any sort of vehicles etc. Most efficiency would be to have no humans with our superfluous wants and needs. Otherwise you're just shaming others for doing things you happen not to like, while forgetting all the useless things you do. Surely you have done consumist purchases that weren't required for your immediate survival or health preservation before.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by _visgean on Monday October 23, 2023 @08:27AM (#37984694)
> There's no end to that game of efficiency. You end up with either ascetic monk life people or asking for population reduction measures.

Yes because carrying groceries by 15m walk to home is surely on the same level as demanding population reduction measures.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by refurb on Sunday October 22, 2023 @06:14AM (#37974153)
What’s the difference between delivery in the city versus the suburbs? Does less distance make it ok?
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by spicymapotofu on Sunday October 22, 2023 @08:23AM (#37974740)
Yes, last mile shipping takes up an inordinate amount of energy.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by reactordev on Sunday October 22, 2023 @10:59AM (#37975922)
When I get some goods delivered in the city, it’s via bike messenger. When I get goods delivered via suburbs, it’s via F-150s.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by refurb on Monday October 23, 2023 @06:14AM (#37983661)
I live in a major city and it’s all by truck.

You’re the exception.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by kjkjadksj on Sunday October 22, 2023 @10:00AM (#37975455)
There are plenty of suburbs where you can also walk to places.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by refurb on Sunday October 22, 2023 @06:13AM (#37974150)
This is a very black and white view of the suburbs.

I would call the entire peninsula from SF to San Jose one big suburb.

Hell, everything West of Gough St in SF is pretty suburb-like: mostly residential, a few shopping streets and no offices.

Despite that there are plenty of areas that are very walkable, including public transportation and shopping for daily needs.

Not every suburb looks like a cluster of single family homes with nothing else within 10 miles.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by kjkjadksj on Sunday October 22, 2023 @09:58AM (#37975428)
Plenty of suburbs are walkable. I live in one with three grocery stores and a farmers market in walking distance.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by Blackthorn on Sunday October 22, 2023 @03:14AM (#37973478)
Prices in the suburbs aren't any better.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by grishka on Sunday October 22, 2023 @04:04AM (#37973655)
American tech folks. In my part of the world, you either have good access to civilization, or your own land. Having both at the same time (buying land close enough to a major city) is prohibitively expensive.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by hiAndrewQuinn on Sunday October 22, 2023 @06:27AM (#37974213)
I like the "concrete suburbs" we have here in Finland. I get why people born here don't have the highest opinion of them, but something about seeing identical 8-story high unadorned buildings for several blocks in a row, separated by little patches of park and forest sets me at ease. It feels like even if I were to lose my job I would still be able to pay rent here. Maybe it comes from growing up in an American city and seeing just how brutal the rent race can get firsthand.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by yterdy on Sunday October 22, 2023 @09:18AM (#37975098)
Suburbs aren't defined by having personal space. That can be achieved in cities and small towns with in-fill development of high square-footage apartments, n-plexes, and townhouses, or collective workspaces. The suburbs that people complain about are car-centric and are generally underfunded in the long-term, putting significant burdens on municipal and state finances for things like infrastructure maintenance (roads, sewers, etc.). Every suburban garage/city parking space pair is a half-dozen kids without up-to-date science textbooks and equipment.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by kjkjadksj on Sunday October 22, 2023 @10:03AM (#37975477)
Plenty of car centric suburbs do fine with the budget too. You got suburbs in california where homes are $2m. They aren’t hurting for road budget. High school class offerings in such a district might look downright collegiate from the additional funding the parents raise for the local school.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by yterdy on Sunday October 22, 2023 @11:23AM (#37976163)
There are several contentious aspects to this characterization:

1) California is a noted outlier. The tax base/road budget ratio does not scale well to the rest of the country.

2) The wealth of affluent suburbs is driven by the cities they surround. The cities generate enough wealth to nominally support the market rate labor that keep them running AND the professional/managerial class that cut and run.

3) The top quintile or two of earners are likelier to live in newer developments, where the cost of maintenance has not built up yet. As regions become older and less desirable, the affluent leave and are replaced by the less-so, just as replacement costs come due. This model is a burden on the state and national levels because it's so prevalent.

If, instead, the model were to have most people living were their wealth was generated - and therefore have amenities scale to means more closely - you would have fewer extremely wealthy individuals and families but a more sustainable and equitable society. I know this is anathema to many, who value getting ahead over getting together.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by waveBidder on Sunday October 22, 2023 @03:58AM (#37973641)
could we not make every post about housing please?
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by EliRivers on Sunday October 22, 2023 @04:43AM (#37973823)
On that thread, his garage is larger than the entire space I rented for living in when I was his age.

But the point I'm going on to make isn't just about how stupid the cost of housing is; it's that the high cost of housing comes with extra costs that we might not even see.

How many people would be doing all sorts of neat things, some of which would genuinely bloom into real advances and ideas and genuine new wealth (by which I don't just mean an income; I mean the creation of wealth) if only they could afford some goddamn space in which to do it, without having to move so far from the existing life they have that pays the bills and keeps them alive and sane (by which I mean to suggest that not everyone has the luxury of moving to where there is cheaper space, if their job and support networks won't move too).

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by ben_w on Sunday October 22, 2023 @05:27AM (#37973978)
You've just put me in mind of an different quote about impoverished geniuses:

"""I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.""" - Stephen Jay Gould, The Panda's Thumb: More Reflections in Natural History, 1980

World population has increased 60% since then, while extreme poverty decreased 66% in absolute (not relative) terms.

So, what I think would happen with more space, is that we would find the next limit, while mistaking the growth that improved conditions lead to as the natural state of affairs.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by vasco on Sunday October 22, 2023 @04:50AM (#37973854)
> How many people would be doing all sorts of neat things,

Not many, same distribution would apply to that population. Most would scroll tiktok in a larger house.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by thalassophobia on Sunday October 22, 2023 @05:19AM (#37973953)
Yes, but more creative people would be making something new, even if most would use it for nothing. No matter the amount of additional innovators, the total would still be bigger than it is now.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by Aerbil313 on Sunday October 22, 2023 @06:10AM (#37974146)
Do you imply creative people are a special breed who are immune to attention engineering?
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by a_humean on Sunday October 22, 2023 @06:21AM (#37974182)
They are just saying that if you assume this following:

* There is a rough fixed % of people that are capable of doing interesting things and maybe useful things

* There are minimum levels of resources, time, and comfort that enables you to do interesting things

* The current population that enjoys those resources isn't actually that different from the population at large in terms of that %

Assuming all of that, if you increased the welfare of the entire population to that minimum level (would be nice to do this anyway) then the absolute number of people doing interesting and maybe useful things would increase. I would say that most of human history and esp the past few hundred years has probably proven that to be true.

It is pretty clear from the photos that this young man is very fortunate to have well off and supportive parents. Very few working age adults in full time employment could afford the things shown in those photos let alone someone still in education.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by xw3098 on Sunday October 22, 2023 @11:04AM (#37975964)
You should read this shorty story:

https://www.abelard.org/asimov.php

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by fuzzfactor on Sunday October 22, 2023 @05:21PM (#37979202)
Excellent choice.

Asimov in the 1950's was quite a visionary. I always liked this.

Don't want to be a spoiler but in his visions for an increasingly advanced technological future once the 21st century would arrive, here the dystopian elements that had unfortunately accrued had to be fed to an increasingly conformist society as a utopia instead. No surprise considering the attitude during the Cold War. While the outliers having the true creative potential were subjected to an artificially dystopian environment by comparison, from which only the most-ambitious few would have to break out of on their own accord, against all odds, motivated only by their own committment, to take their rightful place as professionals.

Didn't have to wait until the 65th century to make significant progress in this direction.

>It is pretty clear from the photos that this young man is very fortunate to have well off and supportive parents.

Good observation, and maybe that's about all that's going to be having such an early start for some time to come now. But we don't need photos to be well aware he is vastly outnumbered by tons of more fortunate youngsters who have accomplished absolutely nothing at that age, if not perpetrated destructive efforts instead. Photos of their "accomplishments" outnumber this type of posting a million to one.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by FooBarBizBazz on Sunday October 22, 2023 @10:48AM (#37975831)
Excellent phrase, "attention engineering".

Related, somebody referred recently to the device that plays YouTube as the "depression box", because that's what it creates in short order: "I am incapable of anything but scrolling". Yup: "Depression box."

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by RetroTechie on Sunday October 22, 2023 @06:34AM (#37974240)
On a more practical note: people lifted out of poverty that become innovators, are (more) likely to do so in a frugal manner. Because make do with limited resources was spoonfed from early age.

Read: they could make for some very cost-effective innovation.

Lifting other people out of poverty that don't become innovators, would be 'bycatch' from that p.o.v. But still a worthwhile goal.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by Gud on Sunday October 22, 2023 @05:51AM (#37974082)
Most would be, but that 0.01% are the ones pushing humanity forward. Let's figure out how to give them the resources.

And how do you know most/many people aren't spending their times scrolling tiktok because they don't have the resources to do something more worthwhile?

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by vasco on Sunday October 22, 2023 @05:54AM (#37974090)
> And how do you know most/many people aren't spending their times scrolling tiktok because they don't have the resources to do something more worthwhile?

Because if that was it, most rich people, rich kids would be all doing crazy science experiments and advancing knowledge. But turns out they don't.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by Gud on Sunday October 22, 2023 @07:37AM (#37974500)
It’s also plausible todays rich kids are descendants of people who have optimized their lives for making money. I doubt such parents make the best role models for aspiring scientists.

It’s possible that a society that has a more prosperous general population will produce more successful scientists.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by dahart on Sunday October 22, 2023 @12:09PM (#37976608)
You have a source for that claim? Patents are absolutely dominated by people with PhDs, which is highly correlated with family income.

https://www.hamiltonproject.org/publication/economic-fact/el...

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by CapstanRoller on Monday October 23, 2023 @08:35PM (#37993552)
Most people don't need larger houses, they just need some kind of house.

A tiny house and a small shed/garage would be a huge boon for many aspiring engineers.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by hiAndrewQuinn on Sunday October 22, 2023 @06:24AM (#37974199)
If you want to compromise on neither location nor space, your only real option is to build upwards. Tall residential skyscrapers are the only way.

Personally I'm fine with that, but I get why people might have an aesthetic issue with it. They're of course allowed to compromise on one of the other 2 points to get a better looking neighborhood if they want.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by mitthrowaway2 on Sunday October 22, 2023 @12:05PM (#37976567)
I'd love to put a CNC mill there, but my apartment building doesn't let me use my parking space for anything except a car, unfortunately. I think that is quite common. :(
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by saidinesh5 on Sunday October 22, 2023 @07:10AM (#37974388)
> if only they could afford some goddamn space in which to do it...

It doesn't even have to be own space... just places like repair shops that let you hang around, maker/hacker spaces would go a long way.

I learned / had so much fun just hanging out at "Radio"(/TV/Tape recorder) Repair shops when I was a kid. Of course most of things i built back there were silly things like lights for my bicycle, longer earphone wires etc... But it is a valuable experience for me.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by supportengineer on Sunday October 22, 2023 @12:47PM (#37976953)
That used to be in high schools and it was called “shop class”.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by fuzzfactor on Sunday October 22, 2023 @01:43PM (#37977462)
Back in the early 1970's at the university I used to hang out in the rapidly developing IC fab shop with a fellow student who was an EE major. It was a unique time when individual innovation was at its highest point, and crushing financial pressure nationwide was only beginning to force the downward trend since then.

This was pretty interesting to me as a chemist, and there were even more parallels once I went to work for a company specializing in emerging chemicals, where unending experimentation and innovation was essential to bring yields up to tolerable levels from starting points which were barely feasible. Similar to emerging semiconductor processes.

With all the effort Zeloof has put in, apparently single-handedly for the most part, in his garage he does have what looks like a more advanced facility now than they had then. With the ability to make repairs and do maintenance on the comercially available equipment of the time, to a degree and with determination that the leading professors did not even usually possess.

This is the kind of person that needs to be protected from potential disasters that could derail his continuous progress, especially with such an early head-start.

Very much of an outlier, but there are uncountable others who have always had to wait for the least bit of opportunity which never arose in any realistic way.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by SubiculumCode on Sunday October 22, 2023 @02:29PM (#37977834)
Remote work for the win. The older I get, the less I care about having a large variety of places to eat and places to go (i.e. city living) and the more I wish for some basic space to do the things I want to do. Be it a shop/shed/or generous garage (without a car in it I'm fine with my car suffering from California sunshine).
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by rolph on Sunday October 22, 2023 @03:48PM (#37978466)
some people live a very industrial lifestyle, in a studio garage, with a couch and kitchen in the corner.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by dukeyukey on Sunday October 22, 2023 @07:08PM (#37979891)
Going by the photos on that article, the garage is bigger than the 500sqft ex-council flat I rent with my girlfriend, for the equivalent of $2k/month, in London.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by tjrgergw on Sunday October 22, 2023 @10:40AM (#37975765)
Oh man such a funny joke. It's funny because it's true.

That said, as a European the meme of "they started in their garage" always sounded so American. Maybe that's what Europe is lacking in terms of entrepreneurship - garages.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by toast0 on Sunday October 22, 2023 @11:10AM (#37976033)
Yes, but also no. The US has a basic fluidity of business. You can build things at home (in your garage, if you have one) and try to sell them and establish a formal business later, if the business justifies the process. For a one person business, there's not really a lot of requirements to formalize a sole proprietor business either: often a local business license (which is mostly guaranteed issue and just a tax collection point), a 'doing business as' filing if not using the person's name, and obtaining a tax id if needed (the IRS will issue one online in minutes, as I understand it), hiring people comes with more requirements.

Being able to start small and informally allows many more businesses to start.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by dukeyukey on Sunday October 22, 2023 @07:15PM (#37979940)
Worth pointing out the same is true in other countries - in the UK, a sole trader business doesn't need to notify the government they exist at all until tax return time.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by devmor on Sunday October 22, 2023 @01:46PM (#37977485)
Makerspaces are a godsend. I have 24/7 access to one for only $75/mo.

Not only do I host my own machinery there, but I have access to others’ and communal appliances and training on how to use them (as long as schedules line up).

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by iancmceachern on Sunday October 22, 2023 @05:22PM (#37979211)
In California you could totally build an advanced New piece of technology like a new IC machine or process in way less time than you could build a simple permitted barn.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by dang on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @03:05PM (#38003718)
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37971951.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by brailsafe on Saturday October 21, 2023 @09:07PM (#37971961)
I wonder where I could get the salary needed to have a garage, seems like that's the important bit ;)
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by DontchaKnowit on Saturday October 21, 2023 @11:03PM (#37972466)
Live somewhere cheaper and you can make enough to have a garage by painting houses or mowing lawns.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by OccamsMirror on Sunday October 22, 2023 @12:09AM (#37972754)
Not in Australia. Even rural is expensive.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by ekianjo on Sunday October 22, 2023 @12:28AM (#37972822)
Leave Australia :-)
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by 111111101101 on Sunday October 22, 2023 @01:17AM (#37973014)
This is the answer. Young people especially need to realise that this country doesn't want them.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by dottjt on Sunday October 22, 2023 @03:16AM (#37973485)
Interestingly, as a young Australian, I've thought about this a lot and I genuinely struggle to find a better country to live in.

We have our share of problems, but compared to the problems of other countries, I can't help but feel they're significantly less.

A large part of it being how isolated we are from the rest of the world and all the benefits that provides. Not to mention the low population density of the country as a whole.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by flask_manager on Sunday October 22, 2023 @07:12AM (#37974393)
It really depends what specific circumstances you are comparing. If you are looking at trades, low skill full time, or casual work, I dont think there is a better place to be. If you are comparing the lifestyle available from a full time skilled job (tech especially) its honestly not great.

Work anywhere in Asia, and while your wage may be lower, what you get for it goes a whole lot further. Restaurants are a focus, but things like a regular cleaner, doorman, club memberships are a whole lot more accessible. Things that are really only available in Australia to generational wealth these days, are available to skilled employees.

Work in western Europe, and the wages are slightly higher, and the cost of living is slightly lower; however the expectation for work-life balance is far better. 38hr weeks are very strict, with an expectation of flex time and time in lieu. with more weeks off, and better access to things like parental leave and study accommodations.

People make poor comparisons to America, because its a very hard thing to generalize. From my personal experience as a skilled full time worker, there is not one metric where Australia is a clear winner, and many where its far behind. The top end of healthcare is better in the USA, and if you factor in the lower taxes cheaper too. Crime statistics are worse, but localized to places I have no reason to go... I would say that USA as country is worse, but if you only look at the experience of someone who already has a skilled job, then you come out far ahead in the states.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by dottjt on Sunday October 22, 2023 @05:56PM (#37979459)
I would have to disagree about the full time skilled job comment.

I work remotely for a tech company and to say that you can barely work in Australia whilst earning a very decent salary, is an understatement. 2 - 3 hours a day, at most (at least in tech). Some days you don't even have to do anything. And this is most large companies (although it depends on your rank).

This factor alone makes Australia an amazing place to live, excluding all the other reasons to live here.

Compared to America and Asia, if I have to work 3-4 times harder than I currently am, what am I actually gaining? I'm just losing time to live the life I truly want. No thank you.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by flask_manager on Monday October 23, 2023 @06:48AM (#37983885)
The 3 hour day is a rare thing, but I dont think that its more available in Australia than anywhere else... I know more people with that setup in the states, as an anecdote.

And fully remote in the states has the additional benefit of actual high speed internet.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by dottjt on Monday October 23, 2023 @09:38AM (#37985424)
Well all I can say is that I've worked at 1 startup, 1 agency and 2 very large tech corporates here in Australia, and I've been able to maintain only working 2 - 3 hours a day at each of those companies, as well as maintain a few days not doing anything at all.

And I wouldn't even consider myself top-tier at what I do.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by sgt on Sunday October 22, 2023 @08:53AM (#37974948)
Come here to South Africa. In fact a lot of South African "expats" are moving back. Many, many places are extremely decent and lifestyle can be excellent.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by dottjt on Sunday October 22, 2023 @05:46PM (#37979379)
It could just be the media, but I've heard nothing but terrible things about South Africa.

Failing government. Constant crime. Water shortages. Power blackouts. Is it perhaps different if you're living in a gated community?

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by sgt on Sunday October 22, 2023 @06:31PM (#37979672)
Depends where you live. I don't live in a gated community and I am not affected directly by crime. Power blackouts is called loadshedding and has to do with capacity. Get solar and batteries and you will be immune to that. It's being fixed too.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by dottjt on Monday October 23, 2023 @09:41AM (#37985476)
But what you describe is so limiting, because you're forced in the one area. What if I want to leave the area and go for a road trip? Would I be safe travelling to the rest of South Africa, if there is crime, blackouts and a lack of water?

In Australia I can safely travel to anywhere within the country.

Where do you live btw? Would be interesting to research, happy to look into it more.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by sgt on Monday October 23, 2023 @02:46PM (#37989876)
Not limiting at all, you can travel pretty much everywhere safety. The crime ridden areas are usually crammed into small spaces. Poor people in SA are pushed into tiny areas. Lots of tourists come here to drive around and go 4x4-ing and so on. I'm near Cape Town.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by dottjt on Monday October 23, 2023 @05:36PM (#37991919)
Yeah, fair enough. Thanks for your time, I'll look into it!
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by ekianjo on Monday October 23, 2023 @04:59AM (#37983202)
> We have our share of problems, but compared to the problems of other countries, I can't help but feel they're significantly less

Covid camps and police take down for people jogging without masks did not convince you to move? I guess nothing will

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by dottjt on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @05:59PM (#38006260)
Instead of pointing out the problems, which provides nothing constructive to the discussion, can you please provide alternate countries which you believe might be better.

In addition, can you please also outline the problems of these countries, so we can properly evaluate and understand their problems objectively.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by kiwih on Sunday October 22, 2023 @01:32AM (#37973071)
How about the following list of 10 cities/towns in Australia with property around 100-300k AUD?

https://www.mpamag.com/au/mortgage-industry/guides/what-are-...

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by roganartu on Sunday October 22, 2023 @02:23AM (#37973261)
The first town on the list is a place famous for building houses underground due to the heat on the surface being too extreme. It’s also in the middle of nowhere.

The rest are country towns, not suburban ones. Where you need to drive hours to get to anything approaching what you might think of as “downtown”, and even then there’s not gonna be a lot there.

The reality in Australia is that the vast majority of the population lives within 100km of the east coast. It’s not like America where there are literally thousands of decent-sized small towns (tens of thousands of people), there just isn’t enough population for that. Almost half the population lives in two cities (Melbourne and Sydney) and neither of these are affordable places no matter how far out into the suburbs you go.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by catmanjan on Sunday October 22, 2023 @02:26AM (#37973280)
Good luck painting houses and mowing lawns in Coober Pedy haha
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by stephen_g on Sunday October 22, 2023 @02:44AM (#37973353)
If you work remotely (but don’t need a great internet connection to do so), don’t mind having absolutely minimal amenities, cultural activities (apart from a few tourist traps), international airports etc. within a day or two’s drive… then sure.

Usually these places are cheap because there is little economy (so few jobs), so most of the even slightly ambitious youth escape to the cities or larger towns in the area, which leaves them with ‘interesting’ demographics.

This is an interesting inversion actually, because things like meth and then the associated crime are much more of a problem in the country than the cities here, which is kind of the opposite of what you hear about the cities being dangerous in places like the US.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by _kb on Sunday October 22, 2023 @04:11AM (#37973685)
Here's a write up of number #4: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-18/tara-isolated-rural-b.... There's a reason for that pricing.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by femto on Sunday October 22, 2023 @04:39AM (#37973803)
#3 Port Pirie is (in)famous for its lead contamination [1].

#5 Queenstown is also contaminated [2]

The rest could be nice?

[1] https://theconversation.com/lead-poisoning-of-port-pirie-chi...

[2] https://www.anu.edu.au/news/all-news/tasmanian-lakes-metal-c...

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by _kb on Sunday October 22, 2023 @04:56AM (#37973878)
# 9 Charleville - I've not lived there, but I've visited. For a sense of the remoteness, when the International Space Station passes overhead, it's twice as close as the nearest major city.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by femto on Sunday October 22, 2023 @05:02AM (#37973906)
Sounds like astronomy heaven.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by SturgeonsLaw on Sunday October 22, 2023 @05:32AM (#37974000)
Tara, QLD, is where people who want to be forgotten go to disappear. There are off grid shanty towns in the area, one of which was the site of a fatal ambushing of police officers last year.

https://inqld.com.au/insights/2022/12/14/police-shooting-tra...

There's a reason these places are cheap.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by ChainOfFools on Sunday October 22, 2023 @02:49AM (#37973373)
Recently moved into a four-bedroom home in a moderately desirable suburb of Los Angeles. I myself work in tech field and my spouse is university faculty. Our subdiv is a large tract of homes built 15-25 years ago, all in the mid six figures to just a hair over seven.

At least three of the neighbors within sight of my own house are some sort of residential construction or property trade contractor. Two are public school teachers. At least one paints houses for a living. It is apparently totally possible to work a trade and live a recently comfortable lifestyle. I'm not saying it's easy, and I'm not saying that there is a straightforward path to break in to that lifestyle but it is evidently more than abundantly possible.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by reactordev on Sunday October 22, 2023 @03:30AM (#37973535)
Most tradespeople I know can’t afford “hair over seven” figures for a home. Everyone in your neighborhood is house poor. They are banking on equity. They had a sizable upfront down payment.

Like I said, all the tradespeople I know are struggling with lower 6, much less hair over 7.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by kjkjadksj on Sunday October 22, 2023 @10:10AM (#37975536)
But do you work in the trades in places where the median home is $800k? Trade wages are probably better in socal.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by reactordev on Sunday October 22, 2023 @10:46AM (#37975814)
They do. Median home value here is $950k. All of my trades friends are house poor and asking family for assistance.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by kjkjadksj on Wednesday October 25, 2023 @02:27PM (#38016379)
House poor and asking for family assistance is something thats common even where homes are $200k. More than half of american home buyers use family assistance. The fact they are in the market at all at nearly $1m median prices on trade wages is incredible, family assistance or being house poor while you pay down to get rid of pmi or not.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by thfuran on Sunday October 22, 2023 @06:32AM (#37974233)
I suspect the key to that success is having bought in before the house prices significantly increased.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by dukeyukey on Sunday October 22, 2023 @07:17PM (#37979951)
I know tradies with massive houses and smallholdings within 50 miles of London. I've also lived with tradies in a 4-person semi-legal HMO.

The error bars here are huge.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by _fizz_buzz_ on Sunday October 22, 2023 @07:38AM (#37974504)
I don’t quite get why Australia is so expensive. It’s basically all empty land (bigger than the EU and the population of the Netherlands). Shouldn’t it be dirt cheap?
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by literalAardvark on Sunday October 22, 2023 @07:54AM (#37974582)
The bits that aren't a desert and people want to live in are actually fairly populated.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by kjkjadksj on Sunday October 22, 2023 @10:07AM (#37975509)
Honestly the big stark difference between Australia and the US seems to be immigration. There might be a fundamental lack of a labor pool that might have been building out comparable infrastructure and housing supply that we see in similarly geographic sized US.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by amelius on Sunday October 22, 2023 @05:38AM (#37974033)
Other options:

1. Find a job where you have a workspace or a lab to tinker in.

2. Find a makerspace/hackerspace in your neighborhood.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by moffkalast on Sunday October 22, 2023 @09:16AM (#37975089)
Simple, just inherit a house with a garage :P
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by hoc on Saturday October 21, 2023 @09:43PM (#37972129)
The main issue I have with all that is that one could have had/home-built most of that in the 80s already (except for the resins).

So in a way this all is more about online orders as well as global access and visibility than about the actual tech.

Wasted decades in a way. Guess we needed to build the interwebs first.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by thfuran on Sunday October 22, 2023 @06:35AM (#37974242)
What would you have used in the 80s to make molds?
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by hoc on Sunday October 22, 2023 @04:47PM (#37978947)
I still see that part as the most complicated and work-intensive in a small/home setting. I've been looking at ways, effort and prices for several years now and I'm still split between resin plus injection or just resin prints. And I am still end up with outsourcing as the result. But I'd really like to own that process... frustrating.

If anyone has a really feasible/well working solution for enclosures etc. please post them :)

That said, while I excluded the molding part explicitly, since I thought about CNC milling, pick /place and other computer-cobtrolled multi-axis applications, I think one could have used CNC and/or some kind of "sand" baking (negative) appoach. Not sure what kind of hard wood solutions might also have worked as some kind of medium for subtractive designing the negative for a small production run.

Still not something I would see as easily implementable. But I also have no lazy solution with nice results today. E.g. for implementing display windows some kind of professionally color-coated clear case seems the way to go to get to something that ressembles current standards (always the main problem, anyway). Hard to do that with limited space and without a professional absorber solution.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by xyzzy123 on Saturday October 21, 2023 @10:01PM (#37972201)
> he is etching wafers on his desktop CNC

Wait do you mean etching wafers, or milling PCBs? One of those things you listed is not like the others.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by fragmede on Saturday October 21, 2023 @10:58PM (#37972449)
Given the linked article is about a 22 year old making a 1,500 transistor IC, etching wafers for a 40 year old with a FAANG salary doesn't seem that far fetched!

It'd have to be a really clean garage tho

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by georgeburdell on Saturday October 21, 2023 @11:34PM (#37972603)
I think the CNC part is what’s interesting. A wet etch, or even a plasma etcher, is conceivable in a garage and are the traditional tools of the trade.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by stephen_g on Sunday October 22, 2023 @06:47AM (#37974298)
I assumed that they must have meant milling PCBs, because the only kind of “cnc-ish” way of manipulating things on wafers I can think of would be atomic manipulation with a scanning tunnelling microscope, which really doesn’t seem likely!
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by AussieWog93 on Saturday October 21, 2023 @10:50PM (#37972413)
May I ask how you do this, specifically? What machine do you use for injection molding, and how do you make the moulds?

Very interested in doing this myself.

(Also interested in specific recommendations for a desktop pick n place if anyone has some)

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by 15155 on Sunday October 22, 2023 @12:58AM (#37972939)
https://www.smallsmt.biz/products/

or any similar Shenzhen special. Buy bigger over smaller.

Buy, don't build. There will be a handful of recommendations for the Opulo Lumen/OpenPNP: avoid them. Avoid everything but ballscrew designs: you will spend an annoying amount of time trying to calibrate a belt-driven design and calibration will never stick.

Please, do not make the mistake I did: get something with CL feeders, make this investment. Drag feeders are not good - they are slow and the stylus will violently shake parts out of reels (or you'll spend time calibrating it to try and avoid this issue - don't waste the time.) Get something that can do 0201, even if you don't use it.

Ideally, get something that uses a separate, commodity host machine.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by simultsop on Sunday October 22, 2023 @02:10AM (#37973207)
I thought the entire plan of independence is building yourself and not buying at all.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by 15155 on Sunday October 22, 2023 @02:16AM (#37973237)
Independence is having the knowledge, skills, equipment to do it yourself if you had to - not doing something just because.

I didn't build my vapor phase reflow oven, either.

I'm trying to solve my own problems, not craft a basic piece of equipment for bragging rights; I just don't have the kind of free time to have things not work perfectly.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by toast0 on Sunday October 22, 2023 @11:20AM (#37976130)
That works, maybe, if you're a giant of indusrtry... Hyundai doesn't have to buy ram for its cars, it can build it.

But if you're small, you can't build most of what you need, and you should not build what you can buy that's better than whaf you can build, and you may as well buy things that you can build as good unless the cost to build is much less.

Sometimes it's fun to build things instead of buying them, and that'a ok. But if your goal is to do X, you're better off spending time on X than spending time building tools you could have bought. (Unless building the tools builds requisite knowledge)

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by rfrey on Sunday October 22, 2023 @01:43PM (#37977458)
There is no bright line on the DIY spectrum between that injection molder and making your own charcoal to refine iron.

I love building machines - enough so that I never build anything with them. Maybe someday I will, but by then 15155 will have built hundreds of things.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by AussieWog93 on Monday October 23, 2023 @05:28AM (#37983379)
Thanks for that. Drag feeders are exactly the type of thing I would try first time around, because I'm not sure what I'd lneed.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by SOLAR_FIELDS on Sunday October 22, 2023 @01:55AM (#37973138)
I built a buster beagle. YouTube has a bunch of great guides from him plus what to buy.

Mold making is a difficult science of itself. I can’t point you in a general direction beyond what worked for me. I started with OpenSCAD then moved to FreeCAD then eventually ended up with Fusion360. You need to have a vision for what you want to make, or else you won’t follow through till the end with learning. There is some dude from Texas who wrote a textbook on the subject that was invaluable for me in learning how to design oxygenation and cooling techniques. This is hardcore industrial engineering stuff, the kind of thing that you don’t casually do.if you’re trying to learn and do this yourself you need to not be afraid of doing some applied physics.

There was a lot of crying and pain and trial and error for me to teach myself. If you know what you want I would instead go on fiverr or its equivalent of the day and hire yourself an actual mold designer and save yourself 90% of the pain and heartache that I went through. Mold designers are weirdly cheap for the insane amount of expertise they offer

Printing the mold is another heartache of itself. I used anycubic photon with a flex plate and Sriraya resin. That was a journey all by itself - I originally started with insanely expensive Formlabs stuff before getting to the Anycubic solution. Again it took a lot of crying and trial and error to get it right. But it costs a mere fraction of what it costs to do it the normal way at least

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by AussieWog93 on Monday October 23, 2023 @05:26AM (#37983368)
Thank you for taking the time to share your experience. There's probably $5,000 and 200 hours of tears saved just in this post.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by georgeburdell on Saturday October 21, 2023 @11:23PM (#37972551)
I would be interested to know more about that “etching wafers on his desktop CNC”
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by dvh on Sunday October 22, 2023 @03:31AM (#37973544)
How do you get fully assembled PCBs at JLCPCB for $5. I just ordered one and it was $4.10 for bare PCB, assembly would cost additional $8 so minimum for assembled pcb is $12.
Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by _Microft on Sunday October 22, 2023 @04:53AM (#37973868)
They are waiving the assembly setup fee at the moment.

https://jlcpcb.com/blog/4-Free-Assembly-for-Your-PCB

The GP commenter also wrote about a price "per unit":

> get some reasonably complex fully assembled prototype boards shipped to me in a week or two for $5-20 USD per unit.

Re:22-Year-Old Builds Chips in His Parents' Garage (2022) by devwastaken on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @01:59AM (#37995271)
It's the software and IC knowledge that defines modern hardware. It's expensive IP and there's few open source references. You have to gain a lot of specific experience and by chance have an idea people will pay for. Even then, it's likely already patented.