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Re:My YouTube Earnings by warent on Monday January 02, 2023 @07:13PM (#34225648)
The transparency of this is really amazing; big respect. It's interesting to think that this information was quietly posted to their low-traffic blog with little notice, meanwhile the information contained is actually extremely valuable (and itself would have probably made a highly valuable youtube video itself with 10s of millions of views).

I wonder how much other information exists on the web that is extremely valuable yet unnoticed

Re:My YouTube Earnings by VWWHFSfQ on Monday January 02, 2023 @07:32PM (#34225841)
I could be wrong but I don't think YouTube TOS allows publicizing this kind of information. I would be afraid of my channel being de-monetized. I believe they have a similar policy for AdSense.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by runarberg on Monday January 02, 2023 @07:45PM (#34225981)
I think such policy is illegal in many countries. An employer cannot prohibit workers from discussing salaries. This is often a measure to combat against gender discrimination at a workplace. I’m not sure how this affects contractors, but I would be surprised if these laws wouldn’t cover contractors as well.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by phpisthebest on Monday January 02, 2023 @08:28PM (#34226341)
>> An employer cannot prohibit

This is my biggest pet peeve with YouTubers. THEY ARE NOT EMPLOYEES OF YOUTUBE.

employment laws do not apply to a youtuber, unless they are employed by some other company, but they do NOT have an employment relationship with YouTube, they are not "employees" of YouTube, and Susan Wojcicki is not "their boss"

Re:My YouTube Earnings by dec0dedab0de on Monday January 02, 2023 @08:46PM (#34226479)
That's an odd pet peeve, and while you're probably right in most places, I wouldn't be surprised if some countries define employee differently. Atleast in regards to wether or not certain practices or fine print is legal.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by phpisthebest on Monday January 02, 2023 @08:51PM (#34226529)
>>That's an odd pet peeve

Everytime there is a YT Change (like happen recently) there is all these videos where YT often try to compare their experience with employment, how their "boss" Susan did something, or how they are being "Fired" if they get banned, or other such non-sense. That is my peeve.

>>I wouldn't be surprised if some countries define employee differently.

I would be surprised if any nation classified a person uploading videos on to a platform with the hopes of having a revenue share on ads the 3rd party sells on those videos is in anyway an "employee" of any kind.

I would also be surprised if any country has laws where 2 parties could not agree to non-disclosure of the terms of their business contract (which is the basis for this comment thread). that is pretty standard really

I would also be surprised since most of the time when you upload a video you have to agree you will be governed under the Laws of the US, and even more specific the laws of California

Re:My YouTube Earnings by coldtea on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:01PM (#34226589)
>I would be surprised if any nation classified a person uploading videos on to a platform with the hopes of having a revenue share on ads the 3rd party sells on those videos is in anyway an "employee" of any kind.

I would be surprised in some countries dont change their laws at some time to account for this digital sharecropping (from Youtube and iOS App Store to Uber, etc), and set some rules (like with employment) to this wild west of making a living that affects millions...

Re:My YouTube Earnings by lotsofpulp on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:09PM (#34226654)
Digital sharecropping?

Any country or group of people is welcome to spin up their own data centers and content moderations teams to make their own YouTube.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by smadge on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:49PM (#34226947)
The digital sharecropper analogy is less about the monopoly position of platforms but about the content creator and platform relationship. More platforms wouldn’t change that relationship.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by lotsofpulp on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @09:04AM (#34231399)
The platform owner can change the relationship, for example if it’s is publicly owned.

The point is is no one else in the world wants to make the enormous investment required to create a YouTube, so why should they get to make the rules?

It is not technically hard to make a YouTube alternative, just expensive.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by Dylan16807 on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @01:30AM (#34228466)
Isn't buying your own farm easier then spinning up your own data center? I really don't understand the point you're trying to make.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by lotsofpulp on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @11:16AM (#34233382)
For an individual, yes. For a country? It is just a matter of the country not wanting to spend the money to buy servers, bandwidth, and labor to moderate.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by Dylan16807 on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @03:40PM (#34237696)
Why are countries coming up now? I thought you were arguing against the sharecropping analogy, and the people that do sharecropping are all low-power individuals.

"Someone rich could make a new ecosystem" is unrelated to whether the current ecosystem resembles sharecropping.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by lotsofpulp on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @06:56PM (#34239891)
Because coldtea’s response involved using the power of a country’s legal system to force a business to share its revenue.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by Dylan16807 on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @07:38PM (#34240249)
If an accusation of sharecropping is legitimate, I think it's fair for the government to apply regulation and not just try to compete.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by coldtea on Wednesday January 04, 2023 @06:26AM (#34244359)
So, is your arguent that instead of inconveniencing those businesses, countries should just create competiting public services?

They can always do that too, but I'm also full for them inconveniencing those businesses.

Businesses should be whiped and forced to play responsibly in society. They can innovate on tech and features, they don't have to innovate on milking people and erroding working rights.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by coldtea on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @04:26AM (#34229545)
And any sharecropper was welcome to buy their own land, spin up their own castle, fund their own mercenary army, and make their own feudal kingdom! Sharecroppers weren't slaves either. But that's a pretty low bar (and "build your own YouTube" a pretty high bar).
Re:My YouTube Earnings by lotsofpulp on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @11:08AM (#34233252)
I disagree that build your own YouTube is a “high” bar, outside of money.

There are and were multitudes of video hosting and serving websites. It is just ridiculously expensive.

Castles, mercenary armies, and conquering land are comparable much, much more difficult.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by coldtea on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @03:23PM (#34237443)
>I disagree that build your own YouTube is a “high” bar, outside of money. (...) It is just ridiculously expensive.

I'm not sure what you mean. That it's not rocket science? Well, yes, it isn't. It's not the technology: money (and to a second extend, entrenchment and network effects, and ties with Android, and many other non-tech things) IS of course the huge, sky-high, bar, to building an alternative YouTube.

>Castles, mercenary armies, and conquering land are comparable much, much more difficult.*

Well, it was quite a lot of mobility in the feudal ranks. Any competent mercenary could rise to be a higher ranking soldier, and any compenent and cunning higher ranking soldier could, and often did, take on some existing feudal lords, and get their own smaller or bigger fiefdom. After some point, even succesful merchants could get their own armies and castles and be feudal "nobility". Tons of stories from the feudal times (that was what all of cross-feudal fighting was about), and thousands of castles and fiefdoms - and that's just in Europe.

Whereas Youtube? That's one service of its size/scale in the world, covering multiple billions of people.

That would be more like trying to get something competitive not to a feudal lord (which were a dime a dozen), but to the whole of an empire.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by runarberg on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @12:26AM (#34228037)
> digital sharecropping

This has to stop. People are making products which one company uses to profit. This company is buying their labor—albeit in a really roundabout way. We’ve heard this gaslighting from e.g. Uber, where their workers weren’t employees but “gig workers”, or some other thing.

The only reason companies do this is to get their labor for cheaper. No, these are YouTube workers, their labor is bought by YouTube, and YouTube should obey all labor laws when they buy their labor and profit from their work.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by bryanrasmussen on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @03:41AM (#34229274)
the analogy doesn't work here, the videos are owned by their creators so they can monetise that content in other available ways, once an Uber driver has given someone a ride they can't find new ways to profit off of that (at least legally, or unless the passenger was a celebrity)
Re:My YouTube Earnings by coldtea on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @04:25AM (#34229540)
The farm products were owned by the sharecroppers too, to eat or sell as they see fit. They just had to pay their tax to the landowner and be at their mercy regarding the property and changes in demands.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by bryanrasmussen on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @04:58AM (#34229728)
the farm products when used once are used up, videos, texts, "content" can be reused theoretically infinitely.

furthermore you paid for the right to work the land what the landowner asked, nobody pays a minimum rate to have a YouTube channel that I am aware of.

I understand it is a rhetorically powerful phrase, digital sharecropper, but unfortunately as often happens with analogies it falls apart with all the ways it does not fit.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by coldtea on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @08:24AM (#34230986)
>the farm products when used once are used up, videos, texts, "content" can be reused theoretically infinitely.

How is this a useful distinction? It's about how you can sell the product, but doesn't change the fact that you don't own your lot, that you pay a percentage share to the owner of the place, that they can change the terms or even crush you anytime they like, and so on.

>furthermore you paid for the right to work the land what the landowner asked, nobody pays a minimum rate to have a YouTube channel that I am aware of.

What you paid to the landowner was a percentage of your lot's production, same as with YouTube.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by runarberg on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @12:17PM (#34234381)
So if people insist YouTube does not employ the creators of the products that make them money, then at best YouTube is their land lords. I don’t know if that is any better, particularly if this land lord is not asking for rent, but rather, is asking their creators to work for them.

No, this is an even further stretch.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by midasuni on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @04:07AM (#34229446)
Does YouTube stop people from uploading the videos to other platforms? Do they require a set commitment of work?

There are various tests that apply to contractors in the U.K. to work out if you’re an employee or a Lego mate contracting company, as it makes a difference to how taxes and benefits are calculated. Fro my understanding YouTube nowhere near meets that criteria of employee/employer. Companies like Uber and deliveroo are far closer.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by coldtea on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @04:23AM (#34229535)
>There are various tests that apply to contractors in the U.K.

As there are in most of the world. Most of them were made for the factory and office era, and despite "updates" still within the old spirit, are antiquated in 2023 when it comes to addressing many new work scenarios...

Re:My YouTube Earnings by runarberg on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @12:21PM (#34234448)
I actually wonder if they are really that antiquated, but rather that these schemes to bypass labor laws used to be called out and stopped, either by the unions in the 1890s or 1920s, or by the government in the 1950s.

That is, I wonder if the the deregulation era of the 1980s also deregulated labor practices to the extent that companies can now jump through these hoops in order to avoid labor laws.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by kube-system on Monday January 02, 2023 @08:12PM (#34226216)
The YouTube Partner program doesn’t pay people to do any sort of work, though. It is a revenue sharing program.

Usually a wage or salary is a payment in exchange for doing something. Which this isn’t.

I would imagine most places treat this similarly to the way something like a book publishing agreement works.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by foota on Monday January 02, 2023 @07:53PM (#34226059)
They're not a contractor?
Re:My YouTube Earnings by alvah on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:05PM (#34226618)
Where do people get the idea that they are either employees of or contractors to YouTube? Do Amazon affiliates and bloggers monetizing with AdSense have the same, false idea?
Re:My YouTube Earnings by jonas21 on Monday January 02, 2023 @07:54PM (#34226063)
I don't think that's right. A lot of YouTubers make videos detailing their YouTube earnings and post them to YouTube (for example [1]). If it were against the ToS, you'd think YouTube would at least remove those videos.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Rm-ElJPDJk

Re:My YouTube Earnings by doodlesdev on Monday January 02, 2023 @08:19PM (#34226266)
It is against ToS I'm pretty sure, I don't remember YouTube ever doing anything about it ever though since a lot of people really do share this information publicly.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by cowsandmilk on Monday January 02, 2023 @08:32PM (#34226378)
Can you point to the section of the ToS? In my brief glance just now, I didn’t see anything disallowing sharing this information.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by doodlesdev on Monday January 02, 2023 @10:22PM (#34227174)
The terms for the partner program aren't the same as for the YouTube website and are not available publicly (at least from my short search). I did read it a few years ago when I was considering monetizing a small channel I had and remember very vividly something along those lines in the terms.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by Aaronmacaron on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @04:35AM (#34229596)
I came across a YouTube creator who shared their revenue with their audience. They mentioned that the idea that sharing revenue is not allowed has been a myth for many years. However, I believe that some channel networks may prohibit creators from disclosing their revenue. Unfortunately, I cannot recall the name of the creator.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by hahalolha on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:31PM (#34226811)
> I don't think that's right. A lot of YouTubers make videos detailing their YouTube earnings and post them to YouTube (for example [1]). If it were against the ToS, you'd think YouTube would at least remove those videos.

From memory, the issue is publicly disclosing CPM among some other things (at least it was 4+ years ago).

I actually wonder if posting it off-platform is even allowed, I've seen Twitch enforce their platform exclusivity for 24 hours for Partners.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by baron816 on Monday January 02, 2023 @09:34PM (#34226840)
Yeah, I’ve seen lots of these videos. I’d expect YouTube would want creators to do this since viewers see it and get inspired to become YouTube creators.

The same logic applies to most tech jobs. I would expect more big tech companies would want to broadcast their comp numbers to encourage more people to pursue those careers and apply to those companies. The average joe probably assumes SWEs at Google make $100-150K MAX. If more people knew they could make doctor-like numbers without going to grad school (or even going to college at all in some cases), more people would go into tech. But I guess companies have done the math and determined its better to conceal that information best they can to keep their advantage during negotiations.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by Scoundreller on Monday January 02, 2023 @08:45PM (#34226473)
Dunno about YouTube, but Adsense used to prohibit that but then reversed that policy.

I remember emailing someone that said they “didn’t share how much they made because it’s against TOS” after the policy changed and they still declined.

I think it might have been the “I made my Christmas lights controlled by anyone on the internet” guy.

It was a long time ago.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by AnonGooseTown on Monday January 02, 2023 @10:20PM (#34227163)
That guy is Matt Parker from StandUpMaths
Re:My YouTube Earnings by lathiat on Monday January 02, 2023 @10:02PM (#34227034)
That used to be the case but it changed at some point I think about 2 years ago - couldn't find a quick reference to exactly when it changed but I remember seeing quite a few channels start publishing their earnings once it changed.

This quora post quotes the terms: https://www.quora.com/Am-I-allowed-to-show-my-earnings-to-my...

"HOWEVER, YOU MAY ACCURATELY DISCLOSE THE AMOUNT OF GOOGLE’S GROSS PAYMENTS TO YOU PURSUANT TO THE PROGRAM"

Linus Tech Tips has published their earnings for the past couple of years. One detailed video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zt57TWkTF4

Linus also posted his adsense of ~$4.6million for the last 9 months a couple of days ago: https://twitter.com/linusgsebastian/status/16094682622194032...

Re:My YouTube Earnings by walrus01 on Monday January 02, 2023 @10:10PM (#34227078)
Linus Media Group has at least ten full time employees and rents a fairly large office/warehouse/studio space in the Vancouver suburb area of Surrey/Langley BC.

Their payroll and overhead costs probably eat up a significant part of that 4.6m.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by AnonGooseTown on Monday January 02, 2023 @10:19PM (#34227157)
They are up to ~80 employees if I recall. However the YouTube ad revenue is just one component not including video sponsorships and their merch store.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by nighthawk454 on Monday January 02, 2023 @10:48PM (#34227371)
Up to ~100 according to Linus's reply tweet:

https://twitter.com/linusgsebastian/status/16094698614949519...

Re:My YouTube Earnings by Spartan-S63 on Monday January 02, 2023 @10:28PM (#34227223)
They have around 100 employees and rent, I think, (at least) two warehouse spaces. They also seem to do work-for-hire production work, merch, and Floatplane on top of their YouTube content. I'm sure there are other revenue streams that aren't obvious besides those listed in addition to their YouTube AdSense only being a slice of their advertising revenue since they do in-video sponsored spots.

Source on employee count: https://twitter.com/linusgsebastian/status/16094698614949519...

Re:My YouTube Earnings by apocalyptic0n3 on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @09:22AM (#34231648)
They own three or four different warehouse spaces in the same complex. 4 units comprise the main studio + shop area, LTT Store has its own unit, Labs has a massive warehouse they're working on setting up, and I believe they still have the original Labs space they decided to not go with (or this is what became the LTT Store space). According to what Linus has said in the past, they own (not lease) all of these units.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by dharmab on Monday January 02, 2023 @10:25PM (#34227202)
They have other revenue streams. Sponsorships, YouTube Premium, Floatplane, their online store, affiliate links on YouTube and their forums to name some.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by lathiat on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @01:31AM (#34228476)
Yes its a small part of the pie. In their 2020 review it was about 20% of their revenue. Their lttstore.com creator warehouse stuff has gone crazy since then - they were talking about having 5-10m tied up just in inventory waiting to sell. So, yes.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by noduerme on Monday January 02, 2023 @10:39PM (#34227302)
Is this really so hush-hush, secret or amazing? It seems pretty run of the mill... there must be millions of people with access to these reports for various channels.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by Decabytes on Monday January 02, 2023 @07:32PM (#34225842)
I don't think YouTube allows you to make videos showing your revenue, but I could be wrong
Re:My YouTube Earnings by phphphphp on Monday January 02, 2023 @07:36PM (#34225892)
Many years ago you were prohibited from sharing warnings by virtue of YouTube monetisation being through AdSense but, as far as I know, there’s no longer such a restriction. Lots of people publish their earnings nowadays, very common amongst finance channels.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by Izikiel43 on Monday January 02, 2023 @07:50PM (#34226026)
Linus tech tips did a video sharing their YouTube earnings last year
Re:My YouTube Earnings by geerlingguy on Monday January 02, 2023 @08:44PM (#34226471)
Indeed, Linus just shared the Ad revenue for 3/4 of last year a couple days ago: https://twitter.com/linusgsebastian/status/16094682622194032...
Re:My YouTube Earnings by Aeolun on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @12:33AM (#34228082)
Holy moly, 4M for a bunch of videos. Talk about passive income.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by winrid on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @12:55AM (#34228232)
It's not passive. He has many employees.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by ErneX on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @02:55AM (#34228971)
Re:My YouTube Earnings by estomagordo on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @03:44AM (#34229308)
wat
Re:My YouTube Earnings by jrockway on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @12:56AM (#34228242)
If you've ever watched LTT, you'll know that his business is anything but passive. They own buildings, have employees, HR departments, R&D, and all that stuff. This sort of approach is probably not too different, except in scale, to huge media companies.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by trollied on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @03:26AM (#34229172)
Indeed, he says he spent more than the youtube income on salaries.

Of course he has other income streams - sponsorships, lttstore.com, commissioned videos etc.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by chillfox on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @12:59AM (#34228251)
There’s very little passive about running a YouTube channel, and if you stop publishing then traffic to your existing videos will start to drop off over time.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by neilv on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @07:02AM (#34230432)
I saw a standalone video ad with him the other day (on LinkedIn?) for Supermicro server products. It was clear from his voice that it was a paid promotion (not the same tone as a typical semi-objective modern product demo/review), but I'd guess that would have some reputation cost with some viewers. So I'd guess his company makes good money from that as well.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by doc_gunthrop on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @12:31AM (#34228061)
A YouTuber who goes by the handle kofuzi just released a video that goes into the fine details and analysis of his channel's metrics with full transparency. He's easily among the top 3 video content makers who focus on running, running shoes, and running events. Despite putting out high-quality videos, his channel isn't nearly as popular as OP (probably due to his focus being more niche).
Re:My YouTube Earnings by Aaronmacaron on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @04:18AM (#34229508)
This is not true. There are quite a few large (and also some smaller ones) youtubers who shared their ad-sense revenue.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by ProAm on Monday January 02, 2023 @08:34PM (#34226398)
> I wonder how much other information exists on the web that is extremely valuable yet unnoticed

This is pretty common knowledge for monetized or high viewership (sponsored/paid for outside of Google) channels.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by Aeolun on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @12:31AM (#34228063)
It may be common knowledge for people that already have a channel, but I’ve never seen anyone give exact revenue numbers to outsiders before.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by chillfox on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @12:56AM (#34228239)
There’s quite a few videos on YouTube sharing that info about their channel. It’s also frequently shared in various YouTube creator/business communities.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by Aeolun on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @02:52AM (#34228956)
Right, maybe nobody shares it outside of video format.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by grecy on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @10:07AM (#34232272)
Do you have links to the communities you mention? Thanks
Re:My YouTube Earnings by chillfox on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @11:45AM (#34233880)
They are all private forums/Facebook groups for various YouTube analytics tools or production/business courses. So you would have to spend money to get access to them.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by grecy on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @07:14PM (#34240034)
Thanks. Do you have any recommendations on ones that have been worth it?
Re:My YouTube Earnings by chillfox on Wednesday January 04, 2023 @01:33AM (#34242743)
Sure, https://morningfa.me/ (analytics tool) and https://incomeschool.com/project24/ (course) are both products that focus heavily on research based recommendations. Their YouTube channels (https://www.youtube.com/@Morningfame and https://www.youtube.com/@ChannelMakers) have a lot of good information as well.

They both have private communities where people freely share a lot of good info (especially Project24).

There are many others that I have heard good things about but have not checked out myself.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by szundi on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @01:42AM (#34228533)
Lots of youtubers publish this, like EEVBlog and Andreas Spiess also.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by FanaHOVA on Wednesday January 04, 2023 @06:47AM (#34244489)
A Magic content producer did one a while ago. The YT vs Twitch numbers comparison was incredible https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DtTwGFwcQs
Re:My YouTube Earnings by nomilk on Monday January 02, 2023 @08:43PM (#34226467)
> (this) information is extremely valuable

Estimating earnings based on views/subs is helpful to prospective youtubers, letting them make wise decisions about whether they pursue that path or do something else with their time (it will probably dissuade more than it will encourage, but that's a good thing if in aggregate people are making sounder career decisions).

Re:My YouTube Earnings by jesuscript on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @03:42AM (#34229289)
I immediately noticed a dark dynamic based on the analytics. Lucky for OP, they are making Lego videos. However, if you are in the business of selling your opinion or sexuality, and you start to see that people click on certain hot takes or less-clothes on, you will start to morph to cater to that traffic. I wonder how this destroys a person (the greed).

Totally taking the convo in the darker direction, but you can see this dynamic in play with Rogan‘s podcast. He’s a liberal, but those hot button right wing takes are probably what brings in the clicks. Every trans critique he makes caters to that traffic, so he milks that audience often.

What does one become when you effectively sell out to the analytics?

Your thoughts and perspective are no longer driven by your convictions or experience, but by this shit.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by ffmpegy on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @04:36AM (#34229601)
Performing artists have for centuries had to balance catering for popular opinion and tastes versus a more faithful realisation of their vision in order to make a living. I don't see a difference with this at all.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by Nevermark on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @07:16AM (#34230525)
For online creators, I think the high speed and frequency of material creation, release, consumption and feedback, coupled with vast potential audiences, global competition for the nichiest of niches, the ease of copying ideas, and the extremely high rewards and margins for the winners, … is unlike anything that ever came before.

These are many large quantitative changes, that are going to have qualitative implications.

For instance, given the small scale of each offering, post, etc., most creators won’t have developed deeply held individual visions to be compromised with a focus on adapting

Re:My YouTube Earnings by johannes1234321 on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @07:56AM (#34230776)
Especially as due to lower cycles you typically created larger units of work: Not just a song, but an album. Not just a poem but a book. So you could do the popular part and also the thing you care about and somehow tie them together.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by amake on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @04:04AM (#34229427)
> He’s a liberal

Is he?

Re:My YouTube Earnings by a4a4a4a4 on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @04:30AM (#34229560)
"Liberal" in the US used to mean (and still does outside the US) someone with a "live and let live" mentality, where things/actions are generally allowed unless there is a very good reason for restricting them. "Classically liberal" is a better match for the term in modern US English. So things like decriminalizing drugs, allowing gay marriage, being pro-gun/self-defense as a human right, privacy as a human right, etc, all fall under "classically liberal". It might help to read the word "liberal" in a philosophical sense, where it means "liberally applying the idea of freedom for everyone, only restricting that freedom where absolutely necessary, where one persons freedom begins to infringe on the liberty of others".
Re:My YouTube Earnings by Uehreka on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @04:55AM (#34229711)
Joe Rogan is an American commenting almost exclusively in the American political context. Referring to him as a liberal in this context is misleading, as the term here is almost exclusively understood to mean “center-left relative to American politics” and is almost never used in the economic or philosophical sense in mainstream political commentary.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by a4a4a4a4 on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @05:00AM (#34229742)
I'm aware of who he is, and the context of "liberal" when referring to him and his views. I'm offering an explanation as to why someone might describe him as "liberal", because if anyone outside the US listened to his viewpoints they would describe him as "liberal". I'd be willing to bet that the original commenter is not American, and that's why they chose "liberal", not to be misleading, but because literally the entire rest of the world uses the word differently.

"USA: the primary use of the term liberal is at some variance with European and worldwide usage. In the United States today, it is most associated with the definition of modern liberalism, which is a combination of social liberalism, public welfare and a mixed economy,[12] which is in contrast to classical liberalism."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_parties_by_country#The...

Re:My YouTube Earnings by richrichardsson on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @05:24AM (#34229861)
> because literally the entire rest of the world uses the word differently

This assumed cultural hegemony by some US citizens is frustrating as hell; they are incredibly quick to assume (or demand even) the rest of the world knows their cultural references/idioms/etc., yet make zero effort to discover what the rest of the world is doing. Unfortunately they are also loud and so it's easy to come to the false conclusion all US citizens are like that.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by ljf on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @05:34AM (#34229910)
I'm a Brit, I would no think of Joe as a liberal, and I only read this thread as I was so shocked to hear he might be a left leaning commentator. Obviously reading this, he is not.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by richrichardsson on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @05:44AM (#34229961)
I'm also a Brit, and to be honest, the term "liberal" in a political context has lost all meaning for me since everyone seems to have their own definition of what it actually entails.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by jjgreen on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @10:51AM (#34232980)
I blame Jeremy Thorpe
Re:My YouTube Earnings by minton on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @11:02AM (#34233141)
This seems to be the case for a lot of words these days.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by Veen on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @07:03AM (#34230437)
That exemplifies the cultural hegemony. In the UK, liberals historically stood for laissez-faire economics and minimal government intervention (among other things). Before the rise of the Labour Party, the main second party in the UK was the Liberal Party, which supported laissez-faire capitalism, in contrast to the Tories of the day, who tended to oppose free market capitalism and support paternalistic social and economic programs that benefited the nation as a whole, not just the rich (obviously that's changed—classic liberals now dominate the Tory Party). Lots of people still use liberal in this way (classically liberal), but the meaning has gradually changed under the influence of the US, so many people are unaware that liberal could mean anything but vaguely left-leaning and progressive.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by tsimionescu on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @05:05AM (#34229768)
People usually call Rogan liberal because he occasionally showed(s?) some sympathy for the US left - like him inviting Bernie Sanders on during his primary campaign. I think this is far more likely than applying a non-US definition of liberalism to him - especially since many right-wingers the GGP is referring to are also liberal based on this other definition.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by skinnymuch on Thursday January 05, 2023 @02:43AM (#34257109)
Yeah because many GOP members are liberals. The entire world has a definition for a word. Following that definition which has been the definition for many many years makes sense.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by lynx23 on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @05:33AM (#34229904)
> only restricting that freedom where absolutely necessary

I used to believe this as well. I was thaught a lesson... In fact, now I understand that liberals, when given the power, will corrupt into totalitarism in a few months.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by a4a4a4a4 on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @05:55AM (#34230015)
Agreed with you on "modern liberalism" devolving into totalitarianism. "Classical liberalism" doesn't allow for that though. In practice, I don't think anyone in the US follows the latter strictly enough for prevent the same decay anyway though.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by overrun11 on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @11:40AM (#34233782)
You might find "Why Liberalism Failed" by Patrick Deneen interesting if you haven't read it already. He argues that modern liberalism is the inevitable successor to classical liberalism.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by webmobdev on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @06:22AM (#34230193)
Can you give some examples of that because I didn't get your point?
Re:My YouTube Earnings by majani on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @08:52AM (#34231276)
For example outright confiscation of wealth above $100m is quite a popular sentiment amongst liberals right now
Re:My YouTube Earnings by SketchySeaBeast on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @09:14AM (#34231528)
The original claim was:

> liberals, when given the power, will corrupt into totalitarism in a few months.

Is your complaint an actual example of that? I've never actually heard the argument - I've heard "billionaires should not exist", but never "we should have a 100% tax on those making more than $100m", so I don't know if the claim you're making is as popular as you're making it out to be, nor do I believe is it an example of totalitarianism.

I also don't see actual examples of liberal governments doing that. People say lots of crazy stuff online, but "liberals say the darndest thing" is not the claim here.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by overrun11 on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @11:46AM (#34233892)
> nor do I believe is it an example of totalitarianism

These conversations never go anywhere. The battlelines are already drawn. It just becomes a semantic debate around loosely defined terms like totalitarianism.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by SketchySeaBeast on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @12:21PM (#34234449)
Yeah, fair enough. It's become synonymous with "something I don't like".
Re:My YouTube Earnings by Eisenstein on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @08:29AM (#34231028)
What made you understand that?
Re:My YouTube Earnings by lynx23 on Tuesday January 10, 2023 @01:05AM (#34321104)
Corona and the way how the left/right have handled it. Before corona, I used to vote leftish. Now, I no longer vote.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by majani on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @07:39AM (#34230663)
Liberal = social freedoms + economic restrictions

Republican = social restrictions + economic freedoms

Re:My YouTube Earnings by a4a4a4a4 on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @08:34AM (#34231081)
... in the US.

"Classical liberalism, contrary to liberal branches like social liberalism, looks more negatively on social policies, taxation and the state involvement in the lives of individuals, and it advocates deregulation.[10] Until the Great Depression and the rise of social liberalism, it was used under the name of economic liberalism. As a term, classical liberalism was applied in retronym to distinguish earlier 19th-century liberalism from social liberalism.[11] By modern standards, in the United States, simple liberalism often means social liberalism, but in Europe and Australia, simple liberalism often means classical liberalism.[12][13]

...

In the United States, classical liberalism may be described as "fiscally conservative" and "socially liberal". Despite this context, classical liberalism rejects conservatism's higher tolerance for protectionism and social liberalism's inclination for collective group rights, due to classical liberalism's central principle of individualism.[14] Classical liberalism is also considered closely tied with right-libertarianism in the United States.[15] In Europe, liberalism, whether social (especially radical) or conservative, is classical liberalism in itself, so the term classical liberalism mainly refers to centre-right economic liberalism.[16]

"

"Liberal" in the US -> some social freedoms, but restricted in certain ways + economic restrictions.

"Liberal" outside the US -> social freedoms + economic freedoms.

I learned this as an American abroad when someone called me, who would generally be seen as conservative / libertarian in the US, "very liberal" when discussing gay rights (pro), gun rights / armed self-defense (pro), and abortion rights (pro-choice).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

Re:My YouTube Earnings by lsaferite on Wednesday January 04, 2023 @12:15PM (#34248397)
> me, who would generally be seen as conservative / libertarian in the US, "very liberal" when discussing gay rights (pro), gun rights / armed self-defense (pro), and abortion rights (pro-choice)

Supporting gay rights and being pro-choice is seen as conservative??

Re:My YouTube Earnings by a4a4a4a4 on Thursday January 05, 2023 @04:02AM (#34257587)
It's usually the gun rights that makes people immediate label me as conservative, regardless of other views I have.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by markdestouches on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @04:37AM (#34229605)
These tags are useless and have always been.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by texasbigdata on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @05:41AM (#34229947)
He’s had (guessing, including multi guest, and the mma pieces) close to 2,000 guests, and probably has spoken about trans a maximum of 5 times? Call it 1%. That’s probably at (or maybe below) main stream medias coverage of the topic but that’s a wild guess.

It’s probably either: how he speaks, his takes in general, how others view him, how others reamplify him, or something else, but I really doubt he’s beating the drum on transgender rights since he’s he seems to in favor of all socially liberal topics in general.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by thatguy0900 on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @06:31AM (#34230247)
I went to one of his stand-up shows last year. Both him and the guys he had opening all had maybe 30% trans jokes. He's definetely catering to an antitrans crowd these days
Re:My YouTube Earnings by pcblues on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @01:13PM (#34235318)
I wonder how many in the crowd are reacting to being labelled antitrans and transphobic unfairly. It's definitely what I see the comedians reacting to.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by thatguy0900 on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @01:21PM (#34235462)
Definitely some of that. I think a person should have the right to do whatever they want with themselves, and it's not mine or the states business. I'm sure others in the crowd felt the same way. I can see why people would have issues with the routine he put on though, it was certainly not a kind one, and saying he just has a few instances of bringing up trans issues seems like a outright lie.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by cableshaft on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @08:49AM (#34231247)
I don't watch Rogan a whole lot nowadays (used to regularly before the Spotify purchase), but back when I did he spoke about Trans people (especially atheletes) way more than 5 times. It wasn't constantly, though, although it did seem like he wormed it in a few times where it wasn't really called for (to be fair he does that for several of his interests, hence the "Have you ever tried DMT?" meme[1]). And that was before he started bringing more alt-right guests on the show.

To me it was clear he had an axe to grind in regards to the subject, though, and took out that axe out semi-regularly.

[1]: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/thats-crazy-man-have-you-ever...

Re:My YouTube Earnings by jesuscript on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @09:30AM (#34231730)
Yeah, it’s way more than 5. I’m fan of his, and I’ve listened to everything.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by hunfell on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @08:12AM (#34230895)
His trans critiques are very reasonable though, particularly when he talks about males in women's sports, males in women's prisons, and the social contagion aspect of this type of identity.

These are the questions that cut across the entire political spectrum, as there are plenty on the left questioning the excesses of this activist movement too.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by jesuscript on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @11:28AM (#34233573)
Depends.

I agree they are reasonable, but it’s kind of like a cock tease dog whistle (maybe a less crude way to put it is a feint dog whistle).

If you take a Kanye, and he says ‘I love Hitler’, that’s a blow horn. But if you say, ‘There are a lot of Jews in Hollywood, and look at all that stuff that’s going on in Palestine’, now we’re angling. Everything you are saying is reasonable, but you are reconnoitering around the rim of a specific demographic.

I guess the question is, is this subtle play going past you, or are you letting it get a pass?

He’s keeping one foot in the ring because it’s a pragmatic way of acknowledging the existence of those viewpoints.

I’m not saying black people commit a lot of crime, but look at this shoplifting video. Proceeds to show black people looting. We need to do something about crime.

There are ways to hold that audience without being an outright demagogue.

I like Rogan, but this manipulation in the interest of holding that broader audience smells a little. Integrity is the word I guess.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by DwnVoteHoneyPot on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @11:40AM (#34233802)
> What does one become when you effectively sell out to the analytics?

We know what happens... you get Mr. Beast. He's known for hyper optimizing the metrics. Watch one of his interviews. His Joe Rogan interview was an eye opener.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by adalacelove on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @04:17AM (#34229503)
> I wonder how much other information exists on the web that is extremely valuable yet unnoticed

Basically every scientific progress which gets published on peer reviewed journals (a lot of them open). Some books also are online.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by amelius on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @05:10AM (#34229787)
They are not exactly what one would call unnoticed.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by moffkalast on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @06:10AM (#34230111)
They only get noticed by the general public once some media person sees it, misunderstands the point, gives it a clickbaity title and sells it for clicks.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by chakkepolja on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @06:56AM (#34230392)
Doesn't comr up in Google search when I need it, so.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by randomluck040 on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @07:24AM (#34230571)
I‘d wager that the general public can’t name three scientific journals on average. In Germany COV19 sure helped to get some insights from public persons regarding pre print and review processes. However, even friends that have done their Bachelors don’t know too much about publishing. It basically begins with your own career in academia that you know how journals and academic publishing „works“ but outside of that no one really cares.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by philippejara on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @10:34AM (#34232722)
The vast majority of published scientific progress is completely devoid of value outside their specific field of study, and those in their specific field of study know where to look for it and are(?) giving its due value.

If anything I'd prefer less interest of the general public on specific papers because the way it ends up is with people misunderstanding it to fit whatever the journalist/redditor that peddled it wanted it to mean, maliciously or not.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by dalbasal on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @07:47AM (#34230710)
RE: valuable yet unnoticed

This issue, in this case, is information dispersal. This sort of information is highly analyzed, almost certainly, by google/youtube. They have all the data, so there's a lot more you can get out of analyzing it.

If ever channel's youtube data was released to the public like this, there would be a lot more notice.

Transparency doesn't just need to overcome secrecy, they need to overcome obscurity.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by ghaff on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @09:57AM (#34232134)
One data point from a successful YouTuber is interesting but I'm not sure about the extremely valuable part. If anything, it probably leads to a lot of people thinking they can make >$100K/year making YouTube videos and they almost certainly won't.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by philippejara on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @10:02AM (#34232211)
I'd say its the opposite, you're talking about a channel that gets 10M views average per video while being kid friendly and targeting probably the audience with the most spending power(middle aged males in the US), you'd think they'd make far more than 100k/year.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by ghaff on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @10:11AM (#34232319)
Fair enough. Although I think a lot of people outside much of the HN demographic would consider making $100K/year from YouTube videos a pretty good deal. That's probably more than a lot of documentary film makers bring in. So I'm not sure how many would takeaway "Crap. This guy's pretty darned successful by YouTube standards and he's still just bringing in a fairly modest income--with no benefits etc."
Re:My YouTube Earnings by philippejara on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @10:30AM (#34232634)
I think most people, ignoring the specifics, would consider making 100k/y from youtube a pretty good deal, but well there's the specifics. Let's not kid ourselves 100k/y is not a modest income, but surely he should be the example of the guy that would get rich off of it, lego's mr.beast or whatever.

At the end of the day there's already huge amounts of youtubers showing their mansions or whatever to influence the gullible viewers, the ones who would miss the nuance of his situation would most likely fall for them anyway. There's already an abundance of blatant "false hope" being peddled far harder and wider, the chance of his objective analysis being misinterpreted by people is as far as i'm concerned insignificant.

Re:My YouTube Earnings by city41 on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @10:50AM (#34232960)
I would also love to hear from a channel that does sponsorships, patreon, etc. Seems this channel almost exclusively does YouTube ad revenue.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by lefstathiou on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @10:58AM (#34233090)
The data makes sense to me but not the interpretation. My 2.5yo son loves watching Lego assembly videos on Youtube during his TV time, which is of course tied to my account, which therefore means I contribute to his middle aged male statistic. Perhaps I am having a tough time empathizing but I find it hard to believe droves of men my age are watching Lego assembly videos in the background.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by joshmlewis on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @11:01AM (#34233132)
I was thinking exactly this. How many of that demographic are actually playing it for kids using their account? But I also know it is a very popular hobby for some people. My brother started a lego city group on Facebook and it exploded totally organically to tens of thousands of members. He was shocked!
Re:My YouTube Earnings by philippejara on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @11:47AM (#34233910)
You'd be surprised, I myself know several and I have no interest in the hobby to be adjacent to their circles. Anecdotally it seems like MLP all over again, but even more skewed to the adult demographic, which does make a lot more sense to me than MLP at least.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by anigbrowl on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @01:34PM (#34235720)
It's valuable in the sense of giving some sort of feedback. The way many streaming services compensate people lacks any transparency and is basically making them compete to generate product blindly.
Re:My YouTube Earnings by PhilosAccnting on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @08:10PM (#34240534)
I like to think that most of the valuable information is generally unnoticed. Most of the things I make are very valuable to the people who want it, but any one of those things are pretty useless to the majority of people who would find it.

A huge part of the phenomenon comes through how fashions form. Hype collects around emotionally-charged things. By their very nature, their spectacle is compromising some of the sincerity and value to maximize reach. The spotlight is power, and power corrupts.

HN is a perfect example of this: looks like a chat forum from 1998, but is very much current and edgy with the cool kids.