Too many people are sufficiently dirty that it can easily cause pest issues, as well as other damages.
But if a hotel starts letting people stay weeks without checking their room, they will inevitably end up with hoarders and people that keep food lying around and then comes cockroaches and rats and odors, etc.
The keyword here is "should". I don't have much faith that hotels will actually do this.
Source: a close friend works at a really bad hotel.
The people losing their minds and screaming at him is what happens when something else that isn't quite to their satisfaction happens. Like, say, the hotel requiring a deposit and a major credit card and ID to book a room.
Yet I think people regularly stay for weeks with Airbnb/Vrbo without any host inspection or cleaning. I agree with your conclusion (filthy guests who stay weeks invite pest problems) ... so if the big bad old hotel industry needs to market their advantages, maybe there's an Institutuionally Clean angle.
But if you’re not as wealthy, saving money might be more valuable to you than having a room cleaned daily, or having a really nice tv, or a great mattress, etc.
Regulation involves a group of people picking one point on a trade off curve for everyone. Branding and reputation systems allow for multiple different spots on that reputation curve.
The problem is that without regulation there is little incentive for business to be honest about the quality of service you're getting. It becomes a race to the bottom as they charge premium prices for cut-rate quality. It's hard for people to take your business elsewhere when you need a place to sleep and arrive late at night to a room that isn't what you expect. They just have to make their dispute process hard enough to keep customer money.
And if you day that's fraud, sure it is, but fraud is only something you can charge a business with because of regulation.
IMO regulation isn't perfect, but we should aim to fix it instead of throwing it out the window entirely
I think this is actually how most people end up deciding to take their business elsewhere: they give a company their business once, are let down, and decide to never patronize that business or chain again. This is why customer recommendations and reviews hold weight at all -- they help give signal before your first business interaction.
> but fraud is only something you can charge a business with because of regulation.
I don't think almost anyone is in favor of no regulation, only the prescriptive step-by-step guideline regulations. If a hotel says "we have beds!" and then they don't have beds, that's a very different regulatory case than a hotel saying "our bed are comfortable!" and then their beds are not comfortable.
And perhaps saving money might be even more valuable to you than <what you wrote above, but every "or" being progressively replaced with an "and">!
> Regulation involves a group of people picking one point on a trade off curve for everyone. Branding and reputation systems allow for multiple different spots on that reputation curve.
Yes, but that "one point on a trade off curve for everyone" works as a backstop against inevitable slide downwards. If globalization of trade and e-commerce taught us anything, reputation systems are trivially gamed, most branding exists primarily to fool people who still think it means something into spending more for less.
Even without talking about potential fraud, market competition naturally turns into race to the bottom. Regulation is what sets that bottom higher than "absolute worst possible before the market segment self-destructs".
If that isn’t regulatory capture? I don’t know what is
Force people to spend X00,000$/car to enter a market and then let ride-shares ignore that requirement that’s going to push all these companies to bankruptcy simply because the newcomers don’t have to pay interest on these loans.
In practice, you can assume they do - it's a simplified but accurate model of reality when you're not researching the life of insects and rodents.
Yes, life does not appear "out of thin air", but it constantly tries to get in, will exploit any crack in your defenses or attention to chase after anything that looks or smells like food or safety. It's simpler to just assume annoying critters materialize out of thin air if you leave the right conditions, and ensure those conditions are never present.
It's kind of like thermodynamics / statistical physics: the air around you doesn't really have "pressure" or "temperature", but you may just as well assume they're a thing, since the alternative would be to talk about kinematics of air molecules.
We had no mouse problems that winter, and very few since then.
I see that as realistic, if we are talking 2D spaces. In urban environments, they live in sewers, and you have sewers under every building. In the countryside, they obviously live everywhere.
I can see that 6-metres rule broken only if going 3D, i.e. in multi-storey buildings with spotless maintenance of any nook and cranny, living on the third or fourth floor, you might be a bit further away than that.
'Should be' yes, but you'd be surprised how many don't follow through on this, and not necessarily due to lack of policy. Cleaning staff have very tight schedules, being allocated only a few minutes to completely clean and setup the room for the new guest but if the old guest didn't follow through on the exact checkout time, then that throws of the schedule of the cleaning staff completely, meaning they often cut corners to meet their deadlines.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/las-vegas-shooting-hotels-revis...
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/las-vegas-shooting-settlement-m...
> Jim Frantz, whose San Diego-based law firm represents another 199 victims including Romo, said Thursday's settlement is a good first step. Now MGM must strengthen the security protocol at all their facilities, he said.
>"I would assume a responsible business, after going through something like this, would institute the highest level of security," Frantz said, adding that the company should add metal detectors and Navy SEAL-type security guards. "As long as we have automatic weapons, we've got to be on high alert with all our security."
I guess it could be called a decrepit spiral of associative risk management.
It’s not every terrorists goal to walk away from their event.
Anyway, it’s no more a risk than guns or water on planes since it hasn’t happened yet; but among this security circus, it’s hypocritical to ban water and not li-ion batteries.
I think you mean flammable.
find an Android vulnerability and make several phones burn at the same time
I don't think exists.
That doesn't matter here. Clothes might be flammable, but are not volatile enough to be labeled inflammable.
Inflammable and flammable are both adjectives that mean "easily set on fire". They have slightly different etymologies. In the case of inflammable, in- means "into" and is not a negation.
Great if you like paranoia. I guess I am not going to Vegas.
But you don't, really. They're all antiques.
And fully automatic (but illegal) weapons are easily available in the form of Glock auto sears https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkp8p8/glock-switches-auto-s... my buddy in Baltimore heard on of these being shot in his Baltimore neighborhood a few weeks back.
In terms of illegal weapons, yes. There are illegal fully automatic weapons in the US without taking your example into account. I'm talking about what's legal.
Back to my original point, it's still wrong to say this will happen while we have automatic weapons. Why perpetuate a lie?
‘In the 2017 Las Vegas shooting, twelve bump stocks were found at the scene.[7] The National Rifle Association stated on October 5, 2017, "Devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations"’ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bump_stock#Federal
Then the lawyer should say "we should ban bump stocks" instead of perpetuating the lie that automatic weapons are prevalent in the US.
I'm not a gun person at all, but I really despise manipulative language in media. That's why I'm harping on.
Secondly hotels inside of casinos both outside of and including the strip will regularly clean rooms. They also have regular pest control services, as the rooms are high traffic and constantly occupied.
This has always been an option. Put the DND on your door.
Oh Mother of God.
I 100% prefer the human interaction. Why? Well, after 15 years of travelling worldwide, ever tried to solve some fuckups, like delayed / lost baggage involving 3 countries? No? Ofc not, most SW / IT guys (btw i am one!) couldn't comprehend something going wrong outside a "perfectly designed" process. Never ever.
Get some real-world experience man, and off your high horse.
Not just Las Vegas hotels. Any hotel (Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott, etc.) that have apps that support digital keys via Bluetooth already have this.
I still like to check in at the counter though if it looks like it isn't too busy. I have elite status at these hotels, and they typically hand out free cookies or water at the counter, and I occasionally get a free discretionary room upgrade on the spot.
Hotels.com might not be a supported OTA however, since they are a consolidator. You can't even get HHonors points with hotels.com.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hilton-hilton-honors/1887120...
But you're right. There's no particular disadvantage to me booking Marriott through Amex than directly other than an (expensed) booking fee for work travel.
In the case of Hilton, that can be worth from 24% to 38% back in loyalty points per dollar spent.
When Hilton isn’t running a special, I get 34 points per dollar at around .7 cents per point:
- 10x base points
- 10x Diamond bonus (automatic for having the Amex Hilton Aspire)
- 14x Amex Hilton Aspire card
But Hilton ran a 3x special May through September (54x total) and now they are running a 2x special (44x) through March 2023.
The other advantage from booking directly is that it’s easier to change or modify a booking.
> There's no particular disadvantage to me booking Marriott through Amex
There is a big difference between booking through Concur and booking through the Amex portal.
Your company pays the booking fee instead of the hotel. On that case, you’re probably directly charged by the hotel and Egencia charges the company/end user the fee.
The reservation systems are setup so that the pricing that goes out to priceline and Expedia is higher than what is on the hotel brand’s website.
https://www.marriott.com/look/claimForm.mi
https://www.hyatt.com/info/best-rate-guarantee
https://www.hilton.com/en/p/price-match-guarantee/
https://www.ihg.com/content/us/en/customer-care/best-price-g...
https://www.choicehotels.com/deals/best-rate
https://www.wyndhamhotels.com/hotel-deals/best-rate-guarante...
It’s always worked pretty well for me, tbh.
They don’t like it when you book through a travel agent, but they really have a love/hate opinion when you book an express/mystery deal
It is unusual to be willing to gamble on which hotel one is reserving in exchange for an uncertain amount of savings.
That said I would book direct from Hilton but every time I do they only allow pay later which in certain currencies, I'd rather not risk (Looking at Japan right now). I'd rather pay now and lock in the rate.
I have never been able to find an Expedia/Priceline price that is lower than the Hyatt/Hilton/Marriott/IHG/etc rewards member price. And being a rewards member is free, so effectively you get cheaper prices directly.
I also do not see how it would be technically possible. The hotel brands’ reservations systems are surely set to offer a discounted price on their own website than they send out to Expedia/Booking.
> they only allow pay later which in certain currencies, I'd rather not risk (Looking at Japan right now). I'd rather pay now and lock in the rate.
Hiltons are usually individually owned and managed. I would try emailing the front desk and see if they will accept a prepayment from you. I was able to prepay a Hilton in Hawaii earlier this year by contacting the front desk.
The hotel owner/management sets the price, or the automating rate setting programming sets the price based on its parameters and shop of other hotels in the “comp set” (competing hotels in the area). This rate is the “best available rate” (BAR) or “best flexible rate” (BFR), and there may be a prepaid non refundable discount rate option too.
The OTAs then get this pricing information via the central reservation system and then either sell a reservation where the guest pays the OTA the BFR, and the OTA pays the hotel 85% (typically). Or the OTA offers the guest to pay the the hotel directly, in which case the hotel pays the OTA 15% commission.
Either way, it is all very automated, and there is no specific negotiated pricing. But the big brands will typically offer 2% to 6% or so discount (depending on how much hotel management wants to do) on their BFR/BAR pricing as a “rewards member” discount, as a way to avoid paying 15% to Expedia/Booking.
Restricting it to rewards members avoids the hotel from violating any agreement with the online travel agent that they also get the same BFR/BAR as everyone else.
Its not a real option for most people who value their time, and thats by design.
Note that it is free to be a member of a hotel rewards programs, and requires giving the hotel brand no additional information, so the rewards member price is the effective price for a hotel brand.
You can also reject contact and photos permissions to apps. None of the hotel apps have asked me for these.
I wouldn't go to lengths avoiding installation (just remember to uninstall if it really bothers you), but I'd prefer a purely web based implementation. How about clearing arbitrary NFC UID for access? (From a self-serve counter if taking humans out of the equation is so much of a goal) The credit card form factor is certainly not inconvenient at all, but dealing with them can still be surprisingly annoying when that happens to coincide with oddities from the very long tail of luggage situations.
And how is installing the Hilton app going to allow another app to find out information about you?
> And how is installing the Hilton app going to allow another app to find out information about you?
Both apps rat out whatever they have on you to a data broker which then does the matching.
Maybe they won't upload the list of my installed apps (which can leak information like religion or medical issues), maybe they won't track my location through the entire hotel (or everywhere), maybe they won't snoop on my pictures... but maybe they also will, and I don't like maybe.
Almost certainly I'll have to agree to lengthy ToS that will then be used as justification to inundate me with spam.
The Android permission model is particularly messed up because it changes every few SDK target versions, so it's hard to build a mental model what exactly you're allowing. Many apps that had a built-in photo-taking capability required storage access and wouldn't work without. Any app using bluetooth had to request and be granted location access (because Bluetooth could be used to track location... so any app acting as a key automatically also got to track you via GPS on top of that, and even if the app maker didn't want to they had to request the permission for Bluetooth to work).
I've seen too many companies pushing their apps aggressively and with massive rewards. They're clearly getting something out of it, and probably not something I want to give them. If you're very, very lucky, the main goal is only to make them more "sticky" (make it easier to use them over someone else next time), but that's the thing - I don't want past service providers to stick to me.
I’m asking about iOS. If you have an Android device - using an operating system written by an ad tech company, the Hilton app is the last thing you should worry about.
Instead of being hand wavy, what exactly do you think an analytics SDK can “exfiltrate* from your phone outside of the app sandbox without your explicit permission?
> Maybe they won't upload the list of my installed apps (which can leak information like religion or medical issues),
Not possible with iOS. There was a loophole that Twitter used where they would try to send a message to another app. But Apple closed that a few versions ago.
> Almost certainly I'll have to agree to lengthy ToS that will then be used as justification to inundate me with spam
You mean the same TOS you have to sign when booking from their website? But I use the built in “Hide My Email” feature on iOS and give each app/website that I don’t care about a separate email that gets forwarded to my main email address.
> “ The Android permission model is particularly messed up because it changes every few SDK target versions, so it's hard to build a mental model what exactly you're allowing
“I care about my privacy yet I use an operating system with a poor permission model written by an adTech company”
It is all done outside of the apps process. iOS sends the message on the apps behalf to the other app.
There is no option to share your contact with the app.
When I travel, and in the App I provide my Work address and contact info, not my personal info
When checking in at the desk they take my government ID, often scan it into go knows what system or what security, and then replace my Work info with my personal address in their systems
No thank you, I will take the app instead
Makes me wonder how this works when you use digital check-in.
It's true in Europe they often copy your license and, in some countries, I believe there's some registration with the police that the hotel handles.
I do not want a lot of apps on my phone, and I do not want to install something just for one trip.
When you leave you just throw the key card into a box or feed it back into the machine.
No smartphone necessary.
I know this is OT: But I am tired of every business I go to bugging me to use their app for everything. I don't want another app to keep track of, and I do not want to get texts all the time.
If I remember correctly one of my hotels I used sent me a pin code or such via email and then they had a self service to get a keycard, which used the pin code.
Parking in my town is largely paid for via an APP — which is frustrating for somebody not using a mobile phone. The coin-accepting meters are rapidly disappearing.
I have seen this attitude at more and more people, where does it come from? Meaning not wanting to talk with other people. It's what makes us humans, talking with other people. The alternative is lots and lots of money paid on psychotherapy and the like further down the road, or worse.
Because actively avoiding talking to other people it's like bringing your car for regular checkups every 100k miles instead of ~15-20k miles, which will of course irremediably damage it.
Talking to someone about checking in for a hotel room, after waiting for 10 minutes in a check in line...is not what I would call a fulfilling experience. Communication does not make us human, plenty of other species communicate...there are far more intricate and unique things that make us what we are.
You're equating someone's wish to not have to wait at a check out counter to being anti-social...come on.
Yes, 10 minutes waiting in a hotel lobby, which is by definition a societal space, is, well, social. Actively wanting go avoid that is, well, anti-social.
Anyway, it's a losing battle at this point.
Ah the epitome of social interactions. An underpaid and overworked service worker mis-hears my name, pretends to not find me in the system then gives me a card. Well worth queuing for!
But you know it is a must, since if I continue the conversation with my travel companion uninterrupted all the way to our room then I am actively tearing apart the fabric of society.
> Anyway, it's a losing battle at this point.
Battle? Why do you care how others choose to live their life this much? Are they hurting you?
> ince if I continue the conversation with my travel companion uninterrupted all the way to our room then I am actively tearing apart the fabric of society.
Yes, the social norms (of the past, at this point) say that you should interrupt the discussion with your travel companion and engage with the person from the other side of the counter (the hotel receptionist in this case).
I love parties, deep conversations, etc. but as an introverted person, a day of excessive unnecessary interaction makes those interactions I do enjoy no longer enjoyable, and just a chore. By managing my social energy I am able to be a warm, friendly, and outgoing social person. If you met me at a party you probably would not guess that I’m introverted, because I am not antisocial.
Here in Japan, it's entirely different. Customer service people are always polite, so it's always pleasant dealing with them, though westerners frequently complain that such people here aren't "chatty" like Americans; instead they're really efficient and don't waste peoples' time with chit-chat (which in America, frequently seems to result in making people wait longer unless there's only one customer). But I also don't see the segregation in society that I saw in America.
However it's nice to do things on your own sometimes. For example I love McDonalds self-checkout because it speaks my language everywhere on the planet, and gives me all the time I need to prepare my order.
On the other, automation concentrates wealth in the pockets of those who finance it. Automated checkout machines do not benefit fast food workers, only investors. What happens when you automate a third or a half of the workforce like that?
I hope that we can share the spoils of all this innovation, because the future will be very bleak otherwise.
I fly in. Click on the hotel address on the Hilton app that takes me to Apple Maps and get an Uber to the hotel through Maps. On the ride to the hotel, I do the digital check in, request my digital key and walk directly to the room.
I’m going to be talking to people all day the next day.
Really? That is your position?
Yes, that is my position. Why wouldn't it be? Society is formed of all people, not only acquaintances and friends. Yes, including the hotel receptionist.
> whereby if I do not have it I would need to seek mental health treatment
Yes, when people were not treating people such as hotel receptionists like the other that is not worthy of our attention then we were doing way better on the mental health front.
You can do that with literally any Hilton hotel anywhere in the country whether it’s a Waldorf or Home2Suites or a Tru. You can share your digital key with up to 4 people.
Marriot is starting that program as well
Soo much nicer
I don't mind hotel check-ins but the car rental process has never, ever been pleasant for me.
But people forgot the reason why.
The one and only time I stayed in such a place - an intruder was caught entering my room and diddling with a phone I left there - and he only got caught because I happened to double back to get something, and just happened to do so while he was in there.
Never again. And the best part about staffed hotels? "I never have to use my phone, if I don't want to."
I also select the option not to have my room cleaned each day. I’ll ask someone in the hall for towels if I stay long enough to need them. I’ve wondered if this is easier or harder for them. I try to keep my trash well organized and otherwise make it as easy as I can on the staff after I leave.