Note : you must create this collection on firefox addon or find existing one as you will need the collection ID.

ublock and the other featured apps essentially had to adapt to the mobile firefox way of doing stuff and opening settings in a separate mobile ff tab etc.

I know you are most likely referring to Play services, but still worth noting for folks who may not know it exists as an option. I suppose for the latter, microG may offer a useful option.

(then take a look at youtube vanced)

I'm able to use all the standard apps (Uber, games, etc) without a Google account. I use Aurora instead of the Google Play Store, local maps as my GPS back-end, and my phone only contains the apps I actually used instead of pre-baked vendor bullshit. It's all super smooth and completely stable. I really can't say enough nice things about it.

If you're looking for the third option, I would really give aftermarket android roms a try.

Pretty sure that's a non-starter for anyone who needs to use their phone for work, which is more people than you would think now that so many office workers are remote.

Still sucks of course, but a far cry from the false dichotomy of "submit to Apple/Google rule or lose your job."

The point is that you shouldn't need to jump through flaming hoops to avoid Google's spying

I don't understand why that's not possible now. Responsive websites are basically 1:1 in functionality w/ desktop, there is no need to have separate, gimped "m.bank.com" sites anymore.

End result of this is that I stopped doing banking on my phone, and 90% of my use cases are now served by F-Droid or by apps not on the Play store.

Now we're all crying for a third platform because Apple is too restrictive and Google, surprise (to no one least of all WP users), turned out to be evil and I feel absolutely no sympathy for the tech community, particularly developers who decry the current paradigm. We chose this.

I don't disagree that having a third player in the space would improve things, but it is just weird how the perception of some companies change.

Half of the magic of Linux is being able to run it on bare metal. Microsoft is acting against that.

I agree with your bare metal magic point, but I also like using a GUI. As well as being middle aged I also grew up in a technological backwater. So the first arcade game I encountered was Pong and when I was old enough to start working with computers it was with dumb terminals to mainframes and punch-tape print spoolers; that experience of working with technology that was already obsolete is kinda like extra lifespan. Loving the command line is one thing, but i love GUIs precisely because I didn't have access to them early on, and being able to see things on a screen is still magical for me.

I know GUI development is a lot more work, but I've been very disappointed by the snail's pace of advancement on Linux, and how little experimentation or efforts at standardization there are. GNOME these days feels like a clunky kid's toy. My most recent desktop annoyance was installing PyCharm on a a laptop running Ubuntu, and then finding that there was no obvious way to either add it to my start menu or the dock (it's built in Java and launches from a shell script, and though it shows up in the dock when it's running, there's no option to pin it there). It's not that hard (see below) but the fact that I had to go and look for a solution just speaks to how crap and broken the Linux desktop experience is by default.

https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/571135/pycharm-has-...

I take your point that WSL creates a new problem for Linux lovers by invalidating a default use case. And I agree that Microsoft is doing so for its own selfish reasons so it can continue to rake in billions from enterprise and OEM licensing, while the plucky Linux underdogs rely mostly on the generosity of sponsors and community spirit. But there's more to a GUI than a compositing window manager that lets you play with tiling and transparency (the last really innovative and cool thing in Linux Land, and where the idea is still implemented best).

But my counter to that is that desktops matter, and Linux users are just not really trying these days. There re too many options and most of them are just not very good or even interesting. Look up one of those 'Best Linux desktops in 2021' and all you see is a bunch of OK launchers with some beautiful wallpaper, maybe a widget or two. The wallpaper is usually much cooler than the user interface it is decorating. When the packaging is more interesting than the product, the product is failing. the only distro I've seen really trying to innovate in this area is Deepin, a Chinese distro where they have really worked on the front end and is developing its own distinct visual identity.

I just don't get how Linux people go into ecstasies about new way to do graphics in the terminal but then shrug their shoulders at the craptastic state of the Linux desktop. As you correctly point out, Microsoft is now making moves to draw Linux users back to their commercial platform and with their resources, experience, and tenacity may well succeed.

To Linux folk who view that prospect with horror, my advice is make an environment that people like to use. The terminal is not that. The terminal is for nerds, developers, autists, and control freaks, who make up only a small portion of computer users. I match all those categories to varying degrees but even I don't want to spend my whole life in the terminal. And by 'environment people like to use' I do not mean 'imitate Windows' (although you should shamelessly pinch ideas from there). Experiment. Play. You know a great source of user interface ideas that people absolutely like to use and where you can try out wacky ideas? Videogames.

People love games. They are full of eye candy. Videogames use eye candy to rapidly convey information in very intuitive ways. People can rapidly learn to perform very complex tasks when supported by a rich interface. If you don't want desktop Linux to die for lack of attention and you don't want to see Linux-on-your-own-hardware itself die for lack of users (because everything they need is available on Apple, Windows, or in the cloud), make desktop tools that look fun, futuristic, and don't keep forcing people back to the terminal.

I support the EFF, but that’s basically all I know how to do. Imagine if Google’s software developers went on strike every time they tried to pull another AMP on the open web?

Closed platforms are not in the interest of users.

For example, Kickstarter unionized in 2020. One of things that initiated unionization was this lack of democratic decision making at Kickstarter[1]:

> One of the changes that most angered employees was the decision to end Drip, announced in late 2018. Drip was a tool that had been developed to let creators of projects on the site start subscriptions, similar to Patreon, allowing them to build sustainable revenue streams. Eliminating the tool “came out of the blue,” Zhang says, with “no consultation” with employees who were affected. “It seemed to be at the whim of one person to just make a blanket decision,” she adds.

If employees are working on projects that go against their users' interests, democratic decision making can give them a voice that they otherwise wouldn't have.

[1] https://www.wired.com/story/how-kickstarter-employees-formed...

Tell a non-tech person that their data is being harvested by Google and Facebook, and see what they reaction is.

I doubt a non-trivial number of developers (let alone Google Developers) care about things like the "open web".

I don't see how that works. As you see fit? Sounds like you need to start your own company, if that's what you want.

SWE's sold their soul/morals/values for money & built evils that there's no way back from. Just have to deal with the consequences of their actions now.

webOS 6.0 on the LG TV is surprisingly pretty damn good. I think they even opened it up for other TV manufacturers to adopt webOS.

On Android it is locked down in an inaccessible /data partition, unless rooted. (Ignoring /sdcard and the iOS equivalent Files app)

On iOS you can access almost the entire filesystem via extracting iTunes backups. You can freely dig into app internal database, files, message history, etc. You can even edit these backups and restore them, allowing full write access

You know... since 2017 when I started getting wary of Apple due to Qualcomm, IMG and Services Strategy. I sometimes wish Microsoft are still in the Mobile race. Trying find some synergy between Desktop PC gaming, Xbox and Mobile. Surface Phone. Porting some of their work from Xbox.

But unlike Microsoft and Google. Apple has no inherent weakness in their business and strategy. They also have an extremely strong cult following both online and offline.

So unless government managed to do something about it ( which I seriously doubt ), the future will be as frustrating as it is now.

They had: - great song management - better than YouTube song discovery (looking into playlists with the same song) - incredible ui (skins) - small memory footprint

I wonder who worked on that team and what they are up to today. And/or if Microsoft could open source it.

> Choose Apple, get marginally better privacy

I disagree with the word “marginally” here. Compared to Android, it’s far better and keeps staying ahead (while Android may try to catch up for certain features and controls).

If you won't install any apps why bother with a smartphone then?

At least I'm looking for one now because my Nokia E5-03 died yesterday so now I have to figure out what to get.

I want something small, that I can stick in my pocket and not worry about the screen, with days of standby battery life, and where I don't have to read and "agree" to pages of legalese.

In the heyday of feature phones, I could pick one up for $20. Nowadays, those phones are designed for old people, and are more expensive than a cheap smart phone.

[1]: https://lockdownprivacy.com/

On my Android phone I have no google account and I've disabled anything related to google. Yes I worry I've missed something somewhere, but on the whole, at least I can.

I was given an iOS tablet as a gift, tried setting it up and it absoltely requires setting up an account with an apple and giving them a phone number. Haven't found a workaround. So the tablet sits in a box unusable, because I'm not giving apple a phone.

All apps I run use SafariViewController for in-app web browsing, so the same ad blocking systems kick in, too, and the app itself has very limited capabilities to track our web activity. Facebook is sole notable exception.

They also added "App Tracking" prompt recently. I doesn't do much for technical standpoint (like DNT header in browsers), but Apple _can_ enforce it via app publishing restrictions - only if they choose to do so.

I'd say they are very close to Android or desktop macOS.

Yeah, DNS based blockers misses a LOT of ads and webannoyances. And if you think that the content blockers are good enough you probably havent been using youtube lately on safari as they are now able bypass all current content blockers that I tested (adguard[1], 1blocker, wipr).

> ... and are adding support for WebExtensions to Safari in next iOS release.

Yeah, but I'm not holding my breathe that they will allow extensions similar to uBlock and noscript (hope to be wrong).

> I'd say they are very close to Android or desktop macOS.

Anyone with experience using uBlock/NoScript/uMatrix can attest that content blockers on iOS is not close at all, it's just a skeleton of uBlock Origin capabilities.

[1]adguard created a shortcut extension to bypass the content blocker restriction but its utterly annoying to do it everytime some random video.

The Safari WebView restriction means there is no browser choice.

I cannot put any trust in iOS supporting WebExtensions in a meaningful way, given their track record of undermining web technology - but hopefully I will be proven wrong.

The problem is, that some important (e.g. banking) apps are missing and cannot be installed/run with the Android emulator. Another problem is, that Sailfish is available only in very few countries, e.g. not in the US.

The fastest of the open source phones right now has the same processor as the Pixel 2. IIRC it might even be another libhybris implementation (glibc/mesa/gbm userspace on an Android kernel and driver stack).

It's highly likely that even if there's an commercial alternative which gains significant market share to compete with duopoly in the future, they will have to do so by either compromising privacy or ownership of the device.

Solution right now is to make difficult lifestyle choice by using passion or idealistic projects. LineageOS + Fdroid can get things done for those who use their smartphone as an tool and ready to sacrifice a bit of social conformity(which can be a privilege at current times).

There are more extreme alternatives like Linux phones which I hope becomes less extreme in years to come.

The other caveat being that there are still many apps that are not designed for mobile form factor, and while there is strong work on libhandy and many apps use it for responsive GTK apps, there are many great apps were work hasn’t yet started for mobile sizing/touch input/virtual keyboard

What’s the best way to get involved?

Also submitting issues and spreading the word help. Mastodon is where many of the developers in open source world hang out so follow @linmob@fosstodon and Librem folks and you’ll find the community.

Testing, sponsoring, buying the hardware all great options too.

There's the PinePhone. I'm posting from one right now. It's still not super easy to use and non-voip calls/mms are still a bit of a mess.

Here is a "radical" idea: what if we had an Apple users union? What if Apple had to justify their app censorship to that union? What if the union could vote that censorship out?

Our current capitalistic model assumes that competition is the solution for the consumer, but the Apple/Google stranglehold is essentially indisruptable.

Of course, the only way we could really get this union model would be to have it forced by the same government which has repeatedly and increasingly failed to protect the consumer from these bloated monopolistic corporations. I guess we'll have to settle for some optimistic SciFi porn. Paging Cory Doctorow: https://pluralistic.net/

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27280527

When the union says "Ok, Apple isn't cooperating, so everyone... " ...actually, what would you have the members do? Turn off icloud? Stop buying new airpods? You will never get all the "users union" members to give up one atom of convenience.

Saying "people won't do that" is just a self-fulfilling prophecy. Convince them that it's in their interest and they will.

What you really want is a third party app store which is operated as a co-op, supports multiple platforms (making it easier for users to switch and keep their apps), and has enough users to have bargaining power.

I don't mind if banks/govs require use of some protocol. But forcing use of specific apps goes against past achievements to make public institutions use open formats and protocols, so I reject that where possible, or complain.

It should not be acceptable. I still remember times when people had to pirate MS office to be able to open some .doc from their gov, or use MS windows to run some proprietary form filling software. That's mostly a thing of the past, thankfully. "My-app or highway" attitude feels like a setback in that regard.

And I wish I could just switch banks but in some situation it's not possible and in the country I currently live in, it seems that now no banks support 2fa SMS for any transaction above a tiny amount anyway.

Most people act as if Mobile Phone and Apps doesn't matter. It does and increasingly so. I think the argument would have some ground in 2015 or 2018. But in 2020 and forward looking into 2025 and 2030 there is no denying, phone is acting like an infrastructure, whether we like it or not.

You don't need a phone just to display an image...

I wish it could be optional.

My ISP still provides (very low quality) landline service for a fraction of my monthly phone bill. The UI on that phone is awesome: just a speaker and dialpad, no display at all.

lol, not sure which android you are talking about... probably the one where you need to find an exploit to be able to root it (I guess even HN forgot that you are supposed to be administrator on your own computer)

This post seems to mischaracterize what is going on and seems to be pre-prepared sentiment that has nothing to do with what actually is happening or going to happen

Apple users can still file share dos games, if they download that app now. Not clear what level of device control you are reacting to, without agreeing or disagreeing with your sentiment.

So by default you can't count on your apps staying on the phone.

yeah. thats where the experience diverges from other platforms.

the current device, with the current OS, won't have any problems. asking for more is mostly a different standard than other platforms, sad to hear they killed making your own app package copies.

Restoring a device from cloud backup will download all your apps, except apps no longer on the store

The device right now, with the OS right now, with the app right now will still be able to use this app and its file sharing feature in perpetuity which is an aspect that isn't different or worse than other kinds of devices or computers. Only the system restore embellishments being different or better or worse. People on other systems that pay for apps can still run into scenarios where their updated operating system is not compatible with an app they paid for. I'm not trying to be an apologist for things Apple or the mobile landscape could do better, only pointing out the standard people seem to be asking for without realizing it.