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Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by steveBK123 on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @11:55AM (#48647030)
I think the biggest problem is not necessarily the cost to develop & serve the models, but how quickly user behavior changed with token based pricing.

I know a lot of people at companies where the marching orders changed on a dime end of Q1/start of Q2. These are shops that were fully on the "use AI or die (because we will fire you)" train.

Now there's monitoring, reporting, alerting not just on overall cost but on "over-use" of best/priciest models based on total-or-percent tokens/dollars, etc. All of this comes with direct developer engagement & standardized management escalation for holding it wrong.

To me this customer behavior does not smell like a product you can 10x the pricing on to get profitable. We have exited the exploration phase and now ROI matters.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by piker on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @11:59AM (#48647077)
I.e., the demand for programming tokens turns out to be quite elastic.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by steveBK123 on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @12:02PM (#48647112)
I would imagine it only gets worse in the face of good-enough open/chinese/local models too right?

Microsoft adding Deepseek support already as I recall?

That is - for any definition of "they are behind X months" then eventually they get to the point Claude was in January when the world freaked out, but at 1/10th the cost. A lot of firms are going to mandate that is good enough for their developers.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by sdesol on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @12:23PM (#48647388)
> Microsoft adding Deepseek support

I believe this hasn't been confirmed yet but I think it speaks to a bigger problem for the AI companies which is, if you give capable developers a good reasoning LLM, they can make it work like it was a really expensive model.

I believe we are 100% at the stage of good enough for the vast majority of tech companines. Fable and others will be more valuable for non-traditional tech companies.

I read somewhere that the chinese AI companies are sharing knowledge and it would not surprise me if the government is applying pressure by saying work together or else. If they work together, they can truly commoditize LLMs and with China ramping up hardware support for AI, I see the future being inference speed and hardware being the moat.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by thewebguyd on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @12:35PM (#48647555)
If hardware becomes the moat, the US frontier labs are screwed. We have AWS, Azure, GCP. All three have or are making inference silicon. LLMs become just another service in the public cloud's large service catalog, and open weight wins.

Which makes sense to me. Selling a chatbot interface/model access to the general public was never going to be a viable long term play. You still need developers to wrap the models into specialized tools. Queue the Jobs quote "It's a feature, not a product."

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by KolibriFly on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @03:00PM (#48649741)
The funniest thing would be if in a couple years LLMs just end up being another checkbox next to PostgreSQL and Kubernetes
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by thewebguyd on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @04:34PM (#48650973)
I don't think that's far fetched at all either and is probably the end game ultimately. No one wants to buy a chatbot, they want to automate something with it. Intelligence is just another PaaS offering right next to storage, compute.

The only hiccup in that happening is will the US Gov let Anthropic and/or OpenAI fail when that time comes.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by sdesol on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @12:44PM (#48647670)
The big thing is, the western world has moved so much of the manufacturing to China and think a lot of people will not forgive Samsung and others, so I can see China owning a good portion of the supply chain.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by johnvanommen on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @01:17PM (#48648164)
> The big thing is, the western world has moved so much of the manufacturing to China

I built my career on Solaris and it got rugpulled by Linux.

That wasn’t because of software, it was because of hardware. Linux’s cost advantage existed because Sun hardware had huge margins, because their software was basically free.

AI will probably be a repeat of this. Whoever can come up with the hardware solution that minimizes the cost per token will win.

I believe the 5090 still holds this crown, but someone certainly knows better than I do.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by rescbr on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @02:24PM (#48649192)
While people fly to the US to buy Macs at a lower price and bring them back in their backpacks, I guess I'll be flying to HK to buy a Chinese GPU rather sooner than later...
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by trollbridge on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @02:30PM (#48649275)
Fortunately, Solaris skills map to Linux pretty cleanly.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by fragmede on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @01:52PM (#48648640)
but not all tokens are equal and vertical integration is the name of the game. Solaris did not lose to Linux, it lost to the LAMP stack on commodity x86 hardware. without the "AMP" part, Linux would've been dead in the water.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by fluoridation on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @07:38PM (#48653181)
The L part of LAMP is kinda irrelevant at the application level, though. From the point of view of running the software, SAMP or LAMP doesn't make any difference. So yes, Solaris lost the competition with Linux to be the first letter of the acronym.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by bluGill on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @07:59PM (#48653359)
While China makes a lot and a lot was moved, don't let that fool you. The western world is still making a lot of things. Manufacturing is bigger than ever in the US by any useful measure of manufacturing except the measure of number of people working in that field. Very few people work in a factory anymore because automation has replaced most of them. A factory that had 2000 employees in 1950 should have under 200 today to make the same things. If it can be that automated it moved to China.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by CuriouslyC on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @12:23PM (#48647391)
100%. There will be strict quotas on the expensive models and day to day work will be done on the cheap models that are "good enough" with escalation to the metered models when the cheaper options are spinning their wheels. Eventually the US frontier lab APIs will only get the most heavily triaged work that multiple tiers of cheaper Chinese open weight models have failed on.

And of course the C-suite will have unlimited access to Mythos tier models, which they'll use to summarize reports, while passing down mandates to rank and file to increase usage of less expensive models.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by verdverm on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @12:46PM (#48647706)
Yup, we are in the process of getting access to US hosted Chinese models. I've been petitioning Google and our rep, we will see but I suspect they will cave eventually. Gemini sucks and if they don't sell what their customers want, we go shopping around.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by bloppe on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @05:35PM (#48651796)
What you want is already available on OpenRouter and a million other services, but sure, you can wait 18 months for it to be on GCP.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by verdverm on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @05:39PM (#48651831)
> We are in the process...

OpenRouter charges an extra 5.5%, Fireworks does not, Google is separate, but I doubt it will take 18 months. They are already aware they are losing business.

OpenRouter is the wrong abstraction for enterprise, we only need one model provider, not everyone in the world. Nor do we want to have to worry about failover going to providers we don't want.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by michaelchisari on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @06:25PM (#48652337)
I'm set up to use Qwen 3.6 locally if needed. It's solid, it does what I need, it runs on my laptop and it's free.

But that's because I never got on the "run three dozen agents in a ralph loop" trend or other high-token usage methods. The way I use AI is discrete and targeted and it seems that's how it will be for everyone once the economics settle.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by Gigachad on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @06:32PM (#48652430)
Our org straight up turned off our AI access after the GitHub copilot price increase blew right through the budget.

At least on a personal I feel like I’ve been getting the same amount of work done but I have to think harder rather than sitting back and prompting and waiting.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by wookmaster on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @08:51PM (#48653735)
My company banned Chinese models but I’ve got opencode setup with some open source coding models just in case. Luckily our laptops have some RAM (Mac)
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by jayd16 on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @12:03PM (#48647124)
If folks won't pay a higher price, doesn't that mean it's inelastic?
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by unholiness on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @12:13PM (#48647256)
"Elastic" in economics happens to refers to how elastic the supply/demand is when the price changes (not vice versa, as you're describing). So e.g. an inelastic demand means the quantity demanded changes very little when the price doubles.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by steveBK123 on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @12:06PM (#48647155)
Elastic demand means buyers are highly sensitive; a price hike causes a massive drop in purchases. Inelastic demand means buyers aren’t very sensitive; they keep buying regardless of price
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by jayd16 on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @12:11PM (#48647236)
Ah alright I have it backwards then.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by dranudin on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @12:34PM (#48647545)
I can second this. Our company and department was all-in on AI. And since the token-based pricing came in, we got an email from IT that tried to explain that most developers don't know how to choose models and that the cheap models should be good enough for most of our work ..
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by verdverm on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @12:44PM (#48647669)
Have they built an internal ai enablement team?
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by dranudin on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @12:48PM (#48647730)
Yes :D
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by daemonologist on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @11:46PM (#48654839)
Ha, developers know perfectly well how to choose models - they know that the company is footing the bill and Opus will give them the best result and/or require the least clean-up work.

(We've received similar guidance. Even better is that our provider, GitHub Copilot, does not provide usage information to individual users if there is no per-user budget configured. So we just fire our requests into the black box and at the end of the month when IT gets the bill we maybe get a talking-to if it's excessive.)

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by burningChrome on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @01:09PM (#48648037)
I can give you some additional anecdotal evidence to support your comment.

I work at a Fortune 200 company. At first, it was the Wild West. Need an LLM? You got it. Need to or want to build an army of agents? Done and done. We literally had everything at the tips of fingers for about 3 months. Teams were building their own internal tools, the team I work on canceled contracts with several software vendors because teams were building the same tools for what they thought was nothing.

Then they signed contracts with Anthropic and Google because I would assume they saw the token usage was through the roof. One month later? They completely cut off access to everybody for both Claude and Gemini. If you wanted access? Suddenly it was several forms, along with several approvals and a rock solid business case why you needed it. And before you got to the forms? You were added to a waiting list that was thousands of people long.

The entire company is now in damage control after trying to get the genie back in the bottle. I'm guessing someone saw how much we would be paying for the tokens we'd been using and decided to shut the party down so to speak.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by sdesol on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @01:12PM (#48648100)
Was there at least performance gains to be measured?
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by burningChrome on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @01:38PM (#48648465)
AFAIK nobody was collecting analytics. The one team I was working on had put out a goal of "30% more efficient" using AI tools. Its about as subject as you can get. We never got around to what exactly that meant before everything got shut down.

Myself and several other devs were laughing about the whole thing. The company was so amped about what AI could do they never even bothered collecting any analytics that would affirm or deny any of this had a positive impact. Even some of my team members were talking about the placebo effect AI has had on a lot of C-Suite folks.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by stingraycharles on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @06:41PM (#48652501)
> Even some of my team members were talking about the placebo effect AI has had on a lot of C-Suite folks.

What do you mean placebo effect? They thought things were created with AI while they actually weren’t?

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by steveBK123 on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @08:09PM (#48653427)
For a lot of C-suite there has been more of a fast-follow approach to AI. CEO hears 3rd hand what competitors are doing, tells his CTO to "do AI" and "hire a head of AI".

So a lot of motion (do AI) was created without a destination (product outcome). The motion was what was being measured (we are doing AI).

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by grebc on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @03:03AM (#48656237)
Headlines is what matters at the executive and board level. Start measuring things and they might not be able to spin a story to sell.

For a large part of society we have management in leadership positions.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by gazebo2 on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @06:45PM (#48652559)
Probably meaning C-Suite thought productivity was up because of AI, either because A) metrics showed high AI usage or more commits/LOC or B) we're mandating AI usage, why wouldn't it increase?
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by Quarrelsome on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @06:56PM (#48652677)
30% is my new favourite stat. It seems to come up a lot, like the old "this work will take 6 months" that I was equally suspicious of back in the day.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by ohazi on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @03:43PM (#48664764)
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by wookmaster on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @08:48PM (#48653711)
This is all still going on at my company but they’ve been trying to create dashboards to measure us as good or bad with our output unsuccessfully but they keep shoving it through anyways. It’s demoralized a lot of people.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by sdesol on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @09:39PM (#48654096)
> It’s demoralized a lot of people

Isn't this a good thing? Doesn't it mean your company doesn't want employees to treat LLMs like a slot machines?

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by FromTheFirstIn on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @08:30AM (#48658711)
But they are, so it’s demoralizing to be punished for not hitting the jackpot
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by steveBK123 on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @08:33PM (#48653617)
I saw incredible productivity gain call-outs from non-technical teams like "it saves me 15 minutes per day summarizing my email".

Trillions of CapEx for good Clippy/Siri, nice.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by grebc on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @03:05AM (#48656255)
The only thing the people in charge care about is this: is their equity going up? Nothing else matters like results or revenue. Quaint concept those.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by luke5441 on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @07:09PM (#48652850)
Maybe it was your company with the 500 million Claude bill.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by christophilus on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @10:55PM (#48654536)
Woah. I missed that one. Had to look it up. That’s one hell of a surprise bill.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by i_idiot on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @07:20PM (#48652987)
Were there any managers fired for incompetence?
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by wseqyrku on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @12:19AM (#48655074)
You like to believe that these companies know what they're doing, they do not, I mean don't even try to find the logic behind their actions. They just follow the shiny things and then when it doesn't work, react by screwing up their employees. Their decisions age like milk on the countertop. After I got laid off a few month ago, I can't imagine myself working another 9 to 5. Because above all, it's an incredibly stupid way to spend your fleeting time here.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by steveBK123 on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @07:04AM (#48657968)
Right Eventually you realize companies are just a bunch of people making it up as they go along

Institutions are neither permanent nor superintelligent

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by puritanicdev on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @04:38AM (#48656925)
Probably a stupid question, but isn't giving developers $200 for a Max x20 subscription cheaper than using the API? I was discussing Claude's monthly bills with some friends recently. Most of us are in the $700-$1000 range, and I don't feel like I really spend that much. I have a Max x20 personal account, and I do a ton of work for my side projects through it.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by imrehg on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @04:47AM (#48657000)
Above a certain size you cannot get the quota-based models.

In my org, as our Team account (quota-based) was growing, to onboard more people we _had to_ switch to Enterprise (and thus API-based costs). The switch and now cost visibility really drives home the "did this code review worth $15?" kinds of questions...

We are just building the monitoring and I think there will be a crack-down sooner rather than later.

I'm more "code as craft" person, so I'm mainly unaffected (plus found my favourite local LLMs to be the missing rubber ducky with no associated cost), butI cannot say the same for everyone else around.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by Grombobulous on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @10:12AM (#48660229)
Most companies these days are incredibly disciplined on spending. That’s one reason why corporations have record profits in the last few years. The level of efficiency is so high.

That’s what makes the AI Wild West so fascinating to me. Companies just threw money at it out of fear of falling behind.

Now, I think that fear has subsided at many companies.

I always thought it was incredibly questionable that we were able to slurp down AI tooling with no questions asked. Meanwhile, if we want a piece of software for some other non-AI purpose, the prospect of spending $50/month per employee is met with deep scrutiny or outright denial by default.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by HDThoreaun on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @01:44PM (#48663280)
All the tokenmaxxing stuff was just management signaling that every single employee better be using AI or else. Now that everyones got the message its back to business of course
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by dlenski on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @06:42PM (#48666466)
I have been a major LLM skeptic and "late adopter." I had never actually used LLMs for anything at all (either in work or personal life) until about two months ago, although I had followed their development with interest and skepticism.

A couple months ago, I started using Claude for some tasks related to processing really messy data. Our company was making a big push for its use, and a co-worker gave me a fairly impressive demo of what he was able to do with this data in an hour or two.

Our company's Claude subscription defaulted to Opus 4.7 and we were encouraged to use it as much as we could.

I don't think I ever did more than 10 or 15 prompts in a day; I tend to do very detailed prompts and then spend 10-30 minutes playing around with the results and resulting code.

Today we get this:

> TL; DR: We're nearly at NNN Claude users and growing fast. Three quick asks: (1) default to Sonnet for everyday work; we have launched XXXXXXX to help with clarity, …

> …

> As we scale, let's be smart about how we work. Claude offers several models, and for everyday work — … — Sonnet is your go-to.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by ofjcihen on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @01:26PM (#48648298)
I do a lot of client work for fortune 100’s.

Over the last month I have seen companies scrambling to measure deliverables against cost. Most of the back room talk is to the affect of giving devs a small allowance ($500 a month) and then making them prove their own productivity increases (again, based on deliverables, not LoC) before they either take it away or give them more.

Obviously this won’t be on an individual basis but some kind of unit.

Either way, with how much I see these companies cutting back I have no idea how the big AI companies are going to be profitable.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by energy123 on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @06:45PM (#48652561)
The AI companies will be profitable if they ship the goods. Make AGI and companies will pay for it.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by fluoridation on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @07:30PM (#48653108)
Not if it costs more than a human, or if it performs worse (be that in quality or in time). After all, humans have NGI and companies don't just hire anyone with a pulse.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by oblio on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @03:49AM (#48656579)
> Make AGI

It's easy, just:

Make economically viable cold fusion

Make flying cars

Make a perpetual motion machine

Just because AGI is 3 simple letters doesn't implicitly mean we will live to see it.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by N_Lens on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @08:02AM (#48658447)
Your comment reminds me of when a friend was watching me play counter strike 1.6 and said “this game looks so easy, just point at the enemies’ heads and left click?”
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by Der_Einzige on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @11:02AM (#48661054)
He was right. Twitch shooters take far less skill than shooters with higher TTK and it’s not even close. Pros at “the finals” are much higher IQ than CS or valorant pros.

Similar dynamic to how league might as well be candy land compared to dota2s checkers and star crafts chess.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by energy123 on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @05:48PM (#48666020)
I cannot fathom how my comment can be interpreted as implying that it's easy to make AGI. And you're not the only one reading it that way too. My comment laid out a hypothesis pertaining to a conditional. Not a statement that it's easy.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by Gigachad on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @06:30PM (#48652396)
Our company went from “AI AI AI” to “GitHub Copilot has been suspended due to exceeding the budget” with this month’s price increase.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by mkozlows on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @07:20PM (#48652981)
If your company was giving you Copilot, they were never that far on board the AI train anyway.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by Gigachad on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @08:15PM (#48653480)
Github Copilot is a different product than the Windows / Office one. Horrible naming I know but it's basically just a UI and router to pick whatever model you want.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by wookmaster on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @08:49PM (#48653728)
Microsoft names everything copilot anymore so everyone will continue to be confused
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by mkozlows on Thursday June 25, 2026 @12:17AM (#48668819)
No, I know what it is. But it's not as good as Claude Code or Codex. Harnesses matter for coding agents, it's not just the model. There's a reason Microsoft had to make its developers stop using Claude Code, and it's because they all found that Copilot sucked in comparison.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by xdertz on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @05:18AM (#48657219)
Github Copilot lets you use Anthropic models. This is just a way for enterprises to fold this into their existing Microsoft contract instead of negotiating with a new vendor.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by qurren on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @07:08PM (#48652834)
What I don't understand is why some companies are so stingy on AI token usage.

If you're paying an engineer $X and they're getting 3x the amount of work done you should be happy paying up to $2X in AI tool usage.

In reality many companies start complaining at their employees when they hit $0.1*X or less.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by thisoneisreal on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @07:23PM (#48653025)
I hesitate to say this because I think the AI hype is generally overdone, but I was contemplating the other day how much I would recommend my employer spend on AI tooling for me based on my salary and it's got to be in the tens of thousands of dollars per year if I'm being honest. I'm a contractor. On my most recent client, I was able to learn a completely new domain and business, design a solution and build a full stack POC (a complicated one with technologies I had never used before) nearly singlehandedly in less than 2 months. That includes all of the onboarding time, getting access to the right people, repositories, databases etc. What made it possible was 1) the AI helped me understand technologies I had never used before, from a 30 year old Java stack to graph databases, 2) it could analyze DDLs and make correct inferences about what tables and columns meant in both business and technical terms, 3) it generated mostly-correct code in multiple languages to achieve what I needed it to do, and 4) it referenced libraries I didn't know existed to accomplish tasks I needed done. I could cycle between these activities and iterate FAR more rapidly than I ever have before. To me this is the thing the AI companies should really be emphasizing. I'm not convinced autonomous agents are really working out, but I'm 1000% sold on their ability to empower developers. And I say this as a pretty skeptical late adopter who only knows the most basic AI tooling.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by oblio on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @03:39AM (#48656511)
For consulting, sure. Most of the work is hitting the ground running and figuring out the old tech stacks, creating PoCs and then moving them to production and them moving on to the next "engagement".

I think the problem is more for long lived projects and developers as regular employees. As you keep working on the product, you should be developing your own mental model of everything: business, tech stack, how the company approaches things. And that's where LLM value drops down a lot, or it should, otherwise there is a bigger problem with the developer. A huge LLM cost for a consultant is in my opinion a lot more justified than a huge recurring cost for someone who's been working on the same thing for at least 9+ months.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by fc417fc802 on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @07:23AM (#48658114)
Even when I know a domain well an LLM used well allows me to arrive at an answer in minutes that would otherwise have taken hours. It also accelerates onboarding an unfamiliar stack but the benefit doesn't suddenly disappear once that first hurdle is cleared.

After arriving at a seemingly workable design it helps spot oversights I've made either directly or by providing a stand in for a person to walk though the logic with (unlike a real person it doesn't become annoyed or impatient). Then it magically materializes any and all boilerplate along with 90% of the solution near instantaneously.

Yeah it confidently makes some truly bizarre errors that no half competent person ever would. Failing to go over the output with a fine toothed comb is inevitably leaving landmines in place. But I agree with you that your own mental model is required - if you have that then you will be able to spot the pitfalls assuming you actually put in the effort to read the output and really think about it instead of skimming. (As an example an LLM recently materialized an nftables filter chain for me that would have taken me quit a while to figure out on my own but for no apparent reason omitted a single key detail that would have completely broken all networking if it had been used blindly.)

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by skydhash on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @07:22AM (#48658103)
> I'm a contractor. On my most recent client, I was able to learn a completely new domain and business, design a solution and build a full stack POC (a complicated one with technologies I had never used before) nearly singlehandedly in less than 2 months

But did you do it well? It’s not a snack, but a question based on general observation that every is praising the process, but no comment on the outcome.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by HDThoreaun on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @01:47PM (#48663327)
Who cares? The business paid. Software engineers often overestimate how much businesses care about doing a job well vs quickly/cheaply
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by skydhash on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @04:44PM (#48665384)
> Who cares?

The future scapegoat, aka maintainer.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by whattheheckheck on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @07:51PM (#48666959)
More agents!
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by thisoneisreal on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @06:12PM (#48666229)
I think I've done a good job straddling the delivery/maintainability line thus far. In the near future I'm likely going to have to downshift into smaller, higher quality changes and refactors, but I've been careful to keep an eye on the output and make sure the functions are reasonably scoped, documented, and understandable. I don't anticipate any issues maintaining what I've produced so far, but it could easily get out of hand as more concepts get mixed in.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by steveBK123 on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @07:11PM (#48652870)
Most companies are not seeing 2x or 3x of value produced from developers with AI is the reason
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by brandensilva on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @07:27PM (#48653066)
Yeah the cost doesn't justify the value. Spending x3 on tokens is meaningless if they aren't seeing the profit side scale with it. Going faster on product features doesn't mean it translates to more money. In fact I'm not even sure some customers can handle the speed at which a team could move with feature delivery.

So scaling horizontally in different markets seems like an advantage if a product is already mature. Which is exactly what Anthropic and Open AI are doing because they want to put their tentacles in everything.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by steveBK123 on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @08:03PM (#48653388)
> Going faster on product features doesn't mean it translates to more money.

Exactly this. Unless the new features directly drive new users or new revenue from existing users, for many products iterating 2x faster does not mean 2x ROI.

Additionally, from anecdotes here, at work, and in my network.. a lot of the unlocked developer velocity is going to fun/frivolous/extra things. I think part of it is developers have their own features they want for themselves that are the easiest and most direct thing to deploy LLMs against, in the absence of good direction.

Yes it's cool you finally achieved 100% test coverage, or you wrote a new utility that makes your job easier, or cleared the 2 year old ticket that was 100 deep in your backlog, etc. But there were ROI reasons these things were not done previously.

That's already putting aside the fact that development going 3x faster doesn't increase end to end output by 3x because <100% of a SWEs job is development.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by oblio on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @03:42AM (#48656527)
> a lot of the unlocked developer velocity is going to fun/frivolous/extra things

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/yak_shaving

And I'll have you know I'm a Grand Master Yak Shaver.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by mkozlows on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @07:22PM (#48653010)
10% of a developer's cost is something like $4000/month. Many companies are complaining at a point that's well, well below that.

(I think they are being irrational, and that the mental model they have of AI costs -- "how much are we spending on tooling for this developer?" -- is going to shift over time to something more sensible, but those kinds of short-sighted companies are the ones that are having cost panics.)

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by bluefirebrand on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @07:46PM (#48653263)
> 10% of a developer's cost is something like $4000/month

What company pays developers $40000/month and are they hiring?

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by pchristensen on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @08:24PM (#48653547)
A company's fully loaded cost (payroll taxes, insurance, fixed company costs, infra, real estate, etc) is usually about double the employee's salary. Half of $40k is 20k/mo, which is ~$250k/hr. That's a lot but very in-bounds for software engineering salaries.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by christophilus on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @10:59PM (#48654557)
Hm. I’ve been way, way underselling myself this whole time.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by oblio on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @03:44AM (#48656545)
Not necessarily. Those jobs are very hard to get and you have to live in the right places. At most 1% of software devs will make that much, at any point in their careers.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by imtringued on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @04:21AM (#48656806)
$250k/hour is half a billion USD per year. Nobody is paid that much.

Based on such a basic mistake, I wouldn't trust the rest of your comment. Everything you listed feels like made up arbitrary excuses. Most of the overhead per employee is fixed, that doubling rule of thumb is assuming an employee with a salary closer to the median. At the salary you're claiming, the overhead shrinks to something like 30% on top of the base salary.

If anyone took your numbers seriously they would run into the weird conclusion that an employee paid $50k actually costs a company $300k. That's the type of math error you're doing here.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by ido on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @06:49AM (#48657877)
> Based on such a basic mistake

The mistake of 'h' instead of 'y' typo?

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by pchristensen on Thursday June 25, 2026 @11:35AM (#48675010)
I didn't make those numbers up - here's a widely cited source from MIT: https://nutsandbolts.mit.edu/BBJ/EmployeeCost.php

Overhead is not fixed per employee - things like taxes and benefits scale with salary, not to mention the cost of tooling (hardware, software, AI token budget, etc) tend to be higher for higher-compensated employees.

You definitely shouldn't plan your business based on my comment, but you'd be foolish to ignore it.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by qurren on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @12:17AM (#48655050)
> What company pays developers $40000/month

Meta, Google, Amazon, Apple, OpenAI, Anthropic, Netflix, Nvidia, to name a few

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by dzonga on Thursday June 25, 2026 @08:49AM (#48672568)
majority of software engineers are not employed at those companies but rather at banks, small / medium startups etc.

we need to start using that median instead of using salaries from the Magnificent 7.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by vjvjvjvjghv on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @07:32PM (#48653131)
Yeah. It’s weird. I just booked 2 flights to different meetings with very questionable value in the next few weeks. The whole travel costs around 3000. I would much rather spend this money on tokens but even 300 is too much per month.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by Gigachad on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @09:04PM (#48653830)
Because work done isn’t the same as value produced or profits increased. Spending millions of dollars on useless busywork that no one would have bothered doing manually isn’t productive.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by steve-atx-7600 on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @10:17PM (#48654317)
Especially if the company could simply reimburse $200/month Claude or codex. Those are a steal. Hard to exhaust those limits.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by aryehof on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @12:01AM (#48654937)
They may be getting 3 times the work done, but what work? Quality effective code that meets requirements? Or something else?
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by oblio on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @03:46AM (#48656554)
> Quality effective code that meets requirements...

... and that also improves the company's financials.

Otherwise it's all fluff.

Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by imtringued on Wednesday June 24, 2026 @04:12AM (#48656746)
When you look at the salaries that the average HN poster brags about, that's at least ten thousand dollars worth of tokens or a billion input tokens per year. That doesn't sound like an unreasonable spending limit.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by whimsicalism on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @07:10PM (#48652860)
I think this panic around overuse is largely just managers talking amongst themselves and everyone trying to see what everyone else is doing. It is frankly hard to interpret in any other way
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by bluGill on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @08:01PM (#48653381)
Also talking to accountants who will sound alerts if the bottom line isn't looking good enough.
Re:AI's Affordability Crisis by matheusmoreira on Tuesday June 23, 2026 @07:32PM (#48653128)
This is great to see. LLMs are great but the industry really needs to experience a correction.