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Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by organsnyder on Thursday February 15, 2018 @12:02PM (#16385589)
I work for a large healthcare system, and the "we're not a tech company" line is often heard. At many levels, I agree—we're in the business of delivering healthy outcomes to our communities, so we need to make sure that efforts across the enterprise support that—but it is often applied in ways that stifle us from delivering what we feel would be the most impactful and cost-effective solutions.

I like to respond that Netflix isn't a tech company, either—they're in the business of delivering entertainment. Their position and reputation allows them to build a stronger engineering culture, but their technology still is subservient to their non-tech business goals. While "software is eating the world" has been quoted to the point of being a cliché, the organizations that recognize software as a competitive differentiator—rather than merely a cost center—definitely have an edge against their tech-averse competitors.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by shreyanshd on Thursday February 15, 2018 @01:37PM (#16386375)
I work in technology for an investment bank and i hear “we are not a technology company” every quarter. Ironically, the tech we develop is a major factor, if not the only factor, for revenue. My motivation is instantly shattered when i hear that.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by hamstercat on Thursday February 15, 2018 @02:47PM (#16386920)
I used to work in another financial-related company and "IT is a cost not a revenue center" was thrown around as often as possible. Raise, promotion, formation, a computer made in this decade, anything really would get us that answer. Not only from my boss, but from the IT's top director in various meetings and one-on-one. I used to find it highly frustrating and unfair given that the company would cease to exists without our software, and that all new customers were acquired through new development in our software.

Now that I'm older and not working there anymore, I understand that it's a culture problem and that management just didn't know any better, but I've come to accept the fact that it was a great way to cut costs and get away with it. After all, they still have many employees and manage to make more profit year after year. It just made for a very demotivating environment.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by nostrademons on Thursday February 15, 2018 @05:39PM (#16388436)
The old "We are a tech company, we just happen to do retail/advertising/communication/movies/hospitality/transportation/payments better than you idiots" seems to be working pretty well for Amazon/Google/Facebook/Netflix/AirBnB/Uber/Lyft/Stripe.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by MR4D on Thursday February 15, 2018 @10:04PM (#16389551)
This makes me both sad and happy. Sad, because that’s such a shortsighted view; happy, because I run a small financial services company and we compete with them.

We’re prudent, we don’t like to waste money, and we analyze investments from every angle we can think of.

But we look at Tech (we don’t call it IT) as a profit center. We don’t invest in anything unless it can drive down costs, increase revenues, or is needed for regulatory or security reasons.

And when we pull the trigger, I want to make sure that we’ve got the best stuff on the market. Everyone uses either Macs or PCs (we’re agnostic), and run as many monitors as they need to feel productive. Everyone has an iPhone and an iPad. When the hurricane hit Houston, our office building was out of commission for over a week, but we kept running the business.

I want to make sure that Tech allows us to multiply our capabilities. We have a paperless office where any paper is scanned at hi-res, put into our systems and linked to client or regulatory records. Everything is shredded afterwards.

Long ago, I worked in IT, and was dumbfounded by the shortsightedness I saw inside companies who don’t know how to utilize IT. I love competing against those idiots now, because my capabilities are way higher and our cost structure is lower. If we didn’t have all our paper copies scanned in when the hurricane hit, we would have been dead in the water (sorry for the pun).

So, I really feel sorry for all those people who work for morons like the Parent describes, but here’s my recommendation: go start a company and run with your vision. You may fail a couple times (I did), but once you win - and it only takes once - you will never look back.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by caseysoftware on Thursday February 15, 2018 @11:35PM (#16389891)
THIS. This is the kind of company we should strive to work for.

Appreciating something just because it's novel is bullshit. Appreciating something that solves an actual problem effectively.. that's where I want to be.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by mmcconnell1618 on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:19PM (#16387225)
The IT-Business Maturity model fits here. Considering IT a "cost center" that takes orders is a Level 1 organization. Level 2 is about optimizing IT processes and Level 3 is the partnership of IT and Business on strategic goals. If a financial firm is treating IT as a cost instead of partner, they have some maturing to do.

http://formicio.com/index.php/archives/765

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by Spooky23 on Thursday February 15, 2018 @05:39PM (#16388430)
It’s funny that in the .gov space, I’ve seen management in agencies ranging from corrections to taxation to social services envision themselves as software companies, because it made sense. Every dollar invested in strategic tech produces $3-10 in outcome.

Ironically, the orgs responsible for technology “get it” the least, as they are in the business of ITIL bullshit and order filling. IT bureaucracy will spend $10,000 to save $0.10.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by samstave on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:13PM (#16387176)
>I used to work in another financial-related company and "IT is a cost not a revenue center" was thrown around as often as possible

This has literally always been the case with IT; they were always seen as cost-centers, not profit.... which is largely due to IT departments historically falling under the CFO....

CEO: "Keep these motherfuckers from spending money"

IT: if "You want this [project] to meet your requirements of [XYZ]?, then == $2000000

CFO: "Fuck you, lets do it for half that and drop security and accessibility as a result"

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by perseusprime11 on Thursday February 15, 2018 @10:07PM (#16389557)
We actually dropped the CFO and life is beautiful.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by a012 on Thursday February 15, 2018 @11:56PM (#16389982)
It's a common concept that many managements see IT/infrastructure as cost center, even their tech to be used to generate revenue. It boils down to minimize the systems to maximize shareholders value but requires high uptime.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by bunderbunder on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:01PM (#16387063)
Funny, I go the other way, somewhat. Last time I was interviewing for jobs, one line I heard from a whole lot of financial companies was, "We like to think of ourselves as more of a tech company than a bank."

It's an instant turn-off for me when I hear something like that. These are companies that should be thinking of tech as a means to an end, and not an end in an of itself. Even when I worked at a major software vendor, the tech was still just a means to an end.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by lev99 on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:20PM (#16387233)
If (good) tech companies use tech as a means to an end, and a bank wants to think of themselves as a tech company, that means that a bank thinking of themselves as a tech company doesn't necessary think of tech as an end in of itself.

Companies too invested in tech tend to spend themselves into bankruptcy. Companies not invested enough in tech tend to be overcome by companies with better tech more slowly.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by somberi on Friday February 16, 2018 @04:52AM (#16391170)
There could be multiple reasons for this, two of which come to my mind:

1. The person who said it may be fancying his own role as tech-heavy and might relate to his/her imagination of what tech-pure companies do. Saying, we are like Google, appeases the person saying it, and satisfies their ego.

2. Often candidates like listening to this. It may not have worked for you, but for the candidates who like hearing this, this works wonderfully. If I were to wager, this line works for more candidates than it pisses off.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by adrianratnapala on Thursday February 15, 2018 @09:01PM (#16389351)
> It's an instant turn-off for me when I hear something like that.

While I can see why you find it grating, I think I would forgive them. Whatever else they are, interviews are also those awkward social moments when new acquaintances are just trying to push beyond small talk while trying to please each other. At this stage, it's normal for people to try a little too hard.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by bunderbunder on Friday February 16, 2018 @08:45AM (#16392243)
You're right that it's could just be a recruiter being over-eager and/or missing the mark on what would attract me personally. But that doesn't really change my stance on the subject.

Interviews aren't really like a casual social interaction. Progressing past the initial phone call typically involves spending from several hours up to to a whole weekend on some cute homework project, shirking on one's current job for more phone calls, burning PTO for on-site interviews and whatnot. I've got precious little time I'm willing to spend on that sort of stuff, so it's in my interest to be supremely petty.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by zokier on Thursday February 15, 2018 @06:02PM (#16388555)
Its kinda fashionable to say such things, I'd think its natural that they do that especially when trying to get good tech people in (I presuming here). Bigger question i8s how far beyond the interview that sentiment truly goes.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by WalterBright on Thursday February 15, 2018 @06:57PM (#16388855)
Maybe you can fix the problem where I want to download all my statements and transactions for the last tax year. It should be a one button push from their web site. But nope, it's always 15 minutes to a half hour tediously downloading things statement by statement, form by form, argghh.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by shreyanshd on Friday February 16, 2018 @02:07AM (#16390507)
I am sorry you have to spend half an hour downloading your statements. But what you’re complaining about comes under commercial banking tech, which is generally outsourced to IT consulting firms. Our tech platform is generally for institutional clients, who have systems on their end, and our systems interact with theirs to carry out business.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by arenaninja on Thursday February 15, 2018 @04:00PM (#16387583)
Also work in tech for an investment bank but I hear that we are a tech company every quarter. And it's pure BS, no one here cares about development experience :)
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by Terretta on Thursday February 15, 2018 @11:44PM (#16389932)
Come work at MUFG, largest bank in free world, $2.7T, which decided we have to be a tech company.

Our head of technology strategy for Americas is on hacker news at quarter to midnight. And hiring, not just for blockchain. (See my “about” text.)

Worth a chat if you’re in NYC or San Diego.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by nowarninglabel on Friday February 16, 2018 @12:22AM (#16390071)
If you don't mind me hijacking your comment, I'm actually currently trying to solve a problem through which I am trying to connect to people such as you. Essentially, Kiva has served the world's unbanked and underbanked through crowd-funding to some success, but ultimately to reach all the underserved we need to get the data we and our partners have to large regional and global banks so they can price the risk of these potential borrowers and bring in larger amounts of capital.

It would seem if we can get the data to banks such as MUFG in a usable format, then it presents a large opportunity, however how would one even begin to interact with such a large entity to explore it?

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by Terretta on Friday February 16, 2018 @05:37AM (#16391401)
This sounds great.

You’d troll their LinkedIn looking for a title that esonated, read the job description to be sure, and try connecting, exchange enough convo to move over to their bank email, and then share the idea.

In our case, I’m the right guy. You can email me (and connect on LinkedIn if you like) and I’ll reply with my bank email. Elaborate on the idea then.

I’ve got 250 leaders thinking about how they could use new kinds of data, we’ll connect you to right groups. Even I have a team of PhDs looking for interesting things to tie together to better serve communities.

Note though, getting capital isn’t our problem, we’re interested in more ways to give it out, use it, put it to work.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by keithwhor on Thursday February 15, 2018 @11:52PM (#16389959)
I find this statement funny, if only because in the context of Silicon Valley culture, the statement "[x] is on hacker news at quarter to midnight" normally just means "[x] isn't doing any work at quarter to midnight."

(I understand what you're going for and appreciate it, it's just interesting how social signals are interpreted given different industries / contexts.)

(... and yes, me posting this comment does, in fact, mean that I'm not doing any work while I post it.)

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by Terretta on Friday February 16, 2018 @06:14AM (#16391539)
On the contrary, if your job depends on understanding trends in a field, read more:

https://qz.com/668514/if-you-want-to-be-like-warren-buffett-...

Being aware of HN is part of my work.

In my case, we get four key dimensions of value:

1. Seeing trends early is in the job description, and a small slice of zeitgeist is here. I check here, several other self-selecting subgroup sites, a broad RSS list, white paper subscription sites, etc., and typically also read one subject matter book a day. With enough dots of info across a broad array of sources, you can see trends earlier.

2. Finding emerging tech likely able to go ‘enterprise’ is also part of my JD. That often depends on leadership. Some of those leaders are here. You can tell a lot about a company from its founders. I’ve been an extremely early customer of startups found here, years later they lead their segment and we’re already on board. Examples like Hashicorp or CoreOS come to mind.

3. Emerging debates that do matter are often here early, where threads are high quality enough to get exposure to well thought, good logic, alternative views. Being able to absorb more of those improves low data decisions.

4. You can even find talent early. Many met here have gone on to release awesome tools, join or found cool companies, get acquired by BigCos... it’s great to see talented and motivated trajectories and learn it’s not all just luck.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by baldeagle on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:26PM (#16387295)
I work for a bank... and I hear that, 'we will be a tech company or not a company.' All the time...
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by kbenson on Thursday February 15, 2018 @09:10PM (#16389380)
Conversely, I work for a very small company where the owner likes to fashion himself running a startup even though he's been in business over a decade. Technology features heavily in what we do, but I cringe every time he says "really, we're a technology company".
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by dopamean on Thursday February 15, 2018 @02:25PM (#16386731)
How could you say that the tech you develop might be the only factor in revenue calculations? That makes no sense to me in investment banking.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by yourapostasy on Thursday February 15, 2018 @02:35PM (#16386821)
If tech really is the differentiator, then hearing that means tech staff won’t get commensurately compensated for delivering that decisive factor to the revenue mix.

The rules of old business still applies in most organizations: the closer you are to the transactional point where money changes hands, the more you make. This many times means sales, then management, then finance, then marketing, then engineering, then back office.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by dopamean on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:03PM (#16387083)
Yeah I get all that. I guess what I mean is that I just don't believe that the technology at an investment bank is responsible for all of the revenue at the bank. There's no way that's true. There are people who actually go out and do advisory deals and such which are actual people making things happen. Sure, they are enabled by technology, but those kinds of deals have been done for decades.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by bboreham on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:32PM (#16387343)
Investment banks also do huge volumes of transactional business - dealing in shares, bonds, fx and derivatives of those. And all of those need hundreds of risk reports either for management or regulators.

The deal-makers can get by with a spreadsheet and a BlackBerry, but the rest needs serious amounts of technology.

Ideally advisory business is balanced with dealing and financing, but different houses will be slanted one way or another.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by shreyanshd on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:02PM (#16387070)
Tech is obviously not the only factor, but it certainly is an important one. One of the main factors in finacial services tech industry is time to market, efficienct algortihms, being compliant, handling huge bursts of volume and accuracy. Our systems ensure smooth functioning of the business across most exchanges in the world. I think the business is practically impossible without robust technology.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by johan_larson on Thursday February 15, 2018 @02:53PM (#16386987)
It looks like Goldman has no tech people among their top executives. I would have expected at least a CTO or CIO. I don't see this working out for them.

http://www.goldmansachs.com/who-we-are/leadership/executive-...

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by andrewchoi on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:14PM (#16387189)
Marty Chavez was, but got promoted:

> Prior to assuming his current role, Mr. Chavez was Chief Information Officer, responsible for the Technology Division

Profile on him from a few years back: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/03/business/dealbook/goldman...

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by johan_larson on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:22PM (#16387261)
Well, that's something at least. They have a CIO. And someone with a tech background can make it to the inner circle. Still, the CIO is not counted among the top executives.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by joncrane on Friday February 16, 2018 @03:44PM (#16395995)
Why are you assuming that someone with the title "CIO" has a tech background?

I worked at a place where the CIO was a lawyer who knew the business really well, but no real tech in his background.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by johan_larson on Friday February 16, 2018 @04:39PM (#16396643)
Because it is in accord with my experience and my general sense that people should know what they are doing in the areas they are are given responsibility over. That generally requires experience, and at high level probably extensive experience. It's hard to see how a lawyer with no real tech experience can make good choices in the area of technology.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by joncrane on Sunday February 18, 2018 @01:29PM (#16407364)
He wasn't great but he wasn't terrible. He had a very logical mind and tried to choose wisely as far as whose advice he took.

His only knock was that he believed the Cyber Security FUD too much.

Other than that, solid guy and I'd work for him avain.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by idlecool on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:09PM (#16387143)
Then who do engineers report to?
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by babaganoosh89 on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:15PM (#16387196)
Presumably a VP of engineering
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by wan23 on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:21PM (#16387237)
Probably not - you'd be surprised how low the the title of "Vice President" is in finance companies.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by bennyelv on Friday February 16, 2018 @07:56AM (#16391976)
In my opinion, not unreasonably for these two reasons:

Banks generally delegate responsibility for huge sums of money to quite a low level in the organisation, and their clients are usually much smaller than the bank is. There needs to be some kind of parity in the apparent seniority between client and bank. The CEO of an SME doesn't want to be dealing with someone who sounds junior when discussing deals regarding the total value of their company.

Banks are so large and complex that it's usually not far off the bottom wrung of the org chart that you're responsible for huge sums of money/risks/contracts. People in smaller organisations with similar monetary responsibilities (in absolute terms) are usually the senior ones with senior sounding titles.

For example, I was a lowly infrastructure engineer in a tier 1 global investment bank working in the platform engineering team not far off the bottom of the ladder, yet I was responsible for infrastructure spending decisions in the scale of 10-100 million dollars. A drop in the ocean for the IT budget of $5Bn dollars, but a larger monetary responsibility than the CEO of a mid sized company has. So yes, I was called a VP.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by barrkel on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:55PM (#16387553)
VP of Engineering isn't as devalued as VP of Sales even in companies where a couple of years of experience gets you VP. Subject matters.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by oarsinsync on Thursday February 15, 2018 @05:00PM (#16388126)
I know people who are less than 5 years into their first jobs from graduation who are VPs in Engineering, in financial firms in London (City) and New York (Wall Street). Organisation/culture/industry matters more than subject, I think.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by bennyelv on Friday February 16, 2018 @07:58AM (#16391984)
In my experience it's pretty rare to get the VP title in less than 5 years. In fact in my graduate intake nobody did it in that timescale. Good people would get it in 5-7 years.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by huac on Thursday February 15, 2018 @08:28PM (#16389245)
2-3 years as an analyst, 2-3 years as an associate, boom, you're a VP.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by oblio on Thursday February 15, 2018 @12:11PM (#16385663)
I like to ask people what's the biggest advertising company in the world.

You'd be surprised how many people don't know :)

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by rdiddly on Thursday February 15, 2018 @01:50PM (#16386465)
You know who else would be surprised, is 1998 Larry Page & 1998 Sergey Brin. Especially the part about hearing their company called an "advertising company," much less the largest one.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by ucaetano on Thursday February 15, 2018 @02:52PM (#16386973)
Which then makes any ad-paid company an advertising company. Which is a completely useless definition.

Don't mix source of revenue with core business, especially in multi-sided markets.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by s73v3r_ on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:17PM (#16387206)
But their core business is selling advertising.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by rdiddly on Thursday February 15, 2018 @02:54PM (#16386990)
Don't complain to me, I didn't say it.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by debt on Thursday February 15, 2018 @12:31PM (#16385823)
I say the same about largest media company in the world.

It's shocking that people don't know it's Facebook.

And in their case not just in the world, but the largest media company in history by a very wide margin. People don't see any connection between William Randolph Hearst and Mark Zuckerberg; Facebook really has the best PR team.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by freehunter on Thursday February 15, 2018 @12:44PM (#16385931)
Well the difference is that Facebook is an aggregator and doesn't actually publish or write any of their own content. They're a media company, sure, but they're not directly comparable to newspapers or cable news outlets.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by TremendousJudge on Thursday February 15, 2018 @12:48PM (#16385961)
Google doesn't make the ads either, they just publish them on their platform
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by bzbarsky on Friday February 16, 2018 @10:55AM (#16393190)
In a world in which any piece of content you want to exist does exist because someone is written it (and we're a lot closer to that world now than in Hearst's day), power lies not in production of content but in control over which content actually gets seen.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by rootlocus on Thursday February 15, 2018 @12:55PM (#16386034)
From a consumer point of view, Facebook is pretty much a news source. For some even the only news source.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by debt on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:42PM (#16387429)
Facebook is an editor(like at a newspaper), except in this case editorial control is determine by billions of users and a completely opaque "News Feed" algorithm.

Remember, people don't just share articles, they share articles with their commentary.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by dredmorbius on Friday February 16, 2018 @02:40AM (#16390640)
Channel matters FAR more than content.

("Content is king" was always a distraction. And that came from Sumner Redstone (Viacom), not Bill Gates, who only quoted it.)

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by dbbk on Friday February 16, 2018 @01:02PM (#16394282)
They do though, Facebook Watch is them funding original content.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by lugg on Thursday February 15, 2018 @12:57PM (#16386045)
Exactly what do newspapers and cable news have in common with each other that Facebook doesn't?
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by shkkmo on Thursday February 15, 2018 @01:14PM (#16386203)
They pay reporters.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by PeterisP on Thursday February 15, 2018 @02:35PM (#16386820)
Quite many of them don't, many (most?) not-top newspapers re-publish news gathered by others; many (most?) cable companies don't produce any news content themselves but just provide access to a bunch of news channels. Those still are media companies.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by reaperducer on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:51PM (#16387508)
> many (most?) not-top newspapers re-publish news gathered by others

If you're referring to AP and other news services, they pay quite a lot for that, so the reporters are paid. Also, they contribute their own stories from their paid reporters to the service for other members to share.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by vuln on Thursday February 15, 2018 @01:37PM (#16386370)
Facebook employs moderators.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by Godel_unicode on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:17PM (#16387208)
You don't see a difference between a moderator and a reporter in terms of content creation?
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by coloredtopbar on Thursday February 15, 2018 @02:51PM (#16386959)
In other words: Facebook doesn't employ journalists, certainly not to do journalism.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by gumby on Thursday February 15, 2018 @01:45PM (#16386427)
> I say the same about largest media company in the world.

Indeed. I was just reading about the local broadcast rules (specifically: Sinclair broadcasting wants to buy Tribune media, and the FCC appears to be saying 'go ahead".) . Some people are concerned that this violates rules against concentration of ownership in broadcast stations.

But doesn't Facebook operate in essentially 100% of US markets? Should we even care who owns the TV broadcasts?

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by reaperducer on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:49PM (#16387487)
The rule was made because radio waves (broadcast) is a finite resource, and so there are a limited number of players who can compete.

The internet can, theoretically, have an unlimited number of competitors, so it's not regulated the same way.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by gumby on Thursday February 15, 2018 @11:00PM (#16389753)
Sure, that mattered in the 1930s but does it really matter any more?
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by reaperducer on Friday February 16, 2018 @01:14PM (#16394389)
Are there suddenly unlimited over-the-air frequencies available to broadcasters?
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by gumby on Friday February 16, 2018 @05:48PM (#16397239)
No, but there are so many channels of info these days OTA broadcast is a minor part of it. In addition the economics of the business lead to increasing amounds of network content rather than expensive locally generated content on the airwaves. And in fact OTA is much less common than watching local channels mixed in with otehr channels on cable, so again the local channels aer drowned out.

Looking up the stats a couple of weeks ago during a different HN discussion I was shocked how popular TV still is across all demographics, but local content was a plummeting percentage of the total.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by hammock on Thursday February 15, 2018 @12:54PM (#16386028)
Might it not be Google?
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by wafflesraccoon on Thursday February 15, 2018 @12:20PM (#16385730)
Who is the biggest advertising company? Google?
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by oblio on Thursday February 15, 2018 @12:24PM (#16385763)
Unless something changed recently, I believe that $95bn of advertising revenue makes them the biggest advertising company in the world :)
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by golemiprague on Thursday February 15, 2018 @06:11PM (#16388605)
They are the medium, not the advertising company, the same way a tv channel is the medium, not the advertising company. WPP, Omnicom, Dentsu, those are advertising companies. You are conflating here two different things.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by coupdetaco on Thursday February 15, 2018 @10:19PM (#16389599)
they are distribution, just like the agencies. Only Google drives distribution costs down
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by bannable on Thursday February 15, 2018 @12:26PM (#16385779)
Probably WPP or Omnicom.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by guyzero on Thursday February 15, 2018 @12:53PM (#16386015)
Omnicom: $15B revenue annually, $17B market cap WPP: $18B revenue, $23B market cap Google: $110B revenue, $750B market cap

Seems like a good argument that being tech-forward provides a multiplier on value versus doing the same old thing, if you believe that these are all just advertising companies.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by vonmoltke on Thursday February 15, 2018 @01:02PM (#16386086)
> Google: $110B revenue

Where did you get 110 from? I'm seeing 90 for last year.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by guyzero on Thursday February 15, 2018 @01:10PM (#16386166)
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by chillee on Thursday February 15, 2018 @01:33PM (#16386342)
That's all revenue, including non-advertising revenue.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by icebraining on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:26PM (#16387296)
True, the ad revenue was $95B.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by vonmoltke on Thursday February 15, 2018 @02:15PM (#16386659)
Yeah, I screwed up and was looking at the wrong number.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by tomc1985 on Thursday February 15, 2018 @01:54PM (#16386496)
Hardly a fair comparison, considering Google's extensive non-advertising product offerings
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by friday99 on Thursday February 15, 2018 @02:09PM (#16386611)
Those "other revenues" only account for about 13% of Google's revenue. So its a fair comparison. Google is almost 90% an advertising company.

https://abc.xyz/investor/pdf/2017Q4_alphabet_earnings_releas...

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by tomc1985 on Thursday February 15, 2018 @02:46PM (#16386918)
Yes because all those apps exist... to funnel people towards Google's extensive advertising network, so the money shows up as adbiz revenue instead of with products.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by freeone3000 on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:56PM (#16387560)
So, by pursuing other technological innovations, they are able to expand their advertising business?
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by tikhonj on Thursday February 15, 2018 @02:09PM (#16386607)
Extensive non-advertising product offerings that somehow don't translate into extensive non-advertising revenue...
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by guyzero on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:05PM (#16387106)
"if you believe that these are all just advertising companies."

I'm not the one calling Google an all-advertising company, I'm just saying that if it is, it's by far the biggest.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by vlovich123 on Thursday February 15, 2018 @12:31PM (#16385829)
Google.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by hammock on Thursday February 15, 2018 @12:53PM (#16386010)
By a factor of 30
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by ska on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:17PM (#16387207)
30? More like 5. Still a good point.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by hammock on Thursday February 15, 2018 @04:29PM (#16387810)
Revenue vs market cap
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by nopinsight on Friday February 16, 2018 @01:11AM (#16390296)
A major reason why upstarts like Netflix could successfully disrupt old guards, while banks and healthcare industries are still largely immuned despite huge inefficiencies in the way they operate, is the trust factor.

People don’t mind trying out a new entertainment service by a small startup especially they get a free trial month. If it breaks, so what? The same cannot be said about places they choose to manage their finances or health.

Perhaps it might be more promising for a new partnership by big-names in adjacent industries, such as the Amazon-Berkshire Hathaway-JP Morgan healthcare initiative, to disrupt these trust-based industries.

If there is a good way to accelerate the process of consumer trust building, it might allow more newcomers a chance of disruptions. It should result in lower costs and economic surpluses for the consumers. ‘How?’ is the 64-million-dollar question.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by justjico on Thursday February 15, 2018 @02:06PM (#16386584)
100% Agree. It’s like saying Coca-Cola is not a marketing company, they sell beverages. Or Apple is not a “design” company, they sell hardware. sigh
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by ucaetano on Thursday February 15, 2018 @02:50PM (#16386957)
> It’s like saying Coca-Cola is not a marketing company, they sell beverages.

They don't even sell beverages. Their (mostly) independently-owned bottlers do!

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by mywittyname on Thursday February 15, 2018 @06:23PM (#16388664)
>Coca-Cola is not a marketing company,

I never agreed with this mentality. Advertisement is Coke's cost center; it's not what they sell. They sell licensing rights to soft drinks: that's what makes them money.

Advertisement is a cost of having a customer facing brand. Should P&G and Unilever be considered advertisement companies?

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by jeremyjh on Thursday February 15, 2018 @06:58PM (#16388865)
> Should P&G and Unilever be considered advertisement companies?

Absolutely. The value of their businesses are entirely based on the brands that they have built, and those brands are built by advertising. Making food to stuff in the boxes is just a cost of building a successful brand.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by lojack on Thursday February 15, 2018 @09:01PM (#16389350)
But the brand itself doesn’t make them money. That doesn’t mean it isn’t valuable or even that it isn’t their biggest asset. What makes them money is people buying their product.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by heedlessly2 on Friday February 16, 2018 @08:37AM (#16392184)
Apple is a design company.

Foxconn, Qualcomm, and Samsung make their hardware.

Cognizan and InfoSys develop some of their software too.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by baybal2 on Thursday February 15, 2018 @07:00PM (#16388873)
You can fairly say that Coca cola is a packaging company.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by sbov on Thursday February 15, 2018 @01:54PM (#16386495)
Can't you play this definition game with any company though?

I kind of think that if an organization views tech as a competitive advantage and core competency, they are a tech company. E.g. Netflix may be in the business of entertainment, but they are also a tech company. Google may be in the business of selling ads, but they are also a tech company.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by madeofpalk on Thursday February 15, 2018 @02:52PM (#16386979)
Yes you can, and that's kind of the point.

Slowly but surely, more and more companies are realising that their digital efforts are just as integral to their business as whatever else it is that they're doing. Every company needs to be a tech company now.

In Australia, Commbank realised this at a very early stage: there's actually very little differentiation between the financial products from bank to bank. Sure, interest rates change here and there but on the whole, everyone is the same. Commbank realised that they can make their internet banking and mobile apps just as much as their core product and their differentiator. People aren't going to stay with their bank because of a debit card, but they will stay the one with the better app with more features. They rolled out a bunch of firsts - peer to peer payments by bumping phones together in 2010, transferring money to others using just their phone number, or 'Cardless Cash' where overnight they updated their network of ATMs to allow withdrawals using their phone app.

Qantas is another example of a company that invests (for better or worse) heavily into their digital products all throughout the customer journey.

Every company needs to be apt at digital because, in one way or another, every company is a tech company. It's the successful ones that realise this and use it to their advantage.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by photojosh on Monday February 19, 2018 @06:41PM (#16416687)
CommBank certainly did lead the pack, but they have become arrogant and complacent, IMHO. Two things that have driven us to leave them: rejecting Apple Pay, and cutting off feeds to accounting software from certain credit cards. We're leaving for a combination of a local credit union and an 'online-only' everyday banking account.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by zokier on Thursday February 15, 2018 @06:14PM (#16388628)
> Every company needs to be a tech company now.

I've heard this mantra for some years now (in various forms, eg "all companies are tech companies, or dying ones"), I wonder where it stems from.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by thephyber on Thursday February 15, 2018 @02:19PM (#16386684)
The way I read it, there is a management position of shunning new tech by saying "we are not a technology company". That statement can also be interpreted as "we are not an innovation company" which conveys an aversion to change.

I think the point of the GP is to say that Netflix "isn't a technology company", but they don't parade around saying that. Netflix uses technology and innovation to the fullest as the means to accomplish the ends of delivering great entertainment value at a low cost.

I don't think it's as much about the "definition game" as about the message that is conveyed.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by tmaly on Thursday February 15, 2018 @01:55PM (#16386508)
I work at a financial services company.

You simply cannot exist if you are not a tech company due to the complexity of the regulations.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by baybal2 on Thursday February 15, 2018 @06:55PM (#16388849)
>but their technology still is subservient to their non-tech business goals. While "software is eating the world" has been quoted to the point of being a cliché,

Better to say "software ate the world, but netflix has eaten the software" by almost singlehandedly wiping all its upstart competitors from "indigenous tech companies."

To some extend, Netflix deserve some credit for tech. A non-dotcom running tier one CDN is not a small deal.

Yet, they are still a small fish "in the bigger picture of things" though.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by _raoulcousins on Thursday February 15, 2018 @05:11PM (#16388230)
My employer uses the line to justify paying developers below market wages.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by heroprotagonist on Thursday February 15, 2018 @07:52PM (#16389112)
You'd think this would pay more, to make up for lack of supportive infrastructure and career opportunity.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by samstave on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:03PM (#16387087)
>"I like to respond that Netflix isn't a tech company, either—they're in the business of delivering entertainment."

knowing multiple people from netflix; this is literally a very-uninformed comment...

Much of what you even KNOW about cloud-computing, spot markets, streaming, CDNs, etc was pioneered by netflix.

They are secretive, but innovative as heck. So, your comment is a big NOPE.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by s73v3r_ on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:18PM (#16387219)
Right, but the purpose behind all of that was delivering entertainment. Hence, entertainment company.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by samstave on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:30PM (#16387323)
Fine. Ill concede that point.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by organsnyder on Thursday February 15, 2018 @03:43PM (#16387439)
That was my entire point. Netflix has introduced numerous innovations—many of which they've shared publicly—all while not making a dime (to my knowledge) from selling the software itself. Contrast that with a company like Microsoft, where software (either shrink-wrap, or as-a-service) is their core product.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by sidlls on Thursday February 15, 2018 @04:04PM (#16387612)
> Much of what you even KNOW about cloud-computing, spot markets, streaming, CDNs, etc was pioneered by netflix.

Let's not overstate the case. Much of this was around before (sometimes long before) Netflix's digital rise.

Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by megy on Thursday February 15, 2018 @05:09PM (#16388208)
Wow, I think you missed his point entirely.
Re:It's Getting Harder to Tell Banks from Tech Companies by opportune on Thursday February 15, 2018 @09:53PM (#16389518)
That was the entire premise. Netflix isn't a tech company in the same way banks aren't - technically. But obviously both functionally are since their entire businesses depend on their technology