Kei cars are designed for cities. These will likely be fine in dense areas on local surface streets where traffic is high.

Fine until they get crunched by a 6k lb Tahoe.

True of most everything

Not really. In something like a moderately new VW Golf you’ll likely be fine.

( cries in NA mx5 )

Miata is always gong to be rough because in a modern unibody a lot of the strength is in the roof.

NA Miata here in pickup truck heartland. Any other vehicle can kill you, even a Camry seems gargantuan. Just gotta drive smart and defensively. That said I’m more worried about no airbag and no roof protection way more than the type of cars around me. Gotta treat it like a 4 wheeled motorcycle.

Yeah that's exactly how I drive mine, luckily it's just a weekend car so the chances of someone not seeing me while driving is reduced.

I also maintain that 'loud pipes save lives' (lol), and being bright yellow does also add a little to it's visibility on the road.

>Just gotta drive smart and defensively.

If you're stopped at a red light behind a car or truck and someone on their phone plows into the back of your car there's no driving defensively to protect you. A modern car might save you. If the fun of driving a lightweight car is worth the safety issues that's fine, but you can not just drive defensively and solve those issues.

Perhaps a CDL should be required for the Tahoe.

And a wheel tax that scales with weight^4 just like the road wear it causes.

“You should have brought a bigger gun” -Americans

Light compared to the new 9K lb Cadillac Escalade EV.

And a Tahoe's fine until it gets crunched by an actual truck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TskUzmg6Sk

    > Kei cars are designed for cities.

Really? Says who? In Japan, in rich cities, most private drivers are driving regular-sized cards, not kei cars. Some small businesses use kei trucks for deliveries. When you go to the suburbs and countryside, it is mostly kei cars and trucks because the annual registration tax is much lower than a regular car. In short: They are cheaper to own. For normie drivers in Japan, a kei car is practical. If they could afford a regular-sized car, they would probably upgrade.

> In Japan, in rich cities, most private drivers are driving regular-sized cards, not kei cars.

I mean, "most private drivers" in Japan is a _tiny_ subset of people, no? Isn't a large part of that basically just rich people showing off?

Man, people are so clueless about Japan here on HN. Let me repeat what I have said so many times here before: All rich non-microstates are mostly driving except their biggest cities. And rich people in big cities mostly own cars. The urban car owner rides a train to work, but they drive on the weekends.

Yes, like most other rich countries, cars are a status symbol. Kei car/truck basically says you are middle class or below. Regular size car/van is the flex, especially German cars.

Most Westerners visit Central Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto and think all of Japan is that way. One big difference though is Japanese families will often get in one car together while Americans can often take more than one car between adults.

Even Japanese who grew up in Tokyo seem surprised that cars are a necessity out in the smaller cities.

Yet another clueless comment about Japan. Do you think the same applies for Parisians? "Even French who grew up in Paris seem surprised that ..."

All kinds of people who grew up in Tokyo are well aware that cars are required outside of a few big cities in Japan. Examples: (a) You have relatives that live in the countryside. (b) You take a family trip to the countryside for hiking or onsen/ryokan or skiing. (c) You watch NHK (public TV) about a small village.

Dude, I fucking live here.

I often get questions about train and bus coverage and they are surprised that you need a car in 2nd tier cities like Kobe, Nagoya or Matsumoto. They ‘know’ that having a car is convenient, they didn’t _understand_ that it was a necessity.

Don’t be that guy that thinks your experience of Japan is the only one.

> Regular size car/van is the flex, especially German cars.

Funniest thing my brother has sent me pictures of while living in Japan was a local guy in Nara who drove an imported H2 Hummer.

> If they could afford a regular-sized car, they would probably upgrade.

Cost is a major factor, but so is the convenience of driving (and parking) a car with a small foot print. Plenty of people who could afford a larger car opt to go with a kei car for that reason. My family has one large luxury car and one kei car, and for a lot of day-to-day stuff the kei car gets more use because it's more convenient to park or drive on narrow streets.

This is incorrect. I live in Japan. Many people buy kei cars for cities because they're cheap, small (Tokyo streets are sometimes super narrow) and enough for city driving. Kei cars are extremely common in cities, towns and suburbs.

I drove a Suzuki SuperCarry 999cc from Albany (western australia) to Perth, around 400km. I bought it from down there and figured I'd tow it back, but I discovered when I got there that the Carry was too narrow to actually get on the car trailer.

So I drove it the whole way. It was god awful - noisy, slow, every corner felt like it was picking up the wheels and about to roll over. But it was hilarious and definitely possible to do a trip like that lol.

MCM did a movie about driving a kei truck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tfSBS3HyTc ( 4X4 Adventure in a Sierra Jimny & JDM Kei Truck [OFF ROAD FEATURE FILM] )

> Kei cars are designed for cities.

1. The article is about kei trucks, not kei cars. different things. 2. Kei is Japanese regulatory category designed for Japan. Japan is a country with quite a bit of non city places where kei .* are quite popular.

Alphard and Velfire are designed for cities, ideally dense areas where driving them isolates you from high traffic and passers by you force to move out of your way.

In California, many local surface streets have speed limits above 35mph.

There is more than one concept called "city driving".

In terms of fuel economy (mileage), vehicles are typically tested and rated in at least two environments:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_automobiles#Di...

* "City driving" which means surface road speeds and the typical stop-and-go of traffic lights, stop signs and other controls.

* "Highway driving" which means, sustained speeds 55mph+ without the stop-and-go. This category is usually judged more efficient, especially for ICE vehicles.

Now, there may be other design considerations, such as "city vs. rural" if they're manufacturing tractors and combines vs. sports cars. And categories beyond these I've already mentioned. So when we say the vehicle is "designed for cities", do we mean that all of these boxes have been checked? Because in terms of fuel economy, "city driving" and "highway driving" both happen in cities.

That's what aftermarket Turbos (sold on eBay) are for.

I had a "car" with a 25mph limit back in 2005 or so, and it was awesome for my inner city living. I barely used my "real" car during the years I had it.

These Kei trucks are everywhere where I live (PNW). They seem like the ideal utility vehicle for city centres if you don’t need seating.

How much soil can a Kei truck handle with a 600lb payload. A single cubic yard of soil can weigh up to 2k lbs. Unless we're talking tiny trips to the farm supply store for a few bags, this ain't gonna handle much.

> How much soil can a Kei truck handle with a 600lb payload.

Probably about 600 lbs of soil. Nobody in the city is going to “farm supply stores”, whatever those are. If you live on a gigantic lot out in the boonies then by all means take your gigantic lifted dodge ram

Well, depends on the city. A popular chain in Iowa is 'Tractor Supply', in most towns. They have everything.

Iowa has exactly one city.

That’s why they call it Iowa City.

If you don't know what a farm supply store is (the PNW has got maaaany), then assessing the practicality of a truck's ability to haul soil probably isn't where you wanna start.

I have never heard the term “farm supply store” in my life, around here they call them garden centers.

Unless you mean a place for actual farm supplies, like commercial grade irrigation and stuff.

> Ps, "how much" was in reference to cubic feet. You usually don't buy soil by the pound haha.

Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer

FWIW, a farm supply store like Tractor Supply or Fleet Farm is not really a garden center, although they usually also carry gardening stuff. It's where you go to buy livestock feed [1], troughs, pasture seeds, tractor repair parts and some simpler implements etc.

1. Not to be confused with a feed mill which will typically only have livestock feed and in bulk for better pricing.

Okay well nobody in the city is buying livestock feed or pasture seeds in sufficient quantities that won’t fit into a kei truck.

> Probably about 600 lbs of soil. Nobody in the city is going to “farm supply stores”, whatever those are.

Eh I live in the city and last time I had 1200lb of mulch delivered it came from a depot like 10 minutes away, also in the city. Could have saved $100 by picking it up myself.

You should look up if your city has a “mulch yard” that produces and sells mulch. Many do, and it’s much cheaper than the bagged stuff. But it does come in bulk loads.

Some cities even give away mulch at recycling/compost centers.

Enough for small landscaping jobs.

That 600 lb payload is likely the legal rating - which is a limit the government imposes on kei trucks rather than what the truck is actually capable of. A bit like the "gentleman's agreement" in the past to limit cars to 276 HP that was, in reality, a lie. [1]

Daihatsu sells an "agriculture special" model Hijet with a special suspension that can carry far than 600 lbs [2]. During harvesting season, it's common to see them hauling around full sacks of rice which are rated for more than twice the legal limit [3]. A lot of the trucks that get imported to the US are probably the agriculture models.

The penalties for exceeding the weight limit can actually be pretty severe. But it seems police turn a blind eye to farmers making short trips to the processing plant on public roads.

[1] https://carbuzz.com/features/jdm-gentlemans-agreement-japane...

[2] https://www.daihatsu.co.jp/lineup/truck/02_grade.htm?item=5

[3] https://store.shopping.yahoo.co.jp/truetools/tnk-kaba-1300rc...

Out here in snow country, you’ll often see kei trucks carrying these giant snowblowers that weigh over 600kg[0], ferrying them between jobs.

[0]: https://www.honda.co.jp/snow/lineup/large/hsl2511-jr.html

Kei trucks are rated for 350kg so around 750lbs.

I ordered 1 yard of soil and loaded 30 of the 60 bags. It was a short trip but it did fine.

For scale, 30bags filled it to the top of the bed almost exactly. It was also really wet im sure I was pushing well over 1k lbs

I assume they are imports from Japan? If so, have they done any work on the body to make them safer in an accident?

Just don't crash and they're perfectly fine

I am unsure if this is sarcasm. As I understand, if you import a kei car/truck from Japan, it is not road-ready according to federal guidelines. There is some minor work that needs to be done. There are a bunch of YouTube videos that explain the rules and process.

> I am unsure if this is sarcasm

I'm unsure if you're serious.

If they’re big enough, they’re safe after you crash them as well. For you at least.

25mph is perfect for NYC where it's now the default top speed. There is a demand for smaller delivery and service vehicles in such a tight city.

Have you ever actually driven in NYC? To go anywhere other than the next block you're inevitably getting on some multi-lane connector or something where the speed is very much not 25mph.

You can count on your hand how many roads are 30/35mph, and those are virtually quasi-highways. Major roads like Ocean Parkway (bisects Brooklyn), Queens Blvd, Atlantic Ave, Pelham Parkway are all 25mph. You can very much get anywhere outside of Staten Island capped at 25mph.

There's a million interstate and state highways that criss cross the NYC area and you inevitably wind up on any given one for half a mile or something. When it's busy 25 is probably fine but there's also a lot of time when it's not.

I have a feeling you are extrapolating from either NJ or LI experience.

> unless you plan on staying on the farm

Yeah, many vehicles do stay on the farm. Some farms are also huge, so you'll see large farm equipment using the narrow back roads to move between fields. You'll see everything from huge equipment that almost blocks the road to little ATVs, all on the same roads with the cars. Everybody around here is used to being on a 45/55 mph speed limit road and coming across vehicles that cannot go that speed. It is just part of living in rural USA.

Can confirm. I live in SE Michigan in a small farming town and it's not unusual to see equipment going down the local highway (not the interstate; just the highway).

I think that's exactly what Toyota envisions: it's a farm/groundskeeping truck. That's why tons of them already get imported to the US. These aren't competing with cars, they're competing with Gators [1]

I know a kid who drove his tractor to school once in a while, it topped out at ~20. If dad had the truck and mom had the car, what else was he gonna do? Using a low-speed vehicle in a pinch is not a new idea to these trucks' target customers. Having such a vehicle but with A/C and airbags is probably a huge selling point, actually.

[1]: https://www.deere.com/en-us/products-and-solutions/gator-uti...

We have an old Kei truck on our farm, with HVAC though no airbags. The only reason I picked it over a UTV or similar is because it is still street legal here and does around 50mph. I can comfortably take it into town around 10 miles away, pick up supplies, and drive back with a tag on the back and keeping up with traffic.

If Scion limits the top speed to 25mph it'd be useless to me for our farm. I'd still rather buy an imported Honda Acty or Suzuki Carry for the price, if I'm lucky I'd find one with a hydrolic dump bed and still be cheaper than what Scion will likely be able to sell this for.

I suspect the price is gonna limit the retail appeal moreso than the speed. Used import trucks will probably cost less, but then the truck is your problem once it arrives here. An official manufacturer relationship will be appealing to fleet buyers.

I have zero concerns about the speed governor. That's gonna end up being a flash mod you can do yourself in your garage, I guarantee it. Worst case scenario, someone will start selling ECUs on eBay or something.

Being a Toyota I imagine it'll be pretty easy to disable the limiter, unless it's geared such that the engine is wound out at 25mph in top gear. But that seems unlikely, given how nonstandard the parts would have to be to make it happen. my hunch is the limit is electronically imposed and will therefore be hacked in short order.

>25 mph works for golf courses ...

Well thats a regulatory issue in the US. Without load, the truck without limiter will hapily do 50mph, and less happily 60+, although it might take you some time to get there.

The farmers in their tractors and the Amish in their buggies don't seem to mind going slow on the county highways. Send like this one is legally not allowed on the highway though

On many smaller roads in more rural areas farm equipment is already allowed to drive on those roads. This obviously excludes interstate highways.