News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by xgolwks on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:06PM (#44055026)
What the other commenters are forgetting is that this is the same Sam Altman who planned and executed the extraction of Reddit from Condé Nast.

This acquisition (and the Windsurf acquisition) are all-stock deals, which have the added benefit of reducing the control the nonprofit entity has over the for profit OpenAI entity.

How do you extract the for profit entity out of the hands of a nonprofit? - Step 1: you have close friends or partners at a company - with no product, users, or revenue - valued at 6.5billion. - Step 2: you acquire that entity, valuing it unreasonably high so that the nonprofit’s stake is diluted. - And now control of OpenAI (the PBC) is in the hands of for profit entities.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by tiffanyh on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:36PM (#44055376)
> Sam Altman who planned and executed the extraction of Reddit from Condé Nast

Relevant thread where Sam acknowledges the plan.

https://old.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/3cs78i/whats_the...

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by davidmurphy on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:53PM (#44055581)
whoa!!
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by echelon on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:26PM (#44055952)
Posted by former CEO Yishan Wong, no less.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by 52-6F-62 on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:42PM (#44056122)
What the fuck
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by dgfitz on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:56PM (#44056245)
Just remember, AI is real, next token predictors are a thing of the past. SA doesn’t care about control, this is for the good of all mankind.

_vomit face_

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by NicuCalcea on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:55PM (#44056243)
> Other than that, child's play for me.

Such an insufferable response.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by ctkhn on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:47PM (#44056613)
Conner Omalley character stuff
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by yen223 on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:11PM (#44056371)
Am I the only one who read samaltman's comment as obvious sarcasm?
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by firtoz on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:42PM (#44056583)
Or they're bragging.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by Jarwain on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:31PM (#44056493)
I mean no, but it could also be plausible deniability?
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by abxyz on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:36PM (#44056539)
it’s not true, contemporaneous accounts disprove it (although that’s not to say Sam Altman is not a snake, Sam Altman is a snake that nobody should trust)
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by -__---____-ZXyw on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @06:10PM (#44056777)
Hear hear. If the AGI doesn't work out, as it likely won't, he can always run for mayor of Wexford Town
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by baxtr on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @06:00PM (#44056715)
The only thing I still find good about SA is his opposition to Musk.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by GuinansEyebrows on Thursday May 22, 2025 @12:38PM (#44063750)
Eh. The petty squabbles of the wealthy usually aren't for the right reasons. Rich dicks just don't like people they view as competitors.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by baxtr on Thursday May 22, 2025 @01:55PM (#44064731)
True… but do reasons matter in that case?
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by GuinansEyebrows on Thursday May 22, 2025 @04:05PM (#44066272)
the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend :)
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by brap on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:10PM (#44055779)
Sam also ran a crypto scam called WorldCoin. Their secret sauce was tricking poor people in Africa.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by moralestapia on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:15PM (#44055836)
>ran

Nope [1].

1: https://world.org/

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by Gothmog69 on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:19PM (#44055876)
How did they trick them by giving them free money?
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by s_ting765 on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:29PM (#44055975)
Free crypto. There's a difference.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by HenryBemis on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:34PM (#44056041)
They are paying 'one worldcoin' (I've read sold about $50) to places that give zero value to their privacy (too difficult to care for privacy when starving to death and the monthly salary is $10). They are targeting poor countries (South America, Africa).

Once they have collected 'enough' faces to use on their AI, they could possibly pull the plug or keep it as a social experiment.

I was thinking, there is no way Russia or China will allow them to operate in their countries, and (combined) they got 1.5bn people.

I can also see them trying that to Pakistan, Afghanistan, and other autocratic ..stan places, where the local dictator would only allow this if they got to use the data for their own nefarious purposes.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by tim333 on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:00PM (#44056289)
I signed up in London. It's coming to the US shortly. You give up very little privacy - you don't even have to give your name.

Most people calling it a scam don't know much about it.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by GolfPopper on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:24PM (#44056447)
You just give up a little freedom for a little security?
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by tim333 on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @06:07PM (#44056753)
I'm not aware of giving up any freedom. Or getting security. I got about $300 in cash equivalent in their cryptocoins and a tech toy - it's basically a combo app and crypto wallet.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by bigyabai on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:35PM (#44056060)
TINSTAAFL
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by FeepingCreature on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @08:30PM (#44057602)
They don't know how but they know it has to be a scam because it's crypto. That's all the thought that's gone into it.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by latexr on Thursday May 22, 2025 @02:55AM (#44059444)
It’s not a scam because it’s a cryptocurrency, it’s a scam because it works like one. This has been covered at length by multiple investigative journalists.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/richardnieva/worldcoin-...

https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/04/06/1048981/worldcoi...

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by echelon on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:30PM (#44055995)
Growing up in a strong Southern Christian / Baptist / Pentecostal household [1], WorldCoin feels like the most "Mark of the Beast" plot I've ever seen. 1990's televangelists like John Hagee and Pat Robertson would be screaming to high heaven about Sam Altman being the antichrist if they were still around.

Transacting with your eyeball? Directly out of the Book of Revelations!

[1] I took a strong interest in biochemistry in college and I'm no longer religious.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by mgiampapa on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:34PM (#44056039)
Signing posts with a hash tied to a thing that might prove you are human instead of a LLM astroturfing might actually be a good value proposition for blockchain.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by jazzyjackson on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:50PM (#44056639)
Why would I trust the entry on the blockchain? I'd rather just trust the government body issuing my ID. Estonia has had it for years, it's amazing that here in USA people send contracts over email and just click a button to "sign" it - Adobe at least allows actual PKI signatures but there's not really a registry to verify it against so useless in most cases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_identity_card

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by mgiampapa on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:56PM (#44056693)
Yeah, the US is a backwards economy and clearly isn't successful with all it's rules and that silly Bill Clinton era digital signature law isn't pulling it's weight. It's been solidly eclipsed by Estonian technical superiority.

I would trust a blockchain more than my government. My government has clearly been shown to be vulnerable to a < 51% attack. Blockchains don't change every 4 years and decide habeas corpus no longer applies to me because my skin is the wrong color either.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by treyd on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:33PM (#44056509)
You don't need a blockchain for that, just cryptographic signatures and PKI. The EU is implementing a system for national IDs that would enable this, and could be done with perfect privacy through zero-knowledge proofs.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by tlb on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:54PM (#44056675)
Yes, if every government was reliably incorruptible, they could also work together to build a global human verification network.

I predict that Worldcoin will get it done first, and will be more dependable than most countries. But it could turn out otherwise. In the end, services that need humanity verification will have multiple provider options and the market will decide.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by sigmaisaletter on Thursday May 22, 2025 @07:25AM (#44060955)
Worldcoin is and always will be opt-in.

Government solutions will be opt-out, and only in the most tedious way: Leaving the country, burning your passport and becoming a stateless person. Not recommended.

If there ever was a moat, government has it.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by mgiampapa on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:50PM (#44056646)
That doesn't really scale to the 3rd world as a form of identity validation. I'm sure there is more than one way to do it, I'm just saying it's a way to do it.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by ssabev on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:49PM (#44056180)
Came here to agree.

Initially I thought it's a bloody stupid idea, however at this stage I reckon we need it or a lot of boomers are going to be ones hotted into singing away all their wealth away.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by Henchman21 on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:56PM (#44056695)
Aaah, now you see the plan clearly.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by 52-6F-62 on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:43PM (#44056135)
My body does that for me…
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by mgiampapa on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:45PM (#44056150)
Nope, this is the internet. I know you are a cat in a tube. The internet is full of them, like dump trucks.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by 52-6F-62 on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:01PM (#44056292)
HN is dead
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by GeoAtreides on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:30PM (#44056486)
september is the cruelest month
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by Henchman21 on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:57PM (#44056699)
It’s so much longer than the other months!
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by cjohnson318 on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @06:03PM (#44056732)
Yeah same here. My dad has been talking about the End Times and the Mark of the Beast for 40 years now. Now, in addition to all that, it's Q-ANON and MAGA. Fun times. Liberal police are coming for your guns and your Bible, you heard it here first.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by jazzyjackson on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:47PM (#44056619)
Also a plot point in Arnold Schwarzenegger's The Sixth Day, where his eyeballs get scanned as a matter of course before transporting a VIP, (sign here, eyeballs here please, thank you) and later used to clone him.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by subsaharancoder on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:42PM (#44056120)
John Hagee is very much alive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hagee
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by echelon on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @06:20PM (#44056860)
That guy scared me as a kid.

He always said wild stuff like, (paraphrasing) "If you think or say anything bad about the holy ghost, you'll be doomed to hell forever."

Scary stuff as a kid.

ChatGPT says,

> Pastor John Hagee has addressed the gravity of blaspheming the Holy Spirit in his sermons. In his message titled “Seven Kinds of People God Cannot Save,” he emphasizes that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin. Citing Matthew 12:31–32, he warns that mocking or criticizing the works of the Holy Spirit is perilous and unforgivable. He states, “You be very careful when you open your mouth to criticize a genuine move of God. You’re walking on very dangerous ground.”

> This perspective aligns with the biblical passage in Matthew 12:31–32, where Jesus declares that while all other sins and blasphemies may be forgiven, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, neither in this age nor in the age to come.

Eternal damnation thoughtcrimes are terrifying stuff for a kid.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by hn_acc1 on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:03PM (#44056303)
I mean, on the one hand, sure, but on the other hand - the "anointed one" himself, DJT, is pushing AI, so I'm sure it will be fine. Unlike that heathen Joe Biden who attends more church services in a month than DJT in a year. And as I eventually learned (grew up similar to yourself, but german pentecostal in canada, also exvangelical now), if they are against helping people and against welfare/basic human rights/basic income/equality, they're truly christians in the eyes of those telegelicals. I guess somehow the "you will always have the poor among you, me you will not always have" quote from Jesus means that to be "a biblical nation", we have to ensure there are always poor people..
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by AStonesThrow on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:32PM (#44056018)
I mean, it was difficult for people to ignore a company that sold their first computer for a retail price of $666 and chose as their logo a rainbow fruit with a single chomp on the side.

And then rose up in competition against a company whose logo is literally a cross, and code-named an OS "Chi-Rho" [Cairo, XP] -- yes, it's a little "on the nose" by now.

It's also a hoot to just see LDS missionaries waiving their iPhones around with the Genesis Apple clearly visible. To be honest, as a Catholic I have seen no overtly demonic or Antichrist features in Apple Computer themselves, and frankly most tech companies try to adapt postures as agnostic and irreligious anyway, just due to globalism and market share. The {Free|Open|Net}BSD daemons and logo/mascots have long been subsumed into Apple's juggernaut anyway!

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by travem on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:30PM (#44056489)
> It's also a hoot to just see LDS missionaries waiving their iPhones around with the Genesis Apple clearly visible.

To be fair, the LDS doctrine around the fruit from the Garden of Eden and the fall is quite different from the Catholic understanding, it’s seen as a necessary, even a good thing, in the overall plan.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by AStonesThrow on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:35PM (#44056525)
> quite different from the Catholic understanding

Oh? And what do you believe is the Catholic understanding?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_culpa

https://www.usccb.org/prayer-worship/liturgical-year/easter/...

O truly necessary sin of Adam,

destroyed completely by the Death of Christ!

O happy fault

that earned so great, so glorious a Redeemer!

To be honest, I would say that these signs placed by Apple Computer were done not out of malice, but by way of warning. To say, "Here Be Dragons!" To counsel those who may be ignorant, there are pitfalls ahead, and be careful, because you could lose your soul to these things, even though they are designed as morally neutral.

Computers are a tool, after all. The fruit depicted could just as easily be from the Tree of Life. It's all about how we use those tools.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by twodave on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @06:44PM (#44057008)
I would argue that it’s likely there was no Biblical reference intended, but that even if it was, it’s then more likely the apple is a reference to “knowledge” (as in, the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil) than a vague warning about using their products.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by jazzyjackson on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:52PM (#44056658)
Could also just be to show up first in the yellow pages

Also tools are not neutral, they carry the intent of their designer and make whatever they are designed to do easier than it used to be; if you want to be convinced please read Douglas Rushkoff's Program or Be Programmed: Ten Commands for a Digital Age

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by GolfPopper on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:23PM (#44056437)
Runs, I think. WorldCoin is still around, just re-branded as 'World Network'. I didn't spot the usual leadership bios on a quick search.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by DrBurrito on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:08PM (#44055751)
My understanding is that there are two types of stock, and the non profit controls the voting stock majority. This cannot be diluted. All other stock gives a (capped) fraction of the profits. This cannot be diluted by these operations, but the cap also can be a bad deal.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by tgma on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:12PM (#44055800)
This is news to me. Do you have any reference for this? FWIW they did a restructuring that got rid of the capped-profit regime very recently.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by DrBurrito on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:53PM (#44056217)
Ah right, the restructuring seems to change some things:

From here: https://openai.com/index/evolving-our-structure/

The nonprofit will continue to control the PBC, and will become a big shareholder in the PBC, in an amount supported by independent financial advisors, giving the nonprofit resources to support programs so AI can benefit many different communities, consistent with the mission. And as the PBC grows, the nonprofit’s resources will grow, so it can do even more. We’re excited to soon get recommendations from our nonprofit commission on how we can help make sure AI benefits everyone—not just a few. Their ideas will focus on how our nonprofit work can support a more democratic AI future, and have real impact in areas like health, education, public services, and scientific discovery.

The previous structure is here: https://openai.com/our-structure/

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by tgma on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:00PM (#44056285)
I don't interpret that paragraph as non-dilutive. It's to say that the parent is just a regular shareholder currently holding the majority and then weasels away with "more resources as valuation growth" which is true in absolute mark-to-market sense, not relative ownership, but I don't think they have free cash to pony up and exercise any first right of refusal even if they have something like that on a pro-forma basis, so unless the non-profit board is adamant on voting against all capital raises and stock-based acquisitions and employee stock (they won't), their ownership share will be diluted.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by DrBurrito on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:12PM (#44056379)
Yes, that is the new one.

From what I understand reading Mat Levine explanation of the topic, the non-profit controls the board and has supervoting rights, so it cannot be diluted to be outed.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/newsletters/2025-05-06/ope...

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by tgma on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:20PM (#44056417)
Gosh, that was a very hard article to decipher for me, initially consisting of the author's own view on what should've been, old conversion plans that did not happen, and in the end alluding to what actually happened, except he also has no additional facts to offer, and it is his own speculation that the non-profit holds supervoting shares. I would totally not base an analysis on the author's mere educated guesses.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by DrBurrito on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:43PM (#44056586)
The gist is that the nonprofit still controls the board. The details of course are surely full of technicalities I cannot find anywhere. At least to me, the walkthrough was useful to see what changed.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by tgma on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:54PM (#44056686)
"Still" == as of the conversion date. We don't know as of today since have been additional capital raises and acquisitions.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by SlimIon729 on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:19PM (#44055882)
That's an interesting point about the different stock classes and voting rights. It adds another layer to how these kinds of acquisitions and valuations might play out in the long run, especially concerning the non-profit's influence. How often are such dual-class stock structures truly effective in maintaining the original mission when large sums and external valuations come into play?
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by DrBurrito on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:03PM (#44056306)
The case of OpenAI is very unique. The structure is very successful. See Meta, Google, Palantir.

Some take the form of different stock classes, with some classes having voting rights, and others no vote at all; other schemes are stock with supervoting rights.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by JamesBarney on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:41PM (#44056568)
This is 100% definitely how it works. The number of board seats the non-profit gets is not dependent on how many outstanding shares there are.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by neves on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:19PM (#44055169)
One of the most informative posts here. I thought that since Altman's coup the no profit status wouldn't be a problem.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by tgma on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:08PM (#44055755)
It's interesting I posted exactly this hypothesis an hour or so ago and immediately got flagged despite not being manifestly offensive or anything. Very suspicious.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44054452

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by spruce_tips on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:28PM (#44055974)
interesting, but not surprising
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by bloqs on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:32PM (#44056022)
Yeah, that is extremely suspect...
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by neves on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @09:44PM (#44057975)
Like posting something minimally critical of AWS in its subreddit
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by catigula on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:32PM (#44055321)
That is interesting given that reddit has gone from a cultural powerhouse to something most people talk about shamefully, if at all.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by haunter on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:53PM (#44055582)
>something most people talk about shamefully, if at all

Only if you go there for rage bait content.

Small subs are better than ever. And no Lemmy is not an alternative.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by OsrsNeedsf2P on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:11PM (#44055794)
> And no Lemmy is not an alternative.

Which is sad - I've been using Lemmy exclusively for 5ish years now and the smaller communities haven't really taken root. Reddit still controls the long tail of internet discourse

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by whalesalad on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:56PM (#44055629)
until you get shadowbanned. my 15+ year account is dead because I logged-out of the iOS app and logged-in to the web app on my phone, it triggered the suspicious/spam filter and boom I am dead. tried many times to get it restored, no dice.

the funny thing is the only indication that this happened was keybase alerting me that my proof was gone.

I can login and use reddit as usual, but nothing I do has any effect. It's like I am in a sandbox. Try to view my profile publicly and it does not exist.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by sigmaisaletter on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:33PM (#44056032)
I am a serial account-hopper, so this couldn't happen to me, so perhaps I don't understand the point at all.

But what is keeping you from making a new account and rejoining the same subreddits, except perhaps losing a hundred million magic internet points?

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by 7speter on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:59PM (#44056274)
Usually, if you have an account that old, you built up enough karma, especially in subs you’re a regular on, to speak your mind and absorb being downvoted heavily multiple times over. Its not worth it spending time to be able to do that again on a site that is increasingly astroturfed.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by karn97 on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:22PM (#44055918)
Only if you dislike free speech and love insta permanent bans which track you across google accounts and installations. Intrusive garbage.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by davidcbc on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:27PM (#44055955)
Which speech got you banned? Be specific
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by torginus on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:43PM (#44056130)
I for example, got permabanned from one of the major politics subreddits.

Basically what happened was I wrote a post, and some guy responded to me with a firehose of personal insults. I called him a troll in reply, and within 30 seconds of posting said reply, I was permabanned as a first offense, without any possibility of appeal.

Mods be powertrippin over there.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by davidcbc on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @06:12PM (#44056792)
Being banned from a subreddit is different from a permaban from reddit that "tracks you across google accounts"
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by pesus on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @06:45PM (#44057018)
I'm guessing that person signed up with a Google account that was connected to other Google accounts, and when they tried to make a new account it was flagged as "ban evasion".
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by to11mtm on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:44PM (#44056136)
I'll give my example, although it's a bit out of place on my part...

/r/news locked/suppressed [0] as 'Politics'.

I sent a Message to modmail:

Me: Calling this 'politics' makes me ask who's on the an alphabet payroll... Just saying.

Reply from modmail: This message makes us think you haven't bothered to read the rules... Just saying.

Then I was muted from /r/new modmail for 28 days, while also being perma-banned from /r/news.

Months layer, I had left a normal comment on a different thread with a 'mobile' secondary account on /r/news, and found both my desktop and mobile accounts locked for 7 days because the /r/news comment was considered 'ban evasion'. Despite having otherwise commented on /r/news from my mobile account in the meantime with no repercussions.

It was within the subreddit rules and reddit TOC to do all of this, I acknowledge, at the same time it's almost like Reddit is hitting that vibe of StackOverflow from a few years ago where mods can just power trip and make the place less useful for everyone...

[0] https://old.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1es7sbp/us_considers_...

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by pesus on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @06:43PM (#44057005)
Just adding to the noise, but the thing that finally got my 15+ year old account banned was reporting some blatantly racist comments. Apparently if a subreddit mod agrees with the reported comment, they can just report you for "abusing the report system". The original comment never got removed, of course.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by xdennis on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:38PM (#44056083)
Not the same person, but as an example, I got banned from r/europe for posting just "I'm proud to be a Romanian!". That was on a post about Romania overtaking Poland to become number one at some anti-woke metric western Europeans care a lot about.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by LtWorf on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:47PM (#44056167)
Not supporting a certain genocide often gets people banned.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by cosmicgadget on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:16PM (#44056398)
Depending on who you ask, Reddit either doesn't tolerate criticism of Palestine or it doesn't tolerate criticism of Israel.

It is almost like there are many opinions in that place.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by nailer on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:55PM (#44056242)
I think you're provably wrong about their being a genocide, even using Hamas' most recently adjusted casualty numbers [1] https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/defense-news/article-84859... [2] https://www.vox.com/world-politics/2024/5/17/24159263/gaza-d... if you prefer a left wing source, but also you should be able to say that (without being banned from the entire site) so that we can debate and you don't feel like your voice is being silenced.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by 34679 on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @06:59PM (#44057109)
>The Israeli military has admitted that more than 80 percent of the people killed in the attacks on Gaza since Israel breached the ceasefire two months ago are uninvolved civilians, Hamakom reported on 13 May.

https://thecradle.co/articles-id/30708

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by nailer on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @07:56PM (#44057450)
I have no idea who Hamakom (the original source for this info) is, but a secondary source that quotes “Gaza Ministry of Health” without identifying that this is Hamas like say WSJ does is not likely to be a quality publication.

Update: translated Hamakom article - you can judge for yourself whether you think this is a reliable source of information: https://www-ha--makom-co-il.translate.goog/1058990-2/?_x_tr_... “ IDF and Shin Bet in joint statement: The war is pointless and everything is stupid” doesn’t convince me, likewise whatever they’re trying to say about Natanyahu’s wife.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by elktown on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:46PM (#44056606)
So, if it hasn't been already been passed, where's your limit?
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by nailer on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @06:21PM (#44056866)
I'm not sure, but the lowest combatant:civilian combat ratio in any modern conflict is not it.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by ada1981 on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:43PM (#44056589)
As far as I can tell, pretty much every org or governing body that can classify something as a "genocide" have already done so.

That said, getting into an argument over which word to classify the senseless murder of innocent men, women, children, journalist, medics, etc. in the context of a multi-decade illegal occupation, seems like a distraction.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by nailer on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @06:22PM (#44056876)
No. The ICC President even came out and explicitly corrected people that were claiming the ICC ruled that Israel was causing a genocide due to the influx on online conspiracy theorists. Anyway, this is slightly offtopic re: Reddit moderation.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by LtWorf on Thursday May 22, 2025 @12:15AM (#44058726)
You already have all the sources you need. You're just ignoring them for reasons I don't know, and I am not interested in playing this game with you, since I've already seen your Zionist comments on this website in the past.

Follow the sources here in case you're interested in having some sources. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by tomhow on Thursday May 22, 2025 @02:08AM (#44059214)
Hacker News is not the place to try and resolve this matter.

Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents.

Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by tomhow on Thursday May 22, 2025 @02:08AM (#44059212)
Hacker News is not the place to try and resolve this matter.

Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents.

Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by nailer on Thursday May 22, 2025 @08:57AM (#44061602)
Yes Tom, I'm aware. My post was pointing out that while I vehemently disagree with the OP, but still support his right to have an account on Reddit. As I've mentioned elsewhere the discussion re: the genocide hoax is off topic regarding Reddit account bans, and I wish people would stop replying to me with their own takes.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by busymom0 on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @06:14PM (#44056819)
A post of mine in the bodybuilding subreddit was removed after 55 points and all 29 comments removed because the mods made up an entirely arbitrary new rule that there should be only one post about a recent bodybuilding show. The subreddit rules had no such thing. They just made it up. When I messaged the mods, they banned me from messaging them. Huh?

Another example:

Apple subreddit allows developers to self-promote their apps on Sundays. I posted an app of mine. Mods removed it and banned me for 100 days from the subreddit because I had 4 comments within the last month and not 5. This is despite me having lots more comments and posts (multiple posts/comments over 7000 points) over 7 years and in last 2 months instead of last 1 month.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by nailer on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:52PM (#44056212)
For me, I've been banned for:

"Hamas must be destroyed"

and

"JK Rowling doesn't want men in women's bathrooms"

Edit: I'm not complaining about moderation do what you want, but the statement above is true, I have been banned for writing those things, and if anyone has any experience with Reddit, it should be fairly believable that Reddit would ban an account for writing them.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by tomhow on Thursday May 22, 2025 @02:11AM (#44059222)
This invited a flamewar. Please don't do this here.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44055918 and marked it off topic.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by tomhow on Thursday May 22, 2025 @02:17AM (#44059261)
Please don't fulminate.

Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents.

Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by bigyabai on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:47PM (#44056165)
No, Reddit is still shameful. The central issue ruins everything, moderation is placed on a pedestal beyond reproach even when it's trying to sabotage it's own community! The only point Reddit staff will ever step in is when these subreddits try to protest and threaten their bottom-line. They would rather run a pyramid scheme that's profitable, than address the central governance crisis.

You can't "no true scotsreddit" your way out of this issue because it's an overarching issue with the platform itself. Even 4chan has more better protection against influence campaigns, it's pathetic how Reddit's own administration lets itself be defined by it's lowest-common-denominator.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by kjkjadksj on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:49PM (#44056185)
Small subs are worse than ever IMO. Either totally dead or they hit a critical mass where product shills have come in and established the dogma of the subreddit.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by ks2048 on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:27PM (#44056470)
I don't know if reddit is better than ever, but the continued existence and popularity of old.reddit.com seems to be a sign that it is not well-run. (in the sense of they wrecked their UX years ago and never fixed it).
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by boramalper on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @06:07PM (#44056758)
> And no Lemmy is not an alternative.

Depends on the community we're talking about here but I found Lemmy to be a great alternative for tech communities.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by jrvieira on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @06:13PM (#44056808)
> Only if you go there for rage bait content

The app is not impartial in the content it chooses to push. I got identified as a target for very specific content and in the context of this discussion, it's the polar opposite of what reddit used to be.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by rafram on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:46PM (#44055503)
Really? My perception (and their metrics seem to back this up) is that “normal people” are really on Reddit now. It’s the #7 most visited site in the world. It exploded during the pandemic - not just a site for internet nerds anymore.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by BeFlatXIII on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:16PM (#44055840)
Which is why it's garbage these days.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by noir_lord on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:53PM (#44055583)
Not even a site for internet nerds anymore.

Reddit isn’t for me any longer, when they break old.reddit.com I’m done with it, I go weeks without commenting as it is.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by yamazakiwi on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:29PM (#44055983)
yeah I thought it was going to break during the API scandal and ended up quitting then. I noticed an immediate improvement in my day to day mood when I wasn't consuming rage/cringe/sorrow bait.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by mrguyorama on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:45PM (#44056152)
It DID break.

A significant amount of the current content is literally bots posting old threads! Whether those bots are run by reddit itself or unaffiliated parties I don't know, but they are there, on most threads, including some threads that are ONLY bots reposting a 3 year old thread that did well, verbatim.

My tinfoil hat theory is that all the "Explain this (very obvious) joke to me" subreddits are trying to create training data for some AI and that a significant amount of the content that makes it to the front page is designed to elicit "Good Training Data" for whatever AI company they sold the rights to.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by gibbitz on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:56PM (#44055619)
Everyone ads reddit to their searches to get human generated information these days. Not sure if that's still a guarantee, but it's a funny irony IRT what this thread is about...
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by catigula on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:20PM (#44055890)
My perception is that the site is horrifically partisan and punishing for average users.

The key is to not mistake your social circle with "normal".

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by torginus on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:04PM (#44056310)
Truth be told, according to stats, 90+% of the people barely post anything, if at all. To experience the horrific moderation, you need to get actively involved. Otherwise, the site looks like organic consensus, when you don't see the deleted posts and people who got disappeared or driven away.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by to11mtm on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:46PM (#44056163)
My dangerous question.... how much of those 'visits' are AI bot crawlers?

Based on their other behavior, it wouldn't surprise me if Reddit both used crawler hits to pump up numbers while decrying AI bots and doing things that broke long-standing community tooling and apps....

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by dyauspitr on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:52PM (#44055566)
It has gone from a cultural powerhouse for a niche audience to something most people talk about.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by thunkingdeep on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:34PM (#44055348)
The only people I’ve ever known who actually thought Reddit ever really mattered was people in the HN sphere. Anecdata, but still. In terms of value per minute spent, it’s the same tier of slop as TikTok or Instagram, and I think most ordinary people hold that same view.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by thinkingtoilet on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:44PM (#44055471)
The organizations/nation states/whatever who astroturf on reddit disagree with you. It definitely matters in shaping opinions. It's not as influential as tiktok of course, but that doesn't mean it's not influential.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by thunkingdeep on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:46PM (#44055493)
By that measure, the benches on my local sidewalks are of cultural importance.

You can spew ads and shit wherever they’ll let you, doesn’t enrich the environment by default.

I get what you mean, but I’m still unconvinced of Reddit as a meaningful platform.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by portaouflop on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:02PM (#44055693)
what happens on the street is obviously of cultural importance
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by thunkingdeep on Thursday May 22, 2025 @09:22AM (#44061810)
Yeah? I saw a homeless guy shit into the storm drain the other day. I’ll send you the picture… since it’s so culturally important
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by impossiblefork on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:29PM (#44055980)
For mass shaping tiktok is probably more effective, but Reddit probably shapes people more deeply, since there's actual discussion.

I think people are more critical in this discussion though, so that an apparent consensus may be interpreted by the user as the thread being bot-infested rather than there being a consensus. Thus it may be harder to get a result there, and the really interesting people that you may want to affect might actually be immune because they approach the medium as critically as it should be.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by LtWorf on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:53PM (#44056215)
On reddit opposing point of views get instabanned. The discussion is just between people who already agree.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by cosmicgadget on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @06:09PM (#44056768)
*on/from particular subreddits
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by impossiblefork on Thursday May 22, 2025 @04:32AM (#44060001)
Only in places like /r/worldnews.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by LtWorf on Thursday May 22, 2025 @06:34PM (#44067889)
Also r/sverige r/sweden r/italy are very one sided. The right wing governments of those countries are finally now having some useless words about israel, but it will take a long time before the mods adapt.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by impossiblefork on Friday May 23, 2025 @07:15AM (#44071775)
/r/Sverige is absolutely astroturfed, but if you ignore the obvious astroturfers you can have real discussion there, because you won't be banned.

/r/Sweden bans people, but is less astroturfed and you can still have real discussion there, except when the drug-liberals (for Americans speakers, think drug-libertarians) and other goons come out of their hiding holes.

I don't think either subreddit cares about Israel stuff at all, and they certainly don't care about what any Swedish government thinks. In both, everyone gets to have their say, whether he's Israeli public diplomacy or Qatari public diplomacy, although bots will of course downvote, and Reddit itself will sometimes remove comments.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by askafriend on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:36PM (#44055366)
Yes, TikTok and Instagram...some of the most valuable media, entertainment and communication businesses in history.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by runjake on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:40PM (#44055420)
I can't tell. Are you countering OP's point or pointing out that slop is a lucrative business?
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by askafriend on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:45PM (#44055490)
Look the reality is yes Instagram and TikTok have extremely problematic incentives built into their products. But they're also remarkably useful, entertaining, and fun products too. Both are true.

Do you think multi-billion-user products can exist without "slop"? What do you think the average person wants to consume? The equivalent of salad? Have you met the average person?

I think people have fundamental misconceptions of the average person's desire.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by vipshek on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:38PM (#44055406)
I find this perspective bizarre. Though I'm not happy about it all being centralized, the closest thing we have these days to the very niche phpBB forums of the 2000s is various subreddits focused on very specific topics. Scrolling through the front page is slop, sure, but whenever I'm looking for perspectives on a niche topic, searching for "<topic> reddit" is the first thing I do. And I know many people without any connection to the software industry who feel the same way.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by rambambram on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:22PM (#44055913)
I would love to have some directory with all kinds of active (PHP) web forums. That was the heyday of the open web for me.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by ryoshu on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:40PM (#44055428)
Major advertisers are trying to figure out Reddit now, but it's a mixed bag and the costs are high compared to other platforms. It's no longer a niche.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by scottyah on Thursday May 22, 2025 @05:53PM (#44067550)
I think they've found it in the form of astroturfing. A medium length post hyping up some brand is so common you've probably seen thousands
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by Jaxkr on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:41PM (#44055444)
> In terms of value per minute spent, it’s the same tier of slop as TikTok or Instagram

Insane take. Reddit hosts deep threaded discussions on almost any topic imaginable. In its prime it was the best forum on the internet. There’s a reason people commonly add “reddit” to the end of their search queries.

Unfortunately it feels like the community has gotten much dumber after they banned third party apps and restricted API access. It’s also lost almost all of its Aaron Swartz style hacktivist culture.

Reddit, in its prime, was incredible and beloved by almost everyone I know (most of which are far outside the HN sphere)

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by JFingleton on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:49PM (#44055532)
It feels like all those hacktivists moved to Discord... Which is even more "locked away" than Reddit.

I miss the old skool php web forums.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by portaouflop on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:04PM (#44055708)
There are still many around - most of them die because admins give up or users leave - if you actually miss them it should be easy to find some for your interests
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by rambambram on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:24PM (#44055931)
I would love to have some directory with all kinds of active (PHP) web forums. That was the heyday of the open web for me.

Do you have any tips on how to specifically search for these forums? Without just googling for topics and browsing hours to find some. When I think about it, just googling/searching might be the only way.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by breppp on Saturday May 24, 2025 @04:22PM (#44083574)
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by rambambram on Tuesday May 27, 2025 @05:23AM (#44105273)
Nice one, thanks!
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by leptons on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:48PM (#44055519)
>The only people I’ve ever known who actually thought Reddit ever really mattered was people in the HN sphere.

Most of reddit doesn't read HN, and there 100s of millions of people on reddit, so your perspective seems a bit narrow.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by some_random on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:48PM (#44055526)
I have no idea how anyone could have seriously tried to use reddit and be on HN and come to that conclusion. Yes some of the reddit defaults are slop but many clearly have significantly more value than short form video, and that's before you start discussing the niche communities that live there.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by rexer on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:46PM (#44055504)
Odd. Your take is the one I see most common on HN. My experience has been that Reddit has gone mainstream and most people find it quite valuable
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by pessimizer on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @08:50PM (#44057705)
> The only people I’ve ever known who actually thought Reddit ever really mattered was people in the HN sphere.

They said the same thing about Quora and 3d TV.

That being said, TikTok and Instagram matter. Reddit probably matters more because it's so easy for motivated people and corporations to manipulate discussions on it; it's even weaker than Wikipedia.

50x as many people read Reddit than post on Reddit, and 10x as many people as read Reddit have gotten their opinions indirectly from people passing on stuff they (can't remember that they) saw on Reddit (but think they learned somewhere legitimate.)

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by bongodongobob on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:26PM (#44056464)
Culture powerhouse? Lol, for nerds maybe. I'm pretty sure most of my non tech friends have never visited the site.
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by KPGv2 on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:25PM (#44055227)
Who actually did the purchasing, the non-profit or the for-profit? They have similar names (OpenAI Inc vs OpenAI LLC), and the article isn't clear.

Did the non-profit buy io using shares of the for-profit that it owns? Or did the for-profit buy io using its own shares?

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by M3L0NM4N on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:49PM (#44056184)
I want to know why a burner account posted this comment. There could be many reasons, some more entertaining than others. Of course the answer could be boring, but do you care to elaborate?
Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by WorkerBee28474 on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:09PM (#44056350)
> This acquisition (and the Windsurf acquisition) are all-stock deals

I'll add that conventional finance wisdom says that you should only buy companies using stock when you believe your stock is overvalued. That way you get more bang for your buck than cash or undervalued stock.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by rodgerd on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @05:36PM (#44056533)
Man, I remember the absolute hysteria here over the non-profit trying to reign Altman in. You'd have thought they were murdering babies.

I agree with your analysis, but it's hilarious that it's now top-voted, when the sentiment was so negative when the board saw the same thing coming ages ago.

Re:OpenAI to buy AI startup from Jony Ive by mrbungie on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @06:06PM (#44056752)
All that YC/VC experience paid off, they're the masters of gutting things from the inside out in the name of growth.