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Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by nickff on Friday October 25, 2024 @07:45PM (#41951149)
You seem to be implying that he made a decision based on other business interests, against those of the Post, but there is no support for that in the article. Do you have a source which describes this motive?

It seems like not endorsing candidates might be good for the Washington Post's business, by improving its perceived impartiality. In addition to this, the WaPo seems to have spent much of its history not endorsing candidates, and it has been doing (financially) poorly recently; perhaps this is a return to more profitable and credible roots.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by sgnelson on Friday October 25, 2024 @07:51PM (#41951203)
While you may not take this as proof it affected this exact decision, it's hard to ignore it as a possible reason.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/10/amazon-wants-to-depose-presi...

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by tbrownaw on Friday October 25, 2024 @09:26PM (#41951736)
Updates...

JEDI was cancelled (article also mentions results of investigations into Amazon's claims): https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/06/pentagon-cancels-10-billion-...

The lawsuit got tossed because it didn't matter any more: https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-judge-ends-amazo...

The replacement program somehow includes all three of the usual suspects, plus Oracle: https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/323937...

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by dmix on Friday October 25, 2024 @09:27PM (#41951746)
Bezos wants to help elect someone who (his lawyers allege) killed a gov contract favourable to his own business? Or did I misread your comment.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by a123b456c on Friday October 25, 2024 @09:32PM (#41951771)
I think the implicit argument is that he wants to avoid more canceled contracts, along with other forms of retribution like personal attacks he experienced a few years earlier.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by dmix on Friday October 25, 2024 @09:51PM (#41951844)
Maybe but Bezos is not lacking money. That contract was $1B/yr contract over ten years. They make $600B+ a year. Not exactly going to tip the scales of his stock options.

These billionaires usually buy money losing newspapers, or social networks, for personal reasons. If I was going to bet on it I’d very much lean on a personal motive beyond money.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by dragonwriter on Friday October 25, 2024 @11:53PM (#41952398)
> They make $600B+ a year.

Are you confusing revenue with profit? Yeah, a lot of money pumps in one end of Amazon retail and out the other, but there is very little margin: the $550+ billion in revenue on the retail side, as I understand, brings in significantly less net than the $90 billion in revenue on the cloud side.

And government contracts, where one might expect support or opposition from a potential cheif executige who has made overt promises of purges and other uses of office to punish enemies and reward friends to make a big difference, are an important part of that (not just that one $1B contract.)

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by chgs on Saturday October 26, 2024 @06:31AM (#41953903)
I say I make $100k year. That’s my salary, it’s my revenue. To do that I have to do things like paying taxes, rent, electric costs etc.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by dmix on Saturday October 26, 2024 @03:21PM (#41957045)
The $1B/yr is revenue too

...probably at a way lower profit range than most corporate contracts given how demanding gov deals are.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by worik on Sunday October 27, 2024 @02:35PM (#41964599)
> a lot of money pumps in one end of Amazon retail and out the other, but there is very little margin

Citation needed

I thought they had fabulous margins

Am I wrong

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by DonHopkins on Saturday October 26, 2024 @12:09AM (#41952474)
Not lacking money does NOT imply not so obsessed with making more money that he will do absolutely anything.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by fuzzfactor on Saturday October 26, 2024 @06:12AM (#41953823)
A very easy decision for some, depending on their own strength of conviction. Anybody knows that Harris is not running to retaliate against those who do not agree with every policy that her people can get her party to support, but Trump is and he makes it very clear that if elected he intends to do harm that Harris will not do. Bigly.

So without consideration for upside[0], one of the most emotionless decisions a top executive can make is when there is no downside versus when there is.

[0] After all, further upside is not necessary if you already have experienced enough to where the needle can not move any further.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by DiscourseFan on Friday October 25, 2024 @11:39PM (#41952334)
Its a general posture. Amazon is an industrial powerhouse and Trump has signaled that he can and will attack his political opponents no matter how rich they are. If he wants to, Trump may actually nationalize Amazon; the alternative is presumably becoming his toady.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by cryptonector on Friday October 25, 2024 @11:53PM (#41952403)
See "the steel cases". The POTUS cannot unilaterally nationalize any businesses.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by dragonwriter on Friday October 25, 2024 @11:57PM (#41952420)
See Dobbs and Loper Bright, past precedent previously viewed as solid and well-established is no guarantee of future outcomes with this Court.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by cryptonector on Saturday October 26, 2024 @02:21AM (#41952951)
Or Brown vs. Board of Education. The courts can change their minds once in a while. There are no indicia that this court wants to overturn the steel cases.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by Gooblebrai on Saturday October 26, 2024 @04:55AM (#41953542)
More context? A search on Google doesn't bring anything useful to me.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by kalleboo on Saturday October 26, 2024 @06:08AM (#41953808)
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by kalleboo on Saturday October 26, 2024 @06:09AM (#41953810)
The current Supreme Court has been pretty clear that there is no such thing as settled case law anymore
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by cryptonector on Saturday October 26, 2024 @10:54AM (#41955114)
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by 0x457 on Saturday October 26, 2024 @06:57PM (#41958340)
> The current Supreme Court has been pretty clear that there is no such thing as settled case law anymore

It's always been the case. That's how Supreme Court works.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by lenkite on Saturday October 26, 2024 @01:03AM (#41952676)
When did Trump threaten to nationalize any business ? His argument has always been for the opposite.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by dymk on Saturday October 26, 2024 @02:02AM (#41952893)
His behavior has been he’ll do whatever he wants; he has almost no consistent political positions.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by lenkite on Saturday October 26, 2024 @02:13AM (#41952932)
Sorry, but no - if he has ever made an argument to nationalize a business (he has actually held the opposite position), you will need to explicitly bring that up instead of ascribing to an imaginary belief in your mind.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by dymk on Saturday October 26, 2024 @03:49AM (#41953266)
He makes arguments that change with the wind. If you haven’t been paying attention to his erratic behavior for the last eight years, that’s not something I can fix for you.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by lenkite on Saturday October 26, 2024 @04:16AM (#41953383)
That is still reasonably stable. His opponent keeps changing her stance on border, fracking, medicare all the time depending on who is interviewing her - far faster than the wind actually. Amusingly, even on gun ownership these days.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by dragonwriter on Saturday October 26, 2024 @02:32AM (#41952983)
AFAICT, while he has threatened extreme and unconstitutional retaliation against businesses (e.g., pulling broadcast licenses and jailing journalists for unfavorable coverage) [0] if he wins, he has not specifically threatened nationalization.

[0] https://www.npr.org/2024/10/22/nx-s1-5161480/trump-media-thr...

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by DiscourseFan on Saturday October 26, 2024 @03:40AM (#41953233)
Fair enough. Though I wouldn't put it past him.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by mbrumlow on Sunday October 27, 2024 @03:25PM (#41964952)
That’s the bar now?
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by anonzzzies on Saturday October 26, 2024 @01:24AM (#41952745)
Trump has signaled he will get the military involved against his opponents. And people are still going to vote for him.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by valval on Saturday October 26, 2024 @02:57AM (#41953062)
And by the looks of it, the majority of people. Is this your signal that the majority of people are uneducated swines, or know something that you don’t?
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by dragonwriter on Saturday October 26, 2024 @03:02AM (#41953088)
> And by the looks of it, the majority of people.

Where are you getting this? He is down against Harris in most polls, and neither candidate is clearing a majority. There are projections that he has a narrow edge in winning the Presidency due to the electoral college, but that's not the same as being most likely to win a majority (or even plurality) of the votes (e.g., 538 gives Trump currently a 53% chance to win the electoral college, while Harris has a 65% chance to win the popular vote.)

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by valval on Saturday October 26, 2024 @10:34AM (#41954976)
Betting odds.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by dllthomas on Saturday October 26, 2024 @11:24AM (#41955335)
Betting on winner, or on popular vote? Because even assuming the betters have the odds right, those are not the same thing.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by valval on Sunday October 27, 2024 @03:03AM (#41960409)
To me the popular vote is irrelevant and in my original post I meant the winner, despite saying the majority which you interpreted to mean “more than 50% of the population of the US”. We have a system in place to counterbalance the fact that large numbers of likeminded people concentrated in one area could otherwise rule over everyone else through tyranny of the majority. To me the majority therefore just means “most of the US”.

If you think betters do not have the odds right, you should start betting right now.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by dllthomas on Tuesday October 29, 2024 @12:53AM (#41979492)
Using "majority of people" to mean anything but something over 50% of people is going to lead to miscommunication. I'd advise against it.

> If you think betters do not have the odds right, you should start betting right now.

Sure, depending on my risk tolerance and existing exposure.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by dragonwriter on Saturday October 26, 2024 @05:17PM (#41957798)
Even the betting sites where Trump is extremely (as in, much more than in the poll-based forecast sites) favored to win the electoral college, like Polymarket, have Harris a strong favorite to win the most votes, just as the poll-based forecasts generally do.

E.g, Polymarket, which gives Trump a 65% chance to win the EC compared to 538s 53%, has Harris at 58% to win the popular vote compared to 538s 65%. (And while it is possible for the popular vote winner to have a mere plurality of votes, it is not possible to get a majority of votes and not be the popular vote winner, so, no, the source of evidence you cite does not support the claim that "by the looks of it, the majority of people" will vote are going to vote for Trump, but instead support that the majority will most likely not do so.)

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by tdhz77 on Saturday October 26, 2024 @07:35PM (#41958546)
At the end of the day, you will find this prediction markets to be as successful as sports betters. We would be wise to remove all money from politics.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by defrost on Saturday October 26, 2024 @07:49PM (#41958634)
Rational well managed sports betters are quite successful.

Paddy Power (as one example) has grown in 36 years to now have > £11 billion revenue per annum with a net income of some £1.2 billion.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by alvah on Saturday October 26, 2024 @02:04AM (#41952903)
"Trump has signaled that he can and will attack his political opponents"

You write this, apparently sincerely, as if the other side of politics do not and will not attack their political opponents.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by chipdart on Saturday October 26, 2024 @06:15AM (#41953836)
> I think the implicit argument is that he wants to avoid more canceled contracts, along with other forms of retribution like personal attacks he experienced a few years earlier.

That makes no sense at all. If the primary concern was avoiding canceled contracts, it would be in his best interests to ensure that the guy who is threatening to cancel contracts out of spite would not be elected.

Pressuring the Washington Post to not endorse the candidate who does not pose that threat goes exactly against that.

It's something else.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by FrojoS on Saturday October 26, 2024 @07:21AM (#41954079)
It sure makes sense. The endorsement is extremely unlikely to decide the election. On the contrary, the chance that the endorsement will lead to retribution after a lost election is arguably much higher. They think it happened last time around. You can say it's cowardly to act like this. But it does make sense.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by heresie-dabord on Saturday October 26, 2024 @08:32AM (#41954363)
> say it's cowardly to act like this. But it does make sense.

So cowardice has been the greater virtue all along?

Has it come to this, that political cowardice makes sense? That it makes sense when Democracy itself is at risk?

That it makes sense in Journalism?

That it makes sense at the newspaper of Bob Woodward [1] , now run by a billionaire with no guts to stand for Democracy itself?

That other oligarchs are tilting the election towards the obvious insanity of a leader who, in word and deed, will dismantle Democracy to indulge himself and his cronies?

We have sanewashed madness and the end of Democracy.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Dies_in_Darkness

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by llamaimperative on Saturday October 26, 2024 @10:21AM (#41954889)
Yes this is the problem of oligarchies
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by ipaddr on Friday October 25, 2024 @10:21PM (#41951998)
He wants to avoid the wealth and capital gains tax on unrealized assets.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by unethical_ban on Saturday October 26, 2024 @11:25AM (#41955342)
The theory is that Bezos is scared of endorsing Harris then seeing Trump elected.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by dclowd9901 on Saturday October 26, 2024 @03:37PM (#41957148)
It can be hard to understand something if you wish not to understand it.

It’s pretty simple here: he didn’t endorse Trump. But he doesn’t want to get on his bad side in the case he is elected.

Make sure you take a moment to comb your moral fabric and see if that jibes with how you think the world should work.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by dhruvrajvanshi on Friday October 25, 2024 @07:54PM (#41951225)
From the article

> In a 2019 lawsuit, Amazon claimed it had lost a $10 billion cloud computing contract with the Pentagon to Microsoft because Trump had used “improper pressure ... to harm his perceived political enemy” Bezos.

The implication being that endorsing Harris might cause Amazon to lose out on government contracts in case Trump wins the presidency.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by nickff on Friday October 25, 2024 @08:03PM (#41951291)
Maybe this influenced Bezos’ action? Your post contains two unsupported suppositions.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by standardUser on Friday October 25, 2024 @07:51PM (#41951199)
Trump has repeatedly threatened media companies he thinks have wronged him with specific actions he's said he will take as president. Bezos has a whole business empire to worry about that goes way beyond WaPo. He doesn't need a petty president trying to wreck his bottom line for 4 years. And with a business that big, Trump has a lot of ways he could cause trouble.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by nickff on Friday October 25, 2024 @08:05PM (#41951304)
This is definitely a potential motive, but there are many of those, and we have no reason to believe this is actually what led to Bezos’ decision.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by standardUser on Friday October 25, 2024 @08:10PM (#41951334)
Yes we have a reason. Trump threatens media companies and individuals he believes have wronged him - loudly and often. If someone came to you and said they aren't going to a party, and you knew someone at that party had specifically threatened to beat them if they attend the party, do you have "no reason" to believe that the threat of a beating is a likely cause of the action (or in these cases, inaction). Especially if that person has a long history of attending that specific party?
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by yks on Friday October 25, 2024 @08:49PM (#41951574)
We have a potential future president who, putting it very charitably, espouses the ideology of "For my friends — everything, for my enemies — the law", and in the least surprising development ever, billionaires suddenly warm up to this guy. Many such cases.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by thimabi on Friday October 25, 2024 @09:58PM (#41951882)
Regardless of the motive, I do not view favorably his interference in the newspaper. If anything, he should have left editorial decisions to the staff.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by mensetmanusman on Friday October 25, 2024 @11:37PM (#41952328)
Media companies that stitch sentences together to make an interview coherent might be misleading.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by lapcat on Friday October 25, 2024 @07:50PM (#41951190)
> there is no support for that in the article.

Untrue. At the top, "KEY POINTS: In a 2019 lawsuit, Amazon claimed it lost a $10 billion Pentagon cloud computing contract to Microsoft because Trump used “improper pressure ... to harm his perceived political enemy” Bezos."

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by nickff on Friday October 25, 2024 @08:02PM (#41951283)
Non-sequitor. We cannot deduce Bezos’ motives from Trump’s vengefulness.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by lapcat on Friday October 25, 2024 @08:13PM (#41951352)
> We cannot deduce Bezos’ motives from Trump’s vengefulness.

Why not?

You personally can refrain from any speculation, if you wish, but it's nonetheless the most obvious explanation. Moreover, your own speculation is implausible:

> perhaps this is a return to more profitable and credible roots.

This last-minute backpedaling makes The Washington Post look much worse than an endorsement. The new non-endorsement "policy" wasn't announced in advance. It came only after the editors had already drafted an endorsement of Harris, and at least one editor resigned as a result. The Post now appears less credible rather than more.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by cryptonector on Friday October 25, 2024 @11:55PM (#41952408)
What is Trump seeking vengeance for?
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by ipaddr on Friday October 25, 2024 @10:20PM (#41951988)
If the capital gains / wealth tax plan goes ahead it would cost Jeff much of his fortune. $10 billion over ten years is peanuts.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by acjohnson55 on Saturday October 26, 2024 @01:17AM (#41952714)
But it would also cost his peers proportionally.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by ipaddr on Sunday October 27, 2024 @01:24AM (#41960054)
Not someone like Bill Gates who moved his wealth into non-profits he controls. Jeff can't just sell Amazon and move out so easily.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by noncoml on Friday October 25, 2024 @07:55PM (#41951232)
It takes a lot time to build the reputation of impartiality. To be honest only BBC comes into mind when I think about a somewhat impartial medium.

What I see is a traditionally Democartic leaning newspaper, choosing "impartiality" as an excuse, because they cannot come out and support Republicans. And of course I believe that this is the choice of the owner.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by jll29 on Friday October 25, 2024 @08:18PM (#41951397)
> To be honest only BBC comes into mind when I think about a somewhat impartial medium.

The BBC is pro-UK government, who fund them.

To me only Reuters (disclaimer: I once worked there) and AP come to mind when I think impartial news.

What do others think? https://www.purevpn.com/blog/unbiased-news-sources/

The Guardian is a great source of news, and it has a curageous team of reporters, but even it has its biases. I recommend reading multipe news outlets and being aware what he individual biases might be.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by tredfjgkkl543 on Friday October 25, 2024 @08:26PM (#41951443)
> The BBC is pro-UK government, who fund them.

You are not British, are you :-)

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by goosejuice on Wednesday October 30, 2024 @11:26AM (#41996073)
I'm not sure the BBC is even pro-BBC.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by gotoeleven on Saturday October 26, 2024 @12:25AM (#41952543)
Was it the AP or reuters that shared an office building hamas? Or was it BBC ?
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by guiriduro on Saturday October 26, 2024 @09:04AM (#41954493)
The Guardian was a reasonably good source of news under Rubsbridger, under Viner its biases have worsened and its most courageous reporters, opinion writers and even cartoonists have been either sidelined or fired. Avoid.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by zeroonetwothree on Friday October 25, 2024 @08:01PM (#41951274)
Not saying the BBC is Fox News or CNN but I wouldn’t really call it impartial.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by thrownv7032g on Friday October 25, 2024 @08:09PM (#41951323)
What the BBC does really well is trash itself in reporting after scandals from within break
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by noncoml on Friday October 25, 2024 @08:10PM (#41951327)
"somewhat impartial"

I can not really think of any truly impartial news source. Can you? At least no in the countries I have lived in

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by AYBABTME on Saturday October 26, 2024 @12:43AM (#41952606)
FT does much better.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by oezi on Saturday October 26, 2024 @04:28AM (#41953430)
I believe many of each countries top news papers aren't 'spinning' news. Murdock/Berlusconi-style news agencies do.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by impossiblefork on Saturday October 26, 2024 @06:24AM (#41953860)
No public impartial news source, but organisation-internal news sources that work for the reader himself, those probably exist and probably very good. A bank's analysis department can work like one for the traders for short-term things.

Such organisations for the general public are possible. You'd need a group that is interested in correct judgements on some matter and willing to form an organisation to pay for investigations on it.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by wsintra2022 on Friday October 25, 2024 @08:12PM (#41951347)
The BBC recently wrote a piece on the executives at Harod’s who kept Mo’s pervert behaviour secret. Don’t think they done yet that for the many perverts they have kept secrets for.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by alwayslikethis on Friday October 25, 2024 @08:13PM (#41951355)
[delayed]
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by II2II on Friday October 25, 2024 @10:45PM (#41952121)
A lot of that depends upon the government in question. Some want publicly funded news organizations at arms length. Others want to dismantle them. Some want at least the image of impartiality (and will take some criticism). Others want them to be a mouthpiece. It's not terribly different from the private sector. I would go as far as saying it is no different from the private sector given the consolidation of news organizations over the past few decades.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by WatchDog on Friday October 25, 2024 @11:44PM (#41952358)
Why is that a problem?
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by aix1 on Saturday October 26, 2024 @02:14AM (#41952933)
> The problem for BBC is that it's government-funded.

That's not factually accurate. The BBC is principally funded through the licence fee (i.e. directly by the viewers).

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by impossiblefork on Saturday October 26, 2024 @06:32AM (#41953907)
It's inherently dependent on the government. The viewers don't get together and voluntarily decide to fund it.

Unfortunately I don't think there's a single such organisation in the world-- controlled-by-members newspaper. Even almost-controlled-by-members newspapers here in Sweden aren't fully subject to member control, with this typically being indirect through some board or similar organisation.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by chgs on Saturday October 26, 2024 @06:38AM (#41953931)
Guardian comes to mind.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by impossiblefork on Sunday October 27, 2024 @12:03PM (#41963544)
The Guardian seems to be seeking money from the foundations of very rich people.

This is the precise opposite of what would be required.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by worik on Sunday October 27, 2024 @03:10PM (#41964819)
> Guardian comes to mind.

The Guardian's ownership is independent

The Guardian's views are very much not. Very predictable

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by strunz on Friday October 25, 2024 @09:04PM (#41951639)
This has nothing to do with them being unable to support Republicans, it's them choosing not to support a Democratic nominee (which they've done for the past 50 years) because they don't want to anger the possible Republican nominee because the owner is afraid of retribution affecting his other businesses.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by lmz on Saturday October 26, 2024 @01:52AM (#41952862)
As the cancel brigade often says: freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by Paradigma11 on Saturday October 26, 2024 @04:30AM (#41953434)
True, but said consequences are the possibility of a revenge streak of a petty US president called Trump. That is the real problem and story. And nobody really seems to dispute that possibility.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by chgs on Saturday October 26, 2024 @06:36AM (#41953925)
Trump fans boycotting Amazon is a consequence.

The US government punishing Amazon is not.

The first amendments limits the governemt in its actions, not the people.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by mindslight on Saturday October 26, 2024 @12:51PM (#41955953)
And why should we be using cancel brigades' definitions? If freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences for your speech, then freedom of speech automatically exists everywhere and the concept is meaningless.

Obvious there is judgement for when consequences rise to the level of being coercive - someone giving you a dirty look is not, the de jure government sanctioning you is. But trying to define rights binary-axiomatically is really just creating lemmas for cryptofascism when the preconditions have been met but yet the rights are still missing (which is exactly what the cancel brigades are pushing).

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by 0x457 on Saturday October 26, 2024 @07:13PM (#41958416)
BBC stopped being impartial shortly after start of Iraq's invasion in 2001. It's not as polarizing as Fox News and CNN, but it's _far_ from being impartial.

Their coverage of international events only impartial if those events have no effect on UK.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by smsm42 on Friday October 25, 2024 @08:34PM (#41951490)
It would take way more for WaPo to not be in a position where mentioning it in one phrase with "impartiality" wouldn't sound like an absurdist joke. They can walk this road, but so far there's absolutely no indication they want to, and Bezos twisting their arms can't be taken as such evidence.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by jasonlotito on Friday October 25, 2024 @08:35PM (#41951496)
There is support for that reasoning in the article linked.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by JKCalhoun on Friday October 25, 2024 @09:51PM (#41951843)
> In addition to this, the WaPo seems to have spent much of its history not endorsing candidates

In recent history, apparently the last time they did not endorse a candidate was the 1980's.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by fenomas on Friday October 25, 2024 @09:55PM (#41951865)
> not endorsing candidates might be good for the Washington Post's business, by improving its perceived impartiality

You're at the wrong meta level - if the paper's owner is making the editorial decisions, there's no impartiality to perceive in the first place.

I mean, if the question at hand was "should the editors endorse someone?" then what you're saying could stand. But that's out the window if they're being overruled by somebody without even a presumption of impartiality.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by nomel on Friday October 25, 2024 @11:34PM (#41952314)
I think one could claim that the editorial department was trying to make a decision that could/would be interpreted as a company stance, rather than a department stance, to the average person. Sure, you could blame the average person.

I also can’t comprehend the benefit of a biased editorial department, from a business or quality perspective. A diverse set of views is always more interesting to read, but I’m surely in the minority with that perspective. If someone could explain the benefit, I’m very interested.

I don’t see this is any different than the media black out that nearly all corporate employees enjoy, that exists for one reason: don’t make your opinions appear as those of the whole. Looking at the mixed responses to all of this, across the internet, that does seem to be the case, where people are confusing it all.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by fenomas on Saturday October 26, 2024 @12:15AM (#41952508)
1. Publishing an editorial endorsing a candidate is extremely common, both for US papers generally and for this paper specifically. The reasons for that are various but they have nothing to do with what we're discussing here.

2. Moreover, that whole question is irrelevant when the editors aren't even making the decision. If Bezos is willing to override them, then effectively he is the paper's editorial board - so there's no "diversity of views" to talk about, except within the confines of what he's decided to allow.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by AYBABTME on Saturday October 26, 2024 @12:42AM (#41952602)
(1) might be both common and also wrong. (1) being why I dislike most of these media outlets. (2) the editorial board may be wrong and suffering groupthink, and ultimately slowly killing the paper.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by fenomas on Saturday October 26, 2024 @01:13AM (#41952707)
The fact that editorial endorsements are extremely common is relevant because it means that no typical reader would mistake them for being the position of the paper's parent corporation, like GGP suggested. Whether endorsements are right or wrong in the abstract isn't relevant, and I didn't say anything about it.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by nomel on Monday October 28, 2024 @01:58PM (#41974070)
Could you explain the benefits of having a biased, rather than balanced, editorial department?
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by fenomas on Tuesday October 29, 2024 @12:53PM (#41986476)
No, because that's a straw man. What many people want is a balanced, unbiased editorial department that weighs the facts as they see them and then publishes an endorsement.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by nomel on Tuesday October 29, 2024 @08:20PM (#41990833)
Please follow hacker news comment guidelines [1], this isn't reddit. It's a genuine question. If you see it as easily answered (as a straw man would be), then answer it easily.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html#:~:text=Don....

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by fenomas on Tuesday October 29, 2024 @09:23PM (#41991092)
1. I answered you - nobody said they see a benefit to having biased editors, and no reasonable person would, by definition. People see benefit in something else, as I explained - that's the answer to your question.

2. I know some people say "straw man" as a swipe, but it's also a term of art for a rhetorical fallacy and that's how I meant it. The position you asked me to defend (that there's benefit in having a biased editorial board) isn't a position anyone here took, or agrees with. Hence the term.

3. "this isn't reddit" is a swipe - and one that's a bit mysterious to people who are unfamiliar with reddit, like me ;)

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by chipdart on Saturday October 26, 2024 @06:20AM (#41953851)
> I think one could claim that the editorial department was trying to make a decision that could/would be interpreted as a company stance, rather than a department stance, to the average person.

This makes no sense whatsoever. It is the editorial board deciding what candidate is endorsed by the paper. It is a company stance, made by the company's representatives on behalf of the company and based on the company's editorial guidelines.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by valval on Saturday October 26, 2024 @03:09AM (#41953114)
We can easily bring the meta level down one more step to conclude that given the editorial staff are individuals with different beliefs, this dictates that they’re impartial to the extent of the (weighted) average of their beliefs.

I’d argue impartiality isn’t a thing in any human domain anyway.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by DonHopkins on Saturday October 26, 2024 @12:05AM (#41952460)
Ignoring the objective fact that Trump is a fascist is not "objective", it's delusional.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by dxdenton on Saturday October 26, 2024 @01:43PM (#41956363)
What is your definition of fascist? If it includes dictatorial control of the economy, suppression of dissenting opinions, and aggressive persecution of political opposition, Id have an easier time arguing modern progressives are fascists. Off the top of my head.

* Effectively shutting down large swathes of the US economy during COVID, while allowing "essential" business to remain open. Where "essential" is arbitrarily determined based on the state governors political leanings.

* Biden-Harris admin strongly encouraging (ie strong-arming) social media companies to suppress what they deemed "disinformantion".

* Progressive state AGs using legal loopholes and technicalities to prosecute Trump, aka Lawfare. For example, a fraud case for overvaluing real estate properties. A fraud case with no victims that resulted in a $450 million judgment? The textbook definition of excessive fines as defined by the 8th amendment.

* Progressives stated goal to pack the Supreme Court, effectively neutering an entire branch of government. Thereby, consolidating power in the remaining two branches.

You believe people who don't consider Trump a fascist are delusional (close to half the electorate, if we believe the polls)? What actions or policies has Trump implemented that fit under that definition? In short, Trump being a fascist is not self-evident: It is your (and many others) strongly held opinion. One that is rarely backed by more than shallow progressive talking points.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by worik on Sunday October 27, 2024 @03:11PM (#41964828)
> A fraud case with no victims

Really?

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by dxdenton on Sunday October 27, 2024 @03:43PM (#41965067)
Can you offer a substantial rebuttal? Or are you in the same camp as the OP whose opinions are axioms that are above questioning or debate?
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by worik on Sunday October 27, 2024 @04:06PM (#41965238)
I think the duty of evidence is on the accuser

Fraud is not a victimless crime

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by dxdenton on Sunday October 27, 2024 @06:09PM (#41966074)
Agreed
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by edm0nd on Saturday October 26, 2024 @12:12AM (#41952491)
>by improving its perceived impartiality

Can WaPo really be perceived as "impartial" if we know they already were going to endorse Harris?

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by markvdb on Saturday October 26, 2024 @01:27AM (#41952759)
That is possible if their editorial staff honestly believe two things:

- The rule of law and the republic as a process are superior to anything else.

- One of the candidates does not subscribe to these sufficiently.

In that case, and given the political duopoly, they could still claim to be impartial towards candidates. Their only allegiance/partiality would lie with the rule of law and the republic as a process.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by valval on Saturday October 26, 2024 @03:02AM (#41953089)
You’re thinking about this too hard. It’s a definitional question. If you have two candidates and you endorse one of them, you’re de facto partial with nothing else playing any role in the definition.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by Supermancho on Saturday October 26, 2024 @10:54PM (#41959499)
> If you have two candidates and you endorse one of them, you’re de facto partial with nothing else playing any role in the definition.

Endorsing on a specific issue, party, gender, or any specific quality that a large number of individuals share, is not uncommon. The specific individual is not what the endorsement must be partial to. Maybe the choice (since it's inherent to the process), but that's the distinction that was being made.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by smsm42 on Saturday October 26, 2024 @04:23PM (#41957454)
Thinking that one of the candidates will literally destroy the country is some weird meaning of being "impartial" that I have never encountered before.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by hoppyhoppy2 on Saturday October 26, 2024 @09:09AM (#41954522)
There's a difference between the opinion staff and the news staff.

>The Post’s decision has roiled many on the paper’s opinions staff, which operates independently from The Post’s news staff, a long-standing tradition of American journalism designed to separate opinion writing from day-to-day news coverage.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/style/media/2024/10/25/washin...

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by SpicyLemonZest on Saturday October 26, 2024 @11:33AM (#41955386)
I understand the internal logic of newsroom design, but if it was ever a genuine firewall it's not in modern times. The NY Times opinion editor was famously forced to resign in 2020 when he published an op-ed that the newsroom found unacceptable.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by tempestn on Saturday October 26, 2024 @12:23AM (#41952538)
There is direct support in the article. Amazon lost a $10B contract because Trump doesn't like Bezos, which is because he owns the WP, a paper that is generally critical of Trump. By killing this endorsement, he's buying some goodwill from Trump, at the cost of alienating the bulk of WP's readers.
Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by raverbashing on Saturday October 26, 2024 @01:55AM (#41952870)
Apparently Blue Origin executives were meeting with Trump yesterday

https://x.com/MerylKornfield/status/1849977796304478327

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by ZeroGravitas on Saturday October 26, 2024 @06:12AM (#41953822)
Bezos was blackmailed by Trump ally and National Enquirer boss David Pecker a few years ago. He resisted then and it led to the most expensive divorce in history.

Just some context worth adding.

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by perihelions on Saturday October 26, 2024 @10:50AM (#41955085)
- "You seem to be implying that he made a decision based on other business interests, against those of the Post, but there is no support for that in the article. Do you have a source which describes this motive?"

There's support in that Trump personally met with Blue Origin's C-suite, on the same day the Washington Post spiked their Harris endorsement—an apparent reward to Bezos, and one that put his business interests in the spotlight.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/10/25/2024-ele... ("Trump met with Bezos’s Blue Origin executives after The Post’s non-endorsement")

Re:Jeff Bezos killed Washington Post endorsement of Kamala H... by Bombthecat on Saturday October 26, 2024 @03:41PM (#41957179)