Yup. People always complain that the AppleTV is too expensive vs the competition, but stuff like this is exactly why.

I’ve had Roku, FireTV, and Chromecast, and I have had hdcp and/or performance issues with everything but Apple TV.

I hate that I’ve turned into something of an fanboy but Apple TV follows the same old story from Apple: expensive but it consistently just works.

> same old story from Apple: expensive but it consistently just works.

Not to mention at least you know where they're hitting you - up front, on the hardware. It's like the people that complain about a Macbook being 20% more (or whatever), buying a PC-something, and then coming back complaining that Windows is loaded with ads or Linux has all kinds of issues on it.

I'm with you - I went from being a die-hard Linux desktop, Kodi, Android, etc, etc user to just saying "the hell with it" and plunking down for Apple products.

They're expensive and they're not perfect either but my life is much less stressing and annoying as a result.

Additionally, if you're willing to resell when you're done with them, you can often get that 'Apple tax' back on the resale price difference.

Macbook costs like 3x compared to competitors. For example, Apple M1 8 Core score on cpubenchmark is about 14000. If you look for non-Apple laptops with equivalent CPU score, they would cost around $450. And they support Linux.

The only good thing in Macbook is display, which covers more than 100% of sRGB color space and has giantic resolution. I wish it could be bought separately and installed into a normal laptop.

Apple Silicon Macbooks also support Linux.

Oh, by the way in a $450 laptop you can upgrade memory and SSD.

Most MacBooks feel like Pareto-optimal machines. There exist other laptops with better displays, faster CPUs, better speakers, or just cheaper, but I'm pretty sure there are no alternatives with better or equal everything.

My experience buying laptops in 2023 was that most of what I found was cheap junk. Even when I was buying stuff in the $1800-$2500 price range, it was mostly junk with build quality problems, incomplete support for the hardware (USB-C especially being an issue), and terrible thermals.

I don't really like Apple as a company but I just hand them money and they give me a laptop that works without any nonsense. Maybe I'm just too old and overpaid nowadays but I legitimately feel like laptop manufacturers other than Apple are in a self-destructive race-to-the-bottom with each other.

> If you look for non-Apple laptops with equivalent CPU score, they would cost around $450. And they support Linux.

And their battery lasts almost two hours.

And they're made of cheap plastic, have horrible keyboard flexing, and their trackpads suck.

I am envious of gp though, I kind of miss being younger and thinking the only thing that mattered in a laptop was raw CPU/GPU performance.

Artificial benchmarks are interesting but as another personal anecdote, I bought a maxed-out Framework for over $3000 a couple of years ago when I was still Linux desktop oriented. Way more RAM, storage, faster on benchmarks than anything Apple at the time.

It was the worst machine I've ever had. One day after doing yet another plug-unplug-reboot-wtf dance to get a display to work (that just worked the day before) I threw my hands up, went to Best Buy and bought some random basic Macbook Pro for $1200 (lower specs, of course). I don't know what the specs or benchmarks look like, I don't care. I just need a tool to do my work.

What I do know is that it runs for at least weeks at a time, does absolutely everything I need it to do, and I never feel like I'm waiting for it. Plug/unplug displays, thunderbolt docks, open/close the lid, don't charge it for days at time. Just runs along - cool and silent. I open it, get my work done, close it. Day after day.

I absolutely guarantee that even if this Macbook was $6000 I'm way ahead in terms of productivity not to mention stress and frustration - which I value very, very highly.

It's been "Ohhh, this is NICE" experiences like this that have chipped away at my previous thinking and pulled me further and further towards Apple. Still not perfect (of course) but the time I spend fixing my tools vs being productive isn't even close.

I'm probably just getting old and cranky but I have very little patience for BS at this point in my life. When I was 13 figuring out why RedHat 5.2 didn't boot on my AMD K6 was fun. It's not fun anymore.

Performance is not the only meaningful metric when evaluating the total value of a laptop.

Screen, keyboard, build quality, and a whole host of other factors contribute to it.

Apple works unless you need something specific that every other devices supports but apple doesn't.

I've never had a great experience with any laptop but at least I can't say I didn't get screwed on the price most of the time (non apple times). Who remembers how apple didn't admit or fix the Nvidia GPU on their laptop for years but it was easy to just get a new ipod?

That nVidia GPU issue was a design flaw on nVidia's part that nVidia refused to take responsibility for.

The problem is that normal use and wear and tear over time would lead to the GPU physically failing, leading to a non-bootable system and necessitating a whole new logic board.

Apple had a long standing special service program of covering (very expensive) logic board replacements for all of those MacBook Pros that were usually well out of of warranty¹ because Apple gave a damn about making it right whereas nVidia refused to even acknowledge the issue.

Source: I was a Mac Genius at an Apple Store from 2008 to 2013.

1) https://www.macrumors.com/2017/05/20/apple-ends-2011-macbook...

Apple was supposed to vet them. I expect that answer from razer.

Only took a few years for them to admit it failed under normal use, by that time it was long outdated. I don't pretend waiting at the apple store is a luxury anymore. The brand is tainted to me.

Dell, HP, and Compaq were also affected by the issue. The issue was with the die packaging, nearly impossible to catch post-production.

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2010/10/nvidia-settle...

I’m not going to universally defend Apple (because no one can) but when you have to go back 10 years to come up with an example that as other commenters have noted was a supplier issue it’s not as strong an argument as you may think.

It was my last relationship with a new Mac, and it will remain that way. Why you want to attack my experience I'm uncertain.

I'm not attacking your experience, in the end you got burnt by this (regardless of who was at fault) and that was your experience. That's fair.

That said, as other commenters have noted it wasn't an Apple issue. Nvidia shirked responsibility and Apple stepped up. This is one of the examples where Apple has earned their reputation for user experience and overall "premium" brand halo. They took the loss and replaced any failures related to this fiasco for six years - well beyond the standard warranty period.

In another comment I noted my very poor experience with Framework. It was so bad I basically do what you do and trash them at every opportunity - to me they deserve it. You obviously feel the same way from your Apple experience. The difference is in my case they took no responsibility whatsoever and I'm left with a nearly-useless $3k machine. That's buying first gen hardware from a startup for you, and I should have known better. You bought hardware from a leading and well established brand where this never should have happened. That's far worse.

I mentioned the ten years because a decade in the life of a tech company that has sold billions of devices across multiple product lines and generations in the meantime is (in my mind) a pretty weak argument and borderline irrational stance. You're holding on to a decade old grudge against a brand that has famously happy, dedicated, and loyal users. Apple isn't the most valuable company in the world because your experience is anywhere near typical.

I would hope that in ten years time (or sooner) I will have gotten over my issues with Framework (if they're still around) and would be willing to try them again. I guess we'll see if I'm able to let it go by then.

Apple made a bad computer by using components that were known to break down. Nvidia GPUs on mobile still break that way, and have broken in gaming laptops all the time. It took years for them to admit fault, by that time the computer was worthless. My friends Intel MacBook was good at first and it got worst and worst, he was glad he got applecare. His m1 Mac is doing great, but I'd call the quality closer to the consumer electronic I mentioned earlier. I've had other used MacBooks and laptops since, but apples customer service had gotten worst and there's long waits. If he didn't have apple care for the Intel one he would have hated his Mac too.

Framework is probably not going to be around in less than 10 years. I'm happy some products but not the Apple company. Waiting for hours to be sent away at the apple store is never a luxury and a dreadful experience.

> components that were known to break down

If this was as obvious and well-known as you make it seem it boggles the mind how a primarily hardware company like Apple missed this. I suspect hindsight is 20/20 here. I also have two Nvidia Apple Intel Macbooks (one of which lives in my trunk) that weren't bit by this. Anecdotes, you know.

> My friends Intel MacBook was good at first and it got worst and worst

I'm sitting next to my 2013 Mac Book that I still use daily for occasional testing. The thing just won't die or give me any issues. Anecdotes.

> Waiting for hours to be sent away at the apple store is never a luxury and a dreadful experience.

They at least have the Apple Store available (show me another consumer hardware manufacturer that has anything similar), and needless to say your experiences (again) don't match mine. I've been to multiple Apple Stores in multiple states time and time again and never experienced this. The last time I was at their EXTREMELY busy store on Michigan Ave in Chicago I was in and out inside of 15 minutes. They just handed me a brand new Apple Watch (no AppleCare even) and offered to set it up for me (declined).

I'm not sure what's going on in your world but my social circle is almost exclusively iMessage-blue and I've never heard anything like this. Quite the contrary, actually, and reflective of their overall great reputation for customer service and support.

Dedicated GPUs break on gaming laptops and do often. It's not unknown, apple underclocked it after to prevent it happening again. I love my Apple electronics but their Intel laptops sucked for me.

Now that you mention it, I had a bad experience with their batteries dying in the cold for a while, and luckily I had applecare and it took mutiple geniuses to decide it was a problem even though the problem was known.

It's funny, when I was in Chicago the Michigan one was always AWFUL for me (never helped, swamped with people, appointments were hard to come by) and the one by the Northside was awesome and much better with CS. Maybe management changed, but it's at best inconsistent with our experiences. The times I went in, I heard tons of other people with the same failures I had, some were sent away and some were helped.

How many times did you go to get problems fixed?

Same reason I've become an iPhone fanboy - the alternatives were simply unbearable at some point and the iPhone... was ok. Apparently, consistently ok is a high bar.

Can't say that about macOS, though - it's consistently below expectations for me.

I was a Roku fanboy until they started installing new apps/channels or whatever on the device without prompting me. Now I simp for Apple TV.

I just hook a nuc or similar sff Linux PC to my old 1080p Sony TV and I'm good. All the major streaming sites work in a browser. Best part is I can pause or open another tab and just surf the web in a normal up to date browser.

The other nice thing about Apple TVs is that their hardware isn’t so terribly underpowered compared to other streaming boxes, which is why my Apple TV 4K first gen from 2017 is still snappy running current tvOS, as well as why it can play back media encoded in formats that aren’t hardware accelerated without hiccups.

So yes, it cost me more than a competing box would’ve in 2017, but it’s given me smooth problem free operation the entire time and there’s no sign of that changing any time soon.

I'm using Roku everywhere at this point and haven't run into any issues. Big fan.

I've found the Roku UI to be pretty laggy every time I used it. It seems to be running at 10 FPS or something. Huge turn-off.

Try the Plex app on your TV.

lol... give it time. Apple does NOT miss a nickel.

What a low-effort comment. Can you answer the question of how long Apple has made the Apple TV? Based on that history, how much time should we "give" for your prediction to come true? Please be specific.

Youre setting a false premise.

To answer your question: 1st generation: January 9, 2007; 16 years ago

Advertising wasn't the same in 2007, compared to 2023, so counting all of those years is disingenuous.

This is also a company that vigorously lobbies for anti-right-to-repair.

Lastly, youre defending a company that sells things like a $1k monitor stand, with a straight face. There is no justifiable reason for a basic monitor stand to be $1k. None. Zero. No, not even then.

GL with trusting Apple to not shaft its customers. There are many, many, examples to the contrary.

The original Apple TV was released in 2007, over sixteen years ago.

How much time should we give it?

I would suggest we wait until you realize that advertising in 2007 was nothing like advertising in 2023, so counting the first 5-10 years is wholly inaccurate.

You may feel differently about that, since you're defending a company you apparently have loyalty to.

GL with that.

It's entirely possible to say someone is wrong without loving what they are wrong about.

Nevertheless, ignoring the first ten years--which is your high estimate--how long should we wait past that?

That only works as long as TVs connect to the internet via WiFi. Unfortunately there are protocols out there of IoT that by pass per device WiFi settings entirely by setting up mesh networks.

Amazon Sidewalk[1][2] being one of the biggest players:

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Sidewalk

[2] https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Sidewalk/b?node=21328123011

Indeed.

Devices can also ship eSIM too. But at least that comes with bigger cost than just the radio chipset.

I believe 5g can all support meshing. But I don’t know a whole lot about that.

Suffice to say, what little control we have now is going to disappear completely over the next decade.

I’m sure we’ll see TVs with built-in AI tools to create new generative ads. Maybe they could include little cameras, so they could keep an eye out for any Amazon products in their house. This would help achieve Amazon’s apparent goal of advertising things I’ve already bought from them to me.

Or, they could just include a little cellphone radio. Probably only need to phone home once every couple months to get the new ads.

And remember: hard drive space is cheap nowadays. You might not ever connect your TV to the internet, but it can at least record fingerprints for everything you watch. Maybe your kids will connect it to the internet some day, or you’ll hand it down to somebody else, and then that poor trapped taste-profile information can finally make the trip back to Amazon’s servers.

That works fine with a TV. I bought one knowing that the "smart" features weren't all that great. I tried connecting it to the internet, and it felt more sluggish, although it's a brand new 2023 model. I was able to reset it to factory defaults and it's working well enough for what I bought it for (the image is very good, at least for my needs). For reference, it's a TCL with Google TV.

But the Fire TV TFA talks about... well, the whole point of the thing is to stream internet content. So not connecting it to the internet kinda defeats 90% of the thing's purpose.

you can still stream stuff - just use something else and just leverage it as a cheap display.

Unless it won't work if not connected to the internet (wouldn't put it past them).

I bought my Xbox mainly because it was the best/cheapest option for a 4K bluray player. I think I've loaded a game on it a handful of times at best, but watched lots of movies and other content with it. Thanks gamers for subsidizing a great BR player!

The key is to verify that the TV will return to just showing "HDMI 1" or whatever after power off.

Because the smart TVs have a history of returning to whatever ads they want to show after power on.

My particular TV, if it's never been connected to the internet, will not show any ads. It will show a notification that it isn't connected to the internet when you turn it on, but it will work fine otherwise. It'll even switch to the correct video input if you power it on through that port, say through a firetv stick. Otherwise, there's a setting for power on behaviour: 1. go to home screen 2. Go to last used input.

Even better, if you can avoid accepting the ToS for the apps, they don't even start. My Samsung TV is so snappy now because I reset it and ignore the accept ToS button :)

Makes sense.

Telemetry takes packets out of your bandwidth.

These boxes have constant calls so… yeah free that space up

This is step beyond that, none of the crappy Tizen apps or anything start at all. The TV never gets network access of course :)

The FireTV is not an actual television set. It's the "something else" that you use to stream content to a screen with no internet connection.

No, in this case it is actually a full size TV that has the same OS as the FireTV stick.

My bad, I only quickly skimmed TFA, didn't think these were actual TVs since they're not available where I live last time I checked.

The fire stick is the pure streaming dongle, a Fire TV is an actual TV which includes that dongle built in and sold at a discount.

So, buying a cheap Amazon fire TV and not connecting it to the internet is a reasonable choice for a cheap ‘dumb’ TV.

There's also the "Fire TV" which is a streaming box and not a stick, sold from 2015 to 2022, which doesn't help the confusion in the naming.

At some point they're gonna put a cheap cellular modem or something like Amazon Sidewalk in all new TVs.

Then you take it apart and disconnect it.

Do Apple TVs not display ads? I have Google TV devices, in part because I can install what er I want on them, including 3rd part launchers that don't have ads.

Apple TV advertises its own content when you are on the homepage (even as a non-Apple TV+ subscriber so it's a little more aggressive than like sitting on the Netflix homepage as a subscriber) but as far as I can tell nothing more than that.

Been a user for the last 7-8 years and I love the UX.

If you count the top-app-row preview as an ad, maybe there are ads. If you move the tv+ app off the top row you don’t see anything by Apple.

There are no app suggestions or notifications on Apple TV (or at least I turned them off about 8 years ago).

I have been happily streaming media off my computer with Apple TV and have never had a single issue with it.

Oh that's interesting, didn't even think about moving it.

Even then though, I'm an on-again/off-again Plus subscriber so I don't even mind it because it often times suggests shows that I might want to subscribe for.

I'm not sure how many Apple TV devices they sell, but I've always viewed it as super underrated, just a clean piece of hardware with great "It Always Works" functionality.

I have Spotify at the top left of the clickable icons and the top row of the screen shows Spotify’s suggestions.

A year or two back they changed the home button to actually go to their TV app, fortunately this can be reverted in the options.

Otherwise, there aren’t really any ads except that if you linger over their app icon, it has a kind of “now showing” effect (no sound though). Seems a little more privileged compared to other apps in how much of the Home Screen it can use, but it’s really not obtrusive.

I really like my Apple TV.

I've seen a few other apps display content in the same way. Seems like it's just an 'underused' feature, rather than a private API.

You can get around this by being selective with the apps on the home row. I have the Home Sharing, Settings, Search, Photos, and Podcasts apps on the home row. No ads.

Even then I don't quite consider it quite ad-free. Content I've purchased in iTunes Movies or iTunes TV Shows will always show the store on launch or will switch to the store if you pause content for some amount of time.

So it's not adfree at all? That's all I see on my tv with Android TV as well.

Sony does this too

Apps pinned to the top row of the home screen can show their own custom content in the top portion of the screen when highlighted. By default, the Apple TV app is in that row and shows you slides for TV+ content. That is as close to built-in advertising as it gets.

Even if it requires an internet connection, it surely has an option to start up on the Apple TV input, bypassing the home screen.

I have a Roku TV (it was free) that I've never connected to the internet. Even when starting it up with an Apple TV it'll still hang out on the Roku home screen for 5s before even starting the input change.

It's pretty infuriating and definitely an intentional dark pattern.

That is a device that belongs in the trash. I have always bought the cheaper Sony TVs ($600 to $700) and never experienced anything like that. All I ever do is use the Apple TV remote and it just turns the TV on directly to that.

Apple TVs in the default configuration show large video ads for Apple stuff in the hero unit on the homescreen, same as Amazon is being accused of doing in TFA.

Fair criticism but to clarify: The default is that if you press home on the controller, it loads up the AppleTV app, where it will show ads for AppleTV content. Pressing home again goes to the actual home, where you select the app you want to watch (YouTube, Netflix, etc.). There are no ads there.

The AppleTV app will show Apple TV+ content by default, but once you've logged into other streaming services it will show a variety of content based on things you've watched across all your streaming apps. I suppose showing Apple TV+ content at all is technically "showing ads," but it's about as innocuous as one could imagine.

Right. I use the TV app to manage everything I’m watching. There are ads for Apple content (and extras like the football pass) but it’s rather innocuous.

I’m not getting ads from the lowest rung trash TV someone is pushing, random consumer electronics, things I’ve googled, etc.

As far as I can tell it’s basically the best experience on a modern smart TV without going full HTPC custom.

(LG was pretty good they’re getting worse with promoting things to you, it seems)

They do? I have not seen that on any of mine. We don’t spend much time on the Home Screen though.

One of my favorite parts of AppleTV is that it has those beautiful screensavers.

I would pay for more aerials. I don’t understand why they are limited to so few, and if I could eliminate N.Y.C./London/Hong Kong/SF/other major cities, and get some lesser seen areas, that would be awesome.

It’s quite difficult to get permission to fly a drone over an active LAX (to say nothing of Times Square or London).

The fact that they got to do this (and show it off via screensaver) is one of my favorite “we have unlimited money and power” Apple flexes.

The amount of time, money, and planning to produce these is staggering. They’re slow motion, probably shot in 8K, and are drone shots with expensive cinema lenses. There is probably a team of 1-3 people dedicated simply to the paperwork and approvals and flight planning, not counting cinematography/DP and postproduction.

I would love a reddit-style Q&A with Apple’s internal filmmaking team.

They’re not aerial, but they’re beautiful paid apps: search “magic window” on the ATV app store. They have a few timelapse video apps that I love to leave playing on my ATVs.

Thanks for the suggestion!

They add a few every big release. I agree I’d love more.

When we switched to the 4 from the 3, the 3 used to have a "photos of the day" screensaver, filled with an ever changing, curated selection of photos.

For whatever reason, they dropped that in the 4. All of the screensavers (as far as I can tell) are static now, which is kind of a shame.

I have this screensaver on my Fire TV! It’s kind of a super bitch to set up because there’s no UI for it, but if you can use adb, it’s a one-liner to switch screensavers. I think it guides you on how to enable it, or look up their github

Aerial Views https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B4PPSNT6

Not to mention, they just launder their selling of your data through Google.

If only defaults could be changed :p

owned an apple tv for many years (many models) and i've never seen this

There is a setting to choose what the home button does. My Home Screen looks just like a grid of icons. No ads or anything. The Apple TV app is not the same as the Home Screen.

No, the home screen displays ads in the hero unit for the currently selected app. By default the first app on the home screen is an Apple one, so going to the home screen displays ads on the home screen from the selected Apple app.

You can change the apps in the first row to prevent this, but by default the behavior is the same: home screen ads.

Ads, or suggestions for content you could watch on the device you just bought, one of the main features of which is allowing you to subscribe to content providers, rent content, and ‘buy’ content.

Calling this ‘ads’ is disingenuous.

Those “ads” are provided by the app. Hulu showed me Hulu stuff, HBO shows HBO, etc. just like when you open that app.

I think there may be an option to turn that off too, I don’t remember.

Honestly I’m never on that screen for more than a few seconds. I don’t find that problematic at all.

Don't worry, smartphones will begin to fill the gaps, we pay for them, but the Industry does whatever it wants with them. In about a year, we may well have to watch 2 ads before making phone calls with the way things are going, while we of course pay even higher fees for mobile service (of course).

maybe on an android device but this is unheard of in the Apple ecosystem

iPhone have plenty of adverts. They’re just integrated in a way that you don’t always notice. Eg

- I just opened the App Store and the whole of the screen is taken up by two adverts.

- in settings, the 1st option is an add for Apple Care.

For cheapskates like me, Walmart sells an ONN Google TV box for like $20. Make sure to get the 2023 version, it's a much improved upgrade from one released a few years ago. I love that little thing, and if there are ads, I don't see or notice them. It's much nicer and more responsive than the actual Chromecast TV it replaced.

Yet. You don't see ads, yet.

But, what you are doing, is selling your viewing history to marketers, albeit indirectly. For that $20 box, you are giving away everything you watch, when you watch, and very likely anything that goes through that box.

That said, you might be 100% ok w/that for the price and that's ok. But, you should go in eyes open about what these lower-cost pieces of hardware are doing to 'permit' you to pay less than they cost from competitors who may or may not be doing the same thing.

I wouldn't say I'm 100% OK with it, more just accepted it. I don't think there's any real way around it with a streaming lifestyle. The streaming device wants data, the services want data. Even my TV I believe asked if it can view what's on the screen.

Even if I had a dumb TV, and a secure trustworthy streaming box, the services themselves(Netflix et al) are collecting the same data, no?

>Even if I had a dumb TV, and a secure trustworthy streaming box, the services themselves(Netflix et al) are collecting the same data, no?

Collecting, yes, but not selling. ONN explicitly says they do so in their privacy policy.

https://onntvsupport.com/privacy-policy

>We may disclose “blinded” aggregated data and user statistics to prospective partners and other third parties. Blinded data is data that does not identify an individual person.

It's a pretty blurry line between sharing and selling, and if it's not, these companies should really make their privacy policies more clear.

Netflix says - https://help.netflix.com/legal/privacy

We may share information collected from or about you with Advertisers and/or Ad Measurement Companies to select advertisements, and measure and improve advertising effectiveness. As a reminder, please see the Information from Other Sources section above if you have questions regarding the role of Advertisers or Ad Measurement Companies.

Hulu says - https://press.hulu.com/privacy-policy

We may share information collected from or about you with third parties as explained further below, including business partners, social networking services, service providers, advertisers, and other companies that are not affiliated with Hulu.

Meh, I own an LG CX and I have never seen a single ad on it - the app integration is so good I can't imagine needing to mess with another device just to use streaming services. Just don't buy ad-ridden crap from Samsung and others, I guess?

TBF that’s a higher end TV. I love mine.

The lower the cost, the more likely this crud is. If you buy a $250 55” TV you’re (unknowingly) signing up for ads.

Sadly, there isn’t much middle ground anymore. Ads and spying, or a ton of money (and spying).

Sony sells TVs that cost just a bit more than the competition but you can easily not opt-in to ads during initial setup (they are not selected by default!).

Sadly Google seems to insist on showing YT recommendations to matter what on Google tvs, but you can just opt into "app only mode" and then you get none of that.

I would put Sony in my second category above. High quality TVs, and a price to match.

The fact they use Google gives me pause. My last TV was a Sony with Google and it was slow as dirt (Sony’s fault, since fixed on newer models). And it was a great TV otherwise. But I don’t trust Google not to find a way to shove ads in later.

Sony's tvs are broken into price tiers, they have low end ones with garbage picture quality, medium tier tvs with better picture and a better CPU, and high end ones with excellent image quality.

Sadly neither Sony tv I have had (including one I just bought) are able to stay connected to my wifi for more than an hour or so before losing connection....

Sony is not known for the quality of their software...

Yeah I’ve been on the wrong side of their software quality before. It’s too bad. The electronics are top notch, as always.

PlayStation has the religion, but the rest of their consumer stuff doesn’t.

Our 55" A95K has Google TV built in but we never use it and it has never seen a packet from an outside network since we got it. We use Apple TV with it, and for that purpose, it is very fast and easy to use.

Perhaps some models don't but I don't think it's a free m given.

https://www.extremetech.com/electronics/320778-how-to-stop-l...

AppleTv is amazing, and I use it for everything but YouTube. For YouTube, I use a Fire stick with SmartTubeNext

I have YT Premium so I use/enjoy the native app.

Smarttube has sponsorblock built in. Even though I have YT Premium, it’s a much better experience than stock app for this feature alone.

I've had a TCL Roku TV since 2018 and it was always sluggish using the apps through its default interface. I got an AppleTV last year and the ease of use & lack of input lag or advertisements was a breath of fresh air.

Ugh, the Vizio I have became cancer after awhile. Even with it offline, it will automatically change the input to their spyware entertainment app after 10 seconds of no input. No ability to disable this malicious automatic switch.

My solution was to just get an old box that was cheap, plug it into the TV with an HDMI cord, add a wireless mouse and keyboard, and viola. I have a viewing experience that is on par with what most other people have without having to have a locked down device that I don't control attached to my tv and spying on me.

Plus I can use it to play Steam games, so gaming console and media device all in one.

Can we hack the TVs? These things have computers inside. Surely we can run software in these things.

I have a regular old computer connected to my TV, I find it much more robust and under my control than any purpose built device. Haven't seen a recent apple TV in action though so maybe they're more capable than I think they are.

That's until they default to using the cell network when it becomes cheap enough