> same old story from Apple: expensive but it consistently just works.

Not to mention at least you know where they're hitting you - up front, on the hardware. It's like the people that complain about a Macbook being 20% more (or whatever), buying a PC-something, and then coming back complaining that Windows is loaded with ads or Linux has all kinds of issues on it.

I'm with you - I went from being a die-hard Linux desktop, Kodi, Android, etc, etc user to just saying "the hell with it" and plunking down for Apple products.

They're expensive and they're not perfect either but my life is much less stressing and annoying as a result.

Additionally, if you're willing to resell when you're done with them, you can often get that 'Apple tax' back on the resale price difference.

Macbook costs like 3x compared to competitors. For example, Apple M1 8 Core score on cpubenchmark is about 14000. If you look for non-Apple laptops with equivalent CPU score, they would cost around $450. And they support Linux.

The only good thing in Macbook is display, which covers more than 100% of sRGB color space and has giantic resolution. I wish it could be bought separately and installed into a normal laptop.

Apple Silicon Macbooks also support Linux.

Oh, by the way in a $450 laptop you can upgrade memory and SSD.

Most MacBooks feel like Pareto-optimal machines. There exist other laptops with better displays, faster CPUs, better speakers, or just cheaper, but I'm pretty sure there are no alternatives with better or equal everything.

My experience buying laptops in 2023 was that most of what I found was cheap junk. Even when I was buying stuff in the $1800-$2500 price range, it was mostly junk with build quality problems, incomplete support for the hardware (USB-C especially being an issue), and terrible thermals.

I don't really like Apple as a company but I just hand them money and they give me a laptop that works without any nonsense. Maybe I'm just too old and overpaid nowadays but I legitimately feel like laptop manufacturers other than Apple are in a self-destructive race-to-the-bottom with each other.

> If you look for non-Apple laptops with equivalent CPU score, they would cost around $450. And they support Linux.

And their battery lasts almost two hours.

And they're made of cheap plastic, have horrible keyboard flexing, and their trackpads suck.

I am envious of gp though, I kind of miss being younger and thinking the only thing that mattered in a laptop was raw CPU/GPU performance.

Artificial benchmarks are interesting but as another personal anecdote, I bought a maxed-out Framework for over $3000 a couple of years ago when I was still Linux desktop oriented. Way more RAM, storage, faster on benchmarks than anything Apple at the time.

It was the worst machine I've ever had. One day after doing yet another plug-unplug-reboot-wtf dance to get a display to work (that just worked the day before) I threw my hands up, went to Best Buy and bought some random basic Macbook Pro for $1200 (lower specs, of course). I don't know what the specs or benchmarks look like, I don't care. I just need a tool to do my work.

What I do know is that it runs for at least weeks at a time, does absolutely everything I need it to do, and I never feel like I'm waiting for it. Plug/unplug displays, thunderbolt docks, open/close the lid, don't charge it for days at time. Just runs along - cool and silent. I open it, get my work done, close it. Day after day.

I absolutely guarantee that even if this Macbook was $6000 I'm way ahead in terms of productivity not to mention stress and frustration - which I value very, very highly.

It's been "Ohhh, this is NICE" experiences like this that have chipped away at my previous thinking and pulled me further and further towards Apple. Still not perfect (of course) but the time I spend fixing my tools vs being productive isn't even close.

I'm probably just getting old and cranky but I have very little patience for BS at this point in my life. When I was 13 figuring out why RedHat 5.2 didn't boot on my AMD K6 was fun. It's not fun anymore.

Performance is not the only meaningful metric when evaluating the total value of a laptop.

Screen, keyboard, build quality, and a whole host of other factors contribute to it.

Apple works unless you need something specific that every other devices supports but apple doesn't.

I've never had a great experience with any laptop but at least I can't say I didn't get screwed on the price most of the time (non apple times). Who remembers how apple didn't admit or fix the Nvidia GPU on their laptop for years but it was easy to just get a new ipod?

That nVidia GPU issue was a design flaw on nVidia's part that nVidia refused to take responsibility for.

The problem is that normal use and wear and tear over time would lead to the GPU physically failing, leading to a non-bootable system and necessitating a whole new logic board.

Apple had a long standing special service program of covering (very expensive) logic board replacements for all of those MacBook Pros that were usually well out of of warranty¹ because Apple gave a damn about making it right whereas nVidia refused to even acknowledge the issue.

Source: I was a Mac Genius at an Apple Store from 2008 to 2013.

1) https://www.macrumors.com/2017/05/20/apple-ends-2011-macbook...

Apple was supposed to vet them. I expect that answer from razer.

Only took a few years for them to admit it failed under normal use, by that time it was long outdated. I don't pretend waiting at the apple store is a luxury anymore. The brand is tainted to me.

Dell, HP, and Compaq were also affected by the issue. The issue was with the die packaging, nearly impossible to catch post-production.

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2010/10/nvidia-settle...

I’m not going to universally defend Apple (because no one can) but when you have to go back 10 years to come up with an example that as other commenters have noted was a supplier issue it’s not as strong an argument as you may think.

It was my last relationship with a new Mac, and it will remain that way. Why you want to attack my experience I'm uncertain.

I'm not attacking your experience, in the end you got burnt by this (regardless of who was at fault) and that was your experience. That's fair.

That said, as other commenters have noted it wasn't an Apple issue. Nvidia shirked responsibility and Apple stepped up. This is one of the examples where Apple has earned their reputation for user experience and overall "premium" brand halo. They took the loss and replaced any failures related to this fiasco for six years - well beyond the standard warranty period.

In another comment I noted my very poor experience with Framework. It was so bad I basically do what you do and trash them at every opportunity - to me they deserve it. You obviously feel the same way from your Apple experience. The difference is in my case they took no responsibility whatsoever and I'm left with a nearly-useless $3k machine. That's buying first gen hardware from a startup for you, and I should have known better. You bought hardware from a leading and well established brand where this never should have happened. That's far worse.

I mentioned the ten years because a decade in the life of a tech company that has sold billions of devices across multiple product lines and generations in the meantime is (in my mind) a pretty weak argument and borderline irrational stance. You're holding on to a decade old grudge against a brand that has famously happy, dedicated, and loyal users. Apple isn't the most valuable company in the world because your experience is anywhere near typical.

I would hope that in ten years time (or sooner) I will have gotten over my issues with Framework (if they're still around) and would be willing to try them again. I guess we'll see if I'm able to let it go by then.

Apple made a bad computer by using components that were known to break down. Nvidia GPUs on mobile still break that way, and have broken in gaming laptops all the time. It took years for them to admit fault, by that time the computer was worthless. My friends Intel MacBook was good at first and it got worst and worst, he was glad he got applecare. His m1 Mac is doing great, but I'd call the quality closer to the consumer electronic I mentioned earlier. I've had other used MacBooks and laptops since, but apples customer service had gotten worst and there's long waits. If he didn't have apple care for the Intel one he would have hated his Mac too.

Framework is probably not going to be around in less than 10 years. I'm happy some products but not the Apple company. Waiting for hours to be sent away at the apple store is never a luxury and a dreadful experience.

> components that were known to break down

If this was as obvious and well-known as you make it seem it boggles the mind how a primarily hardware company like Apple missed this. I suspect hindsight is 20/20 here. I also have two Nvidia Apple Intel Macbooks (one of which lives in my trunk) that weren't bit by this. Anecdotes, you know.

> My friends Intel MacBook was good at first and it got worst and worst

I'm sitting next to my 2013 Mac Book that I still use daily for occasional testing. The thing just won't die or give me any issues. Anecdotes.

> Waiting for hours to be sent away at the apple store is never a luxury and a dreadful experience.

They at least have the Apple Store available (show me another consumer hardware manufacturer that has anything similar), and needless to say your experiences (again) don't match mine. I've been to multiple Apple Stores in multiple states time and time again and never experienced this. The last time I was at their EXTREMELY busy store on Michigan Ave in Chicago I was in and out inside of 15 minutes. They just handed me a brand new Apple Watch (no AppleCare even) and offered to set it up for me (declined).

I'm not sure what's going on in your world but my social circle is almost exclusively iMessage-blue and I've never heard anything like this. Quite the contrary, actually, and reflective of their overall great reputation for customer service and support.

Dedicated GPUs break on gaming laptops and do often. It's not unknown, apple underclocked it after to prevent it happening again. I love my Apple electronics but their Intel laptops sucked for me.

Now that you mention it, I had a bad experience with their batteries dying in the cold for a while, and luckily I had applecare and it took mutiple geniuses to decide it was a problem even though the problem was known.

It's funny, when I was in Chicago the Michigan one was always AWFUL for me (never helped, swamped with people, appointments were hard to come by) and the one by the Northside was awesome and much better with CS. Maybe management changed, but it's at best inconsistent with our experiences. The times I went in, I heard tons of other people with the same failures I had, some were sent away and some were helped.

How many times did you go to get problems fixed?

Same reason I've become an iPhone fanboy - the alternatives were simply unbearable at some point and the iPhone... was ok. Apparently, consistently ok is a high bar.

Can't say that about macOS, though - it's consistently below expectations for me.

I was a Roku fanboy until they started installing new apps/channels or whatever on the device without prompting me. Now I simp for Apple TV.

I just hook a nuc or similar sff Linux PC to my old 1080p Sony TV and I'm good. All the major streaming sites work in a browser. Best part is I can pause or open another tab and just surf the web in a normal up to date browser.

The other nice thing about Apple TVs is that their hardware isn’t so terribly underpowered compared to other streaming boxes, which is why my Apple TV 4K first gen from 2017 is still snappy running current tvOS, as well as why it can play back media encoded in formats that aren’t hardware accelerated without hiccups.

So yes, it cost me more than a competing box would’ve in 2017, but it’s given me smooth problem free operation the entire time and there’s no sign of that changing any time soon.

I'm using Roku everywhere at this point and haven't run into any issues. Big fan.

I've found the Roku UI to be pretty laggy every time I used it. It seems to be running at 10 FPS or something. Huge turn-off.

Try the Plex app on your TV.