News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by kstrauser on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @12:50PM (#37917917)
The underlying crime was wire fraud, and it happened to be about acquiring IP addresses. He wasn’t prosecuted because he got too many, but for how he got them.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by tlogan on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @01:12PM (#37918243)
Yep. If he had real people or real companies buying these IP addresses (even if they are shell companies) he would be fine. Apparently he started like that but then he got greedy and said: fuck I will just invent some fake people.

The actually criminal activity (fradulent affidavits, forged signatures) started in 2017.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by itchyouch on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @02:10PM (#37919167)
I worked for a dial-up ISP that was going out of business and their last hurrah was selling renting servers doling out clean IPs from their /16 blocks so the clients could spam like crazy.

Then we encountered these spammers were willing to forge BGP LOA stating that they could announce certain, defunct and unused blocks on BGP.

I left there in a hurry, but it seems like they got away with it for a while. It would've been pretty catastrophic if their upstream ISPs decided to cut them off because they were announcing blocks they should not have been.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by tialaramex on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @02:25PM (#37919392)
Of course if the transit providers did a better job (to be fair you're talking about years ago when this wasn't close to practical) they'd reject the announcements as bogus, no need for administrative punishment if it just doesn't work so nobody tries it.

Today RPKI means that machines can in effect authenticate the LOA, the same way your web server is able to prove it's itchyouch.example (or whatever) to a web browser, the real owners of 203.0.113.0/24 can prove to a machine they're the real deal and you aren't. Unfortunately there are still transit providers who don't do that, or have it set just to bring the discrepancy to the attention of a human.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by icedchai on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @03:28PM (#37920347)
Last I checked, RPKI was still not in use for the majority of prefixes: https://rpki-monitor.antd.nist.gov/ROV

This is likely true for much of the legacy space in the US, since ARIN requires you sign their registry agreement and actually pay fees to enable RPKI. It's not grandfathered.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by nodesocket on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @02:30PM (#37919449)
I'm not clear why he needed to use fake names and forged signatures? Couldn't he just create legal LLC's in various states (Nevada is a good one) which don't expose the entities owners and use those to purchase the IPs from ARIN? Rinse and repeat.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by tlogan on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @02:53PM (#37919821)
I assume that he just run out of friends/colleagues/bodies who will run these companies. I do not know how many companies he created but 10 of them were fradulently incorporated.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by nodesocket on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @02:55PM (#37919857)
You don't need friends/bodies. A single person can create as many LLCs as they want is my understanding.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by klipt on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @02:56PM (#37919869)
At what point does using a fake name turn into a felony?

How about creating an email address using a pseudonym?

Or does it have to involve money? If someone uses a fake name to order a sex toy delivered (out of embarrassment) is that wire fraud?

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by kstrauser on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @03:35PM (#37920435)
I'm not a lawyer, but: it becomes a crime when you use it to commit fraud. If you fake a name to buy something embarrassing, then pay the other person as agreed, nothing illegal happened.

My understanding is that using an alias to commit a fraud is an aggravating factor, like it means you went out of your way to deliberately hide your crime. It'd be awfully hard to convince a court that you made an honest mistake if you lied about your identity during the process.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by anonymfus on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @10:52PM (#37924373)
"Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If the violation occurs in relation to, or involving any benefit authorized, transported, transmitted, transferred, disbursed, or paid in connection with, a presidentially declared major disaster or emergency (as those terms are defined in section 102 of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act ( 42 U.S.C. 5122 )), or affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both."

So if you are doing things purely for anonymity it's OK, but if you are registering many email addresses to overcome email service's per account free storage limit, or if you order sex toy delivery for new identity to get a first buyer's discount multiple times, then as I understand that could be a wire fraud.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by hattmall on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @12:12AM (#37924774)
Sounds like using an Adblocker could technically constitute wire fraud. Especially if the service offers a paid version without ads.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by anonymfus on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @11:19AM (#37929910)
I think no, as the clause says "transmits or causes to be transmitted", while ad blocking extensions block specific transmissions. But may be if you use such extension to block a disclaimer on paywalled website which obscures "read more" button, and press that button, causing website to transmit to you a paywalled content, that would be a wire fraud.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by hattmall on Friday October 27, 2023 @10:25PM (#38046515)
Yeah, I guess the question would be if the ad blocker modifies anything that results in two way transmission.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by broknbottle on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @09:10PM (#37923733)
Nah he was doing the forging way before that as I had left my previous role in NOC back in 2017. I dealt with this guy probably around 2015-2016 and after we got a complaint about announcement we suspected forgery as the rightful owner shared more than this guy could except for some docs which apparently the other party never signed but magically there was a signature.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by belter on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @01:02PM (#37918098)
IPv4 addresses are like Socks. You can never have too many...
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by JoshGlazebrook on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @01:12PM (#37918223)
Now just to find where those missing ipv4 addresses are going along with those missing socks.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by SteveNuts on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @01:18PM (#37918318)
Probably lost in the "smart" dryer.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by Scoundreller on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @01:47PM (#37918785)
Tbf, front-loading washing machines can suck in socks.

Have had to pull one out of the pump at the bottom. Best part is your clothes are trapped inside with a half load of water. Or you can chance it and hope it can drain a bit at a time over a dozen drain attempts with burning it out.

I suspect another small article of clothing led to a clog in the line (apartment building). Nothing like a whole washing machine load of water back flowing onto your floor.

Fancier machines have an access hole to open up the pump. Annoying models have 3 screws flush with the ground that are nearly impossible to remove without an “airbag” door entry tool. A couple $9 ones from aliexpress can lift my machine and the dryer on top.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by jacquesm on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @01:53PM (#37918887)
Sockbags are a thing...
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by mtillman on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @01:18PM (#37918320)
Please tell me this was a SOCKS pun.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by short_sells_poo on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @01:53PM (#37918892)
I really like the "Connection reset by beer" pun and it's best used when someone tries to call you while being in a pub.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by remram on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @01:55PM (#37918932)
How about: IP is like SOCKS5, it works great until you add DNS.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by TedDoesntTalk on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @02:22PM (#37919345)
That's only an issue for curl, not other SOCKS5 clients like web browsers.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by KMag on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @02:07PM (#37919118)
Back around the turn of the millennium, there was a company called AllAdvantage. They paid you to install spyware and watch you browse, and sold the analytics to corporations. They'd pay you for... I think it was 48 hours of spied browsing per month, and then stop paying you (but keep spying on you). There was also a pyramid aspect where you'd get something like 10% of all of the amount earned by your direct referrals, with no monthly cap. Also, 48 hours of browsing wasn't enough to hit their minimum threshold for AllAdvantage to mail you a cheque.

A /16 subnet was routed to our fraternity house, licensed to house up to 22 people. 65,536 (minus broadcast, gateway, and network address) IPv4 addresses for 22 people. My roommate bought 1 GB of RAM (about $4k at the time) and a VMWare student license for his Linux desktop. He cut down Win95 to be able to run in 32 MB of RAM (including his COM scripting bot, Internet Explorer, and the AllAdvantage spyware). I seem to remember him configuring the VMs to run 16-bit color to save memory footprint. He scripted the Win95 boot process to read a CSV file off of NFS, remove the top line, and write the file back. The CSV file contained fake name, fake address, etc. The VM would register itself with AllAdvantage, with my roommate as the referrer, and then randomly click on links in Internet Explorer until hitting the payout limit, and then shut down the VM. A Perl script (remember the late 90s?) on the Linux host would re-launch a clean VM every time an old VM shut down, and keep the CSV populated with fake account details.

30 VMs were browsing 24x7 for ALlAdvantage. My roommate set up a caching proxy on his Linux box, so he didn't hose the house's T1 connection. 10% of the payout (the referral fees) over something like 3 months paid for the whole desktop. AllAdvantage never got returned cheques from the fake addresses because they never paid out.

He ran his own DNS server that hopped randomly all over the /16 to reduce the probability of detection. He's pretty convinced AllAdvantage's fraud people noticed him as an extreme outlier. He suspects they ignored him because the data he was generating for them cost 1/11th as much as most of the other data they were selling to customers.

A few years later, our school kept the /16 allocated to us, but only routed the first /24 to the house. I'm sure my roommate wasn't the only one to get up to shenanigans with so many IP addresses.

Edit: He also found some online casinos that didn't explicitly forbid bots and he set up a poker bot that would keep track of its winning percentages against all other players. He set up some monitoring/control software for his feature phone (or was it a PDA) so he could watch his losses from class and shut it down if necessary.

He eventually dropped out of school and was living off of his poker bots until (without health insurance) his appendix burst and he was forced to get a day job to pay off his medical debt.

I hope he gets elected to Congress someday (though he's not very political) just to make a great epilogue to a biographical film.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by jcheng on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @03:40PM (#37920513)
Was this at MIT?
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by KMag on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @04:01PM (#37920756)
Yes. Did you happen to work with the AllAdvantage anti-fraud team, or know a Mechanical Engineering major who dropped out of school writing poker bots and AllAdvantage bots?
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by icedchai on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @06:34PM (#37922503)
MIT is (was?) one of the few schools with enough address space to hand out /16's like that.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by jcheng on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @10:02PM (#37924059)
No, but everything about that story sounded like MIT around the time I was there! Thanks for sharing, took me back.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by pests on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @11:35PM (#37924575)
The frat house getting a /16 and then the ensuring hijinks narrowed down the choices. I would have had MIT at the top of my guesses too.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by KMag on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @05:05PM (#37921556)
It's too late to edit, but I swear I know the difference between ad and add.

On a side note, I thought a naive shuffle with a well-seeded cryptographic-quality pseudorandom number generator was the most likely finding from his poker bot history archive. I thought the linear congruential generator and seeding with the current time were long shots. I was just hoping that the skewed distribution gave a measurable edge over bots and players that were playing under the assumption of a uniform distribution of cards.

Had I thought there was a reasonable probability of a popular poker site using a LCRNG seeded with the current time, I would have been much more persistent in my requests for the history data.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by dang on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @06:56PM (#37922667)
(I fixed those two typos for you)
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by IG_Semmelweiss on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @09:42PM (#37923917)
You had me at alladvantage

That and netzero. The wild west of the internet.

The only thing missing from your story was Napster

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by hn_throwaway_99 on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @01:43PM (#37918688)
Wire fraud, wire fraud, it's nearly always wire fraud. Elizabeth Holmes, George Santos, Charlie Javice, all the people who got fake Covid funds - wire fraud, wire fraud, wire fraud.

In this day and age if you're committing fraud it's pretty hard for it not to be wire fraud given how everything is transmitted digitally. And penalties for wire fraud are extremely steep (up 20 years for each charge), and it automatically makes it a federal crime. So just don't...

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by tpmx on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @01:55PM (#37918934)
If he had used e.g. the USPS mail service, would it then have been mail fraud instead? Similar sentencing?
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by kstrauser on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @02:11PM (#37919169)
Yes. Also, you do not want the Postal Inspectors showing up looking for you. Like, for real.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by theideaofcoffee on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @02:34PM (#37919507)
Yep, don't fuck with Postal Inspectors.

Anecdotal, second-hand story I remembered being told by a former colleague with some significant time working in the Postal service: state or city police pulled over a contracted semi truck carrying mail from one station to the other on suspicion of running un-taxed cigarette shipments from a reservation manufacturer. Because the semi was contracted by the postal service, they had the requisite security: tags, seals and the magical panic button in the cab of the tractor. The driver pushed the button when the state/city police broke the seal and started rummaging through parcels which summoned the inspectors, guns drawn to the scene. Apparently the Postal Inspectors arrested the -police- at that scene on breaking and entering mail facilities.

Some of the details pertaining to why the shipment was actually legal and the police didn't have cause/jurisdiction yadda yadda yadda I don't remember, but still a good story even if the telling of it by my former colleague was more engaging than I can recount.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by Arrath on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @02:58PM (#37919913)
That reminds me of a story from a good friend who works in the Idaho National Labs, which have some areas under rather tight security.

As the story goes, one of the scientists there copped a warrant high grade enough for the Federal Marshals to come by and make an arrest. They were stopped at one of the gates into a more secure area, asked their business, and told that security would send out the person in question. The Marshals balked at this and demanded to be let in to make the arrest, lest the fugitive make good an escape somehow. After security asked for their requisite clearance, which the Marshals could not provide, it continued to escalate. Fingering their pistol butts, the Marshals insisted they were on lawful business and must be let in, while the guards with rifles replied that by all means the Marshals might make their entry but as armed intruders into a secure laboratory they would promptly get shot.

The pissing match took long enough that the fugitive was finally marched up to the gate and taken into custody before it could escalate further, at this point I believe the Marshals were on the phone with their higher ups trying to plead their case to be let in.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by kens on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @05:26PM (#37921808)
The version of that story that I read is much longer, by Funranium Labs. It is entertainingly written, but I wonder how much is urban legend: https://www.funraniumlabs.com/2018/09/the-fringes-of-regulat...
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by floren on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @07:58PM (#37923181)
Boy, that's a level of "sysadmin read too many BOFH stories and also thinks being 5'11" & bearded is a superpower" bombast I thought died out years ago.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by IggleSniggle on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @08:29AM (#37927657)
Bombastics never die! They simply fade away...
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by marcus0x62 on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @04:00PM (#37920728)
Quite a bit more boring, but a co-worker once paid a contractor to install some blinds in his house, for a few thousand dollars. Dude took a down payment and then never delivered/installed the product, wouldn’t return their calls, etc.

My coworker went to the local police, who wouldn’t do anything, but then his lawyer advised him to go to the postal inspector (he had mailed the check to the contractor.)

The contractor ended up getting five years in federal prison for mail fraud.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by tpmx on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @04:09PM (#37920840)
The US justice system seems very odd to this European. Then I realize that if the EU project ever were to reach its presumed goals (by some), we'd probably end up with something pretty similar in terms of "oddness complexity".
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by cryptonector on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @04:28PM (#37921102)
I'd say you're already there.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by tpmx on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @05:00PM (#37921494)
In terms of law enforcement: I disagree. It's like 97% national still.

In terms of civil disputes between citizens from different member countries - well, we don't have any phone/internet/post police.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by cryptonector on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @05:53PM (#37922125)
But you have the European arrest warrant now, right? So it may all be national, but also kinda international.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by marcus0x62 on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @05:04PM (#37921543)
Oh, it is absolutely wild, which I don't think is a very good characteristic for a legal system, especially one where the rule is that 'ignorance of the law is not a defense'.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by ben_w on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @05:31PM (#37921884)
I think we need a new take on that phrase, something like "ignorance of the law must not be a reasonable defence" — when the law is too complex for most people to understand, it is vulnerable to capricious enforcement, malicious compliance, and unwitting everyday violations being held against the politically undesirable.

Not only do I have absolutely no idea how to get from here to there, I also assume the degree of simplification I desire — to the point that normal people know what's going on most of the time — is the legal equivalent of saying "Twitter doesn't need 6000 employees because Mark Zuckerberg wrote Facebook by himself in college" in a software engineering context, and wrong for much the same reasons.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by marcus0x62 on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @06:24PM (#37922415)
I think we could start by requiring mens rea for any felony offense.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by TacticalCoder on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @08:00PM (#37923197)
One of my favorite saying is this: "The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state" (thousands years old saying and nothing has changed).

And, oh boy, do we have many laws.

It is by design, to oppress the people.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by vasco on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @02:39AM (#37925471)
At work do you also say the legacy projects that are a pain to work with are by design, to oppress the programmers?
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by BeFlatXIII on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @11:03AM (#37929714)
You don't even need to consider ALL laws. Just look at the tax code in isolation for good examples.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by jonathankoren on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @05:41PM (#37921990)
I often think it’s because Europe doesn’t typically have federalism.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by williamcotton on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @06:52PM (#37922634)
I’m sure to anyone in the UK these ancient oddities seem pretty familiar.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by chinchilla2020 on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @07:27PM (#37922916)
It is directly based on the UK's legal system. I am sure the same oddities are present there as well. Probably moreso since they are an old country.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by thayne on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @11:58PM (#37924714)
> The US justice system seems very odd to this European.

I very much agree. And I live in the US.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by spandrew on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @05:53PM (#37922121)
Or... do?

77k fine for a net worth of $10-14 million from his businesses, and a 5 years sentence at a minimum security prison (with the likelihood of parole much earlier) is not a bad retirement plan.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by tacon on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @09:51PM (#37923983)
There is no parole in the Federal prison system.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by squintychino on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @02:13PM (#37919199)
Story time? What makes Postal Inspectors so feared.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by actionfromafar on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @02:24PM (#37919368)
I don’t but I was surprised to learn they have guns.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Inspect...

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by SkipperCat on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @07:43PM (#37923035)
In America, its surprising to find out someone does NOT have a gun.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by abfaqb on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @02:14PM (#37919216)
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by tpmx on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @02:37PM (#37919567)
I mean, if we're going there, there is this 30 Rock scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5S74kKimFs

Jake (Andy Samberg) and Charles (Joe Lo Truglio) form an unlikely alliance with Jack Danger (Ed Helms), a nerdy lead investigator at the United States Postal Inspection Service, as they embark on a mission to crack the case to bring down a drug dealer.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by djbusby on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @03:24PM (#37920284)
It's B99 not 30 Rock
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by devmor on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @02:59PM (#37919942)
They are well trained, judicious and exacting in their conduct. They do not screw around and they do everything by the book. They're like what we wish regular police officers were.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by acdha on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @03:59PM (#37920723)
I credit a lot of that to not being part of the homeland security culture: they work for the post office, their job is keeping the idea that you do NOT mess with US mail. I think a lot of the problems with cop culture come back to the idea that they’re basically soldiers separate from the community and doing such an important job that some collateral abuse just has to be expected.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by zinclozenge on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @03:26PM (#37920326)
Some agencies, ones you might not even expect like the USPS and FDA, also have law enforcement powers, but have very narrow jurisdiction (relative to general law enforcement agencies like the FBI). So when a case actually does fall under their jurisdiction, they execute their duties "with extreme prejudice", so to speak. Assuming the story from the OP you replied to is true, the fact that they arrested the police officers would show how seriously they take their duties, even if the officers tampering with the mail was due to carelessness while they themselves were performing their duty.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by Tabular-Iceberg on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @06:31PM (#37922485)
Still not as wild as the fact that while everyone was ridiculing Trump for instituting a space force, they have had a weather force, officially the "NOAA Commissioned Officer Corps", since 1917.

But in all fairness, the distinctions are all pretty arbitrary, I'm sure people were laughing as much when the navy spun off their weather stuff and when the army spun off their flying stuff as they do now with the air force spinning off the space stuff.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by lost_tourist on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @07:02PM (#37922723)
We laughed at it because it was the product of someone who isn't really known for original thoughts or consideration of complex concepts, so we all kind of assumed it was just a joke.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by Tabular-Iceberg on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @08:53AM (#37927890)
Who, Donald Rumsfeld?
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by tharkun__ on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @07:15PM (#37922837)
This makes a lot of sense to me.

It's a psychological thing as far as I have been told. As in, the smaller the "amount" or "area" of power you give someone to enforce / defend the fiercer they will do so.

I saw this live once. A tiny office building's front entrance security guard. Had a sign in/out list for visitors. He was o the stereotypical leaned back in his chair, far away from the heightened desk type guy. Our visitor wanted to sign out. He knew the procedure from other days. The list sat behind the counter but in plain view. Our guest thought nothing of it so as he mentioned he'd leave and just sign out he grabbed the list from behind the counter. You should have seen how fast the security guy got up from his chair and started shouting at the guy what the... he was thinking just grabbing that list! He pulled the list back out of our visitors hands and then we heard a littany of other stuff. Until he finally let him actually sign out

I guess one can make use of this in some cases :)

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by Ichthypresbyter on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @04:25AM (#37926144)
I think that every Department of the US Government (and AFAIK most if not all of the independent agencies) has at least one armed law enforcement agency, though in many cases all it does is ensure the security of the department's buildings and protect against corruption by its employees.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by extraduder_ire on Thursday October 19, 2023 @07:33AM (#37941400)
Notably, if you have a counterfeit dollar bill it's the secret service that deals with it.

I've read of someone who worked at a bank who was told that after getting a counterfeit, looked them up in the phone book, and they dealt with it promptly.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by easterncalculus on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @03:42PM (#37920537)
For one the Postal Inspection service consistently has a high conviction rate around 98%[0]. Whether that's due to operational excellence or the ability to unwrap evidence for a living is subject for discussion.

[0]: https://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2019/pb22524/html/cov...

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by queuebert on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @05:02PM (#37921515)
Or it doesn't move unless it's nearly certain of its case.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by Renaud on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @10:50PM (#37924358)
Or the law is so wide-ranging that basically anyone is guilty of something.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by xwdv on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @02:17PM (#37919266)
I once committed mail fraud when I was 17 years old. I had been using the return address as a destination address on envelopes to send mail to places for free without stamps. Finally got caught one day at the local branch. Postal Inspectors said I could face 20 to 30 years in federal prison.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by kylecazar on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @02:53PM (#37919834)
In other words just not putting stamps at all, and the postal service would 'return' it to the address listed as return (which is actually your destination)?
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by selimthegrim on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @03:37PM (#37920465)
Don't they stamp "postage due" on it if you're short postage?
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by zie on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @05:02PM (#37921514)
They do, but if you put it in a public post box(like say @ the post office), the only way they know where to send it is to the return address.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by WinstonSmith84 on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @03:14PM (#37920166)
That's insane. 20 to 30 years in federal prison for having defrauded the post of how many letters? Imagining you've been sending couple of letters a weeks at most, that's like what? $10 per months!?
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by civilitty on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @03:51PM (#37920625)
That's just the maximum they use to scare people with. Federal sentencing guidelines aren't that severe and a first time offender with something as mild as using the return address to send a few letters would plead out to a few hundred or thousand dollar fine and maybe probation, say nothing of the fact that the OP was underage.

IANAL but to get 20 years they'd have to commit a massive fraud that ended in some serious damage like costing victims million of dollars with some other mitigating circumstances.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by hollerith on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @03:52PM (#37920643)
>to get 20 years they'd have to commit a massive fraud . . . with some other mitigating circumstances.

You mean aggravating circumstances.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by fsckboy on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @05:26PM (#37921815)
just knowing that my neighbor was sending his mail this way would aggravate me!
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by MajimasEyepatch on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @03:53PM (#37920659)
Federal sentencing rules are very complex and take into account both the severity of the crime (as determined by its "offense level," of which there are 43) and the defendant's criminal history. I don't know the offense level of the particular crime mentioned in the comment, but presumably it would be fairly low, and since the defendant would have been a minor with (presumably) no federal criminal history, it's very unlikely IMO that they would have seen anywhere near that long if they were convicted. My guess is fines, probation, maybe a few months at worst, but judging by the tone of the comment, it seems like basically nothing happened and this was just a "scared straight" scenario.[1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Federal_Sentenci...

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by murphyslaw on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @03:47PM (#37920588)
I was part of a conspiracy to commit massive credit card fraud as a minor (thankfully all no longer relevant). I was given AT&T calling card numbers which were pilfered right from the USPS to use to connect to US BBSes to download hacked software.

The Belgian guy I was in with got raided by the police. His hard disks had been hidden behind a brick wall with only the cables visible. They didn't find the hard disks so he got away with it, and I never got arrested or charged.

Good times.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by sprokolopolis on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @04:02PM (#37920757)
I tried this a few times as a little kid to see if it would work. If I sent it from my home, it didn't work and I got it returned with red pen notes on it explaining how to send it properly. I am sure it looked like a little kids writing, so they gave me the benefit of the doubt. Next I mailed it from the post office and that actually worked, as long as it was being sent locally.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by felipemnoa on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @03:34PM (#37920428)
You really need to tells us how you learned not to mess with Postal Inspectors. Sounds like a really interesting story is lurking behind your post...
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by newZWhoDis on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @07:08PM (#37922774)
This hasn’t been my experience. Recently reported a large problematic activity involving hundreds of mailboxes. The post office told me to call the postal inspectors, and the postal inspectors said call my local office.

Idk where the “postal inspectors are bad ass” meme comes from online, but from my sample size they’re just as useless as any other government org.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by missedthecue on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @07:21PM (#37922877)
I was going to say the same thing. My passport was stolen from a mail truck a few years ago and the last update I got from the postal inspectors was that they gave up and told me I wasn't getting my parcel back, and that I should cut my losses. And that was only about 2 weeks after the theft occurred, although they did send me automated "we haven't made progress" emails every 6 months until the case was officially closed. Their "investigation" might as well have never happened.

For some reason, the internet thinks they are a group of James Bond secret agents. In my experience dealing with them, they are TSA level, totally indifferent schlubby federal workers waiting for their pension to vest.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by shiroiuma on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @02:48AM (#37925522)
I wonder how much the timeframe matters. I feel like a lot of stuff in the US has really gone down the toilet in the last 20 years, so maybe the Postal Inspectors really were badass 50+ years ago.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by bastardoperator on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @04:19PM (#37920989)
Interstate commerce? Just spitballing...
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by WD40forRust on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @03:59PM (#37920719)
Sounds like I need to target wire fraud as well, with drug cultivation/sales, firearm manufacture/sale/possession (even by a felon), and tax evasion to my list of charges to jury nullify on...
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by hn_throwaway_99 on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @04:33PM (#37921181)
So you're in favor of letting people (usually rich people) commit wire fraud?
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by donatj on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @08:57PM (#37923630)
When it's a victimless crime like this?
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by mlyle on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @10:12PM (#37924132)
It's hardly victimless-- when you lie to get something of value that would otherwise go to other people, and then sell it, you're ripping those people off.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by donatj on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @12:41AM (#37924915)
No one lost anything here. No one is worse off than had this not happened.

At worst rent seekers didn’t get to collect rent for something that cost them nothing. An imaginary commodity, a literal number.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by mlyle on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @01:53AM (#37925252)
> No one lost anything here. At worst rent seekers didn’t get to collect rent for something that cost them nothing.

This was your original comment.

The opposite is true here: a person received addresses at low costs reserved for people who don't have any addressing of their own, and then sold the addresses for millions of dollars to companies who already have a lot of addresses and would be ineligible for this.

They pretended to be dozens of new companies to do this. They filed false affidavits where they swore facts that were untrue.

Meanwhile companies actually eligible for ARIN's initial block policy had to wait indefinitely because this scalper had snatched up all the inventory. Were they not harmed?

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by fshbbdssbbgdd on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @04:45PM (#37921347)
(Not a lawyer)

Fraud basically means lying to someone to steal from them. Wire fraud means doing that using electronic communications.

Of course there can be bogus charges and you should vote to acquit on those, but wire fraud seems squarely in the set of things that should be illegal if we have laws at all.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by queuebert on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @05:05PM (#37921555)
It's often easier to prove this (or, even more often, tax evasion) than prove the alleged criminal activity. Either way, bad guy goes to jail, so the government is happy.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by SoftTalker on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @10:44PM (#37924327)
Would like to see Amazon charged with wire fraud for all the counterfeit stuff they sell. It's paid for "by wire" is it not? And almost certainly across state lines which makes it federal.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by andsoitis on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @10:55PM (#37924385)
Fraud is the wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.

While counterfeit stuff are sold by vendors in the marketplace that Amazon provides, that is not equivalent to Amazon being the one selling the stuff.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by kaetemi on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @11:33PM (#37924553)
In what imaginary world is accepting payment and shipping the item not the same as selling the item?
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by andsoitis on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @12:03AM (#37924735)
The difference between being an Amazon Vendor and a Seller: https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesbusinesscouncil/2023/01/2...
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by kaetemi on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @12:15AM (#37924784)
Right, but there are plenty of counterfeit items shipped by Amazon. Just search for 1TB USB stick. Whatever internal distinctions they make don't matter to the reality that they are accepting payment and shipping the items.

Substance over form.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by fphhotchips on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @01:38AM (#37925177)
The vendor that appears on my Credit Card statement is Amazon. The organisation who sets the commercial terms is Amazon. The website is completely Amazon branded. The goods are usually stored in a big warehouse with "Amazon" written on the side and delivered by someone engaged and paid by Amazon. The box that arrives has "Amazon Prime" written all over it.

I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned, Amazon is selling the item.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by queuebert on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @09:09AM (#37928108)
A former Nascar driver, Jeremy Mayfield, was charged with felonies for (supposedly) unknowingly selling stolen goods through his scrap yard.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by flashback2199 on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @03:26AM (#37925779)
Then why is eBay in court for allowing emissions defeat devices to be sold on its platform, eBay didn't sell them?
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by shiroiuma on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @02:14AM (#37925349)
1. Amazon ships plenty of counterfeit merchandise.

2. There is so much counterfeit stuff on Amazon that they should know about it, and should be held responsible since they do nothing about it. "Should have known" is sufficient for guilt in a court of law, when the thing is blatantly obvious.

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by dustingetz on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @06:36AM (#37926901)
silk road
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by JacobThreeThree on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @06:05PM (#37922242)
Governments love overbroad laws that can be selectively enforced.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by lost_tourist on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @06:57PM (#37922678)
I wonder if it's ancient communications methods fraud if you do it by carrier pigeon...
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by moffkalast on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @07:08PM (#37922777)
Unless you do it over wifi, then it's technically wireless fraud.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by carrja99 on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @02:01PM (#37919027)
Get out of here with your facts. I want to live in a world where I can believe an individual will get hard time for acquiring too many IP addresses.
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by rs999gti on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @02:03PM (#37919062)
> The underlying crime was wire fraud

The other crime was looking like a douche canoe for his profile pic - https://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/amirg...

Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by kstrauser on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @02:07PM (#37919109)
"The prosecution would like to present Exhibit A..."
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by bhdlr on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @03:12PM (#37920136)
He looks like he was in a goth band while he was getting really good grades at one of Canada's top business schools
Re:Tech CEO Sentenced to 5 Years in IP Address Scheme by rs999gti on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @04:37PM (#37921242)
He looks like a contestant on VH1's The Pickup Artist - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pickup_Artist_(TV_series)