That reminds me of a story from a good friend who works in the Idaho National Labs, which have some areas under rather tight security.

As the story goes, one of the scientists there copped a warrant high grade enough for the Federal Marshals to come by and make an arrest. They were stopped at one of the gates into a more secure area, asked their business, and told that security would send out the person in question. The Marshals balked at this and demanded to be let in to make the arrest, lest the fugitive make good an escape somehow. After security asked for their requisite clearance, which the Marshals could not provide, it continued to escalate. Fingering their pistol butts, the Marshals insisted they were on lawful business and must be let in, while the guards with rifles replied that by all means the Marshals might make their entry but as armed intruders into a secure laboratory they would promptly get shot.

The pissing match took long enough that the fugitive was finally marched up to the gate and taken into custody before it could escalate further, at this point I believe the Marshals were on the phone with their higher ups trying to plead their case to be let in.

The version of that story that I read is much longer, by Funranium Labs. It is entertainingly written, but I wonder how much is urban legend: https://www.funraniumlabs.com/2018/09/the-fringes-of-regulat...

Boy, that's a level of "sysadmin read too many BOFH stories and also thinks being 5'11" & bearded is a superpower" bombast I thought died out years ago.

Bombastics never die! They simply fade away...

Quite a bit more boring, but a co-worker once paid a contractor to install some blinds in his house, for a few thousand dollars. Dude took a down payment and then never delivered/installed the product, wouldn’t return their calls, etc.

My coworker went to the local police, who wouldn’t do anything, but then his lawyer advised him to go to the postal inspector (he had mailed the check to the contractor.)

The contractor ended up getting five years in federal prison for mail fraud.

The US justice system seems very odd to this European. Then I realize that if the EU project ever were to reach its presumed goals (by some), we'd probably end up with something pretty similar in terms of "oddness complexity".

I'd say you're already there.

In terms of law enforcement: I disagree. It's like 97% national still.

In terms of civil disputes between citizens from different member countries - well, we don't have any phone/internet/post police.

But you have the European arrest warrant now, right? So it may all be national, but also kinda international.

Oh, it is absolutely wild, which I don't think is a very good characteristic for a legal system, especially one where the rule is that 'ignorance of the law is not a defense'.

I think we need a new take on that phrase, something like "ignorance of the law must not be a reasonable defence" — when the law is too complex for most people to understand, it is vulnerable to capricious enforcement, malicious compliance, and unwitting everyday violations being held against the politically undesirable.

Not only do I have absolutely no idea how to get from here to there, I also assume the degree of simplification I desire — to the point that normal people know what's going on most of the time — is the legal equivalent of saying "Twitter doesn't need 6000 employees because Mark Zuckerberg wrote Facebook by himself in college" in a software engineering context, and wrong for much the same reasons.

I think we could start by requiring mens rea for any felony offense.

One of my favorite saying is this: "The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state" (thousands years old saying and nothing has changed).

And, oh boy, do we have many laws.

It is by design, to oppress the people.

At work do you also say the legacy projects that are a pain to work with are by design, to oppress the programmers?

You don't even need to consider ALL laws. Just look at the tax code in isolation for good examples.

I often think it’s because Europe doesn’t typically have federalism.

I’m sure to anyone in the UK these ancient oddities seem pretty familiar.

It is directly based on the UK's legal system. I am sure the same oddities are present there as well. Probably moreso since they are an old country.

> The US justice system seems very odd to this European.

I very much agree. And I live in the US.

Or... do?

77k fine for a net worth of $10-14 million from his businesses, and a 5 years sentence at a minimum security prison (with the likelihood of parole much earlier) is not a bad retirement plan.

There is no parole in the Federal prison system.