1. The manufacturing process results in those precursor chemicals entering urban water supplies where they are nearly impossible to filter out (only RO is effective and it's not even 100% effective), and once in the bloodstream of people are powerful endrocrine disruptors which circulate and are filtered slowly by the kidneys... and when peed out go right back into the water supply due to not being able to be removed during treatment. These "forever chemicals" are some of the most health damaging pollutants in the West.

2. Teflon is extremely hazardous when consumed and it flakes off of the pans over time (which is why they must be replaced often) or when incorrect utensils are used (common among unsophisticated users).

3. Teflon can overheat on a standard consumer stove using standard cooking techniques. You actually need different techniques to prevent overheating a Teflon pan.

4. Cast Iron is effectively non-stick after enough use, and you can absolutely fry an egg in it without sticking if you have a smooth-bottom pan (either a vintage cast iron, new vintage-style, or a new style that you've sanded down and seasoned yourself).

I replied to the GP, but I fry eggs in a bog-standard Lodge which is neither vintage nor sanded down. It still has a distinct ”pebbly” appearance to it, though perhaps less than when I first got it.

Works like a charm, and a shake of the pan is usually all that’s needed to release eggs.

That's why I said it was "a little misleading" rather that outright false. "poisonous" sort of implies that the object itself is poisonous or is bad for you. I'm sure manufacturing a smartphone causes a bunch of environmental damage, but you wouldn't call it poisonous (outside of putting in in your mouth).

>2. Teflon is extremely hazardous when consumed and it flakes off of the pans over time (which is why they must be replaced often) or when incorrect utensils are used (common among unsophisticated users).

source? This is contradicted by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene#Safety

>3. Teflon can overheat on a standard consumer stove using standard cooking techniques. You actually need different techniques to prevent overheating a Teflon pan.

Like I said in my initial comment, teflon has its uses. I'm not saying it's the best tool for every job. Given that, I highly doubt this applies if I'm just cooking my eggs.

>4. Cast Iron is effectively non-stick after enough use, and you can absolutely fry an egg in it without sticking if you have a smooth-bottom pan (either a vintage cast iron, new vintage-style, or a new style that you've sanded down and seasoned yourself).

Sounds like a lot of work to me. In other words, the teflon pan is actually more convenient.

It’s actually zero work, despite the recent uptick in people who think you need to coddle a cast iron pan. Most of the tips people give for dealing with cast iron are pointless extra work or actively make it perform worse.

I wash mine with soap and water and it takes about a minute, or about as long as washing a Teflon pan. Frequently I don’t even bother with this, and just wipe it out with a paper towel.

There was no need to jump through hoops to specially season the thing. Just use it, and its non-stick properties increase over time. It’s zero maintenance and I’ve had the damn thing for over a decade now.

I can also sympathize with anyone who is of below average strength (children, injured or disabled, advanced age) not choosing cast iron, they are heavy compared to a Teflon pan.

It's just not as common as people think when they hear about it.

The real solution isn’t to reseason. It’s to just wash the damn thing. Soap, water, and whatever scrub brush does the job. Nothing you do short of steel wool is going to make a dent in the seasoning.

Not washing with soap is one of those widespread myths that actively makes your cast iron perform worse. I struggled with this problem constantly until I stopped babying my cast iron and I’ve never had a problem since.

What totally changed my perspective was trying to get the black stuff off an aluminum sheet pan. It’s a slightly different bond than the seasoning on a cast iron pan but functionally they’re both the same thing. Getting that off a sheet pan required meticulously scrubbing with steel wool and a lot of elbow grease. It clicked for me that if it’s that hard to get it off a sheet pan, it’s not coming off my cast iron because I used a little Dawn.

I personally dont like cooking, and I avoid anything requiring more than 3 items - my steel pans remove the annoying factors (equipment handling, maintenance & care) make me dread cooking a little less. Had the pans for 4-5 years now and they are an absolute joy to use

Sticking is often a matter of temperature control. Once you get used to it, there’s very little difference to a teflon pan.

I know that teflon would be slightly more convenient but the health tradeoff doesn’t seem worth it.

I'm probably being a little nitpicky/contrarian when I say this, but for my cooking style, teflon is actually more.

I cook with large amounts of fat (generally beef fat - tallow and/or suet) every meal, which on Teflon causes a nightmare of a mess to clean. With my cast iron pan, I just wipe off a bit of the excess and let the rest say in the pan, forming a non-stick coating. I've not cooked any eggs in a while, but I reckon (granted, possibly falsely, since I've not tested this) that I would fry one without any special precautions due the amount of grease I cook with in normal times.

So for some people, the cast iron cooking style is actually easier because there is less cleaning.

https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/is-teflon-coating-safe#:~....

This is not to go against your other points, but stop spreading FUD please.

It's very common to use incorrect utensils (metal) because the correct ones (wood, plastic) are are harder to clean and don't last as long, and few people would choose to use such utensils if all else were equal.

I'm hell-bent on getting something with zero smart function- just ports. TVs like that will become gold in the future, when smart tvs will have ad banners that you can't turn off. The cost of media has come full circle. My prediction is: 1. All TVs have smart functions and no input ports 2. TV manufactures will be cutting deals with advertisers to display banner ads. Maybe you'll be lucky enough to pay for ad free. 3. Aggregate streaming services will provide access to multiple services for a flat fee. Welcome back to cable! 4. Total cost of consuming TV media will be eat average income budgets away

It's definitely worth considering but there are pros and cons to consider, it's not an acceptable replacement in all situations.

Not even that, I suspect that projectors would be defeated by mid-range VA-LED TVs, especially when you factor in that TVs have nifty tricks like FALD

And you can't even make the picture on the wall smaller if you want, it always dominates completely.

When my mother is visiting we just want to half watch some game show and chit chat, we don't want to have a movie night, and we don't want to focus entirely on each other/conversation for a whole evening either, it's kind of exhausting.

It seems up on the latest hdmi standards and it turns on and off with the appletv plugged in.

As far as I know, Apple TV doesn’t do this, and Kodi + Raspberry Pi seems clear of it too.

Maybe I should have gone with Kodi.

Apparently this is enforced by the regulators. If it has a tuner it will say "television" on the box. Otherwise it says something like "monitor" or "display".

Even the best TVs had atrocious latency compared to cheap monitors. I don’t really know why this is, but it likely has something to expensive transformations to the video signal to “improve” quality. I have very pricy 1080p Samsung TV from 2013. Even in “Game Mode” I has latency of over 100ms. This enough to be noticeable in just moving a mouse around, let alone gaming.

That has been mostly rectified nowadays. I have an LG C1 (42”) and use it for gaming and work. It has <1ms average latency and just enough pixel density for computer use. It does need a good desk though.

The biggest remaining differences would be:

- TVs tend to have a “smart interface”. This can generally be avoided if you are just switching between inputs. - TVs tend not to support DisplayPort input. - TVs tend require large desk stands and are not VESA compatible. You need a large desk to use one as a monitor. - Very few TVs with high quality panels are available in smaller more pixel dense sizes. I’m imagining this will become less of a problem with a move to 8k. - TVs tend to have almost unusable colour calibration out of the box. Rtings reviews tends to note how close the displays get to a standard colour profile after calibration. Many can be calibrated to a reasonable level though. - OLED panels are much more common in TVs.

I have found this issue of latency to be a real challenge when connecting to a TV via HDMI so I'm curious if it gets better with larger TVs

https://www.displayninja.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/best...

Look for a used signage panel. No commercial smart functions and quality that's barely available in consumer TVs but sometime can be had really cheap if you find the right place, look on govdeals, if your patient.

My last two tvs had smart crap built in; I never set any of ot up, not even as far as connecting to wifi.

FWIW it's pretty easy to fry eggs in a cast iron. You do have to oil the pan, but I wouldn't call it absurd. Just a dollop of oil in the pan. And the end result has a crispy, yummy texture that's hard to achieve with Teflon. It just takes a little practice and an open mind.

If you have a good seasoning then less oil while cooking is needed. If you have a new pan with a rougher surface then using a steel spatula will smooth out the surface texture and improve performance (without making it too smooth where seasoning won't stick).

There's a lot of varying advice on cast iron, but the prevailing wisdom seems to be that if you keep using it then the pan will improve.

Cast iron doesn’t seem to work as well on electric stoves: Temperature control is problematic. Perhaps induction heating would be more effective?

Fried eggs are just aldehyde cancer hell. There's so much out there you can cook without any oil and it's handy to know for sure. Try cooking stuff in sauces instead for example.

[1] https://www.seriouseats.com/thmb/3KEyHXkLBbmzhHgp5P81odFcIR0...

[2] https://www.seriouseats.com/classic-over-easy-fried-eggs-rec...

I also make scrambled eggs, but tend to use a tbsp (15ml) butter, but that is more for flavor and texture than to keep from sticking

Of course it's crispy, you are deep-frying your eggs in oil, like McDonalds-style fries. It may feel delicious, like almost anything overcooked with high temperature, but it is not quite healthy.

Just because you have drowning eggs in oil does not mean everyone does it that way.

We fry our eggs every morning on a cast iron skillet with a tiny amount of oil (<1 teaspoon for 6 eggs). The only time I have problems with stuff sticking is if I get impatient and don't wait for the pan to preheat.

This is one of the biggest contributors to teflon's mythology: you can't preheat a teflon pan safely (it ruins the coating), so people learn to not preheat. They then get frustrated when using other pans that things stick that wouldn't have on their teflon.

(Edit: the skillet is a cheap, unaltered Lodge, nothing antique or sanded.)

FWIW I shrug and use my cast iron.

You just need to let the pan heat up, drop a teaspoon of oil or butter, let if soak in a second then blast it and drop your egg.

More butter more better but that's flavour at that point.

For figuring out if your plans at the right heat, a spalsg of water should bead and float around.

Going that hot with Teflon will give you the Teflon flu.

Only thing I use nonstick for is scrabled eggs and pancakes where a low heat is beneficial.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4284091/

I kind of suspect the bizarre health correlation for olive oil relates to its poor temperature range.

For fried eggs you just need to make sure it's hot enough with oil it should bubble and fry without sticking.

What if you count having to view ads, and having the tv spy on you as a cost? RN,for many TVs you can just not connect to wifi, but how long until the TV won't work unless it is connected?

> Also, the claim itself doesn't really make any sense. Even if you stop getting software updates, that doesn't prevent you from using it as a dumb display.

Perhaps a better argument is that a bad software can brick the TV, or the components of the smart functionality break in a way that prevents you from using it as a dumb tv (i.e. it has more "moving parts"), and if you don't use the smart functionality, then it is a waste of the materials to make those components, and probably electricity running through the circuits. And it isn't too hard to imagine a future where the tv just stops working if it can't phone home.

I don't connect it to wifi, problem solved.

>for many TVs you can just not connect to wifi, but how long until the TV won't work unless it is connected?

Is there reason to believe that it won't work? The "smart" TV I have hasn't been connected to wifi for years and still works.

>Perhaps a better argument is that a bad software can brick the TV, or the components of the smart functionality break in a way that prevents you from using it as a dumb tv (i.e. it has more "moving parts")

I don't get it, are you trying to have your cake (smart functionality) and eat it too (smart functionality randomly breaking stuff)? If you use it as a dumb TV from day 1 I can't imagine why it would randomly break later.

>and if you don't use the smart functionality, then it is a waste of the materials to make those components, and probably electricity running through the circuits

The nvidia shield TV uses 6W while streaming. Presumably the smart TV component probably uses something similar or less than that. In the grand scheme of things it's nothing.

>And it isn't too hard to imagine a future where the tv just stops working if it can't phone home.

That's seems to be more of a theoretical concern than something that's actually happening right now.

I've heard of some tvs that work that way, rn it is the exception rather than the rule, but there is an incentive for tv makers to move in that direction.

> If you use it as a dumb TV from day 1 I can't imagine why it would randomly break later.

Smart tvs have inherently more complicated electronics, and that means more things to break. If you don't use the smart features it might be less likely for those components to break, but unless the designers were careful to sufficiently isolate the smart components, it still increases the chances of breakage.

> That's seems to be more of a theoretical concern than something that's actually happening right now.

For TVs maybe, but it is already the case for other "smart" devices like thermostats.

That's because many cast iron pans you can get these days have unpolished bottoms unlike antique ones. If you get a polished one (or polish it yourself - there's plenty of youtube videos on that) it'll be incredible non-stick. You can also just get a carbon steel pan which doesn't need polishing.

Someone then claimed my pan was manganese deficient due to some war in Gabon pre-WWII. It will always be something with these people.

Sounds pretty inconvenient to me, which directly opposes author's thesis.

After spending a few weeks trying, I’ve had multiple people tell me they got theirs ‘seasoned’ after three or four months.

Don’t let yourself be sucked in.

There is a /lot/ of bullshit myths around cast iron, like that you cannot use soap for instance, or shouldn't scrub it, both of which are totally fine, but the idea of seasoning and what occurs when it's done properly are entirely true. Most people just want to otherthink it. All you need to do with cast iron is use it and care for it properly, the longer and more often you use it, the better it gets.

But people who say you can easily cook eggs in it or everything else "after its seasoned" are just not to be listened to. Use a nonstick.

EDIT: Or carbon steel I guess. Even then, meh. Remember that the vast majority of professional chefs use nonstick skillets specifically for eggs both at home and in their workplace.

That said, one thing I have come to realize over the past couple of decades of cooking with cast iron is that seasoning is less some mystical ritual that is performed one time, and more a result of proper use and care of the pan over time.

But yes, there is lots of ritualized BS (“Don’t wash it”, “Never use dish soap”, “Only season it using flax oil in the oven at 200 degrees for four hours”, etc etc etc).

-In the very beginning, bake it in an oven with a very thin layer of crisco two times

-Only use it for eggs for a while, letting the butter turn into seasoning with higher heat as it cools. Find the right preheating ranges by experiment.

Now it's maintenance-free and nonstick.

Eww... You can and should wash your cast iron pans. Dish soap is no longer made with lye or other harsh chemicals, just use a bit of Dawn and a blue scrub pad (same you'd use on nonstick) and properly clean it, make sure it's very dry afterwards and put a very thin layer of oil. Also don't use paper towels on cast iron unless it's a smooth bottom pan, the modern style cast iron will cause shreds of paper to get embedded in the pan which will burn and get nasty (also paper towels are bleached and that's nasty).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasoning_(cookware)

[2] https://sherylcanter.com/wordpress/2010/01/a-science-based-t...

Use the right tool for the job and cast iron is definitely not the right choice a lot of the time. Unless you exclusively cook meals where heat control is never needed, I don’t see why you’d only use cast iron.

A seasoned pan is fine for eggs. I just use a little butter.

I switched to aluminum/copper core from Teflon and eggs are easy with a little butter, or oil, or spray. And cleaning is easier with some steel wool.

An all-clad pan was $100 but is going strong 15 years later and should last a few hundred more. My non-stick pans were $20 and lasted a year or two.

If you add the eggs with the pan too cool and then heat them up, they will stick.

Which means you need to do a better job at seasoning. Cast iron is used almost exclusively at my place and I use less than 1/2 TSp oil for eggs. Granted my newest skillets are made is 1930s.

What issue are we even talking about?

Because the older techniques weren't close to usable after the casting, the cleanup process made for a smoother pan. Because the newer techniques were much closer to usable after the mold, less cleanup was put into them, resulting in a rougher pan.

A cheap angle grinder is good enough for the relatively soft iron alloy used in cast iron pans. Grind the surface down smooth (don't forget to wear a face mask!), then finish up with increasing grades of sandpaper until you get a nearly mirror surface on the pan. Season the pan a couple of times and you'll be left with one of the most durable, non-stick surfaces for cooking that you can possibly have.

Or you can try carbon steel which is more forgiving than cast iron. Blanc Creatives makes a great carbon steel pan/skillet.

Flea markets often have them for even cheaper. Thrift stores have them but you might pay $50--which is still cheaper than a decent angle grinder.

Do it in a well ventilated area, preferable outside. The fillings get everywhere, include into any vents of any other equipment you might have nearby. My glasses weren't enough to keep the filings out of my eyes. They are fine enough that they won't scratch or cut your eyes, but you will feel like you are having the worst bout of seasonal allergies you've ever had.

I was sneezing rusty boogers for 3 days.

You grind the bottom of the pan smooth. Isn't that obvious? I guess not, apparently. But it seems like it should be.

If i had a cast iron pan I had to flatten, I’d dog it down on my CNC router, set up a 1/4” endmill, whip up some code for 33% overlapping passes in Fusion 360, and take off .005” layers until it was flat.

Something like this: https://www.bunnings.com.au/bosch-blue-250w-random-orbital-s...

Or for a US version: https://www.milwaukeetool.com.au/power-tools/carpentry/sande...

Seems like overkill though. You could probably just hand sand it to be honest.

Tools exist to make jobs easy. There is no virtue in doing hard work for hard works sake. Plus, orbital sanders tend to inflame my carpal tunnel.

This really bugs me. We have a product, designed to be used over heat, which leaks literal poison into your food when it gets "too hot"... WTF is that? What does "too hot" mean and how can you expect anyone to know which of their burner settings (which often have no guidance at all as to temperature beyond gradients between "low", "medium", and "high") will be hot enough to leak poison into the food they feed themselves and their families. Non-stick coating seem like the kind of thing which should be banned at this point until it's proven to be safe under typical conditions. None of the chemicals which have replaced teflon have been proved safe. They just haven't been shown to be dangerous yet, which isn't saying much considering the decades it took to prove the dangers of teflon and the efforts the manufacturers went to hide those dangers from the public they poisoned.

> smart TVs are cheaper than dumb TVs because they're subsidized by ad revenue.

I've never seen that proved anywhere. Costs have gone down over the years, and the amount of ads and data collection have increased but I haven't seen any evidence at all that there's a 1:1 connection between the two. Companies seem to be perfectly happy to charge you the most they can get away with while still collecting your data and pushing ads in your face. By limiting the availability of dumb TVs you don't even get to vote with your wallet on this one. Currently I'm recommending people replace their TVs with computer monitors, but "smart" computer monitors are the new thing and will push out the dumb models too.

And even that comparison is unfair, as with that you're getting fresh ground coffee which is much better. Pod coffees are preground minimum months before you're brewing with them.

Cleanup is fair but it’s on the order of putting your hands in the grounds and throwing them in the trash. I suspect people think machines are easier because they don’t mind mold or scale building in their unclean tank.

It comes with a pressurised filter so you can throw whatever ground coffee you buy in the supermarket and it will make a decent espresso.

If you want to take it to the next level you should buy a non pressurised filter, good fresh coffee in beans and an extra 300 for a good electric grinder.

That's pretty much the cheapest setup I can think of to make a good espresso.

Here's a review: https://coffeeblog.co.uk/delonghi-magnifica-s/

https://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/OffersOfProduct/2416409...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/well/eat/filtered-coffee-...

Well, alright then.

> and when they get too hot

Oh… I dunno, but this seems to be a fairly likely failure mode for a pan.

"too hot" in this context means "higher than smoke points of most oils". Like I said, they have their uses. If you're frying an egg you're likely not heating your pan to the point of smoking, and I'm certainly not going to be searing meats on a non-stick.

Fried eggs were a thing long before before teflon. I dont know what you consider absurd about of oil, some oil is needed, but I would qualify it as "normal"

Teflon pans kill birds unfortunately. Once you live with a bird, you can’t have any hot teflon in the house because it releases toxic fumes. Fine for a human because we’re large animals, smol birds reach lethal levels within minutes.

There’s stories of people turning on an air fryer and their pet bird dropping dead in another room.

Neither are fine for humans. The dosage is still high enough to cause long term health issues. (Mostly cancer and hormone issues.)

It leaches estrogen analogues (sometimes called xenoestrogens), and ~ 100% of people alive today have biologically active levels of those compounds in their blood.

In particular, Teflon brand nonstick coating contains PTFE and PFOAs. This has been settled science for at least 20 years.

Source?

They list "coated food contact materials" as a source of PFOS and PFOA in the abstract.

It requires proper seasoning. Once you got that, egg away!

>Also, claiming that they "seem to be poisonous" without any qualifiers is a little misleading. To my knowledge they're only poisonous during manufacturing (ie. the precursor chemicals) and when they get too hot.

Agreed - they're not poisonous to use, but the manufacturing chemicals used to produce them are, and those chemicals are often dumped into the environment - they're also known as, "forever chemicals", which reek some havoc on well: us.

https://www.ewg.org/what-are-pfas-chemicals

>Why are they only superficially convenient? They seem pretty convenient to me.

The plastic waste they produce still have the inconvenient problem of what to do with them. Like many conveniences, the problem is just offloaded to someone else.

https://money.cnn.com/2015/03/04/news/k-cups-keurig-inventor...

Some feel microplastics in our blood stream is a worthy compromise to easy-to-make coffee.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/24/micropla...

I dunno much about TVs (I've never owned one), but sounds like subscription over ownership which, grumbles over Adobe

>https://money.cnn.com/2015/03/04/news/k-cups-keurig-inventor...

>Some feel microplastics in our blood stream is a worthy compromise to easy-to-make coffee.

If you're in a first world country with proper garbage disposal, those k-cups most certainly aren't contributing to the problem of microplastics. Where I live they basically get landfilled. Kind of hard for that to end up in my veins when they're buried underground.

When do we all stop saying, "not my problem" when it comes to single-use, disposable items like this?

"20 years ago was the best time, second best time is now", kind of scenarios.

No.

Like most things in this life, you get what you pay for.

If you cheap out on "newer pans" then sure, they won't last you because the manufacturer will use cheap manufacturing processes in order to achieve your stingy price point.

If you buy decent pans from reputable manufacturers, they will last you a lot longer.

Watch this documentary, "The Devil We Know" (About the history and toxicity of teflon.

tl;dw - its a cancer causing birth defect, testosterone/endocrine system atomic bmb and there isnt a single person alive today who can be found (according to the doc) who does not have measurable amounts of teflon in their blood.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devil_We_Know

I mean, if Teflon is so toxic, and there isn't a single person alive today who doesn't have Teflon in their blood, then why aren't there tons of documented cases of Teflon poisoning?

Sorry, but I'm not going to watch a 95 minute documentary on a whim. Based on the wikipedia summary, it doesn't seem to contradict what I said, specifically

>regarding allegations of health hazards from perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA, also known as C8), a key ingredient used in manufacturing Teflon

I specifically mentioned in my last comment that they were "poisonous during manufacturing ".

Plastic is made from oil. Do you think there's literally oil in your plastic water bottle?

[1] https://www.healthvermont.gov/sites/default/files/documents/...

[1] https://emergingcontaminants.eu/application/files/9514/5260/...

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41370-018-0099-9

how can anything that produces a worse quality of a productivity enhancing stimulant than you would have using another method ever be truly convenient in comparison to that other method?

basically in any situation when you decrease the quality of anything to such an extent that you use it less and thus get less of the benefits that it gives you it would follow that it would be more convenient that the quality was higher.

For example - condoms, condoms that don't work very well would be inconvenient.

But also coffee, when coffee is of such poor quality that people do not drink it that is inconvenient if you are employed turning coffee into code as the funny t-shirts have it. Hence my humorous reference to productivity enhancing stimulants.

I bought the majority of my cast iron 20 years ago for about $25 and it'll likely outlast me.

No one should be surprised that people will pay more for the exact same thing over time. People want to get as much as they can as quick as they can. If you spend $100 for a cast iron pan now instead of $30 for a Teflon pan, then you have $70 less money to spend on other stuff. The average person doesn't care that over the long run they could spend $1000 on pans instead of a $100 pan that lasts a lifetime.

I did sand it a bit with a palm sander because the Internet told me to, but I'm pretty sure it would have been fine anyway.

It's been years, and I've deliberately seasoned it only once, and I don't think I actually really needed to. Sometimes when it's been used for tomatoes and looks thirsty, I'll put a wipe of oil in and heat it up for a bit.

I don't miss the very expensive Le Creuset wedding present non stick pan that turned out to be as bad as all the rest.

However, also in T[KJ] Maxx are 10 times more truly terrible Teflon pans.

I can put a tiny amount of oil in my cast iron and fry eggs without sticking.

Over time, cooking oils polymerize from heat and form a smooth seal in the microsurfaces of the cast iron, resulting in a natural non stick surface which is resilient and replenish-able.

80% of my stovetop cooking is in a 70 year old cast iron skillet, the rest happens in stainless steel or enameled cast iron.

Nonstick pans contain hormone disrupting chemicals. Just google it and there are numerous resources. Nonstick chemicals are also released into our rivers and waterways and basically impossible to remove (lots of resources for this as well).

>From nonstick pans to food packaging to make-up, hundreds of everyday products are made with PFAS chemicals that have been linked to adverse health effects, including cancer, weakened immunity and low birth weight.

>They are also a persistent pollutant in the environment, with high levels found in many public water systems.

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/national-international/to...

If you don't like cast iron then carbon steel is a similar but easier to maintain alternative. If those don't work, then enameled cast iron (i.e. Le Creuset) works.

Again, is this during manufacture or in the finished product? In my comment I specifically said it was poisonous during manufacture.

>Just google it and there are numerous resources

I checked on wikipedia and I found no mentions of that in the finished product.

It's both/ Read the article I linked above "most people in the U.S. have PFAS in their bloodstream" so these chemicals are toxic in the finished product (which they then digest when using) and during manufacture.

>While contamination of drinking water around military bases and factories gets most of the attention, the EPA says 80 percent of human exposure comes from consumer products in the home.

The "product" in this case being "non-stick pans", or various other consumer products? The wikipedia article seems to suggest the latter.

>they are still produced internationally and are imported into the United States in consumer goods such as carpet, leather and apparel, textiles, paper and packaging, coatings, rubber and plastics

>In 2020, manufacturers and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) announced an agreement to phase out some types of PFAS which are used in food packaging by 2024

>PFAS are also used by major companies of the cosmetics industry in a wide range of cosmetics, including lipstick, eye liner, mascara, foundation, concealer, lip balm, blush, nail polish and other such products

Based on that, I'm inclined to believe that there's a bunch of ways for PFAS to get into people's bloodstreams, but cookware isn't one of them (I did a quick search and they're not mentioned in the article, aside from a reference to a california legislation requiring them to be labeled). That's perfectly consistent with my prior claim that "finished non-stick pans are safe" and your claim that "most people in the U.S. have PFAS in their bloodstream".

You have the burden of proof to prove your claim/belief. I already provided a source that says "80 percent of human exposure comes from consumer products in the home." which you're making the illogical leap that that must not include pans coated in these chemicals that we use to cook on... That seems illogical. Yes there are other sources of PFAs, but you're trying to exclude one of the most obvious sources.

>That's perfectly consistent with my prior claim that "finished non-stick pans are safe"

You have literally cited zero evidence for your claim--so no it's not consistent. You're pulling this out of your ass.

I strongly suggest you do a bit more reading on the subject: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2022/03/07/pfas-guide-ch...

Regardless, I'll keep using my cast iron, carbon steel, and enameled cast iron pans--you can keep eating weird chemicals.

If you really want to talk about "burden of proof" and whether something "seems illogical", I'm going to take the easy way out and point out that PFAS is a set of substances which include PTFE ("teflon") as well as PFOA (used in the manufacture of PTFE). We have been conflating the two, which means many of the sources you provided for PFAS are actually invalid, at least in the context of discussing whether non-stick pans are "poisonous".

Technically the original discussion was about PTFE (ie. the stuff used on pans), not PFAS (which is what your sources reference since your first reply). If anything, you're the one who moved it my subtly moving the discussion to be about PFAS. I suppose it's "moving the goalposts" to bring the discussion back to PTFEs, so I do apologize if you think that me replying to your comments constitutes acceptance of moving the discussion to be about PFAS.

>don't provide any evidence again

Here's my "evidence"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene#Safety

>PTFE is stable and nontoxic at lower temperatures

Because it is absurdly easy to make a pot of coffee, if you want a single cup just adjust the amount of water and coffee.

There is also instant coffee. Which can be better than Keurig.

It's not to say that there is 0 convenience its just barely so and not really worth the added cost and waste. Also if you happen to be the one that has to refill the water or wait on it to heat it's no more convenient than any other option.

Also the coffee sucks.

I use nothing but cast iron,s on a wood-burning stove. Frying eggs is no problem at all and it does not take "an absurd amount of oil", just a light coat of butter or margarine will do the trick assuming the pan is well-seasoned. I make pancakes for 4 people about once a week, also no problem, using a silicone brush to coat the pan in a light coat of molten butter/oil (I often mix these two) and they slide right out. Just clean the hot pan with water and wipe it clean/dry after use, it will work even better the next time you use it.

PTFE-covered pans are only a thing because people have been told fat is bad. The truth is fat is not bad, just like other foods are not bad per definition. What is bad is too much fat, just like too much carbohydrates or too much salt or... etcetera. Knowing that fat is actually a good ingredient there is no reason to use those flimsy disposable aluminium pans covered in PTFE.

It’s a bit difficult to exactly measure the effects of PFAS and how much of it makes it poisonous—when a study sought a control group of people without any in their blood for a study, they were not able to find a single living person on this planet that fits the definition anymore—but even with what we know the author is likely significantly understating that particular point[0].

Even if we ignore the poison released into the environment during manufacturing, I am yet to see a used Teflon pan that has no scratches (and that’s just the ones visible with naked eye). Combine with the fact that non-Teflon pans are becoming nearly impossible to find in many retail stores, and it becomes somewhat concerning.

[0] https://youtu.be/9W74aeuqsiU?t=560

You need to learn how to season and care for cast iron. It doesn't take an absurd amount of oil, and the egg should slide out with ease.

So they need more work and skill than other pans. In other words: they are in fact less convenient.

Cast iron also has multiple issues when used with induction ranges, which are by far the most efficient/environmental cookers.

I treat mine no differently than any other pan and do all of the things that I do to any other frying pan. I wash it with soap and the scratchy side of the sponge, I store it with no oil, I cook acidic sauces, I let it soak in the sink, etc...

The seasoning is fine, once I accidentally left it on the burner and it burnt off the seasoning (something that would have destroyed any teflon pan). I just used a little extra oil the next few times.

I haven't used it extensively with an induction burner, but I don't have any complaints....

Cleaning cast iron is easier than cleaning teflon or stainless. However, you'll want something to scrape it with, and a stanless steel pot scrubber.

We use cast iron on our induction range with no problems. The only issues I've heard of involve scratching. The new models don't seem to have that issue (and cast is no scratchier than stainless, etc).

Cast iron is best if it's the workhorse. Not using it regularly degrades the seasoning.

This is the first I’m hearing of this. My understanding is that pans only need to be magnetic to work with induction, in which case cast iron are prime candidates for induction.

Though my cast iron wok heats properly, for almost the same reason!

The real issue is the lack of security in these devices. Updates are rare enough but for something that bridges your home network with the internet this is an agregious failing.

This doesn't even touch on the repairability issues inherent in modern TV design.

This sounds like a non-issue, in a "broken escalators become stairs" kind of way. If your smart TV doesn't work because it hasn't received software updates for years, and the youtube/netflix app no longer works anymore, can't you just... use it as a dumb TV?

>This doesn't even touch on the repairability issues inherent in modern TV design.

What "repairability issues"? TVs hasn't been repariable for decades now.

You’d be surprised. I have a Lodge cast iron pan I fry eggs in regularly. A tablespoon of butter is enough for three eggs, and only occasionally is there a spot or two that sticks.

The trick is heat. High heat causes them to unstick fairly quickly, to the point where I can typically just shake the pan to release them in their entirety.

That said I haven’t tried to scramble eggs in cast iron. I suspect this would not work nearly as well.

Until a software update on your media player means you need a display with a different DRM. No matter what display you use, the media transfer method to that display (DVD/VGA/HDMI/Wifi etc) will probably be obsolete before the display itself goes dark.

Check out the Misen ones, their marketing video is literally all about an egg slipping around it like water.

You have to season it, but it's easy to do. Number one mistake most people make is seasoning with too much oil.

You may want to avoid vegetables that lose a lot of water as that will wear your non-stickiness faster.

Nothing than rubbing some oil and putting in the oven won't solve.

It’s so easy to just say “oh that’s to extract money from you” when you don’t know…

Because they're a PITA to clean compared to a regular coffee maker.