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Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by danielrpa on Sunday January 23, 2022 @06:54AM (#30045518)
Amazing!

"Zeloof says he doesn’t know for sure what he wants to do after graduating this spring" - I hope we don't hear later that he went to work for FAANG. One the saddest things about Big Tech is how they take young talent away from innovative, potentially competing enterprises and into busy work internal projects just because they can.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by TrackerFF on Sunday January 23, 2022 @07:14AM (#30045595)
It's hard to compete with FAANG, Finance, and Consulting. Unfortunately, that's where a lot of people end up.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by xvector on Sunday January 23, 2022 @07:22AM (#30045634)
TC isn't everything. I'm pulling truly bonkers TC at 26, and yet I feel a deep void inside me.

I recently realized that this void is because I am not living by my ideals/purpose. I know what I want to do in life, I know how I want to contribute to the story of humanity, and yet I am letting my greed overrule me and force me into a different path. Essentially, I am betraying myself, and this causes that feeling of unfulfillment/void.

I suspect I am not the only FAANG/unicorn/quant engineer that feels this way. Don't get me wrong, I greatly enjoy the day to day technical work I do. But my day job does not help me work towards what I have defined as my existential purpose.

Recently I decided I will change this, whether through volunteering or a new job (even if it might pay less.) I'm more excited than I have been in months. I will die happy if I can positively impact humanity towards the direction I hope for it to go towards.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by stackbutterflow on Sunday January 23, 2022 @07:40AM (#30045733)
Trust me it's not better on the other side. Followed my dreams and I'll forever be financially decades behind you (i.e I'll never catch up) unless I win the lottery or something. I'm 100% sure if I were in your shoes I too would feel exactly as you do. The lesson here is to be content with what we have and what we've done. At least now you have the financial freedom to spend the rest of your life more or less as you see fit.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by bbarnett on Sunday January 23, 2022 @08:11AM (#30045891)
This.

For whatever reason (personality, genes, whatever), I do not seem to be one who gets caught up in the envy of greener grass.

https://writingexplained.org/idiom-dictionary/grass-is-alway...

I've spent a large part of my life as a high end specialist, consulting, and thus, have had incredibly encompassing exposure to a huge variety of companies.

Whether non-profits, government departments, or corps, it's humans which cause the often ineffectual result, of our loving attempts to being order, and stability to our labourious output.

People are the same everywhere, and thus, so your endeavours will be.

The grass is not greener on the other side.

So what I would say is:

* if you strike out on your own, you can at least move on past things which bore you

* you need true financial independence to achieve this, to become a relaxed garage tinkerer of tech

* right now, we are at a moment of golden opportunity. The markets are down. This is where you buy in. The returns are buying in these times, not in time of feast.

So... maybe this is a good time to reassess. Invest. And plan to retire once you profit?

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by throwaway2333 on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:17AM (#30047319)
A long time ago, I had the mindset that I really didn't care about money: I wanted to live my "ideal" life, no matter what. So I frittered away my early twenties being a bum, trying to materialize what I felt was the "dream."

Then I got kicked out of my home and had to work back-breaking jobs, commute 2-4 hours either walking or biking, and at the end of the day barely earn enough money to make any progress (I was lucky that a family member let me sleep in their house, otherwise I would've been living paycheck to paycheck).

During that time I felt like my mind forced me to "withdraw inside myself," so my spirit wouldn't be completely broken. It had seemed that all of my thoughts, feelings, and emotions had been stripped away from me, and the only things left were those needed to "survive."

A little bit later I was lucky enough to get my first software job, making a very good salary, and lift myself out of poverty (and start "financially progressing"); but even though my life had been the best it ever was, I never regained the feelings that I lost.

I think what I lost was my naive worldview: one that was modeled by two decades worth of living upper middle class; where I survived by virtue of my birth, and not because I personally did anything -- detached from reality.

It was a very self-centered existence. I was only concerned about my own pleasure, and escaping from any displeasure ("fat FIRE" was an escape from the perceived displeasure of having to work, and not being able to partake in idle leisure). Other than this, I had no values, nor real "ideals" (but I did have an "ideal" life I wanted to build).

I think that's where my early "dreams" came from: a self-centered pursuit of personal gain and maximization of pleasure. I didn't really care about anything or anyone, nor was my existence driven by deeply-ingrained values that could serve as a bottomless well of direction and energy. I was simply living an animalistic life.

Being thrust into the "real world" destroyed all these notions; or rather, living in reality forced me to restrain myself: my emotions had no structure, and so I was fluttering about to wherever they took me. Having to "box" them in to do something useful and purposeful finally wrangled them in, and "molded" my personality to something other than "do the things I like, and get away from the things I don't like."

I would later have to rebuild my worldview and wrestle with the void in my soul that could no longer be filled with material distractions (a life-long process).

During this process, I realized putting financial considerations as my number one priority would not lead me to anywhere fulfilled (neither would idle retirement). The only thought that rang "true" at the time was that I needed to cultivate values, and those would dictate my purpose.

It's a never-ending process. And it always keeps me busy, but unlike focusing on material things, the fulfillment and sense of goodness I feel is not transient -- it lasts, and has built up through the years.

This is how I went from trying to live an ideal life, to one where I live by ideals.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by wnolens on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:48AM (#30047657)
I know this is a throwaway, but I would like to hear more. Your writing reflects my own life, but I'm in the wrestling part.

Care to expand on this process of cultivating values, the wrestling with the void, where the sense of goodness comes from..

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by hawk_ on Sunday January 23, 2022 @07:39AM (#30045719)
It's great to be able to pull "bonkers TC" and not feel fulfilled than to not pull that TC and still feel a void.

"All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind".

And even finding quality volunteering opportinities has been difficult. There's all kind of parasitic behaviour when free money or labor is on offer.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by strikelaserclaw on Sunday January 23, 2022 @10:30AM (#30046843)
Don't listen to the negativity, Software Engineers are paid handsomely, if you find that your dream path isn't working out you can always return to highly paid work and make up pretty fast.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by wnolens on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:42AM (#30047591)
Sounds like me at 26. I finally walked away from it at 28.

Your window to return to bonkers tech money is wide so you can afford to go away from it a while. But after you do, you probably won't want to return. That's fine! Just sock away enough that you don't feel you have to, otherwise it'll feel like reinserting yourself in the matrix and it SUCKS.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by bjelkeman-again on Sunday January 23, 2022 @08:30AM (#30045998)
Working on something that feels like it makes a difference can be very rewarding. But my experience is that if it really makes a difference (how do you measure that is probably a book by itself), it is never easy.

For the last 15 years I have worked on things that I felt needed doing. Others agreed. Even though our teams achieve something worthwhile it can often feel deeply frustrating. The challenges of financing something new, that doesn’t fit the box of how it is normally done, at some useful scale, is hard. I don’t want to do anything else, but sometimes it is very frustrating.

In the end, I think there is so much one can work on that really makes a difference in “the story of humanity” as you call it, that there really is no need to take a job that goes against ideals you may hold. Healthcare, energy systems, data for better governance, food tech, Ed tech, the list goes on. There will be something interesting to work on I am certain.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by CoastalCoder on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:17AM (#30047324)
I think Maslow's hierarchy of needs [0] approximately explains what you're experiencing.

This is also covered in the Book of Eccliastes [1]. IMHO it's a good meditation on the issue regardless of one's views on Abrahamic religions.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesiastes

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by hidden-spyder on Sunday January 23, 2022 @07:49AM (#30045779)
What is TC?
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by RicoElectrico on Sunday January 23, 2022 @07:56AM (#30045814)
Total compensation, that is including bonuses, benefits and various forms of stock.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by rzzzt on Sunday January 23, 2022 @07:52AM (#30045795)
Was about to ask the same thing. There are ~280 resolutions to that initialism on a random website that I've found, none of which are easily applicable to the context.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by goldenkey on Sunday January 23, 2022 @07:59AM (#30045832)
One of the things I despise about these jobs is the overuse of initialisms and acronyms. It's literally gatekeeping even if done subconsciously. It also fucks with new hires quite a lot because they have no idea what AC, SOP, PR, NPS, etc mean
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by selimthegrim on Sunday January 23, 2022 @08:22AM (#30045946)
Total Comp here, but in the subcontinent it also stands for something vulgar, so clarification or avoiding it is probably best.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by hiptobecubic on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:17AM (#30047322)
Ironically, I don't know what "the subcontinent" refers to. Gatekeeping and in-speak happens naturally in every context.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by pedrosorio on Sunday January 23, 2022 @04:17PM (#30050518)
That one is much easier to Google though, as the expression is really only used to refer to one thing (the Indian subcontinent)
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by Kaos-Industries on Friday January 28, 2022 @02:05PM (#30118941)
No idea what you could be referring to. I think maybe you're thinking of BC or MC?
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by jihadjihad on Sunday January 23, 2022 @07:57AM (#30045822)
Total Compensation, meaning it includes non-salary components such as shares of stock/options, other benefits, etc.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by lelanthran on Sunday January 23, 2022 @07:57AM (#30045821)
Total Cost
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by moneywoes on Sunday January 23, 2022 @08:06PM (#30052421)
Is there any reason you can't do both?
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by osrec on Sunday January 23, 2022 @07:19AM (#30045618)
Comfortable money + marketing hype keep it that way unfortunately.

If governments really wanted to prioritise innovation, they should consider giving a banker's salary to a research scientist.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by mysterydip on Sunday January 23, 2022 @08:12AM (#30045896)
At least in the US, they're generally limited to salaries on the "general schedule", and management gets paid more than technical people, because "it wouldn't be fair" to have subordinates that make more than you. So there's a built-in glass ceiling for tech careers. https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries...
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by halpert on Sunday January 23, 2022 @09:34AM (#30046395)
Maybe “it’s not fair to have subordinates earn more” was the justification given to you, but businesses rarely make decisions based on what’s fair. Engineers are valuable, but individual engineers are largely replaceable. Being able to coordinate a large group successfully also has a lot of value.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by ipaddr on Sunday January 23, 2022 @10:12AM (#30046683)
Let's be honest. Engineer managers are largely replacable and more easily than individual engineers. The pool is larger and can accept more manager unrelated experience. There is more to this.

As the person senior leadership communicates with this person is seen as more important than they are. Senior leadership wants to maintain a leveling system to separate groups of people. It's a hedge a flat organization which makes senior leadership less important.

You could swap out this person with another without losing speed but it doesn't work as well with an engineer.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by halpert on Sunday January 23, 2022 @10:26AM (#30046805)
Then why don’t companies adopt a flatter structure with higher compensated engineers? The goal of a company is to make money after all. If management could be removed and top engineers retained with higher salaries, then a company would surely have an advantage in the marketplace. Since this doesn’t happen, there must be more to the picture than people in upper management simply clinging to their jobs. If removing middle management were so obvious a change to make, then shareholders would demand it.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by rixed on Monday January 24, 2022 @02:59AM (#30054689)
> Then why don’t companies adopt a flatter structure with higher compensated engineers? The goal of a company is to make money after all.

Let's not forget that companies aren't real sentient beings, do not really take decisions and do not really have their own interest. They are legal fictions. Trying to understand the behavior of a company based on its self interest can therefore be misleading.

Why do bureaucracies develop? Why is Google launching yet another chat app? Why are so many companies disrupted by new techs instead of adapting? All this is against their interest after all.

Companies are ultimately led and controlled by many individuals, in pursuit of their own individual interest (mostly). Some groups of individuals within a company have more control than others, and will consequently bend the company toward what's in their own interest.

I'm not versed into sociology of organisations, but from a cursory look at some big corp internals it seems to me that this easily explains the frequent growth in numbers and importance of the coterie with the more agency over hiring, regardless of whether it's good or bad for the company as a whole, ie the growth of middle management cancer.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by hiptobecubic on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:14AM (#30047287)
I would be careful with the "if they do it it must be sensible" reasoning. There are a lot of reasons that modeling firms using homo-economicus and perfect markets doesn't pan out.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by halpert on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:19PM (#30048006)
To me, this is a case to apply Occam’s razor. What is more likely, that this decades old, Dilbertesque criticism of management is true, yet somehow eluded the purview of shareholders? Or that businesses are being run in a relatively efficient manner given the current human condition?
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by jjoonathan on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:37PM (#30048226)
Rules for Rulers is real.

It's not that management is dumb, it's that every layer of management is self-interested. Every hierarchy has to contend with principal agent problems. Organizations can do a better or worse job of it, but the incentives are always there and they lead to predictable inefficiencies which are frequently observed. Everyone knows this, but unless you know how to get someone to manage without self-interest, you aren't in a position to solve the problem. Nobody is. That's why it lingers.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by halpert on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:44PM (#30048309)
Is self-interested management really an inefficiency if it’s unavoidable? You don’t get to run a company in a vacuum. You have to run it within the bounds of human behavior. Saying that “if only all humans acted in some way against their nature, then the system would be more efficient” isn’t an effective management strategy.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by jjoonathan on Sunday January 23, 2022 @01:38PM (#30048943)
You were arguing that RfR / Dilbert coludn't be true because if it were, it would have been optimized away. I argued that no, just because it happens and is broadly understood doesn't mean that it can be optimized away.

You can play semantic games about whether or not it should be called inefficiency -- I don't really care what you call it -- but the RfR / Dilbert dynamic is very real and very prevalent.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by plandis on Sunday January 23, 2022 @05:04PM (#30050971)
Just because something is good for shareholders doesn’t mean it’s good for non-management employees or society at large.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by halpert on Sunday January 23, 2022 @05:26PM (#30051170)
I never claimed it was. I was replying to a discussion on worker efficiency.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by ipaddr on Sunday January 23, 2022 @02:46PM (#30049744)
Many start out flat and as they grow they need to introduce middle management.

Middle management becomes necessary.

But the question is around pay. Should they always make more because they sit higher in the org chart?

I would suggest they make more because of power structures not utility or because they are not as easy to replace.

Because of first class shares, senior leadership shares percentages shareholders with a vote are often the people in power. Common shareholders don't hold much power.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by RugnirViking on Sunday January 23, 2022 @01:46PM (#30049024)
this kind of reasoning simply does not follow in the real world. There are many, many cases of some companies out competing others. Why? if they were all rational actors none would have any advantage over the other.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by halpert on Monday January 24, 2022 @12:38PM (#30060988)
I’m not claiming management structure is the only factor in whether or not a business is competitive. It’s just a factor, and business usually try to optimize the factors under their control to be the most competitive. Of course, there are many factors outside of the businesses control as well.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by wowokay on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:07AM (#30047221)
Ironically they see engineers as replaceable and view every member of leadership as a Jeff Bezos level unique business edge. I’m all honesty I have just always viewed managements role as a different skill set, one that has successfully thrived longer then the IT industry has even existed. Even while we as engineers tend to feel they are replaceable I think we don’t see the value in the work they do to ensure we get funding, resources, and leadership support.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by resueman on Sunday January 23, 2022 @02:02PM (#30049223)
I hate to say it, but I can imagine that a group of engineres with a manager nipping at the heels can be much more valuable in total to a company than a group of engineers left to their own devices. Some may be great at being independently productive but most probably are not.

Of course some random idiot nagging the engineers won't be worth much, they need to be experts at the specific business and domain to bring value in this situation. Which also makes them harder to replace.

Certainly, companies with engineers who are capable and independet problem-solvers, and who are experts at the company's needs and the domain it operates in, are the most valuable. These are not uncommon either. But a fast-growing company in a fast-growing industry has zero chance of solely hiring such people. They need to widen their net to people that require managing.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by ipaddr on Sunday January 23, 2022 @02:33PM (#30049598)
The project manager has the nudging role and the best insight on deliveriables. A manager usually manages other administration aspects and inspirational at times.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by jjoonathan on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:27AM (#30047430)
The Rules for Rulers theory vs the Leveraged Value Creation theory.

Naturally, reality is a bit of both, but people on top push LVC hard while they never mention RfR. A good leader earns their salary multiples over, but many poor leaders rake in the dough just from RfR.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by whimsicalism on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:23PM (#30048054)
Think it has a lot more to do with proximity to those controlling the purse-strings.

Intra-firm compensation is not nearly as "rational" as you are making it out to be.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by halpert on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:30PM (#30048140)
Is it really proximity to the purse string? Because even large, profitable founder-led tech companies, where founders have full control and motive to run the company efficiently, adopt middle management. And what evidence is there that middle management is unnecessary? The only evidence presented is theoretical critiques from engineers who feel they stand to gain from the removal of management.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by lotsofpulp on Sunday January 23, 2022 @08:35AM (#30046025)
“They” (political leaders) choose to limit salaries, and if a problem is urgent enough, they can somehow find a way pay more. It is just politics. Paying more today increases cash spend today, and that looks bad for them come election time.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by sseagull on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:33AM (#30047505)
The annual budget of the entire NSF is $8.28B. The NIH is $42B

Google's net profit was $40B in 2020. Apple's was $94.6B in 2021. (all according to wikipedia).

Edit: The above is net income, so AFTER paying all the exorbitant salaries.

Apple alone makes enough money that it could fund pretty much all current publicly-funded science happening in the US at the current rate. That is a ridiculous amount of money, and publicly-funded science just cannot compete at that level.

(Currently on publicly-funded grants. Underpaid relative to what I could make elsewhere, but happy to be contributing to the greater good rather than helping some advertising company).

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by amoorthy on Sunday January 23, 2022 @02:54PM (#30049828)
I'm torn on this. No doubt money is important but how much is needed? I've been thinking about this for a while [1] and I think more important to drive innovation is to change our culture to admire people who dedicate themselves to solving big problems over a long period of time. And a close second would be a culture that prizes modesty and eschews material wealth.

I realize this may be a pipe-dream but it feels like a better long-term strategy than "pay researchers more than FAANG".

[1] https://www.curiousjuice.com/blog-0/bid/89407/How-much-salar...

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by osrec on Sunday January 23, 2022 @08:12PM (#30052469)
If you want to stop the brain drain from more worthwhile areas to less worthwhile areas, you need to at least pay better starting salaries in the more worthwhile fields.

Otherwise, you'll end up with potential Einsteins playing with spreadsheets in investment banks rather than discovering relativity, simply because they wanted a bit of disposable income.

Stupid, yes, but that's the situation we're in.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by bbarnett on Sunday January 23, 2022 @07:56AM (#30045818)
Governments do, if they work on bombs. Or spying. Or on figuring out the other guy's bombs.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by vostok on Sunday January 23, 2022 @08:57AM (#30046152)
Do you have a source for this? Spying sounds like a pretty interesting job if you can make something similar to FANG.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by bbarnett on Sunday January 23, 2022 @09:12AM (#30046257)
Algo coders, predictive analysis of publicly available data, large societal trends prediction, using social media data to detect malign intent prior to action, analyzing the same to look for foreign activity, hacking foreign infrastructure, etc etc, CIA/NSA and other agencies hire these types right from University typically.

They also fund startups which may be used for national interests and so on.

Much of the time, they contact you, not the other way around.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by reasonabl_human on Sunday January 23, 2022 @10:33AM (#30046871)
Source?

Lived and worked in D.C. and have a TS/SCI, sat for FSP…. The IC doesn’t pay even close to big tech rates. There is also no mystery around someone contacting you, just apply to the NSA / CIA / etc. if those paths pique your interest.

Startups working on IC-relevant tech getting funding via non-traditional means is absolutely true but not guaranteed.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by TigeriusKirk on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:30AM (#30047471)
I looked at NSA/CIA when I was graduating college and the compensation was notably below market and with very rigid structures. I was given to understand a common path was to put in some time at the actual agencies and then go over to a contractor where you could make good money.

That was 30 years ago, though. Could be completely different now.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by rdtwo on Sunday January 23, 2022 @01:05PM (#30048526)
Same deal when I graduated. They told me there was no big paycheck and no glory and I just noped out mid interview.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by tigerlily on Sunday January 23, 2022 @09:45AM (#30046470)
There's that fantasy crystal ball company...
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by jjoonathan on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:21AM (#30047368)
Then why are the NSA and NRO postings always so uncompetitive? DoE research postings are even worse.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by nicoburns on Sunday January 23, 2022 @09:55AM (#30046542)
Yes, and that's why we should be taxing the hell out of these companies. It's not just about raising revenue. It's about allowing other companies to compete with them.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by yarky on Sunday January 23, 2022 @10:25AM (#30046797)
What's the logic here? Do you somehow think that taxes will encourage innovation ?

Anybody can compete, but apparently most of us choose not to. Who forces a young talent to settle for a job instead of taking the risk to innovate ? Maybe risk-taking for innovation is what could be the encouraged through taxation.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by ChuckNorris89 on Sunday January 23, 2022 @10:43AM (#30046972)
>Do you somehow think that taxes will encourage innovation ?

That's what some EU members think. Ask us how that's going :)

That's why most of the big and wealthy companies hare are around 100 years old or more, vs about 30 years old in the US.

Here in Austria you can get various government and EU grants for your startup and tax waivers on social security, and if by some miracle, you don't crash and burn like 95% of startups and manage to produce a semi-profitable company in the end, then you have to pay to the government retroactively all the social security contributions and taxes that have been previously waived over the past years, which is the final nail in the coffin for most companies here never growing or scaling beyond a couple of guys from uni in an apartment kind of company.

Therefore most of the innovation happens nearly exclusively within academia, as "outside" it's a pretty hostile tax environment that mostly favors those 100 year old companies that already have solid revenue streams.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by wowokay on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:03AM (#30047170)
I must be misunderstanding your comment. You are saying that younger companies in the US are becoming more wealthy and innovating more or at the same level as a few entrench EU companies that have successfully stifled the EU market ensuring they never lose there market share or have a need to innovate to complete in a free market, is that correct?
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by Dracophoenix on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:25AM (#30047416)
He's saying that the various EU governments has stifled startups by offering "subsidies" (that operate more like loans) only to demand repayment for them at rate much faster than these startups are capable of building value/marketability/profit, resulting in many of them being DOA or remain limited in size until they are swallowed up by a bigger company.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by nicoburns on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:32PM (#30048163)
> Do you somehow think that taxes will encourage innovation ?

I think that taxing large companies more than small ones might. The bedrock of capitalism is competition, and that is significantly stifled if big players with large amounts of capital can simply buy out anything innovative.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by fartcannon on Sunday January 23, 2022 @10:52AM (#30047054)
The money being required to live a normal life is the problem. A Star Trek style cashless society would allow people to live their life as they see fit, and would undoubtedly unlock a huge jump in human ingenuity.

But I don't think we are evolved enough to deal yet. We'd just end up in a communist prison life or something as people selfishly try to get more for themselves. Roddenberry thought an event like finding extraterrestrial life would be the push humans need, but I'm not so sure anymore.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by hiptobecubic on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:11AM (#30047258)
One thing I never understood is that star fleet and the federation are somehow post-scarcity utopias, but you still have "gold-plated latinum" driving a huge underground criminal counter-culture. What's the point? The ferenghi should be having a cultural existential crisis, but instead they are happy just charging people for drinks that can be replicated freely.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by grogenaut on Sunday January 23, 2022 @01:25PM (#30048785)
my understanding is that the space the ferrengi operate in doesnt operate much with federation space. ds9 is in deep space. and you cant make gold pressed latinum in a replicator. so it is a good trade item for working on a frontier and as a currency as the federation cant just print it.

but dont quote me.

its also a plot device to let them talk about economics.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by emteycz on Sunday January 23, 2022 @01:58PM (#30049169)
I don't remember gold-plated latinum being used within the Federation itself, all their worlds were blissful utopias. DS9 was outside the Federation, and at a place and time where the major civilizations were at war for decades. And even in DS9, the Starfleet officers never had any interest whatsoever in latinum.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by at_compile_time on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:08PM (#30047867)
You don't understand because it doesn't make sense. It's just fun sci-fi storytelling.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by narrator on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:54PM (#30048424)
The reason big companies have a huge advantage in the U.S is they get access to the jet stream of public market money that goes through highly regulated employee pensions and 401ks to Vanguard and Blackrock and then to the companies in public stock market indexes. The companies that form the stock market indexes get that money for very very cheap relative to small companies who have to find investors one by one or, outside of venture backed tech, take loans at high interest rates.

If someone can run a profitable business when money is hard to come by as a non-public company, it makes sense for a public company to buy them because they can get money much more easily and expand the smaller company's operations and make an even bigger profit. They can even run the company poorly and still make money because their money is cheaper.

Essentially, it's an information and regulation problem.

The best thing yet invented, taxwise, to counteract this advantage that big businesses have in attracting money is Qualified Small Business Stock (QSBS)[1]. It' a great tax incentive program because it massively rewards people for investing in startups. It is highly targeted to encourage that and not be a general loophole.

[1]https://www.sba.gov/blog/qualified-small-business-stock-what...

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by vasili111 on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:19AM (#30047340)
That means that country that will do that will not have competitive big tech companies and other countries will have.

Also, big companies are needed because there are technologies that cannot be produced by small companies. I do not understand recent tendency to make them look bad. Big companies are good for country and economy. Punishing companies for success is harmful for the progress.

I think letting market decide is better choice. Overregulation leads to decrease in competition and production.

Also, what is bad in it of big companies need to compete for talents? This competition leads for better opportunities and bigger salaries. I think it is good that person has a freedom of choice were to go.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by blululu on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:44AM (#30047625)
This is not a recent trend. America has had a big political issue over large industry since day one. The Jeffersonian vision of a nation of yeoman farmers (who maybe owned slaves) vs. an industrial economy built on science and technology. This shows up in debates over railroads (anti-trust laws start here). It leads to the financing of canals, and cars (more democratic forms of transportation). It leads to subsidies for single family homes vs multi family living. It leads to the constant struggle to break up AT&T and liquidate telecom equipment manufacturing (lucent had other problems). And yeah it leads to a desire to split up large companies that make good money for the country.

Of course a lot of processes also scale with size. With a decent welfare system this greater efficiency could also be tapped to achieve widespread prosperity.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by whimsicalism on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:22PM (#30048039)
I agree that central distinction between industrial economy vs. yeoman is a big cultural clash in the US.

I don't see what makes cars more "democratic" or anti-trust as firmly on the "yeoman" side of things.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by blululu on Sunday January 23, 2022 @01:41PM (#30048975)
A car is privately owned and oriented toward a small scale family/individual. It can go from anywhere to anywhere at anytime (assuming roads). Unlike a railroad which achieves much greater efficiency but requires more fixed schedules and routes. Everyone must move to the same place at the same time together. A lot of this is imagined but people really did buy into this (same with canals), and given the 200 year distrust of railroads, that gave a lot of political fodder to break up urban rail lines and make cities more car based.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by whimsicalism on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:30PM (#30048135)
> I think letting market decide is better choice. Overregulation leads to decrease in competition and production.

Not intrinsically, obviously, as anti-trust clearly shows. I am not anti-big intrinsically, for many of the reasons identified.

But I do think there are obvious downsides to be guarded against. If anything, as technology improves, technological barriers to entry should decrease and less big companies will be needed to work on certain advanced technologies.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by Fissionary on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:01AM (#30047159)
The idea of imposing punitive taxes on some companies, to level the playing field for everyone else, reminds me of Kurt Vonnegut's "Harrison Bergeron". It wouldn't have the desired effect anyway, since employee salaries are tax-deductible.

A better way to promote innovation might be through cultivating a spirit of entrepreneurship in young people, supporting startup accelerators, and handing out grants to promising candidates like the one in the article.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by supportlocal4h on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:44AM (#30047613)
I heard a story at a recent robotics tournament about a team that had competed together all the way from 7th grade through 12th grade. As the story went, the teammates were hired en masse by a certain high profile company who agreed to pay for all their college, etc, etc.

I thought it was an interesting story as I heard it repeated among the students at the tournament. Many of the teams have sponsors who donate $1000s so the schools/clubs can buy parts, etc. They are trying to encourage interest in STEM. But if the story is true, one company could spend $1000000 and inspire 1000s of students, generating lottery psychology. Of course, one person could just make up such a story for $0 and achieve the same thing. But it amuses me to think of some altruistic billionaire having a little fun and doing such a thing.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by nicoburns on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:37PM (#30048227)
> A better way to promote innovation might be through cultivating a spirit of entrepreneurship in young people, supporting startup accelerators, and handing out grants to promising candidates like the one in the article.

Taxing large corporations seems like it would be an excellent way in which to fund such grants.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by kortex on Sunday January 23, 2022 @10:48AM (#30047026)
I'm quite pro-taxing-corporations, but I don't see the connection. How is taxing certain tech companies more going to make the field more competitive? IMHO anti-trust laws are the tools need here. I don't see how you could target just the FAANG-esque companies with higher taxes without collateral impact to the very competitors you want to get more market share.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by whimsicalism on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:21PM (#30048019)
Why should I, as a young person, support a policy intentionally punishing companies for competing over my labor power just to make it so I have to work for petit-bourgeois small tech companies that can't pay as much?
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by brewdad on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:33PM (#30048178)
Because that tax revenue has to come from somewhere. If it doesn't come from the corporations or the 1%, guess who gets the bill?

The 2-20%. Especially those who are W2 employees and have limited options for offsetting their taxable income.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by relaxing on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:36PM (#30048217)
Because they’re no longer competing. They wield monopoly power that is anticompetitive, and it’s bad for everything else you value. (Assuming you value more than streaming media, two retailers, and ads.)
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by whimsicalism on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:54PM (#30048422)
They have monopoly power in the tech labor market? How so?
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by relaxing on Sunday January 23, 2022 @01:07PM (#30048560)
Isn’t the collective wisdom around here that there’s no competing with FAANG when it comes to job offers?

And we know they’ve engaged in anticompetitive behavior among themselves when it comes to recruiting. I would be unsurprised to find out it still takes place.

But I think the point was monopoly power from their core products is the real issue, and that enables the astronomical salaries.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by resueman on Sunday January 23, 2022 @02:50PM (#30049795)
The point of anticompetitve behavior in the hiring market is to be able to pay less to get people.

The fact that they pay the highest prices for people means they sure suck at it.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by relaxing on Sunday January 23, 2022 @07:16PM (#30052123)
You don’t know the highest possible price.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by nicoburns on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:36PM (#30048209)
Perhaps because you might want to live in a society where our economic activity is directed at activities which actually promote our collective wealth and wellbeing.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by HeyLaughingBoy on Monday January 24, 2022 @11:36AM (#30059960)
So... you let them grow big, then throw on the hobbles to get them poorer?
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by gumby on Sunday January 23, 2022 @02:09PM (#30049304)
There are plenty of people who prefer a different environment and culture from what those big companies have. Once the pay reaches level X ( different for each person) other factors become more important.

Who knows what this person wants? He probably doesn’t either.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by mgraczyk on Sunday January 23, 2022 @03:10PM (#30049979)
Idk as somebody who has worked at both Facebook and Google, the chip design going on at these companies is at the top end in innovation. Apple is even better. Certainly wouldn't be a bad outcome for civilization.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by beckman466 on Sunday January 23, 2022 @08:33AM (#30046011)
> I hope we don't hear later that he went to work for FAANG. One the saddest things about Big Tech is how they take young talent away from innovative, potentially competing enterprises and into busy work internal projects just because they can.

yes i hope Zeloof (or someone else young, enthusiastic and social media adept like him) turns into the Marcin Jakubowski [1] or Dave Hakkens [2] of semi-conductors.

in this exciting still-early open source digital paradigm, a new type of leadership is required with a massive focus on horizontal knowledge production and transmission, a focus on a multitude of pedagogical styles, as well as a deep foundational belief in the abilities of our fellow humans (since it's easy and common to either believe we are 1) over-special or 2) dumb, as our schools are stuck in this reward/punishment paradigm which both 1) over-estimates a small number of students' skills because of advantages they gained outside of school (were you born with wealthy parents/community who had time and money to encourage/support you), or 2) which forces you into straightjacketed, (pedagogically) un-diverse, un-tailored learning journeys that make you take steps too quickly (a way to filter out as many working class people as possible except for a select few, by design)).

[1] Marcin Jakubowski: Open-sourced blueprints for civilization: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GEMkvT0DEk

[2] Precious Plastic Universe: a big bang for plastic recycling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os7dREQ00l4

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by pyb on Sunday January 23, 2022 @09:24AM (#30046331)
There is a currently a window of opportunity to hire Sam before FAANG does.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by moffkalast on Sunday January 23, 2022 @02:14PM (#30049352)
When it comes down to it I doubt most "innovative, potentially competing enterprises" can offer even close to a competitive salary.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by nobodyandproud on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:04PM (#30047822)
If he sets up a franchise business to open-up custom chip hardware manufacturing; that would be amazing.

The US military alone I feel needs this sort of redundancy; not to mention the freedom we need from closed-source hardware.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by fnord77 on Sunday January 23, 2022 @09:43AM (#30046452)
> innovative, potentially competing enterprises

I feel like there hasn't been many of these recently. And the few that have been around get massive financing rounds that dilute options into nothing and never go ipo

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by hiptobecubic on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:19AM (#30047349)
Are you saying that Google, Facebook, etc have not been innovating over the last years? What does the landscape look like if you remove these companies' contributions from the public sphere?
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by wyre on Sunday January 23, 2022 @01:14PM (#30048649)
What innovations have Google and Facebook had over the past few years? As far as I’m concerned Facebook could disappear overnight and the world would be a much better place.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by hiptobecubic on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @06:51PM (#30079822)
Those are different concerns. Maybe you don't like what they do with their innovations, but they are bankrolling and directing quite a lot of sota research.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by rdtwo on Sunday January 23, 2022 @01:06PM (#30048544)
Google is innovating to make your searches worse but more profitable…
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by gaws on Monday January 24, 2022 @10:20PM (#30067502)
> I hope we don't hear later that he went to work for FAANG.

Unfortunately, that's precisely what will happen.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by ph2082 on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:48AM (#30047656)
So much talent gone to FAANG.

Also, where is my flying car?

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by filoleg on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:28PM (#30053752)
> Also, where is my flying car?

In the same place where the majority of currently existing car drivers are potentially able to competently operate vehicles in the air.

I think while flying cars still have a technical component to the whole problem, the larger issues with flying cars aren't rooted in tech.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by fortran77 on Sunday January 23, 2022 @10:10AM (#30046652)
Translation: "I don't (or can't) work for a FAANG, so this kid shouldn't either."

This line of thought is absurd. We have no idea where this individual wants to work, and we're here tearing apart a hypothetical job choice.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by zulban on Sunday January 23, 2022 @10:16AM (#30046710)
Your comment reminds me of "those that can't do, teach". This is just a jaded insult. You know nothing about who you're replying to.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by fortran77 on Sunday January 23, 2022 @10:28AM (#30046823)
> You know nothing about who you're replying to.

And you do?

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by batty_alex on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:11AM (#30047260)
They may not but we’re supposed to reply in good faith, not assume OP is some sort of envious asshole
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by sokoloff on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:04AM (#30047189)
They’re not the one “translating” (read: re-writing) a comment’s content.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by danielrpa on Sunday January 23, 2022 @02:33PM (#30049595)
I am the parent and I work at a FAANG now. But I did have a company right out of college (which failed).

FAANG now is a means for saving for my next enterprise, which hopefully will happen very soon.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by dav_Oz on Sunday January 23, 2022 @08:31AM (#30046002)
If one looks a century back: AT&T, Xerox, IBM ... those were opportunities we can romanticize in hindsight looking back at the glowing examples of Bell Labs, PARC etc. Today's Big Tech is unrivaled in its unique position to fund R&D.

To put it on the talent's shoulder to decide against it ...? One can hope for individual cases but it is futile as Big Tech has fundamentally tilted the playing field not only on things like information flow but also on talent pool in their favor. From a system's POV at some point this of course gets stuck.

For example Musk tries to outpace this with his "rate of innovation" concept which on surface seems like a refreshing idea but is running on an outdated and collapsing hardware ("actual existing globalization") resulting in absurd numbers on the BBI like $243B. Leaving aside the forgone "sign-changing" and hefty "printing" by the central processors, initiated manually by a curious circle of people with access who decided it was a good idea.