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Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by nicoburns on Sunday January 23, 2022 @09:55AM (#30046542)
Yes, and that's why we should be taxing the hell out of these companies. It's not just about raising revenue. It's about allowing other companies to compete with them.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by yarky on Sunday January 23, 2022 @10:25AM (#30046797)
What's the logic here? Do you somehow think that taxes will encourage innovation ?

Anybody can compete, but apparently most of us choose not to. Who forces a young talent to settle for a job instead of taking the risk to innovate ? Maybe risk-taking for innovation is what could be the encouraged through taxation.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by ChuckNorris89 on Sunday January 23, 2022 @10:43AM (#30046972)
>Do you somehow think that taxes will encourage innovation ?

That's what some EU members think. Ask us how that's going :)

That's why most of the big and wealthy companies hare are around 100 years old or more, vs about 30 years old in the US.

Here in Austria you can get various government and EU grants for your startup and tax waivers on social security, and if by some miracle, you don't crash and burn like 95% of startups and manage to produce a semi-profitable company in the end, then you have to pay to the government retroactively all the social security contributions and taxes that have been previously waived over the past years, which is the final nail in the coffin for most companies here never growing or scaling beyond a couple of guys from uni in an apartment kind of company.

Therefore most of the innovation happens nearly exclusively within academia, as "outside" it's a pretty hostile tax environment that mostly favors those 100 year old companies that already have solid revenue streams.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by wowokay on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:03AM (#30047170)
I must be misunderstanding your comment. You are saying that younger companies in the US are becoming more wealthy and innovating more or at the same level as a few entrench EU companies that have successfully stifled the EU market ensuring they never lose there market share or have a need to innovate to complete in a free market, is that correct?
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by Dracophoenix on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:25AM (#30047416)
He's saying that the various EU governments has stifled startups by offering "subsidies" (that operate more like loans) only to demand repayment for them at rate much faster than these startups are capable of building value/marketability/profit, resulting in many of them being DOA or remain limited in size until they are swallowed up by a bigger company.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by nicoburns on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:32PM (#30048163)
> Do you somehow think that taxes will encourage innovation ?

I think that taxing large companies more than small ones might. The bedrock of capitalism is competition, and that is significantly stifled if big players with large amounts of capital can simply buy out anything innovative.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by fartcannon on Sunday January 23, 2022 @10:52AM (#30047054)
The money being required to live a normal life is the problem. A Star Trek style cashless society would allow people to live their life as they see fit, and would undoubtedly unlock a huge jump in human ingenuity.

But I don't think we are evolved enough to deal yet. We'd just end up in a communist prison life or something as people selfishly try to get more for themselves. Roddenberry thought an event like finding extraterrestrial life would be the push humans need, but I'm not so sure anymore.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by hiptobecubic on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:11AM (#30047258)
One thing I never understood is that star fleet and the federation are somehow post-scarcity utopias, but you still have "gold-plated latinum" driving a huge underground criminal counter-culture. What's the point? The ferenghi should be having a cultural existential crisis, but instead they are happy just charging people for drinks that can be replicated freely.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by grogenaut on Sunday January 23, 2022 @01:25PM (#30048785)
my understanding is that the space the ferrengi operate in doesnt operate much with federation space. ds9 is in deep space. and you cant make gold pressed latinum in a replicator. so it is a good trade item for working on a frontier and as a currency as the federation cant just print it.

but dont quote me.

its also a plot device to let them talk about economics.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by emteycz on Sunday January 23, 2022 @01:58PM (#30049169)
I don't remember gold-plated latinum being used within the Federation itself, all their worlds were blissful utopias. DS9 was outside the Federation, and at a place and time where the major civilizations were at war for decades. And even in DS9, the Starfleet officers never had any interest whatsoever in latinum.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by at_compile_time on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:08PM (#30047867)
You don't understand because it doesn't make sense. It's just fun sci-fi storytelling.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by narrator on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:54PM (#30048424)
The reason big companies have a huge advantage in the U.S is they get access to the jet stream of public market money that goes through highly regulated employee pensions and 401ks to Vanguard and Blackrock and then to the companies in public stock market indexes. The companies that form the stock market indexes get that money for very very cheap relative to small companies who have to find investors one by one or, outside of venture backed tech, take loans at high interest rates.

If someone can run a profitable business when money is hard to come by as a non-public company, it makes sense for a public company to buy them because they can get money much more easily and expand the smaller company's operations and make an even bigger profit. They can even run the company poorly and still make money because their money is cheaper.

Essentially, it's an information and regulation problem.

The best thing yet invented, taxwise, to counteract this advantage that big businesses have in attracting money is Qualified Small Business Stock (QSBS)[1]. It' a great tax incentive program because it massively rewards people for investing in startups. It is highly targeted to encourage that and not be a general loophole.

[1]https://www.sba.gov/blog/qualified-small-business-stock-what...

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by vasili111 on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:19AM (#30047340)
That means that country that will do that will not have competitive big tech companies and other countries will have.

Also, big companies are needed because there are technologies that cannot be produced by small companies. I do not understand recent tendency to make them look bad. Big companies are good for country and economy. Punishing companies for success is harmful for the progress.

I think letting market decide is better choice. Overregulation leads to decrease in competition and production.

Also, what is bad in it of big companies need to compete for talents? This competition leads for better opportunities and bigger salaries. I think it is good that person has a freedom of choice were to go.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by blululu on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:44AM (#30047625)
This is not a recent trend. America has had a big political issue over large industry since day one. The Jeffersonian vision of a nation of yeoman farmers (who maybe owned slaves) vs. an industrial economy built on science and technology. This shows up in debates over railroads (anti-trust laws start here). It leads to the financing of canals, and cars (more democratic forms of transportation). It leads to subsidies for single family homes vs multi family living. It leads to the constant struggle to break up AT&T and liquidate telecom equipment manufacturing (lucent had other problems). And yeah it leads to a desire to split up large companies that make good money for the country.

Of course a lot of processes also scale with size. With a decent welfare system this greater efficiency could also be tapped to achieve widespread prosperity.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by whimsicalism on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:22PM (#30048039)
I agree that central distinction between industrial economy vs. yeoman is a big cultural clash in the US.

I don't see what makes cars more "democratic" or anti-trust as firmly on the "yeoman" side of things.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by blululu on Sunday January 23, 2022 @01:41PM (#30048975)
A car is privately owned and oriented toward a small scale family/individual. It can go from anywhere to anywhere at anytime (assuming roads). Unlike a railroad which achieves much greater efficiency but requires more fixed schedules and routes. Everyone must move to the same place at the same time together. A lot of this is imagined but people really did buy into this (same with canals), and given the 200 year distrust of railroads, that gave a lot of political fodder to break up urban rail lines and make cities more car based.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by whimsicalism on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:30PM (#30048135)
> I think letting market decide is better choice. Overregulation leads to decrease in competition and production.

Not intrinsically, obviously, as anti-trust clearly shows. I am not anti-big intrinsically, for many of the reasons identified.

But I do think there are obvious downsides to be guarded against. If anything, as technology improves, technological barriers to entry should decrease and less big companies will be needed to work on certain advanced technologies.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by Fissionary on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:01AM (#30047159)
The idea of imposing punitive taxes on some companies, to level the playing field for everyone else, reminds me of Kurt Vonnegut's "Harrison Bergeron". It wouldn't have the desired effect anyway, since employee salaries are tax-deductible.

A better way to promote innovation might be through cultivating a spirit of entrepreneurship in young people, supporting startup accelerators, and handing out grants to promising candidates like the one in the article.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by supportlocal4h on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:44AM (#30047613)
I heard a story at a recent robotics tournament about a team that had competed together all the way from 7th grade through 12th grade. As the story went, the teammates were hired en masse by a certain high profile company who agreed to pay for all their college, etc, etc.

I thought it was an interesting story as I heard it repeated among the students at the tournament. Many of the teams have sponsors who donate $1000s so the schools/clubs can buy parts, etc. They are trying to encourage interest in STEM. But if the story is true, one company could spend $1000000 and inspire 1000s of students, generating lottery psychology. Of course, one person could just make up such a story for $0 and achieve the same thing. But it amuses me to think of some altruistic billionaire having a little fun and doing such a thing.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by nicoburns on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:37PM (#30048227)
> A better way to promote innovation might be through cultivating a spirit of entrepreneurship in young people, supporting startup accelerators, and handing out grants to promising candidates like the one in the article.

Taxing large corporations seems like it would be an excellent way in which to fund such grants.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by kortex on Sunday January 23, 2022 @10:48AM (#30047026)
I'm quite pro-taxing-corporations, but I don't see the connection. How is taxing certain tech companies more going to make the field more competitive? IMHO anti-trust laws are the tools need here. I don't see how you could target just the FAANG-esque companies with higher taxes without collateral impact to the very competitors you want to get more market share.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by whimsicalism on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:21PM (#30048019)
Why should I, as a young person, support a policy intentionally punishing companies for competing over my labor power just to make it so I have to work for petit-bourgeois small tech companies that can't pay as much?
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by brewdad on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:33PM (#30048178)
Because that tax revenue has to come from somewhere. If it doesn't come from the corporations or the 1%, guess who gets the bill?

The 2-20%. Especially those who are W2 employees and have limited options for offsetting their taxable income.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by relaxing on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:36PM (#30048217)
Because they’re no longer competing. They wield monopoly power that is anticompetitive, and it’s bad for everything else you value. (Assuming you value more than streaming media, two retailers, and ads.)
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by whimsicalism on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:54PM (#30048422)
They have monopoly power in the tech labor market? How so?
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by relaxing on Sunday January 23, 2022 @01:07PM (#30048560)
Isn’t the collective wisdom around here that there’s no competing with FAANG when it comes to job offers?

And we know they’ve engaged in anticompetitive behavior among themselves when it comes to recruiting. I would be unsurprised to find out it still takes place.

But I think the point was monopoly power from their core products is the real issue, and that enables the astronomical salaries.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by resueman on Sunday January 23, 2022 @02:50PM (#30049795)
The point of anticompetitve behavior in the hiring market is to be able to pay less to get people.

The fact that they pay the highest prices for people means they sure suck at it.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by relaxing on Sunday January 23, 2022 @07:16PM (#30052123)
You don’t know the highest possible price.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by nicoburns on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:36PM (#30048209)
Perhaps because you might want to live in a society where our economic activity is directed at activities which actually promote our collective wealth and wellbeing.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by HeyLaughingBoy on Monday January 24, 2022 @11:36AM (#30059960)
So... you let them grow big, then throw on the hobbles to get them poorer?