That's why I've ditched all of my Apple hardware and went 100% FLOSS years ago. The experience is polished enough for me as a developer to do what I need to do and after I set it up just the way I wanted it, no other setup can touch how productive I am on my Arch setup.

I've recently got the PinePhone in and while actual Linux on smartphones is very early, it's also an opportunity to have some real impact. I'll never go back to a walled garden, no matter how appealing it may seem from the outside.

> That's why I've ditched all of my Apple hardware and went 100% FLOSS years ago. The experience is polished enough for me as a developer to do what I need to do and after I set it up just the way I wanted it, no other setup can touch how productive I am on my Arch setup.

For the majority of users, this is irrelevant because linux is unusable for them. And they are the customers. To have a sustainable business, we have to target the platforms that paying customers use. That platform is not gnu/linux.

> For the majority of users, this is irrelevant because linux is unusable for them.

I got Ubuntu recommended by an electrician back in 2005 or 2006. (I used to be using Red Hat/Mandrake/Mandriva back then.)

Soon after I realized it had come to the point where Ubuntu was not only possible to install and use but simpler to install and use than at least OEM-loaded Windows machines.

It seemed to work well for grandmothers, kids and sysadmins.

Notable exceptions:

- certain people refuse to learn (certain Windows sysadmins)

- people who depend on powerhungry software that doesn't exist on Linux (for less power hungry software there is RDP or Citrix and Windows Terminal servers.)

I've thought about this as my grandmother has had a host of computer issues, some of them resulting in fraud scares.

The real problem for me is that support is really hard to come by if something goes wrong. Grandma can't access the internet on her Ubuntu system — who can help her? I'm 500 miles away, my parents are equally as far in the other direction. Neither myself or my parents use Linux as a daily driver either. Her neighbors have Windows or Mac machines. Does she drive to Best Buy with her desktop? Call in external help?

If she uses Mac or Windows machines, help is just a lot closer. My dad can replicate her issues on his machine and walk her through it on the phone, or I can. Her neighbor will at least potentially be familiar with the way the OS looks, so can offer greater help.

I'm not sure how you can close that gap if you're not next door to the individuals who would benefit most from it. While it may be a great individual solution, the support burden just isn't a solved problem in my opinion.

you've touched on the problem and the solution - number of people using it. for people who were children in the early 2000s it's a distant memory now but adults used to be generally bad with computers and windows was just as much wizardry as anything. be the linux userbase you want to see in the world and help others when they want to join just like the 10 year olds of 2003 handheld parents through computer use. there's never going to be a magic solution, there just needs to be a sufficient number of people using it so that your outlined issue of proximal support gets better.

ubuntu (and i'm sure others) are in a great state for casual users already -- i've handed multiple family members an ubuntu machine with no more instruction than "use it like any other computer, don't be scared by the icons looking a little different" with great success. for the increasing number of people who do almost all of their work in a word processor and a browser exclusively, it's a complete solution with almost zero hassle.

You must be new: the rules of software development from time immemorial.

There is no such thing as to much RAM

There is no such thing as to much DASD (Disk)

There is no such thing as to much Screen Size

There is unfortunately never enough Budget :-)

> To have a sustainable business, we have to target the platforms that paying customers use. That platform is not gnu/linux.

Try to tell Red Hat/Canonical/SUSE about it.

The biggest OP mistake is relying on iOS only. Spending 9 years as iOS developer - great, but if you're mobile dev working with two platforms will be a life savior for cases like this one.

I was thinking more of developers who can target the web/server, multi-platform. If you're dependant on Cocoa/SwiftUI then sure, but that means you'll always be at Apple's mercy. It's up to you to decide if you're fine with that.

> For the majority of users, this is irrelevant because linux is unusable for them.

While I think I get what you're trying to say, I don't think it's necessarily unusable for regular users, more so unreachable in a nice, preinstalled form from a well-known brand & retailer.

Also, there's no ads for GNU/Linux machines on TV or on the Metro, which I think is often underappreciated.

I know because I've personally witnessed friends and family members who swore Linux is unusable give it a serious try only after Windows or macOS crossed them for the nth time and haven't had a single one switch back.

The key is to get hardware that is well-supported and not 2nd tier i.e. not a netbook etc. that I'm just going to throw Linux on and compare the experience to my 10x more expensive MBP.

The experience's not perfect, but that's not the case for macOS either. Is it "unusable"? Far from it.

The key is to get top-class hardware with the express intention of it running Linux, rather than installing it on the laptop Windows will no longer run reasonably on.

It is true however that such as switch is easier for developers like myself who are not dependent on Cocoa/SwiftUI etc. but that's a choice you have to make.

Linux runs better on old commodity hardware than new "top-class" experimental hardware.

Not from my experience.

Linux does run better than Windows tends to on old HW, sure, but comparing that experience to macOS on new hardware is less than fair.

There's plenty of new hardware Linux runs great on, I am not sure what you call "experimental" hardware, but I am using a Surface Pro 7 as my main machine with exclusively Linux on it, no problems.

Any recent standard ultrabook should also work fine, heck I even have a random, no-name Chinese UMPC that works well.

Unusable is waaaay overstating it. It's no harder to use for the average user than Windows or OSX. Gaming is actually easier these days on Ubuntu than it is on both other platforms. And it's just getting better and better every year.

For some markets, unusable is not overstating it at all - it's literally true.

Much as I loathe Windows and increasingly dislike MacOS, there is nothing like Adobe CC or any of the major DAWs, video editing tools, or VJ performance suites on Linux. Not even close.

There are toy copy apps run as hobby coding projects. But professionals need the real deal - for file exchange and for other workflow reasons - and Linux simply does not offer that.

I did specify "average user". Obviously some people have needs that can't be met by just any old operating system.

I would understand if you said it's on par with other platforms but saying it's easier is bs

Linus made a recent video about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T_-HMkgxt0

Valve invested a lot in proton & Linux graphic stack last years.

So it's better than both Wondows and Mac experience now?

according to linus tech tips the answer to that is surprising...

on the other hand i just updated Windows 10 to v2004 and my microsft xbox controllers no longer work in Windows and they f'd up my resolution/scaling so i think i'm gonna go download Pop

Major version updates like 2004 frequently break drivers and basic functionality on first boot; a reboot usually restores majority of functionality automatically. Maybe try unplugging and replugging your controllers and manually check for Windows updates. There was a cumulative update for 2004 recently which may fix your issues.

Unless you want to use a gamepad.

Of you want to work for Apple at-will, go for it.

If your desktop product is good enough, your users will install Linux. Linux runs on Windows and Mac.

Your mobile app can be a web app.

I have never heard of a desktop Linux app that made people install Linux to use it.

I know a person who switched because of Docker prior to Docker for Mac being available and stayed because it's still a better experience.

Not a GUI app per se, but an app used on a desktop.

Selling software to users? Did you time travel from 1999 or something?

1) There are plenty of paid apps: https://appfigures.com/top-apps/ios-app-store/united-states/...

2) Taking his argument in good faith, he also means "free" apps with microtransactions, because in both cases the same situation exists: The iOS App Store is too big a market to ignore. Which leads to the same problem, regardless of whether your app is paid or "free", that if Apple suddenly decides it doesn't like you, you're screwed.

It's worth pointing out that you can absolutely sell software to Linux users i.e. I pay for all JetBrains software and recently purchased Ripcord[1].

What I've noticed on macOS however, is that is a lot easier to sell things that should be bundled or FLOSS for relatively serious money. For example there are dozens of rather expensive "Finder replacements" on macOS and you'll have a hard time selling something proprietary like that to Linux users because we do have good file managers that are libre software already.

1 - https://cancel.fm/ripcord

Try doing any of the following to professional level with a web app:

- sound editing/musical production

- video editing/special effects

- CAD/CAM/EDA

- Mechanical/physics/electrical simulations

- interfacing with custom hardware

> - video editing/special effects

Hollywood studios run on Linux (except Pixar, and granted, not with webapps), so it is possible. What's missing is the middle-ground, mass-market solution like Premiere/After Effects or FCP, though DaVinci Resolve is quite nice entry there.

It looks like we edit on windows where I work, but we're actually using proxmox. Shhhhhhhh it's a secret.

At least for:

- interfacing with custom hardware

From experience, that's a lot easier on Linux.

As for CAD, video editing and music production - sure you do have a point, except that in those areas the likes of Autodesk and Adobe dominate anyway and the "pro" segment of macOS/Windows users is a tiny fraction of the overall userbase, so I'd be rather surprised if that's the kind of software you can sell in decent numbers to macOS/Windows users as an indie dev.

You haven't tried using Manjaro Linux as your workstation.

I'm very lazy and I don't want to tinker with shit to get it running or maintain it. So, I stuck with Windows for the longest time. It was the easy path for a long time because a lot of my work was doing .NET. However, once I switched full-time to doing Node.js Windows got in the way more and more. I spent a lot of time investigating issues. I have a couple of Macs and I tried using macOS as my main, but honestly I can't stand anything about the way Apple does things. I just hate the bad window management, the shitty finder, the stupid global menu bar and the lack of a coherent hotkey system.

I had been trying out Linux desktop distros for honestly decades, out of pure interest. Every single one of my experiments ended in a failure to boot one day after an update. Then one day I read about Manjaro and I decided to give it a shot. 2 years later, I'm still running it as my main work OS on 3 different workstations (home desktop, work desktop and a laptop). Not one of them has ever eaten itself due to a bad update. I've had to fix minor issues after a couple of updates, but that's nothing compared to the shit I've gone through to make Windows or macOS usable.

If you're new to Linux, skip Debian, Ubuntu and all that crap and go straight to Manjaro. Installing software in Manjaro is way, way, way easier than any other distro and the stability for me on 2 desktops and a laptop has been nothing less than stellar.

> i can guarantee you that there are probably hundreds (if not thousands) of stories like that, with people getting shut down for no good reason, and having their business killed

How about Apple telling me they don't like my business bank (a well known UK bank I've been with for 10 years) and simply refusing to set up the account. In a very cold, "go away already", manner. I wasn't going to kill the relationship with my business bank just because Apple told me to, so the app never got onto App Store and I shut down my dev account.

All the issues people have with apple can be applied to most corporations.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's abhorrent, but it's something you should think about.

I once tried to open a new bank account with my bank of 10y, and set up direct debit to it. The point was that I was going to pay my rent from that new account (both me and a roommate would pay into the account, and a direct-debit would go to the landlord).

I filed the paperwork, in person, and heard nothing, a week passed, I phoned the bank, they said call back tomorrow.

I did, "please call in a week".

Waited a week, "please call back next week"..

So I go in person to the bank, and I refuse to leave until they fix it- I was being pressured by the landlord, I couldn't take the keys of the new property until proof of direct debit was handed over.

I waited for 5hrs in the lobby, basically from a few minutes after the branch opened until the mid-afternoon. Eventually a teller decided to help me because none of the bank managers were going to look at it.

What was the problem? apparently because I had claimed to have an income on one of the forms they wanted proof. I had never been asked to delclare proof before; and bearing in mind that previously I had never declared any income on any account _and_ I had standing orders/direct debits coming from the account; this was also the account that was where my salary landed, the only account I'd had since I was 13.

I tried to give proof, I showed bank statements and payslips... contracts etc; but because the payslips were on my phone they didn't accept them, I asked if I could use a printer and they said no.

So, I walked across the street to Barclays, opened 3 accounts with my passport and a proof-of-address, set up all my direct debits in 1hr, transferred all my money and that was the end of it.

What pissed me off most was the lack of transparency on exactly /why/ they decided not to move forward, expecting me to just sit on my hands forever is not good.

Fuck you HSBC, that was nearly 10 years ago and I still fucking hate you.

er... my point is that corps can be fickle and you shouldn't trust any of them. Especially the ones that implore you to trust them.

About 10 years ago HSBC got caught helping drug cartels launder money and they got massively fined for it. In the subsequent years they made it really difficult to open an account, but they wouldn't tell people what the hold up was because it's illegal for UK banks to tell customers that they are performing an anti money laundering investigation.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hsbc-probe/hsbc-to-pay-1-...

> "About 10 years ago HSBC got caught helping drug cartels launder money and they got massively fined for it."

From what I understand, the fine was much less than what they made from that money laundering. People should have gone to prison for it. The fine was only a slap on the wrist.

This explains so much about my experience... Couldn't they have asked me for materials though?

If they had been up front and said "we need payslips in A4 printed format" I would have provided them..

I tried to opened a business at that time and they asked what countries we think we might have customers in. I came up with a list off the top of my head and on that list was a potential customer in Mexico (which has the 15th biggest economy in the world so it shouldn't be that unusual). Anyway we never got anywhere with them and 3 months later they told us they couldn't open the account. I too wish they would have been open about it. It only took 3 days to get an account opened with Barclays across the street.

Ironically HSBC at the time had adverts plastered at airports all over the world bragging at how good they are for international businesses...

> Especially the ones that implore you to trust them

With long established institutions (like banks) you still have lots of competitors to choose from, and legal recourse if you are wronged. There is no recourse when PayPals, Amazons and Apples of the world decide to scrub you.

In my case it was Apple refusing to work with a bank because they don't have branches, apparently. It's a well known private bank, with a gazillion businesses banking with them, a subsidiary of a rather large multinational bank. For ten years my company has been paid by, and paid out to, numerous entities in the UK and abroad, with no problems. But now Apple comes around, all arrogant as they are, telling me to switch banks because they have enacted a rule that doesn't exist in any laws, just because they can? I am not willing to go down that route.

> because they have enacted a rule that doesn't exist in any laws, just because they can?

Which is the same as my example.

Legal recourse for your bank to lock down your account is actually very limited. But I agree that banks are at least more competitive so they're less likely.

If there were two banks (a duo culture, like google/apple in phones) then you can be very sure it would be the same.

You built a Progressive Web App (PWA) after that, right?

OT: why do you care which bank you're in?

Why would you allow Apple to decide which bank you must use?

My bank doesnt support Google Pay so I switched. Life is full of obstacles but we should go around them and not through them. Only person you hurt in your case is yourself. Or you didn't really want to bother with the whole thing anyway so you stopped at the first issue

The person you replied to is not the same one from the original story. And there are many reasons to prefer one bank to another; in the poster's case, switching to an Apple-supported bank might have introduced more obstacles to go through than it would have avoided.

> Life is full of obstacles but we should go around them and not through them.

Excellent example of short-term thinking. If everyone followed your advice, Google and Apple would be able to extort any bank in the world, until in addition to their software and ad near-monopolies, they'd also have a banking near-monopoly.

Why would you not allow Apple to decide what banks they want to deal with? If some bank has e.g. bad reputation because of some money laundering or terrorist money scandals, why would a business want to be associated with that?

As an American (banking system), I carefully choose which banks and credit unions I use based on a multitude of factors. Anecdotally many of my friends and colleagues are the same, the service and benefits (and hassles) vary greatly from one financial institution to another.

Yeah I guess I'm asking from EU perspective where in 2 countries I haven't really experienced any difference between available banks. I just went with first advice and haven't really noticed something was missing

I personally want to do banking with my local bank so the money flows to local economy not to some big American international company. I think this is a very good reason out-of many.

If Apple doesn't back down, they should be broken up by the DOJ into a phone/hardware company and an iOS/Mac/Services company.

The same should happen to Google with search, Chrome, and Android. You can't use dozens of entire markets as your product moat.

> The same should happen to Google with search, Chrome, and Android.

But... Why? Are you not an Android user maybe? Because it didn't make sense to me as an Android user. My default browser is set to Firefox with ublock origin installed. Search backend is still set to Google, but it's pretty easy to switch between providers. You're not forced into anything here

The real issue there is the deep coupling between Google services and Android, removing at least 70% of the phones utility if the phone isn't signed into a Google account.

The same applies to apple devices though, with the added issue that everything else is forced as well. While I'd be glad if Google opened up the services api, that's a very different issue to the one the original discussion was about.

i generally agree (and the same goes for amazon). But let's not mix everything, otherwise we'll get no result. I believe there is a real momentum at the moment on the "app store" issue, and we should focus 100% on that until we get some result (then we'll move to the next one).

I hope it's not going to be a talk about which commission rate is fair, because it completely misses the point. If apple wants to charge 30% commission for being able to distribute on the store, use their development tools, their apis, and have people pay using apple, fine. But just let my customers free to install my software on the hardware they own the way they want to.

> let my customers .. install my software .. the way want to

I generally agree with the sentiment as a developer.

As I user I never want to side load an app though. I’m afraid this will e.g. allow my bank to develop a shitty app bypassing the permission model and ask / force me to install it. I prefer to know even “strong” entities need to play by the sandbox rules.

Just because you can sideload doesn’t mean apps can just be unconfined; if you sideload an Android app for example, it’s still restricted by the OS sandbox and still has to prompt you for access to contacts, location, etc.

And as an aside: you can sideload apps on Android. Have you seen any banks try to convince users to sideload their app? I sure haven’t.

Its not about commission rate, its about market share. We should be breaking up every corporation that gets anything close to 50% of market share if we are going to pretend that we live in a "free market" system.

Even if it weren't the only option, the sad reality is that, for most, it'd be financial suicide to not be on the App Store.

Compare that to games on PC: even though competition has fortunately started to pick up recently, it'd still be madness not to publish on Steam.

All platforms seem to naturally tend towards monopoly, with an enormous first mover advantage. I wish I knew of a solution :/

I disagree. there are so many constraints today imposed on developers, and so many risks by trying to develop innovating apps, that i think a new ios store would have a lot of interesting apps to offer.

Also, for startups, making sure you have an alternative option to distribute your app in case it gets shut down on apple’s store makes it almost a guarantee that they’ll try to deploy on as many different stores as possible.

But that's the thing, for iOS devices there is no alternative option, and it is not possible to have another option since Apple won't allow it.

> it'd be financial suicide to not be on the App Store.

I find it amusing that people and businesses are willing to put their future in the hands of a company that has historically destroyed anyone who gets enough users on their platform.

If this is the best option, I think that the best option would be to actively work with a platform competitor. Do developers have a sense of stockholm syndrome ?

This is one of those nasty Prisoner's Dilemma type problems where everyone would probably benefit from a collective action in the long term, but it's hard to agree and coordinate when so many individuals derive (smaller and/or short-term) benefit from the status quo. Most societal problems seem to be of this form.

What's your alternative, since there isn't any, except to completely change your industry or business model?

iOS users are known to pay for apps they like. Android users less so.

The alternative could a webapp. But this all depends on what hardware access you need.

In the end it is a choice of business model. Taking the risk of making money while being dependant on one party (Apple, Youtube) is always a huge risk.

Users won't pay a one time fee to use a webapp and theres no infrastructure to do this. Maybe paid up front apps are a dying business model anyway and everything will be subscription based in the future. Theres also just a whole lot missing from PWAs right now, even on Android where they're at least somewhat supported.

Edit: Just to clarify I'm not bashing PWAs I've developed a lot for both the web and iOS and consider myself fairly mercenary, I will jump ship to other tech if need be. But there is still quite a way to go[0] and it's going to be hard to get these companies to agree on some of these standards. I'm also conscious of the fact that PWAs may just replace one dictator (Apple) with another (Google).

[0] https://whatwebcando.today/

the PWA experience is still not so great on iOS. no push notifications, limited service worker support, etc. the only realistic solution for many businesses is sadly a native app.

This is one of many reasons I am mad at Apple. Crippling PWA support makes perfect business sense for them, but ugh I hate them so much for it.

I don't even want to make any money off iOS apps in the short or medium term. I just want to make apps for my friends and family, and have the iPhone users have as good an experience as the Android users. But I'm not going to get into iOS development just for that. Why, why, why can't I just achieve it with a PWA?!

Because Apple will make less money that way, that's why. Again, it makes sense, but I still hate them for it.

Web app is not really an alternative on iOS, not unless Apple stops actively crippling PWAs and I don’t see Apple doing this unless they are forced to do so (anti trust).

PWAs are crippled by design.

Your ignorance is showing. There's few if any features PWAs can't compare in. And many of them are derived from Apple or Google fuckery.

No one will pay anything if there isn't a thing to buy.

> Bite down hard, because that whip's coming.

You're thinking of a whip, I'm thinking of another implement

That's not true at all. Plenty of developers sell through the Epic Store (having development funded by Epic), or GOG, or the Humble store, or on Itch.io, or even via microsoft store. There are abundant ways to fund a project on PC precisely because it isn't a walled garden. Sure Steam has massive dominance, but that is arguably because of the relatively open nature of steam itself. Valve don't have or seek a monopoly on distribution.

> Plenty of developers sell through the Epic Store (having development funded by Epic), or GOG, or the Humble store, or on Itch.io, or even via microsoft store.

They do, and that's great, but rarely can they afford to not _also_ sell on Steam. Steam will still take their ~30% cut of the vast majority of revenue, still mostly thanks to its first mover advantage, and there's no self-interest-preserving move the developer has against that.

The only exception are exclusives like Epic's, and exclusives aren't exactly great for consumers either.

> This kind of post infuriates me.

Apple's callous "walled garden" practices have always been well known. Honestly, developers who continue to participate in this shitshow had it coming.

If you want to create a cross-platform mobile app, you have no choice. In my country, iPhones are ~50% of smartphones. This needs to be regulated.

You have the same choice the device users have. It's their right to choose their device, and it's your right to choose which provider you use or don't.

It is not your right to reach all those people.

Sorry but that makes zero sense. Monopolies like these kill the free market, kill competition, kill innovation and by that they hurt the end-users and the whole economy. No one benefits from this current situation except Apple. That's why antitrust laws exist, to prevent exactly this type of behavior.

I agree with you 75%.

> No one benefits from this current situation except Apple.

This isn't true. See top comment, but all the FAANGs and their smaller siblings benefit in the exact same way.

The problem is systemic, and it starts with lobbying and disparity of legal standing between corporations and individuals.

I obviously (at least it was my intention) meant: "No one but big corps" (and I include their subsidiaries, sidekicks and wannabes into that). Countries don't, societies don't, not even science or economy, and especially not customers and makers.

No you dont.

People with more users have more word of mouth network effects.

Thats not much of a choice.

Either participate, or be locked out and lag behind the competitors.

The problem here is that Apple is both the platform and the distribution network, when we know very well, computers work just fine with a distribution of power its pretty silly to argue anything counter to that.

Id love to see mac users round here survive on mac os with nothing but the app store.

Good luck without npm, homebrew, wget, or any other convenient way to install software.

Reaching people is not your right. This is the fallacy that social media has taught a generation.

> Id love to see mac users round here survive on mac os with nothing but the app store.

You're moving the goalposts here... Anyone can publish outside the App Store, I thought this was a conversation about publishing ON the Apple Store?

> Anyone can publish outside the App Store

Not on iOS they can't. Which is the entire point.

> Reaching people is not your right.

No... but a competitive market is in everyone (except the monopolist/oligopolist's) interest. Our entire economic model is based on the premise that markets are competitive. Thus in situation like this where a big player in a significant market is being anti-competitive, it is more than reasonable to complain about it.

That’s his point... on iOS you can’t publish outside of the App Store, which cripples it as a platform

We ban accounts that post like this, so please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when commenting on HN.

Hi dang. I was wondering why other people can downvote my comments anonymously, but I'm not afforded the same opportunity?

Habits formed on SO would lead me to comment on anything I was downvoting anyway, but it feels like something of an imbalance that deters me from active participation in some conversations -- see my comments on the recent thread about SSC deleting the blog.

Edit: I also can't edit my reply to the parent of this, and regret my reciprocation of the name-calling... I wouldn't editorialise this out, just identify that it's an example of unhelpful behaviour.

I can’t do anything on SO besides favorite because of not having enough karma/points. SO is another bad example like HN in ways you’re having issues with.

I agree, that is a business risk you take. The problem is just that this risk is very difficult to assess and it leaves you very little in term of being able to influence it.

Exactly, this is why I vote with my wallet and don't buy Apple products. Apple's hardware is perhaps only marginally better than the competition's, which by the way is much richer in choice. Developers should look further than Apple. It is better for the profession.

Remember:

    developers : Apple == taxi drivers : Uber

> Apple's hardware is perhaps only marginally better than the competition's

Microsoft and other brands are getting better at making quality hardware faster than Apple is innovating in the space.

Apple still has the lead in their os just feeling so much nicer and solid to use but again it's still stagnant while windows is slowly evolving and when it comes down to it you can't even build a mac with the power you're working with on the Windows side so it stops really being an option if one means your work can be done multiple times faster (GPGPU workloads for example) than on the Mac side.

It definitely also helps that Apple has been churning out laptops with heaps of major issues. In recent years they've had issues with their keyboards, screens, and audio hardware. Plus they don't do any board-level repair or allow anyone else to, so if you're stuck with a dead mainboard outside of the warranty period the solution is basically "say goodbye to your data and buy a new laptop."

...and then not complain when they can't distribute to Apple users.

All these whinging developers seem to have forgotten that they made an agreement with Apple which included:

"10. Term and Termination. Apple may terminate or suspend you ... at any time in Apple’s sole discretion."

Don't like the terms, don't sign the contract. I learned that the hard way at the age of 19, it wasn't in tech, it was a housing contract, but I learned my lesson:

Before you agree to anything with legal standing, read it and reread it. Understand it, and if you don't seek help to get that understanding. Once you understand the terms you have to make a choice to agree or walk away. Then you have to live with the consequences.

This is the basis of legal justice (as it stands) and much of society relies on it.

I wish the Hey story makes people realise that we can't depend on benevolence of two corporations and should be working on open platforms.

Open platforms are great (and they are, I say this as a Fedora user who just finished an install via dnf'ing all the things) but they lack the money which translates to marketing that large corporations have, it's not a case of a level playing field, we are playing two different games on entirely different fields and ours is mostly uphill.

When your opposition has an absolute chokehold on major markets it's a near unassailable position - throw in that the vast vast majority of users simply don't care whether an app store is open or not or know why they should care - attention is finite and the only way things will improve is if governments lead it and well see my earlier paragraph about who has the money...

Apple and Google are not primordial forces. At some point they've started small and had to compete/coexist with IBM, Yahoo etc.

There are still emerging markets and space for innovation. And next innovation might be based on something open, like Ubuntu Touch.

>I wish the Hey story makes people realize it is not reasonable to have one actor control the only software distribution channel to hundred of millions of customers.

While Apple hasn't officially announced yet, they should have reached 1 Billion Active iPhone user in the past few months. They are just waiting for the moment to make the announcement.

The Mission Impossible 5 lines always come up in my head when I read these stories.

The App Store, was a hypothetically brainchild of certain people within Apple. Recruit former developers from other platform, supply them with tools, use them to grow the ecosystem and surgically remove our competitors, both at home and abroad. Its operation was to be hidden within Services in a virtual account that Steve alone would control. It would have made him a Judge, Jury and Executioner with zero accountability.

I say this little tongue in cheek but it's time to make a www.helpXisthreatningme.com (where X is Google play store, Chrome store, Apple store) and I'm sure it will have at least dozens of new stories like this everyday.

That’s a fantastic idea. It would also be a great place to collect these voices and get a bigger platform in discussions with the platform owners. Almost like a union of sorts...

>It's now so bad people are refraining from trying out innovative business model or apps just because they think there could be a chance someone at apple validation wouldn't like it and kill the product at any time.

This is very true. I know of many people who have legitimate App ideas that would flourish today had it not been the extreme restrictions that Apple and Google is putting on mobile devices. Sadly, I can testify, that Apple and Google are actively putting obstacles in the way of innovation because it hurts their business models.

> But this shouldn't be the only option.

Switch to Android. You just realized the same reason why I switched 8 years ago.

That and consistently raising prices. Apple is doing this to satisfy their never-ending rising stock-price and it will only get worse.

Ps. Android exploits are worth more than iOS once now. How times have changed...