1) bright enough to answer to achieve just about any desired outcome (usually not a high bar),
2) socially/politically aware enough to realize which outcomes will be good, and which will be bad; and,
3) agreeable/compliant enough to go ahead and game the quiz to achieve a good outcome without raising a fuss.
He said something along the lines of "I know some employees are going to try to steal from the register, but why would they admit that in an interview?
To demonstrate their honesty. ;)
OP put unacceptable but the answer was 25%
They never asked me to interview and I wonder if my "wrong" answers to the ambiguous questions disqualified me.
The manager sounds like they'd be happy to steal your wages, as long as it was "only a small amount". You dodged a bullet there.
I also think that going from that question to them stealing your wages can only be fairly analogized if it's a similarly insignificant amount. Is it wage theft if they underpay me by $0.02? Yes. Does it really matter? Not to me.
Personally, for me the amount is irrelevant; action and intent is what matters, so in some contexts $0.02 would absolutely matter to me.
The premise of the manager's hypothetical question was to determine whether someone is dishonest, which is flawed.
Rigid, extreme fundamentalists with over-simplified principles are not good employees.
>Is it wage theft if they underpay me by $0.02? Yes. Does it really matter? Not to me.
well: being pedantic, 2 cents an hour done constantly adds up to $40 a year. If we're talking minimum wage, every dollar counts.
That's part of the issue, a lot of wage theft happens to those who need it the most. But they also tend to be the most exploitable.
A well-developed code of personal ethics might not matter in the context of burger-flipping, but jobs requiring a high IQ usually also require someone to have principles.
How would a high IQ candidate answer this question?
Such a great movie.
With the questions all being like that with different wording, "I find myself getting frustrated in high stress situations.", "I enjoy high stress situations because they are exciting.", "Being around a lot of people all the time can be annoying", etc.
Over and over and over again for about fifteen minutes.
A lot of the time, it’s an unfamiliarity with “test taking as being a test of determining theory of mind of the test-giver”.
Rather than answering however they think the test-giver would want the answers to look like, they approach the test with alternative less useful approaches, ones like “holistic reframed hypotheticals” where they’re thinking of the situation in a modified hypothetical with a real world context introduced and with information that might dramatically change one’s answer, such as
“assume you’ve learned a coworker has taken some money out of the cash-drawer, how much money would be your threshold to snitch on them to management versus E.G. just asking them to put the money back?”, for which many people’s answer will not be “even one dollar”.
It is a trained skill to know this is a flawed approach and that broadly, “most tests don’t want you to make outside assumptions or reframe situations, and you should default to using strict and as-literal-as-possible interpretations of questions”.
Like 20 years ago, a company was taken to the cleaners because they used a test used by psychologists to evaluate mental health as a personality test in hiring. Now, people who make/use these tests are careful to only use them in ways that healthcare professionals don't. A side effect of that is that any test that would be useful for reliably measuring a candidate's personality/mental fitness would also be illegal. So a lot of these tests are bunk to begin with.
Which is an awful combination to select for, imo
The tests are usually so obvious, too. Like three awful traits and one good one. Coincidentally(or not?) I was rejected for that job for scoring too high overall - they said there's no way I'd stick around long, and they were absolutely right.
Hmm, but maybe they have that baked into the test!? If you slightly fail one of the bad metrics and none of the others they rate you super honest and hire you immediately! Science says we should definitely try to figure this out.
I feel like that's accurate. After all, I did describe it as "fairly" dishonest, not "very" or "extremely" dishonest.
Lying on personality tests is definitely an average, socially expected amount of dishonesty.
Not clever dishonest people can do ok sometimes
Clever honest people can be moderately successful, but can always be out-maneuvered by the clever dishonest people, thereby limiting how high they can climb,
Clever dishonest people rule the world.
Once it’s just a game, and deception is part of it… why, you’re not even behaving unethically!
Your goal is to move up the ladder and move quick. Get friendly with boss, the hold it over them. then get to the next step. maybe you need to pretend to fit in, maybe lie about qualifications. That's part of the board. Get powerful people to like you, get powerful tools and resources, and keep moving up.
Many stop around middle management since you start to need more money to push further, but it's a similar game as you go farther up, you just end up fighting against more players that may or may not be cleverer than yourself (and likely much more dishonest).
> So true.... Become dishonest
Win the second, will loose the first
[1] https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-...
99% honest people rule the world because of the sneaky 1% of cases where they cheat and make it count.
I'd count that under "clever but dishonest". I do agree most people aren't clever, but enough are.
This question itself might be a good interview question.
All of those things have been called "unprofessional" as a way to oppress minorities.
You chose to respond with something that just didn't address the issues I raised.
For you now to claim that I'm going "off topic" when you just ignored the original prompt, is absurd.
"Does social filtering constitute dishonesty or professionalism?"
Your highest comment is the fifth in depth, and everyone seemed to be confused about what you were getting at, because we were all talking about selecting images in a personality test during an interview, not talking about people's personal identity.
I'm not arguing that anyone should be able to do anything in the workplace, and that is a bad-faith reading of what I said.
People are assholes. And assholes need to be dealt with. But the term "professional" is consistently abused as a tool to oppress people.
I am arguing that the general (American) expectations of "professionalism" are deeply influenced by hateful people, and we should question those standards.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/outrage-male-bank-dire...
But there are other fun ways "professionalism" has been used to oppress people - from the way Women are expected to dress, to Black hair being treated as unacceptable.
You'd rather clever enough but defiant employees?
Or not clever and some other combo?
Being honest is realizing your situation and making tradeoffs to prioritize what's important. Pretending that your ability to call out weaknesses in the interview process makes you the best candidate is dishonest. If you feel that's more important you are forgetting why you are part of this process in the first place. If the outcome is they get a better interview process because of your feedback but you don't get the role, you failed in your original purpose. You need to be honest with yourself why you even applied in the first place.
Answering in a way that is not consistent with what you truly feel or believe is dishonest. I don't think it's an amoral dishonesty, as you say, you've been forced to play this dumb game. There are many cases where being untruthful is not morally wrong.
> Being honest is realizing your situation and making tradeoffs to prioritize what's important.
I wouldn't say that's 'being honest', it's being pragmatic.
Thank you for this reply, I couldn't have said it better. It's important that people realize
1) Representing yourself falsely is dishonest
2) Dishonesty isn't an especially bad thing in many cases. In fact it's socially expected in many cases, such as in interviews.
That doesn't make it less dishonest. It means that a lot of our society is an engine that basically runs on dishonesty.
I mean maybe they are, but they’re gonna be very unhappy with the most-honest answer from 95+% of candidates for the vast majority of employers and jobs.
So of course, you’re supposed to be… quite a bit less honest. And I guess maybe there’s some value in filtering out people who don’t get that? Or who refuse to “play ball” on principle? IDK the reasons, I didn’t make the rules.
I was raised with and internalized honesty as very important, and adjusting to an adult world (mostly—almost entirely, actually—the business world) in which that needed to be judiciously tempered and certain kinds of dishonesty were expected and failure to play along punished, was quite a damn shock. I adjusted eventually but I’ve never really been happy about it.
There is not a right answer, but there are some wrong ones that indicate a disconnect that do come up sometimes.
"Is it ever ok to steal?" If you answer anything but "NEVER, and thieves should be publicly drawn and quartered", you won't get the job, even if you have no particular foibles with e.g. inmates in death camps stealing from their captors, etc.
Either you're too stupid to recognize the difficulty in expressing complete and coherent moral directives in 10 words or less, or you're sufficiently coerced by your economic circumstances to bend some of your own ethics.
Obviously, what they want is for you to infer "is it ever ok to steal from your employer?", but again, this is complicated, because every single company that I've taken one of these tests for had robust anti-union rhetoric as part of their onboarding "training, and "be completely ready to work when you clock in", "your whole checklist must be complete before leaving" and "you must clock in and out only at the designated time" in their stated expectations for all workers. In other words, making any attempt to receive all the wages you are entitled to under the law is considered "theft" by the company, and they'll frequently have such rhetoric in the same training packet as the anti-union rhetoric.
These personality tests are perverse-incentive city, and clearly nobody requiring them has a high enough opinion of the people expected to take them to recognize that.
If I can't see my mistakes and failures, I would say I have zero ability to be honest; maybe I'm not 'lying' as such; I'm so far gone I don't even know I'm lying
With titles, some people will be dim or troubled enough to give the wrong answer on obvious ones, like "Starter Not a Finisher".
The right answer on other questions are trickier. Like maybe the company wants a handler of packages to be willing to toss the packages around "Good Enough", and some manager thought some people are a natural at that, and asked for a test to tell them. (Like when a non-technical executive was suggesting that I should give coding exams to senior software engineer candidates, and the strongest point in the argument was "This will tell us whether they do unit tests!")
Could titles be tricky, like if "Loves the Social Scene" is paired with image of someone partying hard, so the company might think they'll have hangover absenteeism, OUI, or other risks?
Or risk of insubordination, or disruption to the hierarchy? A self-image of "Natural Leader" in a worker-bee role could be seen as problematic by a simple-minded company.
Maybe Fedex is gathering data on which combinations of answers predict a unionizing troublemaker. Or, in the scenario that a shop floor employee is injured, which employees are going to be murmuring about it with others, speaking with investigator, etc.
If a company wants to be especially evil about it, some of these questions might be good for weeding out candidates with depression. Or for arguing pre-existing condition, if an employee later claims that working conditions caused mental anguish.
Then there's the meta of filtering out people who are alienated by this test, or who are not captive. Especially with the odd images in this test, I think many candidates with self-respect and other options will simply walk away. It's not like Leetcode hazings, where they've been conditioned since school that this is just the ritual you do to get that very-well-paying FAANG job. This is some different thing, to which you're submitting for a chance to work at FedEx.
What other possibilities?
Some of that could be useful to a company, if not very ethically. Also, maybe this was sold to the company as more than it is, based on flawed or fabricated psychological research.
I wonder if that is a) actually true browser behaviour and not something the site itself is doing (or something I've managed to make up)
b) if a is true, the reason it hid the kinda-header-looking text representation of the images from OP
Unfortunately I'm at a loss for the keywords to search to confirm this behaviour, I'm only able to find unrelated scroll/header results
Apparently I'm a "mentor" at FedEx. It resonates. :)
My current client had me sit one of these after 2 years on the job. That one labeled me "Debater". I argued with them out of principle. I think that if their HR people used it to screen me before I started, I would not have gotten the gig at all. :D
I'd expect even in the case of this quiz if you told people to affect certain personas you'd find the results statistically-significantly shifted, even if the people involved couldn't tell you any rational reason why they changed their answers based on the persona they affected.
“Gee, I wonder if ‘C. Let your friend have the goods for free, since they’re really struggling financially’ is the answer this retail store is looking for?”
...until I saw my boss's THREE HUNDRED page manual on how to interpret the results of these tests. There is apparently some entire industry behind these "tools". I've learned to limit my criticism of what is very clearly, to me, a load of weak-signal hogwash. They may as well throw chicken bones or read tea leaves from where I sit, but then again, I sit from a place of certainly smaller net worth than whoever is peddling this stuff, so round and round we go? :)
The OP of the Reddit thread didn't see the titles, and was instructed to "look at the images and go with your gut".
For the record, I don't have blue skin and hair, so I'd be inclined to answer "not me" for all of them.
I don't really see the value in these tests but, apart from the weird avatars, this one seems to be just Myers-Briggs with different words (for me, "thinker" instead of "INTP").
Two Drinks - Frequently Change My Mind
Laptop Screen - "Hard to Start a New Task"
Painting - Easily Offended
Couch Happy/Sad - "Tend to Feel Sad"
Sculpture Yawn - Art Isnt My Thing
Four Stars - "Good Enough"
Puzzle - Starter Not a Finisher
Flower - Unstoppable
Clock - "Always Wonder Why"
Gift - "Make Friends Everywhere"
Superhero - Natural Leader
Talking during Party - Chats in Elevators
Tweezers - "attention to detail" type of thing
Couch Laundry Basket - "Not My Job"
Hands in the Air - "Loves the Social Scene"
Pizza Glutton - Sometimes Thoughtless
Hike/Cook/Skydive - ... probably "adventurous" or fearless or like that
Fruit vs Donut - "Volunteering"
Close park - "Believe the Best of People
Management and HR claims to want those, until they actually get one
on the other hand, there could be a reverse personality test for the company
"Sociopath", "Perfectionist", "All about me", "Unrealistic Expectations", "Rude to the waiter", "Excessive Bureaucracy", "Easily Offends"...
Each one has a title like "Starter Not a Finisher", "Frequently Change My Mind", "Always Wonder Why", "Easily Offended", "Art Isn't My Thing", "Unstoppable", "Make Friends Everywhere", "Good Enough", "Not My Job", "Tend to Feel Sad", "Volunteering", "Believe the Best of People", "Hard to Start a New Task", "Loves the Social Scene", "Chats in Elevators", "Natural Leader", "Sometimes Thoughtless"