News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by neom on Thursday June 08, 2023 @10:45AM (#36242724)
My mum when I was a kid in the 90s: we don't store things in plastic, glass or ceramic only

Me when I was a kid in the 90s: mum is a f'ing idiot wtf is wrong with plastic this hippy shit is dumb

My mum 2020s: so plastic huh?

Me 2020s: ugh.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by Night_Thastus on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:00AM (#36242986)
If you can, there are some great borosilicate glass containers out there. I use them for everything. The ones I have seal well enough that I can fill it with soup and stick it in a backpack, ride somewhere and it's fine on the other side.

Thick enough to be basically unbreakable, microwavable, dishwasher-safe, etc. Don't need to worry about tomato staining either like on plastic. I've been thrilled with mine.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by adhesive_wombat on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:21AM (#36243386)
> basically unbreakable

The clip-retaining rims seem to love to chip on the IKEA 365 style ones.

The long-tabbed GlassLock ones seem less vulnerable to that.

Which not unique to glass boxes, I'm still amazed by how robust the living hinges can be, some are going on 10 years and haven't split yet.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by mszcz on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:28AM (#36243532)
That's interesting. I have around 10-15 of those IKEA 365 glass containers with plastic lids and have never had them chip. I stick them in the dishwasher all the time.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by adhesive_wombat on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:40AM (#36243757)
I have had Lock&Lock ones, of almost exactly the same design, for about 10 years and they're only recently starting become significantly chipped, but I had an IKEA one get a small chip within months. Maybe it's how I stack then without lids (physically don't have cupboard space to store with lids on).
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by curmudgeon22 on Thursday June 08, 2023 @02:06PM (#36246102)
mine quickly chipped as well... also stack without lids FWIW.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by sen on Thursday June 08, 2023 @07:18PM (#36250684)
Yeah we’ve got ~20 or so of the Ikea ones and we do love them, but a few have chipped in that way.

They’re still amazing for the price though considering how thick they are and how heat/cold/etc resistant they are. Many other brands crack if dropped even a small distance, or shatter if pouring hot food directly in from the stove.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by JLCarveth on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:03AM (#36243030)
Aren't the lids still plastic? I've never seen ones with glass lids.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by Grazester on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:05AM (#36243070)
And that is fine. We aren't going to be taking our spoons and forks and scraping the food from the plastic lip as we would with the container nor is the lid in contact with food should we warm it in the microware.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by kingkawn on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:34AM (#36243632)
real confident bout that, kind of like everyone who said that the rest of the container being plastic was acceptable before...
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by organsnyder on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:41AM (#36243760)
Perhaps not perfect, but it's at least a massive improvement over all-plastic containers.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by tescocles on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:43AM (#36243816)
You can find ones with glass lids.

Here in the UK we're lucky that Pyrex is still borosilicate glass, and there are some I've seen with glass lids that are advertised as "zero plastic".

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by rektide on Thursday June 08, 2023 @03:32PM (#36247457)
PYREX all caps should be borosilicate. Indeed harder to get now. Submission from 3d ago on the this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36206565
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by NoZebra120vClip on Friday June 09, 2023 @07:32AM (#36256265)
Snopes found a mixture of true and false in these rumors about Pyrex: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/exploding-pyrex/
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by jolux on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:02AM (#36243016)
Aren’t the lids typically plastic though?
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by Night_Thastus on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:03AM (#36243041)
Yes, but the vast majority of the container being glass still has advantages. For example, whenever heating it, you'd remove the lid and only be heating the glass.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by d1sxeyes on Friday June 09, 2023 @02:57AM (#36254280)
Actually, on at least some of the range, Ikea advertise that the lid can be used as a splash guard in both microwave and conventional ovens (at least on my local Ikea website that's what it says), and has photos of the whole kaboodle in the oven: https://www.ikea.com/hu/hu/images/products/ikea-365-eteltaro...
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by giantg2 on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:03AM (#36243044)
Yeah. At least the food usually isn't in contact with the lid though.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by bilekas on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:16AM (#36243290)
I would have assumed (probably incorrectly) that the 'seal' which would come in contact with the glass & liquids would be a type of silicone lid, while it could be considered a type of plastic, if its a good food grade lid, I would imagine it's a bit better ?

Ironically though silicone is much harder to recycle though.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by actionfromafar on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:19AM (#36243361)
U don’t recycle plastic, you burn it in a furnace. Spread the word.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by balaji1 on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:28AM (#36243520)
Burning seems to be the only good idea over long-term. But someone on HN explained that there are some toxic byproducts to burning plastic. Dioxins for one. So we need some way to capture those waste and store it along with the nuclear waste lol.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by actionfromafar on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:33AM (#36243613)
There are such capture devices and they are already in use to burn trash.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by infogulch on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:34AM (#36243638)
You just need a catalytic converter.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by digging on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:28AM (#36243530)
Not sure if you're serious or not, but plastic should not actually be put in the recycling bin. It almost never gets recycled, and if it does, it degrades quickly and becomes more toxic after recycling.

Plastic is garbage. If you live in a place that burns garbage for energy, that's the best fate for it.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by bilekas on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:33AM (#36243624)
Everytime I think I can do even something small to help, more clever people come along and ruin it!

Does remind me of a cool tech about plasma arc recycling.

https://www.explainthatstuff.com/plasma-arc-recycling.html

It can basically recycle anything into energy from what I briefly read.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by jolux on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:58AM (#36244091)
The lid is often thermoplastic of some sort, sometimes with a rubber gasket and sometimes without.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by George83728 on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:35AM (#36243651)
You can buy glass bowls with glass lids.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by ajmurmann on Thursday June 08, 2023 @12:43PM (#36244798)
I love using these for things like casseroles. I can bake it directly in the container or even freeze a raw casserole and when ready, defrost and bake. One less dirty dish and no need to transfer and make sure it will fit.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by rektide on Thursday June 08, 2023 @03:31PM (#36247438)
Not a huge deal, but heads up from 3d ago that pyrex is now often tempered soda-lime glass & not borosilicate & is somewhat succeptible to thermal shock breakage. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36206565

PYREX all caps should be borosilicate still & mostly immune (within reason).

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by goostavos on Thursday June 08, 2023 @07:23PM (#36250744)
I learned this one on a very unhappy thanksgiving! It shattered so explosively that every single single food dish was contaminated with glass shards (and some of my blood).

That ended up being a fast food for dinner night.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by mensetmanusman on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:38PM (#36245650)
Storing leftovers in glass when the entire supply chain is plastic... would be interesting to know how futile this is.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by Filligree on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:41PM (#36245716)
Fresh plastic, however. Newly made food-grade plastics will 'leak' a lot less microplastics than anything you reuse.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by pengaru on Thursday June 08, 2023 @02:43PM (#36246623)
Contaminants/toxins are cumulative, affecting probabilistic negative outcomes. So it always makes sense to do what you can to reduce your exposure.

Your line of thinking here is the same convenient sort of apathy which enables so many to become and/or stay obese.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by narag on Thursday June 08, 2023 @04:28PM (#36248452)
It depends on what you buy and where.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by diydsp on Thursday June 08, 2023 @08:35PM (#36251461)
Not the "entire." Watch some food factory vids. A lot of it is metal, waxed cardboard, silicone etc.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by washadjeffmad on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:34AM (#36243630)
We've got sets of Indian brass, Korean steel, and Japanese lacquered wood food containers that we use in addition to ceramics and glass. The glass chips, and once it does we tend to avoid using it for food.

Because all of these things last or compound over a lifetime, it's only expensive to be healthful if you wait.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by idiotsecant on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:36AM (#36243670)
What is with putting superfluous place names in front of things? Are you trying to sound fancy? You have steel and wood food containers.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by lostlogin on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:39AM (#36243720)
Those containers have a shape and style and the place names allow me to visualise what they look like.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by idiotsecant on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:40AM (#36243755)
Nobody else knows what your country of origin status symbol words are supposed to mean, so using them to communicate has one clear motive and it isn't clarity
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by cybervaz on Thursday June 08, 2023 @12:36PM (#36244674)
nah, you're just being overly reactive about things. You're not contributing to the main topic
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by kwhitefoot on Thursday June 08, 2023 @12:50PM (#36244932)
Perhaps no one knows but once it is specified they can at least look them up if they feel inclined.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by ajmurmann on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:15PM (#36245334)
I didn't know what a Korean steel container looked like, but Google gave me clarity and now I want some.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by jxf on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:48AM (#36243902)
American cheese is different from other kinds of cheese. Canadian bacon is different from other types of bacon. English muffins are different from other types of muffins.

OP isn't trying to be "fancy", they're trying to communicate. This is a weird thing to get agitated about.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by myshpa on Thursday June 08, 2023 @05:00PM (#36248974)
What we have here ... is a failure to communicate.

(I'll see myself out)

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by washadjeffmad on Thursday June 08, 2023 @03:20PM (#36247229)
Why even be that specific? My matter holders are made of matter.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by JeremyHerrman on Thursday June 08, 2023 @06:44PM (#36250269)
This reminds me of a scene from the Simpsons [1]:

Homer: Hmm. I wonder why he's so eager to go to the garage?

Moe: The "garage"? Hey fellas, the "garage"! Well, ooh la di da, Mr. French Man.

Homer: Well what do you call it?

Moe: A car hole!

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5t9w98afJo

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by bombela on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:53AM (#36243991)
Isn't lacquer technically a sort of plastic?

I could find images for Indian Brass Container to learn what it is. But I didn't find anything conclusive for Korean steel.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by BizarroLand on Thursday June 08, 2023 @12:14PM (#36244330)
Lacquer is resin from trees, not plastic.

I don't know if it's better for you than plastic or really anything about its chemical composition, but it's not plastic.

Edit: After reading more, there is an acrylic lacquer that was developed in the 1950s that contains plastics, but outside of that, normal or traditional lacquers are typically biological in origin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacquer

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by ericd on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:03PM (#36245138)
What percentage of lacquers these days do you think is the old natural type? I’d wager it’s very low.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by BizarroLand on Thursday June 08, 2023 @05:03PM (#36249023)
For mass produced items, I would agree.

For stuff made by lone craftsmen & small boutique shops, maybe 50/50? Maybe less?

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by BobbyJo on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:30PM (#36245543)
When you say "normal", does that mean "common"? As in, if I buy lacquered wood, can I expect it to be synthetic or biological? Is there a way to tell, or do you just have to trust the source?
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by BizarroLand on Thursday June 08, 2023 @05:02PM (#36249010)
By Normal, I mean "Non-Synthetic" as it regards to lacquers.

For the lacquer you buy in the stores, you will have to examine the contents to see if you have actual lacquer or synthetic petroleum lacquers.

As far as wood products, if it was made after the early-mid 80's, assume that if it was lacquered it was done so with a synthetic, or if it is some form of manufactured wood.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1986-11-09-860324...

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by pengaru on Thursday June 08, 2023 @02:59PM (#36246890)
My impression is that finishes free of petroleum products have become somewhat of a niche cottage industry these days.

So I wouldn't assume anything acquired finished by someone else is free of such things, regardless of whatever once-precise names they used to describe the finish.

Even when you try DIY-finish something with an eye towards food-safety it's rather challenging. E.g. the "Boiled Linseed Oil" you find on store shelves isn't actually boiled linseed oil, it's usually been adulterated with petroleum distillates and sometimes toxic "dryers" (cobalt comes to mind) to achieve the results boiling used to serve.

Here in CA the once common Turpentine which is literally distilled pine trees can't even be sold to the public due to VOCs. The stocked replacements are mostly petroleum distillates, labeled as known to cause cancer in the state.

The oil industry has infected everything

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by autoexec on Thursday June 08, 2023 @03:41PM (#36247627)
Why would oil companies dispose of their toxic byproducts when they can sell them to companies who will poison the public with them? Since it makes them money and there's zero risk of legal repercussions for it, the only thing that would stop them is having morals and the oil industry certainly isn't burdened with those.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by NoZebra120vClip on Friday June 09, 2023 @07:33AM (#36256280)
This transitive logic applies to chemical companies and pharmaceuticals, more than anyone realizes.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by hinkley on Thursday June 08, 2023 @06:27PM (#36250107)
That resin comes from a tree that is the source of the name for urishiol - the chemical that makes poison ivy such a nasty experience.

It's probably better than plastic, but remember that coral snake venom and puffer fish toxin are 'all natural' and so the concept of all natural is utter and complete bullshit.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by bilekas on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:11AM (#36243178)
Slightly different experience, but my parents were like this always when growing up, it never was an issue but it was just a constant thing that I inherited.

Nowadays though I have the extreme where if my food is in plastic I don't feel the food is contaminated (until recently, but for different reasons), but like the plastic is forever smelling of the food and filthy.

My gf uses plastic lunchboxes and even reuses plastic bottles and I swear I can smell the things around the appartment. It's gross.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by rektide on Thursday June 08, 2023 @03:34PM (#36247490)
My dad & his ancient reused plastic waterbottles & container ware. :(
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by ren_engineer on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:25AM (#36243468)
will be interesting to see if plastic ends up being our modern day equivalent to Rome and their lead pipes
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by anlaw on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:28AM (#36243522)
Sounds like leaded gas. Wasn’t banned until 1980s.

Our leaders are 80 year old post war shell shocked, Cold War paranoids who huffed leaded gas fumes for decades. Explains quite a lot actually.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by edem on Thursday June 08, 2023 @02:23PM (#36246357)
this comment made my day
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by hnick on Thursday June 08, 2023 @09:55PM (#36252153)
A lot of voters, too...
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by Frost1x on Thursday June 08, 2023 @07:36PM (#36250892)
There's a delicate balance between adhering to empirical data and paranoia of something.

On the one hand, you can point at mountains of data that show for the most part, to our knowledge, many plastics are safe when used appropriately. Specific cases have shown otherwise (e.g. BPA use and hazards in certain plastic manufacturering is a well studied example). Then there's all the cases where we have little evidence it's harmful. Our ignorance of harm doesn't mean there isn't harm though.

Transition to paranoia. Everything we don't empirically know is a non-hazard and non-dangerous and should be avoided or leveraged very cautiously. We use materials that have been around for ages like wood and ceramics because we know most the hazards at this point and rely on the maturity to mitigate risk of the unknowns.

Somewhere in between we can try to reason about things, but frankly we don't know either way, so either extreme argument (avoid at all costs, use it because it's safe as far as we know) is rational.

The Roman's has no reason to think lead was hazardous until it was a bit too late. Marie Curie had no idea she was slowly killing herself. In some places where time isn't critical, we should probably lean towards the paranoia and tread cautiously. In times where time is important and progress should be made we should tread more toward risk taking and accept the unknowns while trying to manage risk as we go. No matter what risk exists. Lead propelled the Roman's in some aspects, then in some perspectives may have been one of their ultimate downfalls.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by myth_drannon on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:25AM (#36243464)
We threw away all our glass containers because they constantly chip. I'm more afraid of ingesting piece of sharp glass than nanoplastics. I don't know why that keeps happenning, I guess dishwasher's high heat damages the glass or they keep bumping into each other.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by idiotsecant on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:39AM (#36243729)
That's weird, I pretty much exclusively use glass food storage and it's never chipped. And I just got some random ones off Amazon, not like they're some super high quality or anything
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by hedgehog on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:31AM (#36243577)
It may be how you load, I don't think that's a common issue. Microscopic bits of glass are basically sand though so I wouldn't worry unless there's a lot or it's getting airborne.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by hinkley on Thursday June 08, 2023 @06:32PM (#36250154)
I've given up on teaching my partner how to load a dishwasher. She insists you can fit more into a load. We also have a bunch of chipped plates and mugs. Not on my watch of course.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by Fire-Dragon-DoL on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:27AM (#36243500)
You would poop the glass though
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by arsome on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:29AM (#36243548)
Yeah, generally speaking unless it's a very large shard and cuts your esophagus, once it reaches your stomach, acids will knock the edges off and it'll pass without issue.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by thombat on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:39AM (#36243739)
Gastric acid is basically hydrochloric acid, and rather less concentrated than the standard laboratory bench HCl, which stands peaceably for years in glass flasks. I would be wary of assuming that chemical attack will quickly blunt glass shards.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by lostlogin on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:43AM (#36243809)
I really doubt stomach acid would do anything to glass. Strong acids are regularly stored in glass.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by XorNot on Thursday June 08, 2023 @06:14PM (#36249969)
HCl will do nothing to glass. It's strong bases that will dissolve glass (a little), and your digestive system doesn't have any.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by Karawebnetwork on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:36AM (#36243681)
In some cases, probably rare ones, it can lead to perforation of the intestine
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by myth_drannon on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:36AM (#36243668)
well the pieces are about 5mm. For sure it will cut mouth, throat or something else.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by TurkishPoptart on Thursday June 08, 2023 @12:05PM (#36244167)
No, I think eating glass leads to internal bleeding and could be very bad for you.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by Fire-Dragon-DoL on Thursday June 08, 2023 @12:28PM (#36244569)
I remember being really scared about it and then I vaguely remember some doctor saying most stuff will go through stomach just fine, and that included glass.

Memory is fuzzy and I'm definitely not a doctor, so please double check.

I'm assuming if you are eating glass, it's a small enough piece that you won't notice, it can be big, you'll notice in your mouth.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by Ireallyapart on Thursday June 08, 2023 @12:55PM (#36245001)
Get the expensive pyrex glass.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by myth_drannon on Thursday June 08, 2023 @02:10PM (#36246173)
Pyrex is the one that chips.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by Ireallyapart on Thursday June 08, 2023 @02:17PM (#36246273)
weird. I never had a problem with pyrex. Must be something to do with the environment the glass in your specific case is exposed to.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by hinkley on Thursday June 08, 2023 @06:33PM (#36250166)
Pyrex is just tempered glass now. You have to trawl yard sales and antique shops to find the borosylicate version.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by ceejayoz on Thursday June 08, 2023 @07:59PM (#36251111)
There's actually two variants, confusingly differentiated via capitalization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrex

> The pyrex (all lowercase) trademark is now used for kitchenware sold in the United States, South America, and Asia. In Europe, Africa, and the Middle East, a variation of the PYREX (all uppercase) trademark is licensed by International Cookware for bakeware that has been made of numerous materials including borosilicate and soda-lime glass, stoneware, metal, plus vitroceramic cookware.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by vsareto on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:19AM (#36243363)
Purchased drinks taste different in different containers (Coke in plastic vs glass vs aluminum), so I’m on board with food.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by dTal on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:33AM (#36243625)
Coke in "aluminum" is actually coke in plastic; the cans are lined.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by chrisco255 on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:52AM (#36243976)
No they're not. It's an epoxy resin, not plastic. It's BPA.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by actionfromafar on Thursday June 08, 2023 @12:07PM (#36244208)
So, a plastic then?
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by nehal3m on Thursday June 08, 2023 @12:31PM (#36244606)
Is it?

[0] Bisphenol A (BPA) is a chemical produced in large quantities for use primarily in the production of polycarbonate plastics.

Guess it is. Why is it a problem?

[1] Researchers have found that BPA exposure is linked to a number of health issues, partly because BPA mimics the structure and function of the hormone estrogen

Not to be wagging the finger, but instead of a snarky remark (ending in a question mark, so the reader can't conclude anything from it) a little Googling and posting a correction with the reasoning would be better.

[0] https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/sya-bpa/index...

[1] https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/what-is-bpa#basics

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by gamblor956 on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:31PM (#36245550)
BPA is not a plastic. BPA is not a resin.

It is a precursor to resins and plastics, the same way that water is a precursor to sea water but is not the same thing, even though sea water is 96% water by weight.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by saiya-jin on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:53AM (#36243994)
And for decades it was full of BPA, AFAIK it still is ('stable' one, if you believe them...)
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by teddyh on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:57AM (#36244058)
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by Ireallyapart on Thursday June 08, 2023 @12:52PM (#36244960)
aluminum may be toxic too.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by conradkay on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:03PM (#36245158)
I think they're talking about McDonalds which uses stainless steel tanks for delivery. I'm pretty sure those aren't lined with plastic.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by dTal on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:31PM (#36245559)
I would think if they had meant "stainless steel" they would have said so, rather than "aluminum".
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by cma on Thursday June 08, 2023 @06:57PM (#36250426)
The cup linings and soda dispenser hoses and miles of water supply lines to the store your house and everywhere typically are.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by mtlmtlmtlmtl on Thursday June 08, 2023 @10:57AM (#36242932)
Not sure it matters since there's plastic in all the food and drinking water anyway.

There's no way to avoid ingesting plastic any more. You could maybe reduce it a bit, that's all.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by jjallen on Thursday June 08, 2023 @10:59AM (#36242960)
So don’t try and minimize it altogether because you’re getting some elsewhere? This isn’t good logic.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by mtlmtlmtlmtl on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:13AM (#36243228)
Sure, minimise if you want.

But yes, my intuition says that whatever you might eliminate by not storing food in plastic and other types of avoidance is just gonna be a tiny drop in the constant dose of plastic you're getting from everything you ingest.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by coldtea on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:12AM (#36243187)
If minimizing it wont make any real dent, it's a sound logic. You know, if it just ends up as wasted, feel-good busy-work.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by haswell on Thursday June 08, 2023 @12:03PM (#36244136)
I don't think this is the right way to frame this.

To me, this is a problem that needs broad solutions and some of those solutions are available immediately and some require broader changes, i.e. there are some things I can control and some things I can't.

Living your life in a way that is conscious of these risks and minimizes them when possible makes the avoidance of plastic an ongoing concern, and increases awareness of the issue in public consciousness.

I don't see how broader changes are possible without growing awareness, and often the best place to start is in one's own life.

If you were to examine the decision in a vacuum and discard all downstream effects, I think it's rational not to invest effort if it won't make a difference.

But I think this overly constrains the possible effects of making the changes that we can, and underestimates the value of instilling ideas in public consciousness.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by olalonde on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:11AM (#36243170)
When the risk is small enough, it seems rational to ignore it.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by haswell on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:14AM (#36243258)
The more we learn, the less reasonable it seems to dismiss the risk as small enough to ignore.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by dekhn on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:39AM (#36243728)
in many cases it's the opposite: the more we've learned, the more we recognize that the body is able to tolerate small doses of many things in a way where the effects at larger doses don't scale down (IE, the linear no-threshold model is probably wrong in many cases, beyond radiation)
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by haswell on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:53AM (#36243990)
I'm not making claims about a specific harmful threshold, just pointing to the rationality of concern given the ubiquity of plastic and our increasing understanding of its harm.

Unless you're saying we understand the specific threshold for plastic and the risk of reaching that threshold can be reasonably extrapolated from typical levels of exposure, I think we're getting at different points.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by matheusmoreira on Thursday June 08, 2023 @06:35PM (#36250192)
When the risk is significant but there's no viable solution, it's also reasonable to ignore it. There's no way to fix the microplastic problem at the individual level so the best thing to do is to ignore it. Actively avoiding plastics will only cause hardships without any significant results in exposure.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by wkearney99 on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:28AM (#36243521)
Emphasis on /seems/. It all adds up, small or not.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by gotoeleven on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:09AM (#36243147)
It's important that the titanic's deck chairs be nicely arranged.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by riskable on Thursday June 08, 2023 @12:23PM (#36244486)
Eating food out of a plastic container isn't going to increase your microplastics intake (by enough to matter). Those kinds of plastics are too stable to be a problem in that regards. Even if you left your food in them in the fridge for days.

The microplastics problem is a pollution problem. When you're done with any given plastic thing you throw it out. Some tiny percentage gets recycled, sure but for the most part nearly all plastics get trashed.

The trashed plastic breaks down into microplastics slowly over time and those microplastics are very mobile and easily wash or blow away if they're exposed to sun. This means they end up in rivers, lakes, streams, and large bodies of water (e.g. the ocean). From there they diffuse and get inadvertently eaten by sea creatures which are then eaten by larger sea creatures and ultimately end up concentrating inside the larger species that we eat.

It's not just the fish though; it ends up in our water supplies which are used to wash our other foods and ourselves. Basically, microplastics are currently so pervasive in our water supplies that every product made for human consumption that exists has microplastics in it.

The solution isn't to do away with plastics entirely it's to use different kinds of plastics that don't become long-lived microplastics. For example, polylactic acid (PLA). It's not suitable for all purposes but it's perfectly fine for something like a frozen food container or even the thin plastic film that goes seals it up.

The only reason we're not using such plastics (in the places where they can be used) is they're not as cheap as the bad stuff. We need regulations that require single-use products use plastics that don't break down into long-lived microplastics.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by titzer on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:57AM (#36244068)
The planet is absolutely tainted with nanoplastics at this point. They are already being sucked up into the atmosphere and being deposited on the tops of mountains. There's no escaping it.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by dclowd9901 on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:32AM (#36243607)
I keep saying it but it would be phenomenal if glass container recycling became an earnest effort. I’m just not sure we actually have the infrastructure to support such an endeavor. Even something like carting a load of groceries out to your car and loading them up suddenly becomes quite a lift.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by chrisco255 on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:55AM (#36244020)
That's a good thing, many Americans are in need of a regular workout anyways.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by Pxtl on Thursday June 08, 2023 @10:50AM (#36242815)
A good set of mason jars is great for lunches, for salads and pastas and the like. They seal better than tupper, they're microwave-safe, they're standardized so you can get replacement lids easily, and they're pretty rugged. I use metal when the kids are too young for glass.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by isametry on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:05AM (#36243076)
By "too young for glass", I'm assuming you mainly hint at weight – which happens to be basically the only, but quite significant downside to glass.

The material itself is already about 1.5× to 2× as dense as your average container plastic, plus since you're aiming for at least a decent strength, on top of that the wall thickness will probably be several times larger too.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by derekja on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:26AM (#36243484)
I had presumed he meant breakage and the shards turning into little knives.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by cout on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:24AM (#36243447)
Plain glass jars can break if dropped (or thrown) off the table. If I'm sure a jar is borosilicate then I might consider letting my child drink from it, otherwise it's not worth the risk.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by masfuerte on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:32AM (#36243604)
I've heard of a very small child being offered a sip from a thin glass and biting a chunk off the rim. Fortunately no harm was done.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by saiya-jin on Thursday June 08, 2023 @12:01PM (#36244103)
This happened to us on vacation in Italy 2 weeks ago, my almost 2 years old daughter was drinking water from glass wine (since some better restaurants there don't give you any other type of glass regardless of drink).

We obviously freaked out and acted immediately, the staff was a bit concerned but it wasn't their child chewing glass shards. Daughter fortunately developed quite a skill or pushing stuff she doesn't like from her mouth using tongue, so she pushed out everything quickly, small cut in her inner mouth, 2 minutes of crying, us running around and that was it, with some evening worries (wife is a doctor but still...).

Not recommending this experience, better check what they give to your young ones (say below age of 3) beforehand, or just bring your own unbreakable one, even if (good) plastic.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by Msw242 on Thursday June 08, 2023 @10:55AM (#36242891)
Metal usually has a plastic coating though, doesn't it?
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by clnq on Thursday June 08, 2023 @10:59AM (#36242977)
Coca-Cola cans (and probably many others) have plastic coating with BPA on the inside.

But that doesn’t matter much in comparison, because PFAs are in the product, allegedly: https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jan/19/simply-o...

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by pitaj on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:24AM (#36243445)
It's not BPA anymore, but something very similar.

Also, PFAS is not the plural of PFA - those are actually different classes of chemicals.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by clnq on Thursday June 08, 2023 @12:22PM (#36244462)
Thanks for the correction!
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by clnq on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:40PM (#36252821)
Did they switch recently? As of 2020, it seems there was BPA in aluminium can linings of Coca-Cola? https://www.coca-cola.co.uk/our-business/faqs/does-coca-cola...
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by Grazester on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:08AM (#36243128)
I don't think someone trying to be totally healthy is going to be drinking Soda or any of these juices with their ridiculously high sugar content anyway.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by clnq on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:16AM (#36243301)
Two things:

1. Lots of drinks come in metal cans with BPA lining on the inside.

2. You can absolutely be reasonably healthy and drink some of these drinks, including the variants that are not sugar-free. I don’t think most people try to be perfectionistically healthy. But I think PFAs are not anywhere closer “reasonably healthy” to consume.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by ifyoubuildit on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:42AM (#36243794)
It's kinda like saying people can be reasonably healthy and still smoke some cigarettes. True enough, but if someone is trying to be healthy that's a pretty obvious change to make.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by saiya-jin on Thursday June 08, 2023 @12:05PM (#36244169)
I don't think I ever considered drinking from cans healthy, it is just a desperate move if no better option is present. Same beer tastes significantly worse compared to glass (but if you drink cheapest crap you probably don't notice nor care).
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by kijin on Thursday June 08, 2023 @12:59PM (#36245091)
Wine would be a better analogy. It contains a large amount of a known carcinogen (alcohol), but plenty of people who try to be healthy don't feel particularly guilty about drinking some wine every now and then.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by ifyoubuildit on Thursday June 08, 2023 @02:25PM (#36246390)
I don't know if it's a better analogy, but I agree that it's a good one. There are tons of things that won't outright kill you on first exposure, but are good candidates for minimizing if you want to improve your health.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by chrisco255 on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:56AM (#36244055)
BPA is not plastic.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by giantg2 on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:05AM (#36243079)
Food/drink cans do. Reusable storage made from stainless steel usually doesn't.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by artursapek on Thursday June 08, 2023 @11:01AM (#36243001)
based mum
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by balaji1 on Thursday June 08, 2023 @12:15PM (#36244351)
What are the concerns about the “plastic” carpets in American homes?

They are pretty much everywhere. They shed fibers all the time. We’re in contact with it all the time.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by ericd on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:07PM (#36245212)
Yeah, polyester/nylon/polypropylene are everywhere. There are some really good, reasonably priced all wool ones available here: https://hookandloom.com/browse/undyed-natural-wool-rugs/loom...

They’re so much nicer than the plastic type, and seem durable so far (the thick flat weave type has been holding up well on our stairs).

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by rootusrootus on Thursday June 08, 2023 @02:30PM (#36246468)
> They’re so much nicer than the plastic type

Unless you have kids or pets, or live somewhere especially humid, in which case you will regret not getting nylon.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by ericd on Thursday June 08, 2023 @05:15PM (#36249199)
We live somewhere humid and have very young kids, their playroom is covered with a very big one of those loom hooked ones, it’s awesome for that because it’s so soft. Spills tends to come out of it pretty easily, the wool seems to be at least mildly hydrophobic.
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by hinkley on Thursday June 08, 2023 @06:30PM (#36250135)
Polypropylene is probably the least nasty of the bunch.

Probably.

When the BPA scare came I saw so many people switching to a different kind of plastic instead of stainless steel or glass. I just could not understand what people were thinking.

Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by m463 on Thursday June 08, 2023 @08:32PM (#36251434)
carpets also have PFAS
Re:Nanoplastic Ingestion Causes Neurological Deficits by posterchild7382 on Thursday June 08, 2023 @05:02PM (#36248998)
I think the bigger problem can be that it is present in drinking water. Both bottled and tap water. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9103198/

Of course it cannot be positive to store food in plastic containers either. But difficult to avoid.