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Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by can16358p on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @09:41AM (#34708625)
Turkish here.

This is unbelievable, but totally expected from the current "democractic" government. Social media usage is very high in Türkiye and people are coordinating using social media (mainly Twitter) for rescue operations in near realtime.

I'm pretty much sure some people will literally die under wreckage because of communication interruptions as the result of this block.

(For anyone telling to use VPN, yeah, many people are used to using VPN because of these blocks which also happened in the past, but not everyone is tech savvy and it's not reliable for life-or-death situations.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by cultofmetatron on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @10:05AM (#34708977)
> For anyone telling to use VPN, yeah, many people are used to using VPN because of these blocks

not to mention, imagine learning to setup a VPN (Beacuse your life depends on it) while you're buried under rubble..

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by can16358p on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @10:07AM (#34709026)
Exactly. Imagine a government willfully ordering ISPs to block access to Twitter where people under wreckage are trying to reach for help using social media.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by MengerSponge on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @01:27PM (#34712450)
There's a very dark WikiHow article in the works here, or a SNL sketch
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by xwdv on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @01:52PM (#34712847)
as long as you have a phone I’m pretty sure it’s not that complicated to setup a VPN even while buried under rubble. You could download NordVPN off the App Store and register an account and subscription or perhaps just use a free server. Then under your iPhone settings you can set it up to use the VPN or the app could do it for you maybe.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by Sunspark on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @02:25PM (#34713427)
Radio signals do not penetrate through stone or concrete well which causes increased battery drain. You also have the issue of perhaps diminishing oxygen and cognitive impairment caused by shock and crush trauma.

It would be better for battery life for people to just text a friend or family member and say "crushed under tons of stone at home, please send help". Nobody is going to do an AMA on Twitter while buried using up the precious battery life for retweets and likes.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by xwdv on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @03:06PM (#34714119)
But after the initial shock wears off it becomes a waiting game, perhaps socializing with the outside world will give you the will to survive.

It would certainly make for one hell of an AMA.

“I’m trapped and slowly getting crushed under tons of rubble, AMA.”

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by nyc_data_geek1 on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @06:02PM (#34716880)
Seek help.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by Luc on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @02:45PM (#34713770)
Indeed, and less tech savvy people could just hand their phone to any teenager crushed nearby to do it for them.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by prh8 on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @02:48PM (#34713819)
"it's not too hard to do something you have no knowledge about, while being in shock and survival mode from extreme trauma both physical and mental"

use critical thinking for like 2 seconds

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by jnsaff2 on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @03:34PM (#34714609)
Let them eat cake.

How I miss n gate.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by therealmocker on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @05:02PM (#34716002)
Post reads surprisingly like an auto generated ad for NordVPN
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by xwdv on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @08:06PM (#34718292)
One of the new business models enabled by AI in the next decade would work by installing a plug-in into your browser that lets ChatGPT insert organic advertisements into your post when it detects the opportunity, and you get paid depending on what the advertisers have bid and the site you are posting on.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by rayiner on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @09:51AM (#34708764)
When you use quotes around “Democratic” do you mean the elections are rigged? I’m not familiar with the legitimacy or lack thereof of Turkish elections.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by bbor on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @10:07AM (#34709025)
It’s not quite Russia levels of vote fakery, but rather similar to many other backsliding democracies - the incumbent is credibly accused of using their influence to insure victory. See “controversies” on this page, which describes the election where they modified the constitution to give erdogan completely unchecked power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Turkish_presidential_elec...

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by rayiner on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @02:02PM (#34712995)
The subject of that referendum—abolishing indirect election of the president and moving to direct election—is something that people want in America. And the close result on the referendum seems to match opinion polling.

Maybe the referendum was rigged, I don’t know. But centralizing more power in the executive, if that’s what the people want, isn’t necessarily anti democratic.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by bbor on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @06:28PM (#34717222)
I know “checks and balances” aren’t exactly written in stone by the Athenians, but they seem like an objectively good idea - I’d argue that any attempt to remove them is anti-democratic in a pragmatic sense. See: the situation in Israel as Netanyahu attempts to consolidate power away from the judiciary to protect himself from corruption charges. Also see: “ turkey accounts for 1/3 of the world’s imprisoned journalists”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Turkey

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by three14 on Thursday February 09, 2023 @05:18AM (#34721932)
The real story in Israel is more complicated; the courts have taken power from the other branches; it's about time for there to be some kind of correction, and is often the case, the rebound might very well go too far in the other direction, ruining the possibility of a real system of checks and balances. Netanyahu himself may be going along with it to penalize the courts, but it's unlikely to help his court cases directly. The idea that it's supposed to somehow magically help him is a talking point for some of the political parties, but he would probably need some kind of new legislation to grant him immunity.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by Dalewyn on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @07:31PM (#34717929)
>is something that people want in America.

Speak for yourself; as someone who understands what (note: what, not who) POTUS represents and why the Electoral College even exists, I hope our system does not change for vapid reasons.

Direct election of POTUS across state lines is going to reduce democracy, not increase it.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by BWStearns on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @10:15AM (#34709163)
https://www.economist.com/special-report/2016/02/04/getting-...

Erdogan famously remarked: "Democracy is like a train, he said; you get off once you have reached your destination"

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by anticensor on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @10:04AM (#34708967)
One incident even featured a pre-filled ballot indicating a vote for then-ruling parties.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by gumby on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @10:29AM (#34709377)
Decades ago one of my profs described his voting experience in the USSR: they had a completely private (“Australian”) voting system where you picked up a ballot, entered a private voting booth, filled out the ballot, then deposited it in the urn.

Or you could pick up a ballot pre-filled-in with the straight communist ticket to save time and just put it straight in the urn. Naturally anyone in the room could see which you chose.

Perhaps more amusingly: he was an exchange student at the time (late 60s?). Because communism was a universal movement anyone could vote, so he thought, “well why not while I have the chance?”

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by can16358p on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @10:06AM (#34709001)
They are not elected democratically, and they are not deciding on anything democratically, even though it is "democratic" on paper.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by aintgonnatakeit on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @10:26AM (#34709317)
Erdogan is a fascist thug. He’s jailed most of his opposition.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by remind_me_again on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @10:07AM (#34709015)
It's a very subjective judgement and everyone is entitled his or her own opinion. But that one is very biased. As far as elections concerned Turkish election system is very solid as a process and implementation is solid. In the end Erdogan lost Istanbul in the last elections even after that election repeated for only Istanbul, and worse for Erdogan, the second round was much more decisive. People didn't like the election were repeated.

Also, don't fall to the expressions like, "Turkish here", "German there". These does not make anyone expert nor without bias.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by brian_cloutier on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @10:30AM (#34709392)
To give everyone an idea of how solid the process is: consider that the opposition candidate widely considered most capable of beating the incumbent president was recently sentenced to two years in jail and removed from politics on the weakest of pretenses: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Ekrem_%C4%B0mamo%C4...

Here are a few other biased sources offering their subjective judgements:

- https://freedomhouse.org/country/turkey/freedom-world/2022

- https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/turkeys-local-elections-wer...

- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_fraud_and_violence...

- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

- https://www.idea.int/democracytracker/report/turkey/december...

This is not to say that Turkey is full autocracy: the incubent president has a genuinely large amount of support and it's quite possible they would win a free and fair election. However, the upcoming election will not be free and fair as those terms are commonly understood.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by arp242 on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @01:54PM (#34712880)
> This is not to say that Turkey is full autocracy: the incubent president has a genuinely large amount of support and it's quite possible they would win a free and fair election.

This is kind of skewed though, if people can't go on TV or Twitter and say "Erdogan doesn't know what he's doing and his policies are foolish".

This is really the modern autocrat's secret weapon: have reasonably(-ish) fair(-ish) elections, but also rig things in such a way that people only hear one side of the story. It's not a surprise people support Erdogan if they only hear how brilliant he is with tepid criticism at best. Control the narrative → control the vote. Ergodan, Putin, Xi all play by this book.

Having a free press and free investigative journalism is critical; without it you don't really have fair elections, even if the actual business of casting and counting ballots is sound and free of fraud.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by toyg on Thursday February 09, 2023 @04:34AM (#34721628)
> This is really the modern autocrat's secret weapon

Hardly: Mussolini also had some sort of elections. It just happened that parliamentarians who were too much of a nuisance had unfortunate encounters with groups of hard batons, or were required to live on remote islands. In Putin's Russia they fall from balconies.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by toyg on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @10:25AM (#34709306)
Erdogan literally imprisons any opposition leader who comes close to be an actual challenger. He's done it twice already in the last 7 years.

It's just not funny anymore. Some people in Turkey might enjoy living under a dictator (after all, many did in Italy and Germany, and many do in a lot of other countries today), but let's not pretend that water is not wet.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by aiProgMach on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @10:43AM (#34709594)
> Also, don't fall to the expressions like, "Turkish here", "German there". These does not make anyone expert nor without bias.

Exactly! I'm from another global south country. Usually when someone on these sites say "${their_country} here" I prepare myself for the worst takes because I know this happens in my country, usually it's some liberal who read/work in western leaning media and repeat what they hear. It's an echo chamber so huge that you can't touch it's walls so it's hard to know you actually live in an echo chamber.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by can16358p on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @11:16AM (#34710190)
Your downvotes speak for themselves.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by wgjordan on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @11:19AM (#34710253)
For one nonpartisan quantitative analysis, Freedom House gave Turkey a 32/100 ("not free") score on its 2022 global freedom scale [1].

[1] https://freedomhouse.org/country/turkey/freedom-world/2022

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by xyzzyz on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @04:01PM (#34715078)
Isn’t freedom house the same one who in 2020 gave top scores to countries that literally arrested people for walking around outside? That forbade people from running their businesses and customers from hiring their services?

All of these restrictions on freedom might have been introduced for good reason according to some people, but they very much have been introduced, and very much restricted freedom, so if those don’t count according to freedom house, I can scarcely consider this “quantitative nonpartisan analysis” to be worth much.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by dalbasal on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @01:27PM (#34712445)
Not (AFAIK) the elections, but everything else. Highly restricted media (many journalists in jail) and now social media. Many opposition leaders, judges jailed, exiled or otherwise "purged." Over 100k of them. Constant fiddling with the constitution and election system to increase his own power.

"Democracy," in the sense that refers to the democratic systems of government in existence, is a bundle. Elections without free press, expression, freedom to organize and such... That's no longer "democracy" in that sense of the term.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by ycombinete on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @01:46PM (#34712753)
free and fair elections require more than votes being tallied faithfully. They need all the other facets of democracy to function faithfully as well. Such as a free press, freedom of expression, etc.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by TylerLives on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @09:52AM (#34708774)
Is there anything specific about Twitter here, or is it just the most popular? I don't see why they couldn't do the same on Facebook, Telegram or some other platform.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by ejb999 on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @10:00AM (#34708900)
probably because other social media sites have already proven time and time again they are happy to weaponize their platforms against a population if the leaders of that country ask them too.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by foronetimeonly1 on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @10:45AM (#34709630)
The Diyanet said "Do not look to social media for hope in finding loved ones, look to Allah". A few minutes later twitter was blocked. I think god is jealous of Twitter today.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by efnx on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @01:48PM (#34712789)
…so do nothing and forget about them in other words?
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by kamaal on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @09:17PM (#34718915)
There's a joke that goes like this.

There's a man who gets warning that his village is about to be flooded and he gets a warning he needs to evacuate immediately. He says he places his trust in god and decides to wait for god's help. A while later a tractor comes by and asks him if wants a ride out of the village, he tells them he places his trust his god to rescue them and tells them goodbye. A while later a bunch of cow herders and asks if wants a walk out of the village, he tells them .. trust.. god. Now water begins to come into the village. He climbs to the top of a hillock. A while later a few people arrive in a boat and ask him if we wants a ride out of the village, he tells them .. trust .. god. A while later he dies and then complains to god about help not arriving. God asks what else but help was the warning, tractor, cow herders and boat were?

There's a joke in here that Twitter is how God wants to help.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by OulaX on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @10:45AM (#34709631)
The networks are already overloaded, introducing a VPN into the mix might even make them unusable for some people!

Unfortunately, this is a tragic situation.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by blagie on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @10:53AM (#34709778)
Off-topic: Do most people there prefer "Türkiye" or "Turkey?"
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by tradertef on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @11:42AM (#34710661)
As a Turk, I do not trust people who are using Turkiye in English. That is virtue signaling which is saying they are populist, nationalist etc. etc. I also find the change idiotic at the least though I understand why they did it.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by macintux on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @12:08PM (#34711097)
When working with people of different nationalities and ethnicities I emphasize trying to pronounce their names correctly. Why is this different?
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by s1artibartfast on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @12:33PM (#34711545)
Not a Turk here, but I'm guessing it is equivalent to using latinx or Latin@. It is a signal that you are from a bubble that is out of touch with your intended audience. Most Latin people don't use these terms and don't put together really care for them, so it signals that you are more aligned with a third-party then with Latin people.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by jordigh on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @12:24PM (#34711397)
Because it's a nationalistic thing to insist that all languages spell your country's name in the script and spelling of the source language. It's a stupid move by the Erdogan government to get people to stop thinking about türkiye birds when they think of the Turkey country. Other countries get by just fine.

Germany, Alemania, Deutschland.

Mexico, Messico, Méjico.

Japan, Nippon, 日本.

China, Zhōngguó, 中国.

Every country gets by getting called different things in different languages. But Turkey insisting on the spelling just because they don't want to be associated to türkiye birds, where the birds are literally named after the country, is a silly move designed to stir nationalistic pride for their near totalitarian government.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by pcardoso on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @06:16PM (#34717070)
One funny thing is that in Portuguese the word for turkey (the bird) is Perú… also the same word as the South American country. Turkey is Turquia though…
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by thaumasiotes on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @06:52PM (#34717525)
> Turkey is Turquia though…

The bird is named after a series of misconceptions, with different results in different places.

The country is named after the Turks; you expect it to be the same everywhere.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by blagie on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @12:26PM (#34711435)
That's not always the right thing to do.

I'm from a language where you'll never get it right, and most people are pragmatic and don't care about names being the way our mothers do. That's a very Western thing.

Forcing us to try to teach you our language, or half-way butcherings, are considered obnoxious. Go with the English pronunciation. Do anything half-reasonable-sounding, and it's okay too. Don't visibly struggle each time you try to say my name.

For my name specifically, there's also an uncanny valley phenomenon. My name pronounced obviously wrong by an American doesn't raise flags. Americans mispronouncing my native name sounds horribly wrong.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by Kiro on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @12:35PM (#34711584)
What? If you would try to say my country's name in my native language instead of the English version when speaking English I would think you were a nutcase.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by dzhiurgis on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @03:04PM (#34714074)
It might depend on country or person, but my name is already very hard to pronounce, asking me 2 or 3 times just prolongs the embarrassment
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by freehorse on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @05:00PM (#34715975)
I find that impossible to achieve and believe others do. I have no expectation people getting my name right because, apart from other reasons, it contains sounds that do not exist in many standard languages. It would literally require training one to be able to produce new sounds, and that is just not practical at all, not to mention outright impossible for many to do accurately. I guess it is good to try to pronounce things good enough, but "correctly" I doubt.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by radicaldreamer on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @12:29PM (#34711476)
US State Dept has started using Türkiye for its communications...
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by tradertef on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @12:57PM (#34711953)
Governments are different as they legally have to do it.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by s1artibartfast on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @01:52PM (#34712845)
I don't think it's illegal requirement, they just choose to respect the wishes of the receiving government.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by geysersam on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @12:58PM (#34711985)
Of course. The will (and should) use the name the country officially defines to be the correct one. Why would they refuse and cause a diplomatic fuss over such a trivial thing?
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by jlundberg on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @03:09PM (#34714157)
This is AFAIK a result of trying to get Erdogan to accept the NATO application from Sweden and Finland.

NATO head Jens Stoltenberg started saying Turkey but then changed to Türkiye before the big NATO summit in Madrid last summer.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by trogdor on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @06:43PM (#34717427)
Interesting. From the State Department:

"Note: The official conventional long-form and short-form names remain “Republic of Turkey” and “Turkey”, respectively. “Republic of Türkiye” should be used in formal and diplomatic contexts. The conventional names may be used in place of or alongside “Türkiye” in appropriate instances, including U.S. government cartographic products, as it is more widely understood by the American public."

Source: https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-turkey/

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by agtech_andy on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @12:46PM (#34711755)
I do agriculture stuff in Turkey. This has been a useful heuristic. I estimate that 90% of the people I have faced who get angry or make a big deal about this are bureaucrats who didn't get into their position by merit.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by dzhiurgis on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @02:58PM (#34713966)
Aotearoa New Zealand will be same
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by can16358p on Thursday February 09, 2023 @12:05AM (#34719990)
This is nothing about trust. I'm using the officially declared word to describe the country. Nothing to do with ideology or views.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by Shocka1 on Thursday February 09, 2023 @12:23PM (#34727499)
Serious question here. As someone with closer ties to the Middle East than me, how do you look at people who pronounce Iraq correctly, as "Ih-rahk," compared to the usual American pronunciation, "Eye-rack"?

As someone who was in that country for a year all over the place with a rifle attached to my chest, Americans always ask me about my exciting vacation there. As an American convervative myself, people's heads are blown whether the are left or right leaning when I pronounce it as "Ih-rahk." At this point I find the reactions fairly comical and get a kick out of experimenting on people, much to the dismay of my wife, who thinks I should just go with "Eye-rack" to stop embarrassing her.

By the way, I pronounce Turkey as like a Thanksgiving "Turkey."

Anecdotally I was told once upon a time by a first generation immigrant from Oman that you should pronounce a countries name as they pronounce it, as a respect thing. I thought more about it, and if I heard someone say United States as "Ooonited States," I wouldn't care one bit, but there really is only one way to pronounce the United States it so it's not really a fair comparison.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by alex3305 on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @11:05AM (#34709991)
There was an official name change [1] to Türkiye.

1. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/6/2/un-registers-turkiye...

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by blagie on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @11:14AM (#34710160)
I'm very well aware of that.

Whenever I've been on the receiving end of a name change like that, I (and everyone I knew) found it obnoxious.

However, cultures differ. Turkey has a long history with name changes, and has been rather aggressive about them. When it became "Turkey," the post office wouldn't deliver mail unless the new name was used. Likewise, the capital has gone through two names since "Byzantium."

I was genuinely curious about local reaction. I have no idea, from the other end of the world, whether this was imposed by Erdogan as a crazy policy to everyone's annoyance, or whether it is wildly popular. I assume somewhere in between.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by dkural on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @11:45AM (#34710712)
You sound like you're 800 years old.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by kevin_thibedeau on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @11:47AM (#34710751)
They got fed up with Google search returning stuff about birds.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by aendruk on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @01:01PM (#34712019)
Who is “they”?
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by ThePowerOfFuet on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @11:38AM (#34710601)
>> Off-topic: Do most people there prefer "Türkiye" or "Turkey?"

> There was an official name change [1] to Türkiye.

That absolutely does not answer the question, and you know that.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by msm_ on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @11:59AM (#34710951)
> Erdogan released a memorandum and asked the public to use Türkiye to describe the country in every language

I wonder how that works. Does Eredrogan expect every country to write and say "Türkiye? Does it work the other way around - can Germany change their official name in Turkey/Türkiye to "Deutschland"?

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by boomboomsubban on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @12:50PM (#34711829)
>Does it work the other way around - can Germany change their official name in Turkey/Türkiye to "Deutschland"?

Probably not in the same way, as Turkish is not a UN official language. They could request their name be changed in English, French, Spanish, Russian, Chinese, or Arabic though.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by numpad0 on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @03:15PM (#34714270)
The problem is, the bird is supposedly named after the country, and that if the country had changed/clarified its name, so should the bird, against Turkish intent.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by nextaccountic on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @11:07AM (#34710017)
In some years, this will become a non-issue
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by blagie on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @11:17AM (#34710198)
It will become a non-issue once all keyboards have a "ü" button. :)

Which might not actually be that long.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by Cyph0n on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @11:44AM (#34710696)
Why is everyone focused on the umlaut? If you don’t have the button, use a “u” and move on.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by sk0g on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @11:57AM (#34710906)
The umlauted u is not just a u with some visual flair. "ue" instead would be a more accurate transliteration, but Tuerkiye looks... awkward.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by Cyph0n on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @01:51PM (#34712826)
Got it, but I’m saying that using “Turkiye” is better than using “Turkey”.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by weberer on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @12:23PM (#34711378)
They are completely different letters. You'd be misspelling it.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by Cyph0n on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @01:50PM (#34712812)
Context matters. Is it better to use Turkey then?
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by blagie on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @12:04PM (#34711041)
Things like text search and exact string matching.

As minor as it might sound, if 199/200 countries work in your system, capitalism dictates that below a certain business size, the logical thing is often to just ignore the one country and move on.

These things have odd cascading effects.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by msm_ on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @12:09PM (#34711111)
I have good news for you - text search for non-ascii version of latin characters like ü is a long solved problem. That's because even in non-english speaking countries some people don't bother with diacritics, or they don't have a correct layout at that point, or the text is in source code and has to be ASCII, etc.

You can try that now - my browser highlights Türkiye when I search for Turkiye.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by blagie on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @12:23PM (#34711384)
Great! Now do a JOIN in a database with Türkiye in one column and Turkiye in another.

It's a problem with well-known solutions. That's not the same as a solved problem.

It will be a solved problem when processing a log file in /var/log with Python (or any other tool of choice), it works automatically.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by mensetmanusman on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @11:54PM (#34719923)
Because it’s hilarious to try to force the english speaking world to pronounce a name with letters they don’t have.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by msm_ on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @12:06PM (#34711057)
That's not a keyboard issue. Everyone in my country uses a standard US keyboard, we just press AlgGr to type some characters. I even learned some foreign lanugages, so I use a (standard, included by default in every linux distro) keyboard layout that allows me to type most characters used in European languages by using chords - for example, alt-shift-2 + u = ü.

So this is not a keyboard (hardware) problem, just a keyboard layout (software) problem.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by LarryMullins on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @12:12PM (#34711184)
> standard US keyboard, we just press AlgGr

Standard US English keyboards don't have AltGr. But you may mean ctrl+alt on windows or the 'option' button on macs.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by Sunspark on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @03:28PM (#34714497)
It's the right-alt key. If you're using a layout that defines AltGr, the key will just work like that on a US keyboard. Even with just the US keyboard layout, the right-Alt key can still be used with numbers in Windows to type any unicode character.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by d110af5ccf on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @06:57PM (#34717586)
> If you're using a layout that defines AltGr

Which the parent was pointing out is nonstandard. There is no alt-gr key on a standard US keyboard. You can certainly remap alt-right to alt-gr but that is nonstandard and doing so does not mean that the key exists on the physical keyboard.

For example my caps lock key is mapped to ctrl-left. That is nonstandard.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by blagie on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @07:38PM (#34718004)
You're wrong:

* Pick any European keymap under Ubuntu, Windows, or Mac with your US keyboard * Hold right-alt and press a key

You'll get something like ń or ą.

Bonus: Under Ubuntu, you might also have other keys remapped to let you type things like x²≠¼.

Bonus hack: Add a Greek keymap, and you can even get to things like Δx = π·y with an alt-space in between.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by account42 on Thursday February 09, 2023 @04:18AM (#34721509)
AFAIK neither Windows nor X11 have a concept of an AltGr key - it's just the right alt key so there is nothing to remap. The only difference between US and european layouts is its use as a modifier key.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by sk0g on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @11:54AM (#34710861)
I still read Czechoslovakia every now and then instead of Czechia, and it has been a few decades since they split off now.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by jordigh on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @12:19PM (#34711313)
Erdogan wants English to use the Turkish spelling because he's tired of English speakers thinking of the bird when they're talking about the country.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MyNaymeIs

The funny thing is that through a bunch of funny historical accidents, the bird is literally named after the country, so we could just spell the birds türkiyes too.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by GauntletWizard on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @05:40PM (#34716596)
* * *
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by sillytr on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @06:12PM (#34717004)
Why not be more explicit?

Turks call India "Hindi-stan". Which in Turkish is "Turkey-the-bird-stan". Including the Persian etymology would literally make it "Land of the Turkeys." If Modi wanted to pick a fight with Turkey it would have made for an entertaining UN session.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by mrtksn on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @04:00PM (#34715056)
I don't like using Turkiye in English, it sounds out of place to me. I'm native Turkish speaker.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by ikeserbestian on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @05:13PM (#34716173)
Turkey, "Türkiye" is just another useless show from the "president".
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by OkayPhysicist on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @07:51PM (#34718148)
It's going to matter who you ask, but as a foreigner you're more likely to be talking to someone (relatively well-off, educated enough to have fluent English, probably not a fan of Erdoğan) who'd have preferred it to stay Turkey.

It's just another step in the trend of undoing Atatürk's reforms that has defined the current regime. To summarize a lot of history, the foundation of modern Turkey was a pretty massive upheaval. Atatürk (the first president of Turkey, and is viewed pretty similarly to the US's founding fathers) worked pretty damn hard to drag the country away from its Ottoman roots and towards being a Western, secular, country. Under the Ottomans, the head of church and head of state were the same person, under Atatürk, church and state were separated. Atatürk's government outright banned the wear of most religious garb in public, such as fez's and headscarves. Women were given full rights. The entire alphabet was changed from an Arabic script to a Latin one. And these are just the big ones I can pull off the top of my head.

Basically, imagine if George Washington had banned crucifixes from being displayed in public and switched the US's alphabet to Cyrillic.

It is impossible to overstate how radical these reforms were, and most were intended to bring Turkey closer to Europe both economically and culturally. The following 85 years of Turkey's history, up to the modern day, has been marked by tensions between those that generally like the reforms, and would like to see Turkey continue towards being a well-respected member of the West, and the conservative faction who want Turkey to backslide into an Islamic theocracy.

The name change is one of many postures Erdoğan has taken to distance himself from the former group, and amounts to a dog-whistle for the second.

TL;DR: It's whole fucking can of worms.

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by Mortiffer on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @11:46AM (#34710734)
Also a lot of the big VPN brands are blocked so its hard for a regular person to get one. I recently helped someone out to get one required us to iterate through a number of providers each time me sending them the binary over signal so they can try it out. Spoiler: mullvad vpn was first to go through
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by anthk on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @06:05PM (#34716915)
If you use a smartphone, get Briar from FDroid. It works over Bluetooth/Wifi/Data and it's perfect for emergencies.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by dividedbyzero on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @07:39PM (#34718012)
It's not available for iOS and you can only communicate with others who have it installed (which realistically will be next to no one). I wouldn't call that "perfect for emergencies".
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by anthk on Thursday February 09, 2023 @06:27AM (#34722398)
THe rest of the world it's mostly Android based.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by dividedbyzero on Thursday February 09, 2023 @07:50AM (#34723182)
IIRC a quarter of all active smartphones are iPhones globally. I'm not in the US, lots and lots of iPhones in circulation here. Also, no Briar on nearly all of those Androids, so they're just as reachable as iPhones.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by anthk on Thursday February 09, 2023 @09:32AM (#34724456)
The APK can be fetched from FDroid and be shared over Bluetooth sharing. On iPhones, sorry, but Europe it's basically Androidlandia.
Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by dividedbyzero on Saturday February 11, 2023 @07:15AM (#34751682)
> The APK can be fetched from FDroid and be shared over Bluetooth sharing.

And people are supposed to just figure that out while under rubble?

> Europe it's basically Androidlandia.

Only Eastern Europe. Western Europe (incl Germany) and the Nordics have between 30-60% iPhones. [0] Also Albania, for some reason.

That's also pretty much the browser distribution you get when looking at analytics data from various European countries, and it matches what I see people use here (Germany).

0: https://mezha.media/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/iPhone_Europe...

Re:Turkey blocks Twitter after the earthquake by anthk on Sunday February 12, 2023 @06:37AM (#34762059)
Well, I'm from Spain and I can perfectly say that Spain, Portugal, France and Italy are not an iPhone domain by a huge margin.