I moved to coastal state where it was legal. Now it's all hydroponically grown, all female and all seedless. I was a daily user for about 12 years and had to completely stop using it. It would always help my stomach if I had stomach problems, but eventually I had stomach problems daily and the only fix was more weed. It turns out the weed was the cause of and solution to all my problems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid_hyperemesis_syndro...

I've tried to quit cannabis several times now, but usually break down after a week or so when the night sweats and nightmares set in. I've been able to mostly get things under control by avoiding all concentrates and daily doses of nortryptiline and protonix, but quitting entirely is turning out to be really hard for me.

Reduce daily intake by X% every week. If a given step down ends up being too painful you just go back to the previous one for another week and then try a smaller step next time. Optimum X varies by drug but I’m sure there are recommendations specific for cannabis out there.

It sounds like you have the desire to make a change, with persistence and the right technique you can definitely make it happen.

So I buy from people that have been doing it for decades and smoke their own stuff as QC.

If it’s too strong smoke less, but clean cannabis is the solution for that.

The other thing you can do is switch to concentrates. This also makes it easier to quit because you know how much you're taking in so you can slowly taper down.

Concentrates are something I treat myself to just a few times a year. Everything in moderation… including the occasional excess.

I've always liked that quote as I have seen it over and over again in people I know. Those that can use and moderate to just a recreational use vs committing to a full on daily use (addiction by most acceptable use) is very small. I love to partake when I have the time and lack of responsibilities requiring all of my faculties. But when I've tried the daily use and watched my capabilities diminish has shown me that I'm not fully functional with that daily use so I just keep it in the recreational realm. From my 100% unschooled medical perspective, those that think they are 100% with daily use are just lying to themselves.

I go through intentional withdrawal every N months to reduce my tolerance. I tend to keep the dose as low as possible. Sometimes I fail, sometimes I do not. I might buy that box that has a lock with a timer on it or something. ^^

I do not consider myself a junkie just because I am dependent on it, similarly how people are not junkies for depending on beta-blockers. They need it, and I need it too. It just happens to be something some people tend to abuse. Well, I do not wish to suffer because of them. Again, I do not get high, I do not get any of those feelings that would make me crave it. Many people might, but many people do not have the same medical condition as I do, I guess.

As I said, I am not "100% with daily use". I sometimes fail at controlling the dose, because sometimes my issues are worse, but... I wish I did not have to depend on it. It fucking sucks. I do not want to depend on it, but I have tried every psychiatric medications there is during my years... None of them helped one bit. I had no idea that what I am taking would work either, I stumbled upon it by accident. Again, I wish I did not need this, but I am afraid I will die taking it unless they find a proper treatment or cure for what I have. But yeah... it sucks. I could talk about it more, like how I cannot even get out of bed and do my damn job without it and such, but welp.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/23/well/mind/teens-thc-canna...

See also:

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/21665-cannabi...

If you read their comment a little closer, you will see that they do not.

>I have never been addicted to anything so its hard for me to relate

If you have no experience, why are you giving advice?

It is incredibly frustrating that every single time I've shared the situation in, some jerk chimes in with their preconceptions, often without even reading the information put in front of them.

For instance my last trip to the E.R was the first in a few months. During triage the nurse confirms their existing records that Droperidol is the only medication I'm known to have a negative reaction to -- something that is documented, because multiple times in the same E.R, Droperidol has caused every muscle in my body to go twitchy. My chart indicates the Ativan/Reglan/Pepcid cocktail consistently works. P.A. comes into the room, first thing he asks is why I'm still smoking cannabis. He follows that up with orders for fluids and... Droperidol. Tells me he doesn't want to go the Ativan route because it can be habit forming and I'm already an addict. I spend the next couple hours twitching in addition to puking, until shift change, when the doctor who took over finally hit me with the right set of meds.

And yes, I've been trying to get the mental health assistance I need. Unfortunately it is spectacularly difficult to find help unless you're either rich or destitute.

I don't like eating due to very long ramp up and it last for too long for casual evening, it may be great summer weekend festival item.

What I want to say - even most potent oil vapes regardless of sativa/indica/cbd mix, it was just about dosage. 1 hit was a pleasant light trip, 2 was a nice strong one, 3 really strong but manageable for simple stuff. I once had 6 draws while walking in village & forest - I really went far away form this reality, hypnotizing street lights, dancing on empty streets. Couldn't trust myself which normally never ever happens on weed. It ended up OK somehow but oh boy beware.

If one doesn't have any self control, it may cause issue - till it hits you fully (which is cca 5 mins with vape oil, unlike ie joint/pipe which is almost immediate), you may have already taken too much. But that would be the problem with hard alcohol too, there its more like 30 mins and we all have seen enough shitfaced folks in our lives who took too many shots too fast.

So education, explanation - potency, indica/sativa mixing, literally learning consumption of cannabis and products. Its not complex but it ain't primitive linear alcohol 'high' (or more like low) regardless of type of drink.

I still consider oil vapes the best product for me, chirurgically precise amount of high, very convenient, and very reproducible once you are familiar with given strain.

Yeah, but at least their body will jolt them into stopping. The absolute worst vommiting I had in my life was thanks to alcohol. Often after a night of getting wasted I don't want to touch alcohol again for a while.

This was impossible before with just cigarettes [1], which only had a 'lite' option which I doubt had any less nicotine. The only option was to quit. Weening off via 5mg is way easier.

[1] Besides maybe the nicotine gum which is even grosser

Picking a salt liquid at random, this one lets you go down to 1mg, since they probably add the nicotine to a 0mg product:

https://www.dashvapes.com/products/e-juice/24/grappleberry+i...

Disposables are usually 5% salts over here, afaik.

Perhaps there's been resistance to talking about this much because it's a new freedom and consumers are afraid too much criticism could lead to that freedom being yanked back away. However, I have noticed more conversation about finding the right level of CBD... so I think your instinct may not be far off.

> without any clear guidelines or regulations from government officials, the cannabis industry has taken a page from the tobacco and alcohol industries’ play book and developed strains of marijuana and concentrated marijuana products with much higher concentrations of THC, the psychoactive component that causes addiction. The more potent a drug is, the stronger the possibility of addiction and the more likely the person will continue to purchase and use the product.

Doesn't seem like there's any incentive to reduce potency.

Nothing in your article tackles my main point though?

> the cannabis industry has taken a page from the tobacco and alcohol industries’ play book

As a slightly off-topic aside: tobacco I'm less familiar with (I wasn't aware of efforts by the industry to grow strains of the plants with higher nicotine content but it seems unsurprising), but including alcohol here is bizarre. Alcohol isn't naturally occurring in harvested produce - it's an output from a process. And even then, maybe they're talking about distillation, but that process predates the industrial revolution by 100s maybe 1000s of years.

Tbh this throwaway statement kinda makes me question the article...

Ethanol is naturally occurring.

That said, I agree that including alcohol here is bizarre. As far as I can tell there has never been a monotonic increase in ABV; instead, there is a large selection ranging from high alcohol content to even alcohol-free (which is so unpopular in the US as to be barely worth mentioning, but quite popular in Germany, and I'm now seeing large and even regional breweries in the US produce AF versions of their most popular beers).

> Unless they're talking about distillation

Most alcoholic beverages are made through some sort of distillation process, so I'm not sure what difference you're alluding to here.

How do you define “most”? - but I’m pretty sure non-distilled/non-fortified alcoholic beverages (wine/beer/etc) make up more of the alcoholic beverage market (whether in litres or dollars) than distilled/fortified beverages. I think they also are a lot more if you were to count SKUs (number of varieties of non-fortified wines/beers/etc > spirits/liqueurs/fortified wines/etc)

My brain organizes things as "beer, wine, and alcohol (aka spirits)" as opposed to "alcohol, including beer and wine". And an "alcoholic beverage" is just either a spirit alone or a spirit mixed with something.

Probably because that's how my state organizes the stores (with wine/alcohol in separate stores from beer, so if you say "we need to buy beer" that means going to a different place than "we need to by alcohol").

(FWIW I'm a native US English speaker.)

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/liqueur

> a usually sweetened alcoholic liquor (such as brandy) flavored with fruit, spices, nuts, herbs, or seeds

vs liquor

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/liquor

> a usually distilled rather than fermented alcoholic beverage

see https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/amaretto

> an almond-flavored liqueur

and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limoncello

> Limoncello (Italian pronunciation: [limonˈtʃɛlːo]) is an Italian lemon liqueur mainly produced in Southern Italy

Most alcoholic beverages (beers, wines) are not distilled - distillation is typically only used to take a drink above the 20-30% ABV mark (spirit / liquor).

That's... decidedly not true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95DPkPW5_PE

> That's... decidedly not true.

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95DPkPW5_PE [link to video of animals becoming intoxicated on rotting fruit]

I'm confused. Perhaps you read this as "isn't"?

Fermentation is a natural process. Alcohol naturally occurs in overripe fruits. Humans first discovered it by accident - fruit juices or grain-water mixtures left out would become alcoholic. In fact, non-fresh non-alcoholic fruit juice only became a product in modern times, because it was only in the modern period we developed the technology to stop the natural process of fermentation.

That said, natural fermentation (without distillation) can only get you up to 18% ABV - beyond that, it poisons the yeast and they stop producing alcohol. To go higher you need distillation/fortification.

I think national regulation around standard strength, doses, labeling, etc. could help here in a way that legalization (or decriminalization) at a smaller level can't.

Not sure what form you buy your weed in, but typically reducing the dose is not as straightforward as it would be with, e.g. a powdered or liquid product.

> national regulation [...] could help here in a way that legalization [...] can't.

I'm not sure I follow - are you proposing regulation in addition to legalization, or instead of? I don't really understand how the latter would work (or why they would/should be mutually exclusive) but maybe I'm just misinterpreting?

I also don’t understand this argument because you can just take 1 hit and be done. No one is forcing you to finish a whole joint. Should liquor be outlawed because it is stronger than beer?

The increased THC concentration compared to other psychoactive chemicals seems to produce more paranoia and other negative effects in some people, so it's not just a strength issue. The effect is different if the proportion of THC to CBD increases.

It's also easier to get more THC than you intended if you're consuming stronger stuff.

> Should liquor be outlawed because it is stronger than beer?

If spirits are legal then people should at least have the choice of drinking beer.

Better to have a much wider variety of potencies available, like we have with alcohol. Especially for the casual users who have been ignored by the market because traditional dealers get most of their money from heavy users, and heavy users want the chronic.

I've sometimes wondered if legalizing and/or regulating edibles and smoked products separately should be done with THC. No one expects alcohol and tobacco to follow the same rules. It could prevent some issues for casual users.

To be fair, in regions that have legalized it the dispensaries seem to have voluntarily organized around the idea naturally anyway: dispensaries I've been to generally are good at explaining the relative safety of edibles to potential casual users and edibles seem to make up a larger portion of their business in general.

Use a good vaporizer or a cheap glass pipe.

"Use a good vaporizer or a cheap glass pipe."

You do realize that a lot of people don't really know how to use those devices, right?

Why anyone would argue against more variety of weed with better labelling is way beyond my comprehension.

It does not take a rocket scientists to use those devices, but if the average people is really that dumb, then we should seriously take control of their lives if we want them to be contributing to society (because that's what seems to matter the most, right?).

Plus I doubt that many, THAT dumb people who have not touched weed would start doing it out of nowhere.

You: HELL NO

WTF, really?

Not that it matters, recreational stores solve this problem entirely.

I am in agreement with that. If they voluntarily pick the higher potency for their first time, let them experience how shitty it can be.

Also to people with higher tolerance a joint IS like a beer. THC tolerance builds slowly but lasts a very long time unlike alcohol (anecdotally).

Can you imagine how many problems would be solved if people could stop after 1? But you are fighting evolution, and the compulsion for more is extremely strong in myriad areas.

And for what it’s worth, you can’t get Everclear in my state.

Anyways, I'm asking because I unfortunately live in a state where it's still illegal.

Shortly after it became legal (speaking for WA only here), it felt like every manufacturer chased the highest THC first.

Many years after, we now have the other side gaining a large presence. All sorts of things from high thc to 50/50 blend thc/cbd to high cbd/almost no thc concentrates. I can confirm that it isn't just a marketing bs, tried one of those low thc/high cbd carts before, and it didnt give me the feeling of high almost at all, even after about 10 hits (normally, 1-2 hits of a typical thc cart is plenty enough for me to feel it strongly and be done).

Low thc stuff is getting very high presence/prevalence among users and in advertising as well, it isnt reserved for the backshelf as "oh yeah, if regular stuff is too strong for you, we got a shelf in the back just for lighter stuff." It is sold and presented (in marketing and among customers) equivalently to how beers are sold in terms of varying percentages. Some like 4-5% alcohol, some like 7-8%, others prefer imperial versions (typically 9-11%), etc, but there is no "this is the one type of beer for everyone, the rest is just weaker/stronger alternatives."

However, I've only noticed this type of a push for promotion and popularity gain of less-thc-strong oils at dispensaries start gaining momentum only since around 2019. However, that area has been growing heavily and feels larger than ever now, so I can only see it gaining more footing in the future.

Here is a hemp seller that sells strains that don't have enough THC to be classified as cannabis: https://holycityfarms.com/product-category/flower/

The only solution I have found is to buy gummies and cut them up into smaller doses. I’ve found a local company that does a hybrid (sativa/indica) gummy and I vastly prefer them to the unspecified gummies which tend to be stronger than I am looking for.

I’m tempted to get seeds for a low THC strain but I’m not such a connoisseur as to make that a priority.

It was very typical to see older folks and very light smokers to request the smaller dosages. They also seemed to trend towards vapes in the younger lighter smokers because the dosage can be fairly small.

They don't show up in dispensaries much, because why go through all the hassle to meet regulations on a product which doesn't have to meet those regulations, unless they're being sold at a dispensary?

Even before my state legalized, I hadn't run into anything besides high grade strains in years. I imagine it would be really hard to find low quality weed anywhere in the US at this point.

Depends on the state, even among those where weed is legal. WA has a pretty terrible duality - buying is very easy, and i like how that part was handled. Growing your own recreationally (i.e., not as a registered producer/manufacturer)? Not allowed at all, unless you are a medical user, and you are limited to only 4 plants.

As the THC percentage has increased, so has my anxiety when I smoke it. If I go out of my way to find lower quality weed, I enjoy it much more.

We can buy vape carts, prerolls, candy, drinks, and much more.

Finding the "dose" that works perfectly for you is quite simple and available everywhere.

It's a vast improvement over what was there before.

A small amount of some low THC, high CBD product is pleasant without being intoxicating, and so much easier to come by with everything being tested and labelled.

To me it’s comparable to the single after-work beer I have long enjoyed, vs the high grade stuff being more like… an after-work 5 shots of vodka.

Medical is legal where I live, and I like both (and hybrids) depending on what I'm doing. In the evening, I would stick to Indicas and Indica-dominant hybrids. Since I work, and I never use while working, I use Sativas far less, but I like them for weekends - walks, chores, etc.. It's a bright feeling and more of a head-high, but under the wrong circumstances, that bright feeling turns dark.

Particularly in the evening, Sativas can make you buzzy and unsettled. My gf thought she hated herbs until she tried Indicas. She knows how and when to use now, so she can enjoy Sativas under the right conditions.

Again, this is just my personal experience, but it tracks with my understanding of the strains, and I hope it's helpful to someone.

Can you elaborate? This is very contrary to my experience.

. . . NM I looked it up and see what you're referring to. I'll have to look into it more, because, again, it doesn't sync with my experience.

>Even if it's not most of the strains you buy today are hybrids.

I've never had an ounce of difficulty finding Indicas or Sativas at dispensaries. Maybe there are more hybrids (never took the time to count the options), but if there are quality options available for all three, I don't see how it matters. And, within hybrids, there are Indica-dominant and Sativa-dominant strains.

Finding things they call Indica or Sativa. Afaik given that there's no objective difference between the two you can call it anything you want.

I'm a relatively inexperienced smoker so take the following with grain of salt but this is what I've noticed.

Since it's a plant there's definitely differences seed to seed, soil to soil, season to season, flower to flower, etc.

Weed these days is so potent small differences in flower smoked add up to large differences in THC/CBD/etc consumed. Like you're not carefully weighing out the amount you put in a bowl. It's done by eye and by volume which both have a large margin of error.

Then there's smoking technique. How you hold the lighter, how you inhale, how much water in the bong, and so on all impact how much smoke is produced and consumed.

Then we're talking about perception. How high you are is really how high you perceive you are. And that can be affected by mood, tiredness, what activity you do after smoking, and so on.

In my experience same flower, same technique, same amount, etc can lead to wildly disparate outcomes. Most of the time it's about the same. But every so often I find myself blasted to the moon or not really feeling much.

But all that said, Sommeliers can repeatedly recognize specific vintages where I can mostly just recognize broad categories. Maybe there's weed sommeliers out there that can do the same.

An industry that can profit off addiction is being observed drastically increasing the level of an addictive substance in their product. You expect consumers to be perfectly informed. I don't. Thus, it is reasonable to discuss whether an at what threshold a product should be labelled as higher-risk. If the behavior of an industry seems malicious enough and its public health impact adverse enough, regulation is necessary.

I'm arguing in the abstract.

IIUC, they're just saying that they prefer less potency, but have trouble finding it in the current market.

That doesn't necessarily mean they want only weaker weed to be sold.

edit to reply to below: California already has accurate labeling and is being called out as a problem

Seriously, if you smoke a joint of high-grade then you're doing it wrong.

It's as if the only thing available is vodka, but I'd like a beer. Drinking less vodka doesn't make it a beer. They're completely different things.

> but I can't because the shit around these days is so sticky and potent.

And I call BS on this.

I've met people who prefer smoking joints over other smoking methods. Sometimes I like to have a joint, also. Why are we wrong?

It's probably best if you don't do anything that could be potentially harmful.

A good pre-roll is actually a great experience. It's a 'treat" for many habitual users.

edit: disengaging, have a nice day

The next day, I bought a one-hit dry herb vaporizer, to be heated with a butane torch. I wanted to feel "high," and the joint had not worked. I used the same approach of waiting twenty to thirty minutes between hits with the vaporizer. In most of these hit attempts, the marijuana ended up combusting instead of vaporizing, as I had heated it up too much. For the first three hits, I did not really feel anything. However, the fourth hit was very rough, burning my throat, and sent me into a coughing fit.

Over a period of about fifteen minutes, the effect began to take hold. I decided to take a shower, and I started freaking out about halfway through, calling out to my wife. I thought I was having a stroke and suddenly felt like I did not have control over my body. I went up to bed and lied down for a long time, where my mind was racing with obsessive, intrusive thoughts. It felt like I was not the person controlling my actions or my thoughts. The feeling that I would be stuck like this forever - that I had lost my mind and entered some state of irreversible psychosis - persisted for at least an hour while I desperately tried to relax myself. After some amount of time, I got out of bed and threw up in the sink and the toilet, then went back to lie down. The entire night, I felt unable to express what I was thinking, but it was filled with the greatest worry that I have ever experienced. (I say this as someone who had actually experienced a couple panic attacks over a decade ago.)

The next day, when I woke up, the effects had subsided, but I was still left with a feeling that I was milliseconds behind the present moment. The worry that I would never feel normal again continued even after the high had diminished. It's a very difficult feeling to explain in hindsight, but after a bit of research, I think I experienced what's called "derealization." This continued into the rest of the day and a bit into the next, and it was a really scary situation for me, since I feel like I always need some amount of control over my mind. (Alcohol has never made me feel this way, though.)

Anyway, the derealization effects were gone after two days, and now, I'm afraid to try marijuana again. I would really like to enjoy the pleasant feelings reported with its use, but I'm worried that my personality is such that I just can't lose control over whatever part of my brain is affected by THC. But I also partly blame the salesperson who sold me something with such a high THC concentration, when I specifically requested something with a low concentration.

Unscientifically I would recommend maybe next time smoking with someone else, and getting a lower % thc, try for a hybrid strain, a mix of Sativa and Indica. If you go on the website of the dispensary it will list the details. Don't over complicate it, just choose something in the 15% range if available. Then just sit down and watch a comedy or something. Have some snacks available. Only take a couple hits and call it a day. The next week try 3 etc. Its cumulative and can sneak up on you.

Either way good luck :)

It just seems like a surprisingly tricky thing for me to figure out. Another recurring thought I had during the experience is that most people don't feel this way after smoking and that there must be something wrong with me. Maybe that's true, I don't know.

20-30 mins between hits is too much, if you don't feel anything after 5, max 10 minutes it won't come. You describe it like that, so it contradicts 25 years of my experience though...

It may be true that weed won't be the best for you, depends. I had this experience with few people, it was all just in their head, too much anxiety and fear but that's enough to ruin any trip, anytime. But I would give it another (different) chance before you give up on it completely.

If you have friend who is doing it and you feel comfortable around them, try it with him/her. They can 'guide' you and calm you down if required. Remember, sugar will take trip down if needed (plus it tastes amazing when high). Or most junk food like hamburgers, pizza etc., also an experience above any Michelin * restaurant when sober.

Yeah, I know thirty minutes is too long between hits, but I was trying to be as conservative as possible about it. That's why I'm kind of upset that, even being as careful as I was, I still ended up freaking out.

I can't think of anyone I'd feel comfortable smoking with. My wife was sober the entire time, thankfully, and helped a lot. She tried to guide me out of the negativity, but I ended up just feeling like I was too afraid to tell her she wasn't really helping. I did read about the sugar thing beforehand, but in the moment, eating was the last thing I was thinking about. A glass of juice might have helped, in hindsight.

Prototypical bad trip.

Unless you are a mutant or were not inhaling at all you were certainly ingesting high amounts of THC and were getting higher while not subjectively realizing it. By the 4th hit you were far gone.

Would be like being annoyed that the world was spinning after you drink a 5th of vodka...

Most likely right about that.

I know its a very individual experience for people so it seems like you have a higher threshold for "feeling high" and you blew right past it before you noticed. Vaping plant matter is typically a more concentrated way to ingest. If anything I'd try combusting small amounts and gauging your reaction that way. However I know people that get anxious or have panicked previously are more inclined to do so again, you get scared of having a similar experience and prime yourself to do just that.

Personally, I prefer the efficiency of the stomach and digestion system myself. It seems much more reliable.

For me the difference of these strains to some of the modern high THC + low CBD ones is comparable to drinking a good glass of wine versus chugging down some highly potent moonshine.

Some moderns strains are completely overbred and dangerous to some people in my experience.(2)

Knowing the Germans, I‘m optimistic, they‘ll regulate it properly, so that everything you will be able to buy legally, should be quite safe.

1) https://greatist.com/health/high-cbd-low-thc#_noHeaderPrefix...

2) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid_hyperemesis_synd...

I can see that being used by sellers as a marketing claim for health benefits in a not so distant future?

Interesting read on the subject: https://dutch-passion.com/en/blog/what-are-cannabis-landrace....

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americas-pot-labs-have-...

https://www.leafly.com/news/strains-products/lab-shopping-th...

I was able to start buying lower-potency weed in California as soon as recreational stores became established. Now, I'm waiting around for the same in NY and buying weed that is way too strong in the meantime. A joint as 10-15% THC with some CBD is an entirely different experience than the 25% and up THC that most dealers sell (and that's usually all they sell).

The trick is to educate consumers. And yes today's pot is way stronger than what people used to smoke back in the 80s, but people also don't smoke a handful of joints but one or two... for me, that argument is a bit of a scapegoat.

This is an opinion piece written by a Psychiatrist. Hardly conclusive or convincing. Also focuses on teen use so not sure it has much relevance for the vast majority of users in Legal jurisdictions.

Standardization is a problem with decriminalized and illegal drugs.

The black market is alive and well in the U.S. where it is legal.

For things that are NOT in the process of being banned entirely, sin taxes may do more harm than good.

[Edited to remove a badly-worded piece of anecdata that probably wasn't pertinent].

Really goes to show the objectivity of HN, that I get downvoted for this.

If you want to challenge an empty claim, do it right. Or, don't be a jerk. Either way.

I don't touch it myself, but even as an independent observer the benefits there are clear.

Wake. Up. People.

I'm saying that high potency products are still sold in legalized areas as there's demand for it.

I remember having issues years ago finding low but not non-zero THC products on the government website. I had to get 17% which is still high. Things may be different now.