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Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by lucideer on Friday July 01, 2022 @07:59AM (#31945191)
While I'm not proposing "doing nothing" about this problem, how much of this is likely to be a "hangover" from prohibition. Based on absolutely no data whatsoever, my instinct would be that demand for high-THC/low-CBD products would decrease as access to cannabis becomes less novel.
Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by cheschire on Friday July 01, 2022 @08:19AM (#31945410)
I suspect there's some truth here. Like how not everyone goes for the 80+ proof drinks, many just go for drinks that are 5% ABV or less.
Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by dmix on Friday July 01, 2022 @09:51AM (#31946353)
Same with nicotine vape pens, 35-50mg salt ones have a comparable dosage to cigarettes (and are pretty gross) but it's easy to slowly move down to 5mg.

This was impossible before with just cigarettes [1], which only had a 'lite' option which I doubt had any less nicotine. The only option was to quit. Weening off via 5mg is way easier.

[1] Besides maybe the nicotine gum which is even grosser

Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by Semaphor on Friday July 01, 2022 @10:23AM (#31946810)
Funnily enough, a law in Germany just went into effect today that makes it far cheaper (assuming you vape less with more nicotine, certainly holds true for me, I’m on 0mg nowadays) to vape with a lot of nicotine. The law is essentially a tax per ml. But doesn’t care what ml, pure propylene glycol, vegetable glycerine, flavor concentrates, nicotine, whatever, as long as the intended use is for vaping.
Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by gigaflop on Friday July 01, 2022 @10:03AM (#31946543)
I'm not sure where you're getting those numbers from. The vape shop near me sells nicotine salts in 25mg/ml to 50mg/ml ranges, which roughly translates to 2.5% and 5% strength. I've never seen something so low as 5mg/ml.
Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by dmix on Friday July 01, 2022 @10:14AM (#31946685)
maybe you're only using a disposable brand like Juul? You could go down to 3mg here in Canada with the one I used.

Picking a salt liquid at random, this one lets you go down to 1mg, since they probably add the nicotine to a 0mg product:

https://www.dashvapes.com/products/e-juice/24/grappleberry+i...

Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by gigaflop on Friday July 01, 2022 @11:00AM (#31947311)
Interesting, I'm used to the US market. Back when I was a regular user (as opposed to sometimes-caving-and-buying-a-dispo quitter), salts were usually 25 and 50, with lower strengths provided by freebase nicotine juices. I think the last freebase juice I bought was a 3 or 6mg, but those were less common.

Disposables are usually 5% salts over here, afaik.

Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by slfnflctd on Friday July 01, 2022 @08:42AM (#31945603)
Being too high can be really uncomfortable for a lot of people. Some strains produce more unpleasant side effects than others, as well (although people will often react very differently to the same thing, of course). I didn't believe there was any such thing as weed I wouldn't like before I gained legal access. Now I know better.

Perhaps there's been resistance to talking about this much because it's a new freedom and consumers are afraid too much criticism could lead to that freedom being yanked back away. However, I have noticed more conversation about finding the right level of CBD... so I think your instinct may not be far off.

Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by IfOnlyYouKnew on Friday July 01, 2022 @08:58AM (#31945743)
I've taken every non-opiate drug available under the sun. The only really bad experience was a night of absolute terror after a deep drag on a joint.
Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by ta988 on Friday July 01, 2022 @10:57AM (#31947249)
The dose make the poison. Lots of non-opiate drugs can cause nights of terrors (for you or those around you).
Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by nerdponx on Friday July 01, 2022 @08:16AM (#31945375)
My intuition is similar, especially as older and less "drug oriented" users continue to enter the market. In Massachusetts, a lot of dispensaries show the THC level, and I usually just buy the one with the lowest content.
Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by jgtrosh on Friday July 01, 2022 @08:18AM (#31945391)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6312155/

> without any clear guidelines or regulations from government officials, the cannabis industry has taken a page from the tobacco and alcohol industries’ play book and developed strains of marijuana and concentrated marijuana products with much higher concentrations of THC, the psychoactive component that causes addiction. The more potent a drug is, the stronger the possibility of addiction and the more likely the person will continue to purchase and use the product.

Doesn't seem like there's any incentive to reduce potency.

Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by lucideer on Friday July 01, 2022 @08:23AM (#31945439)
I opened with "I'm not proposing doing nothing" - I do think measures to remediate this problem in the short term are a good idea, in line with the fears outlined in your article.

Nothing in your article tackles my main point though?

> the cannabis industry has taken a page from the tobacco and alcohol industries’ play book

As a slightly off-topic aside: tobacco I'm less familiar with (I wasn't aware of efforts by the industry to grow strains of the plants with higher nicotine content but it seems unsurprising), but including alcohol here is bizarre. Alcohol isn't naturally occurring in harvested produce - it's an output from a process. And even then, maybe they're talking about distillation, but that process predates the industrial revolution by 100s maybe 1000s of years.

Tbh this throwaway statement kinda makes me question the article...

Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by InefficientRed on Friday July 01, 2022 @08:37AM (#31945540)
> Alcohol isn't naturally occurring in harvested produce - it's an output from a process.

Ethanol is naturally occurring.

That said, I agree that including alcohol here is bizarre. As far as I can tell there has never been a monotonic increase in ABV; instead, there is a large selection ranging from high alcohol content to even alcohol-free (which is so unpopular in the US as to be barely worth mentioning, but quite popular in Germany, and I'm now seeing large and even regional breweries in the US produce AF versions of their most popular beers).

> Unless they're talking about distillation

Most alcoholic beverages are made through some sort of distillation process, so I'm not sure what difference you're alluding to here.

Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by skissane on Friday July 01, 2022 @08:46AM (#31945642)
> Most alcoholic beverages are made through some sort of distillation process

How do you define “most”? - but I’m pretty sure non-distilled/non-fortified alcoholic beverages (wine/beer/etc) make up more of the alcoholic beverage market (whether in litres or dollars) than distilled/fortified beverages. I think they also are a lot more if you were to count SKUs (number of varieties of non-fortified wines/beers/etc > spirits/liqueurs/fortified wines/etc)

Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by InefficientRed on Friday July 01, 2022 @09:14AM (#31945901)
Oh, okay. Just confusion of terms.

My brain organizes things as "beer, wine, and alcohol (aka spirits)" as opposed to "alcohol, including beer and wine". And an "alcoholic beverage" is just either a spirit alone or a spirit mixed with something.

Probably because that's how my state organizes the stores (with wine/alcohol in separate stores from beer, so if you say "we need to buy beer" that means going to a different place than "we need to by alcohol").

Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by ElevenLathe on Friday July 01, 2022 @10:37AM (#31946975)
The unambiguous word in these situations is "liquor", at least in US English.
Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by skissane on Saturday July 02, 2022 @01:33AM (#31956541)
“Liquor” has two senses - a narrow sense in which it refers specifically to beverages produced by distillation, and a broader sense in which it refers to alcoholic beverages in general, including wine and beer. The narrow sense is stronger in the US (and I think also Canada?), whereas the broader sense is stronger in the UK and Australia (and I would assume Ireland and New Zealand too)
Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by InefficientRed on Friday July 01, 2022 @12:40PM (#31949058)
I always thought "liquor" was stuff like Lemoncello and Amaretto.

(FWIW I'm a native US English speaker.)

Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by grzm on Friday July 01, 2022 @12:42PM (#31949089)
You may be thinking of liqueur.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/liqueur

> a usually sweetened alcoholic liquor (such as brandy) flavored with fruit, spices, nuts, herbs, or seeds

vs liquor

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/liquor

> a usually distilled rather than fermented alcoholic beverage

see https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/amaretto

> an almond-flavored liqueur

and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limoncello

> Limoncello (Italian pronunciation: [limonˈtʃɛlːo]) is an Italian lemon liqueur mainly produced in Southern Italy

Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by ElevenLathe on Friday July 01, 2022 @12:53PM (#31949263)
Yep, liqueur is cutesy syrupy stuff made in european monasteries or whatever, typically around 40 proof. Liquor (as in "corn likker") is the stuff for getting messed up fast, typically at least 80 proof.
Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by lucideer on Friday July 01, 2022 @08:43AM (#31945615)
> Most alcoholic beverages are made through some sort of distillation process, so I'm not sure what difference you're alluding to here.

Most alcoholic beverages (beers, wines) are not distilled - distillation is typically only used to take a drink above the 20-30% ABV mark (spirit / liquor).

Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by MauranKilom on Friday July 01, 2022 @09:02AM (#31945791)
> Ethanol is naturally occurring.

That's... decidedly not true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95DPkPW5_PE

Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by InefficientRed on Friday July 01, 2022 @09:18AM (#31945945)
>> Ethanol is naturally occurring.

> That's... decidedly not true.

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95DPkPW5_PE [link to video of animals becoming intoxicated on rotting fruit]

I'm confused. Perhaps you read this as "isn't"?

Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by MauranKilom on Friday July 01, 2022 @09:26AM (#31946037)
Indeed I did. Apologies!
Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by skissane on Friday July 01, 2022 @08:37AM (#31945544)
> Alcohol isn't naturally occurring in harvested produce - it's an output from a process

Fermentation is a natural process. Alcohol naturally occurs in overripe fruits. Humans first discovered it by accident - fruit juices or grain-water mixtures left out would become alcoholic. In fact, non-fresh non-alcoholic fruit juice only became a product in modern times, because it was only in the modern period we developed the technology to stop the natural process of fermentation.

That said, natural fermentation (without distillation) can only get you up to 18% ABV - beyond that, it poisons the yeast and they stop producing alcohol. To go higher you need distillation/fortification.

Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by NoGravitas on Friday July 01, 2022 @08:46AM (#31945636)
I suspect it's a reference to the shift in preference for hard liquor over beer that happened in the US as a result of prohibition, liquor being easier to smuggle due to lower volumes. That preference persisted for some decades after prohibition ended, but arguably has turned around by now.
Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by lucideer on Friday July 01, 2022 @08:53AM (#31945699)
In that case, that would reinforce my instinct. There's certainly a recent cocktail boom, and there was a brief trend of straight vodka being popular with girls my age when I was in college, but these are passing market phases, not something systemic in the industry. By-and-large ~5% beers and ~12% wines are the popular choice today.
Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by NoGravitas on Friday July 01, 2022 @09:04AM (#31945810)
It seems like the biggest growth in the industry is in hard seltzers/alcopops, which range from 4-12%, but mostly on the lower end. So it does seem like in general there's a preference for strengths in a range of beer - craft beer - wine.
Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by lucideer on Friday July 01, 2022 @11:35AM (#31947905)
Speaking of trends, there's currently a trend in beer world where I am in "low-ABV" and "0.0" products. Not sure if it'll be lasting, but I guess that along with the emergence of some things like 0% wines and even "spirits" (distilled botanical infusions) is further anecdata.
Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by dmix on Friday July 01, 2022 @09:57AM (#31946449)
Probably one of the best trends towards weight loss in the general public. Beer is often an underrated contributor to weight gain with all of the social aspects.
Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by dfxm12 on Friday July 01, 2022 @09:12AM (#31945879)
Or people would use less.

I think national regulation around standard strength, doses, labeling, etc. could help here in a way that legalization (or decriminalization) at a smaller level can't.

Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by lucideer on Friday July 01, 2022 @11:38AM (#31947944)
> Or people would use less.

Not sure what form you buy your weed in, but typically reducing the dose is not as straightforward as it would be with, e.g. a powdered or liquid product.

> national regulation [...] could help here in a way that legalization [...] can't.

I'm not sure I follow - are you proposing regulation in addition to legalization, or instead of? I don't really understand how the latter would work (or why they would/should be mutually exclusive) but maybe I'm just misinterpreting?

Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by j-krieger on Friday July 01, 2022 @06:53PM (#31954052)
I‘m not proposing laws that forbid high THC products. But there needs to be advertising. People understand that downing a bottle of vodka can mail or kill.
Re:Germany’s move to legalise cannabis expected to create ‘d... by lucideer on Saturday July 02, 2022 @11:58AM (#31960107)
I would absolutely propose laws to regulate THC. One of the big advantages of legalisation is the ability to apply targeted & graduated rules to products.