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Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by tribune on Monday November 20, 2017 @02:11PM (#15742283)
I've been coming to resent my smartphone more and more, essentially because of this.

I recently quit using tobacco. I remembered all the warnings from my school health classes about how hard it was to quit once you start, how there's a physical dependence and all that. It was uncomfortable at times, and there were plenty of cravings to get over, but I was ultimately successful.

I can compare this to the couple of times I've tried to "quit the Internet" (i.e. social media, reddit, etc.). The problem is that there's nowhere to run from the Internet. I can avoid tobacco stores, I can't avoid my iPhone. For what it's worth, I'd love to smash my phone and throw it in a ditch, but there are certain social and professional obligations that require me to hold onto it. I have to be able to check my work email on the go. I have to use Facebook to stay in the loop about social events because all my friends use Facebook to schedule those social events. I have to call my parents once in a while. One device is a tool for all of those, in addition to being an ultra-high-tech meme-box with which I can mainline information to make myself feel good. It is of course not all bad, but the wonderful connectivity of the Internet is inextricably wrapped up with the "DoS Attack on Your Free Will".

To get back to the analogy, I'd like to think I was successful at quitting tobacco because I can avoid it. If I were giving someone tips to quit something, that's the best advice I could think to offer: avoid it. If you want to quit smoking, wouldn't it be preposterous to buy a pack of cigarettes and carry it everywhere? The temptation would always be there.

So it is with smartphones. When the best minds in attention capitalism are trying to pull me in every time I send a text message, how can I quit that? It's always in my pocket, and I can't simply throw it away because there are now certain expectations that I carry that tool with me almost everywhere I go. There is nowhere to run from this modern media, and that terrifies me.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by senko on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:16PM (#15742842)
Here's how I (try to) keep the Internet-based distractions to a minimum:

* Uninstall twitter, facebook and other social apps from your phone; only use the computer (or other device that's not constantly in your pocket).

* Even on your computer, log out of twitter, facebook and others. Only log in when you want to look into something (eg. check the social events, send a message), and use private/incognito mode for this; use 2FA - besides being good security practice, it's an extra hurdle so you won't default to "quickly check" the sites when your mental energy is low.

* When you do use tw/fb/..., unfollow/block/opt out of all the meme/cute/funny stuff (at least n my fb feed, there's basically 10 sites that'd constantly crop up - blocking posts by all of these greatly increased Signal/Noise ratio on FB);

* Have a reading list ready. I use iBooks on my iPhone to load up interesting articles, but you can use whichever method you prefer. The goal is to have something interesting/worthwhile to read available for the moments when you do want to look at your phone and/or kill some time (eg when in a long queue or waiting for a train). This something shouldn't require special focus or mental energy/capacity.

* Develop heuristics to ignore content that you know is junk but that tends to drag you in. I suspect this is slightly different for anyone, mine is: anything cute, funny, outrageous, sad or is a list of things. I am aware this potentially cuts out some genuinely worthwhile stuff and I'm okay with it. Considering my attention & time is finite and the Internet is (for all purposes) not, I'd rather have false positives than false negatives.

* I also have a high bar for what's newsworthy for me: anything that personally affects me (meaning I have to change my intentions or react in some way), and stuff that'll still be considered newsworthy in a month. Anything else gets ignored, no matter the medium. Again I'm okay with false positives. Also, since my friends are colleagues typically don't have the same approach, if I miss anything important (or really interesting), I'll probably hear it on the grapevine.

Couldn't be happier.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by gkya on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:32PM (#15743481)
Solid advice. I'll add to this:

- Do not follow newspapers RSS feeds. They bombard you with news that are not relevant at all. Their newsletters are better. I get all my news from daily or weekly newsletters. I would like to get weekly digests only, but I havent found a good one from a newspaper I like.

- Actually quit Facebook. It's pure evil. I was so shocked to hear how it showed you your old, forgotten photos/memories from past just to engage you. If you can't engage with people through messaging (including whatsapp) or phone calls, they are not that close friends.

- On reddit, avoid controversial subreddits, especially on things relevant to you. As a Turkish citizen I avoid /r/Turkey because it's idiots idioting on things that directly affect me, and the urge to rant and answer is hard to suppress. Nowadays I usually only comment on /r/emacs and HN, and avoid all the controversy everywhere. Also, I push all the funny, interesting etc. stuff on reddit into multis, and subscribe only to some low traffic subs where I do not thing my participation would be a loss of time (which is basically /r/emacs, /r/istanbul, and a couple others).

- If you use HN often, subscribe to the front page RSS and to the digest [1]. This way you won't ever miss the important stuff but have less need to actually check the frontpage.

- Disable email notifications. Don't let the sender dictate you when you'll interact with them, decide it yourself. The last time I had an email notification was quite some years ago.

- Declutter your email inbox. Try to make sure that most of what's in there is what you'd just immediately read. Try to redirect the rest in relevant mailboxes. Your email setup should allow you to dispatch incoming messages on headers and body content. Especially useful are List-ID, Subject and From headers.

[1]: https://hndigest.com/

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by agumonkey on Monday November 20, 2017 @05:37PM (#15744000)
it's funny, your comment makes me think.. the world has too many moving parts to follow them all, so a carefully curated summary of events would be interesting. annnnd that's the press (which got injured by the stream fad.. irony)
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by gkya on Monday November 20, 2017 @05:57PM (#15744131)
I dream about an AI service that can curate me a newsletter given some sources (RSS, Twitter feeds, youtube feeds, whatnot) and send it to me regularly on a given interval. It would avoid duplicates and essentially identical stuff [1], weigh and choose the most interesting ones, and present them to me in a nice, readable format. Ironically I would not use such service if it existed because it would be very anti-privacy.

[1] Twitter is weird. I only follow ~15 accounts for events and (want to) use twitter only for that, but the way people usually post updates about events is to repeatedly post what is essentially the same tweet, and even with that many accounts followed it becomes a mess. I end up never checking it because it's basically a puzzle.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by em3rgent0rdr on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @07:49AM (#15747518)
> "Ironically I would not use such service if it existed because it would be very anti-privacy."

Does such a service necessarily have to be anti-privacy? It could be created with open-source tools and run on a cheap low power server in your home, scouring the web for stuff that it thinks interests you based on data you feed it. You will still be in charge of your data then.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by agumonkey on Monday November 20, 2017 @06:26PM (#15744320)
can't say if it's just fatigue or a valuable idea but at that point I want no more tech, I want to see people working together, even if it means lo-tech
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by laaph on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @01:42AM (#15746133)
I like your suggestions, but I have to tell you my anecdote. As someone relatively new to Turkey, I followed r/Turkey to find more information and understand things better. But I quickly found that your description of it is pretty accurate. But as someone still struggling to learn the language and wants information on Turkey, where are better forums to look?
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by jacobra2 on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:30PM (#15742959)
I've done something similar with my Android phone, and it's worked out decently. One problem I encountered though - I spent a lot of time on Reddit, and would check it subconsciously, so I deleted it. Now I find that I'm using Google Now, the left swipe off the home screen. In effect I took the attention from Reddit and gave it to Google. I'm not convinced that was a worthwhile trade. Given I can't delete Google Now, maybe having Reddit on my phone was serving a purpose I didn't realize. Maybe there's an app that will minimize the subconscious attention blast radius. Something that I'll still check but will minimize the time I spend there.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by dhd415 on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:40PM (#15743055)
FWIW, you can disable Google Now on your phone. On the more recent versions of Android, you long-press an empty spot on your home screen, select "Settings", and then locate and disable the "Your feed" item.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by jacobra2 on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:49PM (#15743624)
Amazing. Disabled. Didn't know that, thank you!
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by TimJRobinson on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @11:47AM (#15749202)
This doesn't seem to work any more :( I'm trying to keep notifications of my calendar and flights but disable all the distractions like "Stories to read", and apparently Google has removed the ability to disable it... (https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/140288/how-do-i-...)
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by dhd415 on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @11:59AM (#15749319)
It would certainly be nice to disable just that one section. I took the GGP's comment to be about disabling the entire Google Now/Feed app.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by djsavvy on Monday November 20, 2017 @07:51PM (#15744688)
If only that actually did anything on my phone.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by pvdebbe on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @03:16AM (#15746513)
Moto G5, Android 7.0, the long press on home screen -> settings has no other settings but one. But I did locate the settings by going through Google Now's settings. Thanks for pointing this out!
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by chli on Wednesday November 22, 2017 @07:21AM (#15756216)
Hi I accessed it using the following method on my Galaxy S7.

Applications Drawer\Google -> Hamburger Menu\Settings -> Your Feed

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by pantalaimon on Monday November 20, 2017 @05:15PM (#15743811)
> I spent a lot of time on Reddit, and would check it subconsciously, so I deleted it.

How can you delete a website?

No seriously, how do you keep the browser from hooking you?

I don't have any apps installed and I often fall into a reddit-hn-local_news1-local_news2-it_news1-it_news2 cycle that I start all over when I'm done with it just to check if something new happened in the meantime! Especially on Weekend mornings or when I come home from work, I can sink hours into that cycle and feel increasingly miserable about it, but the sweet endorphin rush of new bits of information can push that away momentarily.

I have tried editing /etc/hosts in the past, but this tends to only shift my cycle to other websites.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by egypturnash on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @12:09AM (#15745715)
Set this to your homepage: https://codepen.io/Yakudoo/full/YXxmYR/

And set your browser to open new tabs with your homepage.

Seriously. The gentle smile of playing with this silly little low-res lion can break you out of that loop sometimes.

Does not work if you tend to just keep on reusing the same tab of course.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by pksadiq on Monday November 20, 2017 @08:12PM (#15744788)
> No seriously, how do you keep the browser from hooking you?

This was a really big issue with me too. What I did in the past was to signup for low bandwidth internet connection (not by speed, but with yearly limit of 18 GiB), which made me limit the frequent visits.

These days when I do some serious work, I decides to disconnect internet for the next 45 minutes (or so). I have locally installed manpages, devhelp and devdocs.io documentations. Even if I'm tempted to visit some website (eg: stackoverflow), I delay until the time reaches.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by zeta0134 on Monday November 20, 2017 @07:01PM (#15744496)
I've solved this problem by simply being aware of it. When I catch myself opening a website that I just had open, I minimize my browser and do something else. It can wait, and I'll enjoy the run later anyway when the world's had some time to bake, and there's more news stories to read.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by dredmorbius on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @02:55AM (#15746404)
Block the host at your firewall or in /etc/hosts (or system equivalent).

dnsmasq is rather good for this.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by 121789 on Monday November 20, 2017 @10:25PM (#15745275)
I use Cold Turkey on my computer and the Freedom app on iOS. It works pretty well (Freedom can be buggy). I make the list of websites pretty exhaustive. Using those + meditation has helped quite a bit.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by andrepd on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @09:50AM (#15748156)
Install a different launcher. I suggest Nova Launcher, or Trebuchet (open source launcher, get it from https://labs.xda-developers.com/store/app/com.lineageport.tr...)
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by endgame on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:06PM (#15743290)
One thing that has helped me: beeminder (I don't work for them). I have a goal that tracks reddit(etc)-free days, of which I need to do several each week or they take some of my money. This has been pretty effective, in that I've been doing more than strictly required and coming back here to write this feels weird.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by tammer on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:18PM (#15742857)
I follow a similar protocol & find it very helpful. The missing link for me was the events function of Facebook, which I find endlessly useful. Luckily FB now has a standalone app specifically for this, Facebook Local. Its no-nonsense, no ads, just relevant events. Plus, the feed it gives you actually ends!
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by graeme on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:10PM (#15743328)
Oh wow, dod not know about facebook local. Does it let you manage events you’ve been invited to, amd host events? I could avoid facebook entirely with that. Friend’s birthdays would be tye only thing i’d miss.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by asavadatti on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:20PM (#15743403)
I believe there is a way to link your FB friend's birthdays to your google calendar.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by graeme on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:50PM (#15743625)
True. Though then my calendar becomes terribly cluttered. (I care about maybe 20% of the birthdays on my list)

I think the birthdays only counted as "costless" when I was already checking and filtering through Facebook notifications, but that was an illusion.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by keypress on Monday November 20, 2017 @05:57PM (#15744132)
When internet connections were pay per minute, I'd think about what I wanted to look up before I connected. Then I'd go online and used Opera to follow many links to different tabs. I'd have a flurry, then disconnect and read. This worked surprisingly well.

I find I can't really read/comprehend from an LED screen well at all these days. I got into the habit of sending items of interest to my e-reader. Any long form article goes there.

Sadly I sat on my e-reader, and my system went to pot. I've just stacked up my reading list. I have no idea what is there. Going back to scrappy reading, feels like a real time and brain drain.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by JumpCrisscross on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:31PM (#15742973)
> Uninstall twitter, facebook and other social apps from your phone

A middle ground is turning off badges and other notifications. Switching to a paper newspaper also helps.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by gorbachev on Monday November 20, 2017 @05:38PM (#15744002)
I used to run my browsers with an addon that disabled user comments. I whitelisted a few sites where the Internet idiots didn't visit. It worked absolutely beautifully and forced me to avoid the worst of Internet very effectively, even during my weak moments. It cut down so much of the frustration I had about consuming content on the Internet.

I had to uninstall it, because the addon developer stopped maintaining it and the performance bugs made browsing bigger sites much too slow.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by austinjp on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @03:18AM (#15746518)
> Even on your computer, log out of twitter, facebook and others. Only log in when you want to look into something... use private/incognito mode... use 2FA... it's an extra hurdle so you won't default to "quickly check"

Absolutely. Latest Firefox helps here. There's an option to use private by default for all windows. This means when you close it (another habit to develop perhaps) you don't stay logged in to these social media sites.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by austinjp on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @03:21AM (#15746527)
> ignore content that you know is junk but that tends to drag you in. I suspect this is slightly different for anyone, mine is: anything cute...

I've actually started deliberately looking at the cute stuff. It's a welcome antidote to the outrage apparent in other threads/sites. I have enough natural spleen already without needing to top it up.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by Terr_ on Monday November 20, 2017 @06:39PM (#15744382)
> Even on your computer, log out of twitter, facebook and others. Only log in when you want to look into something

Even without going as far as "incognito mode for everything", this can dovetail well with a privacy-conscious cookie or browser-profile policy.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by maksimum on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:16PM (#15743377)
Love the 2FA idea.

Do you know of an app/browser extension that lets you bookmark arbitrary HTML pages, and keeps track of how far down you've scrolled; maybe let you write notes? Or maybe one that converts an arbitrary page to PDF, and stores it locally for you?

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by WorldMaker on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:45PM (#15743582)
The combination of OneNote and Edge's Web Notes gets you most of those features. There's also relatively "ancient" apps like Pocket (which Firefox presents out of the box these days) and Instapaper.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by etrautmann on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:33PM (#15742993)
This list is EXACTLY what I do and I'm pretty happy with it.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by SirFatty on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:41PM (#15743550)
Excellent advice!
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by tonystubblebine on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:06PM (#15742772)
I commissioned a series of articles on the practical side of reconfiguring your phone and laptop for your own aims (based mostly on Tristan Harris' work). https://betterhumans.coach.me/three-articles-to-reclaim-your...

And I'm 100% with you. It was a huge revelation for me personally when I realized new technology doesn't necessarily make me happier. Probably like a lot of us, I grew up obsessed with new tech, new computers, new gaming consoles, new phones.

2 years ago, I traded my iPhone plus in for an SE (the smaller one). Then I moved all slot machine apps either off my phone or at least into a folder on the second screen. Primarily, my phone is for maps and camera. Everything else is suspect.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by maneesh on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:41PM (#15743549)
If you aren't familiar with the poster above (who I'm replying to) it's Tony from http://coach.me -- one of the best personal improvement products in the world. Tony's site provides people with a direct link to a coach -- for a very fair price -- who can hold you accountable and help you change your habits.

Tony was the founder of Lift.do which became coach.me.

His blog on betterhumans is fantastic and I highly recommend it.

Keep up the fantastic work Tony!!!

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by johnvega on Monday November 20, 2017 @05:25PM (#15743891)
Time Well Spent, a movement to demand technology platforms serves our best interests, not advertisers.

https://goo.gl/fsW8Qq

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by free_everybody on Monday November 20, 2017 @06:01PM (#15744150)
This was an amazing talk. Wow!
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by beaverkiwi on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:49PM (#15743141)
Here's what i did (nuclear option):

Ditch your sim card/mobile plan, get a voip number, phone only works on wifi like a home phone. When out and about you only have the media you pre-downloaded (podcasts, mp3s, audiobooks, offline maps) no more staring at the screen in public.

Move all personal communication to email/signal, check it in the morning after your routine (exercise, meditation etc). Ditch instagram/twitter/reddit(turned to shit anyway) etc, keep facebook just for contacts but a single post with your email and never log on. (We really need a different phonebook platform). Never look at news sites except this one and other neutral biased ones like economically focused news.

Take a note of everything you want to google, allow 1 hour a day internet/research time where you google the questions of the day. You find the phone is inferior to desktop when at home so you spend little time on your phone. Make a life plan and use your new 4 hours a day to achieve these goals. No screens 2 hours before bedtime.

The downside is you cant receive calls when out and about (for me an upside), there has been 2 times in the past 2 years I've had to stop at a coffee shop to send off a message, worth the $2000 savings.

Phone is still a great tool, camera, mp3 player, maps, guitar tuner etc etc. Knowing the latest tweet from your favorite celebrity while walking in the park isn't adding to your life. Unless there is a nuclear strike or a national draft then news wont effect you.

edit, should have read the replies, seems there's a bunch of similar responses

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by otterpro on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:35PM (#15743505)
Wow, I've done something similar. I've gotten rid of internet completely at home (Goodbye Comcast) and I have internet access only at the office at work (9-6pm weekdays). I've been consuming all my media through podcasts, audiobooks, youtube (via gPodder), and renting physical DVDs for movies. I've made effort to buy only paper books. Also, I've switched from AT&T to a pre-paid plan on Tracfone with limited internet access ( 1GB/month ).
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by greymeister on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:07PM (#15743297)
I switched back to an old Nokia, use Garmin for GPS and an old iPod touch for music. Limiting my usage on my home desktop sounds like a good next step, I like the idea of limiting Internet crawling as part of time management.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by tj-teej on Monday November 20, 2017 @02:31PM (#15742476)
A simple first step, which changed a lot for me: Keeping your phone on Do Not Disturb permanently.

It (AT LEAST) frees you to decide when to check the phone, rather than letting these companies, (through notifications) decide for you when you're going to check your phone.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by SAI_Peregrinus on Monday November 20, 2017 @02:40PM (#15742550)
Another benefit of this (at least on Android) is that you can set Do Not Disturb to "Priority Only" and have it allow calls/texts from your contacts, but not other notifications. This eliminates telemarketer robocalls, as they're very unlikely to get lucky and spoof a contact's number.

I also turn off the ability of most apps to display notifications. That helps.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by mitchty on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:01PM (#15742732)
Yep, you can do the same with iOS too with allowing contacts to get through. I turn off all notifications entirely is my first tip, at least to not be on the home screen. I have to actively want to look at notifications, push notifications are almost sheer evil.

Second is to restrict your internet use to specific times or to just say an hour every night from 9-10pm. Lets say start out by saying internet only from 0-15 minutes on the hour (initially). The idea is to get you used to not reflexively use the internet to prevent boredom or distraction.

How you accomplish that, say by killing your internal dns server to not respond or even firewall off your network from reaching the internet is up to you. But the key is to make it so you change your habit of when using the internet is ok.

Oh also, leave the phone at your desk, only pick it up when you need to look at it or if it rings etc...

Another good tip, reward yourself for each milestone, you want to encourage yourself to do the right thing. Don't use negative reinforcement unless you really know how to make that work. Its easier to do stuff like: if I don't go online at all today, I'll eat a container of ice cream (bad example if you do this every day but you get the gist) as a reward.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by dingaling on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:07PM (#15742780)
And once it's in DND mode, I trained myself to only unlock the phone when I saw a notification.

I still pull the phone out of my pocket several times an hour, but a quick push of the home-button and a confirmation that there's nothing of interest leads to it going straight back into the pocket. It's liberating!

Step 2 was removing the browser shortcut from the main screen, so there's less temptation to just 'fire it up and check HN quickly'.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by rickycook on Monday November 20, 2017 @05:30PM (#15743929)
having a smart watch eliminated even that for me. they’re pretty fantastic triage devices (deciding what to ignore rather than making sure you’re instantly aware). i barely ever check my notifications any more. i see friends at cafes pull out their phones every few minutes and get distracted by facebook, but i’m quite content to have it just sitting on the table because i know it’s not doing anything
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by auggierose on Monday November 20, 2017 @02:17PM (#15742346)
Don't check your work email on the go. Quit facebook. It is actually pretty simple!
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by bdamm on Monday November 20, 2017 @02:33PM (#15742487)
I don't know why you got downvoted. It's both simple and hard.

I quit facebook back in March. Yep, some people don't talk to me anymore. But you know what? I talk with other people more, and I'm enjoying those relationships more.

It's also hard; this is a top-of-class addiction. There's nothing easy about rewiring the reward circuit of your brain. And definitely Facebook, work email and in my case ycombinator news, are wired in to the reward circuit - for the relief of boredom, or even the relief of hard work (or the appearance of that relief anyway.)

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by ShabbosGoy on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:20PM (#15742871)
Yeah, HN is scary because browsing it will give you a subconscious feeling that you worked on something important.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by mulmen on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:34PM (#15743001)
This is true but at least HN has the noprocrast setting to fill the willpower void. Facebook could use the same thing but that means less eyeballs on ads.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by bdamm on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @11:07AM (#15748798)
I had never noticed that noprocrast setting before. Thanks!
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by Hextinium on Monday November 20, 2017 @02:36PM (#15742521)
This may work well for you but there are somethings that cause you to have to check email and Facebook for fear of external consequences which is what the OP is saying. For example Hangouts makes me lose at least half a hour of productity a day but if I uninstalled it and never checked it then I would never talk to all of my friends on Hangouts which is not a trade-off that I am willing to take. Same for email, if I stopped checking email on my phone I could lose my job because it requires prompt responses to emails and I like my job and not willing to take that trade off. But then I am stuck with this phone that also contains all of the other things a phone can do and rob me of my attention that way. It's a Catch-22 of productivity.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by mquander on Monday November 20, 2017 @02:50PM (#15742651)
For example Hangouts makes me lose at least half a hour of productity a day but if I uninstalled it and never checked it then I would never talk to all of my friends on Hangouts which is not a trade-off that I am willing to take.

A lot of people say this one (usually about Facebook), but I don't understand it. If you want to talk to those friends, why doesn't it suffice to schedule spending time with them in the same way you would have done it in 2000?

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by lovich on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:02PM (#15743261)
I don't know about your age but in 2000 I was in middle school and all my friends communicated by aim since we didn't have the ability to go where we wanted when we wanted. That social structure has carried over into adult life where I have several close friends that I get to see maybe twice a year due to our schedules, but can still talk to them everyday. Dropping communication through messaging apps would probably mean we just aren't friends anymore. The barriers to us meeting up more often aren't just laziness
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by mquander on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:53PM (#15743646)
Yeah, actually I'm the same age as you and I did most of my talking over IM too then, so my comment was poorly made. The spirit of my comment was "in a way you could have done it in 2000, whichever you prefer", e.g. email, phone, in-person, scheduling time to be online together. I use all of those to keep in touch with people now as an adult.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by lovich on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @12:11PM (#15749440)
Ah yea, I agree then. I use Hangouts in my circle of friends because it's currently the most convenient, but we've changed what we've used before and can change again
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by watwut on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:44PM (#15743093)
It is just a guess, but maybe they are not on IRC or MUD anymore. Or started families and they don't live in the same dorm anymore.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by mulmen on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:38PM (#15743032)
Exactly. And not just 2000, Hangouts was released in 2013, are these friendships less than four years old?

Phones and email still exist. If your relationship is predicated on a single internet based communication service then it's probably not a relationship worth maintaining.

Just use a different communication mechanism. It's really not that hard.

Send a postcard, it's fun, I promise.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by UncleSam on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:00PM (#15743239)
For me, it's actually about having additional communication that didn't exist before Hangouts came out. My family is spread around the country and hardly visits or calls each other. With Hangouts, we suddenly started communicating more, and that's not something I want to revert.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by 946789987649 on Monday November 20, 2017 @02:48PM (#15742633)
I really don't understand the hate for facebook, it really is what you make it. For me, it's a glorified messaging app and nothing more. Well...Maybe also a museum of my less than attractive younger years.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by erikbye on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:50PM (#15743148)
From what I've seen addicts both hate and love their drug.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by cknoxrun on Monday November 20, 2017 @02:34PM (#15742490)
I switched to a flip phone. The benefits strongly outweigh the advantages of being hooked on a smartphone. My sleep has improved, the quality-time I spend with my kids is actually quality-time now, and my night vision has even improved (this one shocked me the most).

It's not for everyone, but I have a very addictive personality when it comes to technology.

Edit: I see you can't do that because of professional obligations. What about carrying around an iPad - it could be more of a barrier to just random surfing?

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by losteric on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:14PM (#15742829)
My solution was to switch to a capped data plan... unlimited talk/text (which I've never found to be a problem) and 1GB of 4G data.

Having a cap forces me to be mindful about how I interact through my phone. If I use too much Reddit, for example, I run out of data and fallback to 3G - acceptable for social/professional obligations but way too slow for wasting time. Lately I've been considering switching to 3G entirely.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by rb808 on Monday November 20, 2017 @05:27PM (#15743908)
Actually are there any good super cheap 3g only plans in the US? I went to Poland and they were a few bucks a month for unlimited 3G data which would be amazing.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by submeta on Monday November 20, 2017 @02:34PM (#15742491)
Actually I dont' think the analogy is valid. Tobacco is addictive, true. And tobacco has only one use. A smartphone has many use cases (mp3 player, camera, compass, notebook, encyclopedia and many more).

And why would you like to "quit internet"? Yes, many sites try to get your attention, try to manipulate you into buying their products. But you can avoid that. Using ad blockers wherever you can. And regarding Facebook. You can use it more like a newsreader (subscribing to newspapers, ignoring my friend's posts mostly).

Edit: Re smartphone. I also have my phone on `do not disturb', permanently. I try to educate my friends / family members that I don't necessarily pick up the phone when it rings, but I will always call back. They are ok with that.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by addicted on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:41PM (#15743547)
I agree that the analogy isn’t valid. Only because information technologies today are a lot worse than tobacco. Unlike apps, tobacco does not have a team of PHDs constantly reformulating itself to draw in those people who have found a way out of it, and ensuring that the ones already addicted remain.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by BellsOnSunday on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @10:35AM (#15748537)
I think the tobacco industry has been no slouch in the marketing department, but the real difference is that there's no way to use tobacco that is safe and beneficial for you.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by eksemplar on Monday November 20, 2017 @02:41PM (#15742561)
You can ditch Facebook and not lose out socially. My life got a lot more social after I got off social media because there weren't easy fixes to my social needs.

Ditching reddit or hacker news is much harder. I mean, how do you even use the internet these days?

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by mod on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:05PM (#15742767)
I frequently disable reddit, and sometimes HN, in my hosts file.

I'm both happy and sad to discover that I don't even know what to do on the internet when they're not available. Happy because it forces me to do something else. Sad because I remember when I truly loved the internet, before reddit or HN, and I wonder why I don't have that love anymore.

I really don't know how to use the internet these days.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by jventura on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:39PM (#15743038)
> I really don't know how to use the internet these days.

Same for me. Nowadays when I get bored and have some unproductive time to kill, I usually surf hacker news because I can't think of any other website to read as I quit other social media websites.

It's the same happiness/sadness you mention, although the lack of options on the internet has been turning out to be more positive than negative as I've been reading much much more.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by wutbrodo on Monday November 20, 2017 @06:31PM (#15744347)
> Nowadays when I get bored and have some unproductive time to kill, I usually surf hacker news because I can't think of any other website to read as I quit other social media websites.

An RSS reader really helped me with this. Over years, I found a good handful of blogs that I find insightful more often than not, and I can reliably find something in my RSS feed when I choose to look at it. The SNR is much higher than somewhere like Reddit and Hacker News, and the lack of an account and upvotes means that a big chunk of the dopamine fix is removed.

I would be lying if I didn't mention that I occasionally feel something missing: if I read an article that I think is insightful but wrong in some important way, I miss the pressure-release valve of being able to discuss it with others (Obligatory Xkcd: https://xkcd.com/386/). But I view this more like a compulsion than a legitimate desire, akin to someone with a bad diet craving sugar.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by mod on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:52PM (#15743639)
I have turned to other things (that involve being outdoors or at least standing), but I do want to replace some misspent time with reading. I was a voracious reader in my youth, pre-internet, and I miss that. And even when comparing with HN comments--where the average quality is very high--most books just have a lot more to offer. When you add in FB and reddit, it's not even a comparison.

Sadly I find my attention span, even with a great read, has suffered greatly. I blame the internet, but maybe it's just me. It's very difficult to suffer through even a brief boring stretch now.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by 52-6F-62 on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:03PM (#15742750)
Anecdotally, my life became less social after I quit Facebook. A lot less off-the-cuff chitchat occurs now. Funny thing, though: I don't feel like I lost a great deal. I didn't lose any lasting connections with people. I just don't have the surrogate standing in for time spent together. Though I also see people less, because I don't feel pulled to others' events.

Now, I either mean to do it or I don't go. My social life certainly feels more organic:

met my girlfriend at a former job, not social media. I get invited out with her colleagues from time-to-time or we go on a date or spend time together at home or I commit my time to studying or some other enjoyment. I'd like to think I can build a new social life in that way, but maybe it's a pipe dream now.

It does feel like there's a whole other life going on that I'm not a part of sometimes.

Without the Facebook, Twitter, etc thing, the internet is either topical discussion, news, study/research, music, or nil.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by pwaai on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:35PM (#15743012)
For some people like me it doesn't matter if I have social media or not, nobody notices. I decided there are more fruitful endeavours than taking part in the commercial and absurd nature of almost all social media networks--it encourages superficial relationship with the user to drive consumerism. Selfies, group selfies, documentation of every fucking noise of things in your waking life masquerading as insight, (fuck soc-) are all aimed at you buying things from the companies that sell you a vision of life to distract you from your own intrinsic values.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by ThrustVectoring on Monday November 20, 2017 @02:50PM (#15742647)
For using Facebook for social events only, you can minimize your actual interaction with Facebook itself. I have my account set up to email me event invites, so it gets bundled together with other email-checking only. If you need/want to search for events, you can probably bookmark that page directly and visit it every week or something like that.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by JoshMnem on Monday November 20, 2017 @05:17PM (#15743824)
I'm in the process of cutting back (deleting apps, etc.) and will get a non-smartphone to replace my current phone soon. I plan to write some custom scripts to send me text messages when someone @-mentions me on Slack -- or they can send me text messages directly in an emergency.

I was an adult before Internet use was widespread, and many things were better back then. People don't really need to be connected to everyone on the planet at all times of the day.

I already left Facebook, and it was a great decision. I avoid all of their products, including their software libraries whenever possible.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by pksadiq on Monday November 20, 2017 @09:07PM (#15745006)
> I plan ....

I would recommend you to write these plans in a notebook (real notebook with pen/pencil). Write all of your plans, whenever you plan. The problem with software solutions is that once you reschedule, its history is lost.

I have such a book which has now almost run out of pages. Once a week I read them. Most of them are not yet done. But it makes me feel good, and helps me prioritize better than software solutions.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by JoshMnem on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @01:33AM (#15746103)
I recently got a small paper notebook that I carry around now. I'm moving all of my digital notes to Org Mode[1], so I'll have the history there too (git).

[1] http://orgmode.org/

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by pksadiq on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @02:44AM (#15746354)
I myself use org-mode on my system. On my phone I use orgzly[0] which may be worth looking.

[0] https://github.com/orgzly/orgzly-android

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by erikbye on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:43PM (#15743088)
> The problem is that there's nowhere to run from the Internet. I can avoid tobacco stores, I can't avoid my iPhone.

What's stopping you from not having social media apps on your phone, or even using a web browser? Nothing. Like quitting your tobacco, stop making excuses and just do it. As for social events, if none of your "friends" choose to invite you to social stuff over an SMS or a phone call if you were to quit FB, then that's not friends I'd care to keep.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by j45 on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:46PM (#15743113)
There's a few things that have minimized how much my smartphone interrupts me:

1) Accept that my phone should be working for me, and I shouldn't be working for it.

2) Disable all non call notifications except a small favorite group. Not much can't wait 15-60 minutes, and if so, they will call. I mute WhatsApp groups liberally.

3) I access facebook via web browser, at https://mbasic.facebook.com, including for instant messaging. You'll be surprised how less you use it when it's painful to use. Now I just go interact with the events I need, and take messaging offline.

4) No more push emails - that benefits no one except the person asking the questions and most often having others do their work for them.

5) Install separate chat apps for small circles of people. I use one with my wife, another with friends, WhatsApp is the generic muted text, and I have let myself have LinkedIn as an app on my phone (minus notifications) to message work stuff. Compartmentalizing helps.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by suneilp on Monday November 20, 2017 @02:47PM (#15742631)
I disabled all facebook notifications and I don't get wrapped in other notifications. I just check in on stuff from my desktop when I feel like it instead of feeling compelled to do so. If waiting in a lobby then I might do something on my phone or just cross my legs and meditate (yeah I'm odd).
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by p0nce on Monday November 20, 2017 @02:57PM (#15742703)
What I do is disable all email and desktop notification on every site I go. It's not worth the mental burden.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by lucaspiller on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @01:49AM (#15746164)
What helped me a lot was being rigorous in changing notifications so I only get alerts for important things. The defaults are really stupid, I really don’t care that “X posted a video” - why is it important and why does it need my attention NOW?

I always have my phone on silent, and the only time it even vibrates is when I receive a phone call. IM notifications are displayed on the screen, but as it doesn’t make a noise or vibrate I might not find out until a few hours later. For group chats I usually set them to muted, so I need to purposely go in and see what’s going on.

For most other apps I usually have notifications disabled, and some I have a badge count displayed - one day I will probably get around to sorting out those 2382 unread emails, but I’ve learned to ignore the 101 unlistened podcasts.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by Chathamization on Monday November 20, 2017 @10:40PM (#15745343)
I think this is a good point. People are social animals, and most of us need a community, but much of that community today is deeply tied into this modern distraction society. For instance, you mentioned quitting tobacco - I bet this is much, much harder to do in the places and times where smoking is/was an important social activity. It's not only that these distractions are everywhere, but that avoiding them can lead to some degree of isolation.

It would be nice to find some sort of community that's pushing back against these things. It's hard to do alone - for instance, when I tried going back to writing long e-mail to friends instead of merely liking Facebook posts, I got little response. People had moved on, and weren't interested in going back.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by rokhayakebe on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:07PM (#15742779)
I just ignore my phone sometimes. Nobody will ever call to give you money. I got off FB in 2010. Don't use Twitter. These things are a lot less hard than people make them to be. If some news is important it will arrive at some point.

I agree for those with children it becomes a different story.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by jjawssd on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:22PM (#15742880)
If they only use phones and really want to get through to you they will leave a voicemail. Never pick up calls from unknown numbers.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by MandieD on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:37PM (#15743517)
Maybe it’s more like a food addiction; people suffering from that cannot just absolutely drop the substance they abuse - they have to strike a balance, with temptation always in front of them, and too many people saying, “you just need to control yourself and know when to put down the fork!"

Anyone who has managed to get control back from an addiction has my admiration, but I have a special extra bit for people who are successfully coping with a food addiction.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by brucephillips on Monday November 20, 2017 @02:39PM (#15742545)
Keep it turned off until you need it on. When you're done using it, turn it off again.

This is what I do, and it's drastically reduced my information addiction.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by huntie on Monday November 20, 2017 @09:26PM (#15745075)
If you want to quit the smartphone, what I did was to set a random 10 letter password, which I kept on a piece of paper in my wallet. Change the password every 3 days.

For me this made using my phone enough of a hassle to break any habit I had. It's been a few months now and I have the password memorized, but I still almost never use my phone.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by zmj on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:37PM (#15743518)
> I have to use Facebook to stay in the loop about social events because all my friends use Facebook to schedule those social events.

Facebook has an API. Script a poll on those events and push them to somewhere you'll see them? Log in once a week to see if your script missed anything you cared about, and modify the script if yes?

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by rsync on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @10:31AM (#15748506)
"The problem is that there's nowhere to run from the Internet."

Please allow me to recommend my two favorite print magazines:

New Yorker London Review of Books

Highly recommended. Please subscribe. I read the New Yorker on my Kindle but I read LRB in print.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by agumonkey on Monday November 20, 2017 @05:28PM (#15743915)
forget the paradox of answering to that here, last month my dsl line broke down. For a week it would stabilize, then drop after a minute, repeating this forever. One day it stopped entirely and my brain expanded. Suddenly I would have to find enjoyment around me, and as most people know, suddenly time stops. Usually one might feel a dreadful bore (I used to) but this time it was relief plain and simple. At that point I know very well that a connected computer has a weird spot in ones mind, it's the source of satisfaction that is too shallow to really do so and keeps leaving you asking for more.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by ben_w on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:39PM (#15743532)
Similar problem. Accidentally broke my Nexus 5, got a 10 year old blackberry to tide myself over, and found I didn’t benefit from a smartphone.

Still have an iPad, but I’m an iOS developer. (Perhaps I should change that?)

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by aato on Monday November 20, 2017 @05:32PM (#15743953)
I might get a lot of flack for this, but the one option no one ever seems to mention in discussions like these is to “simply” cancel both your wifi and data plan. I did this almost nine months ago and neither my tech. career nor my social life has been impacted by any meaningful margin. Granted, I make more trips to Starbucks/other free wifi locations now, but my evenings are my own - they’re also significantly more peaceful.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by cousin_it on Monday November 20, 2017 @02:37PM (#15742525)
Let's start a startup making a replacement for the internet! Some kind of locked down phone that lets you communicate with people you care about, but not get high on random information. With a built-in limitation to check for emails only a few times a day. Something you could buy and then ditch all other devices without remorse.
Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by Trav5 on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:19PM (#15742867)
I got a smart watch so I could stop carrying my phone everywhere. (Gear s3 with a cell modem)

Due to idiosyncrasies in how it works, I'm now stuck with both!

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by Trav5 on Monday November 20, 2017 @07:13PM (#15744527)
Idiosyncrasies is the wrong word.

The problem is that the watch is dependent on the phone for notifications. If the phone is off the watch will not get notifications for Gmail or Google Voice. I can setup the regular mail client but the I get the Primary, Social, and Updates Inbox from gmail instead of just the primary inbox. Google voice notifications do not come at all so i miss text messages to my google voice number which is my primary/public phone number. The workaround would be to port my number back to the carrier and use the carrier for SMS/Text messages.

ATT has number sync so calls to the watch and phone will hit each other, but it is not as smooth as you would hope and gets disconnected sometimes.

Battery life is much better using bluetooth than wifi or cell connection.

Just lots of little issues that are a pain to try to work around.

My goal was for me to have access to my important notifications but not have my phone "at hand" to tempt me.

Re:Modern Media Is a DoS Attack on Free Will by alexashka on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:50PM (#15743147)
This post has a lot of hyperbole. I'd suggest you visit a third world country for some perspective.

There are plenty of people having real problems. If a phone in your pocket is the biggest problem you're having - you're not doing enough with your life.