I ended up going into some escapism mentality where if I'm not working I'm going to play video games/watch TV. It was a terrible rut until one morning I looked in the mirror and realized I'm letting life slip away. I'm not growing (well at least not in the productive way). Mind you most of those "explosive" problems were solved, but I wasn't. I freaked out, threw on some gym clothes, went to the gym, and ran. I don't even know what I was running toward. But I was running. I began lifting again, doing meal prep, back to studying, programming pet projects, reading, and it all came together.

It can hit you in waves, but one of the best ways to keep your head above water is to make sure those three things ElatedOwl mentioned are in check.

It is also gosh dang terrifying. I am not so much curing my depression + anxiety as much as I am running away and trying put enough stuff behind me that it can't catch me.

But when it does, it is difficult to get started again.

I'm not sure I like that way of looking at it. I choose to look at it like I'm an addict. Addicts, even once they're sober, consider themselves to be addicts their entire life. Any day they can fall off the wagon, even after years of sobriety, so they're constantly vigilant. I look at my depression the same way, only not doing the necessary things that keep me well is my version of falling off the wagon. Just like addicts do, I try to keep my streak of "sober" days going as long as possible. And when I slip up, I try not to beat myself up and just try to start an even longer new streak.

It's somewhat empowering to gain a little measure of control over it, even if it's really, really hard. But it's also important, I think, to realize I'll always be a depressive my entire life, even if I'm not feeling it at the moment.

I'm a runner with depression. I track my mileage, diet and general mood very closely and have started to brace myself for a depressive periods after major races.

I need redundancy with coping mechanisms, and the OCD nature of distance running is potentially setting people up for a fragile system should an injury occur or low-mileage phase crop up.

I'm writing this on a recumbent bike. I've averaged ninety minutes a day for four years without injury. I've also read a ton of books on my kindle.

Mere therapy isn't everything, but neither is only taking care of the non-brain parts of your body.

Sorry, not a grammar nazi, this one just always makes me grin :)

As an example, consider the following author’s self-cure for his bipolar II:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelellsberg/2011/07/18/how-...

Sounds pretty easy and awesome, right?

Then, read his follow-up several years later:

http://www.ellsberg.com/bipolar-ii-follow-up

In particular, notice the change in tone of his writing. Very different people speaking in each of the articles.

I want to point this out because mood cycles can sometimes last several years, and bipolar sufferers are at a higher risk of suicide. It’s not stuff that I would self-diagnose or self-treat.

But your point about bipolar II is really important. Taking anti-depressants (SSRIs) when bipolar can induce rapid cycling--a speeding up and intensifying of the depressed-elated cycle, which can be very dangerous, as I learned the hard way after being misdiagnosed. Bipolar II is often treatable (I'm deeply grateful that mine is), but with different approaches and medications than depression.

Let's fix it by being more specific, so we don't accidentally cause any more problems: "daily moderate-intensity cardiovascular exercise" (or, if you prefer, "resistance training 3x week"). Or even, "a healthy level of exercise".

I agree that therapy is a good idea, but you shouldn't need a therapist to figure this one out. A reasonable amount of exercise is good for pretty much everyone.

People with clinical depression aren't those who _can_ easily hit the gym for that dopamine rush. "Some sport is usually not a bad idea" is not the hard part, getting to the point where it can be implemented is.

And if that is the problem, and none of the pep talks on hacker news over the last few years helped, why not try the therapist?

"People with depression aren't those who can easily just hit up a therapist and continue going and get well. If that's too much of a social burden, why not try just going for a bike ride?"

I never said not to do sports (neither did the article: it merely pointed out that telling people to "_just_ do sports" may not be helpful) and I never tried to sell a silver bullet.

This is unlike the inevitable influx of comments in the style of "ignore therapy, just imitate my sports routine, and if you can't, just try harder". Those appear under _every_ depression-related submission on hacker news.

Those comments are harmful: therapy already comes with stigma, so it's not the obvious route - unlike, as you can see here, sports. Everybody proposes sports, healthy eating habits and regular sleep (btw: what about the depressed who can easily sleep 20 hours a day, should they just get one more nap?). Reinforcing the stigma around therapy discourages folks from taking a route that might help them.

The "just try harder" angle that's all too often seen in such comments is also harmful: What do you think did those people do (often for years) before they consciously consider that something might be wrong with them? Exactly: they buckled up and tried harder - and they will continue until they crack unless something changes fundamentally.

This is not accurate, depression is just not clear cut like that. A depressed person can be fully high-functioning from the outside, even...

Quite a few people don't exercise for other reasons (time, aversion), in fact, I'd say those are all much more likely reasons than depression, but may also lead to depression.

Like any sickness, you talk to a health professional and figure out what treatments work. Going your own sucks and is a bad time regardless of how highly-functioning you are.

"Ok, if you say so" and "of course". But the general advice to do some exercises and the advice to exercise "to counter depression" are two completely different things.

I'm trying to be as neutral as possible here: If a friend of yours needs help, please don't tell them that they "shouldn't need a therapist to figure [out a way out]". Psychology ain't an exact science even though most "science journalism" wants you make to believe that. So, whatever "wisdom" one picks up, treat it with a grain^Wbag of salt.

EDIT: parent was edited the substantially & while my principal response still holds, I would not even have responded to a response as hyperbolic as the parent is now.

I can recall clearly what it would have been like (for me personally at least) were I in a strongly depressive state: I'd read the comment warning me about exercise, then I'd be afraid to exercise at all.

By framing exercise as a risky behavior based on a few exceptional anecdotes, the poster does depressed readers a disservice. It's relatively established that depressed people are more risk averse in general[1][2], and exercise also has well established benefits in treating symptoms of depression (I shouldn't have to cite sources for this one). The benefits far outweigh the risks.

1: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2590786/

2: https://www.nesda.nl/nesda/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Wiersm...

Lots of people have unidentified health issues. Underlying health issues can cause low energy, which can be mistaken for depression.

Maybe you are both right!

If you have depression, and regular exercise and good diet doesn't help you, look for other solutions.

Too many people assume that getting the right balance of both will solve the problem, so they keep tweaking and tweaking the wrong solution.

It's like saying "Don't eat salad, I know someone that ate so much lettuce they got sick."

Which is dead wrong. Exercise is good for humans, depressed or not.

You also said, "Before I turned twenty I met two people my age who took your advice and exercised until ambulances had to pick them up (literally). "

...apparently as a warning that exercise is dangerous. But as you can see, it's a ridiculous statement.

Sure, people should see a therapist. They should also exercise. Go for a walk. Move around. They should also gain some sleep discipline. Those are easy to start with. There's no mutual exclusion here. Just because someone is exercising and sleeping right, does not mean they cannot talk to a therapist.

Generally, hopefully, most people will do exercise more or less "right", but this is not a safe assumption.

Quoting the UiA, "One [1988] study indicates that 70% of therapists had seen for treatment at least one patient who had had sex with a previous therapist. Of the latter, 96% were male." [1]

I guess the moral of my comment is - be careful giving advice (period)

1: http://encyclopedia.uia.org/en/problem/143464

This explores the topic in a more meaningful way, and links sources. https://kspope.com/sexiss/research5.php#a8studies

Running is weak also, but insomuch as all you can do is fight and claw your way out of depression[^], long runs, in my experience, can aid to some degree.

[^]Which may very well be a symptom of something(s) we don't understand yet, rather than a disease.

For me, it was months jobless and isolated at a parent's house in the middle of nowhere.

For others, not battling means not getting out of bed, and for people facing other "demons" (what a bad word) not fighting might mean to continue to consume drugs or alcohol, or to keep not eating, or eating too much.

For me, it goes "I'm feeling depressed. Okay, I feel depressed. That's interesting. Now what is it that I must do right now at this moment? Get out of bed. Okay, done. I'm still depressed, but what's next?"

In other words, I don't bother fighting it or avoiding it. I just acknowledge it and then figure what needs to be done next.

To me, that is fighting.

Could be this is a cultural problem. In our culture we’re supposed to like work and everybody is expected to shut up.

There's a difference between psychologists and psychiatrists, and the article even spells it out.

"I can't get out of bed" "You should exercise" Ugh...

- Magnesium has been shown to improve „untreatable“ depression, and for me it does wonders. I use it transdermally because oral Mg gives me diarrhea. This can turn my mood around 100% in minutes.

- Near Infrared light is generally really really good for you, and I expect it to become a standard (or at least auxiliary) treatment for many diseases. Most studies have been done with LLLT (lasers), but literature suggests that standard LED diodes work almost as well, at least for cells at the surface. Buy a 850nm CCTV infrared floodlight and point it at various organs and your forehead; and buy some 250W infrared lamps, screw them into a wood board and sit in front of this for a couple of minutes naked. Add sthg like the Vitalux lamp for the extra Vit D kick. Insta mood and energy improvement that lasts up to several days—it feels like having been at the beach.

- If you are a low serotonin type, you could get your md to prescribe serotonin tablets (I haven’t), but in the meantime, dark chocolate could also do it. The crucial thing though is to keep the supply steady. I have to wean off the chocolate after a few days.

- PEMF (haven’t tried that yet) has also been reported to work: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20385376/

There is a PEMF device called ICES that is affordable (about $400 last time I looked).

"sleep, proper diet, exercise" are necessary, but may often not be sufficient. Medication, when assessed by a qualified psychiatrist may be required. Therapy (if the depression is due to an event in the past) may also be required,

Finding which drugs work for you is hit or miss; finding a therapist who can guide you is also hit or miss; they can take time. But please don't dismiss medication & therapy. They are often required for many people.

I've just noticed that sleeping, proper diet, and exercise are things that just keep me in motion. I guess one way to cope is to just build momentum.

At the very least, I can say that I feel satisfied about things that I've accomplished, even if I still don't feel great about myself. And that is at least enough to keep me getting out of bed every morning instead of moping around.

I think it depends on how deep down the hole you are, plus clearly some things work better for others.

I'd highly suggest that people look at mindfulness based cognitive therapy. That can build the tools that will make it possible to get back on track. It can also make a huge mental difference to bring people from "kinda sad but doing ok because of good sleep/diet/exercise habits" to actually being able to enjoy life.

I bike commute and also work out before work every day, but I can't say it has a particularly large effect on my mood.

My darkest days were long before I drank; then again, adolescence is a particularly hard time anyway.

I can say, though, that making these changes at any point in my life would have been a vast improvement. Sleep and nutrition help me view life in a much better lens and exercise gives me a structured, constructive outlet and scheduled time for reflection.

People mean well, and I never try to belittle people trying to do good, but in these situations people project their own feelings and motivations and then declare what needs to change in the other person's situation. But physical exercise and taking the trouble to eat right itself is a major barrier when you find it tough just getting out of bed.

It is essentially saying "stop being depressed and you won't be depressed".

I think diet and exercise can do wonders for mild and maybe even moderate depression but the odds that it can cure severe depression are very, very small. It's dangerously simplistic to say "you just need some exercise, man."

I've been writing an article in the past few days that explain why movement is so critical to fighting depression.

Still, this author's experience resonates with me in the sense that I get that taking drugs is a way to fix the depression problem.

When depression is that crippling and intense, it just doesn't seem like any one thing can help. Like you said, it's baby steps, and if drugs and therapy are on the menu along with exercise and nutrition, then all the better.

At some point, I'll be exploring the really hard causes of depression, those that come from society's own anguish.

In any case, being personally fit will add immeasurably to your mental fortitude, and events that would otherwise bowl you over won't.

https://medium.com/@geoffrey.ducharme/depression-you-can-cur...

Looking back on it from my thirties, I've come to the conclusion that most of my problem was disturbed sleep patterns, and the rest was unhealthy thought patterns that became self-perpetuating.

Medication didn't help me in the slightest, just made me worse. Getting some sleep and engaging with the world around me is what made all the difference. I'm skeptical of the value of anti-depressants, and some of the side-effects are deeply troubling.

The problem is that when I was in the midst of a depressive episode, I wasn't capable of fixing those things. Telling a depressed person that they just need to think happier thoughts, get some sleep, take a bath, go for a walk is utterly pointless.

I KNOW continuous exercise helps, however outside of the above forced circumstance I'm suspicious at this point that I exercise when I'm feeling better and not the other way around..

That's the problem people without depression don't necessarily understand; feeling good often precipitates exercise, and feeling bad often precipitates lethargy. Lethargy so bad you can feel it. I mean REALLY feel it. You can actually feel this lack of motivation working against your desire to do stuff. It's identifiable, experienceable, and yet so oppressive you can't work against it. I would liken it to people freezing in a life-or-death situation; it doesn't make much sense and you wouldn't think it would happen to you, but it's right there and real for no good reason.

EDIT: I would be happy to answer any questions about how depression/anxiety has affected me or my thoughts on it.

I used to say to myself "just put your running gear on. You don't have to leave the house. But you can put your running gear on".

then "OK, now go outside. You don't have to run. Just go outside"

some days I would turn around and go back in. And I've have to be OK with that, too. No point beating myself up for it. Some days were not running days.

once outside, I'd be "OK, now run to the end of the street". If I could do that, then most of the time I'd be off and could do 5 km's.

Some days I'd get to the end of the street and stop.

The temptation to beat myself up for the bad days was immense. Huge. Everything in my schooling and upbringing told me that I should just push through the reluctance and "just do it!". But for me, down that road lies worse depression. Being able to say to myself "today is not a running day, and that's OK" was a path out of the intense self-criticism that got me depressed in the first place.

It didn't help that exercise had been used as a punishment in school - "you boy, you're late, run twice around the field!". My schooling had taught me that exercise was punishment. I found it hard to run because I felt like I was punishing myself for something. But if I didn't run then I would criticise myself.

I've got a better handle on it now. Some days I run. Some days I don't. It's up to me. I enjoy running, and enjoy how it makes me feel, so I do it more often than not. But if I don't want to, I won't, and no-one has the right to criticise me for that. Not even me ;)

So far the only thing that’s actually worked has been staying busy/productive/creative, good nutrition, exercise etc.

Everyone always tells me I’m an insensitive dick when i suggest getting off their ass and doing stuff to treat their depression. But fuck it, that shit works. Yes it’s hard to get started and your depression makes it even harder, but that is literally irrelevant, you gotta do it anyway.

And yes dear downvoters, I will never stop saying this: Changing your lifestyle to treat depression works. If enduring your downvotes helps me get the message to at least 1 person, worth it.

And to the common criticism that "Oh you just had teenage depression that doesn't count". The scars all over my body that I get to look at for the rest of my life disagree with your "just".

It might take a long time to build up but the hardest part really is the first part. Hope this helps someone :)

I did (and am still doing) all of those lifestyle changes and it didn't help me in the slightest. So much for that theory.

Not that people shouldn't try lifestyle changes but they are not the magic cure-all you're selling them as.

And as other have pointed out, depression isn’t super curable, it’s more like going in remission. I liken it to addiction as well. Stop doing the things that keep it at bay? Boom there it is, comes right back.

Just like an addict makes an active decision every day to not do their thing, so too must I actively do things that keep the depression away.

No magic, just hard work,

Seriously.

The biggest screw up we all make about mental health is the assumption that the thing that works for one person is the thing that works for another. I would have hoped that someone who has been through treatment would understand that, but here you are spouting the "get your life in order and it'll all be dandy, it worked for me!" crap that's so unhelpful in the first place to people with mental illness.

Everyone is different with this stuff. Everyone needs different treatment. You are not a mental health professional. Do not say shit like this and not expect to be called on it.

No it won’t all be dandy. But it helps.

Or at least it’s what I’ve seen help the most people I know who are or have been depressed. At the end of the day, the main thing to do is to not give in to depression.

That thing wants you to sit on the couch and feel sorry for yourself. That’s like one of the main symptoms. Fighting that urge helps make it go away eventually.

I mean, shit, even the super-OP, Zach whose post we're commenting on, said that he had to keep taking meds and going to therapy for a few months before he saw results. Do you think doing it just once then saying "Fuck this shit, this doesn't work for me, therapy doesn't work. I tried it and it did nothing". Do you think that would've worked?

The day I stopped viewing myself as an ideality rather than reality, the day I realized everything I thought, felt, believed, and did was me and absolutely none of it wasn't, was the day I found an ability to change instead of deny.

Also, I'd say it is very easy to approach this with a defeatist attitude (consciously or unconsciously) if you have a belief that you are sick. Only time can fix a broken bone, so if your mind is broken, can you really change it - is it a futile effort to try?

Don't listen to a nut on the internet, though.

Yes.

I can’t imagine you think that’s reasonable... I think it would be more helpful if people stopped throwing this sort of advice around like it’s useful to people

I’ve argued things like what you’re arguing before but really I was just afraid to think otherwise, could you be feeling the same way? I don’t think that’s a sustainable strategy though so here I am, arguing the other way. It was harder to think that way than this - less natural

Yeah you're probably right.

I guess what bothers me about the whole thing are the 2 or 3 years of my life I spent vehemently disagreeing with everyone who gave me This Advice and telling them that it doesn't work and they need to fuck right off. Then when I actually legit gave it a chance, it worked.

Maybe I just got lucky. Maybe the therapy worked more than I think and it's what enabled me to give This Advice a chance. I'll never know, it's not like I can A/B test.

Your tips are a little insulting to someone truly suffering. There is a difference between feeling bummed out to feeling like you shouldn't be alive any longer.

It's been a bit under three years already; no joy.

Your theory just plain doesn't hold water. Sure would be nice if it did, though.

People with major depression want to kill ourselves anyway. I don’t really see any style of tempered advice as being harmful in itself. What’s really harmful is socially pressuring anybody to stick to any approach they find to be harmful for themselves.

Going to a mental health professional requires time to see results. It also requires being with the right person. Medication won't instantly make you feel better (for longer than the short term), it requires the correct dosage, correct type, etc. The "working out, eating right, plenty of sleep" method may show results but it also takes a lot of time and persistence to see those results.

I am not saying that any of these solutions will work for everyone. I am just saying that any of these solutions takes trial and error. Some people go see a therapist once, don't make a connection, and declare that it doesn't work for them. It will take time. It is a process. Again, everyone is different and need to find what works for them, but whatever it is, they need to stick with it. I know it can be overbearing, but it comes from a place of compassion and concern. No one who cares about you wants to see you depressed. How would you prefer that they approach it?

for you -- you have no idea whether it'll work for anyone else.

Since depression is a potentially fatal illness, and you appear not to have any training in psychiatry, psychology, psychotherapy, medicine, pharmacology, you should maybe recognise your limits.

> Changing your lifestyle to treat depression works

Only for some people. you have no idea how many people it does work for, and you have no idea how many people it doesn't work for, so you might want to avoid judging people who don't take your advice.

I was sleeping, exercising, eating well, just fine. My life was in order.

Starting to take an SSRI literally just switched off my mental illness.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21495519/

http://www.cochrane.org/CD004366/DEPRESSN_exercise-for-depre...

> Exercise is moderately more effective than no therapy for reducing symptoms of depression.

[...]

> The reviewers also note that when only high-quality studies were included, the difference between exercise and no therapy is less conclusive.

[...]

> The evidence about whether exercise for depression improves quality of life is inconclusive.

Exercise is moderately more effective than a control intervention for reducing symptoms of depression, but analysis of methodologically robust trials only shows a smaller effect in favour of exercise. When compared to psychological or pharmacological therapies, exercise appears to be no more effective, though this conclusion is based on a few small trials.

Sleep, eat well, keep active. Nothing about that advice is dangerous. But it is hard to do if you aren't in the habit of doing it. (I know what you're going to say next, "but chemicals in the brain!" What do you think sleeping, healthy dieting, and keeping active are trying to fix?)

As far as I know, outside of crappy studies it's rare for a single intervention to even work for a majority of compliant patients/clients, let alone everyone. This is probably related to the notion of "depression" actually being multiple illnesses that share a common syndrome.

except if the response to "I tried, but it doesn't work for me" is "your depression makes it even harder, but that is literally irrelevant".

Your parent post didn't leave enough room for "try something else, but don't forget these once you're fit enough".

In my experience dealing with depressed people, me included, there’s a huge spectrum in what “tried” means.

Doing it once won’t help much. Forcing yourself to consistently do it every day for 2 years? Now we’re talking.

If after 2 years of doing things that are known to up your spirits in at least some segment of the population every day you still don’t see absolutely any results, then you get to say it doesn’t work.

After all, you wouldn’t expect antidepressants to work unless you take them every day.

If you’re on meds and some days you feel like taking them and others you don’t, and you actually follow that schedule. Do you expect those meds to work?

It’s not the trying and it not working that doesn’t matter. It’s the not feeling like doing things that doesn’t matter. Gotta do it anyway. Whether it's exercise, taking meds, or going to therapy. If you don't do it, it can't help.

>if you’re on meds ...

Have you considered that the people in this thread saying it doesn’t work aren’t just saying “it’s hard”?

67% of college kids are suffering acute anxiety, is 67% of the college populations only problem a lack of excercise? Your insistence on these things is frustrating and obnoxious. The people who called you insensitive have very good cause, I hope that doesn’t make you proud.

Also, is discipline even a good thing? Do you think cave men said “well I have to hunt 5 hours a day...”? Probably not, or we wouldn’t have agriculture. Discipline seems like a substitute for ludditetism.

Also! Advice like this live and die by how hard they are to follow. If your advice is so hard to follow for te depressed that they won’t do it, it’s much harder to be proven wrong.

Sorry to rant but this advice is upsetting to me.

Yes I have.

My attitude is probably influenced by personal experience in dealing with depressed people. So far every time I’ve been observing someone long term, and they said “it doesn’t work”, they rarely kept at it for more than a month at a time here and there.

It is possible that everyone in this thread is different and kept at it for a long time consistently and it didn’t help.

And I never said “only exercise”, I said Do Things. Hang out with people, work on projects, make art, enjoy friends, go to a bar, see a movie, travel. Whatever as long as you’re not sitting on the couch giving in to your depression.

> this advice is upsetting to me

People I love sitting on the couch rotting from depression is upsetting to me.

I have a genetic disorder. It was not properly diagnosed until I was nearly 36 years old. So, I spent the first 36 years of my life hearing that I was just lazy and not trying hard enough.

You being unable to fix someone else by brilliantly suggesting what worked for you is not definitive evidence that they simply aren't trying hard enough. That underlying attitude is monstrously arrogant and insulting to other people.

The world does not revolve around you. You being upset because someone else is "sitting on the couch rotting" does not give you the right to harangue people until they prove your pet theory correct that they just need to try harder.

https://chriskresser.com/the-chemical-imbalance-myth/ http://www.brown.uk.com/diagnosis/france.pdf

You can't claim that sleeping, eating, and exercising are "fixing" chemicals in the bain any more than people can claim chemical imbalance causes mental illness. There is no baseline for what normal chemical levels are.

No, the medical community calls it "evidence based medicine".

I've posted links to well run meta analysis by an organisation widely regarded as providing the gold standard for medical evidence.

other people are posting "it worked for me" - exactly what we hear from people who try crystal healing or homeopathy.

> Sleep, eat well, keep active. Nothing about that advice is dangerous.

Depression is a potentially fatal illness. If people are not getting evidence based treatment because they're following advice from people who don't know what they're talking about, those people may become more ill, and they may find it harder to seek help, and they may then die by suicide. suicide is a leading cause of death in men under 49, and in all people between ages 20-35 (in UK, and probably in us if they used same definition).

> (I know what you're going to say next, "but chemicals in the brain!"

A lazy assumption, I've never said "brain chemicals". I've always said "bio-psycho-social".

- Regular good sleep. Go to bed and wake up at the same time every day.

- Good exercise every day. This will help with the sleep too.

- Eat healthy food on a consistent schedule

- Avoid alcohol

- If you don't get much sun, check your Vit D levels and take supplements if needed

These things will almost always make big difference. If you're still strugging you need to see a psychologist or try some medication. Medication is hit and miss so you'll probably need to experiment with different types to find something that works for you. And of course some people just don't respond to depression medication at all. Cognitive behavioural therapy is often helpful and there are other therapy options too.

Depression is multi-faceted and you will usually need a variety of treatments to get the best results.

Some people recover and go back to normal, but many sufferers will have manage it for their whole lives.

The only thing I really do on that list is avoid alcohol. If I am in a good swing, I can sleep at regular times, but I don't exercise. I eat whatever is around really, and in severe down times I've been kicked out of college or lost jobs because I couldn't leave bed to eat or use the bathroom until it was unbearable, let alone leave my house. I also normally ate around a meal a day, at 5pm or so and might have had some apple slices, grapes, or something similar before.

The only thing that has ever helped is medication. I have bouts of severe paranoia & hallucinations, but haven't mentioned it to anyone. Lamotrigine & Methylphenidate have been the most helpful, taking me from 5-15% functioning on an average day to 80% or higher. That's worked for me for 5-6 months, but over a month I noticed that my methylphenidate became less effective, and to improve it I had to redose during the day. This was a self-medicating (horrible, i know) method, but then it came to me running out of it for the rest of the month (10 or so days.) So I was low functioning then, but I still had my lamotrigine, so I was around 30%. Then I got my refill and started my day out, and ended up feeling nothing... So I redosed, and still after an appropriate amount of time felt nothing. I kept redosing for the next 40 hours until I had taken 500+ mgs of methylphenidate. I even spent time researching and turned it into IR methylphenidate, and even boofed 81mg of it at one point. Not my greatest hour. I finally passed out at about 60 hours or so, thank god. Then I woke up and realized what happened. That was yesterday. I'm still trying to find out what to do. I've been looking for people with my combination of bipolar II and adhd for input, but I fear that with my hallucinations and paranoia that have come and gone my entire life, there may be more wrong. I don't see an issue with upping my dosage of methylphenidate, but swapping to another med is what I feel may be a better option, but I also fear that my condition will worsen, as only the combination of methylphenidate & lamotrigine helps. I've been considering dexmethylphenidate, but definitely am trying to find more answers.

Exercise itself has never produced results for me. Generally, it meant I was still stuck in the house doing something I hated. I haven't always had the luxury of going on regular walks or anything like that. I don't get a rush from being physical. Until recently, I couldn't even afford sports bras for running. Without the bras, anything too "jumpy" was physically painful. (I wear a special size, even when thin like I am now, and they generally cost between $60 and $100 when I can find them. Pre-internet, I simply couldn't find them).

All this said, having better physical health does help a bit. But eating well and feeling some pride that you've changed your diet for good? Yeah, that has benefits. The hardest part was finding the combination that worked for me (mostly vegetarian with the exception of fish). Losing weight? Yeah, that had definitely helped (I, too, have lost a great deal of weight and kept it off for years). Walking as a main form of transportation? That is my physical activity and I take some pride in being able to do it regularly. I still hate exercise for the sake of exercise, though.

It definitely wasn't a cure at all - that took actually changing my life. And it was hard. And i'm gonna guess that your exercise was a combination of things - like being able to use the coping mechanisms better. Simply growing up (I started a lot of my life changes in my late 20's, and I'm 39 now) I got out of a bad, stressful relationship with a schizophrenic man. I learned that a lot of the negative feedback I had gotten from others over the years wasn't necessarily true and the few friends I have are positive influence. Heck, I actually have a couple friends that aren't family.

Some of it was pure luck - I wound up moving overseas to a place that I fit in better than I did in small-to-medium towns in the midwest. I'm able to completely be myself at home: A weird bisexual artist that spends a lot of free time at home. I learned how to relax.

Admittedly, I'd not recommend some of what I've done to folks since I'm pretty partial to hallucinogens and visit Amsterdam every once in a while, both with my spouse and by myself. I'm gonna guess some of my crap wasn't depression, though - I completely understand why MDMA is seeming like a wonder drug to the researchers. I had a marked change in thought process after doing it once. By the time I tried it, though, I had already come a long way.

- Catholic: adoration

- Protestant: centering prayer

- Buddhism: Zazen

- Islam: contemplation

A friend who had been through something similar recommended the simple fix of sleep, diet (basically just more plants, more animal protein, way less sugar, and way less alcohol), weightlifting, and sunlight. After about a year or so I felt completely fine. I look great, feel great, and my career is back on track. It's obviously just a single person's experience but I'm inclined to believe the majority of "depression" cases can be fixed by this.

Furthermore, treating it as a disease rather than just a bad mood made it _way_ worse, as I was able to rationalize the fact that my life was crippled by it and that was ok because it was a disease and my hands were tied. Once I treated it as something I could fix I made vast improvements.

I don't know that I'd say I have a source of depression, I'm not sure my circumstances have an effect.

Disclaimer: I'm not a doc, don't take my word on anything or listen to me.

Exercise makes you eat differently and sleep out of exhaustion earlier, you also wake up a bit sore but somehow replenished; which makes you seek slightly more active things.

I found those to be the most useful.

As far as breathwork, fitness is almost a form of meditation for me so I think there's some overlap. Running and lifting gives a lot of inner monologue and self reflection time.

If you do experiment, avoid the enthusiast's trap of trying to sample as many different cocktails as you can. Whether it's a maturity or a cultural thing, there are many temptations to 'max out' on the intensity of the experience, which I think are unhelpful.

As for the therapy aspect, it's wiser to dose with an experienced person present who can help you if you feel distressed, but if a therapist is proposing to script the whole trip then it won't really be 'your' trip any more.

Breathwork < > fitness. Breathwork, specifically Holotropic Breathwork, was developed by an Md as an alternative to LSD psychotherapy after prohibition began.

I'm happy to discuss more privately as I know these things can be very personal.

[email protected]

It’s also a good excuse to get out of the house, do minimum socialising and just observing the world around you. No expectations like performance measures and salaries either - your job is to just give a little.

Thankfully it's not an issue for me anymore, but those "fixes" were total crap (for me) when it was.

Are you sure you are not one of those people who confuse being moody with clinically depressed? Self pity isn't really high on the list of symptoms.

For instance my understanding of clinical depression is people often have suicidal ideation. I had that, would imagine throwing myself out a window, down the side of a mountain, etc. But I never would follow through because I noticed how my depression filtered my view of the world, and once the feeling passed things did not seem so bad. It would be horrible to make such a final decision as suicide, since it guaranteed my life would not improve, even though my depression told me it never would. Plus, believing I could go to hell for suicide helped keep me from doing it, and concern for how it would affect those I love. Finally, it seemed like such a selfish decision.

Clinically depressed people are numb for life, they are not wailing in self pity.

Depression makes it hard to do anything and can be rooted in other issues that physically make it hard to do anything.

Some people find their way out, but there is a reason why the doldrums has come to have the meaning it has.

The doldrums is a colloquial expression derived from historical maritime usage, which refers to those parts of the Atlantic Ocean and the Pacific Ocean affected by the Intertropical Convergence Zone, a low-pressure area around the equator where the prevailing winds are calm. The doldrums are also noted for calm periods when the winds disappear altogether, trapping sailing ships for periods of days or weeks.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doldrums

Just like sailors once got stuck due to lack of winds, people with depression sometimes just get stuck. If they can find a means to get unstuck, awesome! But we don't know how to readily fix this. We know some things that sometimes help some people. But there is no slam dunk solution guaranteed to work.