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Re:Amazon Flex by suvelx on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @08:58AM (#10295869)
I've got a suspicion that Amazon has been trialling/building this in the UK since their purchase of Yodel, perhaps earlier. A number of times some bloke in a car has turned up and delivered me a package. No uniform, no branding. Just a phone running Amazon software.

I can't say it's the greatest experience.

Re:Amazon Flex by thieving_magpie on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @01:15PM (#10297766)
Man I couldn't care less who hands me my package if it arrives intact and on time.

I'm not looking for a "delivery experience".

Re:Amazon Flex by digikata on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @02:38PM (#10298494)
Isn't the probability of something going wrong higher if the delivery infrastructure isn't staffed with full time people? I would guess that mishandling, loss, misdelivery, theft would all be more likely under the flex model.
Re:Amazon Flex by tzier on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @02:57PM (#10298649)
The issue rates aren't as high as the media leads you to believe. For example, Airbnb has a policy with Lloyds for any catastrophic events, but they actually don't have that many issues and so just pay for them themselves when they happen. (Or at least this used to be the case.) The media just sensationalizes it when something goes wrong, so you fall into availability bias.

Plus, your costs are offset by having labor cost be variable instead of fixed, not paying benefits, etc. So if your margin is 10% higher as a result and you have a 5% increase in issues, you still come out better.

Re:Amazon Flex by fweespeech on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @06:07PM (#10300117)
http://ejroundtheworld.blogspot.com/2011/07/airbnb-nightmare...

> If the “her” he is referring to is me, then the first part of this statement is false (the second I cannot attest to). During the first week of my nightmare, the customer service team at Airbnb was - as I stated in my June 29 blog post – helpful, caring and supportive. In particular, one customer service manager - and the company’s freelance photographer - were wonderfully kind to me, and both should know how grateful I am.

> And since June 30? On this same day, I received a personal call from one of the co-founders of Airbnb. We had a lengthy conversation, in which he indicated having knowledge of the (previously mentioned) person who had been apprehended by the police, but that he could not discuss the details or these previous cases with me, as the investigation was ongoing. He then addressed his concerns about my blog post, and the potentially negative impact it could have on his company’s growth and current round of funding. During this call and in messages thereafter, he requested that I shut down the blog altogether or limit its access, and a few weeks later, suggested that I update the blog with a “twist" of good news so as to “complete[s] the story”.

> Look, despite what some of you are saying, I am not an idiot. I understand why Airbnb called me and asked me to bring this story to an end; it is in their best profitable interest to do so. Unfortunately for me – 5 weeks and counting – there is no end in sight. Too much about this case remains unknown and unresolved, and according to both the District Attorneys and the police, it could be many more months before the criminal investigation moves forward.

> And for those who have so generously suggested a donation fund be set up to help me recover, I thank you from the bottom of my heart, and suggest that instead, you keep the money and use it to book yourself into a nice, safe hotel room the next time you travel. You’ll be glad you did.

I'll just leave this here.

https://www.airbnb.com/host-protection-insurance

> Effective January 15, 2015, if a guest is injured in a listing or elsewhere on the building property during a stay, the Host Protection Insurance program provides coverage for Airbnb hosts and, where applicable, their landlords under a general commercial liability policy.

There are a variety of gaps, and have been, where AirBnb and/or its insurance failed to cover things. It isn't until this year that insurance coverage was anywhere close to what I'd consider acceptable and basic. It still isn't "complete" as far as what I'd use for my rental property.

Re:Amazon Flex by vhold on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @04:20PM (#10299328)
I think Amazon already operates on a risk-taking model for package delivery. When I first started using Prime it was very conservative about requiring signatures, and overtime that became relaxed and I'd come home to find packages on my doorstep. Now sometimes they aren't even at my door, but instead downstairs away from my apartment. I think they'll just keep taking more risks to save money until they start losing packages.
Re:Amazon Flex by twistedpair on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @04:53PM (#10299551)
Amazon (ala UPS) requires signatures for the most random things. I get a $500 phone left on the porch, but a $2 cat toy requires a 2mi drive to a local quickie mart drop of facility because it needs a sig. From what I've heard, the signature requirement is driven my Amazon's merchants, not by them, so it's a crap shoot.
Re:Amazon Flex by works_remote_ on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @05:37PM (#10299871)
There has been more than once where a package will fail to be delivered in a timely manner (the website indicates its been out for delivery for 5+ days), and they have always overnighted a replacement without charge or expectation that if the original shows up that I return it to them.

These missing packages have been primarily from when UPS/FedEx decides to use a last mile delivery service, instead of delivering it themselves, which is primarily staffed by low wage workers with frighteningly high turnover.

Re:Amazon Flex by johnmaguire2013 on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @06:07PM (#10300118)
I find it far more frustrating when one of the last mile delivery services says they have delivered the package, and then it shows up a day or two later.

Amazon hasn't honored the two day guarantee for me in these instances.

Re:Amazon Flex by kornholi on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @06:56PM (#10300404)
FedEx marked one of my packages as delivered but it didn't show up until 6 days later (the replacement arrived on the same day...). I assume someone just forgot about it on the truck, since the other one was actually delivered on time.
Re:Amazon Flex by learc83 on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @07:38PM (#10300655)
I've had far more problems with FedEx than with the contractors who deliver Prime Now.

FedEx (unlike UPS) routinely delivers packages a day late, and they often leave packages in front of my garage door (where they can get rained on) with no notification.

Re:Amazon Flex by vhold on Wednesday September 30, 2015 @02:09PM (#10305892)
I've found that the way they honor this guarantee is that you simply return it for the reason "Did not arrive on time" and you get a refund.

I've done it once because it didn't arrive on Friday, wouldn't come until Monday, and I wanted it for that weekend so I just went out and bought it and returned what Amazon delivered Monday. I felt kinda guilty but when it came Monday it looked like it was run over by a truck anyways, as in, had actual tire tracks on it.

Re:Amazon Flex by manigandham on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @05:42PM (#10299921)
Why? What are you basing this on?

Why would part-time people be any less responsible? They have less to deal with, more time to deliver, use their own car, choose their schedule, and set the radius and familiarity of their route. I'd expect them to make better deliveries and more accurately.

Uber/Lyft have shown this model works fine.

Re:Amazon Flex by Steko on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @06:00PM (#10300065)
Because problems inevitably occur and with full time staff it's more likely the delivery person has seen the problem 1000 times and knows exactly how to handle it optimally. In addition to knowing the ins and outs of your office or apartment, perhaps even recognizing you by name.

> I'd expect them to make better deliveries and more accurately.

I wouldn't. I'd expect the additional supply would get you faster, cheaper delivery at the expense of accuracy and a slight increase in other problems. I'm not against that trade off but there's no need to pretend it doesn't exist.

> Uber/Lyft have shown this model works fine.

Uber/Lyft and particularly Lyft where you're less likely to get an experienced professional, have shown that the model is not without it's tradeoffs.

Re:Amazon Flex by manigandham on Wednesday September 30, 2015 @02:11AM (#10302093)
What is the tradeoff with uber/lyft? I still get where I'm going but it's often cheaper, more comfortable and just as fast (or faster) than previous options.

I don't see how accuracy is going to be a problem. These people aren't driving across the country with hundreds of items and it would be very much in their interest to make sure the right thing is delivered to the right person.

I think the "experienced professional" of a shipping carrier driver is vastly overrated here. Just what, exactly, do they do that can't be done by another part-time person?

Re:Amazon Flex by digikata on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @07:34PM (#10300629)
I'm basing it on a rough mental model.

Let's assume there is zero difference between the quality of full time people and part time people, but, being people there is distribution of people that a) need to be trained over time to handle certain on-the-job situations (e.g. dog in yard, etc...), and b) the system needs time (or some number of deliveries) to discover that some people are basically not fit for the position - including people signed up with the intent to scam the system. Let's compare two groups of employees, a full-time group and a part-time group.

The first thing that might surface in this model is that the part-time group requires more people to fill the same number of deliveries that the full time group can fulfill. So, in terms of numbers of bad deliveries, you'll have more failures just because you had to draw a larger number of individuals for the part-time pool vs the full time - even if quality of individuals for the full time vs part-time are exactly the same.

Adding further assumptions doesn't improve things. Maybe one might assume that part-time employees are more likely to move on to other jobs and leave the Flex workforce - well that's more churn and you get more people in category b, and more people temporarily needing training/experience. Maybe the distributions aren't exactly the same between full time and part time - one might theorize that scammers are more likely to take jobs under flex (maybe even under multiple aliases to keep from getting caught)... again this makes the performance under Flex worse...

Maybe even given the quality differences, it only ends up making sense to offer Flex delivery on the periphery of where it doesn't make cost sense to install or expand full-time infrastructure.

Re:Amazon Flex by TranquilMarmot on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @02:44PM (#10298552)
But it would also be a lot easier to track what happened to that package and pinpoint a specific individual for the loss/theft/misdelivery, since Amazon has the driver's personal info, GPS location, and list of packages that they are delivering.
Re:Amazon Flex by digikata on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @02:51PM (#10298601)
How is that tracking different for a full time person vs a person who works for flex? Basically full time employment makes the workforce more sticky, and whatever performance quality process you run with the workforce will retrain or remove people who don't perform.

With flex, it's likely the same quality process, only the workforce is larger and more likely to churn. So no matter what the performance of the quality process it has some non-zero time to detect and correct worker performance, so I don't see how one avoids a larger rate of delivery faults just from the workforce dynamics.

Re:Amazon Flex by makomk on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @04:57PM (#10299576)
Yodel (formerly the Home Delivery Network) used this model in the UK for years and were infamously bad. This may well be why they changed their name.
Re:Amazon Flex by chipperyman573 on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @06:03PM (#10300089)
That's just one company, though. It might be awful because of their specific policies.
Re:Amazon Flex by murbard2 on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @02:46PM (#10298560)
Amazon will most likely cover such problems, no questions asked. They will be defrauded more, for sure, but they gain a possibly gigantic network of distributors.
Re:Amazon Flex by digikata on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @02:53PM (#10298613)
But the customer 'hassle' rate just went up, your internal efficiency also went down by whatever it cost to fix the problem, so there had better be some big benefits to this method showing up in other areas.
Re:Amazon Flex by andreasklinger on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @03:52PM (#10299083)
i want to agree with you but a lot of "professional" "fulltime" delivery companies i had trouble with provided more than sub-par customer care.

i even have a black list of delivery companies i try to avoid (when purchasing from amazon vendors)

Re:Amazon Flex by hkmurakami on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @05:01PM (#10299592)
The OnTrac experience is already so bad that I can't imagine it really becoming that much worse.
Re:Amazon Flex by dorward on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @03:55PM (#10299119)
It's the "on time" bit that is important.

I've spent whole weekends waiting in at home for a delivery from Amazon Logistics only to get emails at 7pm each evening telling me they tried to deliver and failed.

Re:Amazon Flex by blazespin on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:47PM (#10301228)
It's an issue or some wacko can come to your door pretending to be a delivery person.
Re:Amazon Flex by tedks on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @10:03PM (#10301289)
Uber tells you the license plate of the car assigned to you; this seems like a good way of preventing someone driving up and saying "I'm your Uber" if they sniff you using Uber on your phone.

Amazon might not do this yet but they could and obviously should.

People who are totally unconcerned about someone totally random showing up at their door carrying a potentially large(!) package are a whole different level of naive. Most of the world is not like your suburban home culdesac or Silicon Valley.

Re:Amazon Flex by SmellyGeekBoy on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:30AM (#10296090)
E-commerce companies have 2 points of contact with the customer - the website and the courier. It makes no sense whatsoever to me why there's this ongoing race to the bottom on the courier side of things while companies spend more and more on the website side. I suppose at that point they already have your money, so what if this delivery experience is awful?

Yodel are worse than useless, and I can't see this being much better.

Re:Amazon Flex by suvelx on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:35AM (#10296127)
What I don't understand, is why I can't pick my delivery slot for free.

Everybody has jobs. Everybody finds it annoying to buy something on line. You never know when it's going to turn up. You have to take a day off, and hope your driver is competent at his job.

Why can't you just say "I'll be at home on Thursday after 5pm. Call me on #555-333-9999 if you have any issues". Courier delivers the package after 5pm on Thursday.

One delivery. No wasted delivery attempts. If an attempt is failed, charge me for it.

Re:Amazon Flex by dragonwriter on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:59AM (#10296310)
> What I don't understand, is why I can't pick my delivery slot for free.

Because picking a delivery slot imposes a constraint which creates a cost for the delivery provider.

> Everybody has jobs. Everybody finds it annoying to buy something on line. You never know when it's going to turn up. You have to take a day off, and hope your driver is competent at his job.

Most everybody has jobs, but most people I know don't find it annoying to buy stuff online; many people can have packages delivered to work, and many people have no problems with packages delivered to their home when they aren't there.

> Why can't you just say "I'll be at home on Thursday after 5pm. Call me on #555-333-9999 if you have any issues". Courier delivers the package after 5pm on Thursday.

Because, as you note, everyone has jobs, and if there was no cost to request delivery times, pretty much everyone would request something like "after 5pm". Which would eliminate the freedom of delivery companies to efficiently use delivery vehicles. Which would drive up their costs.

Asking for something which imposes an additional constraint on the service provider which has a cost to fulfill either costs everyone extra to subsidize you, or must cost you extra.

Re:Amazon Flex by dingaling on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @11:18AM (#10296906)
> Which would eliminate the freedom of delivery companies to efficiently use delivery vehicles.

At present ( in the UK ) most courier delivery fleets stand idle in the evening after being out during the day missing deliveries to people who are in work. And having to call again the next day.

It perplexes me why they don't shift their delivery period six hours later to start at 15:00 and end at 21:00. That would cover both business and residential hours.

Re:Amazon Flex by the_hangman on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @03:24PM (#10298842)
> It perplexes me why they don't shift their delivery period six hours later to start at 15:00 and end at 21:00. That would cover both business and residential hours.

I would imagine that is because the highest margins are made off of next-day deliveries from business to business. They often guarantee these deliveries by 10 AM because many companies are willing to pay extra to ensure that their package is delivered by 10 AM.

Consumers, by contrast, are more interested in paying as little as possible for shipping. Shifting their delivery hours to accommodate a group of customers who aren't willing to pay extra for the service while simultaneously killing off business from their most profitable customers would likely be a poor business decision.

Re:Amazon Flex by jimhefferon on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @01:17PM (#10297783)
> It perplexes me why they don't shift their delivery period six hours later to start at 15:00 and end at 21:00.

Maybe they feel that even people doing delivery jobs are entitled to be home with their family at the end of the day?

Re:Amazon Flex by dragonwriter on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @02:07PM (#10298246)
> Maybe they feel that even people doing delivery jobs are entitled to be home with their family at the end of the day?

More to the point, maybe they feel that the higher wage costs for that kind of shift work aren't worth whatever cost savings in other areas it would provide.

Re:Amazon Flex by freehunter on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @01:49PM (#10298077)
Plenty of people work jobs where they are not at home in the evening, so I'm not sure this argument is the most effective. Second and third shift are real things for factory workers, almost everyone in a hospital, grocery store clerks, gas station attendants, janitors almost everywhere, security guards, emergency responders, hell anything that's open after 5pm (which is a ton of stuff).

So yeah, adding a second shift isn't unheard of. My grandpa worked second shift his whole life, and I worked third shift the whole way through college.

Re:Amazon Flex by somebehemoth on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @07:53PM (#10300729)
Just because people do work 2nd shift does not mean it is ideal for them to do so. So I think parent is commenting to say that it is possible that delivery companies value work life balance for their employees and that is a good thing. Market forces change things sure (second shift becomes required to compete), but the first shift schedule is a benefit that I am sure a lot of delivery people appreciate.
Re:Amazon Flex by bitdivision on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @12:06PM (#10297269)
I agree, this would be nice.

They would have to split the fleet, all business deliveries still need to be made 9-5.

Amazon have actually started doing this in reverse in the UK, you can set an address as a business address and your package should only be delivered 9-5. In practice the 'Amazon Logistics' drivers (the aforementioned blokes in cars) are terrible and rarely manage to get this right.

Re:Amazon Flex by noxToken on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @12:00PM (#10297227)
I wonder how this would work in more rural places in the US.

Before I graduated high school, I lived in rural-ish area where the nearest commercial couriers were 50+ minutes from my house to the north and about 90+ minutes to the south. Wal-Mart was literally my only choice for consumer goods, so I spent a good chunk of change online.

I always had the same driver for a certain courier. I asked him how often he had to come down that far, and if it was significantly out of the way compared to the rest of his route. He told me that there were occasionally other stops in my town, but it wasn't the norm. The city and the immediate suburbs were the vast majority of their deliveries. Driving 100 minutes round trip for a couple deliveries probably sucked.

Re:Amazon Flex by murbard2 on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @02:48PM (#10298580)
Someone who lives in this rural place will find it quite profitable to become the town's Amazon delivery person. Drive to pick up packages in the morning, come back and deliver during the day, then go home.
Re:Amazon Flex by DanBC on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @11:19AM (#10296917)
That would coincide with rush hour?

Apart from that it's a good idea.

Re:Amazon Flex by jroseattle on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @05:28PM (#10299787)
Perfectly reasonable responses.

This is also an opportunity waiting to happen.

Re:Amazon Flex by mikeash on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:42AM (#10296189)
Because one guy is delivering a huge number of packages, and the service wants this to happen in the most efficient i.e. cheapest way possible. They do their best to come up with an optimal route for all the packages for the day. UPS famously goes so far as to avoid left turns whenever possible when planning their routes for the day, because it takes up significantly more time.

If you're picking a more specific delivery window then you're throwing off that planning and it likely requires the delivery driver to take a less efficient route than they otherwise would. That costs the company, and therefore it costs you.

Re:Amazon Flex by qnk on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:40AM (#10296170)

  "Everybody has jobs"
Yes, even the delivery guys who have already been working all day and probably don't want to work past 5pm. There are several alternatives to get custom delivery schedules that work for you, like Amazon locker or Doorman.co.
Re:Amazon Flex by tormeh on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @12:09PM (#10297290)
How about the local post office or your mail box?
Re:Amazon Flex by magic_beans on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @01:20PM (#10297804)
I don't know about you, but my local post office opens at 10 and closes at 5pm, which are when I'm at work.

And my mailbox is a slot in the door. It's not going to accept my packages for me.

Re:Amazon Flex by tormeh on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @04:21PM (#10299336)
Oh, yeah. We don't actually have any real post offices where I live; post office functions are handled by select grocery stores and are available as long as the grocery stores are open.
Re:Amazon Flex by TeMPOraL on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @12:23PM (#10297412)
In Poland, one company set up automated package drop points ("paczkomat", portmanteau of "paczka" - package, and "automat" - automaton, machine) in pretty much every big and small city. Couriers deliver packages to them both in the morning and in the evening, and you can pick them up 24/7 with no human interaction required (you get a one-time password via e-mail and text).

This is godsend for people who work standard hours. I buy on-line quite often, and whenever (90% of cases) there's an option, I pick up a paczkomat on my route home (big cities have a lot of them; mine has something around 50). If a particular shop doesn't offer this type of delivery, I order it to work.

Sadly, post office is no longer an option for me - they work standard hours, and only during Monday - Friday, which makes it hard to pick up anything there. In other words, I have to come late every time something big from Aliexpress comes.

EDIT:

> What I don't understand, is why I can't pick my delivery slot for free.

s/free/a fee/, and I think it could work. For large enough values of "a fee".

Re:Amazon Flex by cag_ii on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @01:18PM (#10297791)
Interestingly, Amazon also runs the "Amazon Locker"[0] service in the US, which sounds much like the "paczkomat" you describe.

    0. http://www.amazon.com/b/ref=amb_link_366591722_2?encoding=UTF8&node=6442600011
Re:Amazon Flex by Robadob on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @01:30PM (#10297883)
Yeah, we have quite a few of those in small shops around the UK (in my city atleast).

Slightly offtopic rant

Amazon offered my universities students union the chance to install some inside the union (e.g. to help students who are at lectures during the day/don't trust flatmates etc), however the union council (who are elected to serve the students interest) voted with a majority against the idea because of how little corporate tax Amazon pays. Ironically, the students union website is hosted on AWS, but they're able to overlook that.

Re:Amazon Flex by TeMPOraL on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @01:25PM (#10297844)
Re:Amazon Flex by mywacaday on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @01:30PM (#10297885)
Same in Ireland, http://www.parcelmotel.com/ Delivers cheaper to Ireland when buying from the UK as a lot of UK vendors offer free delivery domestically. Also allows shipping between their pickup box locations. Oversize items go to a local depo that's open until 8pm so convenient overall.
Re:Amazon Flex by dspillett on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @10:02AM (#10296333)
> What I don't understand, is why I can't pick my delivery slot for free.

As well as the logistical issue others have mentioned: if they did/do offer such an option, you value the option so they'll expect you to pay for it (unless it becomes part of a race to the bottom with other distributors in which case eventually someone will offer that for free).

> after 5pm

That would definitely be chargeable. If evening deliveries were offered for free the majority of their customers would pick that.

> Call me on #555-333-9999 if you have any issues

Not going to happen: the delivery people work to pretty tight schedules in order to be as efficient as possible (and therefore cheap in terms of both man time and fuel). Taking time out to try get through to someone won't happen. You could be on another call, your phone might not be contactable for some other reason, and so forth. In circumstances where you are not ready and waiting to collect you are not unlikely to be in a position to not be able to immediately answer the phone.

Re:Amazon Flex by lorenzhs on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:44AM (#10296206)
I have everything delivered to my office, as long as I can transport it home on my bike (i.e. no washing machines). Works very well for me, but apparently not every workplace encourages this. Here, the delivery guy brings the packages directly to my office ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Re:Amazon Flex by voltagex_ on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @05:21PM (#10299716)
Often there's a complete lack of policy around this, especially in buildings requiring swipecards to get in. I don't mind coming down to the lobby to pick up parcels, but it's unknown whether this is actually allowed by $EMPLOYER
Re:Amazon Flex by organsnyder on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:42AM (#10296190)
To get efficiency, delivery companies have highly optimized routes to deliver as many packages in as little time and distance traveled. UPS even has algorithms to reduce the number of left turns. It's probably cheaper for delivery companies to make multiple delivery attempts than it is for them to allow recipients to specify their own delivery times.

Of course, there shouldn't be any logistical impediments preventing the delivery company from notifying you once a more precise delivery window is known.

Re:Amazon Flex by bitdivision on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @12:10PM (#10297309)
DPD in the UK do this now. The morning of your delivery you get a text message giving you the hour your parcel will be delivered, and a link to rearrange delivery or to track the driver's current location.

To my mind, their system far outstrips the other couriers.

Re:Amazon Flex by d_theorist on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @12:59PM (#10297637)
Yeah. I had a delivery from them the other day. I could see a map showing exactly where the driver was at any time. Granted, it didn't auto-update, but whenever I reloaded the page it gave me an updated location, and told me where I was in the queue.
Re:Amazon Flex by petercooper on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @02:32PM (#10298465)
If you use Chrome DevTools, you can get a curl query that will keep grabbing the latest JSON from the tracking. We rigged it up with a check every minute and had it send us a Slack notification when the delivery was under a mile away :-)
Re:Amazon Flex by dasboth on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @05:52PM (#10300005)
That's a lovely bit of hacking! :)
Re:Amazon Flex by d_theorist on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @05:26PM (#10299764)
Nice!
Re:Amazon Flex by sethhochberg on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @12:07PM (#10297276)
I actually just recently learned about UPS's "My Choice" program - it does exactly this, you get more precise delivery windows for packages and a certain number of times per year you can request specific delivery windows.
Re:Amazon Flex by brador on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @10:35AM (#10296564)
Because an average courier drops 180 parcels a day.

Now add customer preferences and you have a mess that can't be satisfied because everyone wants their parcel 5-7pm.

Re:Amazon Flex by rexf on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @12:06PM (#10297267)
> everyone wants their parcel 5-7pm

If everyone wants later delivery, maybe that is something to look into (to meet/satisfy customer demand). Instead of the alternative of packages not getting delivered in the daytime and trying again the next day.

Re:Amazon Flex by robotresearcher on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @12:14PM (#10297336)
Now add the elastic capacity of a large number of casual part-timer workers who finished school/starbucks/whatever at 4pm and are happy to make a little cash working 5-7pm.
Re:Amazon Flex by Someone1234 on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @10:02AM (#10296335)
I think we would all love to see this.

Amazon do have their lockers. The problem with Amazon Lockers is that they're expensive. Even with prime it still costs extra on top (similar to one day shipping) to have it delivered to a locker.

I've noticed Amazon require a signature a lot LESS often now which does reduce this problem (since it can be left), and I guess Amazon are picking up the cost of the 1-5% of stolen packages.

PS - I've only had a single package in the last two years simply disappear (after it transitioned from a carrier to the USPO, it was a packet of underwear).

Re:Amazon Flex by ghaff on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @11:16AM (#10296897)
I assume you meant a signature.

Or a combination of Amazon and the logistics companies. Mind you it's very safe to drop things at my house. (Rural home with a long driveway.) But I've noticed a trend toward a signature requirement becoming very rare whether it's Amazon or others.

Re:Amazon Flex by sib on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @04:51PM (#10299538)
Is this geography-specific? "Even with prime it still costs extra on top (similar to one day shipping) to have it delivered to a locker." I've never been charged extra for Locker delivery.
Re:Amazon Flex by deet on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @12:10PM (#10297303)
This is for Amazon Prime Now deliveries, which let you choose a delivery slot. You choose a two-hour delivery slot between 6am and midnight for free, or you can choose a 1 hour delivery slot, including within one hour from now, for a fee (at least those are the ranges in NYC).
Re:Amazon Flex by adventured on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @10:16AM (#10296426)
You will be able to do this once Amazon Flex is built out (or Uber Delivery et al). Delivery drivers will make more money for delivering after normal ~9-5pm type hours.
Re:Amazon Flex by cbhl on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @05:27PM (#10299782)
If you live in SF, Seattle, or New York you can probably find a 'package locker' service like Amazon Locker or BufferBox to solve that problem for you. It's a bit pricy though -- you may as well just live in a luxury apartment and have the doorman/reception drop the package off inside your apartment for you.
Re:Amazon Flex by kraftman on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:45AM (#10296216)
Can't you get it delivered to work?
Re:Amazon Flex by xixixao on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @10:54AM (#10296729)
Yes yes yes. I don't want this for stuff I can transport myself, hack I can just go to a normal shop for that stuff, but when I need a piece of furniture or an appliance, I don't want to have to take a holiday to get it delivered. (and Yodel indeed sucks)
Re:Amazon Flex by grayclhn on Wednesday September 30, 2015 @12:31AM (#10301777)
I'm kind of amazed at the negative reactions this comment got. I'd bet the reason is, "the companies think it would cost more," but god yes it would be more convenient.
Re:Amazon Flex by Nilef on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @02:57PM (#10298643)
This is the world we envisage with gophr.it - Unfortunately, we're only inside London at the minute.
Re:Amazon Flex by patrickyan on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @10:51AM (#10296713)
You can use a service like Doorman in SF or Parcel in NYC. UPS also has MyChoice.
Re:Amazon Flex by voltagex_ on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @05:31PM (#10299807)
Hahahaha. I tried to use MyChoice while on holiday in Canada. I was in an AirBNB, so wasn't listed on the building directory. This resulted in [1], repeating until I sat at home and waited for the UPS guy to arrive.

[1]: https://i.imgur.com/r6yB77e.png

Re:Amazon Flex by speby on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @01:34PM (#10297913)
This is a massive lack of imagination. I highly doubt the only motivation from Amazon's perspective is strictly about cost-cutting. On its surface, yes, it would be easy to assume this could result in some odd or lesser version of having a major courier deliver your package.

On the other hand, by having Amazon control the to-the-door experience, that gives them incredible granular controls over how things are done, when, by whom, and how they do it, including how they are supposed to treat you at the door (if you're there), what to say, etc. etc. As well as any additional things that could come in the future.

For example, what about a 5-minute tutorial for a new product you just ordered?

These are just the tip of the iceberg that Amazon could do with this.

Re:Amazon Flex by gherkin0 on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @01:50PM (#10298080)
> This is a massive lack of imagination. I highly doubt the only motivation from Amazon's perspective is strictly about cost-cutting.

> For example, what about a 5-minute tutorial for a new product you just ordered?

I highly doubt people who are essentially doing low-wage contract piecework will have the motivation or ability to give me an effective 5 minute tutorial on the random gizmo I just researched and ordered. When would they learn that stuff, on the drive to my house?

Also, wasn't there a big story a few years ago about how Amazons treats many of their low-skill workers as easily replaceable automatons (many of which are now being replaced by literal automatons)? I can't see this as being much different.

Re:Amazon Flex by speby on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @05:20PM (#10299710)
While I certainly can't prove your comments any other way, my point isn't to declare that I somehow know what Amazon is going to do with this, rather that there are a lot of interesting possibilities when you control the whole process, including the final delivery step of getting a product to the actual customer. There are things you just can't do when you are contracting that through a normal courier (UPS, FedEx, USPS, etc etc.).
Re:Amazon Flex by Kalium on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @05:38PM (#10299881)
There is a lot of potential value in white-glove services, yes. It's also something most people aren't all that interested in paying a reasonable amount for.

Think for a minute about the cost of sending someone trained out for a five-minute introductory session when a given gizmo is delivered. Think about the training required. Think about all the additional delivery complications this introduces. And so on.

There's value here, but it's not easy to realize. Places like Best Buy offer it through Geek Squad, but only in conjunction with a B&M service.

Re:Amazon Flex by jack9 on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @05:58PM (#10300042)
> It's also something most people aren't all that interested in paying a reasonable amount for.

That's me! I have 0 interest in it. I just want the stuff on my doorstep when I get home and a way to address if it hasn't been delivered. Neither of these require a white-glove service I don't want to pay for.

Re:Amazon Flex by tzier on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @02:49PM (#10298591)
> On the other hand, by having Amazon control the to-the-door experience, that gives them incredible granular controls over how things are done, when, by whom, and how they do it, including how they are supposed to treat you at the door (if you're there), what to say, etc. etc.

You can't exert control (e.g. uniforms, greetings, etc.) over independent contractors, so Amazon would not be able to do any of this under their current model.

Re:Amazon Flex by dragonwriter on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @07:55PM (#10300738)
> You can't exert control (e.g. uniforms, greetings, etc.) over independent contractors, so Amazon would not be able to do any of this under their current model.

You can, but the degree, nature, and scope of such control will be part of any analysis as to whether they are bona fide independent contractors, or actually employees where you are trying to evade requirements of employment law.

Re:Amazon Flex by jlebar on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @03:58PM (#10299143)
> You can't exert control (e.g. uniforms, greetings, etc.) over independent contractors

That's false as a matter of fact.

Re:Amazon Flex by ticviking on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @07:18PM (#10300545)
Are you at all following Uber's legal issues?
Re:Amazon Flex by voltagex_ on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @05:27PM (#10299776)
I hope they remember the world exists outside of the US and UK - Australia seriously needs some delivery competition between AusPost, StarTrack (owned by AusPost) and Toll. I'm sure I'm forgetting a few, but Australians buy a lot of stuff online [1].

AusPost won't accept anything but their own parcels / other national carriers (i.e. USPS but not UPS) into their parcel locker system, so it's a complete crapshoot whether your Amazon parcel is going to go around the world again.

Toll have tried to emulate this with their ParcelPoint system but there just aren't as many locations.

Amazon could seriously shake things up by launching Flex plus Lockers at the same time here. Flex would cover the rural areas quite well where the nearest courier depot is 1+ hours away (or more in WA, I'm sure)

1: http://auspost.com.au/annualreport2014/parcel-services.html but declining because our economy relies heavily on digging stuff up and selling it to China.

Re:Amazon Flex by sdm on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @01:50PM (#10298084)
But really, how often does the customer actually see the courier? If I have stuff delivered to the office, the receptionist signs for it and drops it off to me. If I have stuff delivered at home, my building's concierge signs for it and I pick it up when I get home. I can't remember the last time I gave any thought to the courier.

I see this becoming more like China -- which has a truly impressive courier system. There there is no branding or uniforms for the most part. Just guys on scooters who ring up and drop off your package. It works great.

Re:Amazon Flex by TeMPOraL on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @12:35PM (#10297492)
I don't think anybody really associates couriers with sellers - they're part of the infrastructure. It doesn't really count as "contact with the customer" (unless you see it as a business opportunity - making the experience special - which for some reason no one takes).

E-commerce businesses do however have strong incentives to ditch the completely unreliable delivery companies, because they cause a lot of mess on the business end (besides angry customers, you waste a lot of time finding the package and scolding the delivery people). As a result, most delivery options suck equally.

Re:Amazon Flex by gherkin0 on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @01:39PM (#10297963)
Plus, the established couriers have several useful services that Amazon can't practically replicate. For instance, with UPS/FedEx/USPS I can easily divert all my packages to a nearby pickup point regularly or on short notice, even in a flyover suburb. Amazon will never be able to replicate that[1]. If they ever offer Amazon Flex in my area, I hope there will be a way to opt out.

[1] I'm aware of Amazon Locker, but I don't live in Seattle, the Bay Area, or Manhattan; and dealing with yet another pickup point for a specific merchant just seems like an annoying hassle.

Re:Amazon Flex by Domenic_S on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @01:54PM (#10298127)
On the page it says:

> What kind of things will I deliver? You’ll deliver ultra-fast Amazon Prime Now packages.

If you're ordering something for ultra-fast same-day delivery, surely you know precisely where you want it delivered to at the time of ordering?

Re:Amazon Flex by dorfsmay on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:36AM (#10296138)
Unless we can rate the delivery person, AND somehow verify that the person ringing at the door is indeed the person making the delivery, say by checking through an apps on your phone that they should be at your door now, and a pic of their face.

Worked for Uber...

Re:Amazon Flex by carsonreinke on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:36AM (#10296140)
A lot goes into the infrastructure of the carriers, I think most companies cannot afford this.
Re:Amazon Flex by stephenc_c_ on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:32AM (#10296099)
The blank vans, oftentimes actually rental vans, are actually Amazon Logistics. This is Amazon's own delivery operation in the UK, and all Prime deliveries in my area use this service. It's been years since I have seen any third party delivery providers for Amazon orders.
Re:Amazon Flex by shocks on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:44AM (#10296207)
Every time I've got something delivered by Amazon Logistics, it's actually been APC.

Oh, and it's shit. Order next day delivery at 9AM Monday? Delivered 7PM Tuesday! Get it Wednesday because the post room in my office closes at 6PM.

Re:Amazon Flex by te_chris on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @10:08AM (#10296364)
Fucking this! The amount of time Prime deliveries arrive after I've already left work is ridiculous (in London).
Re:Amazon Flex by buffoon on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @06:28PM (#10300256)
I was paying for prime but dumped it. Turns out if you pick the free option and the stuff is dispatched by amazon it tends to turn up within 48 hours anyway so fuck it.

Also, I live 100 yards from Currys/PC World and they're actually cheaper on a lot of things (which was a bit WTF when I discovered it)

Re:Amazon Flex by Nilef on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @03:09PM (#10298722)
Agreed, absolutely terrible service. My last two next-day Prime deliveries have been dreadful: 1 came a day late, the second still hasn't shown up.
Re:Amazon Flex by dzlobin on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @03:31PM (#10298908)
In NYC, they like to use A1 International. I'm literally 0/2 with them, as neither package handled by A1I ever arrived.
Re:Amazon Flex by joshstrange on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:00AM (#10295884)
How was the experience bad? I never see my UPS delivery guy so I can't imagine it matters one way or the other to me how my packages "magically" show up on my front porch.
Re:Amazon Flex by hmmdiggy on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:03AM (#10295908)
We've had packages delivered by an individual similar to survelx, and the guy clearly smokes in his car as the package stinks of smoke and it even penetrates the items inside on occasion (clothing). Issue here is that he's not bound by company policy of smoking in a company vehicle, so he's free to smoke away.
Re:Amazon Flex by saulrh on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:05AM (#10295928)
It'd be valuable for you to complain to Amazon when that happens. They probably can't get feedback on a service like this except through complaints like that.
Re:Amazon Flex by Someone1234 on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @10:12AM (#10296400)
Complaining about YODEL in the UK is like spitting in the ocean or saying "Comcast sucks" in the US. Everyone knows it, but yet it continues. Amazon UK has a permanent discussion thread titled "Yodel sucks" that is just stories about how Yodel lost/stolen/damaged/etc people's packages.

Here is today's 44 post discussion:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/forum/amazon/ref=cm_cd_tfp_ef_tft_tp...

Re:Amazon Flex by dfinlay on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @10:01AM (#10296329)
I had an issue with my local UPS operation marking packages as 'Undeliverable as Addressed' at 20:00 the day they were supposed arrive, to meet their obligation. They would then arrive the next day without issue. I ended up calling Amazon, and they got the local UPS office on the phone and asked for the exact problem with addressing. There was none, and they issue did not reoccur.
Re:Amazon Flex by hmmdiggy on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:13AM (#10295975)
Complained several times but still occurs. I'm stuck in that guy's catchment area so always a high chance it's the same bloke.
Re:Amazon Flex by mikeash on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:44AM (#10296204)
They'll probably get the idea if you start hitting them in the wallet. Any time the stuff you ordered smells of smoke, return it as having been damaged in transit (it's true!) and they should catch on pretty fast.
Re:Amazon Flex by enraged_camel on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @10:39AM (#10296608)
I don't think the package smelling like cigarette smoke qualifies as "damaged", sorry.

I hang out at coffee shops a lot and often times my bag and clothes end up smelling like coffee. Does that mean they are "damaged"? No. Especially since it's temporary (even more so in the case of the Amazon package, which is disposed of right away).

Re:Amazon Flex by mikeash on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @10:44AM (#10296657)
If only the packaging smells, then I agree, it's not damaged.

But they also said that sometimes the contents get smelly. That definitely qualifies as damaged.

Coffee smells come out a lot easier than cigarette smells, and you choose to go to those coffee shops, whereas the person I'm replying to does not choose to expose his brand-new clothes to cigarette smoke.

If I buy brand new clothes and they smell of cigarette smoke out of the package, damned right that means they're "damaged."

Re:Amazon Flex by enraged_camel on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @01:48PM (#10298068)
Sounds like entitlement to me. Wash the thing and the smell goes away. Jeez...
Re:Amazon Flex by mikeash on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @01:56PM (#10298139)
Really, it's "entitlement" to expect that newly purchased clothes don't come with a foul smell?

And again, cigarette smoke does not necessarily wash out as easily as you seem to think it does.

Would you be as understanding of the driver if he got ice cream all over the clothes instead? After all, wash it and it'll come out.

Re:Amazon Flex by enraged_camel on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @02:24PM (#10298400)
Most people are smart enough to understand the significant categorical differences between an ice cream stain and cigarette smoke.

Also, "foul" is completely subjective in this case. Guess what: I hate the plasticy/industrial smell of certain types of clothing packages. But I'm not gonna go around claiming the item is "damaged" simply because I don't like the way it smells out of the box.

Re:Amazon Flex by mikeash on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @03:06PM (#10298700)
What is the categorical difference between an ice cream stain and cigarette smoke? Because I honestly don't understand what distinction you're trying to make.
Re:Amazon Flex by enraged_camel on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @08:19PM (#10300859)
One is a physical stain that might very well be permanent. The other is an odor that will come out after literally one wash (or after airing it out for a while).
Re:Amazon Flex by mikeash on Wednesday September 30, 2015 @10:54AM (#10304397)
The ice cream stain might not be permanent, and the cigarette smell might be, all depending on the specifics, so I see no qualitative difference between the two.
Re:Amazon Flex by monksy on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @02:46PM (#10298565)
As the user Someone said..

Amazon won't do anything about it. [I feel] If my last experience with Amazon CS is any indication they'll read a script, and just refund your money. (Not reship.. I've had that issue as well) Also, if you're a prime member and have spent quite a bit of money on Amazon.. They still won't care.

I plan on cancelling my prime membership and seeking out alternatives.

Re:Amazon Flex by mseebach on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:06AM (#10295940)
It won't take many packages returned because they smell of smoke for that to become company policy.
Re:Amazon Flex by tdylan on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:06AM (#10295934)
Simple solution = rating system a la Uber.
Re:Amazon Flex by hellofunk on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:20AM (#10296021)
I agree. When Amazon sends an order using one of these type of delivery services, they should send a followup email to the customer in a day or two after delivery asking for a simple rating on the delivery experience.
Re:Amazon Flex by ortusdux on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:36AM (#10296136)
I guarantee that they have this feature planned out and are just waiting until they have enough drivers that firing some is an option.
Re:Amazon Flex by hellofunk on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @10:35AM (#10296561)
Amazon is a rather wealthy company, are they really cutting corners on this key part of the customer experience because of money? Because good drivers would line up if they paid properly... or just hired a real delivery company.
Re:Amazon Flex by blakeyrat on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @06:17PM (#10300189)
Unless their copy on the website is a lie, the rates they're offering for courier jobs is actually quite competitive in the Seattle area. It's probably more about being able to control their own delivery experience than it is about cutting corners.
Re:Amazon Flex by caskance on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @12:15PM (#10297349)
Do they not pay well? The rates in the Flex page look reasonable to me.
Re:Amazon Flex by Spooky23 on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @10:37AM (#10296586)
Great, so now as a customer, I'm responsible for management tasks for Amazon's ersatz delivery service. Umm... no.

There's an easier solution for this problem: Use Walmart, Newegg etc.

Re:Amazon Flex by abluecloud on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:08AM (#10295948)
I thought that because they were making money on the side, and therefore would be either a company, or sole trader, utilising their car that (in the UK anyways) it would fall under the banning a number of years back.

info:

Re:Amazon Flex by mikeash on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:40AM (#10296164)
There are lots of ways a package delivery can be "bad."

For example, delivery services routinely leave packages at my garage rather than my front door, because it saves them 15 seconds of walking. This is less convenient for me but more convenient for them.

But that's not all! Once they put a package low to the ground and not out of the way, so that when I went to drive somewhere, I backed over it.

I once saw a delivery guy deliver to a neighbor. He dropped the package at their garage door, knocked on the garage door, and left. I assume they are required to knock but it doesn't say where.

And of course because they never knock or ring my doorbell, the only way I know a package has been delivered is if I sign up for electronic notifications, or I discover it on my way out.

In other instances, I've had packages simply delivered to the wrong house, I guess because numbers are hard. Once I had a package delivered to the wrong city.

Usually it works well enough, but there's plenty of room for improvement for me.

Re:Amazon Flex by Obi_Juan_Kenobi on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @06:39PM (#10300311)
It would be really interesting to see a map of delivery service satisfaction. It clearly varies a great deal.

I'm in a fairly dense urban area, one of the next-day prime locations. Our apartment gets about 4 packages a week I'd say. Probably 90% arrive on time or ahead. I've had a couple where the driver just threw the package up the stairs to the apartment, instead of to the door. Still, considering the sheer number of packages, I've yet to have a misplaced or stolen package.

They do drop off without ringing fairly often. Personally I don't mind, but it seems like that could be standardized.

Re:Amazon Flex by Spooky23 on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @10:33AM (#10296545)
UPS/Fedex/USPS aren't burger flipper operations.

The "magic" is the stuff that happens behind the scenes, all of these companies, from the frontline employees to the backend systems have a lot of details.

Examples of why your experience would suck:

- Late packages

- Lost packages

- Stealing of your stuff

- Damage to your stuff

- Lower-tier people learning your habits

- Generally high level of fuckups.

IMO, Amazon's path here is a sign that they are in trouble. In the late 90's, ecommerce players looking to cut costs did stuff like use Airborne Express (later acquired by DHL) and the company that become Fedex Home/Ground. Both companies used contracted out delivery drivers or courier companies, and both were big fuckups.

UPS/FedEx/USPS are pretty efficient at this stuff, so the final frontier for Amazon is exploiting the workforce to cut costs. So you'll have folks driving their mom's car to deliver packages Uber-style, with inadequate insurance and insufficient income to maintain a vehicle suitable for the purpose.

Re:Amazon Flex by suvelx on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:09AM (#10295955)
Drivers from Amazon (and only Amazon) consistently flag first-attempt deliveries as "Unable to deliver package", then successfully deliver the package the second time around without any issue. And although these deliveries could be from either Amazon-Randoms or Amazon-Yodel couriers, the issue is still a recurring one.

Trying to get any sort of resolution out of Amazon is impossible, as they insulate their logistics department from any customer service complaints. All you can do is point out that it happens nearly every delivery.

Plus it's just plain weird, that some guy in joggers turns up and hands you a package. There's no way to associate the courier as a courier, and as such my first thought is usually "Why does this man have my stuff? Did I just let a random guy into my complex?"

Re:Amazon Flex by TazDingo on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @11:02PM (#10301458)
I've ordered a few times from Prime Now and so far it's been a pretty good experience. I like how it shows real time GPS tracking of the delivery driver as well as the name of the driver.

I've put specific instructions on where to leave the package if I'm not there or to give me a call when they've arrived, and so far no problems there. It's pretty easy to associate the courier as a courier since a notification pops up saying the driver has arrived and you can see the person holding a big brown bag with an amazon label on it. Pretty straight forward imo.

So far a much better experience than OnTrac leaving shit wherever they please.

Re:Amazon Flex by gohrt on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @02:19PM (#10298354)
When Amazon opened in China, they had a big problem with these temp couriers showing up for work, stealing a package, and going MIA
Re:Amazon Flex by smackfu on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:26AM (#10296058)
Main complaint is when the person lies about delivering it if they can't make the promised date. Then they drop it off the next day with little repercussions.

I've also had problems with companies using alternative shippers for cold-packed stuff, presumably because it was cheaper. Then it sat in someone's hot car for 12 hours and was delivered with room temp ice packs. Sure it was delivered on the right day, but not well.

Re:Amazon Flex by ksherlock on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:18AM (#10296004)
If you see a UPS delivery guy or truck, you know who it is. Not so when some random person is creeping around your house.
Re:Amazon Flex by andrewstuart2 on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:08AM (#10295953)
Well to be fair, "not the greatest" doesn't mean it was bad. Just probably not as super friendly as the marketing photo they chose. :-)
Re:Amazon Flex by k__ on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:13AM (#10295972)
Delivery service quality has gone down for years now, here in Germany

A few times a delivery guy stole my packages (>1000€) and most of the time it gets simply placed in the hallway without further notice...

Insurance covers this, but it's aggravating non the less :\

Re:Amazon Flex by hmmdiggy on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:18AM (#10296001)
I used to be a delivery driver in rural England, and one day it was a Harry Potter book release date and we were told explicitly not to leave on the door step if they weren't in. I'm not sure who sent these instructions whether it was the company sending the items, or our company delivering, but it's funny to see perceived value imposed on this occasion.
Re:Amazon Flex by colinramsay on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:16AM (#10295990)
I can't find anything that says Amazon bought Yodel - do you have a source? That said, I think you might be right about Yodel's general model being like this. Their service is shocking.

On the other hand, right now I am waiting on a parcel being delivered by DPD on behalf of Amazon. They have given a one hour window, I can track the location of the van online, and I could have text them this morning to rearrange the delivery of the parcel or provide different delivery instructions. And the drivers wear uniforms!

Re:Amazon Flex by TazeTSchnitzel on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:20AM (#10296019)
They didn't acquire Yodel, but they did acquire a minor stake in it: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/mar/24/amazon-yod...
Re:Amazon Flex by dazc on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:35AM (#10296133)
DPD are a fine example of how it should be done. It's just a shame the current home delivery option is such a lottery.
Re:Amazon Flex by ddmf on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:26AM (#10296059)
I'm a big fan of DPD's system except for the fact that their optimiser always tries to deliver to our house during school pickup - their software doesn't allow for any time exclusions and sometimes their drivers don't respect deliver to neighbour requests, otherwise their service would be perfect.
Re:Amazon Flex by suvelx on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:21AM (#10296024)
How on earth did you get Amazon to send you a delivery with DPD?
Re:Amazon Flex by colinramsay on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:27AM (#10296062)
Dunno, I'd say it happens more often than not. For us they use a combination of DPD, Hermes, Yodel and Royal Mail/Parcel Force. We have Amazon Prime and live in a fairly out of the way location so it's probably a combination of those two factors.
Re:Amazon Flex by lol768 on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @12:09PM (#10297300)
Amazon has sent a lot of Prime packages to me via DPD, but it seems to depend on when I order it. If I order on Saturday, I have a feeling they have very little choice as to which courier to use and as such it tends to be DPD.

I really prefer DPD because you can track the vehicle and you also get a delivery slot. Recently, Amazon have delivered some stuff for me via Royal Mail and ParcelForce (I ordered in the week) and whilst the packages did get to my house the next day, the tracking was much less informative/useful than what was offered by DPD.

Re:Amazon Flex by jallardice on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:04AM (#10295920)
I was thinking the same thing. I recently had something from Amazon delivered by a woman (same as you mentioned, no uniform or any indication she was with Amazon at all) who turned up with 2 young children who got out of the car and were running around in the car park outside my flat while she came in to deliver a package. I was confused at the time but this would definitely make sense.
Re:Amazon Flex by ddmf on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:24AM (#10296043)
Yodel use self employed drivers, probably in a similar way to flex, but I doubt they get as much money - £30 to £50 a day - not sure how many parcels that entails.

http://yodel.broadbeantech.com/jobs/view/4467/

Re:Amazon Flex by Someone1234 on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @10:09AM (#10296373)
You supply the fuel... If you take into account the wear and tear on your car and the cost of refueling, this is like minimum wage levels of income.

I'd be interested to read an account of someone who has actually done this "job"* (*technically self-employed, therefore treated like "unemployed" to most financial institutions and don't receive normal benefits like holiday time).

Re:Amazon Flex by justincormack on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @03:54PM (#10299110)
There are some stories here http://www.netmums.com/coffeehouse/working-childcare-692/wor...

Interesting that one got the mobile numbers of the customers to arrange delivery, while others clearly failed to deliver and then didnt get paid.

Re:Amazon Flex by lmb on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @10:33AM (#10296547)
Its called courier owner driver I believe. There are forums dedicated to it. Payment is per parcel, with certain numbers "guaranteed". You need no meet certain insurance criteria, sometimes need to buy equipment / work clothing. Not an easy way to make money.

Yodel offer 50-85p per parcel: http://codforum.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11911 Amazon Logistics in the UK: http://codforum.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11936

There is also lifestylecouriers.net for anyone who wishes to delve deeper into Yodel, co (requires registration)

Re:Amazon Flex by wil421 on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:04AM (#10295915)
In the US they have been using Laser Ship. The delivery driver is usually some dude in their personal car with a Lazer Ship magnent on the side. Not sure if this is similar but they don't look like UPS, FedEx or DHL drivers.
Re:Amazon Flex by TazeTSchnitzel on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:02AM (#10295897)
No uniform? The least Amazon could do is send their drivers a hat and a sticker, or something.
Re:Amazon Flex by amazing_jose on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:08AM (#10295952)
NOPE! That could imply that they are employees and we all know that's impossible ;)
Re:Amazon Flex by TazeTSchnitzel on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:13AM (#10295968)
Oh right, I forgot that they're skirting employment law.
Re:Amazon Flex by run4yourlives2 on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @01:09PM (#10297719)
The funny thing is that this wouldn't fly in Canada, (and I'm assuming other jurisdictions, like California), since even the inference of an employer/employee relationship constitutes one when it comes to legal entitlements and responsibilities.
Re:Amazon Flex by bmelton on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:21AM (#10296030)
Being in a Prime Now delivery area, I've had three recent deliveries by individuals in private cars, and each of them was wearing an Amazon Prime Now polo shirt.

In the past, I've had private car deliveries from Amazon, but I think they were generally LaserShip.

Echoing the author's sentiments, I had one delivery guy that looked sketchy. I forgot I was waiting on a package, and a guy showed up in my driveway, idled there for about five minutes (which my dogs alerted me to), then started lumbering up the driveway with a package in hand, smoking a cigarette, which he disposed of in my garden. The guy wasn't obviously from anywhere, in that neither his clothing nor car indicated any company affiliation whatsoever, so I stopped him and asked him his name and employer, and it was LaserShip, not Amazon.

Re:Amazon Flex by mseebach on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @10:08AM (#10296372)
The delivery-person on the picture on the linked webpage is definitely wearing a branded jacket.
Re:Amazon Flex by prawn on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @04:25PM (#10299371)
I've often thought about starting a delivery-as-a-service company where the deliverer wears their phone (or a phone) clipped to their chest (or diagonal satchel strap) where branding might otherwise go. And the phone would automatically show branding of whoever they were representing for that particular delivery.

If the rest of their uniform were neutral, it might work out.

Re:Amazon Flex by mattmanser on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:35AM (#10296129)
UK Prime customer getting terrible service from Amazon delivery - I think you're right, I complained the other day that Amazon are the only delivery people who demand I come down to the building entrance to collect my package instead of delivering it to my door.

Prime is an important part of Amazon's strategy, if they're not going to actually deliver packages properly then they're screwing themselves over.

I'll see how it goes but if there's many more problems I'm cancelling Prime.

EDIT: WTH am I getting d/ved for?

Re:Amazon Flex by suvelx on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:39AM (#10296160)
I don't pay for Prime.

Ether I or my wife buy something once a month 'next-day'. Amazon fail to deliver it, we complain to customer service, and demand a free month of Prime.

Rinse/repeat.

Re:Amazon Flex by philbarr on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:43AM (#10296199)
> WTH am I getting d/ved for?

No idea, so I upvoted you.

Now don't downvote me people just because I'm commenting about it. I didn't start it so it's not fair.

Re:Amazon Flex by Milner08 on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @01:03PM (#10297680)
Also upvoted, Im experiencing the same issues as him. Never had a problem when it was DHL/InterLink/DPD/etc (sure they weren't good, but they were much better than Amazon!).
Re:Amazon Flex by Milner08 on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @12:59PM (#10297646)
Recently all my orders from amazon have come via Amazon Logistics and all I can say is they SUCK. Ive started using lockers cause I cant be bothered with the hassle of them failing to get into my flat block and then not contacting me at all. Ive complained to amazon several times and they just dont care.
Re:Amazon Flex by popopje on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:28AM (#10296072)
Package delivery is never a good experience in the UK

i have my packages delivered to a friendly shop nearby - to my house, it's a nightmare.

The collect+ system also works reasonably well, i take that option if offered. (where it's delivered to a local cornershop or similar and you walk to pick it up)

I really feel there should be a gap in the market for "last mile" delivery to be solved properly, but i suspect there's not enough money to slow things down, and residential delivery is inherently difficult anywhere that doesn't have regimented street layouts.

Try addresses for all lo - if no reply, deliver to pre-arranged local shop. Text/email alert allowing redelivery to address or changed address within an hour or two, for a premium fee (bicycle couriers and other instant courier delivery)

that would solve all of my issues anyway..

Re:Amazon Flex by hellweaver666 on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @11:28AM (#10296986)
I'm a British expat living in Amsterdam. My company uses this service called MyPup - they give me a username and a code, I have all my stuff shipped to them and when it arrives they send me an SMS message letting me know it's arrived. Around an hour later I get another message letting me know it's been delivered to my office and the code to get into a temporary locker to retrieve my package.

They have someone at their office 24/7 to receive packages and another guy that does the "last mile". Once I urgently needed a package that arrived out of office hours on Friday - I sent them an email and they bought it to my house on Saturday. It's awesomely convenient!

Re:Amazon Flex by TheOtherHobbes on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:39AM (#10296159)
I've had terrible experiences with some couriers, but good experiences with DPD.

They provide a one-hour delivery window, a map with local van tracking, and the driver usually arrives in the earlier half of the time slot.

You can choose an alternative date or delivery to a neighbour right until the van rolls up.

Short of Star Trek teleportation or Magic Drone Technology[tm], it's probably as a good a service as it can be.

Re:Amazon Flex by popopje on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:49AM (#10296241)
have you switched delivery to neighbour on the day? i have, to a direct neighbour, and the new date given was 24hrs later. I eventually cancelled delivery of that package because it still wasn't with me 4 days later. Generally i've had poor experiences with DPD, just like any other.
Re:Amazon Flex by mirsadm on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:51AM (#10296253)
Having moved from Australia to the UK, I can tell you the delivery services I've used so far (Yodel, DPD etc) are far superior than any service in Australia. They even deliver on Saturdays and Sundays. That's amazing.
Re:Amazon Flex by jon-wood on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @11:43AM (#10297110)
You're the first person I've ever heard compare Yodel favourably to anything, deliveries must be truly awful in Australia!
Re:Amazon Flex by voltagex_ on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @10:00PM (#10301271)
I order way, way too much stuff in Australia, here's a summary:

AusPost: Our national carrier, realised a few years ago that no one's sending letters any more and "pivoted" to parcel delivery. Parcel Lockers [0] are a "new" innovation here but heaven help you if you try to get a courier parcel into one. Royal Mail = Good, DHL = Bad in this case and you might not even know until the seller receives the parcel back.

Fedex: Sorry, we missed you. (And the nearest depot is 30+ minutes away somewhere where buses don't go and you can only collect after 4 on weekdays)

DHL: Sorry, we missed you.

UPS: Sorry, we missed you (or handed your parcel off to StarTrack, in which case it'll go to a parcel locker, but you'll never know if this is actually going to happen)

USPS, Royal Mail etc: Handed off to AusPost, can go to a parcel locker.

StarTrack: More expensive, more blue version of AusPost - semi private (?), the only courier that AusPost will let into the lockers

Toll: Sorry we missed you, there's a redelivery fee in a lot of cases. Tried to start up a Parcel Locker competitor and then didn't expand to many locations [1]. The website returned 500 errors for the first 6 months of its existence.

Amazon: We're not going to actually tell you who is carrying your parcel because we outsourced it to iParcel who sometimes use UPS and sometimes use AusPost. Send an Amazon (US/UK/DE) parcel to an AusPost locker at your own peril

eBay: Most Aussie sellers use AusPost, so that works, but for some reason overseas orders go through some kind of Pitney Bowes reseller - see UPS, DHL, FedEx, Amazon above.

[0]: http://lockers.auspost.com.au [1]: http://parcelpoint.com.au

Re:Amazon Flex by celticninja on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:43AM (#10296202)
im in the UK and any delivery tends to try my house first, then a neighbour and failing that the shop opposite me.

The only time I have any real issue is when it requires signing for e.g. speciali delivery, in which case I have to go collect it.

Saying that, I did have a delivery (ebay purchase delivered by courier) that was stolen. they must have watched the driver try to deliver and when there was no answer he went to the shop and dropped it off there. a few minutes later someone went in and asked for the parcel and the shop gave it out. not their fault and it should have been signed for so I was able to claim a refund.

Re:Amazon Flex by mattmanser on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:38AM (#10296154)
Every time I use collect+ the shop always seems to complain about it (it's too big/I'm too busy/etc.). These have all been various different shops.
Re:Amazon Flex by popopje on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:46AM (#10296219)
i have had issues with that on one occasion too, now i remember.. (package was refused by the shop, went back to the depot for another day, changing the address to my home added another day etc etc.)
Re:Amazon Flex by jameshart on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:48AM (#10296239)
Ah, the famous British customer service experience.
Re:Amazon Flex by mnglkhn2 on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:56AM (#10296288)
The same happened to me in Chicago this past Sunday. Can't say I didn't like it but it was weird to get a package on a Sunday. Especially since I want forewarned that it will happen and I just got a phone call that my package is downstairs.
Re:Amazon Flex by stronglikedan on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @10:00AM (#10296321)
USPS delivers my Amazon packages on Sundays for a while now. I love it. I just wish more items were available for Sunday delivery. I suppose it won't be long now though.
Re:Amazon Flex by user24 on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:06AM (#10295938)
I've had the same experience, also in the UK!

But as to it not being the greatest experience, well, yes they are not always as professional as real courier companies. And a lot of the time they've just said "User24?" while handing me the package, so Amazon probably need to put a bit more effort into training. And I wonder how easy it would be to provide fake ID to Amazon and just steal a whole load of admittedly random packages? But, maybe that was the point of this possible trial, to identify issues like that so that the launch experience would be better?

Re:Amazon Flex by georgemcbay on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @02:16PM (#10298329)
Amazon has been doing direct deliveries of some items here in San Diego for quite a while now. I don't mind it at all especially since it means some items are delivered the same day I order them.

I vastly prefer their own couriers to USPS (the increased usage of which has caused me to consider cancelling Amazon Prime multiple times now -- loved Prime when it was basically all UPS here, USPS finds new and interesting ways to screw up my Amazon package deliveries on a monthly basis).

Re:Amazon Flex by luckygomez on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @04:28PM (#10299390)
I've seen the same in US too, random private car, person without any amazon branding/attire stopping by and dropping off Amazon packages. Might have been a beta trial in Silicon Valley. It was a little disconcerting watching someone stop by like that and drop off a package.
Re:Amazon Flex by buffoon on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @06:27PM (#10300250)
Same here. They throw the shit on my doorstep on the street in London, ring the doorbell and walk off.

One day I lost a 512 gig Samsung 840 Pro to this as someone walked off with the package as I was out. Amazon sorted it next day but that's not the point.

Re:Amazon Flex by manigandham on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @05:34PM (#10299842)
What would be a "great" delivery experience?

Seems on-time or faster with no damage is all that's needed. I prefer not even having to see/interact with a person for it.

Re:Amazon Flex by wmeredith on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @05:40PM (#10299900)
I was going to ask the same thing. My normal delivery experience is picking up my package off the porch as I watch the ass-end of a delivery truck mosey on down the street.
Re:Amazon Flex by mnem on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @03:04PM (#10298686)
Given the number of Yodel parcels that just fail to get delivered, I have to agree that it's not a particularly good experience.

At least Amazon customer support is great.

Re:Amazon Flex by blazespin on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:47PM (#10301226)
I'm sure you'll be able to rate the experience soon, ala Uber Style, and the experience will be awesome.
Re:Amazon Flex by dazc on Tuesday September 29, 2015 @09:40AM (#10296173)
Yodel is owned by Shop Direct Group (Littlewoods, Very, etc). Amazon do have a minor stake though.