Denmark’s economic prosperity comes from investment in free higher education for all, generally healthy lifestyles and the flexicurity-model, which provides a flexible labour market and promotes risk-taking.
Their model obviously works well.
How does the US compare / contrast?
Canada is close in some respects.
e.g. some examples from this list (% immigrant population): - Qatar (76%) - Australia (30%) - Canada (23%) - Belgium (20%) - USA (15.2%) - Denmark (14.2%)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_im...
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/immigrati...
What makes Canada's immigration policy sensible in your mind?
I feel they could do better than that with all this wealth.
You buy something dirt cheap for less than 80k USD. It's not great, it's old run down. But if you do minimal repairs and don't live the high life, you can get by with very little.
But if you want a new car and nice comfy house in a decent location, with all the modern amenities, well, that's expensive.
brother rusted out farm houses 2 hours from any office building, let alone one that hires programmers are like 350k in rural states. Idk where you live, but it ain't Earth.
For those who don't want to click, a house in Des Moines for $125000 - this was the very first house that came up when I searched des moines real estate, I didn't bother to look farther.
EDIT: reporting back from Steele, looks like there's an undeveloped acre next to a highway and a power junction for ~75K, it's under 80k so I guess you know where to find me pitching my tent.
https://www.boligsiden.dk/tilsalg/villa?sortBy=timeOnMarket&...
I'm not suggesting that this high life or secret to happiness. Just that of you want to work less, you can choose to spend less.
With what money? The poor folk don't have any by definition, the middle class is being squeezed out of existence, which leaves... who...?
What does '1925' mean? No more shein plastic semi-disposable clothes that fall within what 1920's would consider sci-fi dystopian, universal basic income disposable clothes? Or hormone/chemical saturated 'food' that they wouldn't recognize as such? Or huge McMansions made of literal urea board and plastic extruded chemical 'luxury vinyl' floors? Brand new technology such mass produced cars, affordably available to the average person?
Only half of US households had electricity. I imagine many of the ones that were electrified didn’t have washing machines.
Likewise, about half of US households had indoor plumbing. So we’re not talking about giving up multiple bathrooms, we’re potentially talking about giving up bathrooms, period. Do you enjoy outhouses? I don’t.
Only one spouse working? That’s a myth. Who do you think was making those tailored clothes, washing the dishes, washing clothes by hand, and all that? Maybe you mean only one spouse getting paid to work, which is quite different.
You’re looking at a life in a small, drafty house that’s very cold in the winter and excessively hot in the summer (my houses were like that in the 1980s, even), crapping in an outhouse, and washing clothes by hand. But you won’t be washing a lot of clothes, because you’ll probably only have one or two sets.
If this lifestyle sounds attractive to you, you can have it right now for quite cheap.
Organic fresh food you'll have no fridge to keep in.
I bet you'll not be able even start a 1925 car without proper training.
I, on the other hand, prefer 2020 standard of life so I’m going to keep working.
Making kids easier to have really only has two real options:
1. Go back down the development timeline of a nation and remove rights from women (bad).
2. Implement more social programs to incentivize children.
The reason we need to do 2 now and not in the past is we've developed. Women have rights now, and we need real reasons for them to have kids, not fake reasons like we had in the past.
Pretty much the only people holding up births in the US is young people who accidentally got banged up. That demographic has only been shrinking as access to contraceptives and education goes up.
We don’t want to remove privileges from people, we want to add on incentives. Currently, there’s a million and one incentives not to have kids.
In principle I think some kind of wealth tax on fortunes above a certain level would be a good idea. But there are a lot of practical implementation problems in terms of identifying and valuing illiquid assets. Like for example I have friends who own forestry land (for softwood timber harvesting) in a foreign country. Those assets have some value but trade infrequently so there's no reliable market price. And they probably hold the assets through a foreign corporation rather than directly in their own names. What is a "fair" amount for them to pay in taxes, and how would the government enforce that in a consistent and cost-effective manner?
1) I'm amazing, I can solve any problem, I'm enlightened by my own intelligence, I'm the mover and shaker who drives all worldly productivity, and I do it by wrangling the newest technologies in the most imaginative creative and intelligent ways, no problem is too great for my superior intelligence!
2) Pay taxes? Ah but, uhh, that's impossible; like ... who decides? There, there's a dealbreaker for you! Hah! And anyway how much? I.. I... there's complexity, don't you know how difficult and complex it is to ... own a forest? Nobody could make a decision, I can see already that the combined might of a nation's experts could not come up with a figure, forget AI, this is just ... give up already, come on, some problems are forever out of reach.
I also want all of those things to survive, but I really don't think that mixing with other people poses a danger to them. If anything I recognize that most of the food I eat, most of the words I speak, the clothes I wear come from some interaction with other cultures.
> I also want all of those things to survive, but I really don't think that mixing with other people poses a danger to them
You're wrong. Go to any city that experienced mass immigration, and then to a city that didn't. See which one is culturally rich.
Because all of those things are a product of nurture, not nature. If your twin was adopted, raised in a different country and didn't speak your language would you still consider them part of your culture?
> You're wrong. Go to any city that experienced mass immigration, and then to a city that didn't. See which one is culturally rich.
Oh, like Paris?
Honestly I'm trying to come up with a large city that didn't experience mass immigration and the only thing that comes to mind is something like Pyongyang. At this point I'm not sure if you meant that seriously, but mass immigration is something that pretty much defines being a large, culturally vibrant city. I come from Rome, and the moment our city was richer both economically and in terms of culture was when it was at the center of the Roman Empire and it was experiencing huge influxes of people from all the corners of the known world.
> Oh, like Paris?
Yeah, a complete shadow of it's former self. It is completely unrecognizable compared to even 15 years ago. Thieves everywhere.
> Honestly I'm trying to come up with a large city that didn't experience mass immigration
Tokyo? Warsaw (Before Ukrainian refugees)? Prague? All beautiful cities, safe and culturally rich. They have immigration, which is fine, but not mass immigration. Most of the people you will see are natives with some tourists.
> but mass immigration is something that pretty much defines being a large, culturally vibrant city
Completely false. Mass immigration is what kills cities. It's also illogical. Culture is built upon generations of people. When you mass import foreigners, you are diluting that culture, killing it. It's partially why US cities are less culturally rich compared to EU cities.
The Roman Empire fell, so not a great example.
That's only true if you are racist. To me anyone who grows up fully immersed in Italian culture is Italian. Period. An American who calls themselves Italian, doesn't speak the language and has never visited isn't.
> Yeah, a complete shadow of it's former self. It is completely unrecognizable compared to even 15 years ago. Thieves everywhere.
15 years ago I used to live in Paris, every time I visited more recently I found it greatly improved. Not sure what Paris you've been to. Also mass immigration in Paris is a very old phenomenon. At any point in time in the past 100 years Paris was something like 30% foreign born.
> Tokyo? Warsaw (Before Ukrainian refugees)? Prague? All beautiful cities, safe and culturally rich. They have immigration, which is fine, but not mass immigration. Most of the people you will see are natives with some tourists.
Haven't been to Tokyo so I can't comment, but honestly Warsaw and Prague over Paris? Prague is cute, but it's not much of a real live city, with a bustling cultural scene. It feels a lot more like a museum for tourists. Warsaw, meh.
> Completely false. Mass immigration is what kills cities. It's also illogical. Culture is built upon generations of people. When you mass import foreigners, you are diluting that culture, killing it. It's partially why US cities are less culturally rich compared to EU cities.
If what you mean by culture is some old buildings you might be right, but honestly I'll take NYC, Chicago or LA over Prague or Warsaw any day in terms of culture being produced right now.
> The Roman Empire fell, so not a great example.
The Roman Empire still stood for far longer than any modern nation state.
Racism is denying the European indigineous people the right to their own nation. Why do Europeans have to accept importing immigrants, who, statistically, commit more violent crimes?
> Haven't been to Tokyo so I can't comment, but honestly Warsaw and Prague over Paris? Prague is cute, but it's not much of a real live city, with a bustling cultural scene. It feels a lot more like a museum for tourists. Warsaw, meh.
Way safer and way nicer cities to live in than Paris, but the latter is a personal preference I guess.
> I'll take NYC, Chicago or LA
I remember visiting Google LA's office. There were junkies shooting up at the garage entrance.
What culture is being produced? The culture of gangbangers? Culture of homeless junkies harassing people on the subway?
> The Roman Empire still stood for far longer than any modern nation state.
And they were quite heavily xenophobic too. They did start giving our citizenship more broadly - preceding it's death.
Immigration when done right, can have a positive impact. Both economically and culturally. However, I think mass migration into declining populations risks having the opposite effect. I’d like to present a historical example.
Hawaii has a famously multicultural society. That being said, it became that way because rich plantation owners simply wanted cheap labor. In the span of a few decades the native Hawaiians became a minority in their own land. Traditional Hawaiian culture is practically extinct as a result. The economic situation of native Hawaiian communities remains impoverished to this day. They wound up being marginalized and almost all of the economic gains that resulted from the mass migration went to those who implemented it. Going further, the Kingdom was eventually overthrown. This was partially enabled by the fact that the new population was so fractured and disunited.
Since statehood, the politics of the state have been largely been controlled by Japanese Americans. Japan was the largest source of immigrants to the Kingdom. There is nothing inherently wrong with this, however. I allege no racism on the part of the descendants of plantation workers. I just wanted to illustrate how a society can be radically altered through mass migration in a relatively short amount of time.
I can only speculate, but I imagine if the Hawaiian people in the 1800’s had known this would happen, they would have chosen a depressed economy instead.
It's racist for people born in or who are citizens of a country - today - to resist the governing class allowing foreigners to immigrate to benefit the economy AND it's racist policy - historically - for a governing class to push immigration on a natively born population for economic reasons.
Instead let's try a hypothetical. Perhaps someone has a historically oppressed indigenous background (perhaps they even have brown skin) it is possible that they may not want any more immigration into their lands.
In my opinion that would be a very understandable position for them to take given the historical circumstances.
The economic argument isn't as clear cut as you suggest either. An economy with excess supply of underutilized labour isn't going to see many gains from immigration.. There's market distortion to consider with regard to housing supply as well, and plenty of other reasons someone may take a valid position against immigration without being racist
https://britishonlinearchives.com/posts/category/articles/62...
https://asiatimes.com/2019/06/malaysias-indians-face-growing...
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-jun-22-mn-43757...
Advocating for immigration just so you have cheap labour sounds cruel.
> Mixing of cultures and ethnicities is good
No it's not.
> It makes us stronger and our system has always been made more resilient by absorbing the most adventurous, those who are willing to risk it all
Yeah, like higher rates of homicide?
the later you retire the less money you need. So if you are not personally ready why did you fund that much while if you sant to go sooner you need to save anyway.
Retirement age in Australia is 67. A report from 2024 going on the 2022/23 FY said the average age at retirement (of all retirees) was 56.9 years. People typically plan for 65.
Couldn't find Danish data, but 43% in AU rely on a government pension. 27% on superannuation or similar (I assume this will grow a bit). Those reporting no personal income is down from 24% to 12% over the last 10 years.
Here, companies compulsorily pay 11.5% into super funds for staff.
All that said, I'd rather see more support for people living in their prime rather than being tied to a desk. I don't see the point in purely waiting until retirement.
What we should be doing is aggressively cutting the cost of living so that people who want to can afford to retire while still maintaining some reasonable quality of life. The number one thing that would help is to set policies that make it easier to build more housing because that's the largest expense for most people.
It's not an unfunded mandate running on deficit spending.
So probably it won't be wiped away by a global monetary crisis that forces us to cut deficit spending and reduce pensions.
The highest total tax rate in the world perhaps?
Denmark is like all the other Nordic countries culturally, except they have much easier direct geographic lines to Central Europe. So it’s basically what you get when you combine the Nordic model (tiny homogenous Lutheran population) with more advantageous geography. Finland is Denmark with extremely unfortunate geography.
The Nordic model was created by socialist and labor movements in the 20th century. Finland, a tiny homogeneous Lutheran population, even had a brutal civil war over this. Nothing to do with religion or ethnicity.
And it’s everything to do with religion and history, why do you think all the Nordic countries had these same 20th century movements and all have extremely similar governance approaches.
Marxist-Leninist countries typically don't have high taxes. Which is kind of obvious as the state doesn't rely on taxes for income. North Korea claims to have eradicated taxes.
> And it’s everything to do with religion and history, why do you think all the Nordic countries had these same 20th century movements and all have extremely similar governance approaches.
Shared history sure: they were geographically very close to each other, or even under shared rulers (e.g. Finland under Sweden for half a millenium), Scandinavian languages are essentially dialects of each other, they were all part of the wider European socialist and labor movements etc. The religion and Lutheran churches opposed development if anything.
The Nordic system is not very radically different from the continental Europe in general, more a matter of degree.
Perhaps, with major conceptual gymnastics, state ownership can be seen as "taxing" potential private capital gains. But this is kind of the point of state socialism.
Societal coherence has been aided by the isolation, and here is the hot take: this cannot exist in "diverse" societies. Not because of bullshit genetic superiority justifications, but because no diverse society has so far demonstrated the capacity to have a shared purpose, coherence and high degrees of trust.
And yes, I do find monoculture societies (including denmark) very boring, and I believe diversity has other great benefits. But societal stability and long term prosperity in that sense? Doesn't look like it.
Before someone mentions the US as a counterexample, do not forget that all the prosperity of the US came from basically seizing an underutilised (in the industrial sense) resource rich continent, and now it is falling apart by internal divide.
And if you gave me a choice between a world divided in small Denmarks or between the contemporary re-armament of the west due to the election of a populist buffoon combined with decades of mismanagement of a unipolar world, I wouldn't think twice.
I don't know much about Denmark but somehow I doubt that this attitude extends to taxing rich pensioners more (since they didn't contribute enough).