It reminds me of the Phineas Fisher quote:

"...Hacker culture was born in the US as a counterculture, but that origin only remains in its aesthetics — the rest has been assimilated. At least they can wear a t-shirt, dye their hair blue, use their hacker names, and feel like rebels while they work for the Man."

Agree. It's cringe and yikes.

The essence of hacking culture remains with Hacktivism, hacking "for the Man," and everything in-between as it is all still...hacking. The profession attracts a very specific type of person and greatly rewards those who excel. Why is the culture considered lost if state-sactioned? In my opinion, that would be some of the most exciting exposure, with an added benefit of zero legal woes.

Because you can’t be punk if the government is writing your checks. You are the beast, not the scrappy underdog.

Throw in some geopolitics then. Hack Russia for Ukraine if you have to feel like the scrappy underdog while working for "the man".

In my opinion this genuinely only works if you are doing this separate from The State. Like I always told myself if the PRC actually invades Taiwan, I'll drop everything and dedicate my life to solo / group finding ways to harm the PRC digitally. I bet there are agencies in the USA where I could get paid to do the same, but then I'm working for the USA government, who is also the enemy of my values, maybe not as much as the PRC but still.

It's a pretty common trope that a revolutionary (a cultural mindset I think hackers adopt) will sometimes / inevitably need to adopt the tactics of their enemy, but even if that's a truism, you certainly don't need to work for them. You can find your own way, especially in hacking.

Because when you go to the NSA to hack Russia, you have no guarantee you'll actually be assigned that task. They might ask you to first hack the leader of a "potential terrorist organization," then you do so and it turns out it was an activist leader in the Black Lives Matter movement. What are you gonna do, complain to your boss? And, now you're a Fed. Now you can't even turn around and be a whistleblower or whatever because the State knows EVERYTHING about you, background checked you, and can smack you with a legal baseball bat if you act against their interests, slapping you with charges like "sharing state secrets" or whatever else they can dream up about confidential State information and technology.

No thanks. Like others are say, you can't be punk and a fed.

Anyway we're drawing fake lines in the sand here. Even if the PRC and the USA are at war, they're probably doing so at the whims of the real "Man," that being capital interests, corporations and billionaires. By plugging into the USA "side" you're just working for corporate interests in the end.

But being the underdog is not necessarily the most exciting part. It's standing against a formidable adversary, autonomy, and mastering the technology so deeply as to use it well past its design limits what attracts many hacker types. It can be pretty compatible with being a secret agent at Her Majesty's service, for instance.

(These qualities are not entirely unlike the qualities that define e.g. an elite fighter jet pilot. But you can't realistically be an elite fighter jet pilot and an underground punk.)

That's just called being a boot. You don't have much choice in fighting off Putin or environmentalists in third world countries when ordered to, you're now Serving Your Country.

You can't fight for and against the man at the same time.

> hacking "for the Man," and everything in-between as it is all still...hacking.

I think it would be fair to distinguish between the activity of hacking and the spirit of hacking. The author of the quote is pointing out the cognitive dissonance in regards to the spirit.

Yep, there are no longer individual vigilante hackers, they are all working for corporations or governments now.

The quote you're replying to is from one (admittedly, from several years ago). It does seem to be getting rarer, but consider that the ones still active might not want to make themselves publicly known.

There definitely still is... But I think after circa 2012 when people found out the Anonymous movement was just a cia/fbi Honeypot, no grass roots hacker groups publicly advertise.

What, it was? I went to an anon anti Scientology protest once. Was I just being used?

Due to the nature of it being a label anyone can take on it can be used by anyone, including state actors, just to rack on a layer of extra plausible deniably when wanted. That doesn't mean the organization itself was ever or always compromised, just that the label could be used by pretty much anyone.

Don't some people make a living solely off bounty hunting..? Please don't shatter my reality like that

/s

Yes, I have a friend who does this for a living. The trick is apparently to get a high enough rating that companies give you software pre-release, and you can vacuum up the low hanging fruit before everyone else.

He claims legacy car companies are bad at security and pay a lot.

Some people make a living off of competitive tennis, or golf, or even bowling.

But 99% of tennis courts aren't being used for by or for serious tennis-pros.

I dunno, doesn't Crimew fit the bill?

To be honest this sounds like something the screenwriters might have given as a line for "the plague" in Hackers (1995), the movie.

Last year there was a meme going around in the German hacking scene when Google received Pwnie’s “lamest vendor award” for closing 11 zero-days. The reason for that award is that western intelligence agencies abused these exploits for “counterterrorism operations”, so Google essentially shut down a whole spying op.

The joke about it was that closing security holes is never “lame”, and that the American hacking scene consists to a large extent of FBI, NSA or CIA, which explains the award.

To quote Felix von Leitner [1]: “They can say “Ex-“ a hundred times, but you won't get rid of the stench by declaring the termination of your employment.”

[1] http://blog.fefe.de/?ts=9c0bef46

>and feel like rebels while they work for the Man."

it is significantly more subversive to slowly, dilligently and without much attention change existing institutions rather than 'sticking it to the man'. That's the difference between teenager hacktivism and effectively pursuing change. The boring, blue haired kids at gov. institutions are going to run them in 20-30 years.

Obnoxious, loud, visible activism or counter-culture usually just exists to draw attention to itself while generally getting nothing done, and even taking pride in that fact.

This was a tactic used by the german far left around rudi dutschke and to some extend the RAF. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_march_through_the_institu... imho it didn't go very well, they all got assimilated in the end. ( for germans see Joschka Fischer ).

The two types of activism are symbiotic. The obnoxious, loud, and visible activism takes the attention (and resources) while test ballooning the expanding or moving of the Overton Window. Changing institutions without drawing attention is way easier when someone else is drawing the attention, and louder activists are also a great 'stick' for convincing others to do things your way: "Well, if we don't do this, those people might be the ones making these decisions...'

And from a loud activist point of view, the slow and steady/sneaky workers are the ones who can do things like bail people out of jail, funnel money and information, etc.

to be fair it's like most counter-culture (there are always exceptions of course)

True. People either get old and less idealistic in the process or they just realise they don't have the power to change things and instead focus on other things which they do have power to change e.g. their position within society or the the amount of interaction they have with society.

Regardless of how good it feels to express discontent towards the status quo there is a cost to giving society the middle finger.

I dunno. I like being able to go to work in a t-shirt and shorts, make really good money, and not look over my shoulder wondering if today is the day one of my co-workers fucks up their opsec and gets me caught up.

Phineas Fisher can look down their nose at me, but I got clean money and avoided the drugs and gang culture that took out so many of the associates I had growing up. If working for the man is losing, give me another L.

Looks great on mobile, too. https://ibb.co/hBG7sgL

Seemingly both their graphic designers and web developers (probably call them "webmasters") are stuck in the 90s judging by the source.

The content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" was interesting to me since I'm so used to seeing utf-8. Caring about charset seemingly makes little sense here, given everything is embedded into the image. I wonder if this page was created by a generator.

That is a really weird catch- actually now that I look at it, this looks like some sort of PowerPoint to HTML export.

I’d bet money that’s what it is now.

Put away your wallet. It has the stink of Microsoft FrontPage.

What sort of hacker uses mobile though? You're supposed to have like 8 CRT screens.

A mobile hacker uses mobile. It is rather hard to lug around those screens while war-cycling etc.

I love the random Canadian flag in there, because apparently every other country's police forces' crest should be recognizable to everyone on the internet, but the Canadians ones are just too obscure.

I suspect the block with the Canadian Flag, RCMP logo, and Sûreté de Québec logo were placed as a block at the request of the cooperating Canadian agencies together as their logo for Canada’s involvement, and that the Canadian flag is not placed there because the FBI is singling Canada out differently.

The RCMP and Quebec Provincial Police logos are also there to the left of the flag, just way smaller than they need to be.

Yeah, and it's not even in the correct proportions. It's like it was created with Word Art. Ugh.

Also I bet that the design guideline of most of these logos mandate a wide whitespace around them. These jokers even smushed the logos of the Finnish and the Netherlands police together. “Oh i see you let a bit of space in your logo empty. Mind if I push in an other logo there?”

I assume AFP is the Australian Federal Police?

At first glance, it looks like they have twenty sponsors donating for them to host some kind of public hackathon.

Also a typo in the alt text & wonky css that leads to weird stretching when the aspect ratio is not the same as the intern's who put up the page.

All the logos on this make it look like they are sponsoring a 5k race.

Looks almost like they're pretending to have been seized for an April Fool's joke.

I was hoping for there to be a recruitment link in the source code. None, only clean HTML.

Images can have data "hidden" inside of them, just so you know :)

There is very obviously a recruitment link there. Look again.

Hint: It is above the image data.

That's not "hidden" though, it's the alt text that also appears verbatim on the image itself.

FBI agent in a hoodie looking at a monitor with a similar person in a hoodie as the wallpaper reminds me of AI-generated images (when AI doesn't know when to stop with the prompt and repeats same object several times, especially somewhere in the background)

Someone has called this 'semantic bleeding' which I think is an amazing name. It also happens in text generated by large language models.

There must be a day when someone sits down and creates the art of the seized site.

Job Posting: Seize Art Designer UI/UX

Or is just the newest, youngest recruit who has any type of experience with Photoshop (or mspaint even) that gets a list of images and has to put the image together, which they then paste into Microsoft Office Publisher 2003 and voila, done.

I have hazy memories of unleashing the power of PowerPoint. Just as VBA provides a whole IDE baked into a vanilla install of Office and thus leapfrogs any question of 'why', so PowerPoint packs a box of almost limitless publishing potential - it's got layers (sort of), it's get transparency (and a very nifty 'remove background' tool), it's got an undo button, it can export to multiple formats, it can even do animation (with sound!), it can do more! I'd wage a few cookies on PowerPoint.

This was a joke on some security podcast I listened to. More realistically, some nerd in the agency does it graphics on his/her free time and shows it to their boss.

"Let's roll with it!" the boss exclaims.

I wonder if the fbi have any mandatory requirement to conform to web accessibility guidelines.

If they do, an ALT tag saying "pwned" should suffice.

They do, actually! There's a whole laundry list of guidelines Federal entities have to adhere to when making websites, both internal and external. You can learn more here: https://www.section508.gov/

I find it so weird... It doesn't look like an official government notice, it looks like advertisement or spam from the early 2000s.

Complete with a non-proportional/stretched/distorted Canadian flag randomly thrown into the logo soup.[1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Canada

Also the "kerning" on that image is just freaking pathetic. I say kerning because it looks like they used MS Word for this.

because they do not have an official police logo, i guess

We absolutely do: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Canadian_Mounted_Police

(PS.: Can't edit my comment any longer, but the parent commenter completely altered their question sometime after I answered. Amusingly, the answer to the new question can also be found in my reply: the Canadian police is the "RCMP" in English, or "GRC" in French.)

There are literally two Canadian police logos directly next to the flag.

Some of the logos are pretty cool too. I mean, how could you even be against something called EUROJUST.

It is amusing.

What is that next to the cookie? To the right? Is that a cookie monster with eyes?

Reminds me of a great quote from John Waters about hacker aesthetics, specifically the hoodie. “Well, the Unabomber did that first. The Unabomber owns the hoodie, come on.” https://lavendermagazine.com/our-scene/the-wisdom-of-a-filth...

Love the qintel logo in the bottom right corner. It's like they are not even trying to hide they're working with the baddies. Hail Hydra!

What's the controversy with Qintel about? Not to be confused with In-Q-Tel.

Well they had to up their meme game after Anonymous managed to hack this onto a government website: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaPni5O2YyI

Qintel went all in: https://www.qintel.com/

edit: lol one of their images is a mecahnical octopus climbing the Great Wall of China

Government agencies often have fun when they have occasion to produce art. You might enjoy this collection of mission patches from National Reconnaissance Organization satellite missions [1].

[1] https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/satellites/g2728/best...