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Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by ChuckNorris89 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @01:18PM (#30947535)
Ah yes, good ol' SGI, it always brings a smile to my face reading these old war stories.

I wish we could get some insight on the development of the first successful 3D game on PC, Quake by I'd software as there's a famous picture of John Carmack sitting in front of some SGI workstation with a monitor with a resolution ox 1920*1080( in 1995!)

Also, SGI powered most VFX Studios of that era, so many great movies went through those machines before ending up on the big screen.

It's insane how quickly 3dfx, Nvidia and Intel X86 consumer hardware made SGI workstations overpriced and completely obsolete within the span of just a few years. The '90's were a blast.

But still, I'm sad to see SGI go, as their funky shaped and brightly colored workstations and monitors had the best industrial design[1] in an era of depressing beige, grey or black square boxes.

[1] https://preview.redd.it/tt3ziuwt98o31.jpg?auto=webp&s=e5cc61...

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by pengaru on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:21PM (#30948394)
> It's insane how quickly Nvidia and Intel X86 consumer hardware made SGI workstations overpriced and completely obsolete within the span of just a few years. The '90's were a blast.

Let's at least give some credit to 3dfx Interactive for PCs dethroning the 3D giants. There was a time practically everyone playing Quake had a Voodoo card.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by ChuckNorris89 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:28PM (#30948495)
Pretty much.

With the advent of semi fabs like TSMC, STM, etc. making their processes more accessible to smaller fabless companies, 3dfx, PowerVR, ATI, Nvidia and other startups in the 3D space back then, realized they can replace all those expensive discrete RISC chips SGI was using for their massive 'reality engine' PCBs, and instead design a cheaper and more efficient custom ASIC from the ground up that does nearly the same things SGI's reality engine was doing (triangle rendering and texture mapping was enough for a PC 3D accelerator back then), but at 1/100th of the price, and sell it to consumers.

Fast forward, and we all know how the story played out and where the industry is today.

>There was a time practically everyone playing Quake had a Voodoo card.

Yeah they were the most desirable piece of tech back then, plus, the marketing and advertising 3dfx had at the time was wild as hell.[1]

Even the box-art on their GPU boxes was the most memorable of any HW of that era. Anyone remember those eye glaring down on you from the store shelves?[2] I feel like this is now a lost art.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NWUqIhB04I

[2] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkiRZhLW0AQzR7g.jpg

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by Sohcahtoa82 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:52PM (#30948791)
> 3dfx came with their Glide API

As a teenager/young adult in the late 90s/early 00s, I was so glad to see 3dfx fail. I hated how popular the Glide API was since you could only run it on a 3dfx card. I had asked for a 3dfx Voodoo for Christmas one year, and my dad got me a Rendition Verite 2200. It supposedly had better performance than a Voodoo while having a lower price, but it couldn't run Glide, so couldn't play half the games I wanted a Voodoo for.

I didn't want to feel ungrateful to my dad, so my frustration got targeted to 3dfx for making a proprietary API when OpenGL and Direct3D existed.

I eventually got a Voodoo Banshee, but by that time Glide was falling out of favor.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by ChuckNorris89 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:54PM (#30948824)
>my frustration got targeted to 3dfx for making a proprietary API when OpenGL and Direct3D existed

Do you happen to know a fruity HW company that today runs it's own proprietary graphics API when the open Vulkan or OpenGL exist? /s

All jokes aside, back then it made sense why every 3D HW company was baking their own API. It wasn't just for gatekeeping/rent seeking, but the consumer 3D graphics acceleration business was brand new, there was no standardization, so nobody knew where the future was heading, so they wanted to have full control over it as they built it. Plus, they were shipping hardware before Microsoft had come up with DirectX so they needed some API until then, and I assume they were afraid to touch OpenGL, the API of their biggest competitor.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by Nextgrid on Thursday April 07, 2022 @03:45PM (#30949492)
To be honest, I can't think of anything that's actually exclusive to the fruity company's graphics API? I mean, they have no game market to begin with.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by pjmlp on Thursday April 07, 2022 @03:53PM (#30949575)
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by ______-_-______ on Thursday April 07, 2022 @06:07PM (#30950906)
I'm sure at least 99% of those use an opengl-metal translation layer
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by pjmlp on Friday April 08, 2022 @12:59AM (#30953459)
It is so beautiful to have dreams.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by MaxBarraclough on Thursday April 07, 2022 @06:09PM (#30950925)
Is Metal any more proprietary than Direct3D?
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by zozbot234 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @06:25PM (#30951071)
Direct3D has alternate implementations as part of Proton. Is there anything like that for Metal?
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by coopierez on Monday April 11, 2022 @08:48AM (#30987950)
There's MoltenVK - I was under the impression that was similar to Proton, but for Vulkan running on Metal.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by Sohcahtoa82 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @05:23PM (#30950497)
> Do you happen to know a fruity HW company that today runs it's own proprietary graphics API when the open Vulkan or OpenGL exist? /s

Yeah, but how many AAA games use it exclusively? Every AAA game I know of is either using Vulkan, OpenGL, or DirectX directly, or they're using a game engine like Unity or Unreal and abstracting away the graphics API.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by pjmlp on Friday April 08, 2022 @02:20AM (#30953887)
Abstracting away the graphics API and using the one native to each platform is using it directly.

You forgot the Playstation (LibGNM/LibGNMX) and Nintendo ones (depending on the generation, microcoded GPU, GX (Wii), GX2 (WiiU), NVN (the main one on the Switch), Vulkan and GL 4.6).

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by Sohcahtoa82 on Friday April 08, 2022 @12:50PM (#30959497)
> Abstracting away the graphics API and using the one native to each platform is using it directly.

No, it's not. What a silly thing to say.

Is the developer writing Metal code? No. Then they're not using it directly. They're using an abstraction.

"using it directly" means the developer is writing Metal code themselves. Writing Unity code that eventually gets compiled to Metal is not writing Metal any more than writing C that gets compiled into machine code means you're writing machine code.

Think of it this way...if someone wants to hire an experienced Metal developer for a Mac-exclusive game, do you think someone who's only developed using a game engine like Unity would be qualified?

> You forgot the Playstation (LibGNM/LibGNMX) and Nintendo ones (depending on the generation, microcoded GPU, GX (Wii), GX2 (WiiU), NVN (the main one on the Switch), Vulkan and GL 4.6).

Irrelevant to the conversation. We can talk about developing with proprietary APIs and continue to just use Apple's Metal as an example without bringing up all the other proprietary APIs. Not sure why you think I "forgot" all the other APIs.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by pjmlp on Friday April 08, 2022 @02:13AM (#30953837)
I also know a couple of game console vendors with their own proprietary APIs.

If networking protocols were managed the same way as ARB and then Khronos do their work, we would only have the RFC for the IP layer, and then lots of extensions to choose from for the upper layers and traffic monitoring from each networking card vendor.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by aledalgrande on Thursday April 07, 2022 @09:26PM (#30952306)
Totally agree, could never afford a Voodoo, so I was stuck with reading about it on magazines and playing on an entry level PowerVR
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by ogurechny on Thursday April 07, 2022 @11:11PM (#30952952)
I think you're retrofitting the common clichés about proprietary APIs into your memories. First (circa 1995) 3D accelerators were all different and incompatible with each other: NV1 was using Saturn hardware (and only got used in some Saturn ports), 3D Rage had its own API (creatively named CIF, from “C interface”), S3 Virge had its own API (S3D), Vérité had its own API (RRedline), Voodoo had its own API (Glide). Interoperability wasn't even discussed; when (some) games added support for (some of) those, it usually was a completely rewritten executable, i. e. port to that graphical architecture. The main difference between those accelerators was that the former targeted fillrates of top consoles of previous years, still hanging on early nineties 3D vision (a couple of low poly models; fake perspective, like in racing games; mix of 3D and 2D sprites and backgrounds; z-buffer? you can simply draw polygons in proper order!), while the latter competed with professional accelerators (in fillrate, not in shading capabilities), and made a breakthrough.

(By today's standards, those famous early 3D games were laggy crap, both hardware- and software-rendered, on many/most period-correct computers. It's rarely said that simple things like texture interpolation (computationally way too much for a CPU) were new, and impressed people more than fps counters. Yes, the vaseline polygons were once the look of the Future!)

Then two companies leveraged their positions to change that course. First was Microsoft, which really needed everyone to start using system-wide multimedia APIs instead of dozens of unmanageable DOS era bypasses offered by this or that hardware manufacturer. So Direct3D was introduced, and then quickly remade in a numbers of later versions to match the breakneck progress in hardware features (or directly wrap around them, if you wish). On one hand, it was a universal API, on the other, people would still write “ATi code” and “Nvidia code” years later.

The other was id Software, though not in a straightforward way. Quake I was ported to accelerated hardware (vQuake, glQuake). Partially because of vQuake experience, Quake II compartmentalized the renderer into a library, and only that library was supposed to be written with the help of hardware makers (or by them). Ironically, OpenGL support was more of a tech demo thing because id Software had the expensive professional hardware, and regular users obviously didn't, despite the calls to support that API in consumer 3D accelerators. Even more ironically, 3dfx decided to make a bare minimum OpenGL wrapper library for Glide to let already existing glQuake run on Voodoo instead of trying to make some deal on the porting. They called it MiniGL. Soon other manufacturers, game makers, and people trying to make this or that existing software work on consumer PCs followed the example, and the world saw a lot of custom hacked "opengl32.dll" semi-implementations tightly coupled to respective applications. Of course, if any of them happened to be copied into system directory, everything but the specific software running with specific hardware that library was supposed to support crashed or broke. Those who tried to write new programs by the book using these wrappers probably had some problems, too.

Then Microsoft was forced to act, even though it never really intended to support alternatives to DirectX family. It made OpenGL (standardized) an official system-wide API, but made the system library to be just a wrapper over complete OpenGL implementation provided by hardware manufacturer (if present). So it continues to this day, and making everything work properly has been AMD/Nvidia's problem, not Microsoft's. This is why people on Windows can still choose between OpenGL and Direct3D in game settings, and see something on screen using both. But when it all got started both were just thinner or thicker wrappers over what chip designers initially had in mind.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by Sohcahtoa82 on Friday April 08, 2022 @01:04PM (#30959705)
The first version of Direct3D shipped in DirectX 2.0 (June 2, 1996) and DirectX 3.0 (September 26, 1996) [0], but the 3dfx Voodoo came out in October 1996 [1].

In other words, by the time 3dfx had a product out the door, Direct3D already existed. The fight over proprietary APIs should have been over and Glide should not have existed. DirectX 5, which greatly matured the Direct3D API, came out in August 1997, less than a year after the Voodoo, and still 6 months before the Voodoo 2. Glide should have been dead by then.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct3D#Direct3D_2.0_and_3.0

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3dfx_Interactive#Products

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by pjmlp on Friday April 08, 2022 @02:25AM (#30953908)
Carmack also has public stated that DirectX is a much better API nowadays.

"Carmack: Direct3D is now better than OpenGL"

https://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/pc/carmack-directx-bett...

Another bit of history, before DirectX, during the days of Win32s extensions for 16 bit Windows there was WinG library, which provided an accelerated framebuffer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinG

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by randomifcpfan on Friday April 08, 2022 @06:19AM (#30955284)
There was a strong pro-OpenGL faction at Microsoft. Their goal was to support ports of Unix OpenGl apps to Windows NT. That the resulting OpenGL driver also supported 3D games was mostly an unintended side effect.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by justsomehnguy on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:42PM (#30948671)
> realized they can replace all those expensive discrete RISC chips SGI was using for their 'reality engines', and instead design a custom ASIC from the ground up that does nearly the same things SGI's workstations were doing

This one. It is amazing seeing how some monstruosity of a full-length, full-heigth cards were replaced by, essentially, a single chip solutions. I would recommend something akin to a computer museum to see exactly how it came to be.

On mobile ATM, if someone is interested - leave a reply, I would provide some links on the most interesting ones.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by ChuckNorris89 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:50PM (#30948760)
>It is amazing seeing how some monstruosity of a full-length, full-heigth cards were replaced by, essentially, a single chip solutions.

Yeah, I'm surprised SGI didn't see the tides turning as the ground shifted beneath them and the rest of the industry leapfrogged them.

But that's what made SV great, young visionary companies could come out of nowhere and eat the lunch of old dinosaurs who lacked the vision.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by jandrese on Thursday April 07, 2022 @03:23PM (#30949196)
I did a stint as a co-op for SGI back in the late 90s. What was clear at the time was that there was a flight of the smart people out to the early PC graphics card industry causing serious brain drain in the company. This was also the time the company was making astoundingly overpriced PCs that made the bad bet on RAMBUS.

The reality is the company suffered from the same fundamental market forces that killed off most of the Workstation market in the 90s. No niche company could spend what Intel was spending on R&D every year so their performance advantage was continually eroding, while the price points for the hardware were not. Trying to transition to being a PC manufacturer wasn't totally crazy, but it would mean competing a highly price competitive market which SGI was absolutely not equipped to do.

I had the impression that the smart people in the graphics department saw that management was never going to go along with their "lets build far cheaper and better versions of our existing products on a PCI card that you can stuff in a cheap off the shelf PC" that would massively undercut the core business. So they quit the company and started nVidia.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by npunt on Thursday April 07, 2022 @05:57PM (#30950822)
Even Intel flirted with RAMBUS and paid for it. When I was at Pandemic Studios in 99-02, we'd get lots of prototype hardware from Intel and they sent us PIII's with the RAMBUS-exclusive i820 chipset. The things were impossible to get working stably and the RDRAM was ludicrously expensive. Total dead end from the get-go, and slower than AMD's stuff.

Intel was really on a dumb path starting in the late 90s, with RAMBUS, Itanium, the P4 debacle, and missing the emerging mobile market, and didn't right themselves until 2006 with the Core series. But they were big enough to be able to make a few mistakes unlike SGI.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by Dracophoenix on Thursday April 07, 2022 @07:23PM (#30951531)
THE Pandemic Studios?! If so, I have you and/or your coworkers to thank for fun times with the original Battlefront games.

Now with that out of the way, did Pandemic always use x86 or did it use other architectures, like SPARC or Alpha?

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by npunt on Saturday April 09, 2022 @07:20PM (#30973087)
Yeah the Battlefront games were awesome! They were a bit after my time but built on the foundations of multi-vehicle combat that we worked on in Battlezone II, just supercharged with more open world capabilities and obviously fantastic IP with Star Wars.

Originally we were just x86 PC games but started working on console stuff in mid-2000. I got a chance to head up design on a PS2 game with Sony, and we had one or two other 'keep the company alive' projects as well before having the breakout hits of Full Spectrum Warrior and Battlefront. By then I was well off to college though.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by linspace on Thursday April 07, 2022 @04:54PM (#30950228)
> that would massively undercut the core business

This happens a lot of times. The reality is that someone will do it for you. Sometimes they even grow bigger than you.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by ChuckNorris89 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @04:19PM (#30949854)
> there was a flight of the smart people out to the early PC graphics card industry causing serious brain drain in the company

Yeah, I can imagine you could count on the fingers of your hands, the number of people could, back then, design 3D acceleration hardware, so it must have been a pretty exclusive club in the Bay Area at the time where everyone in this field knew each other, I can only assume.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by olivertaylor on Friday April 08, 2022 @12:51AM (#30953432)
> Yeah they were the most desirable piece of tech back then, plus, the marketing and advertising 3dfx had at the time was wild as hell.[1]

Haha. Amazing commercials. I don’t remember those at all, but they’re 100% on brand for the times.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by agumonkey on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:30PM (#30948519)
> There was a time practically everyone playing Quake had a Voodoo card.

those who had a voodoo + those who wanted to have one = 100%

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by porbelm on Friday April 08, 2022 @05:40AM (#30955089)
3DFX did not dethrone any CGI giants though. The PC did, but at the time it was by getting an Evans & Sutherland or similarly novel 3D accelerator for like $3000 and a copy of Maya or 3DS Max for like $1500

Which had enough power to dethrone the Indy or O2 at a fraction of the price :)

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by lostgame on Thursday April 07, 2022 @08:17PM (#30951911)
Voodoo was peak 90’s graphics for me. Loved those cards.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by jweather on Friday April 08, 2022 @10:55AM (#30957745)
Had to have a Voodoo to stay competitive in QuakeWorld by seeing people hiding in the water. The peasants with software rendering had opaque water textures. My Voodoo card eventually developed a texture-memory corruption bug that would result in brightly-colored speckles appearing on Quake's dingy industrial textures, turning it into more of a Candyland world. Good times.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by Melatonic on Thursday April 07, 2022 @06:11PM (#30950946)
Voodoo 2 ftw
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by walrus01 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @01:36PM (#30947759)
as I recall the SGI monitors were actually the pinnacle of Sony Trinitron CRT tech, rebadged, and connected using a 13W3 analog video link. Similar to the very high end Sun at the time. As neither SGI or Sun actually made CRTs, they went with the state of the art from the world's top CRT maker. Might have been some mitsubishi diamondtron in there too.

In 1995 I think there were 16:9 aspect ratio japanese model TVs but I am not sure about monitors, might have been more like a 4:3 1600x1200 display.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by ChuckNorris89 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @01:46PM (#30947917)
>In 1995 I think there were 16:9 aspect ratio japanese model TVs but I am not sure about monitors, might have been more like a 4:3 1600x1200 display

Nope, it was definitely 16:9, but I was mistaken, it was an Intergraph[1], not SGI like I originally thought, but still connected to an SGI workstation.

Just look at this beast[1]. Also, the monitor is in the photo as well :)

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comments/gxvm99/legendary...

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by walrus01 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @01:47PM (#30947928)
I can't even imagine what that might have cost, it was probably sold for high-end CAD and similar...
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by dclowd9901 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @09:54PM (#30952481)
Sounds like it. A link in that thread points to someone stumbling upon a trove of six of them, owned by an avionics company.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by dylan604 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:43PM (#30948692)
There's a semi-easy way to spot a Trinitron if you knew where/how to look for the tell. There were 2 horizontal lines that were shadows from some bit of wiring that could be seen when viewing the screen when certain images/patterns like solid colors were displayed.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by syncsynchalt on Thursday April 07, 2022 @03:01PM (#30948922)
I had a Sun workstation with a beast of a 19" Trinitron CRT in the late '90s in my apartment (working remotely for a California startup) and remember it fondly. The lines you're referring to are called "damping wires" in this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aperture_grille
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by JohnBooty on Thursday April 07, 2022 @03:58PM (#30949642)
There's an even easier way on older Trinitrons - the bulge of the glass is different.

Notice how the left and right sides of the glass are straight vertical lines, and only the top and bottom edges are curved: https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-consumer-electronics-hall-of-f...

Versus a standard CRT, where all four sides are curved: https://fineartamerica.com/featured/vintage-tv-scott-chimber...

Of course, the final-gen Trinitons (circa 2000 onward) had truly flat glass, so there was no tell-tale curvature to look for.

And once Sony's patents started expiring, there were competitors like Mitsubishi's Diamondtron displays with glass shaped like Trinitrons. I'm not sure if they had the two horizontal lines like Trinitrons.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by valley_guy_12 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @03:35PM (#30949363)
I remember that shadow! FWIW it was just one line in smaller Trinitrons, and it was located 1/3rd of the way from the top or bottom edge rather than in the middle.

Apple mounted the Trinitron tube upside down compared to other vendors, so that the faint horizontal line would be in the bottom third of the screen rather than the top third.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by rasz on Sunday April 10, 2022 @06:24AM (#30975848)
Worked for national PC parts distributor in ~1999. We were regularly having shops trying to return CTX monitors because of the "bad lines" :)
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by Melatonic on Thursday April 07, 2022 @06:13PM (#30950961)
You could also "overclock" them to run at higher refresh rates (frame rates, hz) depending on the resolution. The top CRT's were blowing away LCD's for many, many years. Good color, higher refresh, good dynamic range, etc etc. Those 21" CRT's were massive but I held onto my second hand one for as long as I could. I remember getting the VGA adapter for the Dreamcast and it looked damn good on that CRT!
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by zozbot234 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @06:22PM (#30951044)
Driving CRTs at bad frequencies was a common way of letting all the magic smoke out, back in the day.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by Melatonic on Thursday April 07, 2022 @07:29PM (#30951568)
Throwing them in a trash bin and then smashing them with a sledge hammer was also a good way to do that and a bit louder :-D
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by rasz on Sunday April 10, 2022 @06:11AM (#30975781)
This is a myth, true only to some very early(as in 87-89) VGA fixed frequency monitors.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by rjzzleep on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:05PM (#30948170)
I still remember buying a dirt cheap SGI monitor back in the day. But it took a while before I figured out how to mod the cable because of sync on green.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by dylan604 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:44PM (#30948705)
Yeah, component cables with 5 BNCs RGB+Hsync+Vsync. Good times!!
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by jeffreygoesto on Thursday April 07, 2022 @03:02PM (#30948934)
Fixed Frequency, crafting an X mode line on a cheap 14", no text readable during boot, fingers crossed if X came up ok, if not, swap monitors, boot with "init=/bin/bash" and goto 1...
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by midnightclubbed on Thursday April 07, 2022 @01:48PM (#30947955)
The SGI monitors were 4:3 but I don't recall the resolution. I do recall that they were beasts, weight of a small elephant and a not dissimilar size - you needed to pull your desk away from the wall to get any kind of distance to the screen.

Over time their timings would drift and you could never get the entire screen completely sharp.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by angst_ridden on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:40PM (#30948653)
I just finally gave away a 17" Trinitron SGI monitor when cleaning my office.

That thing was a tank! I bought it at a CG house bankruptcy sale in the 90s for $2k, which was less than half the going price at the time.

But you're right, it weighed a ton. It did need periodic degaussing. And when a communication company half a mile away put in some satellite uplinks, I could see when there was heavy communication traffic by a slight color shift on one side.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by cfn on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:05PM (#30948165)
And there was a button you could press to "de-magnetize" the screen which made this awesome noise!
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by lostcolony on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:34PM (#30948579)
Degaussing. Most(all?) CRT monitors could do that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjO2vVaxIWM
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by cfn on Saturday April 09, 2022 @07:59AM (#30967268)
Yes that was the word I was looking for. I gave away my last monster CRT 20 years ago and these things fade away from memory. Thanks!
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by throwanem on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:54PM (#30948830)
Degaussing buttons were common on high-end CRT displays. They were always that fun!

In the mid-2000s, I worked at a place where we had several "decommissioned" Indys living a second life as Apache servers for some of our hosting clients - not uncommon in those days. We had one of the big 19" 4:3 CRTs on a KVM, too, and its weight put a noticeable if graceful curve in the MDF desktop on which it stood.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by rbanffy on Thursday April 07, 2022 @07:41PM (#30951651)
There was a time I had a 20” Apple behemoth on my desk in the open plan office. Degaussing it made the image on every monitor within 3 meters curl up in magnetic agony.

It was a lot of fun.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by AyyWS on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:37PM (#30948611)
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by cfn on Saturday April 09, 2022 @08:01AM (#30967278)
Yes but I could degauss mine when it was on. The image would rotate back and forth some 30 or 40 degrees which was fun.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by bluedino on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:05PM (#30948174)
It was an Intergraph monitor, connected to an Integraph workstation. Carmack didn't use SGI's for development but they did use their servers for level processing
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by MisterTea on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:58PM (#30948884)
> But still, I'm sad to see SGI go, as their funky shaped and brightly colored workstations and monitors had the best industrial design[1] in an era of depressing beige, grey or black square boxes.

This is what I miss most about the 90's and proprietary computer vendors: the exotic fun looking cases they had vs boring beige Mac and PC cases.

I have an SGI 230 which was a last ditch effort to stay relevant via offering a regular x86 machine in an ATX SGI case. Unfortunately SGI ditched the snazzy cube logo sy then so it only has the lame fisher price sgi logo stenciled on it. It now houses a 12 core threadripper running Void Musl.

Before that workstation, the 320 and 540 used Intel P3/Xeon chips on proprietary motherboards, 3D GPU/chip-set and even proprietary ram modules. Only ran nt4 and was a miserable failure of a machine.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by aftbit on Thursday April 07, 2022 @04:54PM (#30950230)
Why Void? And why Void musl?
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by MisterTea on Friday April 08, 2022 @03:28PM (#30961471)
It works for what I need and I like the BSD influence. Musl explores a cleaner c library. I run glibc stuff like Steam in containers and I run an AMD GPU. I don't have any direct need for systemd so its interesting to try alternatives.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by jl6 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @01:46PM (#30947914)
I recall CRT monitors were capable of some quite high resolutions (often with a compromise to refresh rate), and it took a while for LCD panels to overtake them.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by bityard on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:05PM (#30948164)
CRTs, being analog, are theoretically capable of _any_ resolution. But in practice, most monitors were limited to between a few to a few dozen common modes. Toward the end of the CRT monitor's reign, most monitors could display higher resolutions than was really practical for their size, as the physical limit is the size of the "dots" that make up the phosphor layer. (Which is probably not at all the right terminology, because I'm not a CRT geek.)

The refresh rate compromise at higher resolutions was due to the limitations of the graphics card, NOT the monitor.

LCDs took a little while to catch up for a few reasons:

1) expense! It was hard and expensive to manufacture a display containing millions of transistors with an acceptable (read: profitable) failure rate.

2) colors! LCDs had a reputation for extremely poor color quality in the beginning. Blacks were medium gray at best and primary colors all looked washed out. Today's LCDs still have a hard time getting to "true black."

3) ghosting! Early LCDs had poor response times. Move your mouse cursor and watch it leave a trail across your screen. Fine for word processing and spreadsheets. Terrible for games.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by dylan604 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:51PM (#30948787)
>as the physical limit is the size of the "dots" that make up the phosphor layer.

Another physical limit was the weight of the glass. The larger the display, the glass got thicker and thicker to "lens" the beam correctly so the edges/corners were straight. We had a Sony reference CRT for our film transfer/color correction suite that was a 32" HD monitor. MSRP was >$30k for it. (Sony's reference monitors were roughly $1k per inch in pricing.) The thing was stupid heavy requiring a minimum of 2 people if their names were Arnie; otherwise it'd take at least 3 maybe 4 typical post house employees. All of the weight was in the front.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by agumonkey on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:32PM (#30948544)
the CRT had no frequency limit ?
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by wtallis on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:59PM (#30948896)
CRTs had limits on how quickly the beam could scan across a line (and return to the other side of the screen for the next line), which imposed a tradeoff between the number of lines per frame and the number of frames per second. Within a line, the number of pixels per line was often limited either by the speed of the graphics card's DAC or the analog bandwidth of the VGA cable. But sometimes it wasn't, and you could take a monitor originally intended for something like 1280x1024 and get it to display 1920x1080 with acceptable sharpness, after adjusting the picture height to compensate for the changed aspect ratio.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by stjohnswarts on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:59PM (#30948894)
Of course they did, the scan rate of the electron guns would be limited at some point. What that limit is I don't know but it was certainly finite.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by agumonkey on Thursday April 07, 2022 @03:16PM (#30949105)
I wonder which component who limit first.. the gun or the flyback driver.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by postalrat on Thursday April 07, 2022 @07:07PM (#30951409)
I was figuring the magnetics that steer the beam.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by zbuf on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:08PM (#30948207)
It certainly took a long time (mid 2010s) for panels in their various guises to truly overtake CRTs for film work. The reason given at my workplace was the calibration control of CRTs took time to be superceded.

The Sony 21" CRTs (and 24" in widscreen) had a very good run -- spanning several decades. They were certainly capable of higher resolutions, but the 1600x1200 was pretty much a standard (or 1920x1200 on the 24" widescreen) for that entire run. I can't think of any other desktop workstation performance 'metric' that was stationary for so long.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by aceazzameen on Thursday April 07, 2022 @03:20PM (#30949160)
I miss my Sony Trinitron that I gave away in 2015. I remember not having an "HD TV" when I first bought a PS3, so I hooked it up to my Trinitron with component cables and it displayed beautifully. The 1080p TV I bought at a later date felt like a downgrade, despite the larger size.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by sbierwagen on Thursday April 07, 2022 @06:37PM (#30951144)
1600x1200 is 1.92mp, while 1920x1080 is 2.07mp. Technically more pixels, but juuust barely. For quite a few years my setup was a 1080p panel next to an aged ColorSync 20" and the difference was mostly the falloff in the corners of the CRT. (And the incredible weight of the CRT, of course. 78 pounds!)
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by aceazzameen on Thursday April 14, 2022 @05:01PM (#31033242)
Late to respond, but 1600 x 1200 was the default resolution on my Trinitron. I believe the max preset resolution was 2048 x 1536 @ 75hz. So it was able to display 1920 x 1080 letterboxed just fine. I wish I never gave it away, but I sure don't miss moving it!
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by paulpauper on Thursday April 07, 2022 @01:49PM (#30947966)
I read that CRTs are still better in some respects
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by ridgered4 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:57PM (#30948871)
Input latency, flexibility of native resolution (they don't really have one). It's been awhile since I've looked at them side by side, but I think they're still better on black levels. I suspect color reproduction has caught up though.

It's not surprising they fell out of favor though. Once the ghosting stopped being absolutely horrendous the LCD is just superior for office work. Uses less power, saves tons of desk space (and due to less weight, doesn't need a strong desk) and no flickering means a cheapo LCD is probably easier on the eyes than a cheapo CRT.

I bet the CRT wwould still be used more often if the supply chain to make them didn't fall apart when the demand disappeared.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by dylan604 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @03:51PM (#30949556)
For giving you cancer!

When Sony first brought out their OLED reference monitors to the market, they had a demo at NAB to demonstrate the various screen types. All of the monitors were the equivalent reference version of that series: CRT, LCD, OLED.

It was an interesting demo as they had the same feed going to each monitor. When showing how each monitor could display black, the OLED looked like it was off, the LCD was just a faint shade of gray, while the CRT was much much more noticeably not black from its glowing screen. I started to think to myself how they might be pushing the brightness on the CRT to make it look bad against the others. Right as I was thinking that to myself, the narrator said something to address this thought and then displayed bars. All 3 monitors were correctly adjusted. A gamed CRT with brightness adjusted would have been obvious at this point to those knowing how the test pattern is meant to look.

The only thing I'd suggest that a CRT looks better is on true interlaced content.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by adamredwoods on Thursday April 07, 2022 @07:56PM (#30951753)
Better at making my arm hairs stick up.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by parenthesis on Friday April 08, 2022 @02:08PM (#30960537)
Thanks for reminding me, that as a child I used to love touching the TV screen for the static.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by agumonkey on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:31PM (#30948528)
I'm still stumped by nvidia rise and how gaming propelled them into HPC/Supercomputing. Who knew playing video games who amplify research that much ?
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by ChuckNorris89 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @03:54PM (#30949592)
>I'm still stumped by nvidia rise and how gaming propelled them into HPC/Supercomputing. Who knew playing video games who amplify research that much ?

Jensen Huang did. When people think of tech visionaries they think of Jobs or Musk, but Huang is just as great. He's been bang on the money on the future of this industry since he founded Nvidia, which is how they managed to not just consistently stay ahead of their competition (ATI) or put them out of business (3dfx), but leapfrog them (AMD) by branching in several fields (AI/ML, PhysX, computer vision, self driving, compute etc.) He saw early on that GPUs should push into general-compute and not just be for video games, and he executed well on that.

There are interviews on Youtube with Huang at Standford IIRC, where he discusses his vision of the GPU industry from the early days of Nvidia. Check them out, the guy's not your typical CEO suit focused on the share price, but he's basically a tech genius.

So, to answer your other question about why only Nvidia manage to win compute and not the other GPU companies, it's simple. Huang had the vision for the entire ecosystem from GPU chips, to drivers, to APIs and SW libraries, to partnerships and cooperation with the people and the companies who will use them. Building great GPUs for compute is not enough if you're just gonna throw them on the market without the ecosystem and support behind them, and expect it to be a success. That's what Nvidia gets and the rest (AMD/Intel) don't. So while ATI/AMD had tunnel vision and was focused only on building gaming chips, Huang was busy building a complete GPU-compute ecosystem for their gaming chips with the rest of the industry.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by rchiang on Thursday April 07, 2022 @05:22PM (#30950488)
To be fair, Nvidia hired a lot of people who at some point worked at SGI and 3dfx, so there was already a lot of HPC/server/supercomputing talent working there. There are articles (e.g. https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/239078-ten-years-ago-toda...) showing the transition from having fixed vertex/pixel shaders in the GeForce 7000 GTX series to the generalized stream processors starting with the GeForce 8000 GTX series going forward.

And it's easy to see that Huang and Nvidia put their money where their mouth was. The first GTC was 2009. That's 3 years before the famous AlexNet paper that's often credited with kicking off the current AI on GPUs trend.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by pjmlp on Thursday April 07, 2022 @05:16PM (#30950438)
Same applies to Khronos APIs, they behave just like that, throwing the APIs out there and hoping for the best.

No wonder they are always a shadow of what proprietary ones bring in the box.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by Keyframe on Thursday April 07, 2022 @05:39PM (#30950659)
Not to take anything from what you've said because Huang is really all that and more. Find his interview with Morris Chang to get some more insight. Nvidia, ATI and other players for the most part were seeded by ex-SGI crew however. SGI had an instrumental role in those companies that ate it.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by fomine3 on Friday April 08, 2022 @12:12AM (#30953267)
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by rasz on Sunday April 10, 2022 @06:37AM (#30975913)
>He's been bang on the money on the future of this industry since he founded Nvidia

by wasting two years on Quad rendering? Wonder how much VC money got burned in NV1 and cancelled NV2 debacle.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by Melatonic on Thursday April 07, 2022 @06:16PM (#30950987)
The guy really is a visionary - although I gotta say he really needs to diversify his wardrobe. How long are we gonna see him in the same exact look with the black leather jacket?
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by ChuckNorris89 on Friday April 08, 2022 @02:38AM (#30953985)
His wardrobe is a meme at this point, and Elon proved memes make a great cult following.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by Sohcahtoa82 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @03:01PM (#30948916)
Simple.

Rendering 3D graphics for games and the supercomputing used by AI/ML/research both need the same thing: Embarrassingly parallel math calculations with little or no branching in the code.

For example, a feed-forward neural network is just a whole lot of multiplication and addition. Transforming a 3D vertex in space to a 2D screen coordinate is matrix multiplication, which is just a whole lot of multiplication and addition. If you've already designed silicon to perform those operations in a single clock cycle, making it do HPC/SC rather than gaming isn't that big of a switch.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by zozbot234 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @04:41PM (#30950084)
Neural networks have non-linearities. There were hacks for doing some sort of general purpose computation using the GPU fixed rendering pipeline, but they're not enough for neural networks especially as understood today. You need general shaders, which were a relatively late development.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by agumonkey on Thursday April 07, 2022 @03:17PM (#30949125)
Aight but then why no other company managed to compete on the numerical core array ? still funny, as if the wealthy gaming market funded nvidia venture into serious computing enough to choke the potential competition.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by jandrese on Thursday April 07, 2022 @03:28PM (#30949257)
You need huge money to develop the tech, but the HPC industry is tiny. People are always impressed at these million dollar machines, but only a handful are built every year. There is a lot more money in gaming selling millions of $200-$1000 cards every year.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by ac29 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @07:19PM (#30951501)
There certainly are some smaller companies attempting to compete on making AI/ML chips. Tenstorrent comes to mind: https://tenstorrent.com/grayskull/
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by Sohcahtoa82 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @05:25PM (#30950512)
Silicon is expensive to design, and even more expensive to build. The startup costs are crazy high. By the time people realized it could be a thing, nVidia and AMD already owned the market.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by anthk on Thursday April 07, 2022 @07:02PM (#30951363)
>. Who knew playing video games who amplify research that much ?

Unix was born to play a video game on a different platform. The Curses library for terminals (Windows users: "widgets" for the console") where born for Rogue.

Today, a damn serious OS like OpenBSD gives the BSD games set by default on the base install.

Text adventures for the Z-Machine had top tier grammar recognition parsers.

Then, a lot of simulation games overlapped the serious simulation software features, such as Sim City.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by rasz on Sunday April 10, 2022 @06:36AM (#30975905)
Nvidia is truly special because their first product was a total market miss. They pushed for Quad rendering architecture and as a result could only do _seven_ crappy Saturn game ports. Its amazing they were given 2 more tries! Cancelled NV2 doubling down on quad rendering, and finally Riva 128 almost two years later.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by dylan604 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:41PM (#30948664)
every single teenager whose parental units asked where gaming skills would come into use later in life as an adult. at least the were hoping for something like that.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by agumonkey on Thursday April 07, 2022 @03:08PM (#30949013)
I bet zero 90s teenager said "mooom, how do you expect to cure cancer if you stop me from buying nv chips ?? how ?"
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by dylan604 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @03:30PM (#30949276)
I bet I can stack boxes in a truck better than any pre-Tetris playing person before me!
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by anthk on Thursday April 07, 2022 @07:06PM (#30951400)
Unix was created to play SpaceWar, and now you have Linux, OSX and BSD's based on it.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by dylan604 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @10:30PM (#30952705)
And here I thought it was created to control the phone system.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by rbanffy on Friday April 08, 2022 @02:20AM (#30953884)
Wasn’t it for editing texts?
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by randomifcpfan on Thursday April 07, 2022 @05:34PM (#30950621)
You’re in luck in that the development of Quake is pretty well documented. Both through a book and Carmack’s plan files

https://github.com/oliverbenns/john-carmack-plan

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masters_of_Doom

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by rasz on Sunday April 10, 2022 @06:17AM (#30975819)
>famous picture of John Carmack sitting in front of some SGI workstation

Not Quake. Not 1995. The picture

https://preview.redd.it/x3kqn3bjvb351.jpg?width=557&format=p...

is from Doom3 development, as seen in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjbEdWF1e-I There is Blue G3 on the picture after all, released in 1999.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by markus_zhang on Thursday April 07, 2022 @01:43PM (#30947879)
Just curious what are the state of arts graphic workstations nowadays? Mac pro?
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by walrus01 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @01:45PM (#30947902)
really, really beefy dual socket xeon probably, or amd epyc, with 2TB+ RAM
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by Certified on Thursday April 07, 2022 @03:12PM (#30949063)
Surprisingly, because most CAD and computer graphics programs are still largely not optimized for multi-threaded processors, the fastest workstations are typically using whatever processor tops the single core compute performance category, not the multicore. They are then paired with as much ram as the chipset supports. Also, when you are talking about pro graphics cards like Radeon Pro and the RTX A (formerly called quadro) lines, it only pays to upgrade to the next gen graphics card once your software vendor has had a year or two to integrate with a new hardware gen's capabilities. The pro gfx card market (at least when it pertains to OpenGL performance) is one area that will actually punish you for being too early an adopter, which is disappointing when cards go for several thousands of dollars new. The whole area of CG software has been stagnating for 5 years while OpenGL driver improvements have fallen out of favor for more bare metal processing approaches that are only now getting to feature parody and developer adoption like vulkan. Hopefully the next few years brings a positive trend in CG price to performance again as these new architectures actually start shipping in CG software products. As someone who works daily in CAD, the performance stagnation over the last 5-10 years has been depressing to say the least.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by blevin on Thursday April 07, 2022 @03:47PM (#30949518)
Feature parody is such a good turn of phrase.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by markus_zhang on Thursday April 07, 2022 @04:09PM (#30949765)
Thanks. This is totally new to me. I guess it's the same pic for professional level designers or game designers who basically work in a CAD like environment? For example the people who design levels and scripts for games such as Skyrim.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by markus_zhang on Thursday April 07, 2022 @04:05PM (#30949718)
Got it. I Google around and surprised to find vendors who basically build workstations from market components. Not sure whether they are mainstream though.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by nebula8804 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @02:20PM (#30948380)
Love those designs as the colors are now a direct representation of the 90s.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by zeagle on Thursday April 07, 2022 @06:05PM (#30950888)
This makes me really nostalgic for being introduced to SGI dogfight multiplayer on the local LAN I had occasional access to visiting a family member's employer. It really felt revolutionary for the day compared to the Pentium 1 whatever I had access to at home!
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by samstave on Thursday April 07, 2022 @03:40PM (#30949429)
Fun fact, the O2 had an 'optional' expansion port that was an additional ~$1,000 or so... but the thing is, ALL the O2s had this port - it was that if you paid for it, they popped the plastic cover off the case to reveal the port...
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by bri3d on Thursday April 07, 2022 @04:41PM (#30950085)
I'm not so sure about this, I've owned a lot of O2s.

The only blocking plates on the rear cover of an O2 usually cover the spot where the Flat Panel Adapter or Dual Monitor board goes, and it's not installed by default, or the spot where a PCI card would go, which, well, it's a PCI card.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by p_l on Thursday April 07, 2022 @03:55PM (#30949599)
Which expansion port are you talking about?
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by samstave on Thursday April 07, 2022 @04:05PM (#30949714)
I cant recall what the port was... A serial port? I cant recall - but just that it was on all O2s and it was just knocking out the plastic cover to get access to it.
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by spitfire on Thursday April 07, 2022 @04:39PM (#30950064)
One of the video ports. I think digital video port.

The base model supported audio and "moose cam" (A webcam, in 1996!). If you paid extra you got video.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by bri3d on Thursday April 07, 2022 @06:40PM (#30951179)
Oh, this was the SDI hack, but it needed a separate port expander - it was more involved than just removing a plate.

You could buy the base AV1 "analog" video I/O card and then plug an SDI expansion breakout board (I think the Miranda VIVO was the most popular) into the webcam port, instead of buying the much more expensive AV2 "digital" video I/O card.

Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by p_l on Thursday April 07, 2022 @05:23PM (#30950494)
There were two video options you could buy, with analog and digital versions, plus there were special parts to provide alternative options for display outs (by default it had sgi-style 13W3 only)
Re:The computers used to do 3D animation for Final Fantasy V... by andrewf on Friday April 08, 2022 @03:17AM (#30954216)
https://github.com/ESWAT/john-carmack-plan-archive/blob/mast... is interesting. It transitions from todo list to a narrative format right after Quake launches :) In subsequent years you see Carmack opine on various high-perf platforms for gamers, and also for Quake level pre-processing (engine licensees had money to spend on productivity)

Chapter 64 onwards of https://www.jagregory.com/abrash-black-book/ is Mike Abrash's detailing of Quake's development.

(tl;dr - Quake was developed on NeXTSTEP + an MS-DOS port of GCC (DJGPP), Quake2 was on Visual Studio + Windows NT (this was the era of that Carmack giant-monitor photo), there was an in-between period of free updates to the original Quake, like WinQuake, QuakeWorld and glQuake).