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Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by rgj on Thursday March 25, 2021 @04:04PM (#26584724)
In the mid nineties I worked in a research institute. There was a large shared Novell drive which was always on the verge of full. Almost every day we were asked to clean up our files as much as possible. There were no disc quota for some reason.

One day I was working with my colleague and when the fileserver was full he went to a project folder and removed a file called balloon.txt which immediately freed up a few percent of disk space.

Turned out that we had a number of people who, as soon as the disk had some free space, created large files in order to reserve that free space for themself. About half the capacity of the fileserver was taken up by balloon.txt files.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by victor9000 on Thursday March 25, 2021 @04:59PM (#26585300)
Perfect example of the tragedy of the commons. If individuals don't create these balloon files then they won't be able to use the file server when they need it, yet by creating these balloon files the collective action depletes the shared resource of its main function.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by njovin on Thursday March 25, 2021 @06:45PM (#26586578)
This is similar to how some government agencies retain their budgets.

At the end of the budget period they've only spent 80% of their allocated budget, so they throw out a bunch of perfectly good equipment/furniture/etc. and order new stuff so that their budget doesn't get cut the following year, rather than accepting that maybe they were over-budgeted to begin with.

Rinse, repeat, thus continuing the cycle of wasting X% of the budget every year.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by Aeolun on Thursday March 25, 2021 @07:43PM (#26587090)
I think the problem is that you do not need 100% of your budget every year, but getting it back when you do need it is much harder than keeping it in the first place.

Definite case of misaligned incentives.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by crdrost on Friday March 26, 2021 @12:28AM (#26588745)
Yep! The problem happens when you divide the safety buffer up in the first place. Safety buffers demand to be shared, when one part does not use all of its safety margin you want to transfer that to another system.

Another surprising place where this happens is project scheduling. We budget time for each individual step of a project based on our guess of a 90% or 95% success rate, then our "old-timers' experience" kicks in and we double or triple our time for all the steps together, then our boss adds 50% before giving the estimate to their boss, which sounds gratuitous but it is to protect you because their boss looks at how grotesquely long the estimate is and barks out a cut of 20%, so the overall effect of those two is (3/2) × (4/5), so your boss still netted you a 20% buffer while making the skip-level feel very productive and important.

Say the 50%-confidence-to-95%-confidence gives you 30% more time as safety buffer, and you only double the estimate, and the work that you missed in your initial assessment, while it's not gonna be say half the project, maybe generously it's a third of the project or so. So the project actually takes time 1.5 measured properly, you have together budgeted 1.3 × 2 × 1.2 = 3.12 time. The total project deadline is more than half composed of safety buffer. And we still consistently overrun~!

But if Alice needs to work on some step after Bob, and Bob finishes early, when does Alice start on it? Usually not when Bob finishes. Alice has been told that Bob has until X deadline to complete, and has scheduled herself with other tasks until X. Bob says "I got done early!" and Alice says "that's great, I'm still working on other things but I will pick my tasks up right on time." Bob's safety buffer gets wasted. This does not always cause any impact to the deadline, but it does for the important steps.

Of course, if you are a web developer you already know this intuitively because you work on servers, and you don't run your servers (Alice, for example) at 100% load, because if you do then you can't respond to new requests (Bob's completion event) with low latency. It's worth thinking about, in an efficient workplace, how much are you not working so that you have excess capacity to operate efficiently?

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by marcus_holmes on Friday March 26, 2021 @07:27AM (#26590791)
Have you ever thought of just accepting that you can't predict how long a project will take to complete?

It's a revelation. You get to have some hard conversations with other managers. But in the end everyone finds it easier to deal with "it'll be ready when it's ready" rather than endless missed deadlines and overruns.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by Aeolun on Friday March 26, 2021 @08:56AM (#26591545)
In my experience people vastly prefer their fantasies to reality.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by VSerge on Friday March 26, 2021 @01:03PM (#26594416)
In my experience people demand fantasies, and will fight tooth and nail any encroachment on them by the reality that things never happen as they are planned. Although when I say this, I am thinking of one year and above kind of estimates.

When people who are experts on the topic evaluate the work needed over a period of say 3 months, even in something as notoriously hard to plan as video game production, it can hold. This entails being willing to adjust scope and resources though, when planning, in order to ensure the objectives are likely to be met.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by rntksi on Friday March 26, 2021 @12:56PM (#26594322)
This never worked in 15+ years I've been working. The people who did try that went out the door very soon once management realised some other person could tell them a date and they could plan their business around that date even though that date half of the time got missed anyhow.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by marcus_holmes on Friday March 26, 2021 @01:30PM (#26594723)
Yeah it's tough to get the point across. Worth it if you can, though. For everyone - no-one enjoys rescheduling everything because the deadline was missed again
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by ianmcgowan on Friday March 26, 2021 @04:01AM (#26589750)
If you haven't already, check out the oft-referenced book "The Principles of Product Development Flow". Based on this comment you'd really like it.

http://www.startuplessonslearned.com/2009/07/principles-of-p...

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by watt on Friday March 26, 2021 @12:26PM (#26593965)
Did you notice how your budgeting / estimation guideline converges to "multiply the estimate by Pi" advice?
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by herbcso on Friday March 26, 2021 @01:00AM (#26588887)
I've never understood this about budgeting. So you allocate. A budget. These are fund YOU ARE PLANNING TO SPEND! So, OK, you DON'T spend them this year. Why the fuck don't you get to SAVE THAT MONEY!? No, instead you are punished for now spending it all and you cannot create a realistic budget for next year - why the hell not!?

Sorry, but this frustrates the hell out of me! What am I missing here? What arcane bit of finance lore leads us down this path? Am I just hopelessly naive? Is acing money such a bad thing!? I just don't get it...

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by vagrantJin on Friday March 26, 2021 @08:20AM (#26591183)
Your frustration may come from a good place, believing gov and big orgs want to be efficient. They don't and they don't have to. They are super efficient when it comes to taxes though. At least in my country, every department is trash except the revenue service which is so forward thinking and effective, they put private business to shame.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by jokethrowaway on Friday March 26, 2021 @10:21PM (#26599293)
This definitely rings true.

But I'd say it's not a feature of governments only, any sufficiently big organisation which centralise power ends up being like this. That's why large corporates need nimble startups to innovate: startups either innovate or die.

The government is just the largest example of this phenomenon - and they don't have any analogue for startups, they're just doomed to grow larger and larger over centuries until they collapse.

Look at the USA, once the perfect minarchist experiment and now the largest employer in the world.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by bradknowles on Sunday March 28, 2021 @05:27PM (#26614778)
Not here in the US. The IRS has been crippled by previous Republican administrations to the point of uselessness, as another method of giving free unlimited tax breaks to the millionaires and billionaires that bought them in office.

But god help the poor people who file simple tax returns that can be easily audited, however.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by ianmcgowan on Friday March 26, 2021 @04:10AM (#26589797)
If you don't reduce your budget next year, what does "save that money" mean to a department in a company? If this year I have 105% of last year's budget (because they always go up), what am I supposed to do with the 20% surplus from last year? Most companies wouldn't even have a place in your cost center to track a surplus, it's such a foreign concept.

Zero based budgeting is one answer to the moral hazards of either over or under-estimating your budget on purpose. If each year you start with a blank spreadsheet and then add (with justification) expenses for the year, it avoids some of the pitfalls. Not a panacea however.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-based_budgeting#Advantage...

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by littlestymaar on Friday March 26, 2021 @06:11AM (#26590402)
> (because they always go up)

Ahah, that would be nice. In most company I know, they are shrinking every years, because you know, “cost reduction plans”.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by hunter2_ on Friday March 26, 2021 @01:25AM (#26588997)
Just brainstorming, but maybe the irony is that your scenario somehow has even worse incentives? For example, building up that rollover number would gamify thriftiness greatly exceeding the typical "oops didn't spend it all," and think about the consequences of when you DIY something you're not the best at instead of hiring the pros.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by ike77 on Friday March 26, 2021 @05:12AM (#26590107)
For two reasons:

1) separation of duty: you might not be the best department to invest surplus

2) cost effectiveness: if you're operating with a deficit, as is generally the case with governments these days, this money is not free, so it could effectively be cheaper to give it back and re-borrow it when you actually need it

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by littlestymaar on Friday March 26, 2021 @06:09AM (#26590399)
> 1) separation of duty: you might not be the best department to invest surplus

But with this reasoning there is no surplus, because departments will spend their money at all cost.

> 2) cost effectiveness: if you're operating with a deficit, as is generally the case with governments these days, this money is not free, so it could effectively be cheaper to give it back and re-borrow it when you actually need it

That's totally fine, when GP said “Save the money” they didn't meant “on their own bank account”. It just means: the top management owe them this money when they'll need it later.

Anecdote: I'm currently working on a project started in emergency earlier this month, which must be done before the end of the month (because it's the end of the accounting year at this company) for this exact reason. And this project is overprices by a factor close to two, because this money really had to be spent!

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by abduhl on Friday March 26, 2021 @09:32AM (#26591919)
Top management doesn’t “owe” them any money when they need it later. Say you budget $100 for dinner tonight and you go out and it costs $75. Do you owe the restaurant $25? While certainly some people might roll the $25 into the next day’s meals, some people might allocate that $25 to another cost center like buying a new car.

Budgets are meant to estimate costs and manage cash flow. From a greedy team perspective it’s best (and self interested) to try to game the system as much as possible so you get the largest share of the pie. From the organizational perspective it’s best to reallocate capital efficiently, especially if a team consistently over budgets.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by nybble41 on Friday March 26, 2021 @12:11PM (#26593800)
> Say you budget $100 for dinner tonight and you go out and it costs $75. Do you owe the restaurant $25?

No, but if you accurately forecast that dinner will cost $100 on average, and this time it only happened to cost $75, you should put most of the savings aside for the other times when it will cost $125 and not reallocate it to be spent on something else.

Consistent over-budgeting is still an issue which would need to be addressed, of course, but a system where any annual cost underrun is treated as over-budgeting and punished by reallocating that part of the budget to other groups ignores the inevitable presence of risk in the budget forecast.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by abduhl on Friday March 26, 2021 @01:09PM (#26594473)
We’re arguing about different things it appears. This thread started with someone saying that a team coming in under budget should is “owed” that money in the future by management. I said this isn’t so and that it’s a self centered and myopic viewpoint. You are talking about punishment and reallocation, presumably by reducing the budget the next cycle. I’m not in favor of that unless it’s clear that the team is consistently over budgeting.

For example, if a team says they need $100 a year and comes in at $90 then I don’t think next year’s budget should be $110 while some people in this thread think it should be. That makes no sense. Neither do I think the budget should be cut to $90. Unless something has changed, the budget should stay the same.

Your point about average cost just means that you’re budgeting on the wrong timeframe. If you estimate your average dinner is $100 but you’re spending $75 most of the time except for one huge dinner every month then you should be budgeting $75 for dinner and then budget separately for one large dinner a month. Similarly, if a team says they need $10MM a year but half of that is them trying to amortize a $25MM cost over 5 years then they are budgeting incorrectly. Their budget should be $5MM with a $25MM side fund contributed to on a risk adjusted basis.

The worst case scenario is the team budgeting $10MM when they only need $5MM and losing control of their budget so that when the real charge comes due they’re fucked because they’ve been spending $10MM for the past 5 years without realizing the fixed charge is coming or, worse, realizing the fixed charge is coming but just ignoring it so they can buy new office furniture and exhaust their budget this year selfishly.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by nybble41 on Friday March 26, 2021 @02:44PM (#26595458)
> For example, if a team says they need $100 a year and comes in at $90 then I don’t think next year’s budget should be $110 while some people in this thread think it should be.

IMHO it depends on why the expenses were less than the budget. If it's a matter of probability or essential uncertainty then the savings should be set aside for other occasions where luck isn't as favorable. If the department realized cost savings by improving business practices then most or all of the savings should stay with the department to be invested in future improvements (a one-time carry-over into the next budget period) and/or distributed as reward to those responsible for the improvements, as an incentive to continue making such improvements. If costs were lower because the department didn't accomplish everything they set out to do then that might be a justification for reallocating their budget, and/or implementing more drastic changes to get them back on track.

> Your point about average cost just means that you’re budgeting on the wrong timeframe.

The timeframe for the budget would generally be predetermined (e.g. one fiscal year) and not set by the department itself.

> If you estimate your average dinner is $100 but you’re spending $75 most of the time except for one huge dinner every month then you should be budgeting $75 for dinner and then budget separately for one large dinner a month.

Sure, but I was referring to probabilistic variation due to uncertainty in the forecast, not a predictable mix of large and small expenses. And the "dinners" in this analogy would be once per budget period (i.e. annual for most organizations), not frequent enough to average out.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by abduhl on Friday March 26, 2021 @03:15PM (#26595803)
I think we agree in general and are just quibbling about the details of how to budget correctly (timeframes, line items, etc.). Most of the issues that come up with these stories of people getting their budgets slashed if they don't spend enough or having to buy a bunch of bullshit at the end of the year are just a result of poor budgeting at some point which has been allowed to continue.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by devnonymous on Friday March 26, 2021 @04:08AM (#26589788)
It is about opportunity costs. The budget you did not spend could have been spent elsewhere in the meantime and since it didn't get invested elsewhere, it's not a savings, that's a net loss, because of course anything less than 100% utilisation of 100% of "resources", 100% of the time is a loss .. Or some such.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by littlestymaar on Friday March 26, 2021 @06:13AM (#26590409)
That's probably because of this kind of reasoning that people just throw away money threw windows, because “gotta get rid of it all”.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by hadsed on Friday March 26, 2021 @01:36AM (#26589049)
Seems it's the yearly cycle not matching up to the longer cycle of certain needs that's a problem.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by EricE on Saturday March 27, 2021 @01:09PM (#26603714)
Ding Ding Ding! They aren't misaligned, they are flat-out perverse incentives.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by bottled_poe on Friday March 26, 2021 @03:06AM (#26589510)
Why aren’t there rolling budgets over multiple years with annual reviews on spend?
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by throwaway0a5e on Friday March 26, 2021 @09:41AM (#26592014)
Because nobody in government has any incentive to do something that risks shrinking the size of the pie.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by pishpash on Thursday March 25, 2021 @09:05PM (#26587738)
If only there was a way to get things only when you need, like trading.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by skissane on Thursday March 25, 2021 @07:38PM (#26587049)
Years ago I worked as a research assistant for a university. One day, my boss (a professor) pulled me aside for an impromptu meeting. "I have $5000 left in a research grant I need to spend this week or else it's gone forever – do you have any ideas of what I should spend it on?"

Unfortunately I couldn't think of much. I suggested maybe we buy some more computers with it but I'm sure he'd already thought of that himself. I don't know what he ended up doing, but I'm sure he'd have decided to buy something with it rather than just losing it entirely.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by lostlogin on Thursday March 25, 2021 @09:59PM (#26588039)
This is usually handled much more elegantly by senior academic staff.

You contact a department who’s services you use a lot, then you arrange to pre-pay for services. Ideally you negotiate a discount.

Then you use the service and state which grant to draw from.

This way you have grants paying for things that are completely unrelated to their intent, you have one nightmare of a billing system which no one understands and you get to use everybody cent.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by chuckleMuscle on Thursday March 25, 2021 @08:21PM (#26587430)
This as a fairly recent occurrence in my research group. It’s often quite tedious because you don’t want to waste the money and it’s never clear if there’s going to be a period where we’re short on cash at some point in the future. most of it’s spent on boring but expensive things to be used down the line. Would be far better if funding wasn’t quite so cyclical!
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by EveYoung on Friday March 26, 2021 @08:54AM (#26591522)
Could you order conference tickets or something similar that allows free cancelations in the future? In my previous job, we did this to carry over training budgets.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by noisy_boy on Friday March 26, 2021 @03:18AM (#26589572)
Buy annual licenses. Then renew if you want to block the same amount next year OR don't renew and use it for what you actually need.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by kmonsen on Thursday March 25, 2021 @11:39PM (#26588527)
I was in the army, they had a certain budget for bullets. Last day of the year we shoot the rest because if not they would get less next year.

We shot so much we destroyed some of the rifles, apparently that was better than getting a smaller allocation next year.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by HelloNurse on Friday March 26, 2021 @04:27AM (#26589892)
Did you have a budget for replacement rifles too? Unlike bullets, there might be some incentive to get new and different ones.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by kmonsen on Friday March 26, 2021 @11:00AM (#26592948)
That I don’t know, they were all replaced with the same (old) version.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by lostlogin on Thursday March 25, 2021 @09:56PM (#26588026)
> This is similar to how some government agencies retain their budgets.

The non-government sector isn’t immune to this.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by sgregnt on Thursday March 25, 2021 @10:20PM (#26588159)
If whatever actions turn a non government entity into something inefficient, then the entity wont survive for long and will go out of business (or at least that's the hope of a competitive free market economy)
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by com2kid on Thursday March 25, 2021 @10:31PM (#26588216)
> then the entity wont survive for long and will go out of business (or at least that's the hope of a competitive free market economy)

Only if the inefficiency is large enough to overcome other forces.

Or to put it another way, picture if every single individual teams at Google did this to the tune of 100k a year, per team, and assume among 135,000 employees there are 13500 teams.

That's 1.35 billion dollars. Well under 1% of their revenue.

No way is a competitor going to appear that is identical to Google in every way except they have better budget management. Google has too many moats around their business, they can be really inefficient in many many ways and still dominate in multiple markets.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by kaba0 on Friday March 26, 2021 @04:01AM (#26589749)
> competitive free market economy

It was not even believed by Adam Smith. He writes that it only works that way in a controlled environment. That’s why European countries usually rank higher in market freedom than the US, because we don’t have companies getting so cancerously big that they have very real effects on law making (how lobbying is legal is still beyond me)

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by marcus_holmes on Friday March 26, 2021 @07:32AM (#26590819)
You need to take another look at how the EU makes laws, and who gets to propose them, and who they talk to.

It's less blatant, but just as pernicious.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by jokethrowaway on Friday March 26, 2021 @10:28PM (#26599342)
The USA got rich because of unbridled capitalism. Then richness trickled down through generations of companies while regulations caught up and their government became a behemoth not dissimilar to the ones living in EU and that the USA was running from.

Nowadays the USA jurisdiction is comparable to the EU one, but they still have more $$$.

If you like freedom rankings I recommend these ones: https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by kaba0 on Saturday March 27, 2021 @03:41AM (#26600691)
Did that richness really trickle down? Just look at the distribution of that money.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by vinay427 on Sunday March 28, 2021 @05:44AM (#26609089)
Of course. I agree with what I think you're getting at, specifically that not nearly enough richness trickled down. However, the poorest Americans today are still significantly better off than they were in most any previous decade or century because a bit of that wealth did trickle down.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by scaramanga on Saturday March 27, 2021 @03:41AM (#26600692)
In what time period did this "unbridled capitalism" happen?
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by ridethebike on Friday March 26, 2021 @03:18AM (#26589567)
It's not always the case.

I work at one of those US bank.

The amount of inefficiencies in form of red tape, confusing processes, custom half-baked tools that crash half the time is just mind-boggling. I've spent more than a week now for opening firewall on one ip/port on one host just to test my prototype in dev environment(local machine or docker are not an option due to lack of admin rights ), and it's still in change approval stage. If we weren't this giant too-big-to-fail bank we'd be out of business by now.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by eyelidlessness on Friday March 26, 2021 @12:25AM (#26588728)
Hope is a really interesting way to frame something that has consistently failed to prove true after centuries of theory and decades of targeted policy changes.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by otikik on Friday March 26, 2021 @07:07AM (#26590689)
Banks get to privatize the profits and socialize the loses often.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by ultimape on Thursday March 25, 2021 @10:33PM (#26588225)
you can survive a lot of inefficiency if you are a natural monopoly.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by mellavora on Friday March 26, 2021 @04:19AM (#26589853)
Ann Rand, is that you?
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by duxup on Thursday March 25, 2021 @07:14PM (#26586846)
Government?

I see that as the SOP for large companies too...

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by flamble on Thursday March 25, 2021 @09:36PM (#26587914)
It's possible that once a company reaches a certain size, it's inevitable. Corporations internally have the same top-down centralized organizational structure as a typical government. Market forces can't eliminate that kind of inefficiency if it invariably affects all large enterprises, and the economies of scale enjoyed by such companies outweigh the perverse incentives of sub-organizations.

What strikes me as unique to government is the tendency for sufficiently powerful appendages to secure enough resources to start wagging the dog (e.g. the military industry in the US), although now that I think about it seems possible that it would happen within companies.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by acdha on Thursday March 25, 2021 @11:56PM (#26588601)
Also don’t forget how unevenly applied market forces are: if McDonald’s started charging 10% more for a hamburger they’d lose sales to Burger King a LOT faster than, say, Comcast or Oracle because the products are basically the same and most customers can switch almost effortlessly whereas you have to be especially mad to trench fiber out to your house or migrate every database in a large enterprise.

Any business with a natural monopoly, high migration costs, etc. can support a surprising amount of inefficiency even if most of their customers find the experience unsatisfying.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by duxup on Thursday March 25, 2021 @10:51PM (#26588306)
I think the common feature is just humans.

I think we imagine a lot of market forces that no doubt exist, but people aren't logical in the face of them.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by throwaway0a5e on Friday March 26, 2021 @09:44AM (#26592044)
True,

But large companies tend to have MBA types scurrying around rooting this stuff out as it pops up or shortly thereafter. Government has no such sort of immune system to fix these problems on the go. It just gets sicker and sicker until the tax payers vote for something drastic or revolt.

You see this in nonprofit entities too. They get big, abstract away from their mission and waste a lot of money until someone gets tasked with cleaning house or a more mission-driven comes along and replaces them.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by LaserToy on Thursday March 25, 2021 @09:45PM (#26587952)
You will be surprised, but I saw the same behavior in the large tech company.

Department either uses or loses the budget, so, there was a push to make sure nothing is left.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by madpata on Thursday March 25, 2021 @07:24PM (#26586941)
I talked about that topic with my principal when I was in school.

He told me that the school had to prevent those automatic budget cuts. His reasoning was that it's nearly impossible to get a higher budget if some big expenses had to be made. And suddenly needing a higher budge, after for example 3 years of low expenses, doesn't make a good impression on higher-level administrators.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by osrec on Thursday March 25, 2021 @08:24PM (#26587450)
Reminds me of this episode of The office: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Surplus
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by Gravityloss on Friday March 26, 2021 @06:21AM (#26590443)
Office always had such a weird version of what happens in an"office". Having a secretary who people ask to take photocopies?

Sounds like the eighties!

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by osrec on Friday March 26, 2021 @12:00PM (#26593645)
I think that's sort of the point. The branch was run by a guy (Michael Scott) that is actually pretty old school and utterly unaware of it.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by Sn0wCoder on Thursday March 25, 2021 @08:54PM (#26587664)
Thanks for the recommendation. Going to watch it tonight.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by CaptainZapp on Friday March 26, 2021 @06:32AM (#26590504)
Why single out government agencies?

That's the way in every major corporation I ever worked for too.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by ryoshu on Friday March 26, 2021 @11:45AM (#26593457)
This happens in private industry too. I can set my watch by the fiscal calendar of certain groups in public companies having to spend their budgets by the end of their year so it doesn't get cut the next year.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by efficax on Thursday March 25, 2021 @11:01PM (#26588355)
The departments of every large org do this, private sector and public
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by atleta on Friday March 26, 2021 @01:50PM (#26594927)
Not only government agencies. I've seen it at big corps and universities too.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by erdos4d on Friday March 26, 2021 @08:53AM (#26591514)
This is similar to how some university departments retain their budgets.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by downrightmike on Friday March 26, 2021 @11:02AM (#26592986)
That's why the US Navy dump perfectly fine fuel overboard.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by eurasiantiger on Thursday March 25, 2021 @07:13PM (#26586837)
Bunks only go up.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by Rule35 on Thursday March 25, 2021 @05:51PM (#26585909)
It's a decentralized implementation of a quota system.

By slowly releasing supply you prevent anyone having to self-regulate (which requires unreasonable deprivation, OR global knowledge) and everyone bases their decisions off of the only global signal, free space.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by myth_buster on Friday March 26, 2021 @09:00AM (#26591586)
> Perfect example of the tragedy of the commons.

More like perverse incentives.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by eevilspock on Thursday March 25, 2021 @09:40PM (#26587929)
Tragedy of the Commons is the libertarian "private property is essential" interpretation. It's a cynical take, assuming that human selfishness is the deepest of truths and that there is no use fighting it, that the best solution is to organize society around it.

The conventional Game Theory take is that this is a prisoners dilemma, and everyone creating balloon.txt files are defecting. They are making the most rational choice under the rules of the game (no communication thus no reliable cooperation). It's no globally optimal, but it is locally for each of them. This take also suffers from the same assumption: that rationality is centered on self-interest only.

If we are to evolve as a species, then we need to get beyond such limited thinking. We need to transcend our base natures. That is the whole point of culture: to transcend as a group what our genes otherwise program us as individuals to do.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by c3534l on Thursday March 25, 2021 @10:49PM (#26588300)
Tragedy of the Commons effects are well-established to exist both in economics and outside it (in ecology, for instance). You seem to be attempting to shoehorn some misguided political take into the situation, even though Tragedy of the Commons is a decent characterization of this particular social pathology.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by ksm1717 on Friday March 26, 2021 @12:34AM (#26588783)
Their point was that tragedy of the commons need not be a given anywhere we see tragedies or commons. Last paragraph is lofty but I think the whole idea is we have the cognitive ability to deliberately prove its not a natural law.

Understanding sociology as ecology at human scale is core to libertarianism.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by eevilspock on Friday March 26, 2021 @04:02AM (#26589752)
Yes. Thank you.

Though did you mean, "Understanding sociology as Darwinian ecology at human scale is core to libertarianism."? Because the notion that ecology is characterized only by "the law of the jungle" is also strongly debated. Even "the selfish gene" is debatable simplistic reductionism. Individuals aren't the only actors; there are higher order emergent entities, e.g. species and ecosystems, that also evolve to perpetuate themselves and flourish, much like our own bodies are cooperative and interdependent systems of cells (with native and foreign DNA, the latter existing primarily in our GI tract) that originally evolved as single-celled "selfish" organisms.

And as you point out, "we have the cognitive ability" that nature lacks. We can do at least as well.

As to "lofty", I agree. But let's consider other things that were once considered lofty if not insanity:

- in ancient Greece, that democracy should be extended beyond the aristocracy

- in Medieval Europe, that democracy should exist at all, that the divine right of kings should be seen as a scam

- in the 19th century United States, that democracy should include women and blacks

- in the 1970's United States, that lesbians, gays, bisexuals, transexuals and queers should be treated with the same dignity as straights, should be able to marry, adopt children and serve in the military. And that we stop using "he/him" by default as you just did because that is an artifact of patriarchy as well as outmoded thinking about even binary gender.

- in India today, that when a woman is raped, she should be protected by law and the male rapist should be punished, not the other way around. The same proposition if proposed in America or Europe not all that long ago.

- I can make a really long list but you get it :)

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by dkarras on Friday March 26, 2021 @07:32AM (#26590821)
This is self conflicting. You take "human selfishness is the deepest of truths" as a mere assumption, then you say "we need to transcend our base natures".

Human selfishness IS nature. It is not just about humans either, all evolution is guided by environment (resource availability).

For anything else you need ALL people to NOT be selfish, only some being altruistic does not cut it. Your only other option is to punish selfishness, but then you will ban progress.

If most people don't create the balloon.txt file, BUT, there is no punishment for creating one, then if I believe I have a good idea and that I DESERVE more resources to pursue it, I'll create a nice big balloon.txt file. Your only option is to punish me for doing so. I would not want to live in a world where people are punished for trying to gather resources to make things that most other people won't. Some people have bright ideas, and they need resources to pursue them. Most people don't have many ideas and they don't want to do anything. If you prevent the means of passionate people to gather big resources to do big things, and want to live in a zero entropy world where everything is equal (made sure through the use of force / punishment, which will eventually be corrupt, because by definition punishers can't be equals to others) and nothing moves because of it, keep dreaming. It is not even scary because that literally cannot happen.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by nybble41 on Friday March 26, 2021 @12:21PM (#26593917)
The way to resolve this particular tragedy of the commons, like most other such cases, is to privatize the commons: make people pay for the disk space they use. If you want a nice big balloon.txt file to reserve space for the future, fine, but you're paying for the space you reserved. How you use it is up to you. In return, the administrators get both the money and incentive they need to buy more storage capacity, ensuring that running out of available space will be less of a concern.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by nickpp on Friday March 26, 2021 @06:07AM (#26590389)
> we need to get beyond such limited thinking. We need to transcend our base natures

Refusing to accept the human nature as-is and always requiring some sort of "evolved new man" is one of the characteristics of the communist/socialist ideology.

Also a handy excuse when the system inevitably fails: it wasn't the system, it was the selfish people who did not implement it correctly.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by eevilspock on Friday March 26, 2021 @06:40AM (#26590540)
Ahhh the old "socialism/communism inevitably fails" meme.

Let's assume one could even call those failures communism/socialism.[1] How long have we experimented with and developed socialism/communism? 100 years.

How long have we been trying to get democracy right? 2,500 years. With many starts, fits and failures, devolving into dictatorships many, many times. The self-proclaimed "greatest democracy in history" is guilty of genocide and slavery. Even today how much it is a democracy as opposed to an oligarchy/kleptocracy/plutocracy is questionable.

How about capitalism? 500-800 years. And in that time it has exploited, enslaved and murdered people, pillaged entire nations and continents[2], raped the environment, and poisoned every culture that has adopted it with the notion that "selfishness is a virtue".[3]

The only reason capitalism hasn't collapsed (yet) is because capitalists are smart enough to not do pure capitalism, knowing that it would lead quickly to revolution, and because the environment's revolt is just getting started.

---

[1] “The west called [the Soviet Union] Socialism in order to defame Socialism by associating it with this miserable tyranny; the Soviet Union called it Socialism to benefit from the moral appeal that true Socialism had among large parts of the general world population.” ~ Chomsky

[2] The United States: "look how many people died in the Soviet Union's industrialization program!"

Socialists: "how did the United States industrialize again?

The United States: "look, you need to do a BIT of genocide and slavery to kick things off…" ~ Existential Comics

[3] One of the most beneficial things about immersing yourself in deep study of American history is that you get to a point where this country can no longer effectively lie to you about why it is the way it is. It disabuses you of the notion that the inequality we see is an accident. ~ Clint Smith

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by jokethrowaway on Friday March 26, 2021 @10:39PM (#26599403)
Capitalism is not exploiting anyone. Capitalism is purely about organising the economy around voluntary transactions.

Exploiting, enslaving and murdering is purely what socialist countries do - and they can get away with all of this, just because they can socialise the cost of all their evil deeds and force people into paying them money.

The only reason capitalism hasn't collapsed is that it's the only way to have a profitable economy. The crooks that you call government recognise that they can steal only so much from the economy before a country collapse.

I'd also argue that we've experimented with elements of socialism and elements of capitalism for the entire existence of civilisation.

Communism can't work unless you have either perfect individuals or a tyrannical states which force resources distribution. In the real world, you end up with socialism. Because people are not perfect, the government which will redistribute resources won't do a perfect job in the best case and will just be completely corrupted in the worst case.

And still, communism was attempted. When did we ever attempt to have an entire capitalist society without a government to ruin it?

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by ric2b on Thursday March 25, 2021 @10:51PM (#26588305)
So other people acknowledge the problem, provide a solution, and your response is to say "that is selfish libertarian propaganda, the real solution is some magical evolution"?
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by ycombinete on Friday March 26, 2021 @01:45AM (#26589089)
It’s not just libertarians. I’m sure that even communists accept the premise of human self interest, but instead of private property their solution is for one all powerful government to own everything
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by klarstrup on Friday March 26, 2021 @05:42AM (#26590263)
glance over a stirner summary i beg you
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by eevilspock on Friday March 26, 2021 @01:01PM (#26594388)
you mean Max Stirner?
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by throwinreturn on Friday March 26, 2021 @06:27AM (#26590473)
TIL: Kropotkin was not a communist. Nestor Makhno, Errico Malatesta, Jose Durruti? Not communists either. Who'd have thought?
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by kaba0 on Friday March 26, 2021 @04:04AM (#26589765)
Communism (as an end-goal) requires no governments. You are thinking of socialism.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by louloulou on Thursday March 25, 2021 @09:02PM (#26587722)
If only there was some way to allocate resources based on their value to the user, like with prices or something.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by eevilspock on Thursday March 25, 2021 @09:46PM (#26587961)
That would be great if everyone were truly on a level playing field.

You could make that so in this shared computing scenario, but our broader world is systemically rigged in favor of some people and against others. Capitalism depends on the un-levelness of the playing field for cheap labor.

i.e. while it can be useful if prices are attached to commodities (with caveats around externalities etc), it is not a good thing that prices are attached to humans, making some people's being and work less valued than others.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by twistedpair on Thursday March 25, 2021 @05:49PM (#26585874)
I worked at a large company during a migration from Lotus to Outlook. We were told we'd get our current Lost email storage + 100MiB as a new email quota limit under Outlook.

I made a bunch of 100MiB files of `/dev/random` noise (so they don't compress, compressed size was part of the quota) and emailed them to myself before the migration, to get a few GiB of quota buffer.

My co-workers were constantly having to delete old emails in Outlook to stay under quota, but not me. I'd just delete one of my jumbo attachment emails, as needed. ;)

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by ABeeSea on Thursday March 25, 2021 @06:17PM (#26586261)
Email quotas aren’t just a cost thing. It forces deletion of files/communications that aren’t relevant anymore. The last thing the legal department wants is some executive’s laptop with 10 years of undeleted email to make it’s way to discovery.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by pydave on Thursday March 25, 2021 @08:44PM (#26587592)
Unfortunately, those goals are rarely communicated and accepted by the people they're imposed on.

My first full-time job had an unexplained email expiry policy. After being frustrated several times at losing some explanation on how/why, I started forwarding all my emails to gmail. In retrospect, that's probably a worse result to whoever imposed the expiration.

Fortunately, these days people are better about consolidating knowledge on wikis or some kind of shared docs instead of only email.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by o-__-o on Thursday March 25, 2021 @09:26PM (#26587857)
It’s a hush hush kind of thing. You advertise it’s to avoid discovery and you are openly admiting to liability should someone find out while trying to pull your execs email during discovery.

The excuse of resource contention provides plausible deniability

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by disgruntledphd2 on Friday March 26, 2021 @05:00AM (#26590048)
Yeah, this is really common. Normally there'll be one unrecorded/easily deleted means of communication, and people use that for discussing things that potentially could expose the company to legal liability.

But nobody ever talks about it (except on said un-recorded meetings. That reminds me, I should explain this to our junior today, so that he knows for the future).

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by anitil on Sunday March 28, 2021 @11:40PM (#26617475)
I just spent 20 minutes trying to find an article by Bryne Hobart vaguely in this area [0], but for personal messaging. The idea being if you control the storage (or deletion) you can avoid casual or speculative regulatory interest in your chat logs.

(apologies it's on medium, I couldn't find it anywhere else)

[0] https://byrnehobart.medium.com/the-stealth-regulatory-arbitr...

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by wp381640 on Thursday March 25, 2021 @09:35PM (#26587912)
Lotus to Exchange migrations were all likely in the pre-Sarbanes Oxley and other retention regular era of email retention requirements

iirc at the time the only industries that required retention were health, legal and government

With SOX (PCI, FDIC, et al) retention laws we had another explosion of work rolling out all the compliance features of Exchange

Those were crazy times getting everybody either migrated with email or onto corporate email - there's a similar explosion of work right now with migration to M365

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by anonu on Thursday March 25, 2021 @11:35PM (#26588508)
I was using lotus at one of the largest banks in 2015... So no. Not pre sox.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by wp381640 on Friday March 26, 2021 @09:29AM (#26591884)
JP Morgan? They’re infamous for bad internal IT
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by easton on Thursday March 25, 2021 @06:46PM (#26586583)
Then why not just tell Exchange to delete any emails older than 5 years (or whatever your lawyers tell you to put)?
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by phaer on Thursday March 25, 2021 @07:09PM (#26586806)
I knew a place where Exchange was configured to delete all mails after 6 months. Soon after I discovered that people started to form circles in which they would forward older mails from internal mailing lists to each other to retain them longer than that.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by o-__-o on Thursday March 25, 2021 @09:30PM (#26587873)
Fannie Mae did this. When you have targets on your back you minimize the collateral damage from possible blowback.

Imagine getting sued and having the entire paper trail in your email going back 3+ years. I expire all email after 1 year.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by shard on Thursday March 25, 2021 @07:00PM (#26586721)
A previous company I worked for had a one month retention window in the email server. People just ended up storing email in their local machine's Outlook folder so they can refer to old emails.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by ianmcgowan on Friday March 26, 2021 @04:18AM (#26589837)
Or for the more technical folk with access to a linux server, setup postfix/dovecot, connect outlook to it and arrange for archived emails to go to the IMAP server.

The IT people get smart about looking for OST or PST files, but let's see them catch that :-)

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by realaether on Sunday March 28, 2021 @12:38AM (#26607985)
Any pointers on getting started with the postfix/dovecot method?
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by ianmcgowan on Friday April 02, 2021 @01:06PM (#26673371)
If you have a Linux box (or a VM), install and configure it to route mail and provide IMAP support. Digital Ocean has the best tutorials for this:

https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-set-...

Then configure a new mail account in Outlook and connect to the IMAP server. It's optional, but convenient for replies, to configure the account to send via postfix if you have an internal SMTP server to connect to.

I gave up on email folders years ago, so at the end of the month would just create two new folders in the archive account (YYYYMM and YYYYMM_Sent) and drag all the mail from the Exchange account into the IMAP folders. Et voila! You now have your own local email archive.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by chubs on Thursday March 25, 2021 @07:27PM (#26586960)
I imagine it looks better at discovery time to say 'oh sorry we lost these emails because we ran out of disk space' rather than 'we deleted them because we didn't want you to read them'.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by not2b on Thursday March 25, 2021 @07:57PM (#26587231)
No, companies need to be able to point to an official retention policy that says in writing that emails older then x months or years get deleted. Most do (including my employer), and it's because of legal discovery. But it feels like we're lobotomizing ourselves, as often the reason some odd thing was done was based on a long-deleted email discussion.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by bluedino on Thursday March 25, 2021 @08:18PM (#26587396)
And the right way to do it is with an archiving service/appliance
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by dahdum on Thursday March 25, 2021 @08:33PM (#26587513)
Archiving is likely solving the wrong problem, for legal reasons they don’t want those old emails hanging around.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by MereInterest on Thursday March 25, 2021 @10:19PM (#26588151)
Sounds like the retention policy is also solving the wrong problem. If for legal reasons you want to destroy any potential evidence, maybe it's a good idea to stop doing illegal actions.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by disgruntledphd2 on Friday March 26, 2021 @05:05AM (#26590078)
It's not necessarily illegal actions, just those that would look bad in discovery. Lawyers (as always) tend to err on the side of caution.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by anitil on Sunday March 28, 2021 @11:44PM (#26617507)
I remember Matt Levine talking about how regulators would often find emails along the line of "Let's sell this crap to those idiots" and use that as leverage to force settlements rather than showing actual violation of regulations.

The reason being that it's hard to show intent to defraud, and much easier to threaten bad press.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by not2b on Friday March 26, 2021 @11:47AM (#26593472)
Thanks to patents, everyone in technology is doing "illegal actions" all the time, since you can't do anything without infringing hundreds of patents. And if you can find an email somewhere indicating that someone knows that a competitor has feature X, or knows about the existence of a patent, viola, evidence of knowing infringement! Triple damages under US law.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by twistedpair on Thursday March 25, 2021 @08:26PM (#26587462)
That's why I did it. I'd always be trying to find an email from the prior year, that held a fix I needed to use again, but it had been deleted to stay in quota. Old email can be helpful.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by bluedino on Thursday March 25, 2021 @08:17PM (#26587391)
Also prevents users from using email as a filing cabinet or shared drive.

Email hosts love 50/100gb/unlimited mailboxes because nobody wants to migrate a bunch of giant mailboxes

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by Mauricebranagh on Friday March 26, 2021 @12:19PM (#26593888)
I am sure "legal" might want it but is it not better for society in general if they where discoverable.

A bit like when investigating police/government misconduct and a lot of files turn out to have been destroyed - but of course our data gets kept forever

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by mgfist on Thursday March 25, 2021 @08:59PM (#26587701)
Sane companies just have retention policies instead of doing some obtuse hack like this.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by tinus_hn on Thursday March 25, 2021 @04:37PM (#26585073)
Same thing happens with floating licenses, if they are too scarce, people open the program first thing in the morning ‘just in case’ and keep a license reserved all day.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by dasudasu on Thursday March 25, 2021 @07:17PM (#26586869)
The real game starts when people run infinite while/for loops that try to check out one as soon as it's available. Or run useless operations within the licensed software just so that that the license doesn't expire and return to the pool. I'm guilty of both, sadly. In an academic environment, additional resources aren't going to fall from the sky.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by Cullinet on Thursday March 25, 2021 @08:48PM (#26587621)
ouch I can't stop thinking now about how much cost gets imposed on the economy by habits like this established in higher education - I built my original business with very few formally qualified people who included a large proportion of the most experienced and professionally qualified individuals including several with multinational boardroom careers in F500s. we didn't have the culture to tolerate games like holding up a floating licence (of which licence a lot of critical software used) and we weren't the generation raised with computers by a few distant, but hearing this both makes perfect sense that it might be prevalent and simultaneously is thoroughly unnerving me about how strongly I might react on encountering the same if my present venture gets going.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by eb0la on Friday March 26, 2021 @04:43AM (#26589963)
I guess that's the reason Qlik (a business intelligence software provider) started using licensing by the minute - yes, like a phone call.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by the-rc on Thursday March 25, 2021 @05:33PM (#26585690)
At the opposite end, I heard a story of actually full storage from the beginning of the century, when I worked at a "large medical and research institution in the Midwest". They had expensive SMB shares (NetApp?) that kept getting full all the time. So they did the sane thing in the era of Napster: they started deleting MP3 files, with or without prior warning. Pretty soon, they got an angry call that music could not be played in the operating room. Oops. Surgeons, as you can guess, were treated like royalty and didn't appreciate seeing their routines disrupted.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by tapland on Thursday March 25, 2021 @05:43PM (#26585811)
D: I like getting to listen to something in the MRI though.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by ChuckMcM on Thursday March 25, 2021 @06:47PM (#26586598)
Okay, that is hilarious.

I use some scripts that monitor disk space, and monitor disk usages by "subsystem" (logs, mail, services, etc) using Nagios. And as DevOps Borat says, "Disk not full unless Nagios say 'Disk is full'" :_) Although long before it is full it starts warning me.

It doesn't go off very much, but it did when I had a bunch of attacks on my web server that started core dumping and that filled up disk reasonably quickly.

Back in the day we actually put different things in different partitions so that we could partition failures but that seems out of favor with a lot of the distros these days.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by Cullinet on Thursday March 25, 2021 @09:07PM (#26587740)
I thought it was standard to never write logs to the same machine and to worm for that matter
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by bane on Thursday March 25, 2021 @05:16PM (#26585489)
This is a surprisingly common hoarding behavior among humans using scarce resources. In technology you see it everywhere, virtualization infrastructure, disk storage, etc.

This is actually kind of clever. How the tribal knowledge for how to "reserve space" was developed and disseminated would be pretty interesting to study.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by jachee on Thursday March 25, 2021 @06:21PM (#26586315)
In Pittsburgh, it's evolved into the parking chair.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parking_chair

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by wongarsu on Thursday March 25, 2021 @07:20PM (#26586899)
Similarly Germans are infamous for reserving pool chairs by placing a towel on them long before they actually want to use them
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by dsego on Friday March 26, 2021 @04:41AM (#26589955)
I've seen this in my country as well, thought it was a balkan thing.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by tomrod on Thursday March 25, 2021 @04:57PM (#26585270)
This is very common in F500 companies. It's also a symptom of dysfunction.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by arkh on Friday March 26, 2021 @04:58AM (#26590036)
At school we had a 800Mb quota for each class (around 90 people). Usually the first year everyone discovered the space problem when trying to get everything done for your first project. When you cannot compile code or generate pdf because there's no space left the witch hunt starts: there's always some people with left-over files from .pdf to .tex conversions.

To help some students had put in place a crawler making statistics about who was using the space for all classes. And usually once bitten you made your own space requisition script which would take any byte left when available until it hit some reasonable size.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by Out_of_Characte on Friday March 26, 2021 @08:37AM (#26591337)
That's dire, ~8Mb per person. Its an interesting problem though, When the resource is not scarce, allocating 800Mb per class is the correct way to do things. someone who needs 9, 12 or 30Mb would be able to complete the allocation. But as soon as resource contention happens, students with the biggest allocation would need to relinquish alot of data. 800Mb is nothing over a modern connection nowadays but playing this game with petabytes would be a nightmare.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by kmonsen on Thursday March 25, 2021 @11:46PM (#26588554)
I remember in Android one year the focus was on slimming down the memory usage. Of course we found an app that shall not be named the allocated a chunk of memory on startup just in case it was going to be needed later.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by zerd on Sunday March 28, 2021 @02:22AM (#26608422)
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by gowld on Thursday March 25, 2021 @04:24PM (#26584918)
You had a community-driven quota system.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by manifoldgeo on Thursday March 25, 2021 @04:33PM (#26585030)
Sounds like they had a tragedy of the commons, too haha
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by Dylan16807 on Thursday March 25, 2021 @05:00PM (#26585321)
Partly that, partly the opposite.

It's basically reserving part of the disk for very important things only, which scares off less important uses. Like making the commons seem more polluted than it actually is to get some action taken.

If those files weren't there, the space would probably fill up, but now without any emergency relief valves.

It would be better if these files were a smaller fraction of space and had more oversight... but that's just a quota system. This is something halfway in between real quotas and full-on tragedy of the commons.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by agumonkey on Thursday March 25, 2021 @05:27PM (#26585616)
is there a model to solve these ?
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by chihuahua on Thursday March 25, 2021 @07:12PM (#26586827)
I am far from an expert on game theory, but it seems that the cause of the tragedy of the commons is that people can use the shared resource for free. If there was a price to be paid, and the price was dynamically adjusted depending on conditions, then the overuse could be avoided.

Similarly for file storage and "reserving" it by creating huge but useless files. If everyone was charged a fee per gigabyte per day, then people would be less likely to create those placeholder files. You probably have to be careful about how you measure, otherwise you'll get automated processes that delete the placeholder files at 11:59pm and create them at 12:01am.

Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by agumonkey on Thursday March 25, 2021 @07:53PM (#26587188)
I was wondering if not all of human society is game theory through time/space taxes and prices.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by chihuahua on Thursday March 25, 2021 @09:14PM (#26587788)
That is how economists view the world.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by agumonkey on Thursday March 25, 2021 @11:42PM (#26588537)
I was more on a sociological/existential plane but I take that information too. I wish I'd read this kind of economic books rather than supply/demand or finance
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by phkahler on Thursday March 25, 2021 @10:08PM (#26588104)
This happens at some restaurants - we'll save a table while you get the food. Half the place is people not eating be cause it's so busy.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by kaminar on Thursday March 25, 2021 @07:54PM (#26587201)
Create empty disk partition not possible? Seems easier to manage, no?
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by herewulf on Friday March 26, 2021 @02:07AM (#26589208)
I always leave some unallocated space in LVM in my machines. However, in a cloud environment it's probably easier or only possible to delete that 8 GB file.
Re:All my servers have an 8 GB empty file on disk by splithalf on Friday March 26, 2021 @10:33AM (#26592617)
This still occurs.